Who says it can't hurt?

[Loki]

A bad news story...

A KEW couple who replaced their daughter's epilepsy medication with alternative therapy may face criminal charges.

Coroner Phil Byrne yesterday found a fundamental breach of duty of care by the parents contributed to Isabella Denley's death in October 2002.
The 13-month-old girl died after she was taken off the anti-convulsant medication prescribed to her by Royal Children's Hospital epilepsy specialists.

Her parents, Helena and Warren, instead sought the advice of a kinesiologist, an osteopath and even a psychic who told the couple Isabella was reliving past-life traumas.

For the last two weeks of her life, Isabella was given only a homeopathic mixture for her seizures.
Gee ... a homeopathic treatment for 'past-life traumas' - I guess homeopathy is just advancing in leaps and bounds.

Mr Byrne said he had asked the Office of Public Prosecutions to consider a case against the Denleys.

Id' like to see them considering charges against the psychic.

Full story is here (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8174448%255E2862,00.html) and here (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/15/1071336887473.html)

[Darat]

Yet another one.... :(


Mr Byrne said it beggared belief why two apparently loving parents would go against the opinions of medical experts.

Mr Byrne said he rejected claims made by the couple that doctors had not informed them of the risks involved in stopping the medication.

"I accept they were advised of the dangers (by doctors). The fact is they were unreceptive," he said.


"beggared belief"? Unfortunately not. I was reminded of an exchange of posts I had here with a poster called, bratok.

Originally by bratok
...snip...

On the other hand I heard of studies here in Russia, claiming the use of "informational vibrational therapy" - i.e. when we are ill, out cells are vibrating "wrong", so the scientists record the "right" vibration into water and we drink this water, so transfering the "right" vibrations to our cells ...

So here's a suggestion - let's wait with our discussion for some 10 years and then we'll see, weather it's total BS or not.

...snip...


to which I replied


What wait yet another ten years? :(

You do realise that homeopathy was "discovered" in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann? That's over 200 years ago, and the American Institute of Homeopathy was founded in 1844, over 150 years ago.

And you are still saying we should 'wait and see'? :D


So unfortunately, for me, it does not 'beggar belief' :(



(Quotes from http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870195359#post1870195359)

[Ove]

On the other hand I heard of studies here in Russia, claiming the use of "informational vibrational therapy" - i.e. when we are ill, out cells are vibrating "wrong", so the scientists record the "right" vibration into water and we drink this water, so transfering the "right" vibrations to our cells ...

I saw a wonderfull programme with Randi himself where he made a complete fool out of one of those "vibrating water" doctors. He simply asked him to "charge" two bottles out of ten and then find them afterwards using his dowsing rods. Off course he failed miserably and had all possible explanations about the bottles "charging each other".:D

But to the point, i really think those parents should be prosecuted, NOT becaude they themselves need more punishment, they've had plenty loosing their daughter but to serve as a warning to other parents not to repeat this kind of stupidity. I really can't think of any extenuating circumstances, it is plain stupid.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Darat
I was reminded of an exchange of posts I had here with a poster called, bratok....I still think it's better than evens that Bratok is Kumar.

Rolfe.

[MRC_Hans]

Except that bratok seems to write English ;).

Hans

[Rolfe]

Well, better than Kumar, anyway. But then Kumar's English varies according to which version of "Kumar Vijay" he's being at that precise moment. :D

And it was just so odd that in the hiatus between Kumar's two bouts of posting about his usual homoeopathic predilections, we had a spell of Bratok coming up with almost exactly the same arguments.

But no, you're probably right, Kumar is usually transparent when he adopts a different handle, and pretending to be Russian and improving his English is probably taking it a bit far.

Rolfe.
(Off to the homoeopathy forums to see how you're getting on with him there - laugh a minute!)

[Trebuchet]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A KEW couple who replaced their daughter's epilepsy medication with alternative therapy may face criminal charges.

Coroner Phil Byrne yesterday found a fundamental breach of duty of care by the parents contributed to Isabella Denley's death in October 2002.
The 13-month-old girl died after she was taken off the anti-convulsant medication prescribed to her by Royal Children's Hospital epilepsy specialists.

Her parents, Helena and Warren, instead sought the advice of a kinesiologist, an osteopath and even a psychic who told the couple Isabella was reliving past-life traumas.

For the last two weeks of her life, Isabella was given only a homeopathic mixture for her seizures.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Throw the book at the morons, inluding the psychic. Make an example of them. This is child abuse of the worst sort.

[Suezoled]

Sure, it's a right to have a child, but an option to take responsibility. :(

[Hazelip]

Originally posted by Ove
But to the point, i really think those parents should be prosecuted, NOT becaude they themselves need more punishment, they've had plenty loosing their daughter but to serve as a warning to other parents not to repeat this kind of stupidity. I really can't think of any extenuating circumstances, it is plain stupid. They can never be punished enough for killing their child. They should be charged, and they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

It is precisely this sympathy-laden response that permits people to force this sort of abuse upon their children and hide behind their asinine "beliefs."

They killed their child.

[SquishyDave]

It's harsh to throw the book at these "parents", but I think it needs doing, for a couple reasons, for one it will make this case very high profile if they are punished to the full extent of the law, so if faced with a similar choice other parents might then think, "Hang on, according that case I heard about, I am gambling my childs life here." and then the second reason kicks in "Not only that, I just realised if my child does die or even gets sicker, I can be charged with criminal neglect and go to jail"

I am getting really sick and tired of people dying because of this sh*t, and I haven't been personally affected by this junk, I can't imagine how it is for people who have lost loved ones so needlessly.

:mad:

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Hazelip
They killed their child.
Precisely.

If someone could gather up all these news reports of people dying as a result of homeopathy and alternative medicine, put all the stories in a nice collection on the internet, maybe it might get through to the right people before they make the same mistake as these parents cited above...

[geni]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Precisely.

If someone could gather up all these news reports of people dying as a result of homeopathy and alternative medicine, put all the stories in a nice collection on the internet, maybe it might get through to the right people before they make the same mistake as these parents cited above...

The problem is that you have to able to prove that real medcine would have saved them. The other problem is that you will find that homeopaths spend most of their time dealing either with non serious conditions or things that there is no cure for.

[Eos of the Eons]

Exactly, in this case the real medicine would have prevented death. I know plenty of epileptics that take meds...even a couple who were helped by surgery.

Start making examples of these people!! Especially the one handing out homeopathic medicine that doesn't work. Send a message to those snake oil peddlers.


We never hear about people being jailed for childrens' deaths in these cases...it's about time we saw this, front and center and in the news.

How come we never see these cases of murder on the news? I didn't see it until I came here. The kid died. My news stations don't show anything on it.



She WAS my daughter's age.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,308943,00.jpg

Mr Byrne said the family did not accept Dr Mackay's diagnosis. "I have endeavoured to understand why apparent loving parents could take the decision they did in the face of blunt warnings as to the potential consequences," he said.

There are hundreds of "mothering sites" on the net that tell parents that the doctors don't know what they are talking about. They will be told their child is misdiagnosed. They will tell them the epilepsy meds will cause more harm than good.

The parents believe them. I can give you a dozen links to moms that are being told this right now. This will happen again and againg.

Mr and Mrs Denley said alternative health professionals relieved some of Isabella's side-effects. Mrs Szewczuk said she saw the difference in Isabella after she was given homoeopathic medicines. "She was walking well, co-ordinated and happy, (she was) the Isabella we knew," she said in her statement.


See, they still figure the homeopathy was BETTER for the kid than the meds. So she died, she would have anyways...so this was more 'humane'.

Rubbish!

I'm sick of hearing that argument over and over again.


The therapy I would try first is homeopathy. We had the most success with that. You need to go to a highly experienced homeopath WHO HAS CURED SEIZURES BEFORE (ASK!) and follow her/his exact instructions. I would also look seriously at diet especially if you are concerned about blood sugar. The biggest factor for Eli was always sugars. Keeping him on a hypoglycemic diet (no sweeteners or concentrated fruits, plenty of protein and good fats, no simple carbs...) helped him SO much for so long. We still have him on that diet somewhat, though he's less sensitive now. Other therapies may be worth trying too. Chiropractic and nutrition are big ones.


My son had very intense seizures.....all different kinds. The doctors wanted to medicate, we chose not to & pursued natural rememdies. Eventually, we found that food caused his seizures. He has been seizure-free & healthy for 2 1/2 years.

I know how scary this must be, we just went through a roller coaster of a year w/Zoe. She had some really bad side effects w/the anti-seizure meds.

I don't have any particular advice, just ask as many questions as you can come up with. The epilepsy foundation's forums might be useful: http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/Forums/index.cfm Get second opinions.

In any case, we learned that the docs really don't know how the brain works, and they don't know how the meds work. It is all trial and error, educated guesses. We were extremely frustrated w/Zoe's treatment.
.

See this crap?




I'm sure it must be very scarry. A gal here has a 2 month old little boy who started having seizures after he was about 20 hours old and they still have no idea why.

I would almost think at this stage they wouldn't give anti-seizure meds until they run some tests.

Are you sure they are seizures..I mean has he been "diagnosed" with them...not that that really matters. With my sister they did this test where she had to stay awake for 36 hours straight and then they did an MRI. it turned out her petit mal seizures were so minor that they weren't concerned.

An off chance thing might be this...don't think I'm looney either.... have you ever taken your ds to a chiropractor. We go for preventative maintenance. It only makes sense that if the spine is the track for the nervous system that if it is out of alignment it can cause problems....just an idea....
hy.

The jerks selling alternatives always have their stories about bad doctors and bad medicine. They encourage parents to do alternatives.



I hope this link works (http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?threadid=85298&highlight=epilepsy+side+effects)


Moms get sucked in by these people who put up their forums to sell their mags/books/alternatives.

More kids are going to die.
My son had very intense seizures.....all different kinds. The doctors wanted to medicate, we chose not to & pursued natural rememdies. Eventually, we found that food caused his seizures. He has been seizure-free & healthy for 2 1/2 years.