"She's Got a Vision"

[Rodney]

"Israel's Richest Woman [Shari Arison] Says She Can See the Future . . . In her new book published this summer in Israel, the 51-year-old Miami native says she felt the Indonesian tsunami sweeping over the land two months before it happened and sensed Hurricane Katrina pummeling New Orleans. In an interview, Arison says she also 'saw the writing on the wall' before the global economic crash . . . Armed with the insight gained through work with Florida-based psychiatrist Brian Weiss, a proponent of regression therapy and the exploration of (take your pick) deep memories or past lives, she says she is ready to go public with her visions and bring together her spiritual and business goals." See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/30/AR2009083002473.html?hpid=artslot

[Brainache]

Is she going to let somebody know about these future huge natural disasters next time? Seems a bit selfish to wait a few years after the events to publish her book saying how she knew about these things before they happened.

You don't think she could be telling fibs, do you?

ETA: OK I read the story. She seems to have her heart in the right place, unfortunately for her, her head is stuck some place it shouldn't be.

[blue sock monkey]

Is she going to let somebody know about these future huge natural disasters next time? Seems a bit selfish to wait a few years after the events to publish her book saying how she knew about these things before they happened.

You don't think she could be telling fibs, do you?

You mean, exploit the pain and suffering of thousands of people for personal gain in a blatant fraud? Perish the thought.

[Brainache]

You mean, exploit the pain and suffering of thousands of people for personal gain in a blatant fraud? Perish the thought.

Well she does run a chain of Hotels. I've never stayed at one of them, but you may be right...

[Foolmewunz]

This is the Washington Post of Watergate, fame? How the mighty have fallen.

Really - they ought to be ashamed of this.....

Even so, her peacemaking intentions might be working some magic already.

After all, President Obama has peace envoys back in the region. There has not been a suicide bombing in a year and a half. Bank Hapoalim turned a first-quarter profit.

And according to her book, the visions are getting nicer.

Okay, I know it's in the Arts & Living section (sort of the Forum Community of the Post, I guess), but there's nothing in the above that says it's her opinion - more like a conclusion that the journalist reached.

Pretty off-putting. I've written them.

[patchbunny]

Well she does run a chain of Hotels. I've never stayed at one of them, but you may be right...

"I picture clean towels and a well-made bed in your future..."

[Czarcasm]

"Israel's Richest Woman [Shari Arison] Says She Can See the Future . . . In her new book published this summer in Israel, the 51-year-old Miami native says she felt the Indonesian tsunami sweeping over the land two months before it happened and sensed Hurricane Katrina pummeling New Orleans. In an interview, Arison says she also 'saw the writing on the wall' before the global economic crash . . . Armed with the insight gained through work with Florida-based psychiatrist Brian Weiss, a proponent of regression therapy and the exploration of (take your pick) deep memories or past lives, she says she is ready to go public with her visions and bring together her spiritual and business goals." See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/30/AR2009083002473.html?hpid=artslotAgents get paid big bucks to throw this glurge all over the web.
Are you a PR flack, or a dupe?

[SphereGuy]

Agents get paid big bucks to throw this glurge all over the web.
Are you a PR flack, or a dupe?

Are you saying that on a site where paranormal claims are discussed we shouldn't discuss paranormal claims? Or just this paranormal claim?

I know the poor and downtrodden are susceptable to woo because they want their lives to have a greator or higher meaning, but do you think the rich are susceptable to woo because they can simply afford it? This really got me thinking about the types of woo rich people fall for compared to the types of woo poor people fall for.

[souper genyus]

"Israel's Richest Woman [Shari Arison] Says She Can See the Future . . . In her new book published this summer in Israel, the 51-year-old Miami native says she felt the Indonesian tsunami sweeping over the land two months before it happened and sensed Hurricane Katrina pummeling New Orleans.

Then I hold Shari Arison personally responsible for the deaths of both the tsunami and Katrina. Shall we hold a trial or is she going to admit she's completely full of crap?

[MysteryMammal]

Sounds more like she can see the past... Why is it that psychics claim to have predicted global tragedies, but they never saw fit to mention these premonitions until after the fact?

Truth be told, I have psychic abilities. I see another cup of coffee in my future...

[fls]

"Israel's Richest Woman [Shari Arison] Says She Can See the Future . . . In her new book published this summer in Israel, the 51-year-old Miami native says she felt the Indonesian tsunami sweeping over the land two months before it happened and sensed Hurricane Katrina pummeling New Orleans. In an interview, Arison says she also 'saw the writing on the wall' before the global economic crash . . . Armed with the insight gained through work with Florida-based psychiatrist Brian Weiss, a proponent of regression therapy and the exploration of (take your pick) deep memories or past lives, she says she is ready to go public with her visions and bring together her spiritual and business goals." See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/30/AR2009083002473.html?hpid=artslot

Can you distinguish this woman from someone like Sylvia Browne? If so, on what basis do you do so (a priori)?

Linda

[Rodney]

Can you distinguish this woman from someone like Sylvia Browne? If so, on what basis do you do so (a priori)?

Linda
She's a lot richer than Sylvia, for one thing. ;) It would be interesting to know if she credits any of her wealth to intuition; i.e., making a business decision based on what she felt was going to happen, rather than logical analysis.

[arthwollipot]

She's a lot richer than Sylvia, for one thing.:eye-poppi

From what I understand, that would be an awfully large amount of money.

[Foolmewunz]

:eye-poppi

From what I understand, that would be an awfully large amount of money.

Sylvia probably dreams of having as much as Arison. She's a billionaire, and I doubt that Sylvia sells that many books. Arison owns like 40% of a major bank in Israel, plus Carnival Cruise Lines and all sorts of other goodies. She's not "the idle rich", she's "filthy stinking rich".

[fls]

She's a lot richer than Sylvia, for one thing. ;) It would be interesting to know if she credits any of her wealth to intuition; i.e., making a business decision based on what she felt was going to happen, rather than logical analysis.

I'm trying to understand why you started this thread.

However, this raises a good point. As I mentioned in the Connie Sonne and the Pavel threads (as well as thread on the discussion I had with Suitbert Ertel), is looking at people who claim to have magical powers really the right way to go about finding people who have magical powers, since that group seems to be mostly populated by people who misinterpret bias and chance as an effect? Perhaps we should be looking at a different set of people - those who are successful business-people, for example.

Linda

[steve s]

Hindsight is indeed 20/20.

Then I hold Shari Arison personally responsible for the deaths of both the tsunami and Katrina. Shall we hold a trial or is she going to admit she's completely full of crap?

Agreed. Penn Gillette said that anyone who claims to be psychic should be jailed for failing to warn us of the attacks on 9/11.

Steve S.

[Rodney]

Agreed. Penn Gillette said that anyone who claims to be psychic should be jailed for failing to warn us of the attacks on 9/11.
The only way that would make sense is if a psychic had, not just a premonition, but detailed knowledge of exactly what was going to happen, including the names of the hijackers. For example, suppose a psychic woke up on 9/11 with such a strong feeling that planes were going to be hijacked from Boston's Logan Airport that morning that s/he called the Airport to warn them of what was about to happen. Would the authorities have acted on that warning? If so, what would they have done?

Similarly, with regard to the Indian Ocean Tsunami, what would, for example, Phuket Thailand authorities have done if a psychic had telephoned them on December 26, 2004 and told them to immediately evacuate the beach area? Do you think that warning would have been acted on?

With respect to Hurricane Katrina, that's a somewhat different situation, in that virtually everyone know 24-48 hours before it hit New Orleans that there was going to be major damage. However, the real question was: Would the levees hold? Suppose a psychic had telephoned the Federal Emergency Management Agency to tell them that the levees would fail -- would that have saved lives?

[Foolmewunz]

Rodney,
I think all the examples you give speak more to the credibility of psychics than to their performance of their duty to humanity.

If this woman, for instance, is recognized as a psychic by the legions of true believers... Or if Sylvia Browne has a vast following who dote on her every word....

While they might not get FEMA to listen to them, don't they at least owe it to the people who "have faith" to warn them of these things? Sylvia never did a reading for someone from New Orleans? Why aren't they at least TRYING to warn people.

All I see is psychics making claims after the fact. The few who've actually put something in writing, when checked out, turn out to have written something like, "I foresee a natural disaster with much loss of life around the end of the year." When the Tsunami hit, I went a-googling and could not find one psychic prediction for that year with the words "tidal wave" or "tsunami" in it.

If I was suddenly gifted with the actual power to accurately predict disasters, accidents, medical conditions, whatnot.... I'd be spending my entire life trying to warn people off.

[souper genyus]

The only way that would make sense is if a psychic had, not just a premonition, but detailed knowledge of exactly what was going to happen, including the names of the hijackers. For example, suppose a psychic woke up on 9/11 with such a strong feeling that planes were going to be hijacked from Boston's Logan Airport that morning that s/he called the Airport to warn them of what was about to happen. Would the authorities have acted on that warning? If so, what would they have done?
If a self proclaimed psychic has a "premonition" that doesn't contain specific information, then it's not really a premonition after all, is it? If there is no specific information in the premonition, then any number of scenarios could be interpreted as fulfilling the prophecy, in which case it really isn't a prophecy at all.

Similarly, with regard to the Indian Ocean Tsunami, what would, for example, Phuket Thailand authorities have done if a psychic had telephoned them on December 26, 2004 and told them to immediately evacuate the beach area? Do you think that warning would have been acted on?

With respect to Hurricane Katrina, that's a somewhat different situation, in that virtually everyone know 24-48 hours before it hit New Orleans that there was going to be major damage. However, the real question was: Would the levees hold? Suppose a psychic had telephoned the Federal Emergency Management Agency to tell them that the levees would fail -- would that have saved lives?

If she really believes she has psychic powers, she should get them confirmed in a controlled experiment. If her powers are validated, then people will take her seriously when she predicts a disaster. If she does have powers and refuses to get tested, she is still responsible for the deaths of those in Katrina and the tsunami.

[Czarcasm]

Are you saying that on a site where paranormal claims are discussed we shouldn't discuss paranormal claims? Or just this paranormal claim?No, I'm saying that if I wanted to subscribe to a paranormal news-clipping service, I'd do so. I'd like Rodney to do a bit more than play "parrot" when he posts this woo glurge, and maybe throw in a few of his own words-maybe even his own opinion on the matter.

[arthwollipot]

Sylvia probably dreams of having as much as Arison. She's a billionaire, and I doubt that Sylvia sells that many books. Arison owns like 40% of a major bank in Israel, plus Carnival Cruise Lines and all sorts of other goodies. She's not "the idle rich", she's "filthy stinking rich".So like I said, an awfully large amount of money.

[Doctor Evil]

Yeah? Well, I have double vision!! Take that.

On second thought, maybe I should have picked double her money instead.

[Rodney]

If a self proclaimed psychic has a "premonition" that doesn't contain specific information, then it's not really a premonition after all, is it? If there is no specific information in the premonition, then any number of scenarios could be interpreted as fulfilling the prophecy, in which case it really isn't a prophecy at all.
It depends what you mean by "specific information". Predicting that there will be a major earthquake somewhere in the world this month is clearly too general to be of any use, but how about if a city is specified? That would be quite specific, but again, what are the authorities in that city going to do about the prediction? Let's take this out of the realm of the paranormal and bring it into the realm of scientific earthquake prediction. Suppose that seismologists at Cal Tech conclude that there is a better than a 50-50 chance of a major earthquake occurring in Los Angeles this month and inform the authorities. Will the city be evacuated based on that information? If not, will certain high-risk buildings be closed or certain high-risk bridges and roads be closed? What, exactly, can the authorities do, without knowing exactly when the earthquake will occur?

If she really believes she has psychic powers, she should get them confirmed in a controlled experiment. If her powers are validated, then people will take her seriously when she predicts a disaster. If she does have powers and refuses to get tested, she is still responsible for the deaths of those in Katrina and the tsunami.
You're looking at this as a black and white "either she can predict exactly what will happen or she has no psychic powers" situation. That's illogical.

[Rodney]

No, I'm saying that if I wanted to subscribe to a paranormal news-clipping service, I'd do so. I'd like Rodney to do a bit more than play "parrot" when he posts this woo glurge, and maybe throw in a few of his own words-maybe even his own opinion on the matter.
An article appearing in the Washington Post is a little different than an article appearing in the Weekly World News, don't you think? The main reason I created the thread is that skeptics frequently assert that, if there were such a thing as intuition, the intuitive would be rich. Well, Ms. Arison is rich. Now, I concede that may be simply an accident of birth or being a good businesswoman, but she attributes at least some of her success to her psychic powers, and so I think that's a subject worth exploring.

[Psiload]

An article appearing in the Washington Post is a little different than an article appearing in the Weekly World News, don't you think? The main reason I created the thread is that skeptics frequently assert that, if there were such a thing as intuition, the intuitive would be rich. Well, Ms. Arison is rich. Now, I concede that may be simply an accident of birth or being a good businesswoman, but she attributes at least some of her success to her psychic powers, and so I think that's a subject worth exploring.

I wish I had suffered this sort of accident of birth...

Ted Arison
In 1997 he headed a consortium that purchased the controlling share in Bank Hapoalim for more than $1 billion -- the largest privatization deal in Israel's history.

In 1999 Arison's father died, and bequeathed her[Shari] 35 percent of his possessions. Her estimated assets are around US$3.2 billion.


She's got this in common with Sylvia Brown... her powers of premonition don't seem to work when it comes to her personal life...

Arison is the mother of four children. She has been married three times, most recently to businessman Ofer Glazer. In 2007 her husband, Ofer Glazer, was convicted and sentenced to six months in prison, for sexual harassment and indecent acts on two women.

Hmm... you'd a thunk she woulda saw that comin' :rolleyes:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130597

Hard Times: Shari Arison’s $100 Million Yacht Up for Sale

(IsraelNN.com) Shari Arison, the controlling shareholder in Bank HaPoalim and whose net worth declined by more than $1 billion last year, has put her “My Shanti” yacht up for sale. The asking price is $100 million.

Arison bought the custom-built vessel two years ago, replacing the mere 164-foot yacht called the Teddy, named after her late father who left her with an inheritance that made her the richest woman in Israel.

He made a fortune by starting the Carnival Cruise Lines, in which she has a large share and which is managed by her brother, who lives in Miami, Florida.

Her worth in Bank HaPoalim collapsed by two-thirds during the collapse of financial stocks around the world this past year, and she was forced to put up more collateral for loans that she took out in order to increase her stake in the bank.

So much for her psychic business powers.

[blue sock monkey]

I'm willing to go out on a limb here, and guess that her ability to pick winning lottery numbers is no better than average.

[souper genyus]

It depends what you mean by "specific information". Predicting that there will be a major earthquake somewhere in the world this month is clearly too general to be of any use, but how about if a city is specified? That would be quite specific, but again, what are the authorities in that city going to do about the prediction? Let's take this out of the realm of the paranormal and bring it into the realm of scientific earthquake prediction. Suppose that seismologists at Cal Tech conclude that there is a better than a 50-50 chance of a major earthquake occurring in Los Angeles this month and inform the authorities. Will the city be evacuated based on that information? If not, will certain high-risk buildings be closed or certain high-risk bridges and roads be closed? What, exactly, can the authorities do, without knowing exactly when the earthquake will occur?
Admittedly, this is a question I don't have an answer to. I don't know what would be done if we could predict natural disasters with some certainty. It seems that if they were positive that a disaster would occur, they would evacuate. But, you mentioned a 50-50 chance, so evacuation might cause more harm than good. It seems that some safety measures would need to be taken, though.


You're looking at this as a black and white "either she can predict exactly what will happen or she has no psychic powers" situation. That's illogical.

It is possible that she does have visions of the future that are too vague for her to even comprehend, but then that's completely useless and she shouldn't claim that she predicted things that she really didn't predict with any certainty.

[Cainkane1]

"Israel's Richest Woman [Shari Arison] Says She Can See the Future . . . In her new book published this summer in Israel, the 51-year-old Miami native says she felt the Indonesian tsunami sweeping over the land two months before it happened and sensed Hurricane Katrina pummeling New Orleans. In an interview, Arison says she also 'saw the writing on the wall' before the global economic crash . . . Armed with the insight gained through work with Florida-based psychiatrist Brian Weiss, a proponent of regression therapy and the exploration of (take your pick) deep memories or past lives, she says she is ready to go public with her visions and bring together her spiritual and business goals." See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/30/AR2009083002473.html?hpid=artslot
She may have panic disorder and is misinterpreting the symptoms. The feel of fright and panic one has when they suffer this disease is very similar to the feeling one gets when something like an automobile accident is about to happen. In her case she may think shes "seeing" the future. Panic disorder comes out of the clear blue sky and is a very frightening experience.

[Cainkane1]

I wish I had suffered this sort of accident of birth...



She's got this in common with Sylvia Brown... her powers of premonition don't seem to work when it comes to her personal life...



Hmm... you'd a thunk she woulda saw that comin' :rolleyes:



So much for her psychic business powers.
There was a woman here in Atlanta Ga named madam Bell who was into crystal ball scrying, tea leaf reading and palmistry. One day while going to her hotel after a psychics meeting she fell into the fountain and drowned.

I wonder why seeing the future never works on a personal level?

[Rodney]

There was a woman here in Atlanta Ga named madam Bell who was into crystal ball scrying, tea leaf reading and palmistry. One day while going to her hotel after a psychics meeting she fell into the fountain and drowned.
Are you sure that actually happened? I found only one on-line account, and it is prefaced by this statement: "We think this article, reproduced in its entirety, pretty much speaks for itself. We've since lost the correct notation, and have no idea where it came from." See http://jebzingo.tripod.com/psychics/youneversee.html