Evidence that the bible was written by god?

[JetLeg]

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

I think it is a silly request.

Let's assume that the bible would say something like "Do not travel faster than the speed of light". Or "Do not try to measure both the speed and the location of small particles".

Why would that be evidence that it would be written by god?

I would assume intelligent aliens. This is a far more plausible hypothesis.

1) We _know_ that life exists. We are life. So it is much more natural to assume that the bible was written by an intelligent life-form than by something we do not have a proof that it even exists.

What type of evidence would convince you that the bible was written by god, and not by aliens? Is there such a thing?

Perhaps something about the nature of the bing bang, that probably only the creator could know???

[Agatha]

I have seen people asking for evidence that the bible was inspired by god. I don't think I've seen people asking for evidence it was written by god.

If the bible contained information that only a creator would know, wouldn't we (by virtue of it being in a book which most of us have read) be aware of that knowledge? Your problem then is to show that the people/god/aliens who wrote the bible could not have known this in any other way, assuming that we are in a position to confirm (or refute) that information.

[Hokulele]

What type of evidence would convince you that the bible was written by god, and not by aliens?


An internally consistent, universally applicable moral code would be a good start.

[Undesired Walrus]

They claim the Bible is written by God. Thus, the onus is on them to prove it.

[JetLeg]

An internally consistent, universally applicable moral code would be a good start.

Huh?

Why does that lend more credibility to the god hypothesis over the alien hypothesis? (Or any other hypothesis, I do not wish to create a false dilemma).

[JetLeg]

They claim the Bible is written by God. Thus, the onus is on them to prove it.

I agree.

But this is not my point. My question is - what proof would suggest that the bible was written / inspired by god, and not the alien / time travellers / superheroes hypotheses.

[Hokulele]

Huh?

Why does that lend more credibility to the god hypothesis over the alien hypothesis? (Or any other hypothesis, I do not wish to create a false dilemma).


Because, as far as I can tell, there is no such thing. It would take a godly amount of knowledge and power to create one and make it stick.

If aliens attempted such a thing with human beings, they would have a serious fight on their hands.

[wollery]

Perhaps something about the nature of the bing bang, that probably only the creator could know???Or something about the nature of the ding dong.

[Hokulele]

Or something about the nature of the ding dong.


Yrreg threads, thataway. ------>

[CriticalSock]

An internally consistent, universally applicable moral code would be a good start.

That's it! A moral code which hasn't been superceded by ordinary, messy, human moral development would be a good sign. Characters which didn't talk about love but condone slavery; The deity being represented not giving his followers loyalty tests by getting them to attempt the murder of their only son. That kind of thing.

[blobru]

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

I think it is a silly request.

Let's assume that the bible would say something like "Do not travel faster than the speed of light". Or "Do not try to measure both the speed and the location of small particles".

Why would that be evidence that it would be written by god?

I would assume intelligent aliens. This is a far more plausible hypothesis. ...


If we assume intelligent aliens are like us except more technologically advanced, they wouldn't have the power of prophecy.

The bible contains several prophecies. Their truth would be evidence that something beyond alien technology, god perhaps, was at work. The most important is Matthew 24:34. Christ says:

Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things [events leading up to the second coming and the end of the world] have happened.

Christ was crucified around 33 AD. If this is divinely-inspired prophecy then, the second coming should have occurred no later than the latter half of the second century.

It didn't.

That's very strong evidence against the claim that the bible is inspired by God. (Of course, if the prophecy had been fulfilled, we wouldn't be having this discussion about the need for evidence, as there'd be no such thing as atheists; or non-Xtians, for that matter).

[CriticalSock]

Yeah, of course, my JW friends tell me that that prophecy actually applies to the generation who witnessed the events of 1914. Of course they're getting a bit thin on the ground as well now, so I think it has changed recently to be some nebulous definition of generation which has no obvious terminal date attached.

[Pure Argent]

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

I think it is a silly request.

Let's assume that the bible would say something like "Do not travel faster than the speed of light". Or "Do not try to measure both the speed and the location of small particles".

Why would that be evidence that it would be written by god?

I would assume intelligent aliens. This is a far more plausible hypothesis.

1) We _know_ that life exists. We are life. So it is much more natural to assume that the bible was written by an intelligent life-form than by something we do not have a proof that it even exists.

What type of evidence would convince you that the bible was written by god, and not by aliens? Is there such a thing?

Perhaps something about the nature of the bing bang, that probably only the creator could know???

Honestly? I don't know what would convince me. But I'm damn sure it would be something more than a simple "This book was inspired by the Big Sky Daddy" written on the jacket cover. But, since it's their claim, they have to prove it. It's the basis for their entire belief system.

[MRC_Hans]

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

I think it is a silly request.

Let's assume that the bible would say something like "Do not travel faster than the speed of light". Or "Do not try to measure both the speed and the location of small particles".

Why would that be evidence that it would be written by god?

I would assume intelligent aliens. This is a far more plausible hypothesis.

1) We _know_ that life exists. We are life. So it is much more natural to assume that the bible was written by an intelligent life-form than by something we do not have a proof that it even exists.

What type of evidence would convince you that the bible was written by god, and not by aliens? Is there such a thing?

Perhaps something about the nature of the bing bang, that probably only the creator could know???The last part of your question does not make sense. We can speculate what could be in a hypothetical bible to make it a more convincing work of God, but that is moot: The bible is as it is.

The question most atheists are asking is "How can you claim that this bible is written by God?".

Hans

[Ryan O'Dine]

If the book contained instructions on how to perform supernatural acts of creation which proved workable, then even if it was written by aliens, I'd consider them sufficiently god-like to merit the title.

Plus, I'd supernaturally create my own platypus army and take over the world.

[Simon39759]

I am not sure we can find any incontrovertible argument that it actually was writen by God himself, it is, after all, just about the less parsimonious, and hence the less likely, hypothesis I can think of.


Still, I would be satisfied if the theory of Godly writing was, at least, not obviously contradicted by the facts.
So, if the Bible did not have factual mistakes (rabbits chewing their cuds; climbing a mountain and seeing the whole world); unbelievable stories (global flood and millions of animals on a ship that could not be constructed; surviving for days in the belly of a whale/ giant fish...); abhorrent and obsolete moral (rape is ok if you pay your victim's father afterward; slavery is just groovy) and outright contradiction (no shellfish, but actually why not, Jesus' two family trees...).

[~enigma~]

bing bang,
Didn't he sing a duet with Bing Crosby?

[JetLeg]

The question most atheists are asking is "How can you claim that this bible is written by God?".

Hans

Right. And I am wondering what would a hypothetical answer be that makes the god hypothesis look better than other hypotheses.

[Elizabeth I]

An internally consistent, universally applicable moral code would be a good start.

...and verifiable records of enforcement of same.

[KingMerv00]

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

I think it is a silly request.

Let's assume that the bible would say something like "Do not travel faster than the speed of light". Or "Do not try to measure both the speed and the location of small particles".

Why would that be evidence that it would be written by god?

I would assume intelligent aliens. This is a far more plausible hypothesis.

1) We _know_ that life exists. We are life. So it is much more natural to assume that the bible was written by an intelligent life-form than by something we do not have a proof that it even exists.

What type of evidence would convince you that the bible was written by god, and not by aliens? Is there such a thing?

Perhaps something about the nature of the bing bang, that probably only the creator could know???

There is no piece of evidence that could prove beyond a reasonable doubt there is an all powerful creature within (or outside) the universe. The very nature of the question makes it impossible.

The best you could do is show that the Bible was inspired by an incredibly powerful being. Perhaps one so powerful the label "God" is close enough for government work.

[bookitty]

We _know_ that life exists. We are life. So it is much more natural to assume that the bible was written by an intelligent life-form people who thought they heard voices.

[JetLeg]

We _know_ that life exists. We are life. So it is much more natural to assume that the bible was written by an intelligent life-form people who thought they heard voices.

reread the post

[Ron_Tomkins]

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

I think it is a silly request.

Let's assume that the bible would say something like "Do not travel faster than the speed of light". Or "Do not try to measure both the speed and the location of small particles".

Why would that be evidence that it would be written by god?

I would assume intelligent aliens. This is a far more plausible hypothesis.

1) We _know_ that life exists. We are life. So it is much more natural to assume that the bible was written by an intelligent life-form than by something we do not have a proof that it even exists.

What type of evidence would convince you that the bible was written by god, and not by aliens? Is there such a thing?

Perhaps something about the nature of the bing bang, that probably only the creator could know???

I'm wondering if you've actually read Sagan's "The Varieties of Scientific Experience" (which I strongly recommend) because as matter of fact the example you've given is very similar to something he mentions in the book. Sagan comments that it would had made more sense to believe that the Bible was written by God if he had made some predictions about scientific discoveries that were many centuries ahead of time. The "Thou shall not travel faster than the speed of light" example is actually given in Sagan's book. Another good example would be if God had written some testimony on the surface of the moon, which we could not even dream of traveling to, until much later.

Of course, you are right in arguing that even if these things had happened, it would still not be a definite, inarguable proof that there is a God, since as it has been stated before: A superior, apparently indestructible, omnipotent intelligence is not distinguishable from a very very very advanced extraterrestrial civilization.

I personally can't tell you what would I consider definite proof of a God, but I know that what has been presented until now is far from convincing.

There are, alternatively, many things that could qualify as good evidence that there is a God, but I have not sat down to imagine what they would be like.

[Psi Baba]

Fundamentalist Christians always say that the Bible is the word of God. They acknowledge that it was penned by mortals, but that the content is the literal word of God. There is no way that they can prove that. None whatsoever. Any attempt at pressing them to explain how they know that invariably leads them to a tautology.

[marksman]

The Bible says it was written by God. Ergo, it was written by God.

That's also how I know Moby Dick was written by a guy named Ishmael and all the Sherlock Holmes stories were written by Dr. Watson.

[Simon39759]

Let's assume that the bible would say something like "Do not travel faster than the speed of light". Or "Do not try to measure both the speed and the location of small particles".


Verily, I say unto you; thou shall not cross the streams.

[Kapyong]

Gday,

The Bible says it was written by God.

No it doesn't.


K.

[KingMerv00]

Verily, I say unto you; thou shall not cross the streams.

In the event the streams ARE crossed, please skip to final chapter.

[Kilaak Kommander]

What type of evidence would convince you that the bible was written by god, and not by aliens?

If they held a book signing and I went and God signed my book.

[marksman]

No it doesn't.
psst. I was being sarcastic, as evidenced by the line I wrote after the one you quoted.

[Maia]

Fundamentalist Christians always say that the Bible is the word of God. They acknowledge that it was penned by mortals, but that the content is the literal word of God. There is no way that they can prove that. None whatsoever. Any attempt at pressing them to explain how they know that invariably leads them to a tautology.

Here's what Father Ian used to say in World Religions class during my junior year: In a spiritual sense, the Bible is inerrant, and it says exactly what God wants it to say. In a literal sense, it isn't necessarily inerrant. I guess it made sense at the time. Now, even beginning to think about the implications makes me devoutly glad (so to speak) that I didn't think about them before, because I really needed to get an A in that class, and thinking about what was said would not have contributed to the good grades project.

Anyway, then the whole class would always get distracted by the way Fr. Ian would sashay up to the front of the room and demonstrate how God appeared to Moses and handed out the Ten Commandments. "God didn't just come down from Mt. Sinai and say Hi there to all the Israelites!" (complete with lots of hand waving) "No no no. (more prancing about) God used Moses as his instrument to convey eternal spiritual truths(limp-wristed gesture very similar to a bad SNL parody of a gay aerobics class.)" Yep, Fr. Ian always did know how to liven up a dull Tuesday morning. ;)

[Robert Oz]

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

I think it is a silly request.


Atheists ask for evidence that the Bible was inspired by God, because that is precisely what theists claim. Without the claim, there would be no demand for evidence.

I think it is a silly claim.


Let's assume that the bible would say something like "Do not travel faster than the speed of light". Or "Do not try to measure both the speed and the location of small particles".

Why would that be evidence that it would be written by god?

I would assume intelligent aliens. This is a far more plausible hypothesis.


If the Bible contained information that couldn't possibly have been known at the time it was written, we could at least reach the conclusion that the men writing the Bible had access to a very intelligent and powerful source.

Those same men claim that the source identified itself as a god. So, either the source was a god or it was some other super-intelligence that deliberately misrepresented itself as a god.


What type of evidence would convince you that the bible was written by god, and not by aliens? Is there such a thing?


Since the source of such information would be highly intelligent and identifies itself as a god, I think it would be reasonable to provisionally conclude that it is a god.

Of course, the Bible contains nothing that would suggest this, and what it does contain seems to suggest the opposite.

[eccles]

If there were a "God" telling the writers of the Bible what to write, why did he make such a big stuff-up.

First "God" knew nothing about Physics or Astrophysics. Then to make matters worse he dictates two conflicting stories about the "Creation".

Then in about the 6th Century CE he dictates worse BS to an illiterate, Mohammed: the "Holey" Quran.

The "Holey" Babble is the worst book of fiction ever written. It should be classified X Rating.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a84aa90d2878.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17227)

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[JetLeg]

If there were a "God" telling the writers of the Bible what to write, why did he make such a big stuff-up.

First "God" knew nothing about Physics or Astrophysics. Then to make matters worse he dictates two conflicting stories about the "Creation".

Then in about the 6th Century CE he dictates worse BS to an illiterate, Mohammed: the "Holey" Quran.

The "Holey" Babble is the worst book of fiction ever written. It should be classified X Rating.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a84aa90d2878.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17227)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a927d97a44d4.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17396) Robert

Thankyou for saying nothing of relevance to the OP.

[drkitten]

But this is not my point. My question is - what proof would suggest that the bible was written / inspired by god, and not the alien / time travellers / superheroes hypotheses.

That's a silly question.

No one really proposes that the Bible was written by alien superheroes; that's a classic straw man. There is no need to disprove what has never seriously been proposed.

Now, if there were compelling evidence that the Bible had been written by someone with access to better-than-Bronze-Age technology and science, we might argue about who it was. But at the moment, the two leading contenders are "Bronze Age tribesmen" and "God," and there's nothing seriously to suggest "God" other than received dogma.

[Marduk]

That's a silly question.

No one really proposes that the Bible was written by alien superheroes; that's a classic straw man. There is no need to disprove what has never seriously been proposed.

Now, if there were compelling evidence that the Bible had been written by someone with access to better-than-Bronze-Age technology and science, we might argue about who it was. But at the moment, the two leading contenders are "Bronze Age tribesmen" and "God," and there's nothing seriously to suggest "God" other than received dogma.

lol the iron age started in Anatolia almost a millenia before the bible was compiled originally in a language that post dates the end of the Bronze age by 500 years, so at least we know that youre not God

are you perhaps satan ?
:p

[JetLeg]

That's a silly question.

No one really proposes that the Bible was written by alien superheroes; that's a classic straw man. There is no need to disprove what has never seriously been proposed.

Now, if there were compelling evidence that the Bible had been written by someone with access to better-than-Bronze-Age technology and science, we might argue about who it was. But at the moment, the two leading contenders are "Bronze Age tribesmen" and "God," and there's nothing seriously to suggest "God" other than received dogma.

Well.

I never said that anyone proposes that the bible was written by alien superheroes, so it is not a strawman.

There is nothing that would seriously suggest "God" other than received dogma, I agree.

So what?

Since people do argue that it was given by "God", it is interesting to think what evidence would support "god" over rival hypothesis of superheroes/aliens.

You know, we don't have to limit ourselves to debunking the views of the religious, but we can also think just for the interest of it.

Besides, atheists say "I do not think the bible was written by god because I do not see the evdence for this", so they have an intellectual duty to think what would be the evidence.

[Hokulele]

Besides, atheists say "I do not think the bible was written by god because I do not see the evdence for this", so they have an intellectual duty to think what would be the evidence.


No, they don't.

[Marduk]

well as large parts of the bible were plagiarised from earlier stories written in mesopotamia you'd have to define which God, because he was called Enlil when Atrahasis was written
;)
so to phrase your question correctly you'd have to ask "is there any evidence that a no longer famous god from a dead polytheistic ancient culture wrote the bible"

suddenly got a little ridiculous didn't it
:D

[Brainache]

...
the bing bang
...

Of the Walla Walla Bing-Bangs?



Sorry

[Elizabeth I]

lol the iron age started in Anatolia almost a millenia before the bible was compiled originally in a language that post dates the end of the Bronze age by 500 years, so at least we know that youre not God

are you perhaps satan ?
:p

millennium. One millennium, two (or more) millennia.

[Marduk]

are you posting because the "n" key on my laptop is screwy and I dont think its important enough to spell check the two thousand or more words I write in a day or because you really are superior ?
if its the latter I can offer you a job spell checking, but to prove it you'll need to point out the mistakes in the following sentence

"There are four spelling mistakes in this sentance, can you spot them easly or would you like a clue."
:D

[Pure Argent]

Well.

I never said that anyone proposes that the bible was written by alien superheroes, so it is not a strawman.

No one said that you were saying it was. But it has been used before to mock atheism.

There is nothing that would seriously suggest "God" other than received dogma, I agree.

So what?

Since people do argue that it was given by "God", it is interesting to think what evidence would support "god" over rival hypothesis of superheroes/aliens.

Not much.

You know, we don't have to limit ourselves to debunking the views of the religious, but we can also think just for the interest of it.

Agreed. That's why many of us are on here.

Besides, atheists say "I do not think the bible was written by god because I do not see the evdence for this", so they have an intellectual duty to think what would be the evidence.

No, we don't. The believers do. Burden of proof.

[Elizabeth I]

are you posting because the "n" key on my laptop is screwy and I dont think its important enough to spell check the two thousand or more words I write in a day or because you really are superior ?
if its the latter I can offer you a job spell checking, but to prove it you'll need to point out the mistakes in the following sentence

"There are four spelling mistakes in this sentance, can you spot them easly or would you like a clue."
:D

I don't give a damn what's up with your "n" key. I was objecting to your use of the plural when the singular was called for (at least judging by your use of the singular article "a".)

[eccles]

"well as large parts of the bible were plagiarised from earlier stories written in mesopotamia you'd have to define which God, because he was called Enlil when Atrahasis was written"

And Egypt, especially Egypt. Mary and Jesus, based on Isis and Horus.


http://home.austarnet.com.au/calum/egypt.html
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_338944aa078cc445c4.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17458)


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[Marduk]

I don't give a damn what's up with your "n" key. I was objecting to your use of the plural when the singular was called for (at least judging by your use of the singular article "a".)

I know how to spell millennnnnnium without your token pedantry thanks
:p

[Marduk]

And Egypt, especially Egypt. Mary and Jesus, based on Isis and Horus.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHGHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h
:rolleyes:

[eccles]

And speaking about Jesus, how about the accounts of the Last Supper in the Gospels. Whoever wrote that knew nothing about Jewish Dietary Laws - the Laws given to Moses by "God".

Then this "God" allows his "only begotten son" to break those laws.

Last Supper

And Jesus broke bread and gave it to his disciples saying "Eat ye this. This is my body"
Was it Kosher?

Then Jesus took a cup of wine and gave it to his disciples saying: "Drink ye this for this is my blood - etc blah, blah"

Jews were not allowed to consume blood.

It came to pass then that the Apostle, Barnabas whispered:

"Christ! Jesus has not had a bath today. YUK. Fancy expecting us to eat him and drink his blood".

And Roman Catholics do it at every Mass. They are cannibals

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a84aa90d2878.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17227)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a927d97a44d4.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17396) Robert

[pakeha]

...Besides, atheists say "I do not think the bible was written by god because I do not see the evdence for this", so they have an intellectual duty to think what would be the evidence. ...

Well, you're wrong on that, at least as far as this forum goes.

'The bible was written by god?'
Who believes that, JetLag?

And who says that disproving such an absurdity is an intellectual duty? Josh McDowell?

[Robin]

millennium. One millennium, two (or more) millennia.
I often wonder how you can bear to type type the URL "forums.randi.org". :)

[eccles]

I downloaded and printed all 12 chapters of this work:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/index.html

I am about half way through reading it and it is the best debunk of the Bible I have ever read. Not only does it debunk McDowell but it tears the Bible into shreds.

In chapter 3 on that list: The Canon of the Bible . The origin of the bible is explained as is how the final Canon of the bible was compiled and how long it took and how many versions there are in use today depending on the Christian Demonination using it.

Anyone who reads this and still remains a Christian is THICK.

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[Elizabeth I]

I often wonder how you can bear to type type the URL "forums.randi.org". :)

Why do you think I have it bookmarked? :p

(And there is a difference. I don't argue with "memos" or insist that people say "memoranda," and while "agenda" was originally the plural of "agendum," I understand that in current usage, it refers to that [singular] list of things that will be covered at the meeting. If, in 200 years, "millennia" has come to mean both singular and plural, then I'm sure people will adapt, and I won't be here so it won't worry me a bit.)

[eccles]

NO

This essay was written to be delivered as a lecture and is worded accordingly. It was part of a two day debate with a Fundamentalist minister. For each evening there are two parts, one of thirty minutes and a conclusion of ten minutes. This essay takes the negative position.


http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/emmett_fields/word_of_god_debate.html

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[eccles]

This essay will investigate the often-made claim from Christians, that the Bible is the inspired word of god, a corollary of which is that it is perfectly without error. This view is exemplified by the following statement of Jimmy Swaggart, a Pentecostal pastor: "One of the most basic tenants of the Christian faith is that the Scriptures are inerrant. Because the Bible is God's Word, it is entirely error-free." (Swaggart, 1987, p. 8) [1] It will be argued that this view - which will be referred to as Fundamentalism - is the only possible logical view of the Bible for a Christian, but that it is incorrect and, therefore, that the Christian god[2] does not exist. More formally, the argument of this essay can be expressed in the following manner:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/niclas_berggren/funda.html

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[Brian-M]

Fundamentalist Christians always say that the Bible is the word of God. They acknowledge that it was penned by mortals, but that the content is the literal word of God. There is no way that they can prove that. None whatsoever. Any attempt at pressing them to explain how they know that invariably leads them to a tautology.


The Laws and Commands in Exodus are supposed to be personally written by god himself...

24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount,
and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and
commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.


Twice, actually...

34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone
like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that
were in the first tables, which thou brakest.


Given what's in some of these "God-Written" commands...

Exodus|21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod,
and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
Exodus|21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not
be punished: for he is his money.

21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely
be put to death.

21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she
shall not go out as the menservants do.


It's probably a good thing they didn't let hime write the whole book. :D

(EDIT: Changed the quotes from World English Bible to King James Bible, just for the hell of it.)

[Jonnyclueless]

I agree.

But this is not my point. My question is - what proof would suggest that the bible was written / inspired by god, and not the alien / time travellers / superheroes hypotheses.

His unmistakable handwriting.

[Brian-M]

"There are four spelling mistakes in this sentance, can you spot them easly or would you like a clue."
:D


I only just looked at this sentence and can easily spot two spelling mistakes. Where are the other two?

Do we get bonus points for punctuation? I'm pretty sure that comma should be a semi-colon. :)


(EDIT: I skipped over a few posts when you started arguing about "millenia", so I didn't see it before.)

[pakeha]

...Since people do argue that it was given by "God", it is interesting to think what evidence would support "god" over rival hypothesis of superheroes/aliens.

You know, we don't have to limit ourselves to debunking the views of the religious, but we can also think just for the interest of it.

Besides, atheists say "I do not think the bible was written by god because I do not see the evdence for this", so they have an intellectual duty to think what would be the evidence.

Is there some reason to seriously consider those 'rival' hypothesis for sourcing the bible, JetLag?
They are, after all, pretty obvious 'strawmen' don't you think.
In any case, we're still waiting for an explanation for that 'intellectual duty' claim.
No rush. Just start when you're ready.

[Belz...]

Evidence that the bible was written by god?

I think someone found the pen, somewhere.

[JetLeg]

In any case, we're still waiting for an explanation for that 'intellectual duty' claim.
No rush. Just start when you're ready.

I already explained it - atheists say "I do not believe that the bible was written by god, because I see no evidence for it".

That logically implies that if an atheist would see the evidence for it, he would believe that the bible was written by god.

And so, I think that it is an 'intellectual duty' to ask of an atheist what evidence would convince him that the bible was written by god.

[Pure Argent]

I already explained it - atheists say "I do not believe that the bible was written by god, because I see no evidence for it".

That logically implies that if an atheist would see the evidence for it, he would believe that the bible was written by god.

And so, I think that it is an 'intellectual duty' to ask of an atheist what evidence would convince him that the bible was written by god.

In that case, theists have an intellectual duty to tell us what would convince them of the truth of evolution.

[eccles]

The top-selling Bible in North America will undergo its first revision in 25 years, modernizing the language in some sections and promising to reopen a contentious debate about changing gender terms in the sacred text. The New International Version, the Bible of choice for conservative evangelicals, will be revised to reflect changes in English usage and advances in Biblical scholarship, it was announced Tuesday. The revision is scheduled to be completed late next year and published in 2011.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090901/ap_on_re/us_rel_bible_translation

I just "edited" my copy of the NIV:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_338944a8544e1b2fd9.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17252)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a8542e558740.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17251)
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a927d97a44d4.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17396) Robert

[marksman]

And so, I think that it is an 'intellectual duty' to ask of an atheist what evidence would convince him that the bible was written by god.

Evidence of the existence of "God", as defined by those who believe God wrote the bible.
Evidence that "God" can write
Evidence that God has written
Evidence that God wrote the book called "the bible".

I cannot tell you what I'd need to believe points 2, 3, and 4, until we come to an agreement as to the existence of number 1. The specific qualities of God will help determine what evidence is needed for 2, 3, and 4.

Before I can tell you what evidence I need for 1, I need to know what observable qualities God possessed that are not possessed by any entities that are not God. Then I would need to observe such qualities in such a way that they could not be attributed to other causes.

One we've established the evidence of "God", we can move on to step 2.

So, please let me know what observable qualities God possessed that are not possessed by any entities that are not God.

[Marduk]

I only just looked at this sentence and can easily spot two spelling mistakes. Where are the other two?


"There are four spelling mistakes in this sentance, can you spot them easly or would you like a clue."


in this case I couldn't spell "three", "sentence" and "easily"
;)

when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth

[pakeha]

...Since people do argue that it was given by "God", it is interesting to think what evidence would support "god" over rival hypothesis of superheroes/aliens.

You know, we don't have to limit ourselves to debunking the views of the religious, but we can also think just for the interest of it.

Besides, atheists say "I do not think the bible was written by god because I do not see the evdence for this", so they have an intellectual duty to think what would be the evidence.

My bolding.
Jetlag's latest on the subject:
I already explained it - atheists say "I do not believe that the bible was written by god, because I see no evidence for it".

That logically implies that if an atheist would see the evidence for it, he would believe that the bible was written by god.

And so, I think that it is an 'intellectual duty' to ask of an atheist what evidence would convince him that the bible was written by god.

OK.
An interesting turn-about, but I don't mind.
Why single out atheists?
Wouldn't it be more interesting to hear the reasons of other theists who don't believe the bible was written by god?

I find your premise unstable; perhaps "I see no evidence the bible was written by god" would be closer to what 'atheists' say. Belief doesn't enter here.
Now the intellectual duty is yours?
When did that come about?
After writing this:
atheists say "I do not think the bible was written by god because I do not see the evdence for this", so they have an intellectual duty to think what would be the evidence

I'm confused.

[Brian-M]

And so, I think that it is an 'intellectual duty' to ask of an atheist what evidence would convince him that the bible was written by god.


Personally, given the antiquity of the text and the difficulty of finding valid evidence of authorship after all this time my answer would be: God personally announcing that he wrote the bible.

But let's go back and take a look at your OP for a minute...

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

I think it is a silly request.


I, too think this is a silly request, but for a different reason.
The reason being that nobody of sound mind is claiming that God wrote the bible. You'd be hard pressed to find even a foaming-at-the-mouth fundamentalist who claims that God personally wrote the bible.

Asking for evidence supporting a non-existent claim is, indeed, a silly request. :)

[eccles]

Deuteronomy 9
King James Bible


10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly. 11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant. 12 And the LORD said unto me, Arise, get thee down quickly from hence; for thy people which thou hast brought forth out of Egypt have corrupted themselves; they are quickly turned aside out of the way which I commanded them; they have made them a molten image. 13 Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.

15 So I turned and came down from the mount, and the mount burned with fire: and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands. 16 And I looked, and, behold, ye had sinned against the LORD your God, and had made you a molten calf: ye had turned aside quickly out of the way which the LORD had commanded you. 17 And I took the two tables, and cast them out of my two hands, and brake them before your eyes.



Deuteronomy 10 1

At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. 2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark. 3 And I made an ark of shittim wood, and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first, and went up into the mount, having the two tables in mine hand. 4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me. 5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.
----------------------------------------

The Lord must have had a LASER loaded finger lke that of Darth Vader.
Problem there is that The Lord wrote on the second set of tables a different version of the 10 Commandments. Not an all-knowing Omnipitent "GOD".

The Lord must have forgotten to save the first draft to his hard drive.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a84aa90d2878.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17227)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/338944a927d97a44d4.png (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17396) Robert

[Brattus]

Often new atheists ask for evidence that the bible was written by god.

New atheist? Wouldn't that include every person ever born?
We all start out as atheist. Religion is taught.

If that were not the case, then why was a bible written or inspired in the first place?

I believe the correct wording would be recovering atheist or returning atheist.

[Brattus]

It's probably a good thing they didn't let him write the whole book. :D)

Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!! That was really funny! Great post!:D