Did you once have a woo belief that you're now ashamed to recall?

[Cainkane1]

I did. I used to believe in theistic evolution. I believed Darwin was right but that goddidit.

[Professor Yaffle]

Despite having rejected alternative medicine some while before, I did for a while become convinced that there might be something to reflexology, based only on a personal experience. I'm not really ashamed of it, I think it helps provide me with insight into why so many people believe in this sort of stuff based on their personal experiences, and despite much evidence that it is bunk.

[Wolfman]

Heck, I used to believe not only in demonic possession, but that human souls could inhabit animal bodies, and even that humans could change into animals with the use of demonic powers. That any form of magic was demonic...even ventriloquism was demonic. Any kind of drum beat in music summoned demons.

I could go on and on all night.

[Nursefoxfire]

I was weaned on Chick Tracts. My parents were hard-core OT fundies. EVERYthing was evil, God spied on our innermost thoughts, we suffered in this world to cleanse us for the Afterlife.

I'm not "ashamed" of my beliefs, per se, because I had no control over my upbringing. But I do wish I'd seen through the BS earlier than I did.

[FramerDave]

At one time I was really fascinated by alien abductions. I read Communion and the the second book in the series. Then I read the books about the Gulf Breeze sightings and abductions, don't recall the guy's name.

What turned me off on the Communion books was the bizarre metaphysical crap. And in the second Gulf Breeze book I remember the author wrote about an episode in which he filmed a UFO over the water for about thirty minutes. Then when he played the taped it was...wait for it...nothing but static! That set off my BS alarms.

Then shortly after that I read The Demon Haunted World and I've never looked back. I still find the abduction thing interesting, but now as a psychological phenomenon.

Thank you Dr. Sagan.

Edit: Not terribly ashamed, I consider it a learning experience.

[JihadJane]

I used to believe the Bush regime 911 story. No shame in that though, either.

[runnah]

I used to work at Vitamin store. I bought into all the BS hype about the junk we sold. It helped that it was comissioned based.

I do feel bad for all the BS i spewed to get beer money.

[Lanzy]

UFOs for an awful long time.

But, read enough and the woo becomes clear, or you get hopelessly caught forever. I got better.

[Vortigern99]

At one time or another in my life, I have believed in:

* Bigfoot
* The Loch Ness Monster
* The 9/11 Conspiracy
* Telekinesis
* Telepathy
* The 100th Monkey Phenomenon (aka "Morphogenic Fields")

Through intensive study and research, I have determined there is no unambiguous, non-hoaxable, convincing evidence for any of these claims.

Like others who have posted in this thread, I'm not exactly "ashamed" that I once accepted these ideas. On a superficial level there is some apparent evidence for their existence, and at face value they might seem valid. It's only through close scrutiny and investigation that they crumble away to dust.

[Segnosaur]

I had many of the same basic beliefs that the general population did:
- Went to church, believed in god (although I also believed in evolution)
- Believed that things like psychics must be true, because I SAW them on TV (and, of course, at the time, didn't have access to appropriate counter-logic.)
- I actually STUDIED graphology... how to determine personality traits from handwriting samples. (Heck, one of the books that I read actually suggested it was valid because it could be tested, unlike other types of bunk...)
- Actually believed in a homeopath. (This was before I knew homeopath=water; I fell for the line that it was 'all natural'. Of course, I guess water IS natural...). My uncle had been going to her for years and got better when regular doctors hadn't been able to cure circulation problems in his legs, and I ended up believing the anecdotes. Even brought a friend there when they were having problems with a strange rash. (The rash did go away temporarily but came back.)

[Vortigern99]

UFOs for an awful long time.

But, read enough and the woo becomes clear, or you get hopelessly caught forever. I got better.

Well, technically UFOs inarguably exist: there are thousands or perhaps millions of unidentified flying or floating objects on record. For some reason many people use the term UFO as a synonym for extraterrestrial spacecraft, as though the conclusion that one describes the other is inevitable.

[Cainkane1]

Whew I feel better now. Ok now I feel free to admit a belief in ghosts. I even had a theory. I felt that the energy expelled after death was somehow held together and that a sort of personality continued to exist. I felt that the energy could be replenished using electricity. I though that was the explanation for ghost appearing more often on dark and stormy nights. I also felt that they could get this energy from the electricity found in our homes and businesses and I also felt that this explained why batteries often went dead on ghost hunts.

That was long ago. Goodbye woo hello reason.

[Kel]

I'm not ashamed to admit it, but I once believed in ghosts, alien abductions, big foot, the loch ness monster, Sylvia Browne (ok, maybe ashamed at that one), and that Ouija boards really worked.

[Kiosk]

I believed loads of this stuff when I was a kid. Vaguely, not passionately - I just saw it on TV / read about it, and thought "oh right, it must be true then." Never heard the other side of the story. It's weird, because I was always sceptical by nature, or at least not gullible, but I guess I just never bothered to apply critical thinking to things like ghosts, psychics, Nostradamus, UFOs, ESP, whatever. Probably because I never gave them too much thought of any kind.

Then, when I was about 16, I suddenly took an interest in the paranormal, which was when some kind of critical thinking finally kicked in. I thought "hang on, if this is true" - I think "this" was ghosts, but it may as well have been any of these things - "then it's the most incredible, astonishing, mind-blowing thing in the world. Why do so few people seem bothered? Why does there seem to be so little scientific interest? Why does the world behave as if these phenomena didn't exist?"

Decided to investigate the "other" side of the story. That was the end of that.

The "one that got away" was the JFK conspiracy. As far as I was concerned, "everyone knew" it was a conspiracy, and Oswald was framed. I suppose I let it go because it wasn't scientifically implausible, indeed it didn't seem implausible in any sense (we all know that the CIA have got up to some naughty things), and so, without really giving it too much thought (or reading anything substantial on the subject), I continued to assume. I think I was about 25 before I reached that same stage of "hold on, this is quite a big deal... is it actually true?" Took an interest, did some reading, and bang went my last pretty woo balloon.

[Patricio Elicer]

UFOs for an awful long time.

But, read enough and the woo becomes clear, or you get hopelessly caught forever. I got better.


Same thing here. I used to believe that UFO were alien ships from other worlds, I was literally caught up by the UFO craze of the 60's and 70's. But later on, almost by chance, I heard and read Sagan.

The guy made so much sense on his skeptical speech against UFO's as alien ships, that I couldn't help but admit that my cherished ideas of little green men visiting Earth, inviting us to visit their worlds, teaching us their advanced knowledge, etc, etc ,.... were wrong :o.

Paraphrasing Sagan himself, "if the world doesn't work as we would wish, so be it!".

As for the rest of woo beliefs, I never cared much, I was probably a "passive skeptic" ever since adolescence.

[Piscivore]

I believed almost everything at some point or another. I once thought I was the antichrist, I spent hours on my bedroom floor arranging a tarot deck looking for hidden signifigances, tried to use telekenisis to improve my bowling, convinved myself that I was filling up with "energy" when I meditated, was positive Atlantis was real, tried very seriously to learn how to "tesser", thought I transmitted my thoughts to others, looked for UFOs constantly, you name it.

I do still say encouraging things to my car. It helps, it really does. He can be testy sometimes, and likes having attention paid to him.

[Patricio Elicer]

I believed almost everything at some point or another. I once thought I was the antichrist, I spent hours on my bedroom floor arranging a tarot deck looking for hidden signifigances, tried to use telekenisis to improve my bowling, convinved myself that I was filling up with "energy" when I meditated, was positive Atlantis was real, tried very seriously to learn how to "tesser", thought I transmitted my thoughts to others, looked for UFOs constantly, you name it.


Since you are now a skeptic, ... that can be called a change.

[uruk]

Catholic clap trap. I was even an alter boy. No molestation though, except for maybe.....wait...no...NO!...DAMN YOU FATHER BOB!!!
PSI stuff
UFOs
Repulican party swill
Democratic party dillusions
Fear mongering in general
The idea that William Shatner was an awesome actor

You know, typical childhood stuff.

[KingMerv00]

I once did a report on Nostradamus in High School and because of it, was worried that something would happen on 5/5/2000. Years later, after I had forgotten about the report I saw a book on the 5/5/2000 disaster in the bookstore.

It was 5/10/2000. I had a good laugh.

[Sunray Breaker]

I remember the first Woo I obsessed on was UFO stuff. I used to watch the show Sightings and get freaked out whenever I saw a strange light. Then I sort of fell out of it...Then came Carlos Castaneda. Cool philosophies but packed with tall tales that I really started getting into. I was always trying to empower myself through lucid dreaming, trying to sweep my tonal and find the nagual, trying to determine if I was a Stalker or Dreamer...But I still love some of the philosophies of it, I don't take it too seriously...

I went from that to 9/11, NWO, FEMA Camps, Eugenics, Venus Project, The Monetary System BS, The Freeman Stuff....I was soaking in Woo when I came stumbling into these forums...Then good folks like Light in Darkness, Travis and D'rok schooled me in the Zeitgeist forums and that's when I finally started to pay closer attention....

You guys are awesome!!!

[ExMinister]

Well, most of you already know it but I'll say it anyway: Believing Sylvia Browne was 1) a real psychic, and 2) sincere. Enough to second guess myself in later years and become a minister. But on my behalf I will say that I met her when I was 19 or so and she befriended me, knew I was a broke college girl living alone in CA and offered me stuff for free (classes and such), and was very kind. So was her husband at the time, Dal. It was more a friendship and they were almost like family and she seemed very funny and down-to-earth back then, at least to a young girl who was raised to believe in New Age stuff to begin with. But that's why, even after I began to suspect she wasn't a real psychic (contradictions in her trance material, inaccuracies), it took me a lot longer to realize she wasn't sincere. Now it's so obvious, it's like a glaring neon sign, but under the circumstances I was in, it wasn't.

I'm recovering nicely from a lot of my old woo beliefs. I still kind of like to imagine that talking to my plants makes them grow, though. :)

[Big Les]

In order of age at which I abandoned them;

-Father Christmas
-Ghosts
-Aliens
-Dowsing

[Personal Grudge]

Over the years, I certainly held beliefs in a variety of woo... the Mormon faith, Wiccan magic, psychic powers, etc. I can't claim I am particularly ashamed of admitting the past beliefs from which I have been freed.

Perhaps the most agonizing belief from my youth involved masturbation. Believing it was a sin... not being able to resist doing it anyway... then feeling horribly guilty afterward. I even convinced myself that bad things would happen in my life because of this activity.

[Andrew Wiggin]

Homeopathy (my father is an herbalist and a pretty big believer in lots of woo. I got treated with a lot of placebos, crystals, and homeopathy when I was young, and since I believed them, they worked, sort of. Luckily I didn't have anything life threatening.)

Chi energy. (I studied chinese medicine and martial arts in college. Once I could do what my martial arts instructor did, and realized that while it took a high level of physical skill and strength, it didn't take mystic forces, I kept the practical side and lost the woo)

Psychic powers. (I really thought I had some extraordinary abilities to heal, detect the thoughts of others, dowse for leylines and energy fields, chase away infestations of bad spirits, etc. They don't stand up well to independent testing though. )

A

[Arthur Denton]

I used to be catholic. I used to believe in neoliberalism. I used to believe in ET experiences. I used to believe in homeopathy and uri geller.

Oh, and ghosts.

[Mark6]

I used to be a practicing pagan. But I can't really say I am ashamed. Wiccan/neopagan religion is about as harmless, tolerant and inclusive as they get, and I had seen it provide a good coping mechanism for some people who had some pretty horrible things happen to them. Without all the baggage of Chrisitanity.

Now, belief in telepathy and psychic healing, that I am ashamed about.

[Mark6]

I'm not ashamed to admit it, but I once believed in ghosts, alien abductions, big foot, the loch ness monster, Sylvia Browne (ok, maybe ashamed at that one)
Why? I assure you Sylvia Browne actually exists :D

[bookitty]

Oh golly, where to start. I was raised on woo by a hypochondriac Christian Scientist who loved science & math. (We had a "Newton Tree" with apples & stars for Christmas, and mom went back to college at MIT, graduated in 1989.)

When you're doing at home science experiments, you tend to go along with other stuff your mom believes - food allergies, old soul stuff (I would have been an "indigo" if I was younger, regardless of my talent or personality), past life, ghosts (I've seen quite a few), aura adjustment, herbs, homeopathy, chi-realigning, etc, etc.

Here's the funny thing, she didn't believe in UFOs because she knew enough science to have an opinion. So no UFOs. Therefore anything that overlapped with UFO's could be examined critically. Once you find out about one thing, you start looking at all of them. In my case it was sleep paralysis. Once I knew what that experience was, it became far more interesting to figure out why other stuff was bunk.

The pseudo-medical woo lost its luster as my mother's involvement in it started changing her. It accentuated an existing borderline personality disorder. All this nonsense was supposed to be helping her but the more she did, the worse she got. She's been going to some of these quacks for years! They tell her that her "heightened sensitivity" (aka paranoia, impulsiveness, attacks of rage) are proof that she is becoming more enlightened.

I embraced Christianity as a child but my first adult reassessment made me realize that my faith was just a habit. I didn't actually believe any of it. My wonderfully sarcastic atheist grandmother probably had a hand in that.

[Kel]

Why? I assure you Sylvia Browne actually exists :D

I know... :(

My sister and I would watch every Montel show she was on. At one point I was even taking my lunch breaks to watch her in the break room. Thankfully I did not go so far as to buy her jewelery or her books (although I did consider it once or twice while browsing in the bookstore).

I am so glad I found these forums.

[JihadJane]

Jesus! This feels like some kind of 12-step religious revival thread!

The shame!

The shame!

Thank Randi for deliverance from woo!

[Whiplash]

Oh man, several.

When I was a teen, I was into all of it. I believed in Billy Meier(sp?). I thought von Daniken's "Chariots of the God's" was brilliant and true.

I believed in Nostradamus. Secret government agencies. Ghosts. All of it.

As I got to be an adult more and more of it fell by the wayside. But I'm not ashamed to admit it.

[paximperium]

I use to hold the woo-ish belief that Truthers and 9/11 Conspiracy nuts were scum and a threat human society; then I realize how downright stupid and irrelevant they usually are. Now I see the light and see them in the same category as Bigfoot Reptoid Nazi believers, sad nutjobs.

[jhunter1163]

I still kind of like to imagine that talking to my plants makes them grow, though. :)

Well, plants like carbon dioxide, and when you talk to them you're exhaling it on them, so maybe they DO grow better. You can tell yourself that anyway. :)

[blutoski]

If anything, I've been guilty of not believing things that I should. ie: pseudoskepticism.

A case in point is that I found it hard to believe that large molecules like fullerines could show wave interference patterns through a slit experiment. This turns out to be true, but I had rejected it inappropriately in front of enough people that I'm still a bit embarrassed about it today.

[kitakaze]

I used to think Bigfoot was real. I was excited about it and passionate about the subject. I read and I read and I read. I would talk to friends and get them all excited about it, too. I don't think Bigfoot is real anymore and I never, ever feel ashamed or silly that I did. It was looking at the evidence presented that made me think Bigfoot was real and it was looking at it more that made me think Bigfoot is not real. I simply got better at examining evidence and researching claims.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

None. I had some vague woo beliefs, sure.

Nothing that I was even somewhat involved in, however.

So no shame there.

[quarky]

I loved the Castanada books and still do. It never mattered to me whether they were true or not. Some stuff is beyond true or false. Dreams, for instance.

[vIQleS]

Hard core (mostly fundy) christian from the age of about 8 till a few years ago.

Active YEC most of that time...

I'm not really ashamed about any of that - I was working the best I could on the information that I had. I like to think I was into YEC because I was looking for real science (whatever else you can say about YEC and ID etc - it certainly makes an effort to look like science). I was very upset when I realised that someone at some level of this 'organisation' was lying to me. I hate liars...

So in the end I discovered the truth - I'm proud of that...

[dropzone]

I was spooked by ghosts when i was a lad. Even the "mediums" I meet these days leave me thinking, "Even if he's dead, there's nothing I can do about it. I'd rather sleep." This expands my night's sleep, though an earplug that keeps out their moans is a blessing. ;)

[jakesteele]

I loved the Castanada books and still do. It never mattered to me whether they were true or not. Some stuff is beyond true or false. Dreams, for instance.

It's nice to see a fellow dreamer on this site. I, too, loved and still love his books. They had a huge impact on my life.

I have a friend who has read a couple of them and he once asked me if I thought they actually happened and I told him that it really didn't matter, it was how they impacted a person. It was all about the "mystery that shimmered beneath the words."

[Piercy]

Sylvia Browne and God.

[Delvo]

I used to believe... even ventriloquism was demonic.How?

Any kind of drum beat in music summoned demons.It's hard to find music without drumbeats! Right now I've got some Peter Phippen music playing; it's smooth, backgroundy stuff featuring instruments of the flute family from around the world (but the more common types made of wood or bone, for a soft, mellow, warm sound, not those shrill, piercing, metal ones you see in orchestras), and even THAT has a few tunes in it with drums. What kind of music did you listen to and how in the world did you (or whoever gave you the drum idea) find it?

* * *

I was raised in a fairly religious environment but could never take it seriously. And nobody ever lied to me about ghosts or fairies or Santa Claus in the first place. I considered most cryptid animals possible but wasn't convinced either way and didn't really care, so my only "conclusion" there was that I didn't have enough evidence and wasn't going to bother looking for it. (I'm the same with famous criminal trials. It's not that there's any mystery to it or that I don't think I could figure out whether they're guilty or innocent; it's just that I don't care enough to listen or look, and don't have anything to say about it without having done so.)

The facts and evidence I was presented with about aliens did have me convinced for a while. Then I saw claims that some of those facts were not true. Until then I hadn't known that they were disputed at all. A closer look revealed that one side had the scientists on it presenting their case with a more logical and scientific approach, and the other side's stuff about aliens tended to be associated with magical and spiritual stuff I didn't buy, and even when that wasn't the case, that side presented their case in a way that had logical holes in it and was usually expressed in a high-pitched, dreamy, wistful tone of voice that I had noticed is usually the tone of someone depicting the world as (s)he wishes it were rather than as it is. So that was the end of that. I just hadn't looked at the alien thing very closely to begin with.

[Hamsterfan]

I loved the Castanada books and still do. It never mattered to me whether they were true or not. Some stuff is beyond true or false. Dreams, for instance.

Oh the dreams, the faith, the ghosts, transcendental meditation - pretty much most sci-fi-ish things until a few years ago. I am reading Demon Haunted World now, and that is helping, but mostly some gentle enlightening from my beloved hubby, Ixion, has brought me out of my woo bred ignorance.

I am not really ashamed of any of the beliefs, just feel a bit silly when I think about it sometimes.

[epepke]

Yes. I believe that Skeptics weren't complete blithering idiots, or at least that they were less likely to be so than non-skeptics.

[Elizabeth I]

I believed the "Mexican Pet" urban legend. Woooo...

[leafman91]

Sorry to disappoint, but this one is still a believer.

I know UFO's exist, because flying things people can't identify are really commonplace. I don't know if there's aliens in 'em, but I know they exist too, because it would be too coincidental to say us guys are the only ones here. I am confident that contact could be made, because I am confident that the speed of light can be circumvented, making it possible for ET far away to reach us. I would have no doubt that the first act of the world governments on establishment of contact would be to keep it all covered up, because humans aren't too good with new species. That and to stop life imitating art (District 9).On the topic of art and Hollywood, I also think it quite quaint that should contact be made, we already have a fresh batch of political views regarding E.T, thanks to our sci-fi authors. In fact when/if contact is established, I'd imagine quite a lot of 'life imitating art' would result.

God does exist, and if I'm making him up for psychological aid, then you lot can bugger off and stop trying to beat up my psychological aid, thank you very much. Further to the point, the fact we exist is too much of a coincidence to leave down to chance, by quite a long way. So it's 'God did it' until scientists can figure out their next theory.

If Bigfoot existed and knew about humanity, then I would think he would at least run and hide, for all the love we've shown his brothers.
The fact that not one cryptid was noted to be at least as smart as us is just testimony to our own damn ego. Not one cryptid has ever been noted to be more than savage wild beasts, which is actually doing well, compared to what we're like when we panic.

But my main axe to grind is not the suggestion that people are ashamed of their former beliefs, that it was them being silly. It's the lack of empathy to those who still believe. How many of you in this post remember believing? Did it seem silly at all back then? How many would claim to have tried their best at enlightening then skeptics? How many remember the reason for doing so?
However misinformed these believers are, they are well intentioned, trying to share their world with us. The fact that you then go traipsing through ruining it all, poking fun at their last attempts to ward off cold hard logic, it sits on borderline cruelty. For some it isn't cold hard logic, it's simply cold hard assumption. For all the pity you all show wooers, you still have yet to show any understanding. For the sake of empathy, you could at least let them down slowly.

Apologies if I seem slightly pissed off.

[paximperium]

But my main axe to grind is not the suggestion that people are ashamed of their former beliefs, that it was them being silly. It's the lack of empathy to those who still believe. How many of you in this post remember believing? Did it seem silly at all back then? How many would claim to have tried their best at enlightening then skeptics? How many remember the reason for doing so?
However misinformed these believers are, they are well intentioned, trying to share their world with us. The fact that you then go traipsing through ruining it all, poking fun at their last attempts to ward off cold hard logic, it sits on borderline cruelty. For some it isn't cold hard logic, it's simply cold hard assumption. For all the pity you all show wooers, you still have yet to show any understanding. For the sake of empathy, you could at least let them down slowly.

Apologies if I seem slightly pissed off.
Beliefs, especially harmful and stupid beliefs do not deserve any respect and are not exempt from criticism or derision.

While one may be empathetic or feel "pity" for woo-believers, it is always telling how they almost always equate an attack against a belief as an attack against themselves. That is a sign of how irrational and close-minded such uncriticial belief systems are.

I feel pity and maybe even empathy for woo-believers but I have no sympathy or give excuses for such irrational beliefs. I tend to think higher of the intellect of my fellow human beings and make no excuses for their nonsense.

PS: Your above statements concerning UFOs and "god" are exceedingly absurd that when I read them, I actually thought your post was a parody. It is filled with classic irrational arguments and logical fallacies based on nothing but "just because I wanna believe." Does that tell you anything about how silly and irrational your beliefs are when taken at face value?

[Marduk]

If Bigfoot existed and knew about humanity, then I would think he would at least run and hide, for all the love we've shown his brothers.
.

Bigfoot has brothers ?

is one of them Boris Johnson ?
:D

[PixyMisa]

However misinformed these believers are, they are well intentioned, trying to share their world with us. The fact that you then go traipsing through ruining it all, poking fun at their last attempts to ward off cold hard logic, it sits on borderline cruelty.
That's your problem. The world is full of wonder. Believing in things that aren't there only diminishes it.

For some it isn't cold hard logic, it's simply cold hard assumption.And that's the argument from ignorance.

For all the pity you all show wooers, you still have yet to show any understanding. For the sake of empathy, you could at least let them down slowly.Your pet belief climbed up onto the roof... (http://mycleanhumor.com/clean-jokes/family-jokes/cat-on-the-roof.asp)

Anyway: I was a kid growing up in the 70's. You think woo is bad now? It's just peanuts to back then. Woo was endemic. Fortunately, about the same time I started getting interested in that sort of thing, I also started getting interested in science fiction, and started reading everything with the name "Asimov" on the cover.

I did run some experiments on pyramid power and precognition and telekinesis. Results in all cases were indistinguishable from chance / controls.

[Tapio]

It's nice to see a fellow dreamer on this site. I, too, loved and still love his books. They had a huge impact on my life.

Me too! And you know what, Castanedas' grandson Luis lives in Finland, and I became good friends with him some years back! Once had some whiskey with Luis' old man, too. So even more respect to the author through some lively stories of a strange grandpa...

I still get the chills when sitting in a dark forest with a light source, and moths gather round...

[Kiosk]

But my main axe to grind is not the suggestion that people are ashamed of their former beliefs, that it was them being silly. It's the lack of empathy to those who still believe. How many of you in this post remember believing? Did it seem silly at all back then?

I think what some of us may feel "ashamed" of is not the fact that we believed in something, but the logic - or lack of it - we used to get there. We were kind of dumb: we accepted claims without appropriate evidence, or used something highly dubious as a "supporting wall" in our belief system, or were guilty of some other kind of sloppy thinking which might now embarrass us.

This is not the same thing as being misinformed, or undereducated. If we believed in woo, it was (usually) our own silly faults for not thinking properly, or allowing enthusiasm/emotion to undermine good sense. It's that basic error which we feel "ashamed" of (I'm using scare quotes because I think that very few people feel actual shame about this, but you know what I mean). Empathy for current woo-believers doesn't really enter into it. That's a separate subject.

How many would claim to have tried their best at enlightening then skeptics? How many remember the reason for doing so?

I never personally tried to "enlighten" skeptics - once I was exposed to the skeptical view, I realised almost at once that I'd been wrong to believe this stuff so casually. But for those who did, the reason would presumably have been an emotional need to believe in one's own "reality", and to defend it against any rational thought which might threaten that warmth and fuzziness. This may be understandable, but it's nothing to be proud of.

Remember we're talking about ourselves here. We're allowed to feel embarrassed (or even ashamed) if we want. I'm not sure what your beef is, really.

[Patricio Elicer]

So it's 'God did it' until scientists can figure out their next theory.


I prefer to say "we still don't know", until scientists can figure it out.

The God hypothesis is exactly as explaining a mystery with another mystery. In summary, the God explanation explains nothing.

[paximperium]

I prefer to say "we still don't know", until scientists can figure it out.

The God hypothesis is exactly as explaining a mystery with another mystery. In summary, the God explanation explains nothing.
Not only does it explain nothing, it removes any further inquiry on the matter.

[Maia]

It's funny, because for me, this is a question that isn't really possible to answer in the way that it's asked, and this is also going to be true for people who've had the same experiences I've had. I used to be terrified of... well, I'm not completely sure if I ever believed they were actually, literally ghosts, but it took me forever to fall asleep, and then I'd have nightmares and wake up and wouldn't be able to fall back asleep, and I'd see this and hear that and be sure there were things in the closet and so forth. This continued for many years past childhood off and on. So it did seem very woo-ish, I guess. Well, then a number of events conspired to make me take the PCL-C (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:T4HqTRBg2lwJ:ctc.georgetown.edu/pdf/ptsdchecklistPCL_C.doc+PCL-C+PTSD&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us), and to get a formal diagnosis of PTSD. We who have the trauma-related disorders have a lot of subjective experiences that seem absolutely inexplicable, like they have to be related to weird paranormal things, although, of course, they're not-- they primarily come from one of the three symptom clusters of PTSD, which is re-experiencing. I do think now that there's a subset of people with paranormal beliefs who fit into this category.

[Marduk]

I believed that the government were there to defend me against those who would do me harm.

more fool me,
I joined the army based on that belief and got shot at several times
:p

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I was once a devout Catholic but it's nothing I'm ashamed to recall.

It's odd to think that I was once a pious albeit doubting Christian. "Really? Me? I was a churchgoer?!".

Looking back, being raised a Catholic was something that was both bad and good for me. Good in some ways, bad in others. Neutral and neither bad nor good in other ways. If I could do my life over, I'm not sure I'd erase it.

Was I a good person when I was a Christian? Yes, I was. I was a kind and smart and sweet person.

I wasn't judgemental or hypocritical. I had mixed feelings about things like homosexuality but I was never mean or nasty towards gay people for being gay, even if I was somewhat uncomfortable with them.

Am I a better person now that I'm a lapsed Catholic? Not sure. Maybe.


Does anyone else feel the same way about their religious upbringing?

[jhunter1163]

I used to be pretty sure there were Sasquatches. I grew up out in Washington state and was frequently regaled with tales of the big guy's exploits. As I got older, though, and a little more skeptical, I took a critical look at the evidence for Sasquatch and found it wanting. This was really disappointing to me; I wanted Bigfoot to be real, and in some dark corner of my psyche I still do. What I want, though, has no bearing on what is, and based on the evidence I can only conclude that Sasquatch doesn't exist.

That said, though, no one would be happier than me if someone turned up irrefutable evidence of Sasquatch (a body, for example).

[Cainkane1]

It's funny, because for me, this is a question that isn't really possible to answer in the way that it's asked, and this is also going to be true for people who've had the same experiences I've had. I used to be terrified of... well, I'm not completely sure if I ever believed they were actually, literally ghosts, but it took me forever to fall asleep, and then I'd have nightmares and wake up and wouldn't be able to fall back asleep, and I'd see this and hear that and be sure there were things in the closet and so forth. This continued for many years past childhood off and on. So it did seem very woo-ish, I guess. Well, then a number of events conspired to make me take the PCL-C (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:T4HqTRBg2lwJ:ctc.georgetown.edu/pdf/ptsdchecklistPCL_C.doc+PCL-C+PTSD&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us), and to get a formal diagnosis of PTSD. We who have the trauma-related disorders have a lot of subjective experiences that seem absolutely inexplicable, like they have to be related to weird paranormal things, although, of course, they're not-- they primarily come from one of the three symptom clusters of PTSD, which is re-experiencing. I do think now that there's a subset of people with paranormal beliefs who fit into this category.
PTSD can be devastating. It may be responsible for my former woo woo belief crap.

[Cainkane1]

I used to be pretty sure there were Sasquatches. I grew up out in Washington state and was frequently regaled with tales of the big guy's exploits. As I got older, though, and a little more skeptical, I took a critical look at the evidence for Sasquatch and found it wanting. This was really disappointing to me; I wanted Bigfoot to be real, and in some dark corner of my psyche I still do. What I want, though, has no bearing on what is, and based on the evidence I can only conclude that Sasquatch doesn't exist.

That said, though, no one would be happier than me if someone turned up irrefutable evidence of Sasquatch (a body, for example).
Wouldn't it be cool if sasquatch did exist? A big not quite human not quite ape walking around in the woods. We could give if food. we could care for it when it got sick. We could hire it to be our bodyguards. Hell we could give it our bananas and apples. we could love it to pieces.

[Morrigan]

I thought von Daniken's "Chariots of the God's" was brilliant and true.
Same. :boxedin: Then "true" became "unlikely, but still interesting", before it finally became "complete and utter hogwash, but would make kick-ass sci-fi stories" a few years later.

[quarky]

There were monsters under my bed when I was a kid.

Yours too, probably.

When i got older, I had the sense to lay a mattress right on the floor, eliminating that evil space below; that habitat for monsters.

Coincidently, the mattress on the floor was also way better for sex than that bed with the head boards and foot boards and that awful space below, where monsters breed after the lights go out.

[arthwollipot]

I used to speak in tongues at one time.

A bit later I performed pagan rituals.

I still read Tarot cards occasionally.

[dropzone]

Nah, I've admitted them. And admitted that there are still a few I'm open to.

[Patricio Elicer]

Not only does it explain nothing, it removes any further inquiry on the matter.


Exactly!. That's a good point against religion,.... one more...

Religion taking over the world = dark age.

[Elizabeth I]

But my main axe to grind is not the suggestion that people are ashamed of their former beliefs, that it was them being silly. It's the lack of empathy to those who still believe. How many of you in this post remember believing? Did it seem silly at all back then? How many would claim to have tried their best at enlightening then skeptics? How many remember the reason for doing so?

However misinformed these believers are, they are well intentioned, trying to share their world with us. The fact that you then go traipsing through ruining it all, poking fun at their last attempts to ward off cold hard logic, it sits on borderline cruelty. For some it isn't cold hard logic, it's simply cold hard assumption. For all the pity you all show wooers, you still have yet to show any understanding. For the sake of empathy, you could at least let them down slowly.

Apologies if I seem slightly pissed off.

Beliefs, especially harmful and stupid beliefs do not deserve any respect and are not exempt from criticism or derision.

While one may be empathetic or feel "pity" for woo-believers, it is always telling how they almost always equate an attack against a belief as an attack against themselves. That is a sign of how irrational and close-minded such uncriticial belief systems are.

I feel pity and maybe even empathy for woo-believers but I have no sympathy or give excuses for such irrational beliefs. I tend to think higher of the intellect of my fellow human beings and make no excuses for their nonsense.

PS: Your above statements concerning UFOs and "god" are exceedingly absurd that when I read them, I actually thought your post was a parody. It is filled with classic irrational arguments and logical fallacies based on nothing but "just because I wanna believe." Does that tell you anything about how silly and irrational your beliefs are when taken at face value?

Pax, that plus the fact that, at least as regards this forum, it's the believers who bring their beliefs here. To my knowledge, no one from JREF goes out into teh webs and induces believers to come and get their pretty toys smashed.

[paximperium]

Pax, that plus the fact that, at least as regards this forum, it's the believers who bring their beliefs here. To my knowledge, no one from JREF goes out into teh webs and induces believers to come and get their pretty toys smashed.
I actually do go to true believer forums on occasion. Haven't done so in a few years since it is pretty taxing. However, I'm way more careful and less of an ass when I'm actually doing so. When in enemy territory, I'm nice even if disagreeable.

My favorite tactic is to have different woos fight one another. I once started a discussion once with the title "Which is better; Acupuncture or Chiropractic for backpain?" It was rather amusing battle of anecdotes and bad evidence. I just came in on occasion to prod the fight on every so often by taking opposing sides. I can't remember where it is archived...ah memories.

[pakeha]

It's funny, because for me, this is a question that isn't really possible to answer in the way that it's asked, and this is also going to be true for people who've had the same experiences I've had. I used to be terrified of... well, I'm not completely sure if I ever believed they were actually, literally ghosts, but it took me forever to fall asleep, and then I'd have nightmares and wake up and wouldn't be able to fall back asleep, and I'd see this and hear that and be sure there were things in the closet and so forth. This continued for many years past childhood off and on. So it did seem very woo-ish, I guess. Well, then a number of events conspired to make me take the PCL-C (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:T4HqTRBg2lwJ:ctc.georgetown.edu/pdf/ptsdchecklistPCL_C.doc+PCL-C+PTSD&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us), and to get a formal diagnosis of PTSD. We who have the trauma-related disorders have a lot of subjective experiences that seem absolutely inexplicable, like they have to be related to weird paranormal things, although, of course, they're not-- they primarily come from one of the three symptom clusters of PTSD, which is re-experiencing. I do think now that there's a subset of people with paranormal beliefs who fit into this category.

Thanks for a thoughtful and thought provoking post, Maia.
I'm afraid there's a lot of walking wounded out there.

[Tapio]

Like so many here, I too have believed in such an innumerable amount of different things, ranging from fairly usual stuff to utterly absurd and extreme. Now, I'm definitely not ashamed of the beliefs themselves (with my upbringing, teachers, friends and personality, there's no other way I see it could've gone), but I do feel remorse for some of the stuff I did to other people because of these beliefs.

Anyway, nowadays I mostly feel gratitude for my past irrationality. I've experienced such an immense variety of different states of consciousness and wandered through some extreme emotional landscapes, which I believe I wouldn't have done without it. True, it's somewhat a 'miracle' I'm still alive to tell these stories because of some things I did based on my beliefs, but since I am here, I feel grateful for the stuff I've gone through, as well as for the part of me that 'allowed' all of it to happen.

Also, as a fairly 'active' skeptic, I find these personal experiences very helpful when confronting people who are going through the same stuff now. Whatever the belief may be, it is true to the one experiencing it. There's been talk here of empathy towards the believer. I've found discussions with believers most fruitful when I've been able to convey exactly this empathy towards the person believing, not necessarily the belief itself. My own history as a believer (as well as the fact I've really gone through arduous work in tearing those beliefs to shreds and not ending up bitter) has helped a lot in this regard. I think this also may be something that makes me bare with all the nonsense a bit more than someone who hasn't personally experienced believing it. It's not such a big deal to me if someone I meet rages on about some woo woo. I know that person has the potential to use rational logic to dispel it, but only 'needs' (if they're not happy/if they're doing notable harm to others) someone to help him/her find the right tools suitable for them.

So, instead of feeling ashamed of any aspect of my former beliefs, I'd rather make them a tool with which to share the light of reason to those void of it and asking for it. I know it's exactly this kind of conduct from people that got me to take the first step out of a 'demon haunted world'.:)

[arthwollipot]

I used to speak in tongues at one time.This is the one that I feel most embarrassed about admitting. That I actually took it seriously. I still can't believe that.

[Whiplash]

I told you, that's just what the bad man chose to call that activity.

[twistor59]

Christian Science (the Mary Baker Eddy kind - thanks mum and dad !)
Erich von Daniken stuff
Professional wrestling

[Bikewer]

Sure. After becoming bored with mainstream religion (Catholicism), I went through the typical "searching" phase so many of us do. Fiddled around with Eastern philosophies and so forth.
Got interested in neo-paganism for a while and actually participated in a number of ceremonies and Sabbats. Did a lot of reading, and decided that paganism was just as bound up in dogma and internecine arguing as was any mainstream religion.

[ExMinister]

Well, plants like carbon dioxide, and when you talk to them you're exhaling it on them, so maybe they DO grow better. You can tell yourself that anyway. :)

OK, so this made me laugh out loud.

Ha.

Being gifted at blowing out a bunch of carbon dioxide is my secret to big beautiful house plants. Who knew.





:cool:

[jhunter1163]

OK, so this made me laugh out loud.

Ha.

Being gifted at blowing out a bunch of carbon dioxide is my secret to big beautiful house plants. Who knew.

:cool:

I don't talk to my house plants, and they invariably die within a few weeks of arriving in my house.

There's some anecdotal evidence for you.

[Lanzy]

OK, I freely admit UFO "to me" means spacecraft from another planet. Throwing a rock and someone catching a quick glimpse of it does not constitute a UFO. Nitpicking the term means we all believe in UFOs.

[Ignatowski]

I thought von Daniken's "Chariots of the God's" was brilliant and true.



Yeah , I bought into von Daniken for a while too. And until I did some more research and reading, i thought Bigfoot, aliens and ghosts were likely as well.

[Stray Cat]

I got into researching Crop Circles because I used to believe (well more hope really) that Aliens made them. :jaw-dropp

I also spent 8 years learning about and to some (largish) extent practicing Wicca witchcraft.

All well behind me now and the best way to be armed with scepticism is with indepth knowledge so I don't see any of it as a waste really because if you're going to build a case against any subject, it's good to know your stuff from the inside.

[XLDS03]

But my main axe to grind is not the suggestion that people are ashamed of their former beliefs, that it was them being silly. It's the lack of empathy to those who still believe. How many of you in this post remember believing?

Believing sucked. Nothing came of it.

Did it seem silly at all back then?

Actually, it did. But cognitive dissonance and outright denial kept hope alive.

How many would claim to have tried their best at enlightening then skeptics?


Can't enlighten with confusion. Can't tell the truth with a lie. Any enlightening I did back then was to bolster my failing confidence, not because woo worked.

How many remember the reason for doing so?

Child abuse. Woo was hope.

I still want to believe. But... that wasn't healthy.

[riptowtan]

I believed in all sorts of woo when I was around 13. Bigfoot, UFOs, Loch Ness Monster, Jersey Devil, Ghosts, God. But I was young at the time so I don't feel too embarrassed about that. For the past year I have been investigating various conspiracy theories focusing mainly on JFK and 9/11, and at times strongly believed them. At face value the claims alone are convincing. But the problem is, hardly any of the claims are true. I'm pretty confident none of the conspiracy theories are true but glad that I did investigate them to understand why people DO believe them. Conspiracy theories probably share the same uncritical methods of investigation as any of the other pseudosciences. Making extraordinary claims with invented extraordinary evidence.

One thing I always get a kick out of is when believers in the paranormal assert whenever someone disagrees with them, that they are a pseudoskeptic. I'm pretty sure someone with a woo belief invented this term just to derail anyone that challenged their beliefs.

[bookitty]

However misinformed these believers are, they are well intentioned, trying to share their world with us. The fact that you then go traipsing through ruining it all, poking fun at their last attempts to ward off cold hard logic, it sits on borderline cruelty. For some it isn't cold hard logic, it's simply cold hard assumption. For all the pity you all show wooers, you still have yet to show any understanding. For the sake of empathy, you could at least let them down slowly.

Apologies if I seem slightly pissed off.

For some woo that is the case. For the bulk of it, that is definitely not the case. Especially in the field of alternative medicine and "well-being." In the best possible scenario, these people are charlatans who only take your money in exchange for a fairy tale. More often they take your money and your health. In my mother's case, her sanity is on the line and there is very little chance of getting her back into the real world.

How well intentioned are the anti-vax doctors, the holocaust deniers, the telephone psychics, the faith healers, the homeopaths?

And worse the people who do have good intentions and end up harming people? Like those parents who believe the anti-vax crowd, or the ones who pray for a desperately sick child instead of taking her to the doctor. What about the people who kill children because they believe that they are possessed by demons?

Go give this site a quick read - http://whatstheharm.net/ and then tell me again why you're pissed off.

[Corsair719]

I believed all the woo stuff...but then I turned 12. I am a bit ashamed I am much older than that now...

[quarky]

This is the one that I feel most embarrassed about admitting. That I actually took it seriously. I still can't believe that.

I'd be curious to hear more about that experience. I've never really been around it, and have only heard a tv preacher speak in tongues. I'd like to know what's going on in the speaker's head. If you've gone into this before, on this site, I'd love a link. Also curious about the sounds themselves, and if they get repeated by others, or if its all unique.

[Maia]

Thanks for a thoughtful and thought provoking post, Maia.
I'm afraid there's a lot of walking wounded out there.

You're welcome. :) But we keep walking! So it's all good.

The irony is that some of the verifiable phenomena associated with the traumatic and dissociative disorders are so much more bizarre (IMHO) than most woo could ever be. However, there's nothing to do but take it seriously, and it's because of things like this:

"There are reports of variation in physiological function across identity states (e.g; differences in visual acuity, pain tolerance, symptoms of asthma, sensitivity to allergens, and response of blood glucose to insulin."

This is from the diagnostic criteria for dissociative identity disorder, which is invariably caused by extreme trauma, and it comes from the DSM-IV-TR (http://www.psych.org/mainmenu/research/dsmiv/dsmivtr.aspx), the standard diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, which can be found in any psychiatrist's or psychologist's office. The DSM-IV-TR is written by committees of experts in their fields, is published by the American Psychiatric Association, and is approved by the American Medical Association.

If something is approved by the AMA, you know it's as mainstream as anything is ever going to get. And this passage is referring to research which has found that one personality in DiD may have fatal medication allergies while others do not... some have diabetes and others do not... that one can be BLIND while others are not... that one can be QUADRIPLEGIC while others are not... :eye-poppi Well, this was all rather hard for me to accept, but ultimately, I can't argue with the APA, the AMA, the head of psychiatry at Vanderbilt University, and the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disorders!

[fromdownunder]

I am not sure that I ever seriously believed in "it", but I would still love Nessie to be found. It is the ONE I still almost hang on to.

The closest I got was actually (as others have mentioned) Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods, and the Bermuda Triangle, later comprehesively destroyed by Crash Go the Chariots, and Bermuda Triangle, Mystery Solved. Oh, did I mention a belief in the Christian God?

Norm

[Comrade Raptor]

Let's see:

UFOs
Alien Abductions
Atlantis
Magic
Philadelphia Experiment
Astrology
ESP
Telekinesis
Psychic Prediction
Nostradamus
Bermuda Triangle
and Ancient Astronaut Theory


For most of that, I blame Unsolved Mysteries and In Search Of.


But for the Big Mack Daddy of them all, I can only blame myself.

I was a Millennialist. Yes, it's true. I actually expected the world to end in the year 2000.

Strong in my belief, sure in it, I spent every cent I had and racked up a ton of debt. I literally partied like it was 1999. Helluva year.

But then, to my great shock and horror, the world kept moving right along. And now I had a big mess to take care of.

On the plus side, that's a pretty effective anti-woo treatment. Taking care of that damage required some hardcore rational thinking and problem solving. Once I did that, I never went back.

Now when I see woo-hash (looking at you, "history" channel) I roll my eyes. Or yell at the TV, depending on my mood. ;)

[XLDS03]

My weirdest beliefs are more particular to my parents' psychosis I was raised under. Everything else was an extension. As in, the delusions I was taught were my measuring stick for reality. I was actually quite skeptical. I had the wrong tools. For example: random feelings as confirmation, random thoughts as divine guidance, and vague presences as heavenly messengers.

To list my weirdest:

-I was AA Michael for a while.

-I could commune with God and see spirits.

-I could speak the Adamic language. (Reference to Mormonism.)

-I was prophetic.

-I could heal with my hands... or thought I could.

-I was Elijah the Prophet. God would grant me magical priesthood powers to teleport to and save Jerusalem.

Believe you me, I hunted high and low for evidence to confirm my beliefs. Few, if any people ever sat me down and spoke reason. Not even that lame-ass psychiatrist I saw for two years.

Eventually, after failure upon failure, I got up and left. No sense being stupid. I had false starts with woo-woo's over the next few years. But I've had to leave them, too.

Funny thing is, now I don't see spirits. I don't hear God. I don't receive prophecy. I'm just me. On my own, nothing.

So, when I come across some belief that reminds me of that shared family psychosis I left behind, I have no patience for it. No matter the emotion-laden sales pitch.

Better late than never to join skepticism. But I wonder. What if ten years ago someone had sat me down and spoke reason? Not religion. And not fear of offending my beliefs. If I took the years I spent on woo-woo forums and spent them in physics courses, I'd be a PhD by now. What a waste of time.

[Quinn]

I didn't believe the world would end in 2000, but I was concerned enough about Y2K hysteria in my city that I made arrangements to be elsewhere for New Year's Eve. In my defense, we have an unusually high concentration of A) booze, B) guns, and C) stupid people here at any given normal time, let alone the millennial New Year's Eve. And we have a hard enough time keeping the power on and the electronics working on a good day. So my logic was, if technological failure (even minor, temporary glitches) was going to happen anywhere, it was going to happen here. And if there was anyplace where people's reaction to such failure was likely to turn disproportionately hysterical, it was here. Frankly, even though nothing like that ended up happening, I think I would make the same choice again under similar circumstances.

Oh, and my former woo of choice was out-of-body experiences. Never gave them much thought till I had one, and it freaked me out big time. So I did some research on the (fledgling) internet, found a bunch of people who had had them too, and their experiences sounded identical to mine. Hence, I became a believer due to what I now recognize as a classic case of confirmation bias. I continued believing for several years, during which I had several more OBEs. It was only by chance that I happened to stumble across an article on sleep paralysis, and realized that was what was actually happening to me. Reflecting on that experience, and my reactions to it, is what turned me into the skeptic I am today.

[arthwollipot]

How well intentioned are the anti-vax doctors, the holocaust deniers, the telephone psychics, the faith healers, the homeopaths?Simple well-intentioned ignorance is a far more likely explanation than deliberate malice and the intent to cause harm for personal gain. Very few people are truly that evil.

I'd be curious to hear more about that experience. I've never really been around it, and have only heard a tv preacher speak in tongues. I'd like to know what's going on in the speaker's head. If you've gone into this before, on this site, I'd love a link. Also curious about the sounds themselves, and if they get repeated by others, or if its all unique.Hmm. Well, I recorded an "audition tape" for when we were setting up the podcast about glossolalia. I'll see if I still have a copy when I get home, because it's not a bad explanation.

I could go on and on about it - it's apparently supposed to be the "holy language" - that spoken by God and the Angels, which anyone can hear and interpret if the Holy Spirit is upon them (a la Pentecost, from which the Pentecostal churches derive their name). It's supposed to be a prophecy in that holy language.

As far as the sounds themselves go - it isn't simple repetition (eg. "blablablablabla"), which tends to lend verisimilitude to the idea that it's an actual language. When I did it, it tended to have lots of Bs, Ds and Ls - more like "Balam badda lala barimadalla bramilla dabalaa". Something like that, anyway. Apparently random syllables strung together into a continuous stream. There is definitly commonality in the way different people do it. They are imititating each other, of course.

Fascinating phenomenon, in a way. The church put great store in a person speaking in tongues. Like, you weren't really a part of the community until you started doing it. So of course there was tremendous pressure on any new converts (like me) to conform, especially since they systematically tried to alienate me from my previous friends by saying that they weren't of Jesus and were therefore of Satan.

[quarky]

Simple well-intentioned ignorance is a far more likely explanation than deliberate malice and the intent to cause harm for personal gain. Very few people are truly that evil.

Hmm. Well, I recorded an "audition tape" for when we were setting up the podcast about glossolalia. I'll see if I still have a copy when I get home, because it's not a bad explanation.

I could go on and on about it - it's apparently supposed to be the "holy language" - that spoken by God and the Angels, which anyone can hear and interpret if the Holy Spirit is upon them (a la Pentecost, from which the Pentecostal churches derive their name). It's supposed to be a prophecy in that holy language.

As far as the sounds themselves go - it isn't simple repetition (eg. "blablablablabla"), which tends to lend verisimilitude to the idea that it's an actual language. When I did it, it tended to have lots of Bs, Ds and Ls - more like "Balam badda lala barimadalla bramilla dabalaa". Something like that, anyway. Apparently random syllables strung together into a continuous stream. There is definitly commonality in the way different people do it. They are imititating each other, of course.

Fascinating phenomenon, in a way. The church put great store in a person speaking in tongues. Like, you weren't really a part of the community until you started doing it. So of course there was tremendous pressure on any new converts (like me) to conform, especially since they systematically tried to alienate me from my previous friends by saying that they weren't of Jesus and were therefore of Satan.

Thanks, Arth. Interesting stuff. I wonder how peers would determine if the tongue-speaker was faking it or not? As kids, we used to pretend to speak in a foreign language. I wonder if it was like that?

[arthwollipot]

Thanks, Arth. Interesting stuff. I wonder how peers would determine if the tongue-speaker was faking it or not? As kids, we used to pretend to speak in a foreign language. I wonder if it was like that?Yes, a bit like that. And I can assure you, the possibility of faking it never entered anyone's mind. Not ever.

[MysteryMammal]

I used to believe much of the beauty industry crap. An aesthetician once told me something about some product being "one molecule different" from some bodily produced chemical or something, and that's when I started getting suspicious. Come to find out that many of the claims of various products can't be substantiated at all or are actually meaningless ("bio-identical" anyone?).

[GlennB]

Dabbled at various times spiritualism, tarot, I Ching, ouija and 9/11 CT.

But got better pretty quickly in each case.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Simple well-intentioned ignorance is a far more likely explanation than deliberate malice and the intent to cause harm for personal gain. Very few people are truly that evil.



That's right on. When someone does harm, it is usually out of stupidity and ignorance and not evil or greed. This goes for woo, this goes for non-woo.

Many mediums, for example, truly believe they can communicate with the dead. They didn't learn cold reading through a desire to take other people's money; they picked it up while watching other mediums or independently stumbled onto it themselves while trying to learn to read cards or accidentally learned it some other way and have no idea that what they are doing is actually cold reading. They believe that the words coming out of their mouth are the words of the dead. That's what con artists they are, that they somehow manage to con themselves and believe in and fall for their own scam.

Sylvia Browne is a cynic, John Edward is also probably a cynic who somehow justifies it to himself but someone like Rosemary Althea (spelling?) probably is a true believer.

Even a sleazy con man like Deepak Chopra seems to believe his own line of BS and seems to be passionate about it. He loves the money he makes and the attention he gets, for sure. Yet his real motivation is that he truly and sincerely believes this stuff.

This is also why most conspiracy theories are doubtful. The government isn't an organ of evil that would ruthlessly murder and loot, like the CTs imagine. The government is an institution that often does do very bad things to its citizens- but when they do bad things, it is usually out of stupidity, misguidedness and incompetence.

[Tapio]

Yes, a bit like that. And I can assure you, the possibility of faking it never entered anyone's mind. Not ever.
:D

That's why 'the oracle', used in some congregations has a huge role...it doesn't matter who babbles and what, 'the oracle' (s/he who has the charismatic gift of interpretation) is trusted to understand everything. I made several major changes in life during my youth depending on what the 'oracle' I trusted told me.

[Maia]

I used to believe much of the beauty industry crap. An aesthetician once told me something about some product being "one molecule different" from some bodily produced chemical or something, and that's when I started getting suspicious. Come to find out that many of the claims of various products can't be substantiated at all or are actually meaningless ("bio-identical" anyone?).

This is actually a very good point, because it illustrates just how many weird and unsubstantiated beliefs are underlying things you wouldn't expect. A perfect example: that weird thigh cream from several years back Guys may not remember this, because it was definitely marketed at women, but the idea was that you rubbed it on your thighs and magically lost weight. If anybody had thought about it logically for even a minute, it didn't make any sense. There wasn't any proof it worked, nobody had ever seen anybody who had ended up with thin thighs that way, nobody could ever say that it worked for them or that they knew ANYBODY it worked for, nobody ever even had a friend of a friend that they'd heard it worked for, and the 2 doctors who developed it also patented it right away so they could make money on it. :rolleyes: But even now, it still pops up here and there.

[arthwollipot]

Here we go:
http://www.arthwollipot.com/spokenword/speakingintongues

[volatile]

When I was a kid, my nan bought me a really pulpy "Tales of the Unexplained"-type book that included past-life regression, the Philadelphia Experiment, some story about mysterious green-skinned children in Mexico and a whole compendium of other weird phenomena. It was my favourite book until I was about 13.

[Akhenaten]

<snipped down to the sad truth>

I can't argue with the APA, the AMA, the head of psychiatry at Vanderbilt University, and the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disorders!





You're going to have to work to overcome this shyness of yours, then you could.


;)

[leafman91]

Pax, that plus the fact that, at least as regards this forum, it's the believers who bring their beliefs here. To my knowledge, no one from JREF goes out into teh webs and induces believers to come and get their pretty toys smashed.

P***, the stick hit a nerve. I was poking fun, but it looks as if I was poking in the wrong places. :boxedin:

[paximperium]

P***, the stick hit a nerve. I was poking fun, but it looks as if I was poking in the wrong places. :boxedin:
So your post was a parody? Glad to hear that. Looks like there is hope for mankind yet.

[Eyeron]

I once believed that Dungeons And Dragons and Rock And roll were Satanic. For example, I was told that KISS stood for Kids In Service To Satan and that AD DC stood for Against Christ Defeat Christ. I was a kid then and knew nothing about critical thinking and never knew anything about CT until I was well into my adulthood.

While I no longer believe in many of the usual things like UFOs and Bigfoot, I will always be interested in this phenomena and will always hope that some day they find true evidence, such as a body, to prove sentient ebes. However, I should also state that while I don't believe in them, I do find it extremely hard to believe that it is completely impossible under any circumstances that they exist.

[vIQleS]

I once believed that Dungeons And Dragons and Rock And roll were Satanic. For example, I was told that KISS stood for Kids In Service To Satan and that AD DC stood for Against Christ Defeat Christ. I was a kid then and knew nothing about critical thinking and never knew anything about CT until I was well into my adulthood.

While I no longer believe in many of the usual things like UFOs and Bigfoot, I will always be interested in this phenomena and will always hope that some day they find true evidence, such as a body, to prove sentient ebes. However, I should also state that while I don't believe in them, I do find it extremely hard to believe that it is completely impossible under any circumstances that they exist.

:-D

Kids in Satan's Service, and Against Christ, Devil's Child...

:-D

[Tricky]

When I was a child, about 8 or 9, I used to frequently spend the night at my grandmother's house. Grandma lived out in the country in a house that my Grandfather had hand-built. It was a rickety but quaint old thing, filled with character, secret places, hidey holes and forbidden zones. (The attic was strictly off-limits). Though it possessed great character, it lacked any kind of plumbing, and consequently, an indoor bathroom. Grandma would put a potty on the porch for us to tinkle in, but pooping was strictly verboten. For that, we had to go to {shudder} The Outhouse. The Outhouse was located down a path that went about a hundred yards into the woods (to avoid drawing flies too close to the house) and it was made of pine and corrugated tin. I do remember that it smelled bad, but not horribly bad. Going there in the day was perfectly okay.

But when the night fell, it was my nemesis. Some nights it was a horrible struggle between holding it in and going to the outhouse in the dark. There were times, though, when that struggle was unwinnable. I HAD TO GO. Oddly, going to the outhouse was a bit scary, but it wasn't until I got there that the real fear set in. It was noisy. Things were moving around in the woods. I hit upon the conclusion that a vampire lived in the outhouse, and that he ran away from my flashlight, but was lurking outside, annoyed at being disturbed.

So I squeezed with all my might, made a quick swipe with a page from the Sears and Roebuck catalog. (Yes, that cliché is true.) and prepared for the long trip home. I couldn't exactly run through the woods in the dark without going sprawling, but it was the fastest walking I ever did. But when I hit the yard, with the vampire right behind me, it was a sprint to the house. I'm sure the door that banged behind me woke Grandma up, but she never complained.

Once in the house, I began to feel ashamed of myself. I knew ghosts and vampires didn't exist. I knew that I was being a big baby. But such lamplight knowledge does not matter when you are racing through the woods with a vampire on your tail.

[quarky]

Here we go:
http://www.arthwollipot.com/spokenword/speakingintongues

Thanks. Very educational.

[arthwollipot]

Thanks. Very educational.Anytime. :)

[XLDS03]

I once believed that Dungeons And Dragons and Rock And roll were Satanic.

Me, too. I even extended the superstition to clothing. Such as having logos splayed cross your tee-shirt was immoral or something. Or beer shirts brought bad spirits. (Actually, tasty spirits.)

[Kuko 4000]

I used to believe in UFO's, as in alien spacecrafts that have visited our earth. I stopped believing when I was 16 or 17, still hoping though.

[Almo]

Here we go:
http://www.arthwollipot.com/spokenword/speakingintongues

Yes, that was really interesting!

[Burning Beard]

I believed I was a victim of psychic/spiritual attack :o

Turned out to be hypnagogic hallucinations.

For a while I was absolutely convinced aliens are visiting us and that the disclosure project was gonna bust the conspiracy wide open :jaw-dropp

[RSLancastr]

When I was around 13 years old, I went through a phase where I read every book I could find on a variety of wo topics: UFOs, Bermuda Triangle, Ghosts, ESP, etc.

I accidentally bought a book which debunked the whole Bermuda Triangle topic, and never looked back.

[Burning Beard]

I accidentally bought a book which debunked the whole Bermuda Triangle topic, and never looked back.

That's awesome! :D

That was one of the topics I used to obsess over!

[Jontg]

Former Christian. Former 9/11 truther. Former Holocaust denier. Former believer in magic, psychic phenomena, and so forth. I'm not sure in hindsight which of the many insane things I believed as a kid were real, and which were just playacting to mess with my parents.

[Eyeron]

Me, too. I even extended the superstition to clothing. Such as having logos splayed cross your tee-shirt was immoral or something. Or beer shirts brought bad spirits. (Actually, tasty spirits.)

Actually I avoid tee-shirts with logos like the plague because I feel it's free advertising for the company and I'm paying to advertise for them. I want to be paid for advertising.

[Third Eye Open]

I used to be into tarot and psychics and stuff when I was a teenager, but not really ashamed of that, the one that I'm really embarrassed about is that I fell for Kevin Treudo and his 'Big Pharma' crap. As an adult. 6 or 7 years ago.
:o

Why I didn't just stop to think about it a bit? I don't know. Trying to understand what went through my mind, why I just believed it after seeing it on tv, it's very strange to think about.

[StanBearclaw]

Not ashamed, but more angry at this one: Dowsing.

I'm angry because they taught it to us at school. We went on a field trip to the local cemetery for the day, and we learned some local history, did some gravestone rubbings and then were taught we could find graves with a couple of wire coat hangers.

[Burning Beard]

Reflecting on that experience, and my reactions to it, is what turned me into the skeptic I am today.

That was the biggest catalyst for me. Not overnight, but led to an gradual unraveling of ideas I'd got sucked into by fringe magazines and books.

[Burning Beard]

Same. :boxedin: Then "true" became "unlikely, but still interesting", before it finally became "complete and utter hogwash, but would make kick-ass sci-fi stories" a few years later.

It's on my shelf still, next to The Philadelphia Experiment and Co-Evolution blush:

[XLDS03]

P***, the stick hit a nerve. I was poking fun, but it looks as if I was poking in the wrong places. :boxedin:

Parody? Then all is well. Rhino-thick hide here. But that argument-- why rain on others' parades-- is a very popular argument with the woo.

Reminds me of a story:

My older brother used to parody a gay man. He named himself Stacey and had a heavy lisp. My mom worked at a site with openly gay men. My bro thought he'd play a little joke. He met Mom at work. One of the men came up to show Mom pic's of his new wedding dress. (He had a collection.) He looked my brother up and down with an approving nod. My brother didn't say a single word his whole time at the job site.

[XLDS03]

Here's something funny I forgot about.

In my late teens I thought of conducting a scientific survey. I would hang out at public places with my clipboard. I'd shout "Jesus Christ!" at the top of my lungs and tally all the times someone told me to shut up. That would prove the godlessness of the American people.

I was dead serious.

[Soapy Sam]

When I was a kid, I used to believe grown-ups knew what they were doing.

[jayman]

My friend sent me a video of a clip from Zeitgeist: The Movie. It sent me tumbling down the rabbit hole of paranoid conspiracy theories. I thought the government and the powers that be were out to enslave all of us, 1984 big brother style. I was perplexed that my "hard evidence" (a pseudo internet "documentary") wasn't convincing people or if people already agreed with the movie why wasn't anyone doing anything about it?

I was open to having my mind changed.

A short list of things that changed my mind:

*Skeptic's article on 9/11 conspiracy theories (http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11)
*Debunking 9/11 Myths by Popular Mechanics
*Penn & Teller's BS episode on Conspiracy Theories and Big Brother
*Opie and Anthony (whom I am a big fan of) not buying into the conspiracy crap
*Michael Shermer talking about how the 9/11 conspiracy theorists have got nothing, as far as evidence goes, to prove their "theories"
*Bill Maher ridiculing 9/11 conspiracy theorists on his show
*The Skeptic's Dictionary article on paranoid conspiracy theorists (http://www.skepdic.com/illuminati.html)

The Skeptic's Dictionary article on conspiracy theories was the final breaking point for me. After I read that article I realized just how the thinking of a conspiracy theorist goes wrong. They base their claims on no credible evidence what-so-ever. I no longer buy into the conspiracy non-sense.

[Burning Beard]

My absolute last woo woo was The Disclosure Project *ducks*

What a load of hooey! Steven Greer is a total hack.

[Vortigern99]

I have a fun story from my youth to share, on the topic of this thread, about which I had forgotten, until it returned to me the other day while in the bath.

When I was 13 and my then step-brother was 12, I was into magic in the sleight-of-hand sense. Trick cards, conjoining rings, plastic thumbs into which you insert a handkerchief unbeknownst to your victim/audience, etc. You get the idea.

Well. I had acquired this trick deck that was treated with some kind of chemical to make two cards adhere to one another, so that you could produce, with the flick of your thumb, any card you desired (requiring a bit of math and calculation based on the surrounding cards, but that's too much detail for the purpose of the story). The downside was that if you rubbed too hard while trying to produce the hidden card, the chemical rubbed off, taking with it some of the white surfacing of the card, revealing a blue coloring underneath the white surface.

With me so far? Great. Stick around, this gets fun.

My step-brother and I were playing around with the cards one day, and to my chagrin we discovered that the 8 of clubs had a blue rub-mark on it -- a result of one of us having applied too much friction while trying to produce the card. This would have been no more deleterious than putting me out the $5 cost of the trick deck... except that we also had a deck of combination Tarot/playing cards (with little black cats on the back of each card), which asserted that the 8 of clubs was equivalent to...

[cue rum roll]

... the Death card, number 13 in the Major Arcana!

[cue three-note dramatic flourish: dun dun DUUUUUNNNNN!]

Being 12-ish, we freaked out at this, certain that we had discovered some kind of insidious supernatural precognitive revelation that one of us was going to die. Soon.

On a whim, we decided to ransack the house for every deck of cards we could find, looking for some kind of verification of our find. As you might guess two woo-addled pre-teens would do, each of us, working alone, secretly marred the 8 of clubs card in the decks we found -- using in some cases a lighter or a ball-point pen -- and then presented these cards as "evidence" and "independent corroboration" of our chilling "discovery".

Every single deck of cards in the house now had a marred/mutilated 8 of clubs. Both of us knew, secretly, that the other had marred the cards he had found, but we both played along, feigning surprise and shock at this unbelievable, supernatural find. The thrill of this exercise in imagination and performance art was so overwhelming that we told everyone we knew about it for weeks after the event, our eyes wide with wonder and awe.

When my father later discovered this egregious mutilation of all his playing cards, he beat us soundly and locked us in a dungeon for a month with no food but the treacle that grew on the walls.

Kidding about that last part. He chuckled and said something like "Well, if one of us dies I guess that makes you both psychic."

[twistor59]

Here we go:
http://www.arthwollipot.com/spokenword/speakingintongues


Ah yeah, tongues ! When I went to church I was always disappointed that I never got the gift of tongues. Now I'm glad - I'd be embarrassed to have done that stuff.

Your tongue talking is cool though - much better than anyone at our church.

[NoisyAstronomer]

Sure, I'll join the confession chain...

Used to be fascinated by UFOs and thought that the gov't might indeed be involved in a conspiracy. This went hand in hand with my love of astronomy until, sometime in high school, the scientific method finally made sense to me and it was clear that no good evidence for alien visitations had ever come to light. But I still listened to Art Bell for a while, for giggles.

When I was even younger than that, I not only believed in angels, ghosts, and demons, but I thought that my friends and I had special powers by which we could communicate with them. We had a very elaborate story made up, and I think we all believed our own delusion. In the end, it was harmless fun, and it was a way for us to connect as fellow not-cool-kids in school.

There's surely more, but those are the first two that come to mind!