Bible Codes.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

I was watching a show this morning on the history channel and I was a little weirded out. They claimed that they found codes in the Bible telling us of things like JFK,9/11, and a bunch of other events. I immediately started thinking it was a load of crap and that by putting a bunch of letters together anyone could make a code.

I don't know, what does everybody think of this? Has anyone heard of it?

[Cavemonster]

Assassinations foretold in Moby Dick (http://cs.anu.edu.au/people/bdm/dilugim/moby.html)

With a long enough source material of repeating symbols, you can find anything you want to find.

The book, "The Bible Code II" can be found to encode the following message
"The Bible Code is a silly, dumb, fake, false, evil, nasty, dismal fraud and snake-oil hoax."

Ad to that we don't have an original letter by letter copy of Genesis, and any given "code" only works on one variant. Looking for a letter by letter code is a bit like finding the code in "Purple Monkey Dishwasher" at the end of a game of Telephone.

[JJM 777]

Bible Code works like this:
- select a source text (the holier, the better)
- select every Nth letter from the text, starting at Mth letter, to create a "Code"
- use a computer program to vary N and M, to create endlessly different "Codes"
- print these "Codes" on the computer screen
- browse through these endless "Codes", to find letter sequences that accidentally form some words
- to convince the weak in their faith, select many intelligible letter sequences from the same Code matrix printed on the screen, so it looks like the words were "meant to belong together"
- don't hope to get long intelligible phrases, at best you will get a few grammatically correct words quite near each other, which will not have much in common, and which will not form a grammatical sentence
- hand-pick such letter sequences, around which you are able to build the most sensational possible stories

In other words, it is the user of this computer software who creates the Code, not really the source text. Any source text will do, and nearly any "Code" can be "found".

[Akhenaten]

I was watching a show this morning on the history channel and I was a little weirded out. They claimed that they found codes in the Bible telling us of things like JFK,9/11, and a bunch of other events. I immediately started thinking it was a load of crap and that by putting a bunch of letters together anyone could make a code.

I don't know, what does everybody think of this? Has anyone heard of it?


No, I've never heard of it.

[TimCallahan]

One thing that is always glossed over in these Bible Code shows is that the lines of biblical verses are of uneven length. In order to put them into a matrix the words are first run together, then arbitrarily formed into lines of a certain number of characters. Change the length of the lines and vertical and diagonal skip sequences will be totally disrupted. So what was the divine inspiration for making the lines of a certain length?

A real test of the Bible Code would be for proponents of the Code to make a very specific prediction based on it before the fact. This hasn't happened, and it isn't going to.

As to this crap appearing on the History Channel, when anything on the Bible or anything else that is supernatural is presented there, the producers always play soft-ball with believers. This includes underwriting that twit who calls himself "The Naked Archaeologist." Among the more egregious violations of history on that channel are: programs on the Exodus, full of supposedly "scientific" explanations of the plagues against Egypt, etc.; a program on Joshua's conquest of Israel, treating it as historical fact; numerous shows on Revelation and other Bible prophecies, in which people like Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye are treated as experts, with very little time given to those of us who have refuted them; shows on Nostradamus, treating his "prophecies" as valid; shows on the whole 2012 Mayan calander bit, again without any balance; and, of course, the Bible Code crap.

[Safe-Keeper]

Any text of significant length contains this kind of "codes", and there are several, if not many, programs on the Web that you can feed text into to find them. Just give the software a text string, provide words to look for, such as SATAN, and it'll spit them out faster than you can say Prophecy.

As to this crap appearing on the History Channel, when anything on the Bible or anything else that is supernatural is presented there, the producers always play soft-ball with believers. This includes underwriting that twit who calls himself "The Naked Archaeologist." Among the more egregious violations of history on that channel are: programs on the Exodus, full of supposedly "scientific" explanations of the plagues against Egypt, etc.; a program on Joshua's conquest of Israel, treating it as historical fact; numerous shows on Revelation and other Bible prophecies, in which people like Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye are treated as experts, with very little time given to those of us who have refuted them; shows on Nostradamus, treating his "prophecies" as valid; shows on the whole 2012 Mayan calander bit, again without any balance; and, of course, the Bible Code crap.It's sad to see such a fantastic program go down the drain.

[jimtron]

Assassinations foretold in Moby Dick (http://cs.anu.edu.au/people/bdm/dilugim/moby.html)

With a long enough source material of repeating symbols, you can find anything you want to find.

The book, "The Bible Code II" can be found to encode the following message
"The Bible Code is a silly, dumb, fake, false, evil, nasty, dismal fraud and snake-oil hoax."

Ad to that we don't have an original letter by letter copy of Genesis, and any given "code" only works on one variant. Looking for a letter by letter code is a bit like finding the code in "Purple Monkey Dishwasher" at the end of a game of Telephone.

Great link. A little depressing though, at the bottom of the page:

It has come to my attention that some people have taken this page as claiming that Moby Dick really predicted the assassinations of famous people. Please be assured that none of these patterns happened by other than pure random chance.

[TimCallahan]

Well, the so-called "History" Channel did it again. Just last night they aired a rather muddled program, a pastiche of Nostradamus, the Bible Code and the 2012 Mayan apocalypse, dressing the whole thing up with bits of speculative science involving the "galactic alignment" and energy waves that could devastate the the earth. The science was itself rather shabby. One supoosed expert claimed that the die-off of large mammal species in the Americas at the end of the last glaciation as the result of one of these energy waves. He gave no supporting evidence for this claim, but stated it as though it were accepted by scientific concensus

Notably every "expert" interviewed had authored a book in support of one of the three subjects. There was not one skeptical, dissenting voice in the entire program, not even in the form of the soundbytes to which they usually consign James Randi, Michael Shermer and other critics. I would have loved to see Penn Gillette suddenly popping up in the midst of this drivvel screaming, "It's ************!"

Does anyone know who to write at the History Channel, to protest this shameless pandering to sensationalism and fear mongering?

[steve s]

Assassinations foretold in Moby Dick (http://cs.anu.edu.au/people/bdm/dilugim/moby.html)


Thanks for that link. It's ridiculous how completely convoluted their codes are. I think most people assume that the various keywords are contiguously spelled out in order, rather than choosing a letter down here, another one way up over there, and so forth.

Steve S.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Great link. A little depressing though, at the bottom of the page::dl:

I guess people really are that ignorant. Sigh....

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

Well, the so-called "History" Channel did it again. Just last night they aired a rather muddled program, a pastiche of Nostradamus, the Bible Code and the 2012 Mayan apocalypse, dressing the whole thing up with bits of speculative science involving the "galactic alignment" and energy waves that could devastate the the earth. The science was itself rather shabby. One supoosed expert claimed that the die-off of large mammal species in the Americas at the end of the last glaciation as the result of one of these energy waves. He gave no supporting evidence for this claim, but stated it as though it were accepted by scientific concensus

Notably every "expert" interviewed had authored a book in support of one of the three subjects. There was not one skeptical, dissenting voice in the entire program, not even in the form of the soundbytes to which they usually consign James Randi, Michael Shermer and other critics. I would have loved to see Penn Gillette suddenly popping up in the midst of this drivvel screaming, "It's ************!"

Does anyone know who to write at the History Channel, to protest this shameless pandering to sensationalism and fear mongering?

Pfft, 2012 "prophecies" are becoming more and more of a joke to me. I will admit, and I do not know why, but I do still worry a little bit though.

[Cavemonster]

Pfft, 2012 "prophecies" are becoming more and more of a joke to me. I will admit, and I do not know why, but I do still worry a little bit though.

Just do a tiny bit of critical thinking and research and you won't be worried by 2012, bible codes or the end of the world.

The benefits of critical thinking, you don't have to stay up all night worrying about things that won't happen.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Just do a tiny bit of critical thinking and research and you won't be worried by 2012, bible codes or the end of the world.

The benefits of critical thinking, you don't have to stay up all night worrying about things that won't happen.But I worry all the people who can't think critically are mucking up everything for those that can.

[Beerina]

Great link. A little depressing though, at the bottom of the page:


It has come to my attention that some people have taken this page as claiming that Moby Dick really predicted the assassinations of famous people. Please be assured that none of these patterns happened by other than pure random chance.


You'd think South Park was exaggerating when Stan did psychic "tricks" to a crowd, explaining exactly what he was doing, and people still came and asked about their dead grandma.

[RobRoy]

It always bothers me that the History Channel puts these kinds of things on, thus lending them credence and scaring folk into believing them. I understand such things brew ratings, just like ghost hunters and Al Capone's vault, but they're all just as empty of truth, and rely on paranoia rather than healthy skepticism and proper research.

[Lothian]

I was watching a show this morning on the history channel and I was a little weirded out. They claimed that they found codes in the Bible telling us of things like JFK,9/11, and a bunch of other events. I immediately started thinking it was a load of crap and that by putting a bunch of letters together anyone could make a code.
I don't know, what does everybody think of this? Has anyone heard of it?..

[TimCallahan]

Last night History International aired an excellent program on 9/11 conspiracies, going into detail on the claims made by the so-called "truthers" and refuting them point by point and a thourough detailed manner. It was a great job of debunking.

This is in sharp contrast to the way they handle the Bible Code, the 2012 Mayan apocalypse and Nostradamus. It shows that the folks who run History and History International are quite capable of really great programming and could, if they chose, thoroughly debunk the prophecies of Nostradamus, the 2012 apocalypse and the Bible Code. Instead tey pander to the believers. I suspect the reason for this is fear of retaliation and boycotts. However, I also suspect the numbers of those who believe in, for example, the Bible Code is much smaller than the producers think.

[Pure Argent]

Last night History International aired an excellent program on 9/11 conspiracies, going into detail on the claims made by the so-called "truthers" and refuting them point by point and a thourough detailed manner. It was a great job of debunking.

This is in sharp contrast to the way they handle the Bible Code, the 2012 Mayan apocalypse and Nostradamus. It shows that the folks who run History and History International are quite capable of really great programming and could, if they chose, thoroughly debunk the prophecies of Nostradamus, the 2012 apocalypse and the Bible Code. Instead tey pander to the believers. I suspect the reason for this is fear of retaliation and boycotts. However, I also suspect the numbers of those who believe in, for example, the Bible Code is much smaller than the producers think.

...

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it's larger than you think it is...

:drool:

[TimCallahan]

Perhaps you're right. One interesting point made in last night's program was the large percentage of Americans who believed that our government was involved in some way with the destruction of the World Trade Center. However, that didn't stop History International from airing the program. Perhaps they could be a bit less mealy-mouthed about the 2012 apocalypse, Nostradamus and the Bible Code. After all, of the three topics only the Bible Code could be seen as anything in any way impingeing on the Christian or Jewish religions.

So the path for debunking could be as follows.
1) First, isolate the these three topics from one another.
2) Second, debunk the Mayan apocalypse, stressing how the Mayan religion has been misinterpreted and misused by New Agers.
3) Next, on a separate program, debunk Nostradamus, stressing how many of his seemingly specific prophecies have been fudged and deliberately mistranslated.
4) Debunk the Bible Code on a third show. Point out that one can still believe in the message of the Bible without the code. Also demonstrate how the "predictions" in it can be totally disrupted by changing the number of characters in the lines of the artificailly constructed matrix set up by the Code enthusiasts. Finally, expose Drosnin's theory in detail. He believes that space aliens created life on earth by directed panspermia and directed evolution by going back and forth in time. Time travel was also their way of embedding prophecies in the matrix. I'm not maing this up.

[Dancing David]

The irony is that there is a bible code and they always ignore it.
In hebrew letters are numbers, therefore words have number value, chai (life)=18 8=10 (because you don't count the vowel 'a')

So when they say that so an so lived to be 1234 years old there is probably a word that matches that value.

The one I like is if you take the latin word SUM and use the hebrew values

60+6+600

[JJM 777]

The irony is that there is a bible code and they always ignore it.
In hebrew letters are numbers
A code perhaps, but then how do you interpret the code? Or is it just a code without any meaning?

[Arthur Denton]

Pfft, 2012 "prophecies" are becoming more and more of a joke to me. I will admit, and I do not know why, but I do still worry a little bit though.

There's an old lady who comes into the tech store I own every week or so to copy a DVD she has about the mayan prophecies. Inside? Youtube videos, blog articles and pictures and schemes. It's funny, what worries me is that she is really scared that things will change, and worst, she's kinda campaigning over it. She's also catholic, so she shouldn't - at least in theory - worry about prophecies, she should count on god or whomever blesses her to save her from it.

Anyway, it's pure fertilizer stuff, this 2012 thing. /spamming this thread.

[Arthur Denton]

A code perhaps, but then how do you interpret the code? Or is it just a code without any meaning?

That's easy: In the worst way possible. Bad news move the midia.

[MikeSun5]

One thing that is always glossed over in these Bible Code shows is that the lines of biblical verses are of uneven length. In order to put them into a matrix the words are first run together, then arbitrarily formed into lines of a certain number of characters.

Wasn't the original Bible Code derived from using the Hebrew Bible as well? The one that doesn't use any vowels?

Pfft, 2012 "prophecies" are becoming more and more of a joke to me. I will admit, and I do not know why, but I do still worry a little bit though.

Fear not. The weekend before last I was visiting the ruins in Chichen Itza and Ek Balam (Cancun kicks butt, btw. :alc:), and I met Mayan people there. My tour guide was of Mayan descent and had studied the culture since he was a child. One thing that the friggin MAYANS themselves believe is this: The world will not end in 2012.

From the horse's mouth, buddy. You're good to go. :)

[Dancing David]

A code perhaps, but then how do you interpret the code? Or is it just a code without any meaning?

Perhaps the way that the people who used the code used it? (I am not saying that it is anything other than a construction, it was a refined oral tradition before it was written down.)

That is part of the craziness of the whole hidden code, there is already an allegorical and a numeric code in the bible.

[JJM 777]

Perhaps the way that the people who used the code used it?
Yes I know that letters were used as numbers, so a sequence of letters can be seen as a sequence of numbers. What to do with these numbers, exceptsay that some of the numbers are holy, and others are sign of the Beast?

[Sherman Bay]

One thing that is always glossed over in these Bible Code shows is that the lines of biblical verses are of uneven length. In order to put them into a matrix the words are first run together, then arbitrarily formed into lines of a certain number of characters. Change the length of the lines and vertical and diagonal skip sequences will be totally disrupted. So what was the divine inspiration for making the lines of a certain length?I've seen various schemes for setting up the text before doing ELS (Equidistant Letter Spacing) on it.

One (and I think Drosnin's original) was to compress the letters by removing all spaces. If you do this in Hebrew, you already have removed the vowels. Then letters are chosen, starting at X, skipping to the Yth letter after, then the Yth letter after that, etc. until you have enough letters to form a word, words or phrase.

The ELS skips can be forward or back. The starting point can be any character in the entire document. The stopping point is arbitrary; you stop when you think you have formed something interesting. And it you are using Hebrew, you can insert vowels between the results to make the consonants into something more meaningful -- obviously that allows for many possible options and interpretations.

I think the diagonal, vertical, etc. alignment you are referring to is merely a display device to make the resulting words more obvious. The ELS interval can be any number from 1 to the total characters in the text. Larger skips would not diagram well, but they are not eliminated from consideration. It is only one long text string and a "diagonal" alignment is merely an artifact of how it is displayed.

To make what you found/create more dramatic, search for some other word or phrase that "intersects" the first one. For example, if you find/create the word "twin", see if you can make "towers" come up anywhere, the closer, the better. Then you can claim that the Bible foretold 9/11.

The more imagination you have, the more "coincidences" you will create/find.

[Nosi]

I was watching a show this morning on the history channel and I was a little weirded out. They claimed that they found codes in the Bible telling us of things like JFK,9/11, and a bunch of other events. I immediately started thinking it was a load of crap and that by putting a bunch of letters together anyone could make a code.

I don't know, what does everybody think of this? Has anyone heard of it?

There's a web page devoted to codes found in the Bible and the Torah. There are a lot of codes, seemingly too many to be random chance, relating to modern times and events. Exodus 2006 (http://exodus2006.com/index.htm)

[Nosi]

It always bothers me that the History Channel puts these kinds of things on, thus lending them credence and scaring folk into believing them. I understand such things brew ratings, just like ghost hunters and Al Capone's vault, but they're all just as empty of truth, and rely on paranoia rather than healthy skepticism and proper research.

Has to do with ratings, lowest common denominator, and keeping $$ in pocket. A lot of science goes over a lot of heads. :(

[Nosi]

Wasn't the original Bible Code derived from using the Hebrew Bible as well? The one that doesn't use any vowels?



Fear not. The weekend before last I was visiting the ruins in Chichen Itza and Ek Balam (Cancun kicks butt, btw. :alc:), and I met Mayan people there. My tour guide was of Mayan descent and had studied the culture since he was a child. One thing that the friggin MAYANS themselves believe is this: The world will not end in 2012.

From the horse's mouth, buddy. You're good to go. :)

Some kinda Earth 'change' is my guess. (Or maybe just calendar change? :P) But it could be so subtle that it could quite literally pass us by with out us even knowing about it as we recover from our New Year hangovers.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Wasn't the original Bible Code derived from using the Hebrew Bible as well? The one that doesn't use any vowels?



Fear not. The weekend before last I was visiting the ruins in Chichen Itza and Ek Balam (Cancun kicks butt, btw. :alc:), and I met Mayan people there. My tour guide was of Mayan descent and had studied the culture since he was a child. One thing that the friggin MAYANS themselves believe is this: The world will not end in 2012.

From the horse's mouth, buddy. You're good to go. :)

Sure that's what THEY want you to believe. :(

[Gord_in_Toronto]

There's a web page devoted to codes found in the Bible and the Torah. There are a lot of codes, seemingly too many to be random chance, relating to modern times and events. Exodus 2006 (http://exodus2006.com/index.htm)

"seemingly too many to be random chance"? Let's see some arithmetic please.

Could you also point out one or two that have actually predicted an event? While you are searching for those could you also let us know if there are any predictions that did not come true? :cool:

[Dancing David]

Yes I know that letters were used as numbers, so a sequence of letters can be seen as a sequence of numbers. What to do with these numbers, exceptsay that some of the numbers are holy, and others are sign of the Beast?

As stated when it says that someone lived to such and such an age then you can find a word.

I didn't say it was useful, just that the bible already has a code in it.

A sequence of letters is a number , but it is still silly. All numbers are holy.

[Nosi]

"seemingly too many to be random chance"? Let's see some arithmetic please.

Could you also point out one or two that have actually predicted an event? While you are searching for those could you also let us know if there are any predictions that did not come true? :cool:

Bible Codes about Current Events (http://exodus2006.com/BibleCodes2.htm)

All of the below were found by different people before the events happened.

G W Bush will be elected in 2004 codes found in advance by Fab (29 August 2004) "George Bush Jr."

9th September 2005; a melting caused you to shrink. They desired a descending cold. code found in advance by Juan

In Me, for the 18th February 2006. He fulfilled My cross.. code found in advance by Fab

Terri Schiavo - exhausted she died code found in advance by Fab. (Found on 20 March - died on 31 March)

Assassination of Rantissi (2 codes found in advance by Fabrice Bect from France)

End of the road for Arafat codes found in advance by Fab

[Beerina]

The irony is that there is a bible code and they always ignore it.
In hebrew letters are numbers, therefore words have number value, chai (life)=18 8=10 (because you don't count the vowel 'a')

So when they say that so an so lived to be 1234 years old there is probably a word that matches that value.

The one I like is if you take the latin word SUM and use the hebrew values

60+6+600

That never occurred to me, to apply that to the Patriarchs ages. I recall that both 666 and 606 (the alternative interpretation) both spelled some kind of "ceasar-god" kind of word, obviously hinting at Revelation being about the Romans, but what does this yield for the Patriarchs?

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Bible Codes about Current Events (http://exodus2006.com/BibleCodes2.htm)

All of the below were found by different people before the events happened.

"George Bush Jr."


Ok. Now do the second half of my request. Let's see ones that did not come true.

If I make a 1000 random predictions and get one or two correct, it means nothing. :(

I just took a look at the url you referenced. Hilarious.

[Beerina]

Sure that's what THEY want you to believe. :(

Does it make a difference? If the world ends, the world ends, whether you sit on your ass watching Dr. Phil or kneel to the gods who are ending the world, there's nothing you can do about it.

[Dancing David]

That never occurred to me, to apply that to the Patriarchs ages. I recall that both 666 and 606 (the alternative interpretation) both spelled some kind of "ceasar-god" kind of word, obviously hinting at Revelation being about the Romans, but what does this yield for the Patriarchs?

I don't know I stopped reading about the qabbalah a long time ago.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Does it make a difference? If the world ends, the world ends, whether you sit on your ass watching Dr. Phil or kneel to the gods who are ending the world, there's nothing you can do about it.

Too true. I guess some people want to "get ready". Ready for what I do not have a clue. :jaw-dropp

[Sherman Bay]

There are a lot of codes, seemingly too many to be random chance, relating to modern times and events. Exodus 2006 (http://exodus2006.com/index.htm)Let's dive into one thing at a time. What are the odds of finding the letters "QWERTYUIOP" in the bible, given all possibilities of ELS skips? I'm just talking mathematical odds here; for all I know, that text string might be found one, none or a dozen times. I just want to know what the ODDS are of finding it in any random text of bibilical length.

And be sure to show your work, and yes, I really mean this. This is pure mathematics, not prophecy or anything spiritual. And please specify the language to use, as that may alter the odds significantly.

[MikeSun5]

Let's dive into one thing at a time. What are the odds of finding the letters "QWERTYUIOP" in the bible, given all possibilities of ELS skips?

I'd say high. I'm no mathematician, but if you remove the spaces between letters from a 1300 page book written in small type...

Those odds don't look good for the Bible Code believers. Excluding your post, if you remove all the spaces, I'll bet you could find that letter string in this thread alone.

[Elizabeth I]

G W Bush will be elected in 2004 codes found in advance by Fab (29 August 2004)
"George Bush Jr."

Quote:
9th September 2005; a melting caused you to shrink. They desired a descending cold. code found in advance by Juan
Quote:
In Me, for the 18th February 2006. He fulfilled My cross.. code found in advance by Fab
Quote:
Terri Schiavo - exhausted she died code found in advance by Fab. (Found on 20 March - died on 31 March)
Quote:
Assassination of Rantissi (2 codes found in advance by Fabrice Bect from France)
Quote:
End of the road for Arafat codes found in advance by Fab


I'd like to see the exact text of each of those "predictions".

[fromdownunder]

People here continually mention a book of Bible length, but if you go to the source of the original program developed and written by Eliyahu Rips, he believed the code was only contained in the Pentatauch, which is much smaller.

This does not make the thing any more believable, and I understand that Michael Drosnin (whom Rips Believes has missused and abused his origiinal program and work) has extended the codes into using additional books of the OT, particularly the Prophetic books, which would understandably be a much more fertile source of doom and gloom hits.

I have read the first two of Drosnin's books on the Bible codes, and in every case except one (the assasination of Rabin) his "predictions" heve been postdictions, including the 9/11 event. And in the Rabin case, we only have his word for it that he constantly tried to contact relevant Israeli officials to prevent the assasination, and was met with a wall of silence.

Norm

[Nosi]

Does it make a difference? If the world ends, the world ends, whether you sit on your ass watching Dr. Phil or kneel to the gods who are ending the world, there's nothing you can do about it.

Don't look at me, I'm debating with a bunch of skeptics on a web board....:D

[Nosi]

G W Bush will be elected in 2004 codes found in advance by Fab (29 August 2004)
"George Bush Jr."

Quote:
9th September 2005; a melting caused you to shrink. They desired a descending cold. code found in advance by Juan
Quote:
In Me, for the 18th February 2006. He fulfilled My cross.. code found in advance by Fab
Quote:
Terri Schiavo - exhausted she died code found in advance by Fab. (Found on 20 March - died on 31 March)
Quote:
Assassination of Rantissi (2 codes found in advance by Fabrice Bect from France)
Quote:
End of the road for Arafat codes found in advance by Fab


I'd like to see the exact text of each of those "predictions".

On the URL I gave, the predictions themselves are hyperlinks to other webpages which have .jpg's of the exact text.

[TimCallahan]

On another thread a latter-day would-be prophet, going by the name of Dani-El, has predicted the divine destruction of San Francisco and Los Angeles by fire and brimstone raining down from heaven. Said distruction is due to hit at the end of September. We only have to wait until October 1 for this prophecy to debunk itself. Unfortunately, we still have to wait two years for the 2012 prophecy to be disproved. At that time, I predict, we will see either a quiet exodus from the public forum of 2012 enthusiasts, a set of hasty recalculations or a reinterprettion that the world ending in 2012 acually meant a shift in consciousness.

What we need to do is to find in a Bible code matrix a prediction of the end or of a great disaster that can be specificially pin-pointed. Hopefully, this would be something that will happen in the next year or two. Of course, failed prophecies don't phase the faithful, but they might help discredit them in the eyes of others.

[Nosi]

On another thread a latter-day would-be prophet, going by the name of Dani-El, has predicted the divine destruction of San Francisco and Los Angeles by fire and brimstone raining down from heaven. Said distruction is due to hit at the end of September.

Yes, and these CT'ers tend to blame sexual deviancy in the human population for the fact that Mother Earth is due to scratch an itch (fault line) in that area someday. As if Mother Earth gives a clod of sod who you want to marry?

:id:

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

On another thread a latter-day would-be prophet, going by the name of Dani-El, has predicted the divine destruction of San Francisco and Los Angeles by fire and brimstone raining down from heaven. Said distruction is due to hit at the end of September. We only have to wait until October 1 for this prophecy to debunk itself. Unfortunately, we still have to wait two years for the 2012 prophecy to be disproved. At that time, I predict, we will see either a quiet exodus from the public forum of 2012 enthusiasts, a set of hasty recalculations or a reinterprettion that the world ending in 2012 acually meant a shift in consciousness.

What we need to do is to find in a Bible code matrix a prediction of the end or of a great disaster that can be specificially pin-pointed. Hopefully, this would be something that will happen in the next year or two. Of course, failed prophecies don't phase the faithful, but they might help discredit them in the eyes of others.

I think that guy is full of it.He is a false prophet.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I think that guy is full of it.He is a false prophet.

Damn! That means the End Times are near then; for does not the Bible tell us that the rise of False Prophets is an indication it will all soon be over? :scared:

[Wolrab]

Since there are no vowels being used the ancient Hebrew text of the babble, doesn't this make it easy to construct words of your own choosing? In English, the letters HM could be construed as HAM, HEM, HIM, HUM, and even longer words like HOME. Isn't this kind of convenient when you need to make up prophesies?

[Wolrab]

If someone were to use a random number generator with all of the Hebrew letters represented as numbers to generate a bunch of gibberish the same length as the books of the Bible used for the Bible code, would skip patterns emerge? I wonder how it would be accepted by believers if there were just as many postdictions in a mishmash of letters as the Bible.

[MikeSun5]

If someone were to use a random number generator with all of the Hebrew letters represented as numbers to generate a bunch of gibberish the same length as the books of the Bible used for the Bible code, would skip patterns emerge? I wonder how it would be accepted by believers if there were just as many postdictions in a mishmash of letters as the Bible.

I wonder how hard (and expensive) a Bible Code program would be to get...

I'd like to take all the posts from this thread, remove the spaces, punctuation, and vowels, and find me some damn prophecies!!

[Sherman Bay]

I'd like to take all the posts from this thread, remove the spaces, punctuation, and vowels, and find me some damn prophecies!!But you will have to wait until AFTER the events to predict them. At least that's what Drosnin does. :rolleyes:

[Wolrab]

wndrhwhrdndxpnsvBblC
dprgrmwldbtgtdlkttkl
lthpstsfrmthsthrdrmv
thspcspncttnndvwlsnd
fndmsmdmnprphcs

There is your post with the requisite lack of spaces punctuation and vowels. I set up a matrix with your post and used a twenty letter skip sequence. I googled the name I constructed and found a woman's facebook page. Using the same sequence I found the word DELETE and the initials SL, one of the woman's friends. I haven't bothered to check, but she must have deleted Sara L from her page at some point.

Wow! You post the inspired words of God!

[Nosi]

But you will have to wait until AFTER the events to predict them. At least that's what Drosnin does. :rolleyes:

But if you note my posts, you will see a small handful of pre-happening prophecies.:p And you will note, on the website, that they were found before the happening, such as the second election of Bush Jr...

[TimCallahan]

Last night History International did it again, another Bible Code show. Apparently Drosnin actually did warn Israeli authorities about Rabin's assassination before the fact. However, the likelihood that an Israeli leader would be the target of an assassination attempt isn't exactly low on the probability scale. Also, considering that Drosnin believes the Bible Code was implanted by time-traveling space aliens, who, by the way, also created life on earth through directed panspermia, it's a bit hard to take the man seriously even when he stumbles onto something true.

As is always the case, no mention was made of the fact that the matrix set up for equidistant letter spacing is entirely artificial. What is the basis for setting up a matrix with x number of letter spaces? Why was that number chosen?

Another problem with the birth years of famous rabbis, supposedly found in the code, is that there aren't any numerals in the text to speak of. Therefore, they must be using some form of gemmatria - mystical assignation of numerical values to letters - to obtain these dates. Since there are a number of metods for doing the particular numerological exercise, these "dates" might well be arbitrary.

Is there anyone in this forum who can rebut the probability claims of Bible code enthusiasts?

[Nosi]

Don't look at me, my math skills stink.

[TimCallahan]

Don't look at me, my math skills stink.

Well, don't feel bad: Mathematicians are among those most prone to find mystical patterns of the Bible Code variety.

[jhunter1163]

Drosnin also takes a few liberties with the Hebrew alphabet, adding and subtracting letters (vuvs and yuds, which do not appear in Biblical Hebrew) to make his ELS's fit better. For shame.

[TimCallahan]

I think the letters yodh and vaw actually do appear in biblical Hebrew The yodh was the consonant "Y," and and the vaw was the consonant "W" (or "V"). For example, Yahweh or YHWH would be spelled yodh - he - vaw - he. While the Hebrew alphabet lacked any vowels until the Masorettes added vowel points for clarification, yodh and vaw were used as the vowels "i" and "u," respectively, when words ended with one of those vowels. So ari, Hebrew for "lion," would be written aleph - resh - yodh. Aru, meaning "to dig" would be written aleph - resh - vaw. Since the yodh and the vaw are quite similar, vaw being only a bit longer they were sometimes confused in scribal errors.

All this is rather academic, however, since your point is that Drosnin is fudging to make the code work.

[jhunter1163]

I think the letters yodh and vaw actually do appear in biblical Hebrew The yodh was the consonant "Y," and and the vaw was the consonant "W" (or "V"). For example, Yahweh or YHWH would be spelled yodh - he - vaw - he. While the Hebrew alphabet lacked any vowels until the Masorettes added vowel points for clarification, yodh and vaw were used as the vowels "i" and "u," respectively, when words ended with one of those vowels. So ari, Hebrew for "lion," would be written aleph - resh - yodh. Aru, meaning "to dig" would be written aleph - resh - vaw. Since the yodh and the vaw are quite similar, vaw being only a bit longer they were sometimes confused in scribal errors.

All this is rather academic, however, since your point is that Drosnin is fudging to make the code work.

Exactly. It's like the difference between "over" and "o'er" in English. The change doesn't affect the meaning, but if you're counting every 20th letter or whatever it is, it does make a difference.

[TimCallahan]

One thing that occurs to me concerning Bible codes is that the whole strategy of finding prophecies encoded, either in the Torah or in the whole Masoretic Text, is that it constitutes an end run around the logical objections to the divine inspiration of Bible. Using the codes, one can ignore the failure of history and archaeology to support, among other things, the Exodus, Joshua's conquest of Canaan, the united monarchy of Israel and Judah under David and Solomon, and the destruction of the 185,000 strong Assyrian army of King Sennacherib. One can also ignore the many doublets and thus dismis the rival J, E, P and D documents, as well as the two mutually contradictory sources of 1 Samuel. One is also exampt from the failure of the biblical creation and flood stories to conform to science.

Using the Bible Code, one can claim divine inspiration - ultimately not just for the Bible itself but for one's religious dogma. Eliyahu Ripps may or may not have had such an agenda in mind, and Drosnin, with his time-traveling space aliens, only had the agenda of selling books. However, we can be sure that most of those supporting the Bible Code are as agenda-driven as young earth creationists: They do not constitute a community of faith, but rather one of faithlessness. They want prove the Bible is God's word as a basis for enforcing their dogma.

[Nosi]

Using the Bible Code, one can claim divine inspiration - ultimately not just for the Bible itself but for one's religious dogma. Eliyahu Ripps may or may not have had such an agenda in mind, and Drosnin, with his time-traveling space aliens, only had the agenda of selling books. However, we can be sure that most of those supporting the Bible Code are as agenda-driven as young earth creationists: They do not constitute a community of faith, but rather one of faithlessness. They want prove the Bible is God's word as a basis for enforcing their dogma.

There is another group that genuinely fears what the future has on offer. We face global warming, wars, and rumors of wars, nuclear proliferation, overpopulation, the list goes on Ad nauseam. :scared:

You can state that problems have followed human kind throughout the ages, yet many of these people do not have such a historical perspective. There are also solutions happening in the wings, as have throughout the ages, only they do not receive such loud press ala Daily Mail.:mgduh

[MINISTERofTRUTH]

One thing that occurs to me concerning Bible codes is that the whole strategy of finding prophecies encoded, either in the Torah or in the whole Masoretic Text, is that it constitutes an end run around the logical objections to the divine inspiration of Bible. Using the codes, one can ignore the failure of history and archaeology to support, among other things, the Exodus, Joshua's conquest of Canaan, the united monarchy of Israel and Judah under David and Solomon, and the destruction of the 185,000 strong Assyrian army of King Sennacherib. One can also ignore the many doublets and thus dismis the rival J, E, P and D documents, as well as the two mutually contradictory sources of 1 Samuel. One is also exampt from the failure of the biblical creation and flood stories to conform to science.

Using the Bible Code, one can claim divine inspiration - ultimately not just for the Bible itself but for one's religious dogma. Eliyahu Ripps may or may not have had such an agenda in mind, and Drosnin, with his time-traveling space aliens, only had the agenda of selling books. However, we can be sure that most of those supporting the Bible Code are as agenda-driven as young earth creationists: They do not constitute a community of faith, but rather one of faithlessness. They want prove the Bible is God's word as a basis for enforcing their dogma.


"Torah and New Testament of the KJV Bible"



The early codes found within the Torah, http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/torhtorhyhwhhrothrot.gif , are also tied to additional codes found within the New Testament of the KJV Bible.

The idea was to prove that these codes found within the Torah, were not coincidental.

But most people are convinced that to see an entirety, one must only examine a portion of the entirety, to see the entirety itself. Thus they are convinced that the scope of the portion of the entirety exceeds the scope of the entirety, thus the portion wraps around the entirety, thus one need only look at the portion to see the entire entirety.

In this case, they feel that looking at only half the picture, meaning just looking at the Torah codes alone, is suffice enough to see the KJV BIBLE CODES as well. Thus since half the picture is an incompleteness, they quickly reject the entirety before having even seen it.

I would inform you of where these KJV Bible Codes are to be found, but as you know, you have already rejected them, thus it is not necessary to inform you of their location at all.

[dafydd]

Bible Codes about Current Events (http://exodus2006.com/BibleCodes2.htm)

All of the below were found by different people before the events happened.

"George Bush Jr."

I took a look at the link,thank you for the big laughs.

[Nosi]

I took a look at the link,thank you for the big laughs.

:woowoo

[Fnord]

I would inform you of where these KJV Bible Codes are to be found, but as you know, you have already rejected them, thus it is not necessary to inform you of their location at all.
.
I would have paid you good cash money for the location of where these "KJV Bible Codes" could be found, but you have already denied access to them, thus it is not necessary to pay you any money at all.

[Ohforf]

Bible Codes are fun to play with.
Example: http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/code/epic-fail/8 (224 Hits)
http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/code/james-randi (9 Hits)

[aviolet4u]

I'm more afraid of lunies in power who want to fulfill those prophecies, even starting wars etc. Natural disasters are one thing, we can't stop a super volcanoe from erupting but the people who yearn for disasters are just plain sick.

[MINISTERofTRUTH]

.
I would have paid you good cash money for the location of where these "KJV Bible Codes" could be found, but you have already denied access to them, thus it is not necessary to pay you any money at all.

It was classified as "SPAMMING" by guess who.

Over 200,000 people died as the result of such truths having been banned.

[RobRoy]

It was classified as "SPAMMING" by guess who.

God?

Over 200,000 people died as the result of such truths having been banned.

How many died because they weren't banned?

[MINISTERofTRUTH]

The truth has been banned by everyone who has seen it so far, with the exception of a handful of people.

The truth has been exposed for over nine years now.
Since then over 2 million people died as the result of the truth being rejected.

[Aitch]

I remember, from about 40 years ago, borrowing a book (quite an old one) from the local library on Codes and Ciphers. In it was the story of a US president (can't remember which one) who had read about some Bible code or other and was impressed by it. So he mentioned it to one of his top intelligence code breakers; lent him the book as well IIRC.

The code breaker came back a couple of weeks later and showed how, using the Bible Code method, he had found a prediction that said this president would be elected. Trouble was, he found it in a copy of Moby Dick. :eek:

I've not been impressed by bible codes since I read that. :cool:

[RobRoy]

The truth has been banned by everyone who has seen it so far, with the exception of a handful of people.

Show it to me. I've never been so much as warned.

The truth has been exposed for over nine years now.

Is it faded from all the weathering?

Since then over 2 million people died as the result of the truth being rejected.

Is this like a transplant rejection? Some bodies just won’t accept the truth, so they die? Maybe we could start a truth donor match database so that we lose fewer people to this rejection.

I remember, from about 40 years ago, borrowing a book (quite an old one) from the local library on Codes and Ciphers. In it was the story of a US president (can't remember which one) who had read about some Bible code or other and was impressed by it. So he mentioned it to one of his top intelligence code breakers; lent him the book as well IIRC.

The code breaker came back a couple of weeks later and showed how, using the Bible Code method, he had found a prediction that said this president would be elected. Trouble was, he found it in a copy of Moby Dick. :eek:

I've not been impressed by bible codes since I read that. :cool:

My wife is LDS. Her family was actually part of the original migration to the Salt Lake valley. When we were dating, she asked me to read The Book of Mormon, which I did. As I read it, I came across all the basic stuff that people have called like the anachronisms and so forth. I did some research and also found that the text used a literary device of repetition (I can’t recall the name), and this was supposedly one of the proofs that the text has originated in antiquity. More research showed where a guy took a computer user manual and showed the same device could be found there as well.

This didn’t put the final nail in the coffin, but it certainly knocked together a few boards for me.

[Sonny2]

Michael Shermer has a nice video on Youtube discounting the Bible code nonsense. Google it, it's well worth watching.

[MINISTERofTRUTH]

I was watching a show this morning on the history channel and I was a little weirded out. They claimed that they found codes in the Bible telling us of things like JFK,9/11, and a bunch of other events. I immediately started thinking it was a load of crap and that by putting a bunch of letters together anyone could make a code.

I don't know, what does everybody think of this? Has anyone heard of it?

It's the same as grouping a bunch of letters together and creating words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. In other words, by the logic of today, it's just a bunch of rubbish.

[Ladewig]

It's the same as grouping a bunch of letters together and creating words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. In other words, by the logic of today, it's just a bunch of rubbish.

I don't know what you mean by "the logic of today." One can take any lengthy written manuscript and apply the "Bible Code" algorithm to it to find all sorts of hidden words. Researchers have used Moby Dick to show that Melville must have known that Lincoln and JKF would be assassinated.

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

Prophecy? Or a matter of finding meaning where there is none?

When people use the Bible Code, they don't find predictions, they find postdictions. Here in the 21st century we can see Lincoln's death. No one has ever used the Bible Code to predict an event that later occurred.


So, yes. It is a bunch of rubbish. But it is not rubbish only when viewed through the logic of today. It is rubbish period.

[Nosi]

It's the same as grouping a bunch of letters together and creating words, sentences, paragraphs, etc. In other words, by the logic of today, it's just a bunch of rubbish.

This thread's a blast from the past! :D

[Safe-Keeper]

Twilight of the Psychopaths
by Dr. Kevin Barrett
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2008/01/02/02073.html
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." – John Lennon, before his murder by CIA mind-control subject Mark David Chapman What would we do without insight like this?

[dafydd]

:woowoo

It was funny,what's the matter with you? Don't tell me that you are being serious?

[Nosi]

It was funny,what's the matter with you? Don't tell me that you are being serious?

Frankly, I have strong opinions about the politics the and a few other global matters. Regardless of the Bible Code, we've a mess that is like a Brontosaurus crap on the economy, the environment, and several wars.

I forget my train of thought on that thread as it is so old so I will leave it now for civility's sake.

[dafydd]

Frankly, I have strong opinions about the politics the and a few other global matters. Regardless of the Bible Code, we've a mess that is like a Brontosaurus crap on the economy, the environment, and several wars.

I forget my train of thought on that thread as it is so old so I will leave it now for civility's sake.

When was the last time that there was universal peace in the world?

[RobRoy]

When was the last time that there was universal peace in the world?

Guess you missed the part where Nosi said he was leaving the thread. :D

[dafydd]

Guess you missed the part where Nosi said he was leaving the thread. :D

But still may be reading it.

[RobRoy]

But still may be reading it.

True, true. And some people can't help but give "one last" response. I typically have to remove my notifications so that I don't get the urge.

[MINISTERofTRUTH]

True Bible Codes are based upon digits(numbers) and Equidistant Letter Sequences(ELS). However, informative codes are not limited just to the Bible. There are additional Code clues which verify the existance of True Bible Codes. In the painting below, the right hand expresses digits and the left hand, which is holding the Bible, has fingers pointing to letters which are spaced apart, hence Equidistant Letter Sequences(ELS). This verifies the existence of Bible Codes and their particular format. On top of that, within the Pantocrator painting we have the Greek letters IC and XC which are the first and last letters of each of the names Jesus and Christ written in Greek. What does it all mean? Well when using the Greek Gematria of yesterday, Jesus Christ's day, we find that JESUS( ΙΗΣΟΥΣ ) = 888. Also when Using the English Gematria of today we find that JESUS CHRIST = 906, and that GOD = 156. Thus 1 God = 1,156. Now let's put these names, numbers, and letters to the test and see what they are telling us.

IC http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gifXC

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/pantokrator.gif


JESUS CHRIST = 906 http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif GOD = 156 http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/spacer000.gif

http://www.outersecrets.com/real/image/3888withcorn.gif

JESUS ( ΙΗΣΟΥΣ ) = 888

Select the KJV New Testament and set the ELS from (906) to (906), and
what a coincidence that we find the letters "IC" a total of (888) times.
Thus it tells us JESUS CHRIST is JESUS.

Select the KJV New Testament and set the ELS from (906) to 1(156), and
what a coincidence that we find the letters "XC" a total of 1(888) times.
Thus it tells us both JESUS CHRIST and the 1 GOD are both the 1 JESUS.

Select the KJV New Testament and set the ELS from 1(156) to 1(156), and
what a coincidence we find the letters "IC" and "XC" a total of (888) times.
Thus it tells us the 1 GOD is JESUS.

( All of the above are done with the "Let search wrap" function enabled. )

[MetalPig]

Bible Codes are fun to play with.
Example: http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/code/epic-fail/8 (224 Hits)
http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/code/james-randi (9 Hits)
Cool :)

There even is a match for "bible code epic fail".
No matches for "metalpig" though :mad:

[erwinl]

There is even a match for "atheist truth (http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/code/atheist-truth)"

If that doesn't tell you the bible tells the truth, nothing else will. :)

[dafydd]

Guess you missed the part where Nosi said he was leaving the thread. :D

I've heard that too many times to believe it.

[dafydd]

True Bible Codes ]

Very funny. The bible is one big lie from start to finish.