CBN Chief Pat Robertson: It's a religious war

[billiefan2000]

http://www.jnewswire.com/news_archive/03/12/031217_robertson.asp

[calladus]

War between the followers of God and Allah?

Isn't that a little like a war over who is cooler, Superman or the Hulk?

I mean c'mon, the Hulk is way cooler - and if you don't agree I'll kick your tail! :D

[TruthSeeker]

but Superman can fly.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
http://www.jnewswire.com/news_archive/03/12/031217_robertson.asp

From the article, this small bit caught me by suprise...

...Robertson, a United States presidential candidate in 1988...

*shudders*

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Yahweh



*shudders*

The thing that makes my hair stand on end is that I remember 1988 and back then it didn't make me shudder. That's what 8 years of Reagan will do for you. I remember when they named I think 1984 the year of the bible, and James Watt's saying we need to get rid of all the natural resources before Jesus came back.

Some of those "Moral Majority" hacks make Ashcroft look like a punk, or at least a Unitarian.

[calladus]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
but Superman can fly.
INFIDEL! :D

[wollery]

"The God who spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai is our God," Robertson declared.
Umm, isn't that the same god that the muslims believe in? After all Moses is one of the most revered prophets in Islam (as is Jesus in fact).

More to the point, doesn't Robertson think that the only way to get to heaven is to believe that Jesus was the son of God, ie the Messiah, and that all jews are therefore hellbound? Or has he changed his opinion on that?

[Lothian]

My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend

[Skeptical Greg]

I miss the good old days, before we had LGB's, when God used to join in the fun..

Joshua
10:10
And the LORD discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Bethhoron, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah.

10:11
And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by Yahweh

*shudders*

You must be a young pup! :D

If the candidacy of a clergyman makes you shudder, how do you feel about the Reverends Jackson and Sharpton?

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by wollery

Umm, isn't that the same god that the muslims believe in? After all Moses is one of the most revered prophets in Islam (as is Jesus in fact).

More to the point, doesn't Robertson think that the only way to get to heaven is to believe that Jesus was the son of God, ie the Messiah, and that all jews are therefore hellbound? Or has he changed his opinion on that?

www.thespiritofislam.com
www.answering-islam.org
www.answering-islam.org.uk
www.answering-islam.de/Main
www.abrahamic-faith.com
www.debate.org.uk/topics/trtracts
www.rim.org/muslim/islam.htm
www.carm.org/islam.htm (
www.floridacp.com/Faiths/Islam
www.exmuslim.com
www.geocities.com/athnsios
www.islamreview.com
www.arabicbible.com


can answer your question on that woolery,but the answer is no.


Allah means Moon God or Devil,so how can the God that Christians and Jews believe in be a Devil

[Martin]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Allah means Moon God or Devil,so how can the God that Christians and Jews believe in be a Devil Out of curiosity, Billie, do you know what Arabic-speaking Christians call God?

[ceo_esq]

I love how Robertson refers to Allah as "Hubal, the moon god of Mecca".

[hgc]

Maddening.... the central issue is whether Islam's Allah or the LORD God of the Jews and Christians is supreme.Let's see here:

Christians - going to heaven
Jews - going to hell
Moslems - going to hell

So why does he group Jews with Christians, and leave the Moslems as the odd-man-out?

This is blatantly political, and any Jews out there who feel warmed or happy that Jews and Israel hold a fetishistic place of honor in despicable end-times prophesy of Revelations-obsessed Christians should take a closer look. What they like about Israel is that its existence signals the end of the world as we know it and their happy rapture to the Kingdom of Heaven (tm). This sick notion is completely antithetical to the attitudes of Jews.

[Skeptical Greg]

Allah means Moon God or Devil,so how can the God that Christians and Jews believe in be a Devil

Your source for this?

[wollery]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Your source for this?

Check them out (billiefan's links that is). They're all pro-christian anti-islam sites masquerading as information or comparative religion sites.

Billiefan you really need to read some unbiased sources. In islam Allah is God, Muhammed is he most important prophet, followed in importance by Moses, Abraham, and Jesus (!!). The God of islam is the same god that those three worshipped - Jehovah, or Yahwe.
Edit to add In both Judaism and Islam his name must not be spoken aloud.

And now a quick lesson in etymology and linguistics. Allah is from the arabic `al ilah' meaning `the god'. In hebrew the word for god is `eloah'.
The two words have the same root, but languages evolve over time and pronounciations and spellings change.

[Crossbow]

Boy, that whacky Pat has spent the last few days in Israel and has been saying all kinds of odd-ball things.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1071541095793&p=1008596981749
US Christian leader Pat Robertson called Monday for the "elimination" of Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat as a follow-up to the US capture of ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200312/FOR20031217d.shtml
Herzliya, Israel (CNSNews.com) - American conservative Christian leader Dr. Pat Robertson warned Israel on Wednesday against agreeing to political initiatives with the Palestinians and especially allowing the establishment of a Palestinian state. Surrendering their ancient Biblical claim to the land, he said, would be tantamount to committing suicide.

http://www.jnewswire.com/news_archive/03/12/031217_robertson.asp
Robertson said this regarding the formation of Palestine, "Throughout the Muslim world the message will go forth, 'Allah is greater than Jehovah. The promises of Jehovah to the Jews are meaningless. We can now, in the name of Allah, move to crush the Jews and drive them out of the land that belongs to Allah.'"

Ugh!

[headscratcher4]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Your source for this?

One suspects it is Jack Chick

[whitefork]

Or Teal Redman.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by hgc
So why does he group Jews with Christians, and leave the Moslems as the odd-man-out?

This is blatantly political...

Consider yourself gifted with a cigar from me.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by hgc
So why does he group Jews with Christians, and leave the Moslems as the odd-man-out?

This is blatantly political...

Consider yourself gifted with a virtual cigar from me.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by billiefan2000

Allah means Moon God or Devil,so how can the God that Christians and Jews believe in be a Devil

So it's El Shaddai, the old Storm God against Allah, the Moon God? Do any of them have heat vision? This sounds like something out of Marvel Comics.

[hgc]

Originally posted by Luke T.


Consider yourself gifted with a virtual cigar from me. Havana, por favor.

[epepke]

Originally posted by Lothian
My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend

My god's better than your god
My god's better than yours
My god's better 'cause he eats Ken'l'ration
My god's better than yours.

[Acrimonious]

In a fight between Jesus and Mohamed, I'm betting on Yog-Sothoth.

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by Martin
Out of curiosity, Billie, do you know what Arabic-speaking Christians call God?

(Legitimately curious) Do you Martin? Is it what I think it is?

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by phildonnia

(Legitimately curious) Do you Martin? Is it what I think it is? Yeah, me too, actually. Is it just "Allah" whether or not it's Islam or Christianity?

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Yeah, me too, actually. Is it just "Allah" whether or not it's Islam or Christianity?

As someone else pointed out, " Allah " is Arabic for " The One True God ".. So if an Arabic speaking Christian calls it anything else, I think they may have a dogma problem...

[Quinn]

Originally posted by Acrimonious
In a fight between Jesus and Mohamed, I'm betting on Yog-Sothoth.

My money's on Godzilla. Not that wuss-o-rama CGI 90's version, but the REAL rubber-suited Tokyo-stompin' Godzilla.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Quinn


My money's on Godzilla. Not that wuss-o-rama CGI 90's version, but the REAL rubber-suited Tokyo-stompin' Godzilla. Gamora will crush both Godzilla and Rodan! Ha! Ha!

[evildave]

http://lyrics.net.ua/song/137102

We had a love that was so bright
I used to dream of her each night
And rush to her side every morning (Whoooo!)
I had her all to myself
We never noticed anyone else
We didn't even hear the radio warning

Our love was no joke you know
It was the talk of downtown Tokyo
We'll be happy forever, I promised her
But just as I proposed
Her feet were made to touch her nose..
As she was crushed by a Japanese monster! (Ahhh.. ahhh.. ahhh.. ahhhh!! GODZILLA!!)

[Hutch]

Originally posted by wollery


In both Judaism and Islam his name must not be spoken aloud.



wollery, the spoken use of Allah is allowed in the Arab/Islamic world, in fact one of the most common phrases there is "In'shallah, or "as God wills it." You might be thinking of the Prophet Mohammed, whose face (and for that matter, God's) cannot be depicted, and any reference to the Prophet Mohammed in newspapers must be followed by the comment Peace Be Upon Him or shorthand PBUH. and thinking on it, you may not be able to write the name Allah either, but that I am not sure of.

Just got back after 4 years in the United Arab Emirates, and that's what I found to be the case.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Hutch


wollery, the spoken use of Allah is allowed in the Arab/Islamic world, in fact one of the most common phrases there is "In'shallah, or "as God wills it." You might be thinking of the Prophet Mohammed, whose face (and for that matter, God's) cannot be depicted, and any reference to the Prophet Mohammed in newspapers must be followed by the comment Peace Be Upon Him or shorthand PBUH. and thinking on it, you may not be able to write the name Allah either, but that I am not sure of.

Just got back after 4 years in the United Arab Emirates, and that's what I found to be the case.

I think wollery was suggesting that the name of Allah ( The One True God ), i.e... [whisper] Jahvey, Jahweh, Jehovah, JHVH, Wahvey, Yahve, Yahveh, Yahwe, YHVH, YHWH , is not to be said out loud..[/whisper off]

[phildonnia]

Originally posted by Hutch
Just got back after 4 years in the United Arab Emirates, and that's what I found to be the case.

Did'ja meet any christians there? If so, what was their preferred term for God?

[Zero]

I'm putting my money on Thor...



Pat Robertson is only pretending to be a retard: he is really a psychopath. The REAL war is between antiquated superstition and modern rational thinking, and people like Pat Robertson and the Taliban are really on the same side.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Diogenes
I think wollery was suggesting that the name of Allah ( The One True God ), i.e... [whisper] Jahvey, Jahweh, Jehovah, JHVH, Wahvey, Yahve, Yahveh, Yahwe, YHVH, YHWH , is not to be said out loud..[/whisper off]
I'll be with you in just a second, theres a gal in New Guinea who is asking me to help return her kitty...

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Allah means Moon God or Devil,
I'm a bit at loss to why you dismiss all other possible gods...

Allah does not mean "Moon God".

From Crescent Moon: Symbol of Islam? (http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401a.htm)
What is the history behind the crescent moon symbol? What does it symbolize or mean? How and when did it become associated with the faith of Islam? Is it a valid symbol for the faith?

The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.

The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.

The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and as you will see on the following page, it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.

Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.


Allah does not translate into the word "Devil". Wherever you found that information, consider the source to be intellectually dishonest and not worthy of serious considerations.

From Translations of the Holy Qu'ran (http://cyberistan.org/islamic/translate.htm):

The Quran in English: with cautionary points to consider. Those who have tried to translate the Quran from its Arabic original have found it impossible to express the same wealth of ideas with a limited number of words in the new language. Comparing any translation with the original Arabic is like comparing a thumbnail sketch with the natural view of a splendid landscape rich in color, light and shade, and sonorous in melody. Scanty knowledge of classical Arabic would deprive anyone from appreciating the different shades of meaning rendered by the occasionally slightly different declensions of Arabic words.

"No man has ever played on that deep-toned instrument with such power, such boldness and such range of emotional effects." "To anyone who has not heard the sonorous majesty of an Arab reciting the Quran, it is impossible to convey what the Book lacks in English, French or German."

...

Allah is the proper name in Arabic for The One and Only God, The Creator and Sustainer of the universe. It is used by the Arab Christians and Jews for the God (Eloh-im in Hebrew; 'Allaha' in Aramaic, the mother tongue of Jesus). The word Allah does not have a plural or gender. Allah does not have any associate or partner, and He does not beget nor was He begotten. SWT is an abbreviation of Arabic words that mean 'Glory Be To Him.'
s or pbuh: Peace Be Upon Him. This expression is used for all Prophets of Allah.
ra: Radiallahu Anhu (May Allah be pleased with him).

so how can the God that Christians and Jews believe in be a Devil
From SURAH 2, AYAT 255-56:

255
Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous.

256
There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

From SURAH 59, AYAT 22-24:

22
He is Allah, than whom there is no other God, the Knower of the invisible and the visible. He is the Beneficent, the Merciful.

23
He is Allah, than whom there is no other God, the Sovereign Lord the Holy One, Peace, the Keeper of Faith, the Guardian, the Majestic, the Compeller, the Superb. Glorified be Allah from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him).

24
He is Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.

From SURAH 43, AYAT 84-85:

84
And He it is Who in the heaven is God, and in the earth God. He is the Wise, the knower.

85
And blessed be He unto Whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and with Whom is knowledge of the Hour, and unto Whom ye will be returned.

Those verses dont seem too far off from the Christian God, in my opinion.


One of the few significant differences between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam is the role of Jesus Christ. Christians believe Jesus was the Son of God (some believe he was the God... others believe Jesus was a spiritual leader, neither son of God nor God himself).

(Quoting from here (http://www.jesusbooth.com/QA/qa029.htm)) Depending upon which Jew you ask, the answer you receive may greatly vary, Some believe Jesus was a Jewish prophet, while others consider Him a false prophet, Some deem Him an enemy of the Jewish faith and yet many others believe that Jesus is indeed the much anticipated Jewish Messiah and Savior of the World.

Muslim's have a similar view of Jesus as Jewish folk do. From SURAH 4, AYAT 171-172:
171
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

172
The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favored angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him;

Christian's call him "God", Jews call him "Yahweh" (that's me!), Muslim's call him "Allah". He's all the same God.


Outside reading, it does a body good...

[Hypocolius]

Originally posted by Hutch

any reference to the Prophet Mohammed in newspapers must be followed by the comment Peace Be Upon Him or shorthand PBUH.

Same is true in conversation.

Just got back after 4 years in the United Arab Emirates, and that's what I found to be the case.
Oh yeah? I live in Sharjah at the moment, where were you?

[LFTKBS]

Billiefan - any chance we'll see a retraction from you now that your translation has been thoroughly trashed?

I mean, come on, how is it going to mean both "Moon God" and "Devil"? That's just dumb, linguistically. And it's even dumber when you consider that Arabs would have to be pretty messed up to openly worship a devil figure. Seriously. Unless you're a racist, I guess, which isn't out of the question.

Look: I have just as many problems with the Qu'ran as I do with the Old and New Testaments, and like Dianetics and all that other silly stuff. But to say that Arabs worship the devil is intellectually dishonest. So let's have it.