Missing the Reason for the Season by Chris Carpenter

[billiefan2000]

What is everyone's thoughts on what is said


http://www.cbn.org/living/entertainment/sports/carpenter-reasonseason.asp

[Nyarlathotep]

Christmas is no different than the other 364 days of the year in that they are exactly what you make of them. If you believe in God and Jesus and you feel it is an appropriate day to celebrate Jesus' Birth, then that's what you have made of it. If are more secular and you either don't celebrate it at all or you just think of it as a good day to spend with family and friends, then that's your perogative too.

Granted there are societal forces at work, which is why people such as myself, who do not believe in the religious aspects of the holiday, find Dec. 25 a suitable day to celebrate family togetherness and all of that as opposed to, say, May 13 or any other random date. But any meaning attached to the day comes from the individual and no one else.

[calladus]

Poor guy.

Christmas is when you surround yourself with friends and family, and have a good time. If your friends and family happen to be Christian, then that's the flavor of your holiday.

If your friends and family happen to be rational, then you will celebrate that way.

I have a nice tree, some lights, and a couple of presents under the tree. My wife and I have already given each other everything of import, but I'll surprise her with just one more little thing on Christmas morning.

My friends all got cards, Family got cards and fudge. Kids of family (2) got toys.

Christmas is a wonderful time for a rational person like me. Best of all, the religious baggage that comes with it has been canceled out by other religious baggage. Pagan, Jewish, Christian . . . they all became a grey/brown slush that no longer has the ability to be heard over the Dancing Santa at Wal Mart. I get to see the pretty lights, do some people watching, and enjoy some egg nog with some good food.

I love Christmas.

[Suddenly]

The only thing that I can say about "Jesus being the reason for the season" is that it sounds a lot more snappy than "Jesus is the excuse to continue a Roman holiday so that we have something to do in the winter, to stimulate the economy, and rationalize acting like jerks the rest of the year."

[Yahweh]

The Reason for the Season:

Presents, obviously.


Personal Note: Due to medical expenses, Yahweh and the rest of the family wont much be celebrating Christmas. Sister Yahweh (oldest one) has bought presents, she has a job and always has extra holiday cash. Oh well, the family aint much into most holidays as it is...

[c4ts]

Margo: Look Todd, you can't just buy the first thing that you see when you enter a store.

Todd: I'm not just buying the first thing I see. I just want to get this over with so we can go home.

Margo: You need to understand. Christmas is not about buying. Christmas is about shopping.

Todd: Whatever. Let's just get this done.

Is it just me, or is Carpenter not aware that this is supposed to be a joke?

[The Don]

There is a remarkable co-incidence that key Christian holidays also correspond with dates in the pagan calendar

So you get:

Winter solstice - Christmas
Spring Equinox - Easter
Summer solstice - Pentecost
Autum Equinox - Nativity of the Theotokos (Mother of God) and
Ever-Virgin Mary

I suppose it's easier if you can seamlessly integrate with existing (irrational) beliefs

Use whatever excuse you need to get the family together. I personally use key football (soccer) games but that's because Juninho *is* God :D

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Billiefan.
Christmas is a great time............everyone gets the same days off of work, so it's easy to arrange family get-togethers. Cultural forces compel us to try and be a bit nicer and give gifts to our loved ones.
The reason for the season? Winter Solstice, obviously.

The fact that christianity has overlaid a thin verneer of religion on the date doesn't worry me in the slightest.

Having celebrated Christmas on the theist side, as well as the atheist side, I have to say, the Atheist side is much more enjoyable.
P

[Graham]

From the article

Before she could respond I continued. "Do you know what the reason for the season is?"

"What do you mean?" she hesitantly responded.

"You know, what is the reason we celebrate Christmas?"

"Ohhh, why do we celebrate Christmas?" she nodded in shallow recognition of my query. "Well, I guess it is a time where everyone is nicer to each other, we buy each other presents, and we celebrate Santa Claus. It is just a nice time of year."

I nodded in disbelief, not believing what I was hearing. I asked, "Hey, have you heard the choir that is singing down at the performance stage by Victoria's Secret? You should go down and listen to them. Really good music but more importantly some fantastic words."

She stared at me with a blank expression on her face, indicating she had absolutely no idea why I was suggesting she go listen to the gospel choir. I looked back at her as I was leaving and said, "Jesus is the reason we celebrate Christmas."

Here's a revolutionary thought, Chris - maybe the shop assistant wasn't a Christian :eek:

Worse still, maybe a fair proportion of the people in the mall weren't Christians either :eek:

Christmas is a time to celebrate and honor Jesus by rejoicing in our salvation.

For Christians, Chris, for Christians.

Although, to cut him some slack, the article is on the Christian Broadcasting Network.

Still, this kind of thoughtless arrogance is very frustrating, IMO.

Graham

[BillyJoe]

BillieFan,
Just for you....

Christmas Song

Once in a royal David's city
stood a lonely cattle shed,
where a mother held her baby,
you'd do well to remember the things He later said.
When you're stuffing yourselves at the Christmas parties,
You just laugh when I tell you to take a running jump;
you're missing the point I'm sure does not need making,
that Christmas spirit is not what you drink.

So how can you laugh when your own mother's hungry,
And how can you smile when the reasons for smiling are wrong.
And if I just messed up your thoughtless pleasures,
Remember, if you wish, this is just a Chrismas song.

(Ian Anderson - Jethro Tull)

regards,
BillyJoe

[Lothian]

Christmas is a great time for allowing kids to indulge in believing fantasy figures like Santa Claus and Jesus. Although to be fair the former is more interesting.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Lothian
Christmas is a great time for allowing kids to indulge in believing fantasy figures like Santa Claus and Jesus. Although to be fair the former is more interesting.

And brings presents! What does Jesus bring? Eternal redemption? Pah! If I put eternal redemption in my kids' stockings on Christmas Eve there'd be some pretty cranky kids in the house come morning.

:D

[pgwenthold]

Deck the halls with boughs of holly
'Tis the season to be jolly
Don we now our gay apparel
Troll the ancient Yule-tide carol

See the blazing Yule before us.
Strike the harp and join the chorus.
Follow me in merry measure.
While I tell of Yule-tide treasure.

Fast away the old year passes.
Hail the new year, lads and lasses
Sing we joyous, all together.
heedless of the wind and weather.


Yuletide: the turning of the sun, i.e. the winter solstace

I love the old pagan solstace carols...

[Lothian]

Originally posted by Graham


And brings presents! What does Jesus bring? Eternal redemption? Pah! If I put eternal redemption in my kids' stockings on Christmas Eve there'd be some pretty cranky kids in the house come morning.

:D Jesus is in need of some serious rebranding if he is ever going to catch kids attention ahead of Santa.

Start with the outfit. A loincloth and a crown of thorns is just not as attractive as a red suit. Honestly would you let you child go and sit on the knee of a man wearing only a loincloth in the middle of winter ?

He also needs a good catchphrase to match Santa’s "Ho Ho Ho". I mean seriously no one wants to be hearing “Whoever does not hate his father and mother cannot be my disciple ” at what should be a happy and loving time of year.

The disciples are human, very boring, when compared to elves. Perhaps they should push the angel side a bit more.

Finally just as Santa has Rudolph Jesus needs a quirky animal side kick, perhaps his donkey could have a tail stuck on with a nail. I know that is stealing from Eyeore in the Pooh books, but stealing other peoples stories has never bothered Christians in the past.

[Keziah Mason]

Axial tilt is the real reason for the season.

Happy winter solstice everyone!

[zakur]

Jesus is NOT the 'Reason for the Season' (http://www.valleyskeptic.com/xmas.html)

[Skeptical Greg]

Christmas is a special time to me..

I walked out of a church service during the Christmas season after being struck by the irony of what must have been $25,000 worth of poinsettias stacked high behind the pulpit in the shape of a giant Christmas tree, as the pastor asked us to be sure and bring more canned goods for the needy during this special time of the year..


I already had my doubts at the time, but I was able to wrap it up after that..

[triadboy]

Originally posted by Keziah Mason
Axial tilt is the real reason for the season.

Happy winter solstice everyone!

There it is! The sun rises and sets at its lowest point at this time of year. From this point on the sun (son) will start rising (resurrecting) up in the sky (heaven) again. The fact that the sun didn't continue in its sinking ebb and disappear was cause for celebration.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by triadboy


There it is! The sun rises and sets at its lowest point at this time of year. From this point on the sun (son) will start rising (resurrecting) up in the sky (heaven) again. The fact that the sun didn't continue in its sinking ebb and disappear was cause for celebration.

Ever read ' Nightfall '.. ? I believe Asimov is the author..

[bjornart]

And the reason we start the celebration after the solstice is so we can be sure it's not a temporary upturn, or that the scientists have miscalculated.

[Upchurch]

I'm confused.

In this thread, we're saying that the reason for the season is to honor Jesus. But, in this thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31834), it's being argued that Christmas decorations on government property does not promote or sponsor one religion (in this case, Christianity) over another.

So just what does Christmas decorations represent anyway?

[Small Town Jesus]

Originally posted by The Don

Use whatever excuse you need to get the family together. I personally use key football (soccer) games but that's because Juninho *is* God :D

God is a little Brazilian feller who falls over a lot?? :eek:

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by triadboy


There it is! The sun rises and sets at its lowest point at this time of year. From this point on the sun (son) will start rising (resurrecting) up in the sky (heaven) again. The fact that the sun didn't continue in its sinking ebb and disappear was cause for celebration.

Hence, the origin of the expression "Many happy returns of the day"

[Gregor]

Axial tilt. I love it. Unfortunately, there are only six more days in which to use this gem.

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Gregor
Axial tilt. I love it. Unfortunately, there are only six more days in which to use this gem.

I've actually seen t-shirts with this, showing the tilted earth and the sun, with the caption "The reason for the season"

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Originally posted by Diogenes
Christmas is a special time to me..

I walked out of a church service during the Christmas season after being struck by the irony of what must have been $25,000 worth of poinsettias stacked high behind the pulpit in the shape of a giant Christmas tree, as the pastor asked us to be sure and bring more canned goods for the needy during this special time of the year..


I already had my doubts at the time, but I was able to wrap it up after that..

Most typically, at least at my old church, the poinsettias were all donated by parishoners, which they were entitled to take home with them at the conclusion of the Christams season. Thus, although the church is far from perfect, at least they were not squandering money in this case.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind


Most typically, at least at my old church, the poinsettias were all donated by parishoners, which they were entitled to take home with them at the conclusion of the Christams season. Thus, although the church is far from perfect, at least they were not squandering money in this case.

I guess, if you don't count what the parishoners paid for the plants in the first place..

Maybe a Christmas tree made out of stacked cans of Ravioli wouldn't have set me off, but sooner or later, it was gonna' happen...

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Upchurch
So just what does Christmas decorations represent anyway? Just bumping my question. What is the reason for Christmas decorations? To celebrate Jesus or a secular-ish holiday?

[DarkMagician]

Originally posted by Suddenly
The only thing that I can say about "Jesus being the reason for the season" is that it sounds a lot more snappy than "Jesus is the excuse to continue a Roman holiday so that we have something to do in the winter, to stimulate the economy, and rationalize acting like jerks the rest of the year." Sigged :D :D :D

[geni]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Just bumping my question. What is the reason for Christmas decorations? To celebrate Jesus or a secular-ish holiday?

The reason is that they look pretty.

[Starrman]

Weren't Margo and Todd the snobbish neighbors of the Griswolds in 'Christmas Vacation'?

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
What is everyone's thoughts on what is said


http://www.cbn.org/living/entertainment/sports/carpenter-reasonseason.asp

The 25th of December is only truely holy if you practice ancient Roman religion which is the day that Saturnalia was celebrated. Some time the christians decided this wasn't right, and attempted to usurp the holiday and renamed is Christmas. In the 1800's it was reinvented in the United States as a family oriented holiday. And to this date, it remains exactly that.

You can choose to put your own meaning into the day, and if you wish to believe that your god was born on that date then by all means, go right ahead, but keep it to yourself and those who want to believe like you.

Call it what you will be it Christmas, Saturnalia, Midwinters Fest, and a 1000 other names celebrations for this time of year have been called, it is a day for celebrating life and living and family and love and friends. It is a designated and recognized day that the majority of the people in this country (The United States) actually have off so they can celebrate with their families, and if this means giving gifts, eating turkey, putting up a tree with bright blinking lights and sending people cards with the simple message of, 'I care,' then all the better. And if it brings smiles to the faces of the people I love, best of all.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Just bumping my question. What is the reason for Christmas decorations? To celebrate Jesus or a secular-ish holiday?

Some info here from Xian perspective..

The Chronological History of the Christmas Tree (http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html)

And a secular view here..
The History of Christmas Trees, Part One (http://www.christmastrees.on.ca/vtfsite/vtf%20copy/history1.html)

Long before the advent of Christianity, plants and trees that remained green all year had a special meaning for people in the winter. Just as people today decorate their homes during the festive season with pine, spruce and fir trees, ancient peoples hung evergreen boughs over their doors and windows. In many countries people believed that evergreens would keep away witches, ghosts, evil spirits and illness.



It mostly boils down to the Xians highjacking a pagan celebration and turning it into a real money-maker.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Just bumping my question. What is the reason for Christmas decorations? To celebrate Jesus or a secular-ish holiday?

Well since most of the decorations I see are of Santa Claus, Snowmen, Reindeer, bright lights, colored bulbs and tinsel, I doubt it is to celebrate Jesus. Of course I do see the occasional nativity scene, but these aren't very common.

I say secular all the way.

[Upchurch]

Okay, lemmie restate my question a little. When Christmas decorations are set out in this day and age, is it to celebrate the birth of Jesus? If so, do Christmas decorations on government property constitute the government celebrating the birth of Jesus?

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Okay, lemmie restate my question a little. When Christmas decorations are set out in this day and age, is it to celebrate the birth of Jesus? If so, do Christmas decorations on government property constitute the government celebrating the birth of Jesus?

I think it would depend on whether or not they are celebrating the birth of Jesus or not..




( Just kidding, sort of... )

I don't think the greenery ornaments and lights can be assumed to be of religious ( Christian ) significance. If they put up nativity scenes it's a different story..

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by triadboy
There it is! The sun rises and sets at its lowest point at this time of year. From this point on the sun (son) will start rising (resurrecting) up in the sky (heaven) again. The fact that the sun didn't continue in its sinking ebb and disappear was cause for celebration. This doesn't work down here.
Here it's more like the son falling off his pedestal. :cool:

BillyJoe

[Peter Jenkins]

Originally posted by Upchurch
Okay, lemmie restate my question a little. When Christmas decorations are set out in this day and age, is it to celebrate the birth of Jesus? If so, do Christmas decorations on government property constitute the government celebrating the birth of Jesus?
Decorations can be 'excused' as celebrating the holiday season. Only when they become overtly religious (as in a nativity scene) do they begin to 'promote' religion.
P

[Keziah Mason]

My neighborhood is getting weird this year. Normally they put up tacky and excessive lights (think Griswold excessive) but now they're putting up tacky, excessive, and religious decorations. One house has a nativity scene on one side of the yard, right down to a cheap doll filling in for the little baby Jesus, and then the other side of the yard has the big plastic Santa, light-up deer, and all the rest. Another house has the most eye-hurting display of unartistically arranged lights plus a giant Jesus banner. Jeez...what got into people this year?

Another take on the season:
"It was Yuletide, that men call Christmas though they know in their hearts it is older than Bethlehem and Babylon, older than Memphis and mankind. It was Yuletide, and I had come at last to the ancient sea town where my people had dwelt and kept festival in the elder time when festival was forbidden." HP Lovecraft

[Dorian Gray]

I am an atheist and not religious, but if I were, nothing would get me enraptured in the spirit of our lord and savior, the son of God, Jesus Christ the Messiah, King of the Jews, Prince of Peace and Light of the World, like seeing a giant inflatable illuminated Homer Simpson Santa Claus in someone's yard.

Thank you.

[Ossai]

I pass one every day on the way home, at least since Thanksgiving. The giant inflatable, illuminated Homer Simpson Santa, that is.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
What is everyone's thoughts on what is said


http://www.cbn.org/living/entertainment/sports/carpenter-reasonseason.asp

Christmas means many different things to many different people. For the man in the link, Jesus is the reason for the season......but for others it can be about St. Nicholas and the spirit of giving...or just plain Santa.

There is so much Paganism wrapped up in Christmas it's a wonder Christians even celebrate it....but that's right...some don't.

I grew up celebrating Christmas in an English traditional family sense. We had a tree, trimmings, presents, Crackers, and Bristol cream sherry, and Christmas pudding with custard. There was no Jesus. I did not miss that. I won't miss it now. My christmas meaning is not wrapped up in Christian dogma so I am free!!!:D

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Yahweh
The Reason for the Season:

Presents, obviously.


Personal Note: Due to medical expenses, Yahweh and the rest of the family wont much be celebrating Christmas. Sister Yahweh (oldest one) has bought presents, she has a job and always has extra holiday cash. Oh well, the family aint much into most holidays as it is...

I'm sorry!:(

As you can see, I am on Santa's bad list this year...so we shall see if I get anything or not!!!:p

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Lothian
Christmas is a great time for allowing kids to indulge in believing fantasy figures like Santa Claus and Jesus. Although to be fair the former is more interesting.

We are not going to teach our children to believe in either one of those fantasy figures....however, I still believe in Santa!! :D

[Ruby]

Originally posted by zakur
Jesus is NOT the 'Reason for the Season' (http://www.valleyskeptic.com/xmas.html)

That's a great link!!!!:)

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Ruby


That's a great link!!!!:)

Hear! Hear!

I can see I'm going to be wasting a lot of time on the rest of that site..

Annapolis Valley Skeptic (http://www.valleyskeptic.com/)

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Diogenes

Annapolis Valley Skeptic (http://www.valleyskeptic.com/)

That's the problem with people these days. They can read and write, but they don't know how to read or write, and so they can't think. It's like they're living in boxes or something. They only know what they're told to think and how to live their lives accordingly.

[Zero]

I'm the reason for the season...everyone send me gifts, or else!!:D

[c4ts]

Yes master.

[Hamish]

Perhaps the point has been missed.

Christian or Pagan beliefs may be touted as the reason for Christmas but neither explain why it has been so popular for so long, particularly in a largely secular age. The most obvious reason for celebration is because having a dedicated festive period gives everyone an excuse to have fun once per year. You can wrap this up in whatever symbolism you want. You don't need sparkly decorations and a great deal of food to celebrate the birth of Christ, or to mark the changing of the seasons but everyone still does it. Why? Because it's a good excuse for a party!

And in countries like the UK and particularly at higher latitudes, the darkest, most depressing time of the year is made a hell of a lot more bareable by getting together with your family, eating, drinking and making merry. Whatever your personal justification for marking Christmas or Yule, you have to admit that it fulfils a useful function.

And if it doesn't, then you're doing it wrong.;)

[mummymonkey]

Originally posted by Hamish
... And in countries like the UK and particularly at higher latitudes, the darkest, most depressing time of the year is made a hell of a lot more bareable by getting together with your family, eating, drinking and making merry. Whatever your personal justification for marking Christmas or Yule, you have to admit that it fulfils a useful function...
Absobloodylutely. Up here in dark depressing Scotchland it's not that long ago that Christmas wasn't even a public holiday. New Year was the big one. Only in the last thirty years has the "English" Christmas holiday caught on in a big way. Many here still refuse to celebrate this "papist" holiday.

A Christian perspective on Christmas (http://home.red.net/fpchurch/EbBI/fpm/1999/December/article5.htm)