Iraq Using GPS To Target American Cities

[Jedi Knight]

I wonder how many leftists would be for a war in Iraq (http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79450,00.html) if their homes fell under attack by an Iraqi weapon of mass destruction.

Oh wait, what am I thinking. The leftist survivors would march in the streets and say America "deserved" it, right?

JK

[Aoidoi]

The president noted, however, that sophisticated delivery systems aren't required for a chemical or biological attack. "All that might be required are a small container and one terrorist or Iraqi intelligence operative to deliver it," he said.

Even though it has been mentioned a few times by administration officials, the issue of UAVs and their capabilities has been largely overlooked.

But some experts say that even if the UAVs do get assembled for use in the United States, the chances that they could cause widespread damage are low.Not entirely sure why you mention GPS in the thread title, as the article was primarily about UAVs. While GPS could be used to guide a UAV there are other methods, while without a UAV (or some other vehicle) GPS is not really a threat.

The article mentions a number of problems with UAVs as a method of attack, not sure why this would be any more likely than a guy driving a truck filled with fertilizer up to a building and detonating it, or why such an attack would even be attempted as it would require far more smuggling into the US than terrorists have bothered with in the past. Why smuggle in weapons when you can get them at your destination?

[Tmy]

Let me get the senerio straight. Saddam is going to terrorize our country with a fleet of remote control model planes. Man our government loves to scare the public.

Whats next, flaming bags of anthrax laced dog poop being left on the white house steps?

[Goshawk]

In the arms declaration Iraq submitted to the U.N. Security Council in December, the country said its UAVs have a range of only 50 miles. But Powell said U.S. intelligence sources found that one of Iraq's newest UAVs went 310 miles nonstop on autopilot in a test run. Okay, I'm sitting here with the Rand McNally on my lap, and I've got an index card with 300 miles measured off on it (I can't find a ruler). So, assuming the Iraqis park their boats just off the East and West Coasts of America to control a fleet of these things to spread death and destruction via anthrax to America, 300 miles inland measures...

Well, the entire states of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and New York are toast.

New Jersey, Delaware, too. The anthrax spray would extend into Pennsylvania as far as Pittsburgh.

Maryland, Delaware, D.C. of course. The spray would extend nearly all the way across West Virginia. The Sovereigny of Virginia is toast, too, except for that little western pointy part that always looks like it really ought to belong to Kentucky.

An Iraqi boat parked off the Outer Banks would be able to send spray as far as Winston-Salem. If they moved it down to Myrtle Beach, they'd be able to reach the artsy fartsy folks in Asheville.

South Carolina, basically toast. Georgia and Florida, too.

And that's just the East Coast. My God, the havoc! Why, that would leave only--um, well, the entire Midwest and the rest of the South like Kentucky and Tennessee, and the North, and the Mountain States, and the Far West... Yep, the United States of America would be dealt a crippling blow...

JK, you are always good for a laugh. :D My favorite Conspiracy Theorist.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Goshawk
JK, you are always good for a laugh. :D My favorite Conspiracy Theorist.

Hey, thnx. It isn't too often, working in the shadows as I do, that I get much praise.

JK

[The Fool]

Boring...

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I wonder how many leftists would be for a war in Iraq (http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,79450,00.html) if their homes fell under attack by an Iraqi weapon of mass destruction.

Oh wait, what am I thinking. The leftist survivors would march in the streets and say America "deserved" it, right?

JK

Oh my deity!!

You mean, all our ICBMs were useless before the GPS system was in place?

And we never knew this?:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Tmy
Let me get the senerio straight. Saddam is going to terrorize our country with a fleet of remote control model planes. Man our government loves to scare the public.

Whats next, flaming bags of anthrax laced dog poop being left on the white house steps?

Well, if an M&M sized amount of weaponized Antrax in letters mailed on the East Coast by the Anthrax bandit shut down thousands of facilities and killed people, what would a kilo do?

What would 10 kilos do?

You can make UAV's with Nintendo game machines. It isn't that difficult. All you need is a nice video-game console and a guy good with topo programming. Then you can fly things remotely into the middle of US cities with no human at the other end guiding them.

So as a security thinker, I don't discredit any information without looking at all the facts and until a professional threat assessment is made.

JK

[Goshawk]

And I guess they'd have to charter some boats to make the deliveries, as they don't seem to have a navy.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/ships.htm

You don't think the U.S. Navy would notice if the Ibn Marjid (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/f-507.htm) were suddenly fixed up, and started steaming towards the East Coast, and then dropped anchor just off Rehoboth Beach, Delaware?

The "professional threat assessment" is that there is no threat. During our current Orange Alert For Terrorism, I haven't heard a single word about watching out for terrorists spraying anthrax, either from small planes or from boats parked offshore or from hang gliders or from ultralights or from hot air balloons or from skydivers...

And this is fun:Peters said in order to go undetected in the air, the UAVs would have to be small -- and therefore would not be able to carry too much of a harmful substance, and they would have to fly over densely populated areas if they want to achieve maximum casualties.

But because many large metropolitan areas such as Washington have air traffic watchers keeping an eye out for any nearby planes that have not filed a flight plan, the UAVs likely would not succeed in a large-city attack.

It's the smaller cities and towns that would be more vulnerable.Yep, all those Leftists in places other than large metropolitan areas, like...um...um...well, Peanut Shell, Georgia, probably has lots of leftists in it, right? And how about Dog Bark, Kentucky?

Anyway, all those Hick Leftists had better start marching for War With Iraq, otherwise their tiny one-stoplight towns will be toast.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Oh my deity!!

You mean, all our ICBMs were useless before the GPS system was in place?

And we never knew this?:eek: :eek: :eek:

Actually, US Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles use highly advanced gyroscopes that guide them. The gyroscopes are very secret.

That is why many hostile states can't yet attack us with such weapons--the technological hurdles are very high.

However, the easiest way is GPS and UAV. Like I said, with a Nintendo video game console, a good programmer and a guy who can read a Rand McNally roadmap bought at any gas station in the United States, you can develop a cheap delivery system for any weapon into the heart of any US city, remotely.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Goshawk
And I guess they'd have to charter some boats to make the deliveries, as they don't seem to have a navy.

The terrorists don't need boats. They can just drive across the US Southern border in an RV and be welcomed with greater emotion than any native US citizen.

JK

[Goshawk]

Right, but then what? See, that's the trouble with all your paranoid theories--you never follow through with a "then what". So terrorists drive over the border at Nogales, set off some anthrax bombs in Phoenix, and thousands of people in Phoenix die of anthrax--and then what? What happens next?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

CNN runs the story for a while ("thousands die of terrorists' anthrax in Phoenix"), just like with the Great White nightclub fire, and the Columbia, and J.Lo's upcoming nuptials, and then the story disappears and something else takes its place. Life in these United States goes on. Ho hum. Maybe Congress appropriates some more money for Homeland Security. The terrorists have accomplished nothing except to reduce the population of Phoenix by a few thousand.

So big deal. They've got 1.3 million people. A few thousand less won't make that big a difference.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Goshawk
So big deal. They've got 1.3 million people. A few thousand less won't make that big a difference.

Well if that was true, what was with the emotional outpouring for over a decade about Tim McVeigh? Only 168 people died there and the media kept telling us about it over and over and over and over and over for ten years until they executed him.

So are you saying that unless the terrorists are "white", it won't be a problem no matter how high the body-count is?

JK

[Reginald]

It's all moot anyway. JK cant make up his mind as to if these anti-Americans are capable of this or are still running aound with pitchforks a la 7th Century.

One moment his uber soldat are gonna chain gun 'em all down, hopeless peasants with a death wish. The next they are skilled in GPS and turning Nintendo Video consoles into bizarre Pokemon robot planes, distributing anthrax!

Sheesh!



:rolleyes:

[a_unique_person]

JK, maybe the US military shouldn't have invented GPS.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Well if that was true, what was with the emotional outpouring for over a decade about Tim McVeigh? Only 168 people died there and the media kept telling us about it over and over and over and over and over for ten years until they executed him.

So are you saying that unless the terrorists are "white", it won't be a problem no matter how high the body-count is?

JK

Oh boy, here I go again with yet another attempt to point out simple facts to the military combat veteran who also claims to have a college degree in history, Jedi Knight.

> On April 19, 1995 the Alfred P. Murrah federal building was bombed by McVeigh.

> On June 11, 2001 McVeigh was executed for this crime.

> Approximate elapsed time between these two events: six years and two months.

Now please pay attention, because here is the tricky part:

Six years is not the same amount of time as ten years.

I hope this helps!

[scotth]

The only real hurdle is getting weaponized bio material.

I (yes, me personally) have all the equipment in my house (garage) to carry a roughly 10Kg payload of material and disperse it.

The plane in the attached picture would easily carry 10Kg. There is PLENTY of room inside as well. As it happens, I have a "position stick" autopilot I could add to make it easier to fly out of visual range.

I think I have the materials to build a 50 watt amp to extend my transmitters range, but it would be easier to just buy one off the shelf.

I have a downlink video system that operates in HAM frequencies as well (actually, this is my neighbors) and you can see video from it here: http://www.virtualgolfscapes.com/samples.html

This is all hobby equipment.

I wouldn't need GPS or onboard computer equipment. I would need to build a hopper for the dispersed material, but it shouldn't be that tough.

This plane carries about 45 minutes of fuel and wouldn't show up on any radar.

If someone can get the bio material into the country, they could buy a plane just like mine (or even bigger) already built from numerous competitors.

[scotth]

hmmmm... where did the picture go.

Lets try the attachment again.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by scotth
hmmmm... where did the picture go.

Lets try the attachment again.

Hey, good job with the plane.

The weaponized Anthrax is also very difficult to make. You would need an AMES strain sample, the ability to grow it without killing everyone in your neighborhood at the same time, centrifuges to make it airborne and then a process to store it for delivery. That is a monumental task.

Now a nation-state like Iraq with all the resources they have could hand terrorists some form of weapon of mass destruction to use. The problem with WMD for us if we are targeted by them is that they are difficult to trace back to the hostile state that made them (except nukes). If terrorists deliver them, who do we blame for it?

I think what would happen is that "some state" would get the blame anyway. It would have to be that way because the population who got attacked by the WMD would probably demand it, and the usual "terrorism did it, not humans" by the US media wouldn't cut it.

But you are right, a plane like the one you built could be used to deliver large quanities of WMD for a reasonable price.

JK

[Pak_43]

You can make UAV's with Nintendo game machines. It isn't that difficult. All you need is a nice video-game console and a guy good with topo programming. Then you can fly things remotely into the middle of US cities with no human at the other end guiding them.

Wow!! :eek:

Jedi,
How do you get the console to fly? (I've thrown my PS2 about a bit but it obstinately refuses to take off...)

Is there some add-on that I've missed for my PS2?? That would be too cool...do I need the multi-tap if I want more than one prop? :D

On a more serious note...
It would appear that it's more than the US gov taking this threat seriously...this article is from October 2002.....I would have thought it's possible to check up on the ETA reference for example

Security management on-line (http://www.securitymanagement.com/library/001324.html)

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I wonder how ...

JK

Since the US Military will be using GPS to attack Iraq,
then one should not be surprised if the Iraq Military uses GPS to attack America.

So JK, just what is your problem?

[UserGoogol]

I don't know if the Gamecube is the best system to make a terrorist thingy out of. I mean, it uses a unique media technology (backwards DVDs) and some other stuff to prevent unlicensed games (and by extension, killer planes) from being made.

Using a cheap i86 based computer would be so much easier. You wouldn't a computer screen or a keyboard or a printer or removable media so you could keep the price down pretty cheap.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Pak_43


Wow!! :eek:

Jedi,
How do you get the console to fly? (I've thrown my PS2 about a bit but it obstinately refuses to take off...)

Is there some add-on that I've missed for my PS2?? That would be too cool...do I need the multi-tap if I want more than one prop? :D

On a more serious note...
It would appear that it's more than the US gov taking this threat seriously...this article is from October 2002.....I would have thought it's possible to check up on the ETA reference for example

Security management on-line (http://www.securitymanagement.com/library/001324.html)

I believe that it is a threat worthy of throwing some resources at. The reason I say that is because it is much more difficult to procure and apply missile technology, especially missile bodies, rocket motors and the critical gyroscopes.

GPS guidance is very inexpensive and when it is wired into a small aircraft by a clever engineer it can be fashioned into an effective delivery system for WMD. The terrorist or terrorist group doing it would have to think out of the box, but groups like Al Qaeda are pretty tech savvy so I wouldn't put the idea into the dead file just yet.

JK

[The Fool]

Originally posted by scotth
The only real hurdle is getting weaponized bio material.

I (yes, me personally) have all the equipment in my house (garage) to carry a roughly 10Kg payload of material and disperse it.

The plane in the attached picture would easily carry 10Kg. There is PLENTY of room inside as well. As it happens, I have a "position stick" autopilot I could add to make it easier to fly out of visual range.

I think I have the materials to build a 50 watt amp to extend my transmitters range, but it would be easier to just buy one off the shelf.

I have a downlink video system that operates in HAM frequencies as well (actually, this is my neighbors) and you can see video from it here: http://www.virtualgolfscapes.com/samples.html

This is all hobby equipment.

I wouldn't need GPS or onboard computer equipment. I would need to build a hopper for the dispersed material, but it shouldn't be that tough.

This plane carries about 45 minutes of fuel and wouldn't show up on any radar.

If someone can get the bio material into the country, they could buy a plane just like mine (or even bigger) already built from numerous competitors.

In my youth I built and flew model aircraft.... We never had motors with the power to weight to fly quarter scale monsters like your pictured stunt plane..... Interesting that you claim it could carry roughly its own weight in payload. With the increase in fuel required as well, mhhhhhhhh. Maybe 10kg is a bit of a brag? Anyway...you built it, so brag away (hope it wasn't one of those "almost readyto fly/crash models)...don't know if they are even available in quarter scale sizes....In the end, wouldn't a simple rocket on a low trajectory be more cost effective..... BTW I have forwarded your post to the FBI, expect a visit soon.....

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I believe that it is a threat worthy of throwing some resources at. The reason I say that is because it is much more difficult to procure and apply missile technology, especially missile bodies, rocket motors and the critical gyroscopes.

GPS guidance is very inexpensive and when it is wired into a small aircraft by a clever engineer it can be fashioned into an effective delivery system for WMD. The terrorist or terrorist group doing it would have to think out of the box, but groups like Al Qaeda are pretty tech savvy so I wouldn't put the idea into the dead file just yet.

JK As one of the many GPS-users more or less since it was made available to mariners, I must say it doesn't take much thinking at all to use one these days. In fact, technical knowledge is not needed if one has normal practical sense.

The GPS system is however not a delivery system, it can only tell direction and distance to another position.

Anything that can be steered by an autopilot combined with a GPS (I'm with such a device right now) can find and hit a target - but remember, you need a missile or plane or whatever carrier capable of travelling the distance with the desired load, including fuel.

I would think that is a lot more difficult to achieve than the accurate position of the target - and WMDs usually don't have to hit dead on target anyhow.

[scotth]

Originally posted by The Fool


In my youth I built and flew model aircraft.... We never had motors with the power to weight to fly quarter scale monsters like your pictured stunt plane..... Interesting that you claim it could carry roughly its own weight in payload. With the increase in fuel required as well, mhhhhhhhh. Maybe 10kg is a bit of a brag? Anyway...you built it, so brag away (hope it wasn't one of those "almost readyto fly/crash models)...don't know if they are even available in quarter scale sizes....In the end, wouldn't a simple rocket on a low trajectory be more cost effective..... BTW I have forwarded your post to the FBI, expect a visit soon.....

It would EASILY carry 10kgs, I could add 10kgs and still have unlimited verticle performance (meaning I would still have more thrust than weight)... but just barely. It could probably carry 20kg without too much difficultly.



It is 1/3 scale by the way.

Serious competition planes are 40% scale.

Well, if the FBI isn't already aware of what could be done with this type of stuff... I'll be happy to bring them up to speed.

BTW, I also flew the Pioneer RPV for the USMC for a couple years as a secondary MOS. (My primary was Radar Tech on a couple of air search radars) Perhaps my knowledge of military RC aircraft (or radar) would be useful to them as well. As I actually flew million dollar remote aircraft for a living, I am probably competent enough to handle this hobby plane.

Your concern is appreciated, but misplaced. There is little doubt in my mind that the FBI is completely aware that these competition aircraft exist and could carry this amount of payload.

[scotth]

The Fool,

here are the basic specs of the plane... see if 10kg (22 lbs) seems unreasonable to you.

*Aircraft weight - 33lbs ready to fly
*Engine - 100cc gasoline opposed twin, about 11 hp.
*Static Thrust - about 70 lbs (over twice as much thrust than weight)
*Fuel capacity - about a quart for about 45 minutes of aerobatic flight... or much longer just cruising.
*Airframe will easily exceed 10g's in flight.

Adding 22 lbs would not even bring it up to scale wing loading or scale thrust to weight. It should still outperform the full scale Extra 300.

Edited to add:
One last thing - I'll be happy to send you a pretty good stack of more detailed picks if that will help you decide if the "Maybe 10kg is a bit of a brag?" accusation is justified. Perhaps you can forward them to the FBI as well.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by scotth
The Fool,


One last thing - I'll be happy to send you a pretty good stack of more detailed picks if that will help you decide if the "Maybe 10kg is a bit of a brag?" accusation is justified. Perhaps you can forward them to the FBI as well.

Make sure you send them in a plain brown envelope. Bin Laden checks my mail and I'd hate him to find the stuff.

I called the FBI but they thought i was an Idiot and they said If I called them again they would kick my arse...Oh well, I tried :)

Your plane weighs 33lb? what class of competition do you use it for? Or is it a thumping big 1/3 scale of something? In Australia even the open pattern ships top out in the mid 20lbs mark, the competative ones do anyway...

And its not a good Idea to PM me your contact details, I could be a Jehovas Witness....

[scotth]

Originally posted by The Fool


Make sure you send them in a plain brown envelope. Bin Laden checks my mail and I'd hate him to find the stuff.

I called the FBI but they thought i was an Idiot and they said If I called them again they would kick my arse...Oh well, I tried :)

Your plane weighs 33lb? what class of competition do you use it for? Or is it a thumping big 1/3 scale of something? In Australia even the open pattern ships top out in the mid 20lbs mark, the competative ones do anyway...

And its not a good Idea to PM me your contact details, I could be a Jehovas Witness....

I would send them by email... Hard to contaminate that with anything harmful to a person.

http://www.mini-iac.com/main.asp
It is built for IMAC (aka mini IAC) competetion. Mine is a 1/3 scale Extra 300S. Pattern ships generally are not scale, they also fall under size rules such as 2 meter where the aircraft is restricted to 2 meters in wing span and length. For IMAC, the plane must weigh less than 55 lbs (per AMA restrictions) and be a miniature of a real aircraft.

[Attrayant]

The leftist survivors would march in the streets and say America "deserved" it, right?

Stop making fun of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

[scotth]

Originally posted by Attrayant


Stop making fun of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

Neither one seems to be the survivor type to me.;)

[Martin]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Well, if an M&M sized amount of weaponized Antrax in letters mailed on the East Coast by the Anthrax bandit shut down thousands of facilities and killed people, what would a kilo do?

A milk carton full of petrol was enough to kill upwards of a hundred people in South Korea recently. What's your point?

[shemp]

Originally posted by Crossbow


Oh boy, here I go again with yet another attempt to point out simple facts to the military combat veteran who also claims to have a college degree in history, Jedi Knight.

> On April 19, 1995 the Alfred P. Murrah federal building was bombed by McVeigh.

> On June 11, 1997 McVeigh was executed for this crime.

> Approximate elapsed time between these two events: two years and two months.

Now please pay attention, because here is the tricky part:

Ten years is not the same amount of time as two years and two months.

I hope this helps!

Doesn't help much. McVeigh was executed on June 11, 2001. So it was 6 years, 1 month and 23 days. Which is about midway between your 2 years 2 moths and his 10 years, so you are both about equally wrong.

[Ladewig]

Why would the attackers use UAVs when they have hundreds of people willing to perform suicide missions? It's asymmetrical warfare. We are spending all sorts of money on drones and UAVs, but terrorist willing to attack us don't have to.

Right, but then what? See, that's the trouble with all your paranoid theories--you never follow through with a "then what". So terrorists drive over the border at Nogales, set off some anthrax bombs in Phoenix, and thousands of people in Phoenix die of anthrax--and then what? What happens next?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

CNN runs the story for a while ("thousands die of terrorists' anthrax in Phoenix"), just like with the Great White nightclub fire, and the Columbia, and J.Lo's upcoming nuptials, and then the story disappears and something else takes its place. Life in these United States goes on. Ho hum. Maybe Congress appropriates some more money for Homeland Security. The terrorists have accomplished nothing except to reduce the population of Phoenix by a few thousand.

So big deal. They've got 1.3 million people. A few thousand less won't make that big a difference.

You point is mostly true. On the other hand, if the terrorist spent some time considering which thousand people would be the best targets, then some damage could be done. If someone stood outside the NYSE and Chicago Board of Trade discreetly spraying people who go in, then it would be a matter of days before each was closed. Panic + the inability to sell stocks and commodities would be a good formula for terror. If someone walked through some Las Vegas casinos spraying weapons-grade agents, then the city would pretty much be shut down. Infecting the passengers on four or five flights would shut down the air transportation system for days (and drive the last nails into the coffins of some of the struggling airlines). If one wanted media attention, then the solution would be to directly attack the news anchors and staff. Twenty-four hour coverage would ensue.

[scotth]

Originally posted by Ladewig
Why would the attackers use UAVs when they have hundreds of people willing to perform suicide missions? It's asymmetrical warfare. We are spending all sorts of money on drones and UAVs, but terrorist willing to attack us don't have to.



This is quite relevant and probably correct.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Martinm


A milk carton full of petrol was enough to kill upwards of a hundred people in South Korea recently. What's your point?

That is kid stuff to the Islamic terrorists who have America in the crosshairs. They only deal spectacular attacks, not fender-bender fogotton the next day type incidents.

Plus they love to always outdo themselves. The last attack by them against us took $1.6 trillion out of our stockmarket in 24 hours, dropped two very expensive skyscrapers, crippled the airline industry, killed thousands of people and terrified the world.

I don't know what they have planned next, but it seems to me that since they always go for a more spectacular attack, it must be something really, really nasty. Something that would eliminate an entire city probably, or some type of regional attack.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Ladewig
Why would the attackers use UAVs when they have hundreds of people willing to perform suicide missions? It's asymmetrical warfare. We are spending all sorts of money on drones and UAVs, but terrorist willing to attack us don't have to.

The terrorists could go that route because it is much more difficult to get access to aircraft now, since 9/11.

Also, many aircraft companies aren't flying as much--they are all going bankrupt--another byproduct of 9/11.

JK

[Martin]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
That is kid stuff to the Islamic terrorists who have America in the crosshairs. They only deal spectacular attacks, not fender-bender fogotton the next day type incidents

Oh, I agree (is that a first?). I was simply pointing out that the fact that a small quantity of anthrax is deadly is not in itself significant.

Plus they love to always outdo themselves. The last attack by them against us took $1.6 trillion out of our stockmarket in 24 hours, dropped two very expensive skyscrapers, crippled the airline industry, killed thousands of people and terrified the world

Why does the order you put that in disturb me slightly? :D

[Reginald]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


That is kid stuff to the Islamic terrorists who have America in the crosshairs. They only deal spectacular attacks, not fender-bender fogotton the next day type incidents.

Plus they love to always outdo themselves. The last attack by them against us took $1.6 trillion out of our stockmarket in 24 hours, dropped two very expensive skyscrapers, crippled the airline industry, killed thousands of people and terrified the world.

I don't know what they have planned next, but it seems to me that since they always go for a more spectacular attack, it must be something really, really nasty. Something that would eliminate an entire city probably, or some type of regional attack.

JK

I dont think it will be forgotten in S Korea very quickly.
(one deranged man with a pint of petrol)

And again you are wrong, plain and simple.

They dont only deal in "Spectaculars", they make little bombs that maim a few tens of people and make you wonder where you are safe. They Shoot men sitting in cars in foreign countries, again making you doubt your safety.

Yes the WTC was a shocking and horrific incident, but is atypical of a terrorist's approach.

So have you made your mind up yet? Are they Devious but capable people bent on making a point using the lives of others, or are they still simple yokels carrying blunt sticks and a nasty but clueless look in their eyes?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Reginald


I dont think it will be forgotten in S Korea very quickly.
(one deranged man with a pint of petrol)

And again you are wrong, plain and simple.

They dont only deal in "Spectaculars", they make little bombs that maim a few tens of people and make you wonder where you are safe. They Shoot men sitting in cars in foreign countries, again making you doubt your safety.

Yes the WTC was a shocking and horrific incident, but is atypical of a terrorist's approach.

So have you made your mind up yet? Are they Devious but capable people bent on making a point using the lives of others, or are they still simple yokels carrying blunt sticks and a nasty but clueless look in their eyes?

Well, the first thing you have to do is filter out the different terrorists. There is no moral relativism in terrorism, and I blame the leftist media for planting that non-thinking seed in people's minds. Terrorists are different in agenda but they are all human.

Now, what has Al Qaida done in the United States that involved shooting someone in a "car"? Sure, I have seen the training tapes, but that is not Al Qaida's agenda with the United States. It may be an agenda with Al Qaida to deal with some brush politician from Africa, but not America. Al Qaida isn't going to kill one politician in the US, unless they want to be viewed as amatuerish. They think we are the "infidels" collectively and want to destroy the entire country, because their perversionist ideology demands it.

Then *yawn* you talk about terrorists making a "few little bombs" and "maiming" just a "few people". Again, I think you have been watching too much TV and have your mind frozen on the Palestinian terrorists with Hamas and the Islamic Jihad. It is true that they strap explosive satchels to people, fill their minds with Allah talk and then send them off as lone wolves to detonate themselves in crowds of Jews.

That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about a completely different human animal (terrorist). Terrorism is not the same. It is not liberal, though liberals try to connect with terrorism "feelings" by thinking all of them must have some group-meeting every month and pan out their hatred for America and Israel there and then do acts in unison. That is laughable.

Beyond that, they are all 7th century lunatics using 21st century technology to attack us. The US is going to have to drag them all kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Maybe giving them all TV's, music cd's and McDonald's will be a good start. Then we can pump in leftist Hollyhoodism into their countries and really do a job on them.

JK

[Reginald]

Posted by JK

Well, the first thing you have to do is filter out the different terrorists. There is no moral relativism in terrorism, and I blame the leftist media for planting that non-thinking seed in people's minds. Terrorists are different in agenda but they are all human.

Yes and they are all terrorists.

Now, what has Al Qaida done in the United States that involved shooting someone in a "car"?

Are you saying it is safe for US citizens to drive around, without a care in many countries in the world then? I said Foreign Countries, not [just] the US.

Then *yawn* you talk about terrorists making a "few little bombs" and "maiming" just a "few people". Again, I think you have been watching too much TV and have your mind frozen on the Palestinian terrorists with Hamas and the Islamic Jihad. It is true that they strap explosive satchels to people, fill their minds with Allah talk and then send them off as lone wolves to detonate themselves in crowds of Jews.

You just wont face facts will you?

Are you saying that suicide bombers who have attacked the US military overseas dont exsist? (or count?)
Or that terrorism carried out against non-US citizens is not terrorism?
what exactly is your non-leftist definition of a terrorist?

Oh and if you are going to put quotes in, please get it right.


That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about a completely different human animal (terrorist). Terrorism is not the same. It is not liberal, though liberals try to connect with terrorism "feelings" by thinking all of them must have some group-meeting every month and pan out their hatred for America and Israel there and then do acts in unison. That is laughable.

I've tried to make some sense of this, I've failed.

Do you think there is some terrorist conspiracy?, small numbers of isolated active units? or individuals? Which theory suits you today?
There well documented evidence of all of these.


Beyond that, they are all 7th century lunatics using 21st century technology to attack us. The US is going to have to drag them all kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Maybe giving them all TV's, music cd's and McDonald's will be a good start. Then we can pump in leftist Hollyhoodism into their countries and really do a job on them.

At least they have stopped carrying pitchforks. :rolleyes:

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Reginald
At least they have stopped carrying pitchforks. :rolleyes:


That is all they would have if they didn't use our technology against us.

The only other point you made that I was addressing was that you were saying that terrorist acts all equate to each other in significance. They do not. Some are low-yield and some are high-yield. Some are by groups with tremendous assets, while others are by groups on a shoe-string budget.

It isn't like looking at race where everyone is equal. Terrorist groups and their acts are not equal.

JK

[Agammamon]

Iraq doesn't need GPS to target our major cities, the airlines fly into all of them

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by shemp


Doesn't help much. McVeigh was executed on June 11, 2001. So it was 6 years, 1 month and 23 days. Which is about midway between your 2 years 2 moths and his 10 years, so you are both about equally wrong.

To: Shemp

Thanks for the correction!

I thought that I had the correct date, but my bad, I did not.

I will edit my previous post accordingly.

Thanks again, you are H*lla Cool.

:)