Who was "Person of the Second Millenium?"

[EGarrett]

Same as the "Person of the Century" discussions...but for the years of 1000-1999 (or 1001 to 2000 if you're feeling anal).

Possible contenders off the top of my head...

Guttenberg
Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Napoleon
Bill Gates
Da Vinci
Shakespeare
Mozart
Hitler

I presume Jesus Christ or whoever the legend is based on is Person of the First Millenium. Even if it was BS, it was BS that had a major influence on the world.

[Uzzy]

Henry 8th and Martin Luther would, in my view, be candidates, for the Reformation and the English Reformation. Breaking the stranglehold the Vatican had over European religious and political affairs in Europe has had long lasting effects.

[jhunter1163]

Maybe we should consider categories for this award.

My nominees would be:

Sciences: Pasteur, Gates, Einstein

Arts: Shakespeare, Mozart, Michelangelo

Politics: Napoleon, Washington, Henry VIII

Peace/Human Rights: Lincoln, Gandhi, Mother Teresa

Lots of other possible categories, lots of other possible nominees.

[rjh01]

Please think of Isaac Newton.

[Matthew Cline]

I would consider Bill Gates' achievements to be categorized under Business. Just because his business is a huge success doesn't mean that it contributed anything big to the field of science.

[Wolfman]

I'd put in a very strong vote for Leonardo Da Vinci; not only made discoveries that revolutionized his society, but engaged in a very wide breadth of study and knowledge; and very few people in history have been more 'ahead of their time' than he was, envisioning and designing concepts (gliders, submarines, parachutes, etc.) that were centuries ahead of their time.

If I wanted a figure that served as an example of the best that humanity has to offer...I can think of few people who could better serve in that position.

[rjh01]

I do not think Leonardo Da Vinci is a good candidate. His ideas were not practical.I have not seen any evidence that his ideas changed society to any extent. His designs for gliders, submarines, parachutes, etc were not used when they were produced. He did make some very good (or better) paintings. Not much more.

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Please think of Isaac Newton.
I'm voting for Newton also.

[Wolfman]

I do not think Leonardo Da Vinci is a good candidate. His ideas were not practical.I have not seen any evidence that his ideas changed society to any extent.You mean besides revolutionizing the understanding of the human body through his studies of anatomy? Creating artworks that continue to inspire awe to this day? Inventing machines and processes that revolutionized production? Inventing tools of both attack and defense that changed the courses of major battles? Working with other notable intellectuals to promote science over superstition, and consistently overthrowing contemporary notions of 'truth'?

The man was a skeptic's skeptic, a critical thinker extraordinaire...I'd really suggest that you read a little more about him.

Oh, yeah...but besides this stuff...he really didn't accomplish much at all. His designs for gliders, submarines, parachutes, etc were not used when they were produced.Please note the whole "way ahead of his time" thing...the fact that he produced many inventions and innovations that were used during his time...and that he was able to come up with ideas so advanced that the technology of the day couldn't bring them to reality...would seem to me to argue more in his favor, than against him. He did make some very good (or better) paintings. Not much more.Sad how modern education gives so many people this impression of such a brilliant man. Try reading the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_vinci) about him as a primer.

[Blackadder]

I would go as far as:

.....Leonardo Da Vinci; .....and very few no people in history have been more 'ahead of their time' than he was, envisioning and designing concepts (gliders, submarines, parachutes, etc.) that were centuries ahead of their time.





another candidate: Charles Darwin

[dafydd]

Newton.

[Denver]

For this decision, it might be fun (re)watching the Connections series for a sampling of relatively unknown, yet critical, contributors to modern civilization.

[Simon39759]

Gengis Khan?

There are some arguments that his empire, by disturbing both China and the Middle-East but stopping short of having the same effect in Europe, actually helped Europe catching up in the following centuries and allowed it to rise to prominence after the Renaissance.
In this case his impact would be one of the most significant in history.

[jhunter1163]

Thomas Edison should probably get a mention here.

[HeyLeroy]

As should Alexander Fleming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fleming).

As should Norman Borlaug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug).

[Ichneumonwasp]

My vote would be for whomever arrived at the rotating three field system allowing for unprecedented population growth or whoever created our current sanitation system that allow for clean city living.

[drspacemonkey]

As should Alexander Fleming.

As should Norman Borlaug.

My vote is for Norman Borlaug. Anybody know the running total for how many lives he saved? It was at a billion in 1970, I'm sure it's gone way up since then. Flemming made some damn fine contributions, but I'd go for Louis Pasteur before Flemming. DaVinci, Galileo, Copernicus, Gutenberg, Newton, Einstein - they all made great advances. But I think Norman Borlaug is greater than all of them.

[Lisa Simpson]

Peace/Human Rights: Lincoln, Gandhi, Mother Teresa



If Christopher Hitchens' book about Mother Teresa is even half-true she doesn't deserve to be in that category.

[rjh01]

My vote is for Norman Borlaug. Anybody know the running total for how many lives he saved? It was at a billion in 1970, I'm sure it's gone way up since then. Flemming made some damn fine contributions, but I'd go for Louis Pasteur before Flemming. DaVinci, Galileo, Copernicus, Gutenberg, Newton, Einstein - they all made great advances. But I think Norman Borlaug is greater than all of them.

Here is a link http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/707-thoughts-on-the-passing-of-a-hero.html

Not sure that I agree with him saving lives, more like allowing the population of the world to increase by increasing food production. This increase in the population has created many environmental problems.

[arthwollipot]

For this decision, it might be fun (re)watching the Connections series for a sampling of relatively unknown, yet critical, contributors to modern civilization.I have all three seasons on DVD. I still can't get The Day The Universe Changed.

Anyway. There's no way I can nail down the greatest person of the millenium. There were so many.

[marksman]

Are we going for who had the most influence on the course of humanity? I'd go with Genghis Khan or Christopher Columbus.

Are we going for who had the most positive influence on the course of humanity? I'd go with Leonardo DaVinci or Geoffrey Chaucer (edited to add: and possibly Cosimo di'Medici here)

[Stellafane]

I'm voting for Newton also.

In terms of the size of impact on human thought, I'm hard pressed to imagine anyone other than Newton.

“Mortals, congratulate yourselves that so great a man lived for the honor of the human race.”

[rjh01]

We got so far in this thread without a mention of The_100. Newton is number 2 on the list. Number 1 is Muhammad (570–632), but he is disqualified on the grounds that he is not of the right Millennium.

[athene]

John Locke is a personal favorite.

[StanBearclaw]

Before clicking the thread, one name easily stood out above all others, and that was Newton.

Then I clicked the thread and saw Jefferson, and it almost changed my mind, but yeah, I think I'll stick with Newton.

[TriskettheKid]

I am surprised at the lack of the following people acknowledged in this topic;

1.The Wright Brothers
2. Orsted, Volta, Ohm
3. Kepler

But if I had to choose just one person, it would be:

Edward Jenner.

[rjh01]

One big question that has not been asked is Do we still credit a person with being 'The person of the Second Millennium' (or at least in the running) if someone else was close to finding the solution? Or should it be like Newton and Einstein where the discoveries they made would have been made much later if they had died at birth.

[Mojo]

The scientific method is the factor that has had the greatest impact on (at least the second half of) the millennium, so I'd have to go with one of the pioneers in that area.

Galileo
Francis Bacon
Newton
Robert Hooke

[mummymonkey]

William The Bastard.

[Foolmewunz]

No love for Torquemada? Bunch of do-gooders.


The entire millenium is just so huge. I'm very tempted to say Locke (far preferred over Jefferson in terms of the philosophy and underpinnings of democracy), but we're talking a whole thousand years, here.

Have to be someone from the Renaissance - and I'm leaning towards a toss of a coin between Da Vinci and Newton. I don't know how you could choose between them.

[rjh01]

William The Bastard.

It is King William the first.

You do know the Normans were very good solders for their day?

Yes what he did influence the English language a lot.

[Foolmewunz]

It is King William the first.

You do know the Normans were very good solders for their day?

Yes what he did influence the English language a lot.

Could you get him to translate that last sentence for us, then? :spjimlad::spjimlad:

[rjh01]

I was trying to say as a result of the conquest, many French words came into the English language. The English language very nearly never survived as a language.

[kedo1981]

I vote for Harry S Truman
Here is a common Midwesterner from humble roots that is handed the only intact country in the world and the most powerful weapon yet conceived by man, and what’s he not do? He does not become dictator of Earth.
Could a Napoleon, A Stalin, A Hitler, A Saladin have resisted.

[headscratcher4]

Some other names to think about:

What about Saladin -- who broke the back of any western attempt to retake the middle east or Mehmed I for solidifying the Moslem hold on middle east and making it possible for his Great Grandson (I think that is Suliman the Magnificent) to consolidate and expand that rule?

What about Metternich?

Henry Ford?

Bismark -- creator of the modern social welfare state?

Marconi? -- Radio being the birth of the modern communications revolution.

And L. Ron Hubbard ( ;) )?

[SumDood]

Same as the "Person of the Century" discussions...but for the years of 1000-1999 (or 1001 to 2000 if you're feeling anal).

Possible contenders off the top of my head...

Guttenberg
Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Napoleon
Bill Gates
Da Vinci
Shakespeare
Mozart
Hitler

I presume Jesus Christ or whoever the legend is based on is Person of the First Millenium. Even if it was BS, it was BS that had a major influence on the world.

Good list, but even though Police Academies 1,2 and 4 are modern classics of American cinema, the incredible effect of Steve Guttenberg's life's work probably wont be fully realized until well into the Third millenium.

[FreshHat]

Popular media from the last 90 days has convinced me it just has to be Michael Jackson!

Seriously, though, it would have to be Newton, or perhaps my sentimental favourite, Galileo.

[Leif Roar]

Hmmm. Tricky question.

My initial thought was "The most significant aspect of the second millennium has to be the Renaissance and the scientific revolution." So, either Galileo as representative of the Renaissance scientist, or da Vinci as representing the Renaissance Man.

Then again, perhaps the most significant aspect of the previous millennium wasn't the Renaissance, but the greater world of distributed knowledge that the Renaissance surfaced in. Isn't the one, overarching symbol of the second millennium the book? Whether the bible, the Principia, The Prince or Das Kapital, is not books the one red thread that runs through the entire millennium and which has shaped it beyond any other factor?

So, in the end, I have to say Gutenberg.

[marksman]

Gutenberg is an excellent choice!

[Elf Grinder 3000]

Christopher Columbus and the Spanish conquistador's.

This was the beginings of capitalism probably more influential then anything towards our current society.

[Damien Evans]

I vote for Harry S Truman
Here is a common Midwesterner from humble roots that is handed the only intact country in the world and the most powerful weapon yet conceived by man, and what’s he not do? He does not become dictator of Earth.
Could a Napoleon, A Stalin, A Hitler, A Saladin have resisted.

Thanks for revealing your ignorance.

[thought_fugitive]

Thanks for revealing your ignorance.

Don't you think that might have been a hyperbole? He raises an interesting point as it was an extremely uncertain time for the entire world. Since Truman was the executive / head of state of postwar America and since the destructive capacity of America in the years of his presidency reached astronomical levels never before seen in history, I'd say that it's noteworthy that Truman avoided using the bomb more than the first two times he did.

However, this is all post hoc speculation and it's also noteworthy that the world was largely incapable of large-scale conflict in the immediate years following the war. I'm pretty sure in the early years there was no arsenal of nuclear weapons and the means for production on a level that would be as efficient as traditional warfare were not yet established. So, I'd also say that the opportunity for Truman to make such significant decisions was largely limited by the circumstances as well.

@OP: I'd also agree with the two previous mentions of Genghis Khan. Not purely because of the whole largest empire ever business, but because of the subsequent fusions of many disparate cultures, the redevelopment of major silk routes with the west, and the ultimate disruption of those routes which arguably contributed to many significant events in the west such as the Renaissance or the discovery of North America.

[marksman]

Christopher Columbus and the Spanish conquistador's.

This was the beginings of capitalismWha?

Really? Because I would think the beginning of capitalism might be traced to the Hanseatic League (started in the 12th century). The conquistadors seem to be the quintessential example of imperialism.

[leonAzul]

I'd like to nominate Ibn Sīnā, aka Avicenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna).


The Canon of Medicine was the first book dealing with experimental medicine, evidence-based medicine, randomized controlled trials,[22][23] and efficacy tests,[25][44] and it laid out the following rules and principles for testing the effectiveness of new drugs and medications, which still form the basis of clinical pharmacology[44] and modern clinical trials:[21]
▪ The drug must be free from any extraneous accidental quality.
▪ It must be used on a simple, not a composite, disease.
▪ The drug must be tested with two contrary types of diseases, because sometimes a drug cures one disease by Its essential qualities and another by its accidental ones.
▪ The quality of the drug must correspond to the strength of the disease. For example, there are some drugs whose heat is less than the coldness of certain diseases, so that they would have no effect on them.
▪ The time of action must be observed, so that essence and accident are not confused.
▪ The effect of the drug must be seen to occur constantly or in many cases, for if this did not happen, it was an accidental effect.
▪ The experimentation must be done with the human body, for testing a drug on a lion or a horse might not prove anything about its effect on man.


His impact during the 2nd Milennium CE on medical research, and by example scientific inquiry in general, cannot be overstated, IMHO.

[leonAzul]

Wha?

Really? Because I would think the beginning of capitalism might be traced to the Hanseatic League (started in the 12th century). The conquistadors seem to be the quintessential example of imperialism.

Just a small quibble, the trade guilds (in German speaking areas, Hansa; the parallel notion in French, Bourgeoisie[1]) of the 12th Century CE are obviously the roots of Capitalism.

The Hanseatic League itself was formed among cities, not individuals or commercial corporations, and the date of its official formation is 1356 (14th Century CE) at the Diet of the Hansa in Lübeck.




[1] I realize this isn't a perfect analogy. Hansa denotes an organization, Bourgeoisie denotes a class. The closest French phrase «guilde des métiers» just doesn't have the same historical weight as the German.

[marksman]

I accept your quibble! Thanks for the correction. The conquistadores still don't really fit well as the "roots of capitalism"

[Elf Grinder 3000]

Wha?

Really? Because I would think the beginning of capitalism might be traced to the Hanseatic League (started in the 12th century). The conquistadors seem to be the quintessential example of imperialism.

HaHa yes that is pretty much my view of history.

But I think capitalism started when we began using gold as a standard of value. I think this was first set by Isacc Newton around the 1600's. The spanish and christopher got the ball rolling. I think the expansion into the new world was probably more about economics then it was about religion. Sure there were examples of capitalism before the 1600's like Rome. But the 1600's were the beginning of something that did not have a break.

Was the conquistadors about imperialism? I think they realized that there was a lot of wealth that they wanted. Religion and imperialism were just excuses to take others money.

Maybe democracy is the result of people wanting more control over their own economic interests. An argument can be made that America was formed because we wanted economic control over our own lives. So capitalism caused democracy.

I guess it depends on what your definition of capitalism is I am using it pretty loosly
here. But before the 1600's people were living for religion and after the world changed to working for $$ and gold.

[Denial]

Norman Borlaug, and lol @ Mother Theresa.

[leonAzul]

Maybe democracy is the result of people wanting more control over their own economic interests. An argument can be made that America was formed because we wanted economic control over our own lives. So capitalism caused democracy.


IMO, that's pretty much what marksman was driving at. The opportunities that emerged for trades people in the 11th and 12th Centuries to acquire and control personal wealth independent of a lord also empowered them with greater freedom. Depending on one's politics they were called "Bourgeoisie" or "villains"--the former term is the one that Karl Marx himself uses to describe the development of Capitalism in the 2nd Millennium.

From that point of view, the conquistadores represent a continuation of the 1st Millennium, since they were responsible to the Spanish Crown rather than to private investors.

[marksman]

on the nose, leonAzul!

[Lothian]

William Webb Ellis

[Elf Grinder 3000]

IMO, that's pretty much what marksman was driving at. The opportunities that emerged for trades people in the 11th and 12th Centuries to acquire and control personal wealth independent of a lord also empowered them with greater freedom. Depending on one's politics they were called "Bourgeoisie" or "villains"--the former term is the one that Karl Marx himself uses to describe the development of Capitalism in the 2nd Millennium.

From that point of view, the conquistadores represent a continuation of the 1st Millennium, since they were responsible to the Spanish Crown rather than to private investors.

That is very interesting, I had never even heard of that group before.

[Doc Daneeka]

In no particular order:

Gutenberg, Newton, Darwin, Turing, Einstein, Koch, Pasteur, Columbus, and the nameless geniuses (genii?) who invented North American Chinese cuisine. I'm only half-kidding about that last one.

[Jonathan Harrison]

I would add Bach and Marx to the names already listed.

[dropzone]

Norman Borlaug, and lol @ Mother Theresa.I agree (especially about the latter), but Borlaug, unfortunately, came around at the cusp of two millennia. He did his work in the second, but it will make its greatest difference in the third.

[dropzone]

And another shout-out to HST. I cannot recall a king/emperor/conqueror who, when handed a strength (STR) stat a fraction of his, did nothing more than brandish it and go back to Sunday dinner, confident that the point had been made and a second bombing would be all that would be needed to nail it shut. And he made no effort to colonize Japan after its capitulation, just insisted that it forgo its warlike ways. Which it has for over six decades. Harry was cooler than most folk realize.

[Galileo]

Same as the "Person of the Century" discussions...but for the years of 1000-1999 (or 1001 to 2000 if you're feeling anal).

Possible contenders off the top of my head...

Guttenberg
Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Napoleon
Bill Gates
Da Vinci
Shakespeare
Mozart
Hitler

I presume Jesus Christ or whoever the legend is based on is Person of the First Millenium. Even if it was BS, it was BS that had a major influence on the world.

Galileo's List:

1. Galileo
2. James Madison
3. Isaac Newton
4. Thomas Jefferson
5. Napolean
6. Martin Luther
7. Albert Einstein
8. Johannes Gutenburg
9. William of Occam
10. Thomas Aquinas (reconciled Aristotle w/ the Bible)
11. Pope Innocent III
12. Pope Urban II
13. Karl Marx
14. Darwin
15. Genghis Khan
16. John Locke
17. Frederick Douglass
18. Hitler
19. Louis XIV
20. William the Conqueror
21. Montesquie
22. Adam Smith
23. James Monroe
24. Babe Ruth
25. Thomas Paine

here are some lists:

http://www.tostepharmd.net/hissoc/top100people.html

it has Galileo 4th and Madison 24th

Jefferson is 10th, Newton 6th, Luther 3rd, and Napolean 12th

Here is another book on the topic:

http://www.amazon.com/Person-Millennium-Galileo-History-Historian/dp/B000Y752M0

This has Galileo 1st.

Here is a poll:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50263

the pollsters picked Sir Issac Newton, Albert Einstien, Galileo, Hitler, Martin Luther King Jr., Pope John Paul II, Da Vinci, Gutenburg, Marx, and Charles Darwin for their poll.

Martin Luther King Jr.s does not belong on this list. Nor does Pope John Paul II or DaVinci. The others deserve consideration.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Ethnocentricism FTW!!!

[Galileo]

Does anybody have any intelligent comments about my list?

[nota]

missing the admiral of the ocean seas
the one man who doubled the size of the ''known world''

no G W or ben f but TJ and madison and monroe and paine why

BABE ?????????????