Forming an independent investigation

[Macgyver1968]

At Bill's request, I have started this thread to discuss how an independent investigation would be formed.

Ok..Bill...let's just for a second imagine we live in "Impossible Things Happen Land"....a land where everyday you win the lottery, every football game ends with an 90 yard field goal, and Rosie O'Donnell is not annoying as hell.

In ITHL, you write a letter to President Carrot Top, and he approves your plan for an independent investigation with full subpoena power. President Carrot Top does have the power to make an "Executive order", but since we have checks and balances in the system, he doesn't control the Judicial branch, I don't think he has to power to give "full subpoena power". Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would have to come from Congress. So how exactly would that work?

An "independent" investigation, I assume, means no government involvement...only private citizens..right? Who would make up this investigative team...who would lead it? Who would fund it? Who would they be accountable to? If they did indeed find evidence of an inside job, and that crimes were committed, would they have sentencing power too? If they didn't find any evidence of an inside job, would you accept it?

Thanks,

Mitch

[T.A.M.]

A good start would be to provide precedent. By that I mean, have the suggester provide some examples in the past of where a group of concerned citizens were granted subpoena power for a criminal investigation.

Then we can go from there.

TAM:)

[DGM]

At Bill's request, I have started this thread to discuss how an independent investigation would be formed.

Ok..Bill...let's just for a second imagine we live in "Impossible Things Happen Land"....a land where everyday you win the lottery, every football game ends with an 90 yard field goal, and Rosie O'Donnell is not annoying as hell.

In ITHL, you write a letter to President Carrot Top, and he approves your plan for an independent investigation with full subpoena power. President Carrot Top does have the power to make an "Executive order", but since we have checks and balances in the system, he doesn't control the Judicial branch, I don't think he has to power to give "full subpoena power". Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would have to come from Congress. So how exactly would that work?

An "independent" investigation, I assume, means no government involvement...only private citizens..right? Who would make up this investigative team...who would lead it? Who would fund it? Who would they be accountable to? If they did indeed find evidence of an inside job, and that crimes were committed, would they have sentencing power too? If they didn't find any evidence of an inside job, would you accept it?

Thanks,

Mitch
I think he means independent of facts and logic. An investigation where unsupported speculation is allowed and the subpoenaed are guilty until proven innocent. You know, throw the constitution out the door.

[twinstead]

I suspect bill's response, if any, will be to present a scenario just as ludicrous as every other theory he's shown us.

[Alareth]

Remember, the only valid independent investigation is one that returns a result supporting an inside job.

[WildCat]

every football game ends with an 90 yard field goal,
Or a tipped pass that results in an 87 yard touchdown with 11 seconds left on the clock. :p

[tuc0]

Only in ITHL is 'football' played using your hands. :p

[The Platypus]

If the 9/11 traitor cults believe that everyone in the media, gov't, fbi, cia, nyfd, nypd, victims and victims families, nist, fema, fire experts, engineering experts, demolition experts, scientists and anyone else that doesn't agree with 9/11 traitor cults, are all totally controlled "shills" that are purposely lying by order of the super duper uber secret and powerful nwo, then what is the point of wanting a "new investigation"?

If this "nwo" is in such control of everything and so slick and powerful that it has all these millions and millions of people knowing lying now about a national tragedy for a measly few bucks and their super duber uber mind control machines, then how could another investigation be anything but a total waste of time?

[BigAl]

If the 9/11 traitor cults believe that everyone in the media, gov't, fbi, cia, nyfd, nypd, victims and victims families, nist, fema, fire experts, engineering experts, demolition experts, scientists and anyone else that doesn't agree with 9/11 traitor cults, are all totally controlled "shills" that are purposely lying by order of the super duper uber secret and powerful nwo, then what is the point of wanting a "new investigation"?

If this "nwo" is in such control of everything and so slick and powerful that it has all these millions and millions of people knowing lying now about a national tragedy for a measly few bucks and their super duber uber mind control machines, then how could another investigation be anything but a total waste of time?

My $0.02


... The obvious corollorary to the belief that the administration is all-powerful is that the rest of us are completely powerless. In fact it seems to me that the purpose of the "9/11 truth movement" is to be powerless. The omnipotence of the Bush regime is the coward's fantasy, an excuse for inaction used by those who don't have the stomach to engage in real political fights."

- George Monbiot http://www.monbiot.com/

[Alareth]

If the 9/11 traitor cults believe that everyone in the media, gov't, fbi, cia, nyfd, nypd, victims and victims families, nist, fema, fire experts, engineering experts, demolition experts, scientists and anyone else that doesn't agree with 9/11 traitor cults, are all totally controlled "shills" that are purposely lying by order of the super duper uber secret and powerful nwo, then what is the point of wanting a "new investigation"?

If this "nwo" is in such control of everything and so slick and powerful that it has all these millions and millions of people knowing lying now about a national tragedy for a measly few bucks and their super duber uber mind control machines, then how could another investigation be anything but a total waste of time?

The NWO controls everything in order to support their plan to take control of everything.

[bill smith]

My fellow Americans.

I have become increasingly aware of a very painful and divisive issue that has arisen on the internet over the last few years. That is the claim by conspiracy theorists known as ' The 9/11 Movement for Truth ' that members of the previous administration were in some way complicit in the attacks of 9/11. Unfortunately this has spoken to that part of many people that is responsive to such claims.

I am advised by my experts in the fields of psychology and behavioural science that this is not an uncommon phenomenon after an enormous and traumatic event like 9/11. People are looking for someone to blame and can be wrongly influenced by those sometimes very persuasive operators.

Rather than allow this nonsense to continue to poison the public morale I have decided....

What has he decided ?

[tuc0]

What has he decided ?
Shoot first, ask questions later.

[Reactor drone]

Rather than allow this nonsense to continue to poison the public morale I have decided....

What has he decided ?



To seek psychiatric help?

[Matthew Cline]

If this "nwo" is in such control of everything and so slick and powerful that it has all these millions and millions of people knowing lying now about a national tragedy for a measly few bucks and their super duber uber mind control machines, then how could another investigation be anything but a total waste of time?

At least one CTer here thinks that the NWO doesn't do it through control, but deceit and deception. According to this point of view, it's very easy to fool millions upon millions of people into not seeing what should be blindingly obvious, so with regards to 9/11 the NWO simply tricked and bamboozled all of the FBI agents, police officers, fire fighters, and so on into missing what was right under their noses. So, in this version of reality, if you put the people who weren't fooled in charge of an independent investigation, they'll be able to cut through the smoke and mirrors, gathering the evidence that will wake up the masses to how they've been tricked, and once the NWO has been stripped of its power of deception it'll be helpless.

Or something like that.

[Dave Rogers]

What has he decided ?

By making a statement at all, he has decided that the old adage "Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain" is erroneous. I disagree.

Dave

[JimBenArm]

If you want to form a new investigation, you'll need five packs of Jello brand gelatin, lime flavored of course, two large jello molds in the shape of the towers.

Mix according to package directions. Pour into molds. Allow to set, and demold.

Now, you can watch them wiggle, see it jiggle. Poke it with model airplanes. Post your results here. It'll be easily as relevent as anything else the Truth Movement has done to date.

[Macgyver1968]

My fellow Americans.

I have become increasingly aware of a very painful and divisive issue that has arisen on the internet over the last few years. That is the claim by conspiracy theorists known as ' The 9/11 Movement for Truth ' that members of the previous administration were in some way complicit in the attacks of 9/11. Unfortunately this has spoken to that part of many people that is responsive to such claims.

I am advised by my experts in the fields of psychology and behavioural science that this is not an uncommon phenomenon after an enormous and traumatic event like 9/11. People are looking for someone to blame and can be wrongly influenced by those sometimes very persuasive operators.

Rather than allow this nonsense to continue to poison the public morale I have decided....

What has he decided ?

So you suggest I create a new thread, and I do, and you post a non-response. Sweet!

[alienentity]

It's an impossible thing to do. No investigation could be truly independent of government, that's an oxymoron.

Not only that, but assuming it is a competent investigation, it likely wouldn't find much that hasn't already been discovered. In such a case, the very same paranoid malcontents who populate today's 9/11 truth movement would continue to rail against the vast, yet invisible conspiracy.

What truthers such as bill seem to want is a kind of revolution where they take over the reigns of power and punish all those who currently support the 'official' story. Just look at my sig and you'll get the picture.

They want something like a Stalinesque purge, a Pol Pot-like bloodbath. We know how those ones went. The zealots in those movements thought they were killing masses of people for good reasons (they were on the 'wrong' side of the favoured ideology).

It's exactly the same paranoid, delusional thinking here, but with no power to carry out the fantasy. Thank goodness for that.

[Newtons Bit]

Only in ITHL is 'football' played using your hands. :p

Where you don't get a 10 yard penalty for kicking the ball on purpose.

[bill smith]

It's an impossible thing to do. No investigation could be truly independent of government, that's an oxymoron.

Not only that, but assuming it is a competent investigation, it likely wouldn't find much that hasn't already been discovered. In such a case, the very same paranoid malcontents who populate today's 9/11 truth movement would continue to rail against the vast, yet invisible conspiracy.

What truthers such as bill seem to want is a kind of revolution where they take over the reigns of power and punish all those who currently support the 'official' story. Just look at my sig and you'll get the picture.

They want something like a Stalinesque purge, a Pol Pot-like bloodbath. We know how those ones went. The zealots in those movements thought they were killing masses of people for good reasons (they were on the 'wrong' side of the favoured ideology).

It's exactly the same paranoid, delusional thinking here, but with no power to carry out the fantasy. Thank goodness for that.

I said previously that this enquiry can be like no other that has gone before it. The mould will have to be broken for this one.

We cannot leave it to Congress for obvious reasons. In fact we can't leave it to any body connected to government in any way as you say.

Appointing an independent body would never have the confidence of the people as we would not know what under-the-counter deals had been done.

So the only way in my view is o set up two adversarial panels. One of well known and trusted Truthers and their choice of a number of others and a panel of government people. Both would have broad subpoena powers and access to whatever they needed to see, Then they would start to investigate and hold public hearings and so on.

Both panels would instruct their team of lawyers who could battle it out in open court as the final act.

There should be daily Pentagon-style briefings on progress beamed coast to coast. No secrecy at all allowed.

This would be the most-watched TV in the history of the Planet and it would give a good chance af a fair result.

[dtugg]

Are you actually deluded enough to believe that will ever happen, bs?

[dudalb]

Are you actually deluded enough to believe that will ever happen, bs?

I have the perfect person to head the Truther Investigator Commitee:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1884047a0f617f071f.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=10469)

[Hubbub]

So the only way in my view is o set up two adversarial panels. One of well known and trusted Truthers and their choice of a number of others and a panel of government people. Both would have broad subpoena powers and access to whatever they needed to see, Then they would start to investigate and hold public hearings and so on.

[emphasis added]

I see a potential road block.

[Seymour Butz]

Where you don't get a 10 yard penalty for kicking the ball on purpose.

Leave Dave Casper and Kenny Stabler out of it.....

[Dave Rogers]

So the only way in my view is o set up two adversarial panels. One of well known and trusted Truthers and their choice of a number of others [...]

That should be fun to watch. The thermians will accuse the explosive roof panellers of being paid disinformation agents, the no-planers will accuse both lots of being paid disinformation agents, the space beamers will accuse all the rest of being paid disinformation agents, the LIHOPpers will accuse the entire MIHOP movement of being paid disinformation agents, and the David Icke brigade will probably end up accusing themselves of being paid disinformation agents.

Actually, it might make a good reality TV show. Have you considered trying to get Comedy Central to fund your new enquiry?

Dave

[Matthew Cline]

Not only that, but assuming it is a competent investigation, it likely wouldn't find much that hasn't already been discovered.

I assume that any independent Truther investigation wouldn't investigate 9/11 itself, but would rather investigate those who had been high up in the Bush administration, and also investigate the original investigation itself (like looking at all the data which hasn't been released to the public in order to try to find inconsistencies indicative of fabrication). They also might subpoena demolition companies for any research they'd been doing into non-conventional demolition techniques, subpoena explosive manufacturers and the military for any research done into developing explosives which are less noisy, and so on.

That should be fun to watch. The thermians will accuse the explosive roof panellers of being paid disinformation agents, the no-planers will accuse both lots of being paid disinformation agents, the space beamers will accuse all the rest of being paid disinformation agents, the LIHOPpers will accuse the entire MIHOP movement of being paid disinformation agents,

I assume that, for it work, there'd have to be multiple independent investigations, one for the thermians, one for the LIOHPers, and so on. Then they could use their subpoena powers to investigate each other, trying to expose everyone else as shills.

[bill smith]

I assume that any independent Truther investigation wouldn't investigate 9/11 itself, but would rather investigate those who had been high up in the Bush administration, and also investigate the original investigation itself (like looking at all the data which hasn't been released to the public in order to try to find inconsistencies indicative of fabrication). They also might subpoena demolition companies for any research they'd been doing into non-conventional demolition techniques, subpoena explosive manufacturers and the military for any research done into developing explosives which are less noisy, and so on.



I assume that, for it work, there'd have to be multiple independent investigations, one for the thermians, one for the LIOHPers, and so on. Then they could use their subpoena powers to investigate each other, trying to expose everyone else as shills.
This investigation as I have roughly outlined it will not have to take very long. We already know most of what we need to see and who we need to put on the witness stand.

The government panel will have little to do as their case is already fully made and cannot be significantly changed. They will just have to wait for the Truth Panel to extract the facts and set the proofs in stone.

[fourtoe]

I always hear, "6 out of 10 of the ppl on the 911CR...." when ever I talk to Truthers. Would they be fine with those 6 ppl that they're referencing being apart of the new investigation?

JREF Truthers come on and post who you'd like to see doing the investigation, this is actually an interesting subject.

[bill smith]

[emphasis added]

I see a potential road block.

It only matters who we trust, not who you trust.

[MRC_Hans]

I said previously that this enquiry can be like no other that has gone before it. The mould will have to be broken for this one.

We cannot leave it to Congress for obvious reasons. In fact we can't leave it to any body connected to government in any way as you say.

Well, that can be discussed, but let us leave that for now.

Appointing an independent body would never have the confidence of the people as we would not know what under-the-counter deals had been done.

The people? Which people? Do you mean The People? I have news for you: The People has confidence in the government, at least on this account. Slightly less that half The People voted for the Bush administration to continue. Slightly more than half The People voted for somebody who has declared his confidence in the Bush administration in this particular case.

So the only ones who don't have confidence is a small, very mixed group of truthers.

So the only way in my view is o set up two adversarial panels. One of well known and trusted Truthers and their choice of a number of others and a panel of government people.

OK; I have a suggestion: You start by assembling a panel of 'trusted truthers' and come back with a name list. Then we can take it from there. Do make sure all truthers agree on your panel, because if not, how should The People trust them?

Hans

[Matthew Cline]

This investigation as I have roughly outlined it will not have to take very long. We already know most of what we need to see and who we need to put on the witness stand.

1a) What do you need to see?

1b) How could you be sure that the evidence you'd see wasn't fabricated or altered to match the "official story"?

2a) Who would need to be questioned?

2b) Why would people who participated in the murder of 3,000 suddenly start telling the truth when put under oath? Are you going to use (unreliable) lie detectors and truth serum to prevent them from lying?

[dtugg]

bs, how disappointing will it be to live your whole life and never get your New InvestigationTM? I hope it will be absolutely devastating. The thought brings a smile to my face.

[bill smith]

1a) What do you need to see?

1b) How could you be sure that the evidence you'd see wasn't fabricated or altered to match the "official story"?

2a) Who would need to be questioned?

2b) Why would people who participated in the murder of 3,000 suddenly start telling the truth when put under oath? Are you going to use (unreliable) lie detectors and truth serum to prevent them from lying?
Our experts would want to exmine all the impounded material evidence and video footage,photographs and so on. We would subpoena the numerical data and the assumptions that NIST used to perform thir computer model of the collpse of WTC7.

The people on the stand ? We might offer them immunity from prosecution in return for spilling the beans or make some deal with them. A lot of people are reluctant to lie under oath too. We have lots of ways to go with this.

[bill smith]

bs, how disappointing will it be to live your whole life and never get your New InvestigationTM? I hope it will be absolutely devastating. The thought brings a smile to my face.

A stuffed smile I expect. lol

[Caustic Logic]

I said previously that this enquiry can be like no other that has gone before it. The mould will have to be broken for this one.


Lame. So you're NOT going to do JBA's jello towers experiment then? Well what's even the point then?

In general, those who still "want answers" are the same folks who'll never accept anything that emerges from the actual evidence. NO ONE is or should be interested in spending any time, money, or anything on such a futile effort. They could either lie and tell the Twoofers they were right all along, or bear the name-calling scorn and possibly worse for "stonewalling" them out of the loop by siding with reality.

There are areas of reasonable discussion still unresolved, but so few people even know what these are they'd call any such panel a "coverup." Ditn' even mention the Citgo station!

[dtugg]

A lot of people are reluctant to lie under oath too. We have lots of ways to go with this.

Murder 3,000 people. No problem. Lie under oath. Never.

Makes perfect sense. In insane twoofer fantasyland, that is.

[Matthew Cline]

The people on the stand ? We might offer them immunity from prosecution in return for spilling the beans or make some deal with them.

So, not only would the independent investigation have to have subpoena powers, but the power to offer immunity, and the ability to offer a witness protection program to those willing to spill the beans. A witness protection program which would itself be independent of the government.

A lot of people are reluctant to lie under oath too.

People who are evil enough to participate in the murder of 3,000 people aren't going to have any problem with lying under oath.

[bill smith]

Murder 3,000 people. No problem. Lie under oath. Never.

Makes perfect sense. In insane twoofer fantasyland, that is.A lot of people were just factotums in this. Then they were gagged and watched. I think that this will offer many of them an opportunity to get a heavy weight off their minds.

[dtugg]

A lot of people were just factotums in this. Then they were gagged and watched. I think that this will offer many of them an opportunity to get a heavy weight off their minds.

If it's such a heavy weight they could get if off their shoulders now. Oddly enough, it's been eight years and no whistleblowers. This is because they are afraid for their lives, right? Why would this change in in the event of your new investigation? Do you think your merry band of morons would be able to protect these people from the NWO? 'Cause I can tell you right now, that we would just kill them.

[bill smith]

If it's such a heavy weight they could get if off their shoulders now. Oddly enough, it's been eight years and no whistleblowers. This is because they are afraid for their lives, right? Why would this change in in the event of your new investigation? Do you think your merry band of morons would be able to protect these people from the NWO? 'Cause I can tell you right now, that we would just kill them.

On the contrary there have been hundreds if not thousands of whistleblowers including senior government people, miltary generals, FBI, CiA, Scientists and on and on. I have long lists of them.

[dtugg]

On the contrary there have been hundreds if not thousands of whistleblowers including senior government people, miltary generals, Scientists and on and on. I have long lists of them.

You apparently don't know what the term "whistleblower means." I'll enlighten you: It's someone who was involved with or has direct knowledge of the conspiracy and spilled the beans. I can assure you that there hasn't been one. But if there was, we would have taken care of that person.

[bill smith]

You apparently don't know what the term "whistleblower means." I'll enlighten you: It's someone who was involved with or has direct knowledge of the conspiracy and spilled the beans. I can assure you that there hasn't been one. But if there was, we would have taken care of that person.

Start a thread if you want to get into this. In the meantime we are trying to set up a bulletproof system or as close s possible for keepng a new 9/11 enquiry honest and free from corruption.

[dtugg]

Start a thread if you want to get into this. In the meantime we are trying to set up a bulletproof system or as close s possible for keepng a new 9/11 enquiry honest and free from corruption.

OK.

Why don't you tell me what twoofer morons could possibly do to protect the people that you think you could get to spill the beans. Do you really think that you can protect them from us? The NWO is evil and virtually all powerful after all.

[MRC_Hans]

Our experts would want to exmine all the impounded material evidence and video footage,photographs and so on. We would subpoena the numerical data and the assumptions that NIST used to perform thir computer model of the collpse of WTC7.

The people on the stand ? We might offer them immunity from prosecution in return for spilling the beans or make some deal with them. A lot of people are reluctant to lie under oath too. We have lots of ways to go with this."We"? We who?

... And which experts? :D

Hans

[T.A.M.]

So, not only would the independent investigation have to have subpoena powers, but the power to offer immunity, and the ability to offer a witness protection program to those willing to spill the beans. A witness protection program which would itself be independent of the government.



People who are evil enough to participate in the murder of 3,000 people aren't going to have any problem with lying under oath.

See...what better way then to insure the continuation (forever) of requesting an independent investigation, then to make it (A) independent of government, and (B) granted Super-powers. With the bar so high, anyone who asks for such a committee and investigation obviously wants nothing of the sort to actually occur, but rather simply wants to be able to shout for it to happen from the rooftops FOREVER.

That or they are clinically insane.

TAM:)

[Dave Rogers]

"We"? We who?

Heiwa and bill smith, of course. Who else matters?

... And which experts? :D

See above.

Dave

[Sam.I.Am]

I'm going with clinically insane. Is "Conspiracy Theorist" in DSM IV?

[EnJaySee]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing BS's format.

They could ask Simon Cowell on the format of the show. In fact, he should be the adjudicator.

[Mashuna]

Our experts would want to exmine all the impounded material evidence and video footage,photographs and so on. We would subpoena the numerical data and the assumptions that NIST used to perform thir computer model of the collpse of WTC7.


You'd require actual experts for this though, not truther 'experts'.

[zorro99]

A good start would be to provide precedent. By that I mean, have the suggester provide some examples in the past of where a group of concerned citizens were granted subpoena power for a criminal investigation.

Then we can go from there.

TAM:)

How about the Committee of Public Safety under Robespierre in Revolutionary France, aka, "The Terror?"

[nicepants]

So the only way in my view is o set up two adversarial panels. One of well known and trusted Truthers and their choice of a number of others and a panel of government people. Both would have broad subpoena powers and access to whatever they needed to see, Then they would start to investigate and hold public hearings and so on.

Both panels would instruct their team of lawyers who could battle it out in open court as the final act.

And at the conclusion of this "battle", who determines which panel has "won" the battle?

[JimBenArm]

And at the conclusion of this "battle", who determines which panel has "won" the battle?
They would have a phone-in, like on America's Got Talent. The top four would go through to the next round, with one judge's pick.
What better way to do this than a popularity contest? After all, their fantasies have nothing to do with fact, so why the hell not? Let's do it!

We can call it "America's Got Delusions!"

[Macgyver1968]

"America's Got Delusions!"


Brought to you by makers of Lithium...and by..."Huggie-Max" brand straight jackets...when only the finest will do.


Dude...what an excellent idea for a show. It would blow "big brother" out of the water on ratings.

[funk de fino]

On the contrary there have been hundreds if not thousands of whistleblowers including senior government people, miltary generals, FBI, CiA, Scientists and on and on. I have long lists of them.

Give us the list of thousands then.

[stateofgrace]

Start a thread if you want to get into this. In the meantime we are trying to set up a bulletproof system or as close s possible for keepng a new 9/11 enquiry honest and free from corruption.

You know something Bill, it's posts like this that remind me of a short science fiction story I read awhile ago, I'm sorry I honestly can't remember the name, oh I wish I could.

Basically the entire story was about a bunch of courageous warriors, who were holed up on a deserted planet. They were surrounded by hostile aliens. Every night they would man the fortress walls, they would power up the spot lights, watch the radar screens for signs of enemy movement. Every once in a while a fires fight would erupt. The brave warriors would unleash a hail storm of bullets at the unseen enemy. After each skirmish a couple of courageous warriors were dispatched from the fortress to recover a body of one of the hostile aliens. But no bodies were ever found, nothing was ever recovered. Patrols were sent out to try and find the enemy stronghold, spy on them or even capture one of them, they never saw any sign of them. They concluded they must be up against a formidable, well organised foe.

So the brave warriors would man the fort, make plans to maybe launch an offensive rather than be defensive all the time. And all the while they were in communications with their superiors asking for orders, pleading for bigger and better armaments and for extra men to be sent. None ever came; occasionally a ship from off world would fly over head and drop vital supplies but never any weapons or reinforcements. They felt abandoned but knew they were right to fight, they had to keep fighting.

Want to know the kicker, Bill? There was no enemy; they were not surrounded by hostile aliens. They were a bunch of paranoid schizophrenics, who while being transported to a more secure off world facility, had crash landed on a deserted planet. The fortress had been deserted decades ago and was not really a fortress it was an old mining facility. The only ammo they had was from the guards who had been killed in the crash. As for the ship that dropped the supplies off regularly, that was just a token gesture from the rest of humanity who decided rather than rescue them, it would be best to simply leave them to it.They were no danger to anybody other than themselves. Humanity had simply abandoned them. As for the war they believed they were waging, it was all inside their heads.

Bit like the you and the TM really.

[nicepants]

They would have a phone-in, like on America's Got Talent. The top four would go through to the next round, with one judge's pick.
What better way to do this than a popularity contest? After all, their fantasies have nothing to do with fact, so why the hell not? Let's do it!

We can call it "America's Got Delusions!"

Ironic, really, that some of these talentless people who go on those shows and are convinced that they're great singers remind me a lot of the way truthers act. When the judges tell them that they're no good they can't possibly believe it, therefore the judges must be wrong....even though they do this for a living.

[bill smith]

You know something Bill, it's posts like this that remind me of a short science fiction story I read awhile ago, I'm sorry I honestly can't remember the name, oh I wish I could.

Basically the entire story was about a bunch of courageous warriors, who were holed up on a deserted planet. They were surrounded by hostile aliens. Every night they would man the fortress walls, they would power up the spot lights, watch the radar screens for signs of enemy movement. Every once in a while a fires fight would erupt. The brave warriors would unleash a hail storm of bullets at the unseen enemy. After each skirmish a couple of courageous warriors were dispatched from the fortress to recover a body of one of the hostile aliens. But no bodies were ever found, nothing was ever recovered. Patrols were sent out to try and find the enemy stronghold, spy on them or even capture one of them, they never saw any sign of them. They concluded they must be up against a formidable, well organised foe.

So the brave warriors would man the fort, make plans to maybe launch an offensive rather than be defensive all the time. And all the while they were in communications with their superiors asking for orders, pleading for bigger and better armaments and for extra men to be sent. None ever came; occasionally a ship from off world would fly over head and drop vital supplies but never any weapons or reinforcements. They felt abandoned but knew they were right to fight, they had to keep fighting.

Want to know the kicker, Bill? There was no enemy; they were not surrounded by hostile aliens. They were a bunch of paranoid schizophrenics, who while being transported to a more secure off world facility, had crash landed on a deserted planet. The fortress had been deserted decades ago and was not really a fortress it was an old mining facility. The only ammo they had was from the guards who had been killed in the crash. As for the ship that dropped the supplies off regularly, that was just a token gesture from the rest of humanity who decided rather than rescue them, it would be best to simply leave them to it.They were no danger to anybody other than themselves. Humanity had simply abandoned them. As for the war they believed they were waging, it was all inside their heads.

Bit like the you and the TM really.

i thought the resemblence to Al-Quaeda was uncanny...

' Want to know the kicker, Bill? There was no enemy; they were not surrounded by hostile aliens...'

[stateofgrace]

i thought the resemblence to Al-Quaeda was uncanny...

' Want to know the kicker, Bill? There was no enemy; they were not surrounded by hostile aliens...'

If it helps you to wage your make believe war keep saying that Bill. I am sure the rest of your warriors in Fortress Paranoia will all agree with you.

The rest of humanity understands the dangers of extremism and that it is very real.

[dafydd]

You'd require actual experts for this though, not truther 'experts'.

There's the rub for Bill and his ilk.

[CompusMentus]

i thought the resemblence to Al-Quaeda was uncanny...
' Want to know the kicker, Bill? There was no enemy; they were not surrounded by hostile aliens...'



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/344914aafdf4ede69a.gif ('http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17570')


Compus

[CHF]

Over the last few years I've started several threads on this issue and never get a full answer from truthers.

a) who funds the new invetsigation?

b) who testifies (and who does not)?

c) who passes final judgment?

Most truthers answer...

a) tax dollars (ie the very covernment they accuse of staging 911)

b) Steven Jones, Richard Gage, and all the FDNY who truthers claim heard demolition "exploisions,

c) no specific answers yet.

[bill smith]

Over the last few years I've started several threads on this issue and never get a full answer from truthers.

a) who funds the new invetsigation?

b) who testifies (and who does not)?

c) who passes final judgment?

Most truthers answer...

a) tax dollars (ie the very covernment they accuse of staging 911)

b) Steven Jones, Richard Gage, and all the FDNY who truthers claim heard demolition "exploisions,

c) no specific answers yet.

Read back through the thread.

Tax dollars fund the investigation.

Who testifies ? Whoever the Panels subpoena.

It would be decided in open court on live TV.

[CHF]

Who testifies ? Whoever the Panels subpoena.

Who should be on the panel?

It would be decided in open court on live TV.

Decided by who? The viewers?

And by having the GOVERNMENT in charge of funding are you intentionally leaving yourself an opportunity to dismiss the investigation if you don't like the result?

[bill smith]

Who should be on the panel?



Decided by who? The viewers?

And by having the GOVERNMENT in charge of funding are you intentionally leaving yourself an opportunity to dismiss the investigation if you don't like the result?

We would probably need a politician on our panel as Chairman to give us the legal status of a committee. I think there are one or two who night be suitable.

The judges would judge under the scrutiny of the entire population of the world. That might help to keep them honest.

I would peronally be unlikely to believe an innocent verdict but there somes a time when believe or not I would have to draw a line under it.

[HyJinX]

Guilty until proven innocent. Nice Bill. Way to go.

[T.A.M.]

I think for our hypothetical commission for a new investigation, we should enlist the following:

1. Superman
2. Jesus Christ
3. Satan (to keep Jesus honest)
4. Santa Claus
5. Albert Einstein
6. Alexander the Great

Anyone want to suggest anyone else? I mean the above list is as rational and plausible as Bill's.

TAM:D

[CHF]

We would probably need a politician on our panel as Chairman to give us the legal status of a committee. I think there are one or two who night be suitable.

The judges would judge under the scrutiny of the entire population of the world. That might help to keep them honest.

I would peronally be unlikely to believe an innocent verdict but there somes a time when believe or not I would have to draw a line under it.

For the love of God, WHO????

WHO passes final judgment on this investigation? Give me names, not "a politician" or "a judge."

Why is this such a hard question for truthers to answer?

You people have been fantasyzing about this new investigation for over 4 years now. Surely you must have SOME idea of who you'd put in charge of deciding the end result of the bloody thing.

Just be honest with us, Bill. You want Steven Jones, Richard Gage and Willy Rodriguez to present "evidence" and you want DR Griffin, Alex Jones and Charlie Sheen to pass final judgment.

Just say it.

[bill smith]

For the love of God, WHO????

WHO passes final judgment on this investigation? Give me names, not "a politician" or "a judge."

Why is this such a hard question for truthers to answer?

You people have been fantasyzing about this new investigation for over 4 years now. Surely you must have SOME idea of who you'd put in charge of deciding the end result of the bloody thing.

Just be honest with us, Bill. You want Steven Jones, Richard Gage and Willy Rodriguez to present "evidence" and you want DR Griffin, Alex Jones and Charlie Sheen to pass final judgment.

Just say it.
The names don't really matter do they ? Suffice to say they would all be competent investigators with a deep knowledge of 9/11. DRG, Richard Gage and Steven Jones would be three I guess who have the trust of most of the Truth Community. Then there would be several heavily qualified experts that they have chosen for the panel. I wouldn't like to name the politician I have in mind.

You can have whoever you like on your panel.

[Arus808]

JREF Truthers come on and post who you'd like to see doing the investigation, this is actually an interesting subject.


those that would be on the "new investigation" were the ones that were on the ORIGINAL investigation. these are the only people I trust

I point to you:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pi/

[Fjolle]

those that would be on the "new investigation" were the ones that were on the ORIGINAL investigation. these are the only people I trust

I point to you:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pi/

That wouldn't really be fair, as they have this NWO thing that is called Ph.Ds in a field relevant to what they will be talking about...

[Arus808]

well unfortunate to the troofers since all they have are theologinas, b-movie actors, faith healers, and con artists

[dudalb]

I think for our hypothetical commission for a new investigation, we should enlist the following:

1. Superman
2. Jesus Christ
3. Satan (to keep Jesus honest)
4. Santa Claus
5. Albert Einstein
6. Alexander the Great

Anyone want to suggest anyone else? I mean the above list is as rational and plausible as Bill's.

TAM:D

How dare you leave out Batman and Sherlock Holmes?

[dudalb]

well unfortunate to the troofers since all they have are theologinas, b-movie actors, faith healers, and con artists

You left out failed talk show hosts.

[nicepants]

Over the last few years I've started several threads on this issue and never get a full answer from truthers.

a) who funds the new invetsigation?

b) who testifies (and who does not)?

c) who passes final judgment?

Most truthers answer...

a) tax dollars (ie the very covernment they accuse of staging 911)

b) Steven Jones, Richard Gage, and all the FDNY who truthers claim heard demolition "exploisions,

c) no specific answers yet.

Those seem to be recurring themes. I will say that the NYC ballot initiative was the most detailed as far as who would be involved & how it would work. Their investigation was said to be paid for by private donations, though they didn't specify who they were going to come from.

[GlennB]

That should be fun to watch. The thermians will accuse the explosive roof panellers of being paid disinformation agents, the no-planers will accuse both lots of being paid disinformation agents, the space beamers will accuse all the rest of being paid disinformation agents, the LIHOPpers will accuse the entire MIHOP movement of being paid disinformation agents, and the David Icke brigade will probably end up accusing themselves of being paid disinformation agents.



So you've spent time on the UK 9/11 forum then?

[DGM]

So bottom line Bill, You want the American people to fund an investigation that is not in anyway covered by the laws and constitution of this country. This is what your proposing.

[triforcharity]

It only matters who we trust, not who you trust.


Who is funding this?? Because if it is me, than anyone should have an opinion. A vote if you will. This IS the investigation you want right???

[triforcharity]

What would happen if every single one of whomever they called said, "I plead the 5th." and then stepped off the stand??? They couldn't do a damn thing about it either!!

HA HA, FAIL!!!

[triforcharity]

The names don't really matter do they ? Suffice to say they would all be competent investigators with a deep knowledge of 9/11. DRG, Richard Gage and Steven Jones would be three I guess who have the trust of most of the Truth Community. Then there would be several heavily qualified experts that they have chosen for the panel. I wouldn't like to name the politician I have in mind.

You can have whoever you like on your panel.

Ok, I will take the following people.

all the Engineers from Perdue and MIT, along with all the chemists from those colleges

Then, I will take the law professors from Harvard and Yale.

I will then take the investigators from the FBI and the ATF, along with the NTSB.

I will then take every firefighter who was there on the day it happened.


Something tells me that I have a stacked team.

[Macgyver1968]

Read back through the thread.

Tax dollars fund the investigation.

Who testifies ? Whoever the Panels subpoena.

It would be decided in open court on live TV.

Um...if tax dollars pay for it...then it's not "independent" anymore. If the government pays for it, then it's a government investigation. Just thought I'd point that out.

Decided in open court? Is this an investigation or a trial? Who sits in judgment? (not names..but how many, and what type of people would sit in judgment) Would this be held in a Federal courtroom?

You're so funny Bill...I like playing with you. :)

[beachnut]

... DRG, Richard Gage and Steven Jones would be three I guess who have the trust of most of the Truth Community. ...
No wonder why you have and post delusions on 911. Your moronic dream team of doltish tripe on 911. Dumber, dumber, and dumber; a trio of stupid 911 delusion snake-oil salesmen. The same is true with these three as it is with Charlie Sheen you have no evidence or arguments based on reality to support a single lie these fools manufactured to fool you into mindless belief.

[tsig]

It only matters who we trust, not who you trust.


Who do you trust?

[dudalb]

For some reason the kind of investigative panel bill smith wants reminds me of the "court" in the classic novel and film "The Ox Bow Incident".

[CHF]

The names don't really matter do they ? Suffice to say they would all be competent investigators with a deep knowledge of 9/11. DRG, Richard Gage and Steven Jones would be three I guess who have the trust of most of the Truth Community. Then there would be several heavily qualified experts that they have chosen for the panel. I wouldn't like to name the politician I have in mind.

You can have whoever you like on your panel.

What do you mean my panel?

You make it sound like this is nothing but a fantasy game where we all make up our very own investigation. Oh wait, that is what you're doing.

Glad to see you're at least honest enough to admit that you'd stack the panel with kooks.

[tsig]

For some reason the kind of investigative panel bill smith wants reminds me of the "court" in the classic novel and film "The Ox Bow Incident".

A real "hanging jury" or maybe a lynch mob. Just receiving that "broad subpoena" would be enough to cause mass suicides.

[Scott Sommers]

What do you mean my panel?

You make it sound like this is nothing but a fantasy game where we all make up our very own investigation. Oh wait, that is what you're doing.

Glad to see you're at least honest enough to admit that you'd stack the panel with kooks.

I'm really disappointed with this. I thought after Truthers run their slate of candidates and take over the country, this was really going to happen. You mean to say you're not preparing a platform for a real election? Then who can the millions of people who question the 'official story' turn to? Obama's too caught up in health care and fixing the economy to worry about real issues. Besides, he's secretly a member of JREF.

[Foolmewunz]

This is just lovely, Bill. And you're one of our more fantastical troothers, yet even you cannot come up with a sensible plan. This is what many of us have been saying for years.

Notice how the saner (and I use that term in its loosest sense) TMers are staying away from this thread like it has Herpes?

[Foolmewunz]

What do you mean my panel?

You make it sound like this is nothing but a fantasy game where we all make up our very own investigation. Oh wait, that is what you're doing.

Glad to see you're at least honest enough to admit that you'd stack the panel with kooks.

There's no need for a second panel. That's just Bill trying to sound all "fair" and stuff. Too much reality tv, if you ask me.

"... and then we'll all vote on who has the best powerpoint presentation that week, and one person will be asked to leave the island panel..."

[fourtoe]

Who should be on the panel?



Decided by who? The viewers?

And by having the GOVERNMENT in charge of funding are you intentionally leaving yourself an opportunity to dismiss the investigation if you don't like the result?

My panel of judges includes:

Judge Judy
http://pamajama.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/judge-judy.jpg
Judge Reinhold
http://goremasternews.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/judge-reinhold.jpg
Simon Cowell
http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/blog-images/people/simon-cowell.jpg
Uncle Phil
http://xd8.xanga.com/a91d9b46d5d31154227145/z115312235.jpg
and if anyone can find a picture of Martin Sheen from his cameo as a judge in Dead Presidents that would pretty much kick start the new investigation.

[bill smith]

Um...if tax dollars pay for it...then it's not "independent" anymore. If the government pays for it, then it's a government investigation. Just thought I'd point that out.

Decided in open court? Is this an investigation or a trial? Who sits in judgment? (not names..but how many, and what type of people would sit in judgment) Would this be held in a Federal courtroom?

You're so funny Bill...I like playing with you. :)

We would hope to force them to fund a two-panel investigation followed by a trial in the courts. Everybody will know the facts through wall-to-wall TV analysis . The judges can be sequestered in some luxurious hotel under guard without TV or newspapers so that they are not unduly influenced by anything other than their time in court. By the time it comes for the judges to rule. I have a feeling that they will go with the evidence.

Like I said this will be like nothing that has gone before.

[Foolmewunz]

We would hope to force them to fund a two-panel investigation followed by a trial in the courts. Everybody will know the facts through wall to all TV analysis . The judges can be sequestered in some luxurious hotel under guard without TV or newspapers so that they are not unduy influenced by anything other than their time in court. By the time it comes for the judges to rule. I have a feeling that they will go with the evidence.

Like I said this will be like nothing that has gone before.

"...followed by a trial..."

You, of course, don't see the irony in that. You have prejudged the situation and just automatically assume that your hand-picked panel is going to come up with a decision to prosecute.

[T.A.M.]

Sorry but Gage, Jones, and Griffin are all too bias in favor of the "inside job" theory for them to be impartial enough to be on the new investigation committee.

Try again bill.

TAM:)

[bill smith]

Sorry but Gage, Jones, and Griffin are all too bias in favor of the "inside job" theory for them to be impartial enough to be on the new investigation committee.

Try again bill.

TAM:)

This is an adversarial investigation. We do not pretend to be unbiased. We are as biased as all-get-out. But we intend through the subpoenas and full access to the material and other evidence to be able to come up with solid evidence to instruct our lawyers. Your guys can do the same.

What could be fairer than that ?

[CHF]

This is an adversarial investigation. We do not pretend to be unbiased. We are as biased as all-get-out. But we intend through the subpoenas and full access to the material and other evidence to be able to come up with solid evidence to instruct our lawyers. Your guys can do the same.

What could be fairer than that ?

OK now you seem to be describing pre-investigation research (ie. - both sides gather evidence and then bring it to the table).

So who passes judgment on what both sides present?

But perhaps I've misunderstood your post. Perhaps you really are admitting that your desire for a "new investigation" is simply a call for your beliefs to be rubber-stampped as "truth" in an new official investigation run exclusively by the TM.

[twinstead]

But perhaps I've misunderstood your post. Perhaps you really are admitting that your desire for a "new investigation" is simply a call for your beliefs to be rubber-stampped as "truth" in an new official investigation run exclusively by the TM.

Now I'm just shocked you'd even suggest that! :eek:

[bill smith]

OK now you seem to be describing pre-investigation research (ie. - both sides gather evidence and then bring it to the table).

So who passes judgment on what both sides present?

But perhaps I've misunderstood your post. Perhaps you really are admitting that your desire for a "new investigation" is simply a call for your beliefs to be rubber-stampped as "truth" in an new official investigation run exclusively by the TM.

You will fnd the answer in the hyperlink.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5111051&postcount=90

[MRC_Hans]

This is an adversarial investigation. We do not pretend to be unbiased. We are as biased as all-get-out. But we intend through the subpoenas and full access to the material and other evidence to be able to come up with solid evidence to instruct our lawyers. Your guys can do the same.

What could be fairer than that ?I think it would be fairer if you came up with some useful evidence first. I mean evidence other than to the tune of "I don't understand how this could happen".

Hans

[CHF]

You will fnd the answer in the hyperlink.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5111051&postcount=90

We would hope to force them to fund a two-panel investigation followed by a trial in the courts. Everybody will know the facts through wall-to-wall TV analysis . The judges can be sequestered in some luxurious hotel under guard without TV or newspapers so that they are not unduly influenced by anything other than their time in court. By the time it comes for the judges to rule. I have a feeling that they will go with the evidence.

Like I said this will be like nothing that has gone before.

And we're back to square one with "trial in the courts."

Who judges the evidence in this trial? Who are the judges?

If you're thinking "David Ray Griffin!" then please just say so.

[bill smith]

And we're back to square one with "trial in the courts."

Who judges the evidence in this trial? Who are the judges?

If you're thinking "David Ray Griffin!" then please just say so.

No I am thinking of well known senior American judges. But under the intense scrutiny of the entire Nation and the rest of the world who are fully abreast of the facts I suspect that they will go with the evidence.

[bill smith]

So it seems that we have a working model for a new 9/11 investigation. One that has the best chance of being corruption-free.

[stateofgrace]

So it seems that we have a working model for a new 9/11 investigation. One that has the best chance of being corruption-free.

Yes Bill, because we all know that mass murderers would never lie on TV, right? Maybe we should invite members of Al Qaeda along just to add weight to your proposed TV show.

Call it maybe “Who wants to be a mass murderer ". Hey now there’s an idea Bill maybe those on the stand could ask the audience, phone a friend or take fifty/ fifty if they can’t answer the question.

[HyJinX]

So it seems that we have a working model for a new 9/11 investigation. One that has the best chance of being corruption-free.

Good for you, Bill. Glad to see you have a model that works. Now what?

[bill smith]

Yes Bill, because we all know that mass murderers would never lie on TV, right? Maybe we should invite members of Al Qaeda along just to add weight to your proposed TV show.

Call it maybe “Who wants to be a mass murderer ". Hey now there’s an idea Bill maybe those on the stand could ask the audience, phone a friend or take fifty/ fifty if they can’t answer the question.




Even if they lie we will be able to trip them up left right and centre....on TV. And the more witnesses we subpoena the more we will make a mess of them.

Maybe after it's all over the TV channells can develop shows along the lines of what you are suggesting.

[Dave Rogers]

I think it would be fairer if you came up with some useful evidence first. I mean evidence other than to the tune of "I don't understand how this could happen".

I disagree. I think the truther presentation should start with a complete listing of the aspects of 9/11 that bill smith doesn't understand. It could then move on to the aspects of everything else that bill smith doesn't understand. Then it could move on to a discussion of everything that everybody else in the truth movement doesn't understand. By this time, the sun should have gone nova, rendering the participation of sane people completely unnecessary.

Dave

[Dave Rogers]

Even if they lie we will be able to trip them up left right and centre....on TV.

By exposing internal contradictions in their stories, presumably. How will you recognise them?

Dave

[tsig]

This is an adversarial investigation. We do not pretend to be unbiased. We are as biased as all-get-out. But we intend through the subpoenas and full access to the material and other evidence to be able to come up with solid evidence to instruct our lawyers. Your guys can do the same.

What could be fairer than that ?

How can they examine the evidence since according to the TM the steel is now supporting bridges in China?

[MRC_Hans]

So it seems that we have a working model for a new 9/11 investigation. One that has the best chance of being corruption-free.Not really. You seem to be under the illusion that you can find a panel of truthers who will be able to work together and act coherently. Past experience indicates that this is highly unlikely.

Even if such a panel could be assembled, you will not get the trust of other truthers.

Finally, you seem to be under the illusion that the vast majority of the US population will give a damn.

In short, you seem to think you have a case.

Hans

[JimBenArm]

By exposing internal contradictions in their stories, presumably. How will you recognise them?

Dave
Oh, easy. Any time they don't say "Inside job!", that's how.

[tsig]

Even if they lie we will be able to trip them up left right and centre....on TV. And the more witnesses we subpoena the more we will make a mess of them.

Maybe after it's all over the TV channells can develop shows along the lines of what you are suggesting.

And when the trial is over then we can execute them on live TV!!

When that pulls big ratings then we can offer death row inmates money if they will agree to go on TV with their deaths.

I think beheading is the way to go. Action, blood, drama, made to order for Reality Death TV.

What do you think Bill?

[stateofgrace]

Even if they lie we will be able to trip them up left right and centre....on TV. And the more witnesses we subpoena the more we will make a mess of them.

Maybe after it's all over the TV channells can develop shows along the lines of what you are suggesting.

We? There is no we Bill; there is just you living in a dream world. You will never get your TV show; you will never get it broadcast to the entire planet. In case you wasn't aware I was taking the mickey out of you, not the event.

911 is not a form of entertainment, it is a tragic event where thousands died. They did not die so you can entertain yourself with delusions of grandeur. Nor should or will it ever be treated in the disrespectful manner you wish it to be treated. It is not gutter TV, it is not an entertainment show. It is not there for you to drag it down to the ridiculous depths you try to.

[CHF]

No I am thinking of well known senior American judges. But under the intense scrutiny of the entire Nation and the rest of the world who are fully abreast of the facts I suspect that they will go with the evidence.

By "well known senior American judges" do you mean, say, the ones who are nominated by the US president and comfirmed by the US Senate?

If so, this is bizarre on your part.

You want a new investigation into whether or not the US government staged 9/11, and you want it funded by the US government and decided by US government-backed judges.

I can only assume this is to allow you an excuse to dismiss the verdict when it arrives.

[bill smith]

And when the trial is over then we can execute them on live TV!!

When that pulls big ratings then we can offer death row inmates money if they will agree to go on TV with their deaths.

I think beheading is the way to go. Action, blood, drama, made to order for Reality Death TV.

What do you think Bill?

It's not my concern what is done with them afterwards. Always assuning that the chief suspects have not flown the coop of course. As long as the entire world knows for certain who they are and what they did that will be enough for me.

[TjW]

I think for our hypothetical commission for a new investigation, we should enlist the following:

1. Superman
2. Jesus Christ
3. Satan (to keep Jesus honest)
4. Santa Claus
5. Albert Einstein
6. Alexander the Great

Anyone want to suggest anyone else? I mean the above list is as rational and plausible as Bill's.

TAM:D

Clearly, Plato should be involved, as I'm sure there will be mention of men living in caves, and shadow governments.

[T.A.M.]

This is an adversarial investigation. We do not pretend to be unbiased. We are as biased as all-get-out. But we intend through the subpoenas and full access to the material and other evidence to be able to come up with solid evidence to instruct our lawyers. Your guys can do the same.

What could be fairer than that ?

my guys?

Anyway, good luck with your dream team.

TAM:)

[Dave Rogers]

Not really. You seem to be under the illusion that you can find a panel of truthers who will be able to work together and act coherently. Past experience indicates that this is highly unlikely.

Ah, yes, remember the 2007 San Diego Citizens' Grand Jury, assembled by Jim Hoffman? Starting from the presumption that 9/11 was an inside job, and viewing only evidence carefully selected and, where necessary, altered to support this view, they came to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job and that somebody should really do something about it. A few specific names were put before them for indictment, but they couldn't agree on any of them. Hoffman couldn't even persuade them to name Dick Cheney as a conspirator.

Now there was a perfect example of an independent investigation of the type bill smith wants. After all their deliberations, they ended up precisely where they started, and the world wasn't even sufficiently moved to give a collective yawn.

Dave

[T.A.M.]

So it seems that we have a working model for a new 9/11 investigation. One that has the best chance of being corruption-free.

nope. Your suggested investigative committee is just as biased as the previous commission, if not much more so, therefore it is much more apt to corruption to serve its own bias purposes. Your people can lie, forge, etc... just as easily as the govt. Who is to say that S.Jones has not completely fabricated his "thermite" evidence?

No, you are no further ahead at finding such.

Sorry.

TAM:)

[Dave Rogers]

It's not my concern what is done with them afterwards. Always assuning that the chief suspects have not flown the coop of course. As long as the entire world knows for certain who they are and what they did that will be enough for me.

It seems to me that you should be able to achieve that with a sufficiently convincing YouTube video, in your own mind at least. In which case, why bother with an investigation?

Dave

[HyJinX]

It seems to me that you should be able to achieve that with a sufficiently convincing YouTube video, in your own mind at least. In which case, why bother with an investigation?

Dave

Street cred.

[CHF]

It's not my concern what is done with them afterwards. Always assuning that the chief suspects have not flown the coop of course. As long as the entire world knows for certain who they are and what they did that will be enough for me.

So if you don't care what happens to "the chief suspects" after they've been identified to the world then aren't you kinda done?

Truthers have been identifying the chief suspects to the world for 5-6 years now: Bush, Cheney, Silverstein, the FDNY, Israel, the illuminati....

Granted, the world doesn't care about your deranged ramblings, but you have certainly identified the bad guys nonetheless.

So what more is there for you to do? You're done. You don't care what happens next.

Right?

[tsig]

It's not my concern what is done with them afterwards. Always assuning that the chief suspects have not flown the coop of course. As long as the entire world knows for certain who they are and what they did that will be enough for me.

So it would all be a tease with no climax?

I don't think you can jack up the public like that and then provide no release. The burst of opinion would cream you.

[bill smith]

So it would all be a tease with no climax?

I don't think you can jack up the public like that and then provide no release. The burst of opinion would cream you.

I had times when I wanted to stretch necks. I even wanted to bring back the Guillotine for this crime. That semed appropriate because if any country ever needed a French Revolution that country is/was America. You have let your aristos run away with you.

[beachnut]

It's not my concern what is done with them afterwards. Always assuning that the chief suspects have not flown the coop of course. As long as the entire world knows for certain who they are and what they did that will be enough for me.
The 19 terrorists are dead; you missed 911 and have delusions.

[nicepants]

No I am thinking of well known senior American judges. But under the intense scrutiny of the entire Nation and the rest of the world who are fully abreast of the facts I suspect that they will go with the evidence.

So after both sides have presented their evidence, the decision will be made by "senior American Judges"?

There goes the "independent" part of your investigation.


I can only assume this is to allow you an excuse to dismiss the verdict when it arrives.

Sounds about right to me.

[DGM]

Bill:
So you don't want an investigation you want witch hunt. Do you know what the difference is? Why would you want an investigation when you already know the "truth"? You need to find some place in this world willing to prosecute without due course (sorry not the US).

[dudalb]

So it seems that we I have a working model for a new 9/11 investigation. One that has the best chance of being corruption-free.

Fixed that for you.
I don't see anybody else signing on your "working model".

[bill smith]

So after both sides have presented their evidence, the decision will be made by "senior American Judges"?

There goes the "independent" part of your investigation.



Sounds about right to me.

I'm virtually certain that the judges will do the right thing in this case. I would.

[beachnut]

Don't forget; Sheen has "bottomless warren of unanswered questions.".

"911 truth", named after something they are not looking for!

The best part of 911 truth, really a lies spreading club, they could not form an independent thought let alone an independent investigation.

[dudalb]

I had times when I wanted to stretch necks. I even wanted to bring back the Guillotine for this crime. That semed appropriate because if any country ever needed a French Revolution that country is/was America. You have let your aristos run away with you.

SInce apparently "bill smith" is a she, I suggest on the strength of this post she change her name to "Madame Defarge".

[dudalb]

I'm virtually certain that the judges will do the right thing in this case. I would.

Great FSM, you have spent the last year here proving how corrupt the US Establishment and legal system is and then you expect Federal Judges to "do the right thing"?:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:eye-poppi:eye-poppi:eye-poppi

[bill smith]

SInce apparently "bill smith" is a she, I suggest on the strength of this post she change her name to "Madame Defarge".

I even have the knitting needles.lol

[bill smith]

Great FSM, you have spent the last year here proving how corrupt the US Establishment and legal system is and then you expect Federal Judges to "do the right thing"?:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:eye-poppi:eye-poppi:eye-poppi

Only because the American people would insist on American judges.

[triforcharity]

Even if they lie we will be able to trip them up left right and centre....on TV. And the more witnesses we subpoena the more we will make a mess of them.

Maybe after it's all over the TV channells can develop shows along the lines of what you are suggesting.

And what happenes when EVERY SINGLE PERSON that you call to the stand says the following words??

I PLEAD THE FIFTH!!

What then?? Talk about an EPIC FAIL!! Ha ha ha.....


BTW, who sits on this jury?? I mean, we DO have the right to have a trial by JURY, right?? Or, because in THIS investigation, all of our rights are suspended?? That right there is where your problem is. Beyond the "unbiased" thing.

[tsig]

I had times when I wanted to stretch necks. I even wanted to bring back the Guillotine for this crime. That semed appropriate because if any country ever needed a French Revolution that country is/was America. You have let your aristos run away with you.

So you are up for the beheading after all you just don't want to get your hands bloody.

Yeah having a President rule by divine right seems a bit off the wall.:rolleyes:

[tsig]

And what happenes when EVERY SINGLE PERSON that you call to the stand says the following words??

I PLEAD THE FIFTH!!

What then?? Talk about an EPIC FAIL!! Ha ha ha.....


BTW, who sits on this jury?? I mean, we DO have the right to have a trial by JURY, right?? Or, because in THIS investigation, all of our rights are suspended?? That right there is where your problem is. Beyond the "unbiased" thing.

They have to suspend our rights to preserve them.

In a big jar with the lid sealed tight.

[bill smith]

And what happenes when EVERY SINGLE PERSON that you call to the stand says the following words??

I PLEAD THE FIFTH!!

What then?? Talk about an EPIC FAIL!! Ha ha ha.....


BTW, who sits on this jury?? I mean, we DO have the right to have a trial by JURY, right?? Or, because in THIS investigation, all of our rights are suspended?? That right there is where your problem is. Beyond the "unbiased" thing.

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

But I think we will have solid empirical evidence anyway and will not have to rely on witnesses

There can be a jury if neccessary, though I think a panel of three judges would be enough.

There will be some tweaking needed but the outline seems to be sound.

[dtugg]

bs, you've never explained to me how twoofer morons are going to stop the NWO from just whacking witnesses that are about to spill the beans.

[Bluesky]

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

But I think we will have solid empirical evidence anyway and will not have to rely on witnesses

There can be a jury if neccessary, though I think a panel of three judges would be enough.

There will be some tweaking needed but the outline seems to be sound.
So it will be a battle of the ratings. The ae911truthers pitting their Youtube movies against the mountains of considered evidence from NIST. Hey if the ae911tm can keep the evidence to soundbites, the NIST team don't stand a chance.! Can you just imagine a minute of Les Robertson vs Bill Smith... The truth will be much less entertaining.

If the ae911truthers get enough money, after Gage's yacht of course, the Lord of The Rings producers may even do their video compilation.

The sad thing is that Bill is really explaining ae911truth's strategy for a new investigation.

[The Platypus]

So Bill,

Let's say we have this ridiculous imaginary investigation/trial scenario take place, and your side loses and the public and judges all find that 9/11 wasn't an inside job...

Then what? You would then accept it?

[dudalb]

Planet Earth calling Bill Smith, Planet Earth calling Bill Smith....

[triforcharity]

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

But I think we will have solid empirical evidence anyway and will not have to rely on witnesses

There can be a jury if neccessary, though I think a panel of three judges would be enough.

There will be some tweaking needed but the outline seems to be sound.

Two Fails, one paragraph.

The people of the world have already heard your dirt-dumb story. Most do NOT believe it. Some dumber ones do though. But, a trial is not tried in the court of public opinion. It is tried in front of a jury of our peers.

Secondly, I have the right to a trial by jury. It is one of my rights as a citizen of the USA, and is guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Sorry, but you dirt-dumb idea is full of fail.

[CHF]

I'm virtually certain that the judges will do the right thing in this case. I would.

The "right thing?"

Sounds like you already know the "right" verdict, Bill.

So why not just skip the "trial" and go straight to the firing squad?

[SpitfireIX]

Ok, I will take the following people.

all the Engineers from Perdue and MIT, along with all the chemists from those colleges.


<cough>

[SpitfireIX]

SInce apparently "bill smith" is a she, I suggest on the strength of this post she change her name to "Madame Defarge".


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/170604ab27f1f50ab8.jpg

[nicepants]

I'm virtually certain that the judges will do the right thing in this case. I would.

What you consider "the right thing" and what those judges consider "the right thing" may not be the same.

What would you do if the judges decided against the truthers?

[T.A.M.]

Here is my new suggested list for co-chairs of bs's new investigation:

1. Muammar Gaddafi
2. Kim Jong-il
3. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
4. OBL

TAM:)

[triforcharity]

Purdue?? I am sorry, I was thinking the guys from the Chicken University. My apologies.

Even THOSE guys still know more about physics than most twoofers.

[triforcharity]

Bill,


What happens if every single person that you put on the stands says these words.

I plead the fifth.

What will happen then??

Do we suspend our rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America?? That ammendment, aptly named, the 5th ammendment, says that I or anyone else do not have to incriminate ourselves.

What are you going to do???

[Dave Rogers]

Here is my new suggested list for co-chairs of bs's new investigation:

1. Muammar Gaddafi
2. Kim Jong-il
3. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
4. OBL

TAM:)

Even with that panel, I think we're looking at a 2-2 split vote on the verdict.

Dave

[Dave Rogers]

Do we suspend our rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America?? That ammendment, aptly named, the 5th ammendment, says that I or anyone else do not have to incriminate ourselves.

What are you going to do???

D00d, Dick Cheney already suspended the constitution! It's called the Patirot act, dumbass - cant u sheeple READ?!!?!!!

Dave

[bill smith]

Bill,


What happens if every single person that you put on the stands says these words.

I plead the fifth.

What will happen then??

Do we suspend our rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America?? That ammendment, aptly named, the 5th ammendment, says that I or anyone else do not have to incriminate ourselves.

What are you going to do???

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

But I think we will have solid empirical evidence anyway and will not have to rely on witnesses

There can be a jury if neccessary, though I think a panel of three judges would be enough.

There will be some tweaking needed but the outline seems to be sound.

[The Platypus]

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

But I think we will have solid empirical evidence anyway and will not have to rely on witnesses

There can be a jury if neccessary, though I think a panel of three judges would be enough.

There will be some tweaking needed but the outline seems to be sound.

And what if the conclusion of the 3 judges, the jury and the vast majority of the world ended up concluding what is already the case, that your side is nonsense and there was no inside job...

Then what? That would "be enough" and you would then realize you have been playing fairy tale games?

[DGM]

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

But I think we will have solid empirical evidence anyway and will not have to rely on witnesses

There can be a jury if neccessary, though I think a panel of three judges would be enough.

There will be some tweaking needed but the outline seems to be sound.

How would this happen? Remember all the major networks and MSM are "in on it". It sucks you guys threw so many people under the bus, Huh?

[CHF]

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

We already have an idea as to what would happen, bill.

You folks have been bombarding the internet with one-sided truther "documentaries" for several years now in which your side gets 100% of the talk time.

Tens of millions of people have seen these propaganda pieces.

And yet the biggest truther rallies draw 100+ in NYC, 25 in Toronto, 6 in Boston.....etc etc.

The kitchen table verdict is in: you're insane.

[triforcharity]

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

But I think we will have solid empirical evidence anyway and will not have to rely on witnesses

There can be a jury if neccessary, though I think a panel of three judges would be enough.

There will be some tweaking needed but the outline seems to be sound.

Oh, yes, a jury would most CERTAINLY be nessary. Absolutely, because that is our rights as Americans. You cannot get past this ever. Not even in your lifetime.
I also have the right to cross-examine any testimony, as per our Bill of Rights nd Constitution. You also cannot get beyond this ever.

Again, remember that a trial is not decided by the public, but rather by a jury. It wouldn't matter WHAT these "Billions" thought, as "thought" is not a conviction. Hell, if a thought is all that is needed for a conviction, many many many people would be in prison wrongfully.

The outline is NOT sound, in any court in the USA or the UN. Its just a fail.

[triforcharity]

BTW, I asked my kitchen table, and he/she agrees, its idiotic.

[Bluesky]

The watching audience of likely a billion or two people around the world will draw their own conclusions from all the government witnesses taking the fifth. In this case a kitchen table judgement on a world scale would be enough.

But I think we will have solid empirical evidence anyway and will not have to rely on witnesses

There can be a jury if neccessary, though I think a panel of three judges would be enough.

There will be some tweaking needed but the outline seems to be sound.

And if you can get 2 billion people to watch, then the ratings will be great. You would be in competition with other reality shows like CSI and NCIS.

I am sure that even if only 1 in a thousand people believe, then Richard Gage would be so stunningly rich... oh joy!

[dafydd]

We already have an idea as to what would happen, bill.

You folks have been bombarding the internet with one-sided truther "documentaries" for several years now in which your side gets 100% of the talk time.

Tens of millions of people have seen these propaganda pieces.

And yet the biggest truther rallies draw 100+ in NYC, 25 in Toronto, 6 in Boston.....etc etc.

The kitchen table verdict is in: you're insane.

Or a troll.My money's on troll,nobody could believe the nonsense that Bill posts.Still,everyone needs a hobby.