The Aspartame Thread

[cafetimes1991]

Having followed David Icke and Alex Jones for over a year now, and still a spoiled teenager, I need your opinion. I miss Diet Coke.
Help me disprove David and Alex, please.

Thanks,
Brian, 17

[Praktik]

My thoughts on aspartame?

It tastes like poo, and that's why I don't consume anything with it

[cafetimes1991]

My thoughts on aspartame?

It tastes like poo, and that's why I don't consume anything with it

Sorry. Yeah, aspartame. I should have been more specific. :o

[Praktik]

i dont see any lack of specificity in your post you wanted to know about aspartame conspiracies and I posted something that wasn't all that useful.

I still don't know why people even drink it - not cause of health concerns, but cause of the taste.

But I do faintly recall hearing that there was kind of a "taste divide" on aspartame and that there's a certain percentage of the population that react very negatively to it.

Im one of those...

[zaphod2016]

Artificial Sweeteners and Cancer (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/artificial-sweeteners) from the National Cancer Institute

NCI examined human data from the NIH-AARP Diet and Health Study of over half a million retirees. Increasing consumption of aspartame-containing beverages was not associated with the development of lymphoma, leukemia, or brain cancer

Carcinogenicity of Aspartame: Soffritti Responds (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2430255)

First, Magnuson and Williams imply that our findings (Soffritti et al. 2007) should be discounted because the incidence of lymphomas/leukemias in the high-dose group “were within or near the reported historical control ranges.” As reported in our study (Soffritti et al. 2007), the incidence of lymphomas/leukemias observed in both sexes treated with 2,000 ppm aspartame is nearly double the concurrent control (Soffritti et al. 2007). The suggestion that concurrent control data should be ignored is contrary to the widely accepted standard of good laboratory science.

In summary, the US FDA says that aspartame is a-ok. Several in Europe, including Dr. Soffritti disagree, and claim to have found evidence to the contrary. This evidence has thus far been dismissed by the US FDA.


But I do faintly recall hearing that there was kind of a "taste divide" on aspartame and that there's a certain percentage of the population that react very negatively to it.


I'd love to know more if you can find a link. I myself also hate aspartame in all its forms. To be fair, I grew up in the 80's and was reminded that Equal causes cancer in rats quite often.

I take the naive view that if something kills small animals, its probably best not to mess with it. Just one yokel's opinion.

[Moss]

This (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4127) episode of Skeptoid has infos about Aspartame and debunks a lot of the wilder claims. The question of carcinogenity wasn't adressed if I remember correctly.

[Red3]

I be asking where D.I and A.J get their info from re: aspartame...I'd put money on them having no basis whatsoever for what they say, like everything else that comes out of their mouths.

I reckon it's just 50th hand info passed on and on that's become embedded in the collective of people in the new age/truth movement, probably originating here: Nancy Markle link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy#Activism_and_internet_rumors )

I've noticed that people in the truth movement are absolutely petrified of technological/social development, this is a prime example.

[Praktik]

I'd love to know more if you can find a link. I myself also hate aspartame in all its forms. To be fair, I grew up in the 80's and was reminded that Equal causes cancer in rats quite often.

I take the naive view that if something kills small animals, its probably best not to mess with it. Just one yokel's opinion.

there's something called "mouth feel" that may be at work...

http://scienceblogs.com/omnibrain/2007/04/why_diet_sodas_taste_like_crap.php

[Retrograde]

But I do faintly recall hearing that there was kind of a "taste divide" on aspartame and that there's a certain percentage of the population that react very negatively to it.

I've heard it's an acquired taste, and that once acquired you have to keep injesting the stuff or you lose your liking for it. I think it tastes vile, and stick to water and tea.

There seems to be a belief that anything artificial causes cancer in lab rats. Before aspertame there were cyclamates, which were pulled from the market in the US for the same reason. Canada kept them for many years afterwards, and I don't think they saw any noticeable increases in cancer rates.

[Leviath]

Some quick info on aspartame:

http://skeptoid.com/episode.php?id=4127&comments=all
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp
http://www.aspartame.net/rumors/Aspartame_and_the_Internet.asp

[zaphod2016]

there's something called "mouth feel" that may be at work...

http://scienceblogs.com/omnibrain/2007/04/why_diet_sodas_taste_like_crap.php

Very interesting. Diet soda does "feel" watery to me now that you mention it.

Snopes is great, but check out this Soffritti character. Is she a nut, or does her data stand up?

[HereticHulk]

Having followed David Icke and Alex Jones for over a year now, and still a spoiled teenager, I need your opinion. I miss Diet Coke.
Help me disprove David and Alex, please.

Thanks,
Brian, 17

Aspartame is prolly not the worst aspect of Diet Coke (Soda) (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/201058/is_diet_soda_worse_than_regular_soda.html?cat=5).



1. You might notice that you get bloated if you decide to drink diet soda. The main reason is because the carbonation that can be found in diet soda leads to fluid retention. This could be the reason that you might begin to notice a little bit of a "pouch" if you are drinking a lot of diet soda lately. Although you might think that you will lose a whole lot of weight through drinking diet soda, the truth is that you could end up feeling as though you are losing less weight with regular soda because of the amount of water weight that you could end up gaining from diet soda.

2. One of the main reasons that you night be drinking this is because it is low in sugar. However, did you ever wonder if it was low in anything else? Just because diet soda is low in sugar does not mean that it isn't loaded in other things. In fact, diet soda has an extremely high sodium content. One of your main questions might be if sugar or sodium intake is worse. The answer is that you can really flip a coin or take your pick. Both are not healthy when they are drank excessively.

[mythstifieD]

3. Diet soda contains Aspartame, which is highly unhealthy for your body- in more ways than one. If you did not already know, ten percent of Aspartame consists of methanol, also known as wood alcohol, which is an extremely deadly poison. Eventually, once you have consumed it, methanol will turn into formic acid and formaldehyde while it is in your body. Both of these things are, of course, poisonous to the body. What's worse is that Aspartame has been known to vision complications among humans, as well as seizures and brain tumors among animals. Overall, it is definitely safe to say that Aspartame is not something that you would want to consume if you were able to choose not to.

This is pathetic, I don't believe a word this guy says on his other points simply because of this one. There's a mountain of evidence that the methanol in aspartame is as harmless as the many times more methanol found in your average tomato.

I guess we should ban ketchup...

[Arus808]

But I do faintly recall hearing that there was kind of a "taste divide" on aspartame and that there's a certain percentage of the population that react very negatively to it.

Im one of those...

me too. I taste something very "chemically" that is trying to imitate sugar.

Its gross

ETA: nothing to do with mouth feel on my end; even the "newest" version of aspartame (to taste more like sugar) still taste like chemicals to me.

And dont even get me started on the ucky after taste

[HereticHulk]

This is pathetic, I don't believe a word this guy says on his other points simply because of this one. There's a mountain of evidence that the methanol in aspartame is as harmless as the many times more methanol found in your average tomato.

I guess we should ban ketchup...

Ketchup is pretty bad too. It is nothing but mostly sugar and salt.

[Alareth]

So can I or can I not chew Fruit Stripe?

[Arus808]

Ketchup is pretty bad too. It is nothing but mostly sugar and salt.


...and vinegar...and garlic...and celery...

but its oh so good

[Alareth]

...and vinegar...and garlic...and celery...

but its oh so good

It might also contain tomato ...

[ysabella]

There seems to be a belief that anything artificial causes cancer in lab rats. Before aspertame there were cyclamates, which were pulled from the market in the US for the same reason. Canada kept them for many years afterwards, and I don't think they saw any noticeable increases in cancer rates.
Canada still has cyclamates. American low-carb dieters often get people to send them Canadian Sugar Twin and Brown Sugar Twin.
The best taste is usually provided by a blend of alternative sweeteners. But yeah, that won't do anything for texture, especially for baking.

In the States we're pretty rigorous about approving artificial sweeteners because of big-time soda drinkers. Any new sweetener isn't just going to be sprinkled into sugar, is the thinking, but tanked down by the two-liter bottle, day after day after day.

[Mr.D]

I'd love to know more if you can find a link. I myself also hate aspartame in all its forms. To be fair, I grew up in the 80's and was reminded that Equal causes cancer in rats quite often.


Saccharin (Sweet n Low) was the one that used to have the cancer warning (since removed) due to cancer in rats concerns.

Personally, I prefer aspertame/sucralose sodas to sugar/HFCS sodas because the latter has a "heavy mouth feel" which I find less refreshing. OTOH, my mother says aspertame has an aftertaste she doesn't like.

[akama1]

I avoid Saccharin because I tend to over indulge. being one of the side effects is laxative, I'll stick to cane sugar

(Plus Mexican\Kosher Coke made from Cane Sugar is soooo Yummy)

[Arus808]

I avoid Saccharin because I tend to over indulge. being one of the side effects is laxative, I'll stick to cane sugar

(Plus Mexican\Kosher Coke made from Cane Sugar is soooo Yummy)

gotta totally agree. Mexico Coca Cola is oh sooooo good. There's a soda shop here in California (featured on Food Network - Galco's) that carries real sugar cane sodas (in various flavors)

[Travis]

As I recall the only time they were ever able to get tumors in rats fed aspartame was when they gave the rats about 5000% of what a human could reasonably consume a day through FDA approved aspartame containing products. My hunch is that just about anything fed to rats in such ridiculous concentrations and quantities is bound to produce bad results. Remember that water will kill you if you drink too much of it too.

*Travis pops open another Diet Pepsi*

[Eddie Dane]

Regardless of woo misinformation about aspartame, I never use light products.

Light products are gay
People who use light products are almost always overweight.
Light products taste like a petrochemical waste product.

Just my opinion, of course.

[T.A.M.]

the answer is simple. Find me a randomized double blind control trial (a legit one) that shows a statistically significant increase in any form of serious illness within the Aspartame group versus a placebo control group, and you will have my attention.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

As I recall the only time they were ever able to get tumors in rats fed aspartame was when they gave the rats about 5000% of what a human could reasonably consume a day through FDA approved aspartame containing products. My hunch is that just about anything fed to rats in such ridiculous concentrations and quantities is bound to produce bad results. Remember that water will kill you if you drink too much of it too.

*Travis pops open another Diet Pepsi*

exactly. There was an experiment on rats where they gave (IIRC) the equivalent (in Aspartame) of 70L of Diet Soft Drink per day for weeks on end, and no increased levels of Cancers or other significant illnesses.

TAM:)

[mythstifieD]

2. One of the main reasons that you night be drinking this is because it is low in sugar. However, did you ever wonder if it was low in anything else? Just because diet soda is low in sugar does not mean that it isn't loaded in other things. In fact, diet soda has an extremely high sodium content. One of your main questions might be if sugar or sodium intake is worse. The answer is that you can really flip a coin or take your pick. Both are not healthy when they are drank excessively.

Another point... I looked at my can of Diet Pepsi 355ml......... 30mg of Sodium.. EXTREMELY HIGH?!?!? Oh PuLEEZE

[zaphod2016]

Would it be fair to say ALL soda is unhealthy, compared to water or fruit juice?

[T.A.M.]

Would it be fair to say ALL soda is unhealthy, compared to water or fruit juice?

It depends. If you are trying to maintain your weight, or (heaven forbid) lose a few pounds, drinking juice 5-6 times per day is not going to help. Diet Soda, however, will allow you to drink something flavored, but that will not contribute to your caloric intake.

Water beats all of it from a pure health pov, IMO.

TAM:)

[ElMondoHummus]

3. Diet soda contains Aspartame, which is highly unhealthy for your body- in more ways than one. If you did not already know, ten percent of Aspartame consists of methanol, also known as wood alcohol, which is an extremely deadly poison. Eventually, once you have consumed it, methanol will turn into formic acid and formaldehyde while it is in your body. Both of these things are, of course, poisonous to the body. What's worse is that Aspartame has been known to vision complications among humans, as well as seizures and brain tumors among animals. Overall, it is definitely safe to say that Aspartame is not something that you would want to consume if you were able to choose not to.

This is pathetic, I don't believe a word this guy says on his other points simply because of this one. There's a mountain of evidence that the methanol in aspartame is as harmless as the many times more methanol found in your average tomato.

I guess we should ban ketchup...

Yes. People need to consider the quantitative aspect of the methanol argument to understand why it's not an issue. Simply pointing out that it's present is not enough; it's the amount that matters.

Keeping in mind that the dangerous metabolic product of methanol is formic acid (http://www.antizol.com/mpoisono.htm), here's what I wrote back in May about this (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4734752#post4734752):


By this definition, aspartame itself is not a toxin. It does not interfere with human biochemical processes. In fact, a couple of its metabolic products (http://tc.engr.wisc.edu/uer/uer98/author2/content.html) - the amino acids aspartic acid and phenylalanine - happen to be useful to the body, so an argument can be made that aspartame actually has a very small nutritional value. But regardless, it is not a toxin. Rather, the metabolic product of one of aspartame's metabolic products is what's toxic. And as paximperium points out, the amount of this product - formic acid - that gets produced is so small that it is dwarfed by other sources.

So the question of aspartame's real "danger" comes down to exposure. And the fact of the matter is that it takes a ridiculous sustained amount to be dangerous. What's a safe dosage? It has been shown that 200 mg per kilogram of body weight does not result in any elevation of formic acid levels in the body (http://www.adaevidencelibrary.com/topic.cfm?cat=4089)*. I'm roughly 77 kilos (:(). That means I can consume roughly 15,400 mg of aspartame and still be safe. A single can of diet soda contains somewhere in the vicinity of 225 mg. And no, I do not drink over 68 cans of diet Coke at a sitting. Yet, I'd have to exceed - not merely match - that in order to push myself outside the known safe exposure zone.

So can we honestly claim that consumption of aspartame creates toxins? Absolutlely. Aspartame breaks down into products which includes methanol, which itself eventually breaks down into formic acid**. But can we actually call consumption of aspartame dangerous, or claim that it is a poisonous substance? No. Not at the levels a person would normally consume, not even at small multiples of those levels. The argument that aspartame is poisonous can only be made in cases of sustained, extremely excessive consumption. And as a practical matter, that makes aspartame safer than many other substances, alcoholic beverages specifically included.


*Stegink LD, Brummel MC, McMartin K, Martin-Amat G, Filer LJ Jr., Baker GL, Tephly TR (1981). Blood methanol concentrations in normal adult subjects administered abuse doses of aspartame. Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health 7: 281- 290.
and
Stegink LD, Brummel MC, Filer LJ Jr., Baker GL. (1983). Blood methanol concentrations in one-year-old infants administered graded doses of aspartame. Journal of Nutrition 113: 1,600-1,606.

**Pedantic readers will note that formaldehyde is the intermediate step between methanol and formic acid; that's correct, but I'm trying to keep things simple here.

[Travis]

Regardless of woo misinformation about aspartame, I never use light products.

Light products are gay
People who use light products are almost always overweight.
Light products taste like a petrochemical waste product.

Just my opinion, of course.

This is simply because people trying to lose weight through the use of "light products" are, usually, already overweight. If they are not then they have an emotional disorder.

I switched to diet sodas, lost weight and kept it off.

[TheDaver]

My father’s diabetic, so I’ve gotten used to diet cola.

[zaphod2016]

It depends. If you are trying to maintain your weight, or (heaven forbid) lose a few pounds, drinking juice 5-6 times per day is not going to help. Diet Soda, however, will allow you to drink something flavored, but that will not contribute to your caloric intake.

Water beats all of it from a pure health pov, IMO.

TAM:)

I agree 100%, re: water.

However, I've always wondered about the health consequences of soda (I'm a Pepsi addict myself). Sugar/aspartame aside, the carbonation, and other chemicals, cause significant damage to teeth (Google: Mountain Dew mouth). I would not be surprised to learn it was dissolving my inner-organs also.

[scissorhands]

Google: Mountain Dew mouth

I did.

Mountain Dew Mouth owes its name to the carbonated soda Mountain Dew, a beverage produced by Pepsi Co. Although many other sodas contain significant amounts of sugar, caffeine and phosphoric acid, Mountain Dew contains one of the highest levels of caffeine of any soft drink. To mask the bitterness of the caffeine, the formula for Mountain Dew also calls for higher amounts of sugar or high fructose corn syrup. Many children and adolescents in Appalachia routinely purchase large bottles of Mountain Dew and take frequent sips. According to dental health professionals, this would be the equivalent of bathing teeth in sugar for eight hours a day.

Seems like the issue is the sugar, not aspartame or the carbonation.

[T.A.M.]

I agree 100%, re: water.

However, I've always wondered about the health consequences of soda (I'm a Pepsi addict myself). Sugar/aspartame aside, the carbonation, and other chemicals, cause significant damage to teeth (Google: Mountain Dew mouth). I would not be surprised to learn it was dissolving my inner-organs also.

Well I drink an average of 4-5 cans of diet soda a day, and have been for a good 20 years. I am fine, and still have all my original teeth (in good form).

First thing a dentist will likely ask about wrt tooth decay is probably "How much sugar do you eat/drink?"

As for the carbonation, well given the stomach contains Hydrochloric Acid, I am guessing the carbonation has little effect, but I will plead ignorance to investigating it. As for how it might effect teeth and the esophagus, well I suppose in theory if you were pouring it into your mouth continuously it might do some damage over the long haul (similar to chronic alcohol abuse etc...).

TAM:)

[ElMondoHummus]

... As for the carbonation, well given the stomach contains Hydrochloric Acid, I am guessing the carbonation has little effect, but I will plead ignorance to investigating it. As for how it might effect teeth and the esophagus, well I suppose in theory if you were pouring it into your mouth continuously it might do some damage over the long haul (similar to chronic alcohol abuse etc...).

TAM:)

You're probably right, but it'd have to be some seriously consistent exposure, wouldn't it? I mean, I know that untreated GERD is associated with esophageal cancer, but from what little I know, it's also a case of having to have years (on the order of more than a decade, I think) of exposure and do nothing about it, right? And I'd think there's a difference between downing even multiple cans of soda per day and having stomach acid - which is always there - constantly bathing your gullet. Swallowing - even when drinking throughout the day - would be a transient phenomenon.

At least that's the way it comes off to me. I defer, of course, to medical professional like you on this. :D

[Mr.D]

Seems like the issue is the sugar, not aspartame or the carbonation.

Carbonated water is a weak acid (Carbonic Acid, IIRC), and many sodas have Citric or other acids added for tartness. I don't know how significant the effect is on teeth over a lifetime, though.

[Travis]

You're probably right, but it'd have to be some seriously consistent exposure, wouldn't it? I mean, I know that untreated GERD is associated with esophageal cancer, but from what little I know, it's also a case of having to have years (on the order of more than a decade, I think) of exposure and do nothing about it, right? And I'd think there's a difference between downing even multiple cans of soda per day and having stomach acid - which is always there - constantly bathing your gullet. Swallowing - even when drinking throughout the day - would be a transient phenomenon.

At least that's the way it comes off to me. I defer, of course, to medical professional like you on this. :D

I think most of the carbonation dissipates on entry to the mouth and is mostly gone by the time it gets into the lower esophagus. Unless you're really chugging it which I never do. It hurts.

[icerat]

IIRC when I looked at the raw data from Soffritti's rat cancer study, if you broke it down by sex it was only the female rats that had increases in lymphoma - the male rats on the largest aspartame dose actually had a decrease!

So I'm good ... :D

[T.A.M.]

You're probably right, but it'd have to be some seriously consistent exposure, wouldn't it? I mean, I know that untreated GERD is associated with esophageal cancer, but from what little I know, it's also a case of having to have years (on the order of more than a decade, I think) of exposure and do nothing about it, right? And I'd think there's a difference between downing even multiple cans of soda per day and having stomach acid - which is always there - constantly bathing your gullet. Swallowing - even when drinking throughout the day - would be a transient phenomenon.

At least that's the way it comes off to me. I defer, of course, to medical professional like you on this. :D

Yah typically untreated GERD can lead in some to a condition called "Barrett's Esophagus" and about 10% of those cases go on to Esophageal Cancer.

I will plead ignorance to actually studying the topic of "Carbonation effects on the GI tract" but from my knowledge of physiology it just doesn't make sense that it would cause much trouble. Given I have also not come across any warnings in the literature about Carbonation specifically, I think the carbonation itself is harmless.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Carbonated water is a weak acid (Carbonic Acid, IIRC), and many sodas have Citric or other acids added for tartness. I don't know how significant the effect is on teeth over a lifetime, though.

I would suspect little given the entire time the acid would remain in the mouth over a 24h period.

I think most of the carbonation dissipates on entry to the mouth and is mostly gone by the time it gets into the lower esophagus. Unless you're really chugging it which I never do. It hurts.

Agreed.

TAM:)

[ElMondoHummus]

I think most of the carbonation dissipates on entry to the mouth and is mostly gone by the time it gets into the lower esophagus. Unless you're really chugging it which I never do. It hurts.

Yah typically untreated GERD can lead in some to a condition called "Barrett's Esophagus" and about 10% of those cases go on to Esophageal Cancer.

I will plead ignorance to actually studying the topic of "Carbonation effects on the GI tract" but from my knowledge of physiology it just doesn't make sense that it would cause much trouble. Given I have also not come across any warnings in the literature about Carbonation specifically, I think the carbonation itself is harmless.

TAM:)

Yeah. That's pretty much my point. Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, and the like have been around long enough to where if there were physiological effects above and beyond tooth decay, it'd have become obvious. And the opposite is true: No indication whatsoever exists that the carbonation in such drinks has any such effect. And part of that has to be due to the fact that exposure is simply not constant; while jokes exist about how much pop some folks drink, nobody truly drinks it constantly. Just often.

And it's possible that another part can be due to the rapid dissipation of carbonation, like Travis said. Anyway, my point is somewhat in response to zaphod's: Exposure to the carbonic acid in these drinks is simply too transient for them to truly dissolve inner organs. Although when you drink enough of it, it sure can feel that way (don't ask me how I know :boggled::boxedin:).

----

@Travis: I hate to admit this, but I know that when you "chug" too much Coke at too fast a rate, the pressure from the carbonation can make you pass out. Yes, to my eternal shame this is personal knowledge, and an old (and long since replaced) dishwasher bore the scar of my impact. I couldn't burp it away while conscious, although I'm told I released one whopper of a belch on the way down. Problem is, I simply don't recall it; one moment, I was upright and actually seeing stars due to the pressure in my chest, the next I was coming too on the floor and the pressure was gone. We all do dumb things as teenagers. And I've never chugged any carbonated drink since.

Usually, you want your beverage stories-for-the-ages to involve something alcoholic, not something carbonated. :o:boggled:

[Travis]

That's an awesome soda story there. :D

I actually learned about the dissipation thing from Mythbusters. They were trying to rupture a stomach with soda and various other things and kept running in to the problem that soda, drunk normally, has very little carbonation left by the time it gets to the stomach. Also, even though I often drink carbonated beverages, I never belch or burp. That's because I drink it sensibly.

[T.A.M.]

That's an awesome soda story there. :D

I actually learned about the dissipation thing from Mythbusters. They were trying to rupture a stomach with soda and various other things and kept running in to the problem that soda, drunk normally, has very little carbonation left by the time it gets to the stomach. Also, even though I often drink carbonated beverages, I never belch or burp. That's because I drink it sensibly.

Wasn't that part of the one with the Menthos and coke episode?

TAM:)

[Travis]

Wasn't that part of the one with the Menthos and coke episode?

TAM:)

I'm not sure if it was the Mentos and diet coke or the pop rocks and soda one.

[T.A.M.]

a quick search of youtube produces only the spanish version...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfY_5Nn024s

TAM:)

[Travis]

I'll see if I can dig up an old clip of it.

[Cuddles]

Yeah. That's pretty much my point. Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, and the like have been around long enough to where if there were physiological effects above and beyond tooth decay, it'd have become obvious. And the opposite is true: No indication whatsoever exists that the carbonation in such drinks has any such effect.

A point to bear in mind is that while artificially carbonated soft drinks are a relatively recent invention, naturally carbonated beers, wines, ciders and so on have been around for thousands of years. If drinking fizzy drinks caused health problems, we'd probably have noticed by now.

[Mr.D]

I would suspect little given the entire time the acid would remain in the mouth over a 24h period.

But then, there's the old grade school "science fair experiment" of dissolving a tooth in cola.

[ElMondoHummus]

A point to bear in mind is that while artificially carbonated soft drinks are a relatively recent invention, naturally carbonated beers, wines, ciders and so on have been around for thousands of years. If drinking fizzy drinks caused health problems, we'd probably have noticed by now.

What Cuddles posts is true. There's already ample evidence from just the period of time that sodas/pops have been available to humanity. When you take into account the centuries of time that carbonation from non-Coke/Pepsi/etc. drinks have been consumed, you add that much more evidence.

There's just no detrimental effects from carbonation.