God’s Law is -- No miracles. Man and physics Rule Earth.

[Greatest I am]

God’s Law is -- No miracles. Man and physics Rule Earth.

I was praying the other day for a miracle.

http://photosthatchangedtheworld.com/starving-child-vulture/ (http://photosthatchangedtheworld.com/starving-child-vulture/)
I had discussed this topic elsewhere on the issue of the morality of dispatching this poor soul, if no way was found to maintain or save it’s/his life.

This type of preventable woes are the morally toughest issues to resolve.
It struck me as odd, that whoever had dominion over the earth, presumably God, did not just use a miracle. He does have an unlimited amount and the above, or something equally as evil, happens thousands of times a day. Even Satan can always use another sinner and if he had dominion then even he would not allow such useless death. Hard to maintain God as the good guy when Satan kills less by far.
I then remembered that God decreed that no miracles would be allowed on earth and that, even though Jesus did not agree, my opinion only, His law was eternal. God has to exert authority on these occasions and others, like Noah’s flood, when Jesus does not step up and punish.
This took us to miracles and magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwyx8UoApOE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwyx8UoApOE&feature=related)

There is ample scriptural support to know that God does not want magic or miracles here and that those who do magic should be put to death because they would take away, as far as scripture is concerned, our free will. A gift from God.
A rather silly notion. Freedom is taken, it cannot be given.
Regardless of the reason, the law is there. No magic or miracles allowed.
My position is this.
The law of God, in this case is unjust.
Next thing you know, God will have us discriminate against Gays, women and slaves, can’t have that now can we? Oops, digressed.

My position is that man cannot tell the difference in magic or miracles regardless of the source be it from a witch, or a God.
It is possible that we are killing our God as He is reborn.
He would of course return as what we would mistake as a witch.
Now I do not believe in this. I believe that God does not need to return, He gets things right the first time every time. I digress again.
The Bible seems to be speaking in too directions on miracles and magic.
It says to kill magic makers and at the same time tells us to believe in a God who’s only possible proof of Godliness, is to be a magic maker.
What the hell is going on?
If God has outlawed miracles and magic, Is that why we are left to all die?
Is that why He has not done miracles in 2000 years?
He will not break His law.
1 Corinthians 13:11 (http://forums.randi.org/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=13&verse=11&version=9&context=verse)
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
The questions then are these and should I would apply the above rule,
Has God decreed no miracles or magic?
Do you believe in miracles and magic?
Would a God with miracles and Dominion not act?
Should those who believe in such nonsense as miracles and magic be told with firmness that they are believing in foolishness?


Regards
DL

[Phrost]

Well then.

[paximperium]

We know nature exist. Why call it god?

[Marquis de Carabas]

God's law seems remarkably similar to having no god. How convenient.

[slingblade]

I do not believe in a god or gods.

I don't necessarily care that you do, so long as your belief harms no one and doesn't directly affect me in a negative way.

But yeah, I do think you're awfully foolish, since you ask.

[laca]

Small correction: man and physics rule the universe.

[Greatest I am]

We know nature exist. Why call it god?

The ancients were not calling nature God. They were calling a part of nature that they did not understand God. They then attributed creation etc. to It and the **** ups followed.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

God's law seems remarkably similar to having no god. How convenient.

From the physical side this is how we should think. From the spiritual side, not.

God is there to help our minds, not our bodies.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I do not believe in a god or gods.

I don't necessarily care that you do, so long as your belief harms no one and doesn't directly affect me in a negative way.

But yeah, I do think you're awfully foolish, since you ask.

Eh, I do not believe in miracles and magic.

Regards
DL

[paximperium]

The ancients were not calling nature God. They were calling a part of nature that they did not understand God. They then attributed creation etc. to It and the **** ups followed.
Why call ignorance of nature, god?

[paximperium]

From the physical side this is how we should think. From the spiritual side, not. What do you mean by "spiritual"? That word is as useful and descriptive as "god".

God is there to help our minds, not our bodies.
In what way? How?

[Pure Argent]

God’s Law is -- No miracles. Man and physics Rule Earth.

Ivory Tower argument.

You can't argue against it, because there's no basis in logic. You can't argue FOR it either, but the main point is that you can't disprove it. It has absolutely nothing to do with reality.

Untouchable. Hence, Ivory Tower.

[Marquis de Carabas]

From the physical side this is how we should think. From the spiritual side, not.

God is there to help our minds, not our bodies.

Regards
DL
Prove there's a spiritual side first, then worry about whether god's there to futz with it.

[Toke]

I do not believe in a god or gods.

I don't necessarily care that you do, so long as your belief harms no one and doesn't directly affect me in a negative way.

But yeah, I do think you're awfully foolish, since you ask.

Well put.

[Kurse]

If a man used magic on earth, it is because God would have placed magic there for the man to use. Pretty much like a mousetrap.

But why would he forbid the use of it and set it here on earth, and the way to set magic is with magic (if it existed).

I'm a Christian myself, but for some reason Logic comes before Faith (Guess I'm Human lol), and every now and again I ask myself if Jesus went to Hell because he used magic and caused miracles >_<.

[slingblade]

Eh, I do not believe in miracles and magic.


Nor do I. What's your point in saying this as a reply to what I wrote?

[godless dave]

God’s Law is -- No miracles. Man and physics Rule Earth.

So why even bring in this "god" concept? It seems superfluous.

[Freethinker]

From the physical side this is how we should think. From the spiritual side, not.

God is there to help our minds, not our bodies.

Regards
DL

Are you saying the concept of god exists to help our minds, or that god actually exists and he takes care of us spiritually but not physically?

[Tricky]

I would like to examine God's copyright on The Laws Of Physics. From what I understand via Franko, The Logical Goddess has a previous claim.

[hamelekim]

God’s Law is -- No miracles. Man and physics Rule Earth.

I was praying the other day for a miracle.

http://photosthatchangedtheworld.com/starving-child-vulture/ (http://photosthatchangedtheworld.com/starving-child-vulture/)
I had discussed this topic elsewhere on the issue of the morality of dispatching this poor soul, if no way was found to maintain or save it’s/his life.

This type of preventable woes are the morally toughest issues to resolve.
It struck me as odd, that whoever had dominion over the earth, presumably God, did not just use a miracle. He does have an unlimited amount and the above, or something equally as evil, happens thousands of times a day. Even Satan can always use another sinner and if he had dominion then even he would not allow such useless death. Hard to maintain God as the good guy when Satan kills less by far.
I then remembered that God decreed that no miracles would be allowed on earth and that, even though Jesus did not agree, my opinion only, His law was eternal. God has to exert authority on these occasions and others, like Noah’s flood, when Jesus does not step up and punish.
This took us to miracles and magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwyx8UoApOE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwyx8UoApOE&feature=related)

There is ample scriptural support to know that God does not want magic or miracles here and that those who do magic should be put to death because they would take away, as far as scripture is concerned, our free will. A gift from God.
A rather silly notion. Freedom is taken, it cannot be given.
Regardless of the reason, the law is there. No magic or miracles allowed.
My position is this.
The law of God, in this case is unjust.
Next thing you know, God will have us discriminate against Gays, women and slaves, can’t have that now can we? Oops, digressed.

My position is that man cannot tell the difference in magic or miracles regardless of the source be it from a witch, or a God.
It is possible that we are killing our God as He is reborn.
He would of course return as what we would mistake as a witch.
Now I do not believe in this. I believe that God does not need to return, He gets things right the first time every time. I digress again.
The Bible seems to be speaking in too directions on miracles and magic.
It says to kill magic makers and at the same time tells us to believe in a God who’s only possible proof of Godliness, is to be a magic maker.
What the hell is going on?
If God has outlawed miracles and magic, Is that why we are left to all die?
Is that why He has not done miracles in 2000 years?
He will not break His law.
1 Corinthians 13:11 (http://forums.randi.org/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=13&verse=11&version=9&context=verse)
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
The questions then are these and should I would apply the above rule,
Has God decreed no miracles or magic?
Do you believe in miracles and magic?
Would a God with miracles and Dominion not act?
Should those who believe in such nonsense as miracles and magic be told with firmness that they are believing in foolishness?


Regards
DL

How do you explain the Book of Acts, where the Apostles and others who were filled with the Holy Spirit performed miracles. Not average every day magic tricks but true miracles?

It is true that there are a lack of public miracles these days, but I reason that is due to the lack of understanding of God's word in this world, and his will, rather than the idea that God doesn't allow miracles to occur.

I do wonder though. How do you explain the healing's that occur in terms of people with terminal cancer who find one day that they are completely healed of Cancer?

The doctors have no explanation except spontaneous remission, which is another word for miracle.

as for 1 Corinthians 13:11, you have to read the entire chapter to understand its meaning.

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have(A) prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith,(B) so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3(C) If I give away all I have, and(D) if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4(E) Love is patient and(F) kind; love(G) does not envy or boast; it(H) is not arrogant 5or rude. It(I) does not insist on its own way; it(J) is not irritable or resentful;[b] 6it(K) does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but(L) rejoices with the truth. 7(M) Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things,(N) endures all things.

8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For(O) we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but(P) when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For(Q) now we see in a mirror dimly, but(R) then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as(S) I have been fully known.

13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

He's talking about love, and the particular line of text you quote is between two others which are comparisons as well. You honestly think that he's referencing belief in the supernatural?

[hamelekim]

If a man used magic on earth, it is because God would have placed magic there for the man to use. Pretty much like a mousetrap.

But why would he forbid the use of it and set it here on earth, and the way to set magic is with magic (if it existed).

I'm a Christian myself, but for some reason Logic comes before Faith (Guess I'm Human lol), and every now and again I ask myself if Jesus went to Hell because he used magic and caused miracles >_<.

magic is using the power of fallen angels to perform miracles. God didn't place "it" on earth for us to use, or to be tempted by. God doesn't tempt, that is very clear in the Bible. He may allow others to tempt, like Satan, for his own purposes, but God does not tempt. If he did tempt people then he wouldn't be perfect.

[hamelekim]

Prove there's a spiritual side first, then worry about whether god's there to futz with it.

You cannot prove it through science, it's only through personal experience that you will find the spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)

14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The only way you will find it is if you want to find it, or God wants you to find it.

Deuteronomy 29:4

4But to this day(A) the LORD has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear.

[Kurse]

magic is using the power of fallen angels to perform miracles. God didn't place "it" on earth for us to use, or to be tempted by. God doesn't tempt, that is very clear in the Bible. He may allow others to tempt, like Satan, for his own purposes, but God does not tempt. If he did tempt people then he wouldn't be perfect.

Then Jesus obtained the powers of a fallen angel?
And when an angel 'falls', why are the powers stripped from them?

Also, if God was perfect, then he wouldn't have a made Eve to tempt Adam. Aaaaand I have a feeling he should have made the tree a bit taller.

[hamelekim]

Then Jesus obtained the powers of a fallen angel?
And when an angel 'falls', why are the powers stripped from them?

No...

Humans do not have powers as the angels and of course God have. Jesus, being God, has the ability to do anything he wants within his nature. He created the laws of physics and is not bound by them.

Humans on the other hand are bound by physics, and without some outside being lending a human their power, such as the Holy Spirit, or demons, it is impossible for humans to perform magic.

Also, if God was perfect, then he wouldn't have a made Eve to tempt Adam. Aaaaand I have a feeling he should have made the tree a bit taller.

Given what we know of the nature of God, do you truly believe that God isn't perfect? Or that everything that has happened wasn't planned by him, and that the plan is perfect in nature?

God cannot make mistakes since he knows every single possible outcome, and exists outside of time and space. He created everything in existence and knows the nature of every single thing in existence.

We see the fall of man as a mistake, but God allowed it to happen because it was all in his plan.

The Bible says that the death of Jesus on the cross was planned from before the foundation of the world. Before any of it was in existence God planned for himself, Jesus, to die on the cross.

We get a sense of why he allowed it to happen in the following verses.

Romans 9

10And not only so, but(S) also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of(T) him who calls— 12she was told,(U) "The older will serve the younger." 13As it is written,(V) "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

14What shall we say then?(W) Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses,(X) "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh,(Y) "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For(Z) who can resist his will?" 20But who are you, O man,(AA) to answer back to God?(AB) Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21(AC) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump(AD) one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience(AE) vessels of wrath(AF) prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known(AG) the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he(AH) has prepared beforehand for glory— 24even us whom he(AI) has called,(AJ) not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

It seems that God allowed all of this to happen so that he could be fully glorified in every aspect of his being. His Judgement of the unrighteous, and his mercy in saving some for glorification.

The only thing that we have to worry about, on an individual basis, is to make the right choice.

[Kurse]

No...

Humans do not have powers as the angels and of course God have. Jesus, being God, has the ability to do anything he wants within his nature. He created the laws of physics and is not bound by them.

Humans on the other hand are bound by physics, and without some outside being lending a human their power, such as the Holy Spirit, or demons, it is impossible for humans to perform magic.


Given what we know of the nature of God, do you truly believe that God isn't perfect? Or that everything that has happened wasn't planned by him, and that the plan is perfect in nature?

God cannot make mistakes since he knows every single possible outcome, and exists outside of time and space. He created everything in existence and knows the nature of every single thing in existence.

We see the fall of man as a mistake, but God allowed it to happen because it was all in his plan.

The Bible says that the death of Jesus on the cross was planned from before the foundation of the world. Before any of it was in existence God planned for himself, Jesus, to die on the cross.

We get a sense of why he allowed it to happen in the following verses.

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

It seems that God allowed all of this to happen so that he could be fully glorified in every aspect of his being. His Judgement of the unrighteous, and his mercy in saving some for glorification.

The only thing that we have to worry about, on an individual basis, is to make the right choice.

I think I'm going to like argueing with you, not because I'm a dick, but mainly because you didn't bite my head off just now (and i hope you wont later on xD).

I was about to ask why, if he was perfect, that Jesus would die. But it seems like you caught me before hand ;).

But, being that Jesus, even though he was God, was still human. Why would he demenstrate that he wants us to strive to be like Him, when he forbides us from creating miracles?

And what about abortions (yes I'm bringing this up, but not going to talk about it, just using it as an example)? Why would he plan for men and women to take a life before it even entered the world?

[dafydd]

I do wonder though. How do you explain the healing's that occur in terms of people with terminal cancer who find one day that they are completely healed of Cancer?

Why does your sick,twisted god give people cancer in the first place? Cut down on the preaching and try and give us a sensible argument,just for a change.Stop posting screeds of meaningless garbage from the bible,do you think that anyone here actually reads them? I read the bible once,and that was enough.

[RossFW]

How do you explain the healing's that occur in terms of people with terminal cancer who find one day that they are completely healed of Cancer?


How do you explain the ones that DON"T?

[laca]

How do you explain the Book of Acts, where the Apostles and others who were filled with the Holy Spirit performed miracles. Not average every day magic tricks but true miracles?


No. Fairy tales.


It is true that there are a lack of public miracles these days, but I reason that is due to the lack of understanding of God's word in this world, and his will, rather than the idea that God doesn't allow miracles to occur.


Wow. Just wow. Talk about delusion...


I do wonder though. How do you explain the healing's that occur in terms of people with terminal cancer who find one day that they are completely healed of Cancer?

The doctors have no explanation except spontaneous remission, which is another word for miracle.


No, it is not. Back when people had no idea of gravity, was it a miracle that stuff fell on the ground? Just because something does not currently have a scientific explanation does not make it a miracle.

[dafydd]

No. Fairy tales.



Wow. Just wow. Talk about delusion...



No, it is not. Back when people had no idea of gravity, was it a miracle that stuff fell on the ground? Just because something does not currently have a scientific explanation does not make it a miracle.

Hear hear

[Tricky]

How do you explain the Book of Acts, where the Apostles and others who were filled with the Holy Spirit performed miracles. Not average every day magic tricks but true miracles?
The same way I explain Zeus turning himself into a swan and impregnating Leda.

[Lothian]

Has God decreed no miracles or magic?
There is no god.
Do you believe in miracles and magic?Not from God.
Would a God with miracles and Dominion not act?Who cares there is no god.

Should those who believe in such nonsense as miracles and magic be told with firmness that they are believing in foolishness?Those who believe in such nonsense as god should be told with firmness that they are believing in foolishness.

[laca]

No...

Humans do not have powers as the angels and of course God have. Jesus, being God, has the ability to do anything he wants within his nature. He created the laws of physics and is not bound by them.

Humans on the other hand are bound by physics, and without some outside being lending a human their power, such as the Holy Spirit, or demons, it is impossible for humans to perform magic.



Angels, gods, spirits, demons, magic... Fairy tales, man.


Given what we know of the nature of God, do you truly believe that God isn't perfect? Or that everything that has happened wasn't planned by him, and that the plan is perfect in nature?


Do you really want to go there? Trust me, you do not want to get into a discussion about god being perfect and its perfect plan on this forum.

The rest of your post is also a big stinking load of crap. IMO.

[Dale H]

I do wonder though. How do you explain the healing's that occur in terms of people with terminal cancer who find one day that they are completely healed of Cancer?

I don't. I don't know how this occurs. It is one of a great many things I do not about the universe, and I am comfortable with that. I do not feel the need to fill in the gaps in my knowledge with an imaginary father figure, like some 15th century cartographer drawing sea monsters in the margins of his maps.

Dale H

[RenaissanceBiker]

The Church of God the Utterly Indifferent.
/Sirens of Titan

The only way you will find it is if you want to find it, or God wants you to find it.
Deuteronomy 29:4

4But to this day(A) the LORD has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear.


So your God doesn't want me to believe in him?

[Beerina]

God's law seems remarkably similar to having no god. How convenient.

Less sarcastically, if you observe the history of religion, the idea of a "hands off" god is the philosophical result of too many demands for proof.

It came about in response to such demands, rather than a-priori, out the door.

[Pure Argent]

If a man used magic on earth, it is because God would have placed magic there for the man to use. Pretty much like a mousetrap.

But why would he forbid the use of it and set it here on earth, and the way to set magic is with magic (if it existed).

Actually, it seems pretty in-character for him to me. Sex is a sin - sex is awesome; gluttony is a sin - food is awesome; pride is a sin - self-esteem is awesome...

I'm a Christian myself, but for some reason Logic comes before Faith (Guess I'm Human lol), and every now and again I ask myself if Jesus went to Hell because he used magic and caused miracles >_<.

Well, there was the whole thing about him being the boss's kid, so he was probably exempt from most rules.

How do you explain the Book of Acts, where the Apostles and others who were filled with the Holy Spirit performed miracles. Not average every day magic tricks but true miracles?

The same way we explain the rest of the Bible: IT'S FICTION.

It is true that there are a lack of public miracles these days, but I reason that is due to the lack of understanding of God's word in this world, and his will, rather than the idea that God doesn't allow miracles to occur.

Yeah.
Right.
That's not self-delusion at all.

I do wonder though. How do you explain the healing's that occur in terms of people with terminal cancer who find one day that they are completely healed of Cancer?

The same way I explain anyone who suddenly goes into remission, terminal or not.
And how do YOU explain all the people that die of cancer?

The doctors have no explanation except spontaneous remission, which is another word for miracle.

Nope. Like a lot of theists, you're stretching the definitions of "god", "worship" and "miracle" to include anything and everything.

as for 1 Corinthians 13:11, you have to read the entire chapter to understand its meaning.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

<snip preaching>

He's talking about love, and the particular line of text you quote is between two others which are comparisons as well. You honestly think that he's referencing belief in the supernatural?

Yep. 'Cause he IS.

magic is using the power of fallen angels to perform miracles. God didn't place "it" on earth for us to use, or to be tempted by. God doesn't tempt, that is very clear in the Bible.

LOGIC FAIL

Garden of Eden. Job.

He may allow others to tempt, like Satan, for his own purposes, but God does not tempt. If he did tempt people then he wouldn't be perfect.

Wait. What?
God doesn't tempt, but he allows other people to do it for him? By that logic, someone who hires an assassin isn't guilty of murder.
And you consider a genocidal, egotistical maniac to be perfect?

You cannot prove it through science, it's only through personal experience that you will find the spiritual.

But you can't prove that.

<snip more useless preaching>

Here's a hint: DON'T USE SCRIPTURE. It doesn't convince anyone.

No...

Humans do not have powers as the angels and of course God have. Jesus, being God, has the ability to do anything he wants within his nature. He created the laws of physics and is not bound by them.

Humans on the other hand are bound by physics, and without some outside being lending a human their power, such as the Holy Spirit, or demons, it is impossible for humans to perform magic.

About as logical an explanation of magic as I've ever seen. Well done.
But... just because it's the best explanation doesn't mean that it's an acceptable one. You can't prove that magic is possible at all. The only "recorded occurences" of magic (outside Lovecraft, who is 100% truthful in his tellings) happen in the Bible. And you can't use scripture to prove scripture.

Given what we know of the nature of God, do you truly believe that God isn't perfect? Or that everything that has happened wasn't planned by him, and that the plan is perfect in nature?

Yeah, that's about it.
I believe that your god is
- fictitious
- sadistic
- judgmental
- evil
- murderous
- jealous
- egotistical
etc.

God cannot make mistakes since he knows every single possible outcome, and exists outside of time and space. He created everything in existence and knows the nature of every single thing in existence.

Then what does free will matter?

We see the fall of man as a mistake, but God allowed it to happen because it was all in his plan.

The Bible says that the death of Jesus on the cross was planned from before the foundation of the world. Before any of it was in existence God planned for himself, Jesus, to die on the cross.

We get a sense of why he allowed it to happen in the following verses.

<snip even MORE preaching>

It seems that God allowed all of this to happen so that he could be fully glorified in every aspect of his being. His Judgement of the unrighteous, and his mercy in saving some for glorification.

Proving my point about him being egotistical. Thanks.

The only thing that we have to worry about, on an individual basis, is to make the right choice.

But god already knows what choice we will make. So are we really making the choice?

I don't. I don't know how this occurs. It is one of a great many things I do not about the universe, and I am comfortable with that. I do not feel the need to fill in the gaps in my knowledge with an imaginary father figure, like some 15th century cartographer drawing sea monsters in the margins of his maps.

Dale H

Well said.

[Freethinker]

I do wonder though. How do you explain the healing's that occur in terms of people with terminal cancer who find one day that they are completely healed of Cancer?

The doctors have no explanation except spontaneous remission, which is another word for miracle.

How do YOU explain that god never heals any condition that never heals on its own? Quite a coincidence.

God has never healed an amputee, has he? Are you claiming that in the entire history of humanity that there has never been an amputee who was a good enough Christian who prayed hard enough and long enough for god to regrow an amputated limb? Not even one little pinky finger ever in the entire history of humanity. Does god hate amputees?

He supposedly cures cancer on a regular basis, but never even once has he healed an amputee.

Spontaneous remission is NOT another word for miracle. In fact, spontaneous means that it happened without cause, exactly the opposite of a miracle, which happened because god did it.

[Greatest I am]

Why call ignorance of nature, god?

We tend to label all things.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

What do you mean by "spiritual"? That word is as useful and descriptive as "god".

This is true. It as well as God have a variety of interpretations. Choose your flavor.

In what way? How?

In My case I was chastised to think more demographically as well as being to or confirmed that my way of thinking of reality and religious maters was sound.


Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Prove there's a spiritual side first, then worry about whether god's there to futz with it.

Any man that looks at the world or history and does not acknowledge that man has a spiritual/religious aspect to his psyche is not too bright.

Regards
DL

[paiute]

It's all in here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19550880/GUT-The-Grand-Unified-Theory-A-oneact-play-with-seven-blackouts

[Beerina]

Spontaneous remission is NOT another word for miracle. In fact, spontaneous means that it happened without cause, exactly the opposite of a miracle, which happened because god did it.

And as House might say,


There is a cause -- we just haven't figured it out yet.
http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=139&pictureid=997

[Greatest I am]

If a man used magic on earth, it is because God would have placed magic there for the man to use. Pretty much like a mousetrap.

But why would he forbid the use of it and set it here on earth, and the way to set magic is with magic (if it existed).

I'm a Christian myself, but for some reason Logic comes before Faith (Guess I'm Human lol), and every now and again I ask myself if Jesus went to Hell because he used magic and caused miracles >_<.

I do not have to wonder about that. I see Jesus as an archetypal figure only. I do not think He ever existed as shown in scripture.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Nor do I. What's your point in saying this as a reply to what I wrote?

Just showing my agreement on that one point.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

So why even bring in this "god" concept? It seems superfluous.

Because many believe in this type of nonsense and it is killing many with God's blessing.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Are you saying the concept of god exists to help our minds, or that god actually exists and he takes care of us spiritually but not physically?

The God I know is not the miracle working super God of the Bible. It is just a cosmic consciousness. Pure thought. Our next evolutionary step.

He has no power of miracles and cannot help us physically even if It/He wanted to. It can help the thinking of those minds that find it.

There may be some indirect physical help in the sense that our minds do control, to some extent, bio feedback etc., some bodily functions and perhaps can happen to some. It is not that way in my case and this is pure speculation.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

How do you explain the Book of Acts, where the Apostles and others who were filled with the Holy Spirit performed miracles. Not average every day magic tricks but true miracles?

It is true that there are a lack of public miracles these days, but I reason that is due to the lack of understanding of God's word in this world, and his will, rather than the idea that God doesn't allow miracles to occur.

I do wonder though. How do you explain the healing's that occur in terms of people with terminal cancer who find one day that they are completely healed of Cancer?

The doctors have no explanation except spontaneous remission, which is another word for miracle.

as for 1 Corinthians 13:11, you have to read the entire chapter to understand its meaning.

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have(A) prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith,(B) so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3(C) If I give away all I have, and(D) if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4(E) Love is patient and(F) kind; love(G) does not envy or boast; it(H) is not arrogant 5or rude. It(I) does not insist on its own way; it(J) is not irritable or resentful;[B] 6it(K) does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but(L) rejoices with the truth. 7(M) Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things,(N) endures all things.

8Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9For(O) we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but(P) when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12For(Q) now we see in a mirror dimly, but(R) then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as(S) I have been fully known.

13So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

He's talking about love, and the particular line of text you quote is between two others which are comparisons as well. You honestly think that he's referencing belief in the supernatural?

It may not specify but it is good advice for those who believe, as you seem to, that people can walk on water and that snakes and donkeys can really talk.

I suggest that any God who claims to love mankind, would not sit back and allow what is going on in the links above.

To do so would make that God immoral.

He is either immoral or does not have access to miracles and if He did use any here, His own WORD says that we must not suffer Him to live.

Catch 22.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

magic is using the power of fallen angels to perform miracles. God didn't place "it" on earth for us to use, or to be tempted by. God doesn't tempt, that is very clear in the Bible. He may allow others to tempt, like Satan, for his own purposes, but God does not tempt. If he did tempt people then he wouldn't be perfect.

Did God not cast these angels and Satan to earth?
Scripture indicates even in Genesis that He gave evil full access to man beginning with the taking snake.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

hamelekim

"The Bible says that the death of Jesus on the cross was planned from before the foundation of the world. Before any of it was in existence God planned for himself, Jesus, to die on the cross."

It would take some kind of idiot God to plan His own murder before forgiving man instead of just forgiving them outright.

Jesus to the Father, eh this part where I die, can we have you die?

Does this sound like a good plan to anyone?
Does anyone believe that Gods can die?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

hamelekim

"God cannot make mistakes"

You only repent for mistakes.
Scripture shows God repenting for creating man just before using genocide on us.

If not a mistake, then why use a genocidal flood to kill *********** near all of us.

Regards
DL

[RenaissanceBiker]

I killed a god once. Wait, I think it was a dog. It might have been a 'possum or a raccoon. Whatever, it's dead and I killed it.

[Toke]

I heard of at least one miraculous healing of bowel cancer where it was self diagnosed from blood in the toilet bowl.
See hemorrhoid.:D

And yes, the amputees pose a serous problem to faith healing.

[Kurse]

hamelekim

"God cannot make mistakes"

You only repent for mistakes.
Scripture shows God repenting for creating man just before using genocide on us.

If not a mistake, then why use a genocidal flood to kill *********** near all of us.

Regards
DL

Plus, you know SOMEWHERE down the line a bunch of incest was practiced. Adam and Eve were the only two, then Noah and his family. They got it on!!