This is why religious fundamentalists give me headaches...

[Sabrina]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215100/?gt1=43002

According to this story, a young, formerly Muslim girl who converted to Christianity claims to be in fear for her life from her still Muslim parents, whom she says will conduct an "honor killing" (apostasy) against her simply because she converted to Christianity.

I find this to be incredibly stupid for several reasons; according to the article, she converted to Christianity at age 14 (she's now 17); that's three years ago. Her parents are not devout Muslims; they let her be a cheerleader in school, and did not attend mosque regularly. That's not to say their faith is any less, but it's fairly clear that her family does not consist of adherents to sharia law, so she should not be in fear for her life. However, from what I can tell, her devotion to Christianity smacks of fundamentalism and makes me wonder if she's been (I so hate this term, but can't think of a better one) "brainwashed" into thinking her family will kill her by the very people who helped her convert religions.

I have issues with any person espousing fundamentalist religious ideals, but this whole situation to me simply screams that this poor girl is being used by individuals who, in their fervent, religious zeal, think they absolutely have to get everyone to think the way they do or else. Doesn't matter which type of religious fundamentalism it is, using an impressionable young girl to advance your agenda is morally repugnant to me. I'm curious though to hear what everyone else thinks.

[Mister Agenda]

Yes, on the surface this seems to be a case where an outsider is telling some teenager girl 'Look, it says right here in the Q'uran, the holy book of your parents, that they are to kill you if you become apostate. Their faith requires it!' Of course the OT has similar requirements, that have been discarded because, well, they're barbaric. The parents say they want her back, they won't hurt her, and they won't make her be a Muslim. In the absence of a history of violence, they should be taken at their word. Honor killings are extremely rare among Muslims in America--not unknown, but rare. At the least, the child should be removed to a neutral fosterage rather than kept by Christian extremists.

[bokonon]

I'm willing to wait for the facts to be presented in court. Maybe she will turn out to be Fundamentalist Christianity's "Tawana Brawley" and maybe she has legitimate concerns. Based on the little I've read, the former seems more likely, but we'll see.

What is clear, though, is that there is a virulent anti-Muslim faction which is using this case to fan the flames of bigotry. It is sad to see an impressionable teenager being exploited this way, and even if she's returned to her family, it will surely only be temporary. She's 17 now, and will soon be able to make decisions as an adult. I expect she'll choose to be estranged from her Muslim family at that point, and perhaps become some kind of personality in the Christian church talk circuit. Perhaps when she's in her late 20s, she'll have another change of heart, and desire reconciliation. Lots of rebellious teens do.

[Dancing David]

Well, maybe they can call Janet Reno down to Florida...

[themusicteacher]

I was just reading about this and it makes me see red that these Christian Fundies are being so mendacious in their accusations. It is such a bald attempt to fan the flames of hatred and bigotry. All of their accusations appear baseless and without merit but it really doesn't matter to them what sort of nonsense they espouse as long as they get the word out that some poor Christian is being persecuted by those vile, vicious Muslim's. This girl sounds as though she's accusing her parents well after the fact and being fed fabrications by her "friends." This all reeks of crocodile tears and manufactured outrage, once again, against the "other." Perhaps the facts will bear out the real story but this lawyer, John Stemberger (who was involved in the Schiavo case), sounds as though he cares very little about the law in favor of being an activist on his religions part.

As long as the meme gets out there that a young girl who just accepted Jeebus Christ into her heart is being threatened with death by her fanatical Muslim parents, the facts won't matter. People will have heard what they wanted to hear and come the conclusions they want to believe are true: "See, all those Muslim's hate us and are engaging in Holy War against Christ! These people would kill their own daughter! They're vicious murderers and enemies of Christianity (and, of course by extension, America)! Oh, and they started it!" This is the tactic that's been used in the healthcare pseudo-debate, as a pseudo-argument against Barack Obama during (and after) his presidential campaign and we've seen the ghastly conclusions of this type of hatred-masquerading-as-outrage concern-trolling in the murder of pro-choice doctors.

These are dangerous people who poison everything they touch and truly wish to incite racial and religious division and hatred. If only they actually practiced the religion they preached...

[GreNME]

Well, the frequency of attendance at mosque doesn't necessarily reflect on whether the parents are highly religious or not. The mosque is not like a church, where people go to get a weekly lesson from a preacher. A mosque is more like a communal prayer and discussion location, where people can gather and pray. It's not completely different than churches, as both are used for social purposes as well as religious ones, but attendance isn't as mandatory as it would be a Catholic or fundy Christian one.

That said, the story sounds to me like the girl has been brainwashed into thinking her parents are worse than they actually are, to the point where (not unlike a cult does) they encouraged her to separate herself from all of her family and former support groups.

[geni]

Teenagers run away from home from time to time for all sorts of reasons. Less usual for them to be then used by any part of the political spectrum.

[HeyLeroy]

Yes, on the surface this seems to be a case where an outsider is telling some teenager girl 'Look, it says right here in the Q'uran, the holy book of your parents, that they are to kill you if you become apostate. Their faith requires it!' Of course the OT has similar requirements, that have been discarded because, well, they're barbaric. The parents say they want her back, they won't hurt her, and they won't make her be a Muslim. In the absence of a history of violence, they should be taken at their word. Honor killings are extremely rare among Muslims in America--not unknown, but rare. At the least, the child should be removed to a neutral fosterage rather than kept by Christian extremists.

Don't take this as some sort of refutation; I agree that honour killings are extremely rare among Muslims in North America.

Here's a recent one: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1820323

Family's plans to murder daughters, first wife hatched months before: police

...The small detail in the indictment added yet another twist in a tragic story that appears to border on the bizarre -- including tearful displays of mourning by those who are now accused of murder, allegations from relatives that it may all have been over honour, and a revelation that the adult initially described as a cousin was actually a first wife....

[Sabrina]

That's the root of my issue with this though; that this poor girl appears to be being used to promote the "good" of Christianity and the "evil" of Islam. Neither religion is evil or good in and of itself; it becomes one or the other the second someone interprets something their own way in the religion's religious teachings.

I just wish that we as a species wouldn't demonize, for lack of a better term, another religion without taking the time to learn what it's really about.

[Marduk]

I just wish that we as a species wouldn't demonize, for lack of a better term, another religion without taking the time to learn what it's really about.

allow me to sum up two variations on Judaism

1. Christianity : God has given you free will, now do as God says or he will torture you for all eternity
2. Islam : Allah has given you free will, now do as Allah says or he will torture you for all eternity

now feel free to demonise, its what God/Allah has in store for our genitals anyway
for all eternity
:p

[geni]

allow me to sum up two variations on Judaism

1. Christianity : God has given you free will, now do as God says or he will torture you for all eternity
2. Islam : Allah has given you free will, now do as Allah says or he will torture you for all eternity

now feel free to demonise, its what God/Allah has in store for our genitals anyway
for all eternity
:p

Nah. Christianity will kinda let you get away with breaking gods laws as long as you continue to belive in him. Islam is less clear on the point.

[Marduk]

Nah. Christianity will kinda let you get away with breaking gods laws as long as you continue to belive in him.

so YHWH has a better publicist, hes still gonna have your nuts put on a spike and watch you buuuuurrrrn
;)

[kerikiwi]

Nah. Christianity will kinda let you get away with breaking gods laws as long as you continue to belive in him. Islam is less clear on the point.

By no means all christians would agree with you. Ditto for muslims.

[Sabrina]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/14/florida.muslim.convert/index.html

UPDATE: The girl's been directed by an Orlando judge to return to Ohio pending clarification of her immigration status. No word on whether that means she'll be back at home with her family (the article is a little unclear in that aspect) or not.

I predict that the fundies in this case will eventually be shown to be full of hot air and will become the laughingstock of the fundamental circuit. Even better, perhaps Rifqa will finally realize that she's been duped and will renounce her association with the people who are using her and her situation.

[Hux]

If it turns out her entire family are there illegally then dad is gonna be pissed at her blowing the gaff. The authorities say they have investigated and can see no clear reason to suspect she is under any threat whatsoever.

Such reprisals real or imagined , I am afraid, tend to happen most other places except America.

[UnrepentantSinner]

My thread on this is here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=152859) but didn't generate much heat back in early Sept. I still remain skeptical about how dire her plight really is.

[Ethnikos]

My thread on this is here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=152859) but didn't generate much heat back in early Sept. I still remain skeptical about how dire her plight really is.I decide one day to turn the TV on and I am so lucky as to hear that so-called recorded phone call. Isn't there like some real news somewhere they can report on? I guess they just sit around and wait for someone to hand them something.

[hamelekim]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215100/?gt1=43002

According to this story, a young, formerly Muslim girl who converted to Christianity claims to be in fear for her life from her still Muslim parents, whom she says will conduct an "honor killing" (apostasy) against her simply because she converted to Christianity.

I find this to be incredibly stupid for several reasons; according to the article, she converted to Christianity at age 14 (she's now 17); that's three years ago. Her parents are not devout Muslims; they let her be a cheerleader in school, and did not attend mosque regularly. That's not to say their faith is any less, but it's fairly clear that her family does not consist of adherents to sharia law, so she should not be in fear for her life. However, from what I can tell, her devotion to Christianity smacks of fundamentalism and makes me wonder if she's been (I so hate this term, but can't think of a better one) "brainwashed" into thinking her family will kill her by the very people who helped her convert religions.

I have issues with any person espousing fundamentalist religious ideals, but this whole situation to me simply screams that this poor girl is being used by individuals who, in their fervent, religious zeal, think they absolutely have to get everyone to think the way they do or else. Doesn't matter which type of religious fundamentalism it is, using an impressionable young girl to advance your agenda is morally repugnant to me. I'm curious though to hear what everyone else thinks.

That has little to do with religious conviction, and everything to do with a lack of common sense.

If a person isn't a fundamentalist then they don't really believe their religion, that's all I have to say. They have decided to pick and choose their beliefs, rather than accept the truth of the belief system they claim to follow.

[Hux]

Even fundies pick and choose.

[Bob Klase]

If a person isn't a fundamentalist then they don't really believe their religion, that's all I have to say. They have decided to pick and choose their beliefs, rather than accept the truth of the belief system they claim to follow.

Let me try to interpret that for everyone else. What you really mean is:

"If a person isn't a fundamentalist then they don't really believe my religion, that's all I have to say. They have decided to pick and choose their beliefs, rather than accept the truth of the belief system I claim to follow."

[dafydd]

That has little to do with religious conviction, and everything to do with a lack of common sense.

If a person isn't a fundamentalist then they don't really believe their religion, that's all I have to say. They have decided to pick and choose their beliefs, rather than accept the truth of the belief system they claim to follow.

You pick and choose,I've worked Sundays,what punishment do you think I deserve?

[Hux]

How would you explain why fundies think killing a person who works on a Sunday, was intended for 'then' but being 'anti homosexual'(to say the least, is very much for today?

Because, more than most they pick and choose.

[Darth Rotor]

If a person isn't a fundamentalist then they don't really believe their religion, that's all I have to say.
OK, my dear Kilt Salesman, what do you mean by "the don't really believe their religion" (religion is something that is practiced, God is where the belief is directed) and I don't even eat porridge. :rolleyes:

DR

[Polaris]

That has little to do with religious conviction, and everything to do with a lack of common sense.

If a person isn't a fundamentalist then they don't really believe their religion, that's all I have to say. They have decided to pick and choose their beliefs, rather than accept the truth of the belief system they claim to follow.

What are your feelings on abortion and homosexuality?*






*Patience, I'm going somewhere with this.