Another Christian nurse moved amid necklace ban

[Rrose Selavy]

A Christian nurse was taken off frontline duties after she refused to take off a necklace bearing a cross.

Shirley Chaplin said she believed The Royal Devon and Exeter NHS Trust Hospital was trying to prevent her from expressing religious beliefs.

But the trust said the policy had nothing to do with the crucifix specifically, and was motivated by health and safety concerns about patients grabbing necklaces.

Mrs Chaplin, 54, from Exeter, said: "For about 30 years I have worked in the NHS and nursed patients day and night and on no occasion has my cross caused me or anyone else any injury - and to my knowledge, no patient has ever complained about me wearing it.

"The Trust even refused to test the 'breaking strain' on the necklace."

Mrs Chaplin, who is due to retire in eight months, added: "Everyone I have ever worked with has clearly known I am a Christian: it is what motivates me to care for others."


Why not do it for it's own good , or even just for the money rather than for some reward in the afterlife?





"This blatant piece of political correctness amounts to the marginalising of employees' personal human rights, a blanket 'secularising and neutralising' of the NHS intended to stop Christians from expressing their faith in the public services of the NHS."

Mrs Chaplin is being supported by her minister, the Rev John Eustice, of Christ Church, Exeter, and has sought advice from the Christian Legal Centre (CLC), which has instructed human rights barrister Paul Diamond, who advised Caroline Petrie, the nurse who was suspended for offering to pray for a patient but was later reinstated.

Barrister Andrea Minichiello Williams, founder of the CLC, said: "I think members of the public, including Shirley's thousands of former patients over the years, will be astonished at the request from her employer to remove a personal item which clearly expresses something of the love and care she has for people which first led her into the nursing profession.




"This agenda is leading to case after case of discrimination against Christians and real suffering.

"We will be assisting Shirley to hold out for her human rights - and expect the public en masse to do so as well."


Real suffering? Yeah right.


More here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/christian-nurse-moved-amid-necklace-ban-1790595.html

[shandyjan]

I can only go from friends who are nurses in mental health, and they arnt allowed to wear chains or any other jewellyry except wedding rings. Its for safety reasons as stated. Maybe things can be stricter in some hospitals than others, some districts than others, but usually the policy goes right through.
The last religious kerfuffle, everyone got a memo about not discussing religion. Even my partner who works in the ambulance station in repairs and transport!

[Cavemonster]

So in reality, she's upset that her religious convictions don't trump the hospital safety standards?

[Cavemonster]

Note, this is exactly what I was talking about in the Jedi Thread.

Private institutions have their own practical reasons for a number of restrictions they may want to implement, whether it's about Jewelry or behavior. Why should anyone take away their rights to run their business in the best way?

I'm as liberal as they come, and all in favor of regulating businesses to avoid real harm, but not getting to wear your necklace while on duty is not a real harm. If it were someone who wore the necklace for personal, non-religious reasons, there wouldn't even be a discussion, but somehow religion trumps all other freedoms in the minds of some.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Why not do it for it's own good , or even just for the money rather than for some reward in the afterlife?


A lot of Christians who are nice people mistakenly credit their good deeds to God. They mistake their own natural human compassion and kindness for good deeds that came about because of their religious beliefs. They don't realize they would do the exact same thing if they were an atheist, agnostic, weak Christian, cultural Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Shinto practitioner or Buddhist.

This does seem like a pretty big overreaction, though. When I was a Catholic, I proudly wore a gold cross every day and only took it off to shower or swim and nothing ever happened to me.

I guess it is possible for a patient to grab at a nurse or a paramedic and hurt them but it is not a serious hazard.

[geni]

Note, this is exactly what I was talking about in the Jedi Thread.

Private institutions have their own practical reasons for a number of restrictions they may want to implement, whether it's about Jewelry or behavior. Why should anyone take away their rights to run their business in the best way?

The NHS is not a private instition. It's a state run hospital owned by a goverment that has a version of christianity as the state religion.

[Rrose Selavy]

"The Trust even refused to test the 'breaking strain' on the necklace."


How inconvenient. I suppose hanging might be preferable to crucifixion.

-

[Ryan O'Dine]

I don't understand. Are you people suggesting she could be a Christian without wearing bling around her neck?

Doesn't one of the beatitudes compel the believer to spend money on trinkets? Blessed are the in-your-face jewelry wearers, for they shall... dang, how does that end? ... win lawsuits?

[Marduk]

The NHS is not a private instition. It's a state run hospital owned by a goverment that has a version of christianity as the state religion.

its obviously the definitive version of christianity
heres the proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires#Modern_empires
:p
divorce and world domination and all you gotta do is write "CofE" on your birth certificate, church attendance isnt even compulsary

Jesus was English yanno, at the very least its the language hes always speaking on his frequent movie appearences on my tv (Mel Gibson movies excluded on the basis of anti semitic drink drive politics)

[Pure Argent]

So will this be radioactive fire and brimstone or regular? If God really wants to do damage, he'll choose radioactive.

[Maia]

I've worked at a hospital and a long term care facility, and both had written guidelines that employees could not wear necklaces of any kind. It is a safety issue, and that is that. It's also why they can't wear dangly earrings, long flowing hair that isn't tied back, great big rings, artificial fingernails, blah blah blah, end of story, this entire thing is insane.

[fromdownunder]

As an ex Softball/baseball umpire, we had rules which disallowed all jewellery being worn on the field, except for wedding bands which had to be taped over. The reason was obvious - safety. No religious connotations, no discrimination, just common sense in a contact sport where bodies and hard balls are constantly being thrown around.

Norm

[pgwenthold]

As noted above, how can she claim religious persecution given that nothing in her religion (as far as anyone knows) says that she has to wear a cross around her neck?

This case doesn't even compare to those silly muslim "my religion says I have to wear a burkha in my driver's license photo" because at least they can claim that it is a requirement of their religion (at least in someone's mind).

If this woman is catholic, all you do is go to the priest and say, "Is there anything in your religious tenets that requires members to wear a crucifix necklace?" The answer will be no. Thus, what she is actually asking for is a special privelidge to promote her religion

[Darat]

A lot of Christians who are nice people mistakenly credit their good deeds to God. They mistake their own natural human compassion and kindness for good deeds that came about because of their religious beliefs. They don't realize they would do the exact same thing if they were an atheist, agnostic, weak Christian, cultural Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Shinto practitioner or Buddhist.

This does seem like a pretty big overreaction, though. When I was a Catholic, I proudly wore a gold cross every day and only took it off to shower or swim and nothing ever happened to me.

I guess it is possible for a patient to grab at a nurse or a paramedic and hurt them but it is not a serious hazard.

I do agree it seems a pretty big overreaction - no one is saying she can't wear a crucifix or trying to prevent her from following the tenets of her faith so why is she overreacting in such a manner?

Personally I think it is yet another example of the "Christian Legal Centre" trying to take a non-issue and make it into an issue. Unfortunately they seem rather successful at doing this.

[Dragonrock]

Mrs. Rock is a nurse, when she worked ER and ICU the rules were no necklaces, earrings could only be studs, and long hair had to be tied back. This was for the safety of both the patient (so nothing fell off of you and on to them) and the nurse (so nothing could be grabbed and torn).

I also think there was a study that found that the #1 source of cross-patient infection was neckties with jewelry being a close second. Basically it is anything that is repetitively worn while only being washed rarely.

[MG1962]

I used to live near a Catholic hospital, and I must admit to being a little fuzzy but I am sure the nurses were only allowed to wear a tiny cross on the collar of their uniform. But I definately never saw a necklace or other such adornments

[ponderingturtle]

I do agree it seems a pretty big overreaction - no one is saying she can't wear a crucifix or trying to prevent her from following the tenets of her faith so why is she overreacting in such a manner?

Personally I think it is yet another example of the "Christian Legal Centre" trying to take a non-issue and make it into an issue. Unfortunately they seem rather successful at doing this.

They need to show all the persecution from the secular world. What is the point of being christian if you can't use it to justify your paranioa?

[ponderingturtle]

I used to live near a Catholic hospital, and I must admit to being a little fuzzy but I am sure the nurses were only allowed to wear a tiny cross on the collar of their uniform. But I definately never saw a necklace or other such adornments

Yea but everyone knows papists are not true christians.

[Professor Yaffle]

My mam's a nurse and she IS allowed to wear an neckace.

It happens to be a medicalert necklace for Addison's disease though...

[Beerina]

So in reality, she's upset that her religious convictions don't trump the hospital safety standards?

One would hope the hospital had some evidence of it being a useful standard.

Science and all that, you know.

[Mojo]

As noted above, how can she claim religious persecution given that nothing in her religion (as far as anyone knows) says that she has to wear a cross around her neck?


Presumably she (and the staff of the "Christian Legal Centre") hasn't read Matthew 6.

[Rrose Selavy]

There was an online report I saw ages ago about ties being a harbourer of possible germs, etc

bow ties, much less favoured among British doctors than years ago were potentially less harzardous, presumably because of the lack of "hang".

[Nursefoxfire]

There was an online report I saw ages ago about ties being a harbourer of possible germs, etc

bow ties, much less favoured among British doctors than years ago were potentially less harzardous, presumably because of the lack of "hang".

/has images of the bow-tie report being sponsored by the bow-tie manufacturers :D

[IMST]

If she's so concerned about everyone knowing she's a christian, just get the damn cross tattooed where the necklace would be.

[TheAnachronism]

Couldn't they just let her wear it and have her operate the MRI? :)

(Yes, I'm evil)

[coalesce]

For all we know, the hospital may have let her go early if they didn't want to pay her pension.

Michael

[Steven Howard]

For all we know, the hospital may have let her go early if they didn't want to pay her pension.

That's right. In fact, for all we know, she might even be a space alien from the Planet of Bizarre Contrafactual Hypotheses.

[Mojo]

For all we know, the hospital may have let her go early if they didn't want to pay her pension.

Michael


She was not threatened with the sack or disciplinary action, contrary to reports. But she was "redeployed" to a job where her own and patients' safety was not put at risk.


Apparently not.

[Mojo]

I do agree it seems a pretty big overreaction - no one is saying she can't wear a crucifix or trying to prevent her from following the tenets of her faith so why is she overreacting in such a manner?


Even she seems to admit that she isn't required to wear it: The spokesman said Mrs Chaplin herself had also admitted wearing a cross was not a requirement of her faith.


It's a little hard to see how a claim of discrimination can be supported.

[godless dave]

For all we know, the hospital may have let her go early if they didn't want to pay her pension.

Michael


This is in the UK. The government would just eliminate her pension and say it was necessary for modernisation.

[ponderingturtle]

If she's so concerned about everyone knowing she's a christian, just get the damn cross tattooed where the necklace would be.

That wouldn't work, it would be under her shirt.

[coalesce]

Apparently not.

I stand corrected.

Michael

[Elizabeth I]

If she's so concerned about everyone knowing she's a christian, just get the damn cross tattooed where the necklace would be.

Tattoos are the work of the Devil. Didn't you get the memo?

[Ysidro]

That wouldn't work, it would be under her shirt.

Then she should wear a damn shirt!

[Jackalgirl]

I've got a religious-themed necklace. It's called a shabu, and it's a necklace meant to symbolize the relationship between myself and my spiritual Parent (some people also believe that it shields you from harm, but I myself prefer to do that on my own as much as I can). We're not required to wear it, nor is there even any kind of sentiment that not wearing it is Bad or will get you in Trouble or anything like that.

I made a go at wearing it under my uniform for a while, but I had two problems:

1) (the big one) it showed. It's a string of beads, so it has a tendancy to roll into the crooks of my neck (don't know how else to describe it) and show underneath my t-shirt.

2) Because it showed, people would see it and (literally) yank it out of my shirt and ask about it.

Navy uniform regulations prohibit me from wearing a necklace that is visible. This limits me, basically, to very light and thin strings or chains that won't ride up my neck and be visible from underneath the t-shirts. Big ol' strings of beads won't do.

My reaction? I don't wear the necklace. Perhaps, one day, I'll see about making a shabu "lite" that will ride under my t-shirt and stay there where it belongs. But the difference between me and this nurse is that if I did wear it, it would be as a reminder to me of my relationship with my religions and its tenants, not as an advertisement to the world ("Look at me! I'm Kemetic Orthodox!"), and I certainly don't think it infringes on my religious freedom or my freedom of expression that I can't wear it. Plus, I can't stand it when people lunge into my personal space and yank on stuff that's wrapped around my throat.

[Andrew Wiggin]

I guess it is possible for a patient to grab at a nurse or a paramedic and hurt them but it is not a serious hazard.

I take it you don't work in healthcare. This most certainly is a serious issue, and one that almost all healthcare providers have had to face. Especially in behavioral health, but also in emergency medicine, violence against healthcare workers is frequent, and injuries are common.

My own experience has caused me to no longer wear anything around my neck, even the customary stethescope. I was strangled with it by a nice little old lady who mistook 'evaluated for mental status changes' for 'kidnapped by pirates'. I've had a patient try to stab me with a steak knife. I've seen the 'trapeze' from an ortho bed converted into a morning star style mace. I've seen poop flung by human monkeys who should have known better. I've seen a man jumping on a bed stark naked, screaming at the top of his lungs, bleeding from his penis where he'd forcefully removed a catheter, swinging an IV pole at any staff member who came close enough in their tries to assist him. I've had to take my own co-workers down to the ED to be seen after patient incidents ended in broken bones. This is just for starters. I could fill pages with this stuff, and so could almost any healthcare worker.

A

[~enigma~]

Couldn't they just let her wear it and have her operate the MRI? :)

(Yes, I'm evil)
Swallow it first.....I am eviler :)

[linusrichard]

I like how it's her Christianity that motivates her to care for people, but when told that wearing the cross will cost her the opportunity to continue caring for people, she picks the jewelry.

Is there a "Jesus facepalm" picture out there?

[psychictv]

I'm sure she would never complain if I came to her bedside wearing an inverted pentagram necklace. :rolleyes: