9/11 Commissioner John Farmer Completely Debunks Debunkers In New Book

[Astute Perspicuous]

He states and I quote;

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

Also...

The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . "

And...

9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."

Debunk That!

[funk de fino]

Cherry picking guff again.

None of it proves inside job. Not one shred of evidence

Do you get fed up failing like this?

[Captain.Sassy]

I read something about this too.

From the quotes I read, it sounded more like bureaucratic ass-covering than anything else.

[Astute Perspicuous]

Cherry picking guff again.

None of it proves inside job. Not one shred of evidence

Do you get fed up failing like this?


Just because you say someone has failed does not make that the truth.

Seems like guys like you have a hard time understanding truth.

I am quoting a 9/11 commissioner...That's what he said. You can't deny that.

Sorry, but you fail.

[funk de fino]

I read something about this too.

From the quotes I read, it sounded more like bureaucratic ass-covering than anything else.

And most of it is about NORAD. He then goes onto to mention that some of the less than truthful stuff was pointed out in the 911 commission but the truthers do not like to bring that part.

[johnny karate]

But I thought the 9/11 Commission was a whitewash?

Do we believe what the commissioners say or don't we?

[Astute Perspicuous]

And most of it is about NORAD. He then goes onto to mention that some of the less than truthful stuff was pointed out in the 911 commission but the truthers do not like to bring that part.

LOVE THE SPIN!

"some of the less than truthful stuff"

Say it like it is!

LIES!

[16.5]

LOVE THE SPIN!

"some of the less than truthful stuff"

Say it like it is!

LIES!

AP, there is a thread all about this already. Why did you start a second thread?

Particularly one with such a grossly misleading headline?

[funk de fino]

Just because you say someone has failed does not make that the truth.

Seems like guys like you have a hard time understanding truth.

I am quoting a 9/11 commissioner...That's what he said. You can't deny that.

Sorry, but you fail.

Its about NORAD and it was already pointed out in the commission report. Try again, no evidence for inside job. Cherry pick all you like.

here is the same commissioner

John Farmer says "Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is extremely accurate and sets forth the facts of 9-11, and actually we did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that we were given and what we actually found."

Fail again

[BigAl]

I am quoting quote mining a 9/11 commissioner...That's what he said. You can't deny that.

Sorry, but you fail.

Read the book.

[Astute Perspicuous]

But I thought the 9/11 Commission was a whitewash?

Do we believe what the commissioners say or don't we?

I suspect it was a whitewash...but, the little morals that some of these people have are catching up with them, thus, they are trying to make right on whatever level they see it in their mind.

Some might also be butt-covering.

[funk de fino]

LOVE THE SPIN!

"some of the less than truthful stuff"

Say it like it is!

LIES!

Except we all knew that, and it did not prove an inside job. It seems the truthers did not. How ironic.

See my cherry picking effort. Beats your hands down

[Astute Perspicuous]

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

The quote above says it all...there is. It says what it says and no matter what spin you try and put on it, there is no putting it in a good light.

[funk de fino]

I suspect it was a whitewash...but, the little morals that some of these people have are catching up with them, thus, they are trying to make right on whatever level they see it in their mind.

Some might also be butt-covering.

Butt covering does not prove inside job. It proves butt covering. I guess Alex Jones is doing lots of butt covering lately eh? Or is that lies also?

John Farmer says "Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is extremely accurate and sets forth the facts of 9-11, and actually we did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that we were given and what we actually found."

[BigAl]

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

The quote above says it all...there is. It says what it says and no matter what spin you try and put on it, there is no putting it in a good light.

To the degree the above is true, especially about NORAD, it doesn't change the conclusions that ObL and 19 hijackers caused all the death and destruction on 9/11 and that the US administration had nothing to do with it.

[funk de fino]

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

The quote above says it all...there is. It says what it says and no matter what spin you try and put on it, there is no putting it in a good light.

The bolded part is the relevant part and it is dealt with in my quote. Ignore it all you like.

It proves nothing except someone tried to cover butts. Normal human behaviour.

[Brainster]

Here's another quote from Farmer, from his recent (http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7409) (about a week ago) interview with Brad Friedman on the Mike Malloy show:

John Farmer- Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is, uh, extremely accurate, and- and sets forth the facts of 9/11. And we actually did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that were given and what we actually found.

Farmer's actually overhyping the fact that the Air Force lied about when they knew about Flight 77 and Flight 93 (they found out about those hijackings later than what they had claimed to the commission). Anybody who's read the Vanity Fair article on the NORAD tapes knows this.

[Astute Perspicuous]

The bolded part is the relevant part and it is dealt with in my quote. Ignore it all you like.

It proves nothing except someone tried to cover butts. Normal human behaviour.

Wrong...The whole sentence is important, in fact the first part more so.

"at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened"

That means conspiracy, BY DEFINITION...

That means that people conspired, together, in a federal investigation, to lie.

THAT MY FRIEND IS CONSPIRACY BY DEFINITION.

[funk de fino]

Wrong...The whole sentence is important, in fact the first part more so.

"at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened"

That means conspiracy, BY DEFINITION...

That means that people conspired, together, in a federal investigation, to lie.

THAT MY FRIEND IS CONSPIRACY BY DEFINITION.

Wrong, it is butt covering. Nothing to see here. Late to the party again.

What level of govt?

[Captain.Sassy]

This is a bit tangential, but why to twoofers have such a hard time believing the US could have been susceptible to a terrorist attack? There's this weird myth of US invulnerability thing going on or something.

[Astute Perspicuous]

Wrong, it is butt covering. Nothing to see here. Late to the party again.

What level of govt?

You are so so so so so wrong

Conspiracy (dictionary Def)
" secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act"

For people to agree to Lie in a federal investigation is conspiracy by definition. It's called PERJURY and when 2 or more people agree to do it in a federal investigation, it's call CONSPIRACY.

I have you by the gonads on this one. You can't win.

[funk de fino]

You are so so so so so wrong

Conspiracy (dictionary Def)
" secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act"

For people to agree to Lie in a federal investigation is conspiracy by definition. It's called PERJURY and when 2 or more people agree to do it in a federal investigation, it's call CONSPIRACY.

I have you by the gonads on this one. You can't win.

I suggest you read your thread title again sunshine.

John Farmer says "Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is extremely accurate and sets forth the facts of 9-11, and actually we did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that we were given and what we actually found."

Funnily enough that is what debunkers claim.

Fail again

What level of govt?

[BigAl]

You are so so so so so wrong

Conspiracy (dictionary Def)
" secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act"

For people to agree to Lie in a federal investigation is conspiracy by definition. It's called PERJURY and when 2 or more people agree to do it in a federal investigation, it's call CONSPIRACY.

I have you by the gonads on this one. You can't win.

Fine. We can agree that some mid-level people at NORAD didn't tell the story as it happened. It didn't affect our understanding of the facts of 9/11 by one bit.

What else do you have?

ObL lead 19 Islamist hijackers to hijack 4 civilian jets and crash them into 3 buildings. This caused all the death and destruction on 9/11.

[ElMondoHummus]

He states and I quote;

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

Also...

The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . "

And...

9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."

Debunk That!

Here's another quote from Farmer, from his recent (http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7409) (about a week ago) interview with Brad Friedman on the Mike Malloy show:

John Farmer- Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is, uh, extremely accurate, and- and sets forth the facts of 9/11. And we actually did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that were given and what we actually found.


Farmer's actually overhyping the fact that the Air Force lied about when they knew about Flight 77 and Flight 93 (they found out about those hijackings later than what they had claimed to the commission). Anybody who's read the Vanity Fair article on the NORAD tapes knows this.

Pat, you and James nailed it in your "And The Quote Mining Begins (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2009/09/and-quote-mining-begins.html)" post. You nailed it dead on. To wit:


As I predicted the other day, the nutbars over at 911 Troof dot org (http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20090913053140462) are already quote mining John Farmer's new book.


And Rutgers Law School-Newark Dean John Farmer, Senior Counsel and Team Leader to the 9/11 Commission states in his newly released book, The Ground Truth,

"At some level of government,at some point in time, a decision was made not to tell the truth about the national response to the attacks on the morning of 9/11. We owe the truth to the families of the victims of 9/11. We owe it to the American public as well, because only by understanding what has gone wrong in the past can we assure our nation's safety in the future."
Any notion that Farmer's book supports the 9-11 Conspiracy Nutbars call for a new 9-11 Commission should be dispelled by this quote (http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/1651) from Farmer's recent interview with Brad Friedman (http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7409):


John Farmer- Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is, uh, extremely accurate, and- and sets forth the facts of 9/11. And we actually did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that were given and what we actually found.


Farmer does not lend anything towards the conspiratorial fantasies, and people have to divorce quote from context in order to believe that he does. He's definitely of the opinion that while the truth was obfuscated, the investigation did indeed uncover it, and nothing about the truth is conspiratorial in the way 9/11 Truthers try to paint it to be in any way, shapre or form. The fact that higher ups in the Air Force attempted to play CYA does not[ mean there was any sort of plot by the US government. And that's the distinction that conspiracy peddlers fail to make.

[Astute Perspicuous]

I suggest you read your thread title again sunshine.



Funnily enough that is what debunkers claim.

Fail again

What level of govt?

Hey funk...I am not going to answer what level of gov because I don't know (there are so many) and that would be a conspiracy "Theory" which I don't deal with.

I deal with conspiracy FACT

Fact...people conspired to lie to a federal investigation.

Stay on topic

[ElMondoHummus]

Hey funk...I am not going to answer what level of gov because I don't know (there are so many) and that would be a conspiracy "Theory" which I don't deal with.

I deal with conspiracy FACT

Fact...people conspired to lie to a federal investigation.

Stay on topic

Fact: Those people's lies were discovered and corrected, and the truth still ended up pointing towards radical islamic terrorists surprising the nation and ramming jets into buildings.

There's a lot about the history of that event that you still need to get straight.

[TruthersLie]

He states and I quote;

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

Also...

The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . "

And...

9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."

Debunk That!

After your last major "debunk this" thread with the verinage technique... I fully expect you to completely blow up this one too...

It would help if you actually tried to READ the book, instead of just cherry picking out of context quotes.

[funk de fino]

Hey funk...I am not going to answer what level of gov because I don't know (there are so many) and that would be a conspiracy "Theory" which I don't deal with.

I deal with conspiracy FACT

Fact...people conspired to lie to a federal investigation.

Stay on topic

You deal with cherry picking lies. Your thread title is a lie.

What level of govt? When I was in the RAF, if I lied to my officer about something with the connivance of my fellow corporal. Is this govt lies?

[Astute Perspicuous]

Just chew on the FACT that CONSPIRACY, by definition, has happened.

Have fun

[funk de fino]

Thread title

9/11 Commissioner John Farmer Completely Debunks Debunkers In New Book

John Farmer recently.

John Farmer- Well, let me just say that I think the [9-11 Commission] report is, uh, extremely accurate, and- and sets forth the facts of 9/11. And we actually did point out in the report the discrepancies between the accounts that were given and what we actually found.

Outcome.

Thread title is a falsehood. We knew there were falsehoods in the report. No-one is saying there was not. It seems there was only one person slow on the uptake on this.

[NutCracker]

Just because you say someone has failed does not make that the truth.

Seems like guys like you have a hard time understanding truth.

I am quoting a 9/11 commissioner...That's what he said. You can't deny that.

Sorry, but you fail.


Please do cut the BS, will you. Inconstancy/error in an official report is proof of inside-jobby-job exactly how?

It isn't. And the fun part is, you know it. Hence your need to bolster your "evidence" by using wording like "completely debunks."

[NutCracker]

Just chew on the FACT that CONSPIRACY, by definition, has happened.

Have fun

Oh, yes, you completely cracked the case.

And why did you feel the urge to pound the table (ALL CAPS, "by definition blahblah")? Because deep down in your delusional skull there is something that knows you have got nothing.

[BigAl]

Just chew on the FACT that CONSPIRACY, by definition, has happened.

Have fun

Conspiracy by whom to do what, precisely?

[MikeW]

He states and I quote;

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”
Yes, he believes NORAD and the FAA got together and agreed not to tell the truth, most significantly about the NEADS notification time for UA93.

However, fortunately the 9/11 Commission obtained the NORAD tapes and other information that allowed them to put together an accurate timeline of what occurred.

So what, exactly, do you think this demonstrates?

[ElMondoHummus]

Just chew on the FACT that CONSPIRACY, by definition, has happened.

Have fun

Please note the FACT that the "CONSPIRACY" (which was hardly any sort of actual "conspiracy"; some Generals in the Air Force playing "cover your ass" with their narrative is hardly anything even remotely approaching the possibility of "inside job") was limited to aspects of the FIRST VERSION of the response the Air Force testified to, and still did not come close to opening the door to US government complicity. And above and beyond that, also note the FACT that, as Mike W noted, the 9/11 Commision was still able to piece together the timeline in spite of the distortions that were uncovered. As a matter of fact, it was the 9/11 Commision's work that revealed there was CYA to begin with.

If you want to ram your own interpretation of what a conspiracy consists of down everybody's throats, then be prepared for the rest of us to cite the details of the event that contradict the notion of conspiratorial "inside job" charges. I strongly advise you to study the details of the inconsistencies that the military was found to have committed, then after that, explain to us how that adds up to any sort of conspiracy. Vague statements like what you've been posting don't cut it. Most of us here are already familiar with the details of the event, and aren't susceptible to falling for abiguous, unsupported arguments.

[Unsecured Coins]

ball.
of.
string.

[T.A.M.]

He states and I quote;

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

Also...

The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . "

And...

9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."

Debunk That!

laughable. The book should be in the mail by now, so I will have it in about a week. I'll let you know when I am finished. Sorry to say you MIHOPers, and even you LIHOPers will be sadly disappointed.

He also said the commission got almost everything right, so do you only believe the things he says that help perpetuate your distorted paranoid world view?????

Don't bother answering, as the questions were largely rhetorical.

TAM:)

[HyJinX]

Ahhhh...I so miss the days of being able to post cat pictures. :c1:

[BigAl]

He states and I quote;

Bushels of cherries deleted

Debunk That!

But you haven't read any of the books from which you quote mine. If you had, you'd know the authors don't support your conclusions.

[CHF]

Just chew on the FACT that CONSPIRACY, by definition, has happened.

Have fun

Contact John Farmer and ask him if he thinks there was a 9/11 conspiracy.

Go on. I dare you.

Or you can just keep pretending that he supports your mindless gibberish. It's all the same to me.

PS - thanks again for the Verinage videos :D I don't think any truther has hurt their own side that much since Judy Wood came up with her beam weapon theory.

[T.A.M.]

Contact John Farmer and ask him if he thinks there was a 9/11 conspiracy.

Go on. I dare you.

Or you can just keep pretending that he supports your mindless gibberish. It's all the same to me.

PS - thanks again for the Verinage videos :D I don't think any truther has hurt their own side that much since Judy Wood came up with her beam weapon theory.

I personally like her Keebler Elf stuff more, but the space beam one was definitely for the big laugh...the comedy money shot so to speak.

Happy BD by the way.

TAM:)

[CHF]

He also said the commission got almost everything right, so do you only believe the things he says that help perpetuate your distorted paranoid world view?????

"Danny Jowenko's a demolition expert and he thinks WTC7 was a CD!.....but don't listen to him about the WTC towers! On that he's full of crap."

:dl:

[Hokulele]

Happy Birthday CHF!

[bill smith]

He states and I quote;

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

Also...

The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . "

And...

9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."

Debunk That!

Want to bet ? How about John Farmer and those other guys are raving loons with political agendas ?

[CHF]

Thanks guys :D

The big 30

Goodbye youth....*sob*

[Jontg]

(Hands you a cane and a bat, and points you in Bill's direction.) Have fun.

[ElMondoHummus]

Thanks guys :D

The big 30

Goodbye youth....*sob*

Oh, quit whining. I'll be 40 next year, and half my college aged staff has been threatening to pelt me with jpgs of wheelchairs and Geritol. :(

[T.A.M.]

Oh, quit whining. I'll be 40 next year, and half my college aged staff has been threatening to pelt me with jpgs of wheelchairs and Geritol. :(

Yah I am less then 2 weeks from 39, So I hear yah!

TAM:)

[A W Smith]

after the fact. Edited for civility. Sorry you fail once again. Just ass covering plain and simple. You have no evidence of pre event conspiracy.

Changing a poster's name for the purpose insulting is not allowed.

[ElMondoHummus]

Yah I am less then 2 weeks from 39, So I hear yah!

TAM:)

Yeah, but do you work around a college-aged staff who struggle to recall VHS tapes and Windows 95?? I do. :(

And nothing sucks more in IT than to bring up something about Win95 Or NT 3.51 and have your staff think of it as ancient history because it predates the start their interest in computing. I might as well be talking about the Amiga, or early TRS-80s with these young-uns :(.



:mad: Hey! You kids! Get off my lawn!!! Eehhhhhhhhhhh!!!... http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/123864877beae15535.gif

[Hokulele]

I never realized that this sub-forum was populated almost entirely by children*.





* - "Children" being defined as anyone under the age of 40.

[T.A.M.]

Yeah, but do you work around a college-aged staff who struggle to recall VHS tapes and Windows 95?? I do. :(

And nothing sucks more in IT than to bring up something about Win95 Or NT 3.51 and have your staff think of it as ancient history because it predates the start their interest in computing. I might as well be talking about the Amiga, or early TRS-80s with these young-uns :(.



:mad: Hey! You kids! Get off my lawn!!! Eehhhhhhhhhhh!!!... http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/123864877beae15535.gif

I had an Atari 1040ST "back in the day".

TAM:)

[beachnut]

He states and I quote;

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

Also...

The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . "

And...

9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."

Debunk That!
This has been debunked and you missed it. Research could save you from posting stuff from years ago well researched and proof of your continued belief in delusions.

The best part about your ideas you can't support them with facts and evidence you post talk instead of substance.

[uk_dave]

Just because you say someone has failed does not make that the truth.

[stuff]

Sorry, but you fail.

Gotta love the 'truther' lack of self awareness.

[Mr.Herbert]

I had an Atari 1040ST "back in the day".

TAM:)

Hell, I had a TelStar back in the day. (pong)

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/telstar2.jpg

[Mr.Herbert]

Astute Perspicuous, read page one of the book, then come back here and talk about a conspiracy.

[DavidJames]

Astute Perspicuous, read page one of the book, then come back here and talk about a conspiracy.
Surely your not suggesting that AP didn't actually read the book but rather simply copied some quotes from a conspiracy site?

That would be shocking, truly shocking.

Not.

[Justin39640]

is it even an argument if it was copy & pasted out of context with no actual research behind the OP? (besides the fact, as mentioned, it has another thread on it already)
i have a feeling someone hasn't even seen the vanity fair article

I had an Atari 1040ST "back in the day".

TAM:)
happy b-day CHF :D

i turned 35 in june
but i got a baby face
so get still ID'd for everything :mad:

i dont remember the model
but in the early 80s we had an atari computer
it had a membrane keyboard lol same one?

i remember the P.E.T. from grade school too lol

and i had beta as a kid
most people under 25 dont have a clue that even existed

my GF has a 9 year old daughter
the kid and her friend were watching a show and the lead character had a t-shirt with a sketch of an audio cassette on it
i asked them if they knew what it was on his shirt
they had no clue

but when the same kid was 4 she told her mom (who was going through newspapers looking for something) "MOMMM just GOOGLE it!" lol

[T.A.M.]

is it even an argument if it was copy & pasted out of context with no actual research behind the OP? (besides the fact, as mentioned, it has another thread on it already)
i have a feeling someone hasn't even seen the vanity fair article


happy b-day CHF :D

i turned 35 in june
but i got a baby face
so get still ID'd for everything :mad:

i dont remember the model
but in the early 80s we had an atari computer
it had a membrane keyboard lol same one?

i remember the P.E.T. from grade school too lol

and i had beta as a kid
most people under 25 dont have a clue that even existed

my GF has a 9 year old daughter
the kid and her friend were watching a show and the lead character had a t-shirt with a sketch of an audio cassette on it
i asked them if they knew what it was on his shirt
they had no clue

but when the same kid was 4 she told her mom (who was going through newspapers looking for something) "MOMMM just GOOGLE it!" lol

that Atari may have been the 800XL, which I had prior to the 1040ST. 1040St came out around 1989-1990.

TAM:)

[Macgyver1968]

that Atari may have been the 800XL, which I had prior to the 1040ST. 1040St came out around 1989-1990.

TAM:)

HEHE..I had a 800xl too! Those were the days. :) Hell...I'll be 42 in a few months. You youngsters! Happy Birthday!

[Justin39640]

HEHE..I had a 800xl too! Those were the days. :) Hell...I'll be 42 in a few months. You youngsters! Happy Birthday!

that KB was awful
it hurt to use as a kid lol

[BigAl]

HEHE..I had a 800xl too! Those were the days. :) Hell...I'll be 42 in a few months. You youngsters! Happy Birthday!

This is the invoice for the first computer I could call mine.

http://dec20.blogspot.com/

(system serial number 2249, of fond (but not much) memory.)

[carlitos]

My 800XL had a cassette tape drive. It took about 20 minutes to load the Frogger knock-off game, "Preppie." Anyone else play Caverns of Mars?

[Matthew Cline]

This is a bit tangential, but why to twoofers have such a hard time believing the US could have been susceptible to a terrorist attack? There's this weird myth of US invulnerability thing going on or something.

Either that, or the belief that Islamic terrorists are incompetents who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

[ElMondoHummus]

Holy Jesus, could I have derailed this thread any worse? :D

[Audible Click]

I still have my original Pong game.

[bill smith]

My 800XL had a cassette tape drive. It took about 20 minutes to load the Frogger knock-off game, "Preppie." Anyone else play Caverns of Mars?

I was the world's best on 'Lode Runner'.

[DGM]

Thanks guys :D

The big 30

Goodbye youth....*sob*
30? Goodbye youth? Hey I'm (20 years) older and have still forgotten to grow up:D. Your still a pup!

Happy birthday!!!!!!!

[Comsat Angel]

Hey AP, since you seem to have gone all quiet:

"Just because you say someone has failed does not make that the truth. Seems like guys like you have a hard time understanding truth. I am quoting a 9/11 commissioner...That's what he said. You can't deny that. Sorry, but you fail. ."

I am sorry but The Truth failed. A 9/11 commissioner said "you can't deny that". Seems like hard truth to me.

[MysteryMammal]

He states and I quote;

at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

Holy ****** People tried to cover their asses for a possible blunder that cost over 3000 people their lives! No *********** way! :rolleyes:


Also...

The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . "

Holy ****** People tried to cover their asses for a possible blunder that cost over 3000 people their lives! No *********** way! :rolleyes:


And...

9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."

Debunk That!

Holy ****** Another guys says this is THE book to read! But still no one says "ZOMG! 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JORB!!1!!eleventy!!"

Next time make this a challenge, please.

[fourtoe]

after the fact. Edited for civility. Sorry you fail once again. Just ass covering plain and simple. You have no evidence of pre event conspiracy.

Changing a poster's name for the purpose insulting is not allowed.

You know I think seeing these notes left by mods is more funny/effective than just simply leaving the original content alone.


That post and the whole game/age derail made me laugh out loud.

So far I'll be the youngest one revealing my age in this thread, 22 years young.

However, I remember VHS (even beta) and even W95 vaguely, I learned on W98 though.

[UNLoVedRebel]

A few days ago I hit on a girl who was born during the Clinton Administration. I felt a little sick when I found out.

[SpitfireIX]

So far I'll be the youngest one revealing my age in this thread, 22 years young.


Get off my lawn!

[Foolmewunz]

Holy Jesus, could I have derailed this thread any worse? :D

Define worse. I think it's a better derail than following the OP.

Now get off my lawn you young whippersnappers! I'm frakkin' DOUBLE the age of CHF!


ETA: Happy Birthday CHF. (Am I the only person who sees your name and vocalizes it as "Swiss Francs"?)

[WildCat]

A few days ago I hit on a girl who was born during the Clinton Administration. I felt a little sick when I found out.
Dude, the oldest she could be was 16!

[fourtoe]

1992? hahahahahahahahahahaha

[deep]

1992? hahahahahahahahahahaha


Clinton was inaugurated in 1993.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Dude, the oldest she could be was 16!

They grow up fast these days.

[Crazytimes]

I would still like an explanation on how Farmer "Completely Debunks Debunkers"

[fourtoe]

Clinton was inaugurated in 1993.

aw crap, you're right. The four year term crap makes me think that they only end on even numbered years.

Good looking out.

[Brainster]

Thanks guys :D

The big 30

The good news is that all of us old hippies have decided that what we really meant was "Don't trust anyone under 30." So now we can let you know the secret plans for "the Revolution", man.

[uk_dave]

The good news is that all of us old hippies have decided that what we really meant was "Don't trust anyone under 30." So now we can let you know the secret plans for "the Revolution", man.


It involves vitamin supplements and cardigans.

[Hokulele]

But have you seen the cardigans?


Sweeeeeeet.

[CompusMentus]

Sinclair ZX81. 3D Monster Maze.

Still got it.

I win.



Compus

[R.Mackey]

Pfft. IBM 5120, Space War. 16K of RAM and blistering ASCII graphics, brought to life on a glorious nine inch monochrome screen.

To get more primitive than that, you'd have to stage a boxing match between tape servers. :D

[Lupie]

Delete

[Hokulele]

Pfft. IBM 5120, Space War. 16K of RAM and blistering ASCII graphics, brought to life on a glorious nine inch monochrome screen.

To get more primitive than that, you'd have to stage a boxing match between tape servers. :D


"Hunt the Wumpus" painstakingly programmed on an HP-41C. :cool:

[R.Mackey]

I smell a wumpus...

[CompusMentus]

Pfft. IBM 5120, Space War. 16K of RAM and blistering ASCII graphics, brought to life on a glorious nine inch monochrome screen.
To get more primitive than that, you'd have to stage a boxing match between tape servers. :D

Luxury.

ZX81: 1k ram (16k plug-in ram optional). No tape drive. Membrane KB. No screen.

I rest my case.


Compus

[Dave Rogers]

Debunk That!

Ah, the classic truther fallacy.

Let's break this one down.

On 9/11, terrorists from al-Qaeda attacked the USA. Let's call that hypothesis A. A group of deluded fools want us to believe that this attack was carried out by the US Government. Let's call that hypothesis B.

The 9/11 Commission investigated the attacks, and found a mountain of evidence supporting hypothesis A. Some of the fine details of hypothesis A were misunderstood, and it turned out that there was a reason for this; some individuals had given false testimony to make themselves appear less culpable for the faiure to prevent the attacks. These individuals were re-examined, their revised testimonies were reconciled and found to agree, and as a result a fully developed version of hypothesis A was arrived at which is now recognised as a reasonably good, if not necessarily perfectly complete and accurate, account of events.

The deluded fools reply that the above is proof of hypothesis B, despite the fact that hypothesis B consists of a series of mutually exclusive fragments of hypotheses, B1 to B50, none of which is supported by either the original dishonest testimony nor the later, internally consistent and presumed more accurate, testimony.

Sorry, but was there something there to debunk?

Dave

[R.Mackey]

Luxury? Oh, yes indeed! Dual 8" floppies, state-of-the-art processor... The thing cost $20,000 new. (We got it for $10).

Even today, anyone can try to program games on a RFID chip or a toaster controller.

[CompusMentus]

I thought that having two accounts here at JREF was a violation of the membership agreement. Very interesting...
L.



Seems like there was some doubt that that was actually the Lucus posting back in 2007.


Compus

[Hokulele]

I smell a wumpus...


*Chomp*

[Lupie]

Seems like there was some doubt that that was actually the Lucus posting back in 2007.


Compus

Compus,

I'm going to pursue the matter privately in accordace with the mods requests/rules.

L.

[CompusMentus]

Luxury? Oh, yes indeed! Dual 8" floppies, state-of-the-art processor... The thing cost $20,000 new. (We got it for $10).

Even today, anyone can try to program games on a RFID chip or a toaster controller.


The ZX81 cost me £85 of my hard-earned way back when. The ram-pack cost half as much and you had to hit the membrane keys so hard it kept shaking loose and crashing, the hi-tec fix involved copious amounts of electrical insulation tape.
But many great times spending about two evenings typing in 9000+ line basic programs from expensive games mags and then another week of late nights looking for the inevitable typos that made the game unloadable. Kids nowadays huh? Don't know they're born.


Compus

[TruthersLie]

He states and I quote;
blah blah blah
Debunk That!

What I find funny is that for some nearly 40 year old guy you sure do act like a 13 year old...

p.s. you need to update your myspace page.

[Dave Rogers]

If you dig into his various writings both here, and elsewhere, it's very clear that they are indeed the same person. There are a bunch of little quirks and themes that go beyond the common truther catch phrases and talking points that are unique to this person's posts. And, he is definitely both LUCUS and Astute Perspicuous on MySpace. He even has identical pictures of himself on both accounts.

Lupie, I don't seem able to PM you, so I'm replying in the thread. If you have evidence of this, don't post it publicly; PM it to the moderators, and let them investigate. They've requested many times that we do this.

Dave

[SezMe]

Compus,

If you dig into his various writings both here, and elsewhere, it's very clear that they are indeed the same person. There are a bunch of little quirks and themes that go beyond the common truther catch phrases and talking points that are unique to this person's posts. And, he is definitely both LUCUS and Astute Perspicuous on MySpace. He even has identical pictures of himself on both accounts.

What are the chances of a truther on MySpace who goes by both Astute Perspicuous, and LUCUS spelled with a "U", not being the same truther here that goes by both Astute Perspicuous and LUCUS with a "U"? It's the same guy.

L.
If you really believe that then you ought to report him/her.

[Brainster]

When the computer was first installed in our office in 1981 I got the guy to install a game; it was the original "Adventure" game; "You are standing at the end of a road..." I stayed after work for weeks for about an hour, reasoning that I didn't mind missing the rush hour subway. And I never did figure out the "free bird" bit; the game would let you slip by the snake every now and then without letting the bird loose.

[Lupie]

Lupie, I don't seem able to PM you, so I'm replying in the thread. If you have evidence of this, don't post it publicly; PM it to the moderators, and let them investigate. They've requested many times that we do this.

Dave

Understood. I will contact the mods privately. Thanks Dave.

[CompusMentus]

Lupie, I don't seem able to PM you, so I'm replying in the thread. If you have evidence of this, don't post it publicly; PM it to the moderators, and let them investigate. They've requested many times that we do this.




ETA In light of that, this post deleted.


Compus

[ElMondoHummus]

Luxury? Oh, yes indeed! Dual 8" floppies, state-of-the-art processor... The thing cost $20,000 new. (We got it for $10).

Even today, anyone can try to program games on a RFID chip or a toaster controller.

OMG... I remember 8" floppies from the Trash-80 "business" computers way back when. If you wanted, you could order them with "Winchester" drives that would boost your storage capacity to an obscene, unheard of 4-some megabytes!

Geez... I feel old. Thankfully, I'm not so old that I recall punch card interfaces. :D

[Hokulele]

OMG... I remember 8" floppies from the Trash-80 "business" computers way back when. If you wanted, you could order them with "Winchester" drives that would boost your storage capacity to an obscene, unheard of 4-some megabytes!


Floppies? Our Trash-80 had a cassette drive.

Geez... I feel old. Thankfully, I'm not so old that I recall punch card interfaces. :D


Go ahead, rub it in. :mad:

:D

[Pantaz]

When the computer was first installed in our office in 1981 I got the guy to install a game; it was the original "Adventure" game; "You are standing at the end of a road..."

This one?
West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front
door.
There is a small mailbox here.
>
Zork 1, 2, and 3 are available for free download... http://www.infocom-if.org/downloads/downloads.html

[Dave Rogers]

If you have evidence of this, don't post it publicly; PM it to the moderators, and let them investigate.

And, it would seem, they have done so.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=5130783#post5130783

Bye bye, Astute Perspicuous.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5130779#post5130779

And Ragnarok too, it seems.

Dave

[ElMondoHummus]

Geez... I feel old. Thankfully, I'm not so old that I recall punch card interfaces. :D


Go ahead, rub it in. :mad:

:D

By your command :p:

Man, I remember high school BACK IN THE 80's where our then 50 YEAR OLD TEACHER in computer programming BACK IN THE DAYS OF PASCAL told old fart stories about HIS DAYS AS A YOUNG GUY having to fill out punch cards, then sign up for processor time and feed each card into the old system and wait for the results. He kept on telling us we were spoiled by our 7 INCH CRT GRAYSCALE MONITORS and how it was unique to have YOUR OWN PROCESSOR ON THE DESK IN FRONT OF YOU instead of having TIMESHARE ON THE MAINFRAME...

Is that what you were after? :D

[Crazytimes]

I would still like an explanation on how Farmer "Completely Debunks Debunkers"

Still nothing ?

[HyJinX]

And, it would seem, they have done so.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=5130783#post5130783

Bye bye, Astute Perspicuous.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5130779#post5130779

And Ragnarok too, it seems.

Dave

I guess he wasn't very Astute after all.

[Macgyver1968]

Still nothing ?

You'll be waiting awhile...Asstoot got banned for being a sock.

[Hokulele]

By your command :p:

Man, I remember high school BACK IN THE 80's where our then 50 YEAR OLD TEACHER in computer programming BACK IN THE DAYS OF PASCAL told old fart stories about HIS DAYS AS A YOUNG GUY having to fill out punch cards, then sign up for processor time and feed each card into the old system and wait for the results. He kept on telling us we were spoiled by our 7 INCH CRT GRAYSCALE MONITORS and how it was unique to have YOUR OWN PROCESSOR ON THE DESK IN FRONT OF YOU instead of having TIMESHARE ON THE MAINFRAME...


Ah, mainframes with a dot matrix printer as the only output. Good times, good times. I almost miss the DEC PDP-11 mini-computer.

Is that what you were after? :D


Whipper-snapper. Get off my lawn!

[Wolrab]

Define worse. I think it's a better derail than following the OP.

Now get off my lawn you young whippersnappers! I'm frakkin' DOUBLE the age of CHF!


ETA: Happy Birthday CHF. (Am I the only person who sees your name and vocalizes it as "Swiss Francs"?)

I always think Congestive Heart Failure. I always had the picture in my head of him being older. Funny how the mind works.

[Redtail]

By your command :p:

Man, I remember high school BACK IN THE 80's where our then 50 YEAR OLD TEACHER in computer programming BACK IN THE DAYS OF PASCAL told old fart stories about HIS DAYS AS A YOUNG GUY having to fill out punch cards, then sign up for processor time and feed each card into the old system and wait for the results. He kept on telling us we were spoiled by our 7 INCH CRT GRAYSCALE MONITORS and how it was unique to have YOUR OWN PROCESSOR ON THE DESK IN FRONT OF YOU instead of having TIMESHARE ON THE MAINFRAME...

Is that what you were after? :D

... There's a little dish of candy corn on your desk isn't there?

[MarkyX]

Here's another quote from Farmer, from his recent (http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7409) (about a week ago) interview with Brad Friedman on the Mike Malloy show:



Farmer's actually overhyping the fact that the Air Force lied about when they knew about Flight 77 and Flight 93 (they found out about those hijackings later than what they had claimed to the commission). Anybody who's read the Vanity Fair article on the NORAD tapes knows this.

Well it is technically untrue and NORAD should've been more honest, however this barely dents anything. This doesn't prove there were thermite bombs, magical ray guns, or the victims didn't exist.

If anything, it shows the 9/11 Commission Report was serious about getting things accurate as opposed to making **** up like the 9/11 deniers.

[lapman]

Pfft. IBM 5120, Space War. 16K of RAM and blistering ASCII graphics, brought to life on a glorious nine inch monochrome screen.

To get more primitive than that, you'd have to stage a boxing match between tape servers. :D
Original Commodore PET with the calculator keyboard and built-in cassette tape. I still have our second PET, a Vic-20 and C64.

[Myriad]

Luxury.

Altair 8800, which came as a pile of empty printed circuit boards and bags of components. BYO soldering iron and borrowed oscilloscope for debugging. Two kilobytes of dynamic RAM memory on a board about half the size of a whole laptop PC. No monitor, no disk drives, no cassette drive. A row of toggle switches to hand-enter a boot program in binary, one byte at a time, to allow it to respond to key presses, print, and read/write punched paper tapes on a teletype machine.

I'd say you can't get more primitive than that, except I'd be wrong. Prior to that as a student I worked with, and on, computers with: core memory planes, punched card databases, patch-panel "programming," and even an analog computer. Of course, individual ownership of such machines was about as common as personal steam locomotives.

(Punched card databases are very similar in concept to modern databases, but more literal. Each record is on one card and to to do a search you mechanically feed all the cards through a machine set to divert the ones that match the search pattern to one stack and the rest to another; to sort the database, you repeat that process so as to physically sort all the cards.)

Respectfully,
Myriad

[ElMondoHummus]

... There's a little dish of candy corn on your desk isn't there?

I take exception with two points in your statement.
Little?
By saying "... of candy corn", you presume there are contents remaining.
;)

[R.Mackey]

Actually the weakest computer I worked on was the CPU of the old Heathkit Hero-1 robot. You could either enter in commands (in assembly) half a byte at a time, using a keypad and a two character LED readout, or later when we felt hard core, we burned little EPROMS using a Vic-20.

Couldn't play any games on it, though. The most sophisticated I ever got it to do was track people using the IR and sound sensors, and open fire on them with an electric water pump when ultrasonics said they were in range.

[ElMondoHummus]

The most sophisticated I ever got it to do was track people using the IR and sound sensors, and open fire on them with an electric water pump when ultrasonics said they were in range.

Now that's the epitome of a cool "hack". Not in this modern and now widely accepted script-kiddie sense of attacking vulnerabilities to compromise systems security, but rather the old school MIT sense of doing something neat and cool with your equipment.