British/NASA study says ice melting faster!

[Dancing David]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_sc/us_sci_big_melt

Yahoo news

"NASA data: Greenland, Antarctic ice melt worsening"


British scientists for the first time calculated changes in the height of the vulnerable but massive ice sheets and found them especially worse at their edges. That's where warmer water eats away from below. In some parts of Antarctica, ice sheets have been losing 30 feet a year in thickness since 2003, according to a paper published online Thursday in the journal Nature.

Some of those areas are about a mile thick, so they've still got plenty of ice to burn through. But the drop in thickness is speeding up. In parts of Antarctica, the yearly rate of thinning from 2003 to 2007 is 50 percent higher than it was from 1995 to 2003.




As scientists watch ice shelves retreat or just plain collapse, some thought the problem could slow or be temporary. The latest measurements eliminate "the most optimistic view," said Penn State University professor Richard Alley, who wasn't part of the study.

The research found that 81 of the 111 Greenland glaciers surveyed are thinning at an accelerating, self-feeding pace.

The key problem is not heat in the air, but the water near the ice sheets, Pritchard said. The water is not just warmer but its circulation is also adding to the melt.

[Skeptical Greg]

The research found that 81 of the 111Greenland glaciers surveyed are thinning at an accelerating, self-feeding pace. I wonder what keeps the other thirty from thinning as well ?

[Fnord]

Interesting news. However, what do "they" want "us" to do about it?

Can this phenomenon be reversed in our lifetimes; and if so, how?

If this phenomenon can not be reversed in our lifetimes, then how can it be exploited for profit?

[geni]

Interesting news. However, what do "they" want "us" to do about it?

Can this phenomenon be reversed in our lifetimes; and if so, how?


Chose a large area of land you don't really need. Paint it white.

[Fnord]

Chose a large area of land you don't really need. Paint it white.
How large?

As large as mainland China, perhaps?

;)

[DogB]

More equatorial would be better. Maybe Zaire and Sudan.

[geni]

How large?

As large as mainland China, perhaps?

;)

Depends on how much CO2 you want to chuck into the atmosphere. Start at the Canadian boarder (little point in painting snow white) and keep going until the temp starts to drop or you hit Cape Horn.

[SezMe]

Can this phenomenon be reversed in our lifetimes; and if so, how?

If this phenomenon can not be reversed in our lifetimes, then how can it be exploited for profit?
Why is our lifetime the criterion period? Why not the next 100 years? 500?

[Skeptical Greg]

If you wait 500 years, the people who think less ice is normal, will be frantic, because it is increasing and ruining their tomato harvest..

They will be screaming for more coal fired power plants to increase greenhouse gasses ..

[BenBurch]

If you wait 500 years, the people who think less ice is normal, will be frantic, because it is increasing and ruining their tomato harvest..

They will be screaming for more coal fired power plants to increase greenhouse gasses ..

Utter BS

[DogB]

Might need to take a quick look around Ben. Seems you've lost your sense of humor somewhere.

[rjh01]

Chose a large area of land you don't really need. Paint it white.

I did hear of an idea to make roads white for this reason. Not sure that it would work. They would not cool as much at night time.

[DogB]

Need these.

She glanced back as they passed beyond the arch, said: "They hurry to finish the quota in the plastics shop before we flee. We need many dew collectors for the planting."
"Flee?"

"Until the butchers stop hunting us or are driven from our land..."

"What're dew collectors?" he asked.

The glance she turned on him was full of surprise. "Don't they teach you anything in the . . . wherever it is you come from?"

"Not about dew collectors."

"Hai!" she said, and there was a whole conversation in the one word.

"Well, what are they?"

"Each bush, each weed you see out there in the erg," she said, "how do you suppose it lives when we leave it? Each is planted most tenderly in its own little pit. The pits are filled with smooth ovals of chromoplastic. Light turns them white. You can see them glistening in the dawn if you look down from a high place. White reflects. But when Old Father Sun departs, the chromoplastic reverts to transparency in the dark. It cools with extreme rapidity. The surface condenses moisture out of the air. That moisture trickles down to keep our plants alive."

"Dew collectors," he muttered, enchanted by the simple beauty of such a scheme.

From Dune, by Frank Herbert.
Published by Putnam in 1965

[quadraginta]

If you wait 500 years, the people who think less ice is normal, will be frantic, because it is increasing and ruining their tomato harvest..

They will be screaming for more coal fired power plants to increase greenhouse gasses ..

Utter BS


I expect you're right.

It won't need anywhere near 500 years.

50 will be plenty.

[Dancing David]

If you wait 500 years, the people who think less ice is normal, will be frantic, because it is increasing and ruining their tomato harvest..

They will be screaming for more coal fired power plants to increase greenhouse gasses ..


Do you live in Leamington ONT by any chance? :)

[Soapy Sam]

If you wait 500 years, the people who think less ice is normal, will be frantic, because it is increasing and ruining their tomato harvest..

They will be screaming for more coal fired power plants to increase greenhouse gasses ..


Depends on your definition of "normal" and the timescale of interest.
For most of the last 200 million years there were no ice caps at all.
The last two million have alternated between warmer and colder.
During the last 130,000 (since the start of the Late Quaternary at the 5e O2 event) we have at least half a dozen major climate flips from colder than now to as warm as or warmer than now.
The Holocene is in no sense an "average" climate period. No such thing seems to exist.

[Skeptical Greg]

Depends on your definition of "normal" and the timescale of interest.
' Normal ', is what people have come to expect over any indeterminate period of time...

A couple of generations of Icelandic tomato growers, would probably think the climate conducive to growing tomatoes is ' normal '..