Weed is 5x/10x/20x more potent than it was 20/30/40 years ago!

[oldhat]

I've heard so many people claim this as fact but I have yet to see any hard evidence. It sounds like a load of crap to me. Does anyone have scientific comparisons of THC content for today's strains with Acapulco Gold or whatever people smoked in the '60s?

[ClassyElf]

http://news.olemiss.edu/index.php/Ole-Miss-News/News-Releases/marijuanapotency051409.html

According to the University of Mississippi's findings, it's more than doubled in potency.

Wikipedia also has a few paragraphs on this.

[brodski]

Some data and analysis here.

http://www.badscience.net/2007/03/reefer-badness/

There has been an increase in the potency of certain types of cannabis (intensely cultivated herbal cannabis), the 5-25 times stronger claims just don't stand up to scrutiny.

[BenBurch]

I can attest to the fact that this is bogus, having made careful tests of it for the last 35 years.

[Jeff Corey]

Dave's not here. http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=dave%27s%20not%20here%20cheech%20and %20chong&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#

[quarky]

Pot is much stronger now, but so are women.

Stoned is still stoned, however.

[SimonD]

I've heard so many people claim this as fact but I have yet to see any hard evidence. It sounds like a load of crap to me. Does anyone have scientific comparisons of THC content for today's strains with Acapulco Gold or whatever people smoked in the '60s?

You make it sound like a bad thing:D

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Saying that some marijuana is much stronger than it used to be is only 1/2 of an argument. The other 1/2 goes unstated because it would be immediately laughed it. The other 1/2 is : "Since it is much stronger, there is a much greater chance of an overdose".

Where it takes 1 puff or a whole cigarette worth to make you go raid the fridge for that cookie dough, does it really matter?

[rjh01]

Where did it get stronger? Is the plant producing more drug (unlikely) or has the manufacturing process improved (unlikely to be consistent)? Or is it something else, like the testing process (what is left?)?

The later is what I heard. May not be correct, but makes sense.

[HeyLeroy]

Just a guess, having no personal empirical evidence to go by, it would make sense that selective breeding over the years has resulted in plants that are more conducive to producing larger amounts of the desired chemicals.

Kinda like pretty much every other cultivated plant since the dawn of cultivation.

[Andrew Wiggin]

At the risk of eliciting groans, I'm going to label this as an herban legend.

A

[aggle-rithm]

How can you hear news like this and NOT believe in intelligent design?!?

[Prometheus]

How can you hear news like this and NOT believe in intelligent design?!?

If the Designer had wanted us to consume THC, he'd have put it in the Banana (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Bananas:_The_Atheist's_Worst_Nightmare).

[Aepervius]

If the Designer had wanted us to consume THC, he'd have put it in the Banana (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Bananas:_The_Atheist's_Worst_Nightmare).

Hey.... This gave me a great idea for a new genetically modified banana..... I need to contact a few columbian friend for that....

[Andrew Wiggin]

An actually intelligent designer would have made fritos and potato chips with THC.

A.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I can attest to the fact that this is bogus, having made careful tests of it for the last 35 years.Not sure I'd trust your memory. ;)

[atavisms]

I've heard so many people claim this as fact but I have yet to see any hard evidence. It sounds like a load of crap to me. Does anyone have scientific comparisons of THC content for today's strains with Acapulco Gold or whatever people smoked in the '60s?

"scientific comparisons" no,
but I know a little about it.

Pot in the 60s was harvested seasonally and a mix of male and female plants, hence the seeds. This pot is still common today (called 'regz' or 'dirt weed' and im sure 1000 other things..

The high strength concoctions being produced are specially grown, usually with no soil. The techniques have spread over the years., growers have become more sophisticated w/all of this being driven by profit of course.

1 ounce of high end hydroponic pot in NY sells for approx $600. $900.
Its highly aromatic and powerful. Under a stereo microscope you can see it is completely covered hairs and crystals.

An ounce of what they smoked in the 60s, is still being smoked today,
sells for 100.-$150. oz

check out the 'prince of pot' in the NGC show Marijuana Nation
(its on torrentz) just insane what it gotten to.

imo, they should just decriminalize and tax that stuff

[BobK]

My suspicion is the reason they don't just decriminalize and tax pot is because the liquor lobby would fight it. The fact that you can't OD on pot and you don't get a hang-over is a big advantage. I also find I drive slower on pot.

[soylent]

The incentive is certainly there to make it happen. Just like under the prohibition of alcohol production shifted from beer and wine to hard liquor, much more compact and easy to conceal, marijuana production would be expected to shift towards the strongest varieties of the plant.

[Dancing David]

Where did it get stronger? Is the plant producing more drug (unlikely) or has the manufacturing process improved (unlikely to be consistent)? Or is it something else, like the testing process (what is left?)?

The later is what I heard. May not be correct, but makes sense.

Well as someone who is an ex-user and knows people who have cultivated it for a very long time , there are a number of issues.

1. Cultivation as opposed to 'wildflower' status:
-in the past much marijuana was allowed to just basically grow where it would. Usually untended and uncared for.
-now plants are often tended, fertilzed and the like
-males removed

2. Varieties of marijuans:
-grown for fiber and seeds at different times
-grown for intoxication
--one variety is leggy and produces more buds that mature slowly and grow longer
--one variety is shorter, produces few buds more quickly

3. Selection and breeding:
-just as with any agricultural product the growers often select , hybridize and cross breed
-there is a belief that the shorter faster producing plant has a higher potency
plants have definitely been selected for higher potency, but an incease is probably not going to be that huge.

So historically in the US and central america there have been populations of 'wild' marijuana, frequently from stock that was originally not intended for smoking or pressing for hash prouctions. So the 'ditch weed' that many people harvested was often very low in active ingredients or so high in seeds as to be useless.

In the 50s, 60s, 70s and so on different varieties were brought ot the US from Thailand , Mexico, Viet Nam these had seeds that many started to cultivate. In the eighties there began to be a large scale cottage industry of growing out doors or preferably indoors under halogen light, now compact flourescents. At that time there began to be much more interest in plant variesties and increasing potency. (You can look at the catalogs if you want, especially in the Ntherlands)

Now many people do not breed their own dope, they use vegetative propagation.

So while there has been an increase in potency from like 1% active in gredient to 4% (for example not reality) active ingredient, it has by and large been through standard breeding prectices, and the use of tertragenic compounds to double chromosones. (Polyploidy)

[Praktik]

Saying that some marijuana is much stronger than it used to be is only 1/2 of an argument. The other 1/2 goes unstated because it would be immediately laughed it. The other 1/2 is : "Since it is much stronger, there is a much greater chance of an overdose".

Where it takes 1 puff or a whole cigarette worth to make you go raid the fridge for that cookie dough, does it really matter?

This is exactly it. It is smoked much, much more often than it is ingested orally. And this method has the high kick in very quickly. So while the pot may be stronger now, the dosing of it is highly controllable and the nature of the high is such that people get to the point of satisfaction and genuinely don't display any interest to continue smoking.

"Naw man. I'm good..."

This means that most pot will result in the same kind of high for experienced users: weak pot is rolled into massive cannons. Strong pot is toked on twice in a pipe and saved for later.

Orally ingesting drugs like alcohol requires that your body metabolize it in your stomach - delaying the effect and therefore resulting in dosages over the comfort level of the user quite easily.

Albeit, this can happen with pot that is eaten as well. The horrifying result of which is ending one's night early. This is the sad face of drug abuse. All round the country, every weekend, there are individuals that miss out on the merriment of their social peers - tucked into the corner of the couch sleeping soundly, oblivious to the fact they're missing out on a good time.

They'll feel it in the morning, those poor, well-rested souls...

[Gate2501]

Saying that some marijuana is much stronger than it used to be is only 1/2 of an argument. The other 1/2 goes unstated because it would be immediately laughed it. The other 1/2 is : "Since it is much stronger, there is a much greater chance of an overdose".

Where it takes 1 puff or a whole cigarette worth to make you go raid the fridge for that cookie dough, does it really matter?

I suffered an accidental overdose just last night, it was horrible.

I ate about a quart of spicy chili, then went back for 2 ham sandwiches with the works. I finished it all off with 4 or 5 Oreo cookies and a glass of ice cold milk. Perhaps this should be the face of our "anti-drug" commercials here in the states. Gate2501 sitting on the kitchen floor in his boxers with a package of cookies and a glass of milk, smiling hard, oblivious to the fact that he will have to exercise this all off tomorrow...

[Praktik]

It used to be about the music Gate!!!

[Justin39640]

http://www.ondcp.gov/news/press09/051409.html
most important difference it like it was mentioned before
pot is big business now
your better pot is grown in factories not fields under very strict conditions
and with cross breeding cloning and other things you can totally get stronger pot

but according to the study above
even the dirt from mexico has almost twice the potency (hehe)

i have done many studies personally of the subject (lol)
you can totally tell now the pot is way stronger than it was 20 years ago
older guys will confirm that too

[geni]

Orally ingesting drugs like alcohol requires that your body metabolize it in your stomach - delaying the effect and therefore resulting in dosages over the comfort level of the user quite easily.

You body does not metabolise ethanol untill after it has had an effect. It also absorbs the stuff very fast. The delay is only really an issue with shots of spirits.

[geni]

It would be stranger if strains of Cannabis with higher THC levels were not being grown. Humans will carry out selective breeding on any crop. The closest case would be european famers breeding hemp for lower THC levels over the last few dacades.

[Schwarzwald]

Even if the THC levels were higher, that means you get more out of each puff (If you choose to burn it instead of vaporization or baking)

So this only shows that the logic of those trying to push this idea is just terrible.

The more THC means the less heated plant matter you take in your lungs. Because unlike alcohol, once your stoned you don't really feel an urge to keep smoking once you good and high.

[jakesteele]

I've heard so many people claim this as fact but I have yet to see any hard evidence. It sounds like a load of crap to me. Does anyone have scientific comparisons of THC content for today's strains with Acapulco Gold or whatever people smoked in the '60s?

I am a child of the '60s and all that that implies. I'm not going to bother trying to find sites with stats because I was there and I done it. Trust me on this. The first wave of pot was almost exclusively Mexican and most of it was ******. We called it "rag weed" or "Kansas City ******" There was some decent hash that came through on different occasions that was very potent, but for the most part the weed would be like comparing Budwieser beer to a bottle of whiskey.

The next wave that hit in the mid '70s was Columbian weed and Thai sticks. Both were significantly more potent. Compare Budwieser beer to wine. A couple of times I got a hold of some superior Columbian that was on par with the average green bud nowadays. Also, people started making hash oil which was very potent.

The thrid wave was the indoor halide light green bug that we have today.

Trust me, there has been a steady progression/evolution in the potency of cannibis. I've been there, done that in all three waves.:cool:

[Safe-Keeper]

Weed is 5x/10x/20x more potent than it was 20/30/40 years ago!Is this one of those su doku titles I've been hearing about:p?

[Soapy Sam]

Is this homoeopathic weed?

[makaya325]

Weed>>>>>>>>>cigarettes

[Zeuzzz]

THC may have gone up compared to all the other plethora of active chemicals in cannabis. Very odd, as although THC is the main active ingredient, its effects by itself are the least desirable of nealry all of the chemicals in cannabis (most likely to induce temporary psychosis type symptoms compared to its other ingredients). Its the cannabiniods that give the main wanted effects from cannabis, but but silly growers are still in the 'more thc crystals = better' mindset.

A lot of up to date cannabis smokers have elimated THC from theirs completely, and smoke legal smoking blends of their choice, which use pharmaceutical synthetic cannabinoids like jwh-018, jwh-73, Jwh-200, CP 47,497, CP 55,940, etc, instead with no THC involved. Less chance of lung cancer that way as dosages are so much less (1-3mg for some). Much cheaper. And less chance of getting involved in breaking the law in the truly ridiculous war on drugs *cough: war on personal liberties*

[Zeuzzz]

A rather naive presenter, but never-the-less showing results directly from an intravenous (or intramuscular?) THC and cannabinoid test:

dZFJE4kjjdY

[quarky]

Good thing LSD has gotten weaker (smaller doses, anyway) to offset all this killer bud.

[shawmutt]

My suspicion is the reason they don't just decriminalize and tax pot is because the liquor lobby would fight it. The fact that you can't OD on pot and you don't get a hang-over is a big advantage. I also find I drive slower on pot.

Anything that slows down response time is GREAT to do whilst driving. Sorry, the motorbiker in me just puked in my mouth. They should legalize it so they can get more DUI'rs off the damn road.

[Zeuzzz]

Anything that slows down response time is GREAT to do whilst driving. Sorry, the motorbiker in me just puked in my mouth. They should legalize it so they can get more DUI'rs off the damn road.

It depends on the person. Generally someone who is an experienced smoker who is merely monged out drives slower, more cautiously and will have less accidents. Someone who has no tollerance to it, or gets different effects like hyperactivity (rare!) or odd thoughts from cannabis may so something very silly.

But yes, the evidence does show that generally cannabis influenced driving is less safe than sober driving (and miiiiiiiles more safe than drink driving)

[Zeuzzz]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9d8_1188900563 < driving and cannabis video

[geni]

It depends on the person. Generally someone who is an experienced smoker who is merely monged out drives slower, more cautiously and will have less accidents.

Science would beg to differ:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18635724?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum


But yes, the evidence does show that generally cannabis influenced driving is less safe than sober driving (and miiiiiiiles more safe than drink driving)

Miles is an overestimate. 300 microg/kg THC and 0.05 g/dl ethanol appear to be roughly equiv. What is true is the impairment method differs so consumeing cannabis and ethanol before driveing makes for an impressively high level of risk.

[autumn1971]

This study and another one I once saw indicate that seized C. sativa was tested. Sativa is the "regs" or "dirt weed" mentioned above, while the C. indica species is the "skunk", or "chronic" often revered as much more powerful. It has been a while, so I could be wrong, but it seems that these studies are finding that weak weed has gotten better, with no mention of the top-quality weed.

[Dancing David]

This is exactly it. It is smoked much, much more often than it is ingested orally. And this method has the high kick in very quickly. So while the pot may be stronger now, the dosing of it is highly controllable and the nature of the high is such that people get to the point of satisfaction and genuinely don't display any interest to continue smoking.

"Naw man. I'm good..."

This means that most pot will result in the same kind of high for experienced users: weak pot is rolled into massive cannons. Strong pot is toked on twice in a pipe and saved for later.

Orally ingesting drugs like alcohol requires that your body metabolize it in your stomach - delaying the effect and therefore resulting in dosages over the comfort level of the user quite easily.

Albeit, this can happen with pot that is eaten as well. The horrifying result of which is ending one's night early. This is the sad face of drug abuse. All round the country, every weekend, there are individuals that miss out on the merriment of their social peers - tucked into the corner of the couch sleeping soundly, oblivious to the fact they're missing out on a good time.

They'll feel it in the morning, those poor, well-rested souls...


There are studies where the victorians fed dogs huge amounts of hash to see what would happen, the dogs slept and woke up and ate a lot.

[Tumbleweed]

Aw come on . Burbank wasn't the only successful selector of traits to form a new variety. And look at apples. So why not pot? PLENTY of naughty people out there messing around with it. Think the Netherlands. With enough genetic tinkering they will eventually come up with a hardy annual that looks just like, say, a sunflower, or a shade variety that can be hidden in forests. Or a Kudzu or Tamarisk type that defies eradication once it gets a foot hold, planted all along the Mississippi, Columbia and Colorado Rivers by a self proclaimed Johnny Potseed

[ponderingturtle]

Where did it get stronger? Is the plant producing more drug (unlikely)

This is not at all unlikely. It is a specific drug. Look at how people have created hotter and hotter chili peppers. This is basic selective breeding. Also see orange carrots, they produce so much more betacarrotine that they are orange, and this is cited as having been done for political reasons(supporting the house of orange).

[ponderingturtle]

There are studies where the victorians fed dogs huge amounts of hash to see what would happen, the dogs slept and woke up and ate a lot.

Sounds like normal behavior for a dog.

[paiute]

I've heard so many people claim this as fact but I have yet to see any hard evidence. It sounds like a load of crap to me. Does anyone have scientific comparisons of THC content for today's strains with Acapulco Gold or whatever people smoked in the '60s?

ummm....


what?

[Dancing David]

Sounds like normal behavior for a dog.

It was something like sleep for three days, i have never eaten a huge amount of dope myself, but have known people to play 'lost weekend' that way. You exhale 90% of the active stuff when you smoke, so if you eat an ounce of weed it is like smoking 10 ounces.

[quarky]

I don't exhale.

[Justin39640]

It was something like sleep for three days, i have never eaten a huge amount of dope myself, but have known people to play 'lost weekend' that way. You exhale 90% of the active stuff when you smoke, so if you eat an ounce of weed it is like smoking 10 ounces.

people dont realize that about eating it and freak out
like this cop lol
hrZLc9lqQM0

I don't exhale.

werd :thumbsup:

[Dancing David]

people dont realize that about eating it and freak out
like this cop lol
hrZLc9lqQM0



werd :thumbsup:

That video may be a spoof but it is still great... so they used a 1/4 ounce (hey man would you smaoke that much at once?) 10/4=2 1/2, so if they both ate half a pan of brownies it would be the equivalent of smoking 1 1/4 ounces, yup you are way stoned. Sit down drink fluids and then sleep.

[Fishstick]

So, whats the big deal? If pot is stronger, you use less per joint to get the same high. It's not like people don't self-dose.

[Justin39640]

That video may be a spoof but it is still great... so they used a 1/4 ounce (hey man would you smaoke that much at once?) 10/4=2 1/2, so if they both ate half a pan of brownies it would be the equivalent of smoking 1 1/4 ounces, yup you are way stoned. Sit down drink fluids and then sleep.
from what ive read that video is a real 911 call (i looked for claims that its fake but didnt see any)
ive smoked a 1/4 back in the day in a sitting with a friend
i couldnt imagine eating that much lol

and before you kids decide to chow down on that juicy bud youre staring at now
eating it raw wont do anything (even if buds are cooked in the mix)
its just a waste lol

So, whats the big deal? If pot is stronger, you use less per joint to get the same high. It's not like people don't self-dose.

i would tend to conserve and get stronger stuff for that reason
my friend though smokes till his lungs are gonna fall out
so its kind of a personal taste thing
i guess lol

[Zeuzzz]

I don't exhale.

Now why didn't I ever think of that? Way to go on maximizing your effects :cool:

[dlorde]

I understand that THC analysis shows that certain varieties of weed, generally known in the UK as 'skunk' are about two to three times as potent as 'traditional' varieties mainly due to selective breeding. Better hydroponics, knowledge of nutrition, lighting cycles, avoiding fertilisation (sensimilla), and so-on help, but all varieties benefit from these. However, THC concentration isn't everything, and there are other cannabinoids in weed that modify the effects considerably. Experienced smokers will tend avoid crude, high THC, sledgehammer dope like skunk, and will often have one or more favourite varieties with the specific properties that appeal to them. There is a surprising variation in the effects, from the speedy stimulating highs of the sativas, to the contemplative 'zonks' of the indicas, and numerous blends in between.

As with most psychotropic drugs, legal and illegal, moderate and/or occasional 'recreational' use is relatively harmless. The problems tend to arise when these substances are used regularly and to excess as an escape from the reality of an unpleasant environment, or from boredom, or such like. This is where skunk finds a major and increasing role.

[godless dave]

Where did it get stronger? Is the plant producing more drug (unlikely)

I don't see how that's unlikely. Like all domesticated plants, it's been subject to selective breeding. People have been breeding for a greater concentration of cannabinoids, which, to can extent, can be confirmed objectively by the amount of crystals on the buds.

My own guess is that outdoor grown cannabis (aka "regular") is roughly the same potency as 40 years ago, but some strains of indoor-grown cannabis have gotten considerably more potent.

[Dancing David]

Um, I beg to differ, but then I know someone who grows outdoors and breeds. When he introduced the indica strain the potency went way up.

[quarky]

Um, I beg to differ, but then I know someone who grows outdoors and breeds. When he introduced the indica strain the potency went way up.

Absolutely. Also, growers got hip to various fertilizers, added at certain times.
I've , um, "heard of" outdoors pot that is every bit as potent as any indoor variety. Why wouldn't it be?

[godless dave]

Um, I beg to differ, but then I know someone who grows outdoors and breeds. When he introduced the indica strain the potency went way up.

Like I said, I was guessing. Here in Minnesota the only outdoor grown strains I have access to are pressed in a garbage compactor and shipped up from down south somewhere.