Was John Lennon's Death a murder or assassination?

[Fat Bottom Gurl]

From wiki - the definition of assassination:

"Assassination is the targeted killing of a public figure. Assassinations may be prompted by ideological, political, or military reasons. Additionally, assassins may be motivated by financial gain, revenge, personal public recognition, or mental illness."

From Wiki - the definition of murder:

"Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought), and generally this state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). As the loss of a human being inflicts enormous grief upon the individuals close to the victim, as well as the fact that the commission of a murder permanently deprives the victim of their existence, most societies both present and in antiquity have considered it a most serious crime worthy of the harshest of punishment. Typically a convicted murder suspect is given a life sentence or even the death penalty for such an act. "

What constitutes a public figure? Anyone who is a celebrity?

[coalesce]

It's both. I still remember that night, watching my Dolphins play the Patriots on Monday Night Football and having Howard Cosell break in and announce that John had been murdered. I think had that happened now, that news would've broke the Internet.

Like him or not, we'll never see a man like that again.

Michael

[MG1962]

I still miss him terribly

[Southwind17]

I suspect it's both. Is "Assassination", per se, a crime?

[six7s]

From wiki - the definition of assassination:

...Assassinations may be prompted by ideological, political, or military reasons. Additionally, assassins may be motivated by financial gain, revenge, personal public recognition, or mental illness."If that is an accepted defintion, then yes; assasination

news.bbc.co.uk John Lennon killer 'wanted fame' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3745492.stm)John Lennon's killer Mark Chapman shot the former Beatle because he wanted to "steal" his fame, he told a recent parole board hearing.

<snip/>

It was just a tremendous compulsion of just feeling this big hole

<snip/>

Chapman expanded on his reasons for the shooting by saying: "It was just a tremendous compulsion of just feeling this big hole.

"Of being what I thought was a big nobody, a big nothing, and I couldn't let it go. And it just kept going very strongly, and I couldn't stop it."

[noblecaboose]

I say murder. Because of his outspoken political views it is often described as an assassination, though Mark Chapman's motives weren't political, but personal. It technically could be considered an assassination by the definition used above, but that would be stretching the connotative meaning a bit.

I don't remember that night, as I was too busy being born. By the time I emerged into the world, John Lennon was no longer in it. My dad saved the newspaper from the day I was born, on which is printed a giant headline: "JOHN LENNON KILLED!" A day of mixed feelings, to be sure.

[six7s]

Because of his outspoken political views it is often described as an assassinationSays who?

[korenyx]

I think John Lennon's shooting was murder; George Tiller's was an assassination.

[Cicero]

It's both. I still remember that night, watching my Dolphins play the Patriots on Monday Night Football and having Howard Cosell break in and announce that John had been murdered. I think had that happened now, that news would've broke the Internet.

Like him or not, we'll never see a man like that again.

Michael

You are right. We'll never see a man like Howard Cosell again.

[gregthehammer]

Possibly a newbie question, but isn't an assassination a subset of murder? Therefore if John's killing is considered an assassination, wouldn't it also be a murder?

[Southwind17]

Possibly a newbie question, but isn't an assassination a subset of murder? Therefore if John's killing is considered an assassination, wouldn't it also be a murder?
Yes it would, IF it was an assassination. Regardless, it was murder in any event. I think the key question being asked is: Was John Lennon assassinated?

[imjohn]

Yes it would, IF it was an assassination. Regardless, it was murder in any event. I think the key question being asked is: Was John Lennon assassinated?
It depends on your definition of the word -- something that appears to be problematic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination#Definition_problem

[Darth Rotor]

Like him or not, we'll never see a man like that again.

Yes, we will, lots of them. That doesn't mean he wasn't a great talent, but let's not over sell that one.

DR

[DevilsAdvocate]

An assassination is killing a person to stop their power (political, economic, social, etc.) within a community. An assassination’s intent is to kill the power; killing the person is incidental.

When John Lennon was killed, it was clearly not to stop his power. But it was also clearly not to kill the person, or simply a random killing. Lennon was targeted because of his social significance and was killed solely for that reason.

So the question is, is it considered assassination if someone is killed solely because of their political/economic/social status within a community, even if the intent is not to stop some power of that person?

I think “assassination” can be appropriate. If a person is killed solely because of their fame, that seems to fall into the category of killing the “power” rather than the person, which could be called assassination.

Hinckley’s attempt on Reagan is almost always called an “assassination” attempt even though Hinckley’s intent was not to stop Reagan’s power and was just to kill someone famous, like Chapman.

[DevilsAdvocate]

After reading a bit more about Chapman, I would certainly authorize "assassination". There was at least some intent (however psychologically confused it may be) to kill Lennon because of his beliefs and (perceived) influence on society.

[coalesce]

You are right. We'll never see a man like Howard Cosell again.

But we all know that Howard Cosell was NOTHING without Dandy Don Meredith!

Michael

[Cicero]

An assassination is killing a person to stop their power (political, economic, social, etc.) within a community. An assassination’s intent is to kill the power; killing the person is incidental.

When John Lennon was killed, it was clearly not to stop his power. But it was also clearly not to kill the person, or simply a random killing. Lennon was targeted because of his social significance and was killed solely for that reason.


What social significance did Lennon wield in 1980? Lennon's last album, "Double Fantasy" was hardly political. Unless you consider "Women" to have some radical message. Chapman had a list of other celebrities he had thought about killing.

So the question is, is it considered assassination if someone is killed solely because of their political/economic/social status within a community, even if the intent is not to stop some power of that person?

I think “assassination” can be appropriate. If a person is killed solely because of their fame, that seems to fall into the category of killing the “power” rather than the person, which could be called assassination.


No. Killing a celebrity then makes you a celeberity. Has nothing to do with "power," and everything to do with the person.

Hinckley’s attempt on Reagan is almost always called an “assassination” attempt even though Hinckley’s intent was not to stop Reagan’s power and was just to kill someone famous, like Chapman.


By this definition, Sirhan Sirhan didn't "assassinate" RFK. Hinckley shot at Press Secretary James Brady, Officer Thomas Delahanty, Security Agent Timothy J. McCarthy as well as POTUS Reagan. These people were not famous. Hinckley was also found "not guilty by reason of insanity." When of course he was guilty whether he was sane or insane.

Hinckley did tell Jodie Foster that the reason he was going to shoot Reagan was to impress her. Impressing someone was not the motivation for why Chapman killed Lennon.

[Ysidro]

He wasn't killed by an obscure islamic cult loved by past conspiracy theorists. Therefore it wasn't an assasination. :D

[six7s]

Like him or not, we'll never see a man like that again.Yes, we will, lots of them.He's been dead for almost 29 years...

How long do we have to live to see "lots" of men like him?