Would you have children?

[JAStewart]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

[Soapy Sam]

I never had any desire to raise children.
I think many people drift into it because of peer and family expectation, which is a damn shame.
People who don't want dogs shouldn't have dogs. The same goes for children.

I don't recall the disability issue coming up. If I didn't want healthy children, I probably never thought about having a disabled one.

[Beth]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

No, I never gave it much thought prior to having kids. I have occasionally had the thought cross my mind since, but I worry more about it with my spouse. If we both live long enough, it's likely one of us will end up having to take care of a spouse who can no longer care for themselves. Would you avoid marriage for that reason?

[Piscivore]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?

Sure. But unless you've got a family history of such thinkgs I think the risk is pretty low. I'm pretty sure nowadays you can get a screening that will test for such a propensity, as well.

Aside from that, there's nothing wrong with not wanting kids right now, for any reason. You're just a kid, go out and do some of the things you want to do, achieve a career goal or two, then worry about having kids in a few years or ten.

[Cainkane1]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...
My suggestion is to not have children if this is the way you feel. Even under the best of circumstances raising children is a challenge. So do yourself a favor and the potential child a favor and don't have kids.

This sounds like I'm condemning you but I'm not. Not really. You're being upfront and honest and I admire that so don't gamble with your own happiness and the welfare of a child by having one.

[Francesca R]

I just don't want to have a disabled child. [ . . . ] To those who don't: Does this worry you too?
I'm sure it would concern me during a pregnancy but I don't think it would be a swing factor that would make my decision for me.

[JAStewart]

If we both live long enough, it's likely one of us will end up having to take care of a spouse who can no longer care for themselves. Would you avoid marriage for that reason?
I don't really intend to get married but that doesn't mean I wouldn't face that issue.

[Brainster]

It is quite normal for a 21-year-old to say they don't want to have kids; to a certain degree I think almost all of them should not (at that age).

However, you may find that your interests change; as you tackle more and more responsibility in your life (as inevitably most people do), you will gain confidence in your ability to handle complex tasks like child-rearing.

[Cleon]

Depends on what age and how they're prepared.

Deep-fried baby, for example, is just not very good; it's just too fatty. For a baby or toddler, you want a nice slow roast, or maybe some baby-back ribs. For older children, frying might still be an option, but be careful! I can't tell you how many house fires have been started because people didn't take adequate precautions before frying their children.

Even for older kids, though, my preference is a nice long roast, some mint jelly, and a parsley garnish.

[quadraginta]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

If you don't want to have children then don't have children. The reasons for not wanting to can cover a wide spectrum, but any serious reservation is cause for concern. It isn't a commitment to enter into halfheartedly.

In fact, take steps to avoid parenthood. Not wanting children isn't a default disqualification for parenthood, but it is a substantial disadvantage.

At 21 that's probably a good plan anyway.

Should you decide in the future that you've changed your mind I expect the reasons will be fairly compelling. In the absence of known issues of heredity it isn't likely that fear of a disabled child will be an overwhelming consideration.

Don't worry too much about other people's motives (except your partner's). Any similarities to your own will be obvious. Any differences will be irrelevant.

[themusicteacher]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

Sounds like it is freedom you're after. A disabled child is even more of a time-consumer than is a non-disabled one and even they suck up much of your free time. I wouldn't say it's abnormal to not want kids, though, especially at your age and place in life. You may change your mind sometime later and that's okay. I was pretty much of the same mind when I was your age but my son was born 5 years after that and we have another on the way. Kids are great IF you want them and intend to have them. This world has enough reluctant parents, parents-in-denial, parents who can't afford to be parents (but apparently can't afford birth control), parents who shouldn't be parents, parents who still need to be parented and parents who think their genes are their gift to the world ten times over. Usually, these people are some combination of the aforementioned.

[LostAngeles]

I have no idea what to do with a baby. They're noisy and messy and need constant attention. You can't talk to them. They can't tell you what's wrong and they're fragile as all ****. I don't care what you moms say. I don't think that's going to magically change once I push one out. I'm not having a baby.

Now, if I find myself wanting kids, I'll adopt.

Otherwise, I already have noisy, messy creatures in need of constant attention and have limited communication ability. They're called cats and I can leave them alone while I go do other things.

As for age: I'm 30.

[Marc39]

Your perspective on children will likely evolve over time.

At some point, most people want a deeper, more substantive level of satisfaction in their lives and there is no greater sense of reward than raising children.

I never thought I'd quite feel this way until we started a family. There is no greater joy, IMO.

[JAStewart]

I have no doubt that raising children is a joy in some respects, but again I wouldn't have kids at the risk of having a child I'd have to care for for the rest of my life.

[Marc39]

I have no doubt that raising children is a joy in some respects, but again I wouldn't have kids at the risk of having a child I'd have to care for for the rest of my life.

Well, the chances are small and with advanced medical technology, you'd know in advance.

Using your thinking, you could never even get married: What if your wife were to become severely stricken with a lifelong illness necessitating you take care of her?

Of course, if your parents had been fearful of having children, you wouldn't be here.

[qayak]

I have no doubt that raising children is a joy in some respects, but again I wouldn't have kids at the risk of having a child I'd have to care for for the rest of my life.

Like your parents care for you?

[Steve]

@ JAStewart:

Never say never. At age 21 I felt much the same way as you. At age 30 my fiance accepted that I "never" wanted children and agreed to marry me anyway. Within 6 months of the wedding I had a vasectomy to ensure that I would "never" have children. Fast forward 20 years. Due to a long series of events that I have described elsewhere in these fora I became adoptive daddy to the most beautiful baby girl in the world. She is now approaching her eighth birthday and I have not regretted one second of the time she has been with us. People can and do change. What I "never" wanted to do at 20 or 30 became exactly what I wanted to do at 50.


You can't talk to them. They can't tell you what's wrong and they're fragile as all ****. .

Actually LA, most parents can and do talk to their babies all the time. They just do not expect a coherent response :D. Also, babies being "fragile" is a common misconception. They are tough little buggers and very resistant to damage as long as they are handled properly - look what they had to go through just to be born.

[Starthinker]

None of our children were planned. They just sort of happened. Right now I can't imagine life without them. My youngest are 18 (then next two are 21 and 23) and right now I am dealing with the issue of wanting to move out of this godforsaken land but I just can't leave my kids behind. Sure, they are old enough to be on their own and the older two are doing great for themselves, but firstly, I feel bad cause I'd be moving on without them, almost as if I was abandoning them, and secondly, I can't stand not knowing what they are doing, how they are doing, if they need help, are they hungry, etc., etc..

Would I do anything differently? I don't know. I write a lot of science fiction with emotional issues and one of my stories dealt with a man who wakes up in his childhood so he's been given a second chance to live his life again, but after he finds his love and has his first baby, it's not the same baby he had the first time so he comes to the realization that the kids he knew and loved would never be born. It's a horrible shock to him and the rest of the story is how he copes with just that. (I should write for Hollywood, huh?) As it stands, I have kids, I love them, and I'm glad I had them. You may not want kids but may have an oops baby somewhere along the line and just maybe you'll find it's the best damned thing that ever happened to you.

Either way, life is good, just live it and be happy.

[Rolfe]

This is from Psalm 126 - we were singing a 400-year-old setting of it at choir practice on Sunday, and the text is what, 4,000 years old?

Ecce hæreditas Domini, filii; merces, fructus ventris. Sicut sagittæ in manu potentis, ita filii excussorum.
Beatus vir qui implevit desiderium suum ex ipsis: non confundetur cum loquetur inimicis suis in porta.


Seems to have been quite a popular opinion for a helluva long time. Which is probably just as well for the survival of the species.

Having said that, the very idea gives me the screaming ab-dabs. For some reason I imagine the sprog would inevitably loathe my guts and we'd spend the next 20 years yelling at each other.

There's probably something to be said for having offspring to return the compliment and look after you when you're geriatric. I suggest cultivating nieces and nephews in advance, or the children of friends if you don't have nieces and nephews. :D

Rolfe.

[JAStewart]

Like your parents care for you?
I'm fine for that kind of responsibility. I'm at uni now and financially independent of my parents now.

But 24-hour care? No way.

[Piscivore]

They can't tell you what's wrong

Well, not in a formal dialect, no. But just like pets, it's not too difficult to figure out after awhile.

[lionking]

My wife and I have 7 kids (and three miscarriages), but didn't have the first until the late 20's, which helped because we had a house etc (ironically we didn't think we had kids at all). All are healthy, but we did have tests for disabilities like Downs Syndrome, particularly as my wife got older (she had the last at 45 I think). We never really discussed what we would do if there was any disability, but I am inclined to think we would have had it aborted.

But we would have not done anything differently - my wife would have had more - despite the obvious financial drain and time commitment. When we all get together, which is now only a handful of times a year, everything becomes worthwhile.

Roll on grandkids.

[IMST]

Your perspective on children will likely evolve over time.

I agree with this. When I was 21, my perspective on children was "**** no!"
Now, at 28, it's "**** no."

[Professor Yaffle]

It wasn't something I greatly dwelt on when deciding to have my two kids, but its definitely a factor in my decsion to probably not have any more. My sister had a baby (her 4th) at 39, and her age was probably a factor in her daughter being born with a severe abnormality of her heart. She's doing well now (had a transplant), but it does make me more wary of the increasing risks of this sort of thing as you get older. My thoughts are less about having a child being dependent on me for longer because of disability, but more about not wanting to put a baby through what poor Ruby went through in the first few months of her life.

[fleabeetle]

Have never, ever wanted kids – not for one second. For me, re myself, see it as mostly wiping out, what is most agreeable and interesting in life. See self (now in my early 60s) as a born bachelor and solitary – what life has taught me re own matters and situations, is that having a “life’s partner” (save for a lucky few) is likely to deliver more misery than satisfaction – except in matter of, somebody to have sex with: and availability of that, likely to be in assorted ways, highly precarious. (I did get close to marrying, at one point; but it didn’t come to pass – mercifully; we would have made each other unspeakably wretched.)

All that said – people’s mileages vary, and I sincerely wish well to those who do find parenthood something worthwhile, and to be desired, for them. Re myself – as to parenthood turning out, when it befalls one, to be a salutary and to-be-glad-of experience: I always equate that one, with thoughts sometimes heard from survivors of Nazi or Soviet concentration camps. Folk who came through that stuff alive and sane, describe it as having been for them, a character-building experience. I don’t dispute that – but it’s character-building which I’m extremely glad to have missed out on, thank you very much.

[Quad4_72]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

Your priorities change greatly once you have been graduated a few years. You realize partying and having freedom isn't everything. Just wait.

[qayak]

I'm fine for that kind of responsibility. I'm at uni now and financially independent of my parents now.

But 24-hour care? No way.

Like your parents did for you? :D

Don't worry about it. No matter how you feel about children it is perfectly okay. The only thing I recommend is that you be honest with your future spouse. Don't hint that you might want children if you never intend to have them.

[TragicMonkey]

I just want to say that right now, this thread titled "Would you have children" is directly above the "Roman Polanski arrested" thread.

[qayak]

i just want to say that right now, this thread titled "would you have children" is directly above the "roman polanski arrested" thread.

:D

ETA: Freaking emoticons ain't workin'!

ETA2: Now they is!

[rustypouch]

Heh.

I seriously doubt it. I am 30, and can barely take care of myself. I couldn't imagine the massive responsibility involved.

Then there is the issue of finding someone willing to breed with me.

[slingblade]

I have two sons, so I guess my answer is no.

[Darth Rotor]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

At your age, I could not fathom having kids. I appreciate your apprehension. Yes, raising children demands a lot of you, a sacrifice. At age 30, I not only could, but we did. My wife and I are pleased we did. My son is 17, my daugher 20.

JA, does it ever occur to you that someone had and raised YOU? ;)

[LostAngeles]

Actually LA, most parents can and do talk to their babies all the time. They just do not expect a coherent response :D. Also, babies being "fragile" is a common misconception. They are tough little buggers and very resistant to damage as long as they are handled properly - look what they had to go through just to be born.

Sorry, I meant, "with," them. Baby rolls over the wrong way? Dead baby. Baby's neck not supported? Crippled or dead baby.

My cat rolls over the wrong way and he falls off the bed with a sheepish look.

Sorry. Again, I'm keeping my womb child-free. I want a kid, I'll go adopt. Plenty of kids that need parents.

[Soapy Sam]

This is from Psalm 126 - we were singing a 400-year-old setting of it at choir practice on Sunday, and the text is what, 4,000 years old?
Rolfe.
For those who did not benefit from a Scottish education:-
"See weans? No sae much a gift fae God as like darts in the paw o' Jocky Wilson. If ye've a mob o' them naebody can get through yer door."

[Arus808]

at 21 i thought that getting married and having children was ridiculous. yet I had friends having a family right out of high school. Im like "what about school? a career? Traveling???"

at 30+, I want to have children, though finding the right person to have them with, is becoming much harder.

Just wanted to add, that at 21, many people are of the mind that having children is the furthest thing from their mind.

wait 10 years...you may have a change of heart.

[godless dave]

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.


To those who don't: Does this worry you too?


It did occur to me, but it's not the primary reason I'm not having children.

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

Sorry, I meant, "with," them. Baby rolls over the wrong way? Dead baby. Baby's neck not supported? Crippled or dead baby.

My cat rolls over the wrong way and he falls off the bed with a sheepish look.

As dogguy mentioned, babies aren't nearly as fragile as you seem to think. Most babies will, at some point in their "babyhood" do all of the above, and very few end up dead or with a broken neck. Yes, they are more fragile than a fully-grown person (by virtue of being smaller and not having fully-developed bones or immune system) and you have to take care, but then, adults can be killed by pretty innocuous things as well. Most parents I know (myself included) have had a baby roll off a bed or changing table, bonk their head on something, etc. etc. The vast majority of babies make it through all these things just fine.

[Rolfe]

For those who did not benefit from a Scottish education:-
"See weans? No sae much a gift fae God as like darts in the paw o' Jocky Wilson. If ye've a mob o' them naebody can get through yer door."


Did you actually look that up in a Lallans bible?

:confused: Jocky Wilson kind of dates it, don't you think? :confused:

Rolfe.

[LostAngeles]

Oh, well **** it. I guess everything you've all said means I should stop not wanting kids especially since I'm the nice, mature age of 30! Time to go rip out my IUS!

Maybe I should be a bit more direct here: I don't like babies. I am not comfortable with them. I don't want them. I don't want to be worrying every second of the day if I'm going to **** up and kill or injure my baby. I don't want to be standing there frustrated because my baby won't stop crying and nothing I do is calming it.

I don't want babies. Stop trying to convince me otherwise.

[Kariboo]

Oh, well **** it. I guess everything you've all said means I should stop not wanting kids especially since I'm the nice, mature age of 30! Time to go rip out my IUS!

Maybe I should be a bit more direct here: I don't like babies. I am not comfortable with them. I don't want them. I don't want to be worrying every second of the day if I'm going to **** up and kill or injure my baby. I don't want to be standing there frustrated because my baby won't stop crying and nothing I do is calming it.

I don't want babies. Stop trying to convince me otherwise.

I'm with you. I'm 37 and perfectly able to make up my mind. Don't want them. There are some of us who don't magically change our minds when we get older.

The sick child issue of the OP is only a small part of that decision (mainly because I don't have a desire to take care of a child for the next 18 years, healthy or no). It ranks below tearing / becoming incontinent due to giving birth, on my list of reasons not to want children.

If we ever settle down enough I would like to be a foster parent, though I prefer adolescents

[Bill Thompson]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

When it happens and if it happens, it changes you. It changes you in ways you cannot imagine now.

In fact, I think that even if you try, you will not be able to.

But let me tell you this, in case it ever happens to you, the first year is work but, after that, it is tons of fun.

Also, you freaking have no freaking idea what love is until you have a kid. Oh, sure, you might have a girlfriend and say all the "I love you"'s and all and you might think of her night and day and when you are with her you feel complete and blah blah blah blah. That isn't ANYthing compared to the dormant neurons that are triggered when you have a kid. You have no idea.

Plus, there is the fact that blood is thicker than water. Your parents are direct blood relatives. But they are not going to be around forever. Your brother and sister are blood relatives but they are kind of off-shoots. Your kid is a direct blood relative. Noone is really going to love you more than your baby. And you are never really going to love anyone as much as your kid. Oh, sure, you can buy a puppy. Now, just imagine if that puppy that is overjoyed to see you when you come home is a miniture person.

I was once like you. I had no idea why anyone would WANT to have a kid. But now that I have one, I understand.

[bruto]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...All those things crossed my mind. I didn't want kids when I was your age, and have no quarrel with people who continue not to. In fact, I was a bit equivocal when my first kid was on the way. And of course the possibility of handicaps and all that sort of stuff occurred. It all changed when the kids came. One's outlook really can change quite a bit. I didn't just love them. I liked them. I found myself liking the idea of them, and of being a parent. It was a sort of existential leap. I must confess that now that they're all grown up (and a good batch of kids by my estimation) I am in no particular hurry ever to see grandkids. I think I've evolved back to pre-parenting mode.

Of course the possibility of disabilities and the added responsibility, etc. is a factor, but I would not weight it too much if you have other reasons to think having kids is a good idea. Even parents of severely disabled kids often find that the adaptation is not as hard as they thought, and that they're still worth it. Of course we can put some of that down to denial and "making lemonade," but some of it is quite real.

With all that said, I have always considered that if a person says "I don't want kids, period! " this should be considered a closed issue. Aside from issues of simple minding one's own business and valuing people for themselves instead of for our expectations, we should honor the self-evaluation of those who opt out.

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

Oh, well **** it. I guess everything you've all said means I should stop not wanting kids especially since I'm the nice, mature age of 30! Time to go rip out my IUS!

Maybe I should be a bit more direct here: I don't like babies. I am not comfortable with them. I don't want them. I don't want to be worrying every second of the day if I'm going to **** up and kill or injure my baby. I don't want to be standing there frustrated because my baby won't stop crying and nothing I do is calming it.

I don't want babies. Stop trying to convince me otherwise.

I haven't seen anyone here try to convince you to have a baby. Plenty of people don't want to have kids, for a variety of reasons. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

But this is a skeptic board, after all, and if you make a statement that some of us know is not quite correct, we are going to chime in. It's just the nature of the board, as I'm sure you know. That doesn't mean anyone is trying to convince you to have kids. As a general rule, I tend to avoid giving complete strangers unsolicited advice on their lives.

[Dunstan]

Also, you freaking have no freaking idea what love is until you have a kid.

This, by the way, is the kind of statement that really pisses many of us non-parents off. Maybe you didn't know what love was. Don't try to speak for the rest of us.

Plus, there is the fact that blood is thicker than water. Your parents are direct blood relatives. But they are not going to be around forever. Your brother and sister are blood relatives but they are kind of off-shoots. Your kid is a direct blood relative.

What does that really mean? (Factually, you're wrong. The genetic relationship between you and your child is, on average, no closer than your relationship with your sibling.)

Would you not be able to love an adopted child? Would you tell parents who adopt that they have no idea what love is until they have a biological child?

[Hamradioguy]

Unlikely at this point in my life. (Although I'm still not as old as Charlie Chaplin when he was fathering kids.) When I was in my 20s and dating a lot my Mom got into "potential grandmother mode" and often asked, "Wouldn't you like to have little versions of you running around?". Now while I was always pretty much comfortable with who I am, the thought of little versions of me running around was rather horrifying at the time.

Later on I had a relationship with a lady who had two teen aged sons. "Instant kids" without dealing with diapers and 2AM bottles, but teenagers from another marriage bring their own issues to bear.

Now I find when I see some really attractive and smart young woman I sometimes think, "Wow. Please have my baby." Fortunately such a fantasy is a fleeting thought. None of those types would want a daddy figure, or if they do then they have other problems. And I'm way too old for those diaper and bottle issues. Still, those biological urges that keep the human race going are sometimes hard to shake.

[Björn Toulouse]

Live long and die out.

VHEMT (http://www.vhemt.org/)

[pgwenthold]

This, by the way, is the kind of statement that really pisses many of us non-parents off. Maybe you didn't know what love was. Don't try to speak for the rest of us.


I won't claim anything about "real love," but I will say that I concur completely with Bill that the love I have for my child is completely non-comparable to any other I have felt, including the love for my wife (of 16 years before we had a child). This is a very different love, completely undescribable and, before he was born, unimaginable.

I got choked up earlier this evening when I saw him in a striped shirt and a brown pair of bibs. You can ask why that should get me choked up? The answer is, it's a parent thing. He was so adorable in that outfit, that it made me cry. That is how much I love him.

[Roma]

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.



The problem with planning a life is that things happen that you have no control over.

No 21 year-old that I know of plans to have a disabled child that they will have to look after forever, but perfectly healthy children can become severely disabled just by falling in a playground.
Perfectly healthy husbands or wives can become permanently and severely disabled in a car accident so you better not get married either.
And what if you were the one to get severely disabled or maybe burned in a fire or sick?

My advise to you, worthless as it may be, is just to love with all your heart and not worry so much about things that you have no control over.

[Shadowdweller]

I find myself increasingly interested in having children as I've grown older. Partly as a result of feeling increasingly emotionally and financially confident. Partly due to a desire for slave labor in my dotage. Partly because kids are cute (at least in the early years). But mostly in a sort of Mad Scientist desire to unleash unholy terror upon an unsuspecting world.

[Beth]

I don't really intend to get married but that doesn't mean I wouldn't face that issue.

I have no doubt that raising children is a joy in some respects, but again I wouldn't have kids at the risk of having a child I'd have to care for for the rest of my life.

My point is that your fear regarding caring for others is simply part and parcel of loving and living with someone else. You can either face it and deal with it or avoid loving anyone enough to care for them if and when they need it. Your choice.


But let me tell you this, in case it ever happens to you, the first year is work but, after that, it is tons of fun. I think the first year is fabulous!
Also, you freaking have no freaking idea what love is until you have a kid.

This, by the way, is the kind of statement that really pisses many of us non-parents off. Maybe you didn't know what love was. Don't try to speak for the rest of us.

Having a child is truly a life-changing experience. You can try to imagine it - all prospective parents do - but you don't - can't - understand it until you have experienced it. I never knew how much my parents loved me until I had my first child. I couldn't, because until then I had never experienced having such love for another human being.

[pgwenthold]

Having a child is truly a life-changing experience. You can try to imagine it - all prospective parents do - but you don't - can't - understand it until you have experienced it. I never knew how much my parents loved me until I had my first child. I couldn't, because until then I had never experienced having such love for another human being.

When we were expecting, we kept hearing how "it is going to change your life." To the point where I got tired of hearing it.

Not because I disagreed with it, but because I knew that no matter how much they told me it, I couldn't comprehend it. And that's what I tell expecting couples now: everyone will tell you that your life is going to change, but don't worry about it. You can't imagine what that means until you are there.

I lived 40 happy years without any kids, so it's not like my life has always been all about babies and kids. I've been there with the "childless couples," and probably spent more time childless than most of the childless people on this board. So I know what it's like to be childless in our society through your natural childbearing years (and married the whole time). Given that, I can say, until you are there, you can't comprehend how having a child changes your life.

[Dunstan]

I won't claim anything about "real love," but I will say that I concur completely with Bill that the love I have for my child is completely non-comparable to any other I have felt, including the love for my wife (of 16 years before we had a child). This is a very different love, completely undescribable and, before he was born, unimaginable.

I got choked up earlier this evening when I saw him in a striped shirt and a brown pair of bibs. You can ask why that should get me choked up? The answer is, it's a parent thing. He was so adorable in that outfit, that it made me cry. That is how much I love him.

And that's great -- for you. I mean that sincerely, without any snideness. I'm glad you feel that way. People who have children should feel that way about them.

That doesn't mean that everyone who has children will feel that way.

I'm glad things worked out for you. I just don't want to hear people extrapolating from their experience to claim some universal human principle that must apply to me.

Honestly, all of the folks saying "I used to think like you did, and then I had kids..." remind me of the Christians who insist "I used to be an atheist, and then I opened my heart to Jesus..." There are, admittedly, some differences, but they cut both ways: the existence of children is not in doubt, but on the other hand, one can de-convert after being "born again," while you can't undo children.

And even if I accept your principle, where does it end? If I'm going to love my first child, does that mean I should have a second? A third? A tenth? At some point, people have to say, "you know, I probably would love child X + 1, but I just don't think it's the right decision for me. I'm happy with X children." It's just that for some of us, X = 0.

[JAStewart]

My point is that your fear regarding caring for others is simply part and parcel of loving and living with someone else. You can either face it and deal with it or avoid loving anyone enough to care for them if and when they need it. Your choice.
I have no qualms caring for a partner (no need to get married for this either) at all. I can still care and love a human without it having been fired out by my partner/wife/etc.

With a seeming increase in the quantity of children born with some life-afflicting disability, the prospect of 24-hour care that I'd have to do or pay to have is terrifying.

[Damien Evans]

I'm not planning on it, mainly because of the chance of my passing on my Aspergers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#Causes

[Beth]

I have no qualms caring for a partner (no need to get married for this either) at all. I can still care and love a human without it having been fired out by my partner/wife/etc. Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

With a seeming increase in the quantity of children born with some life-afflicting disability, the prospect of 24-hour care that I'd have to do or pay to have is terrifying.

This is the part I don't understand. Why are you so worried about this scenario in one situation (being a parent) but not another (having a spouse/partner)?

I don't mean to imply that you should want a child. If you don't want a child for any reason, then by all means, don't have one. Not wanting the responsibility of raising a child is a sufficient reason not to have one. What puzzles me is that your stated reason for not wanting to have a child seems inconsistent and irrational to me. You acknowledge that the same scenario could occur with a spouse, but that doesn't make you want to avoid marriage/partnership with another person. Why does that possibility affect whether or not you want to have a child?

[Beth]

I'm glad things worked out for you. I just don't want to hear people extrapolating from their experience to claim some universal human principle that must apply to me. Who is making that claim? Who is saying it must apply to you. I just read people saying they once felt the same but later, they changed and felt differently. To me, they are just suggesting that perhaps, someone in their twenties may not realize how much or in what ways they will change over the course of the next decade or two. A reasonable point.

Honestly, all of the folks saying "I used to think like you did, and then I had kids..." remind me of the Christians who insist "I used to be an atheist, and then I opened my heart to Jesus..." And what is the problem with this? Do you not believe that they were once atheists? Does saying that somehow imply they are trying to convert you to their way of thinking?

You know, just because people post they have changed over time doesn't mean they expect you to to change to be like them or that you must inevitably do so.


And even if I accept your principle, where does it end? If I'm going to love my first child, does that mean I should have a second? A third? A tenth? At some point, people have to say, "you know, I probably would love child X + 1, but I just don't think it's the right decision for me. I'm happy with X children." It's just that for some of us, X = 0.

Sure, some people never want children and never have them and are happy that way. Some people didn't want children when they were your age and later changed their minds and are happy they did. What's the issue here for you? Why does it bother you when people say they once thought as you did but now they feel differently?

[Soapy Sam]

Did you actually look that up in a Lallans bible?

:confused: Jocky Wilson kind of dates it, don't you think? :confused:

Rolfe.

Well, he dates me!

No, didn't look it up. Bob Craig's Latin "O" level class was a hard school.
I think I've seen the lines somewhere before though.

ETA- And it is a rather free translation!

[JAStewart]

This is the part I don't understand. Why are you so worried about this scenario in one situation (being a parent) but not another (having a spouse/partner)?

I don't mean to imply that you should want a child. If you don't want a child for any reason, then by all means, don't have one. Not wanting the responsibility of raising a child is a sufficient reason not to have one. What puzzles me is that your stated reason for not wanting to have a child seems inconsistent and irrational to me. You acknowledge that the same scenario could occur with a spouse, but that doesn't make you want to avoid marriage/partnership with another person. Why does that possibility affect whether or not you want to have a child?
I guess that if my wife or whatever developed such symptoms they'd only be living with it for another 30, 40 years, as opposed to a having a disabled child who might need help until they are 70, 80 etc.

[Beth]

I guess that if my wife or whatever developed such symptoms they'd only be living with it for another 30, 40 years, as opposed to a having a disabled child who might need help until they are 70, 80 etc.

Okay. To me, either way, you're basically looking at for the rest of your life. But if it makes a difference to you, that's what matters.

[JAStewart]

I have no doubt I probably will fall into the trap of having children at some point. Its interesting that not many people have said that what is my main concern is theirs too.. It could be cause my mom works with special needs kids and so if I'm visiting her at work I see it a lot and it brings me down.

[Dunstan]

Who is making that claim? Who is saying it must apply to you.

These people, for example:

Your priorities change greatly once you have been graduated a few years. You realize partying and having freedom isn't everything. Just wait.

When it happens and if it happens, it changes you. It changes you in ways you cannot imagine now.
[snip]
Also, you freaking have no freaking idea what love is until you have a kid. Oh, sure, you might have a girlfriend and say all the "I love you"'s and all and you might think of her night and day and when you are with her you feel complete and blah blah blah blah. That isn't ANYthing compared to the dormant neurons that are triggered when you have a kid. You have no idea.

[pgwenthold]

And what is the problem with this? Do you not believe that they were once atheists? Does saying that somehow imply they are trying to convert you to their way of thinking?

To be fair, Beth, when some christian claims they "used to be an atheist," no, I don't usually believe it to be true.

But this is where I get confused. Being childless is not a state of mind, or belief, or lack of it. When I say I was childless, that is a fact. We don't have debates on what it means to be childless. Thefore, when I say, "I know what it is like to not have children," we aren't talking about fuzzy degrees. As I have said, I was childless for a heck of a lot longer than most of the childless people posting on this thread. Moreover, I was in a childless marriage for a good chunk of that time. So when I say, "I know what it is like to be childless," it's true. It wasn't just a "childless state of mind," it was a state of being.

In fact, everyone with kids has been childless. Admittedly, some were parents sooner than others, we've all been there. So we know what it's like to not have a child.

OTOH, those without children can't comprehend what it is like to have them, by defintion. You can probably come close if you were for example acting as a parent as an older sibling or something, but for the most part, no, you don't have a clue about what it means. That's not a criticism, it is the nature of it. Until you have children of your own, you can't imagine it really. In that case, listen to parents when they talk about it. When we say, "It is a love like you've never experienced," we are talking from our experience. And when everyone is saying it, instead of saying, "I'm not like you," maybe take it as a hint that it actually IS different?

And to emphasize, that's not a value judgement. I don't blame the childless for not understanding what parental love is like. However, I do have a problem when they insist that they've experienced something similar.

[Terry]

I don't want babies. Stop trying to convince me otherwise.

I think it is possible to point out exagerations or factual inaccuracies with your characterization of the physical properties of babies without being "trying to convince you" to have them.

ETA: Everyone, if you don't want babies, don't have them. And don't leave that to chance, either.

[Dave Rogers]

Well, the chances are small and with advanced medical technology, you'd know in advance.

Both of these statements are debatable. The chances of having a child with a disability are, to the best of my knowledge, something like a couple of per cent, which is big enough to be a concern for some. As for knowing in advance, there's at least one group of disabilities affecting very large numbers of people, that are not detectable either pre-natally or indeed perinatally; specifically:

I'm not planning on it, mainly because of the chance of my passing on my Aspergers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#Causes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#Causes)

and other autistic spectrum disorders.

I have four children, and they're four of the nicest people I've ever known. One of them has autism, and I may be looking after him to some extent for the rest of my life, although the arrangement may well become rather more reciprocal in time. For me, having those children was the right choice, I have no doubt; but everyone's different, and nobody should be pressured into having children if they really don't want to.

Dave

[Francesca R]

I don't want babies. Stop trying to convince me otherwise.C'mon, you know you do really. Just wait . . .

qS7nqwGt4-I

[billydkid]

My son is the best thing that ever happened to me. The procreant urge is hardwired into us and it has many facets. Most people do have kids and they have them because they want to have kids. It's a natural thing. Most people who have kids do not do so based on a cost benefit analysis. Nothing wrong with not wanting to have kids, but I don't think you need to rationalize either way.

[Beth]

These people, for example:


Fair 'nuff.

[JAStewart]

Also, you freaking have no freaking idea what love is until you have a kid. Oh, sure, you might have a girlfriend and say all the "I love you"'s and all and you might think of her night and day and when you are with her you feel complete and blah blah blah blah. That isn't ANYthing compared to the dormant neurons that are triggered when you have a kid. You have no idea.
Someone could suggest the exact same proposition to you but about homosexual love. How do you know how love is ranked to others?

I'm pretty sure that LSD is 'wackier' than anything else I've ever seen/done/tried, but do I want to risk trying it? Not really.

[Starthinker]

I don't want babies. Stop trying to convince me otherwise.

Oh, com'on. Please! Paaaaaauuuhhhhleeeeezzzeeee? My friend Jeremy's mom wants babies. Nnnnaaggghhhhhhh. Please? Please? Pleasepleasepleaseplease? Waaaahhhhhh wahhhhhhwwwwaahhhh. I hate you! I hate you forever!!!1!!!1!11one!!one1 Aaawww, I didn't mean it. Puuuhhhleeezzzeeee!! Come on. Aaaaahhhhggggnnnnnaasssnnashghe.



(Is this why you don't want kids?)

[Jorghnassen]

Wait until your friends (assuming you have some) start getting married and having babies. Then tell me how you and your partner (assuming you have one) handle peer pressure and biological urges...

[bruto]

When it happens and if it happens, it changes you. It changes you in ways you cannot imagine now.

In fact, I think that even if you try, you will not be able to.

But let me tell you this, in case it ever happens to you, the first year is work but, after that, it is tons of fun.

Also, you freaking have no freaking idea what love is until you have a kid. Oh, sure, you might have a girlfriend and say all the "I love you"'s and all and you might think of her night and day and when you are with her you feel complete and blah blah blah blah. That isn't ANYthing compared to the dormant neurons that are triggered when you have a kid. You have no idea.

Plus, there is the fact that blood is thicker than water. Your parents are direct blood relatives. But they are not going to be around forever. Your brother and sister are blood relatives but they are kind of off-shoots. Your kid is a direct blood relative. Noone is really going to love you more than your baby. And you are never really going to love anyone as much as your kid. Oh, sure, you can buy a puppy. Now, just imagine if that puppy that is overjoyed to see you when you come home is a miniture person.

I was once like you. I had no idea why anyone would WANT to have a kid. But now that I have one, I understand.All that is quite true of people who are willing, able, fit and suited to be parents, but the world is also pretty full of kids who are neglected, exploited, abused, unloved and worse. It seems somewhat intuitive that the best way to avoid unwanted children is to respect those who do not want them.

The world is also full of stepkids and adopted kids and foster kids who are loved as much as any natural children despite the lack of "blood" relation.

Sorry, but although I love my own kids and my stepkid greatly, and as soon as the first one was born I shifted my priorities of love forever, and would jump into a pit of fire for any one of them, I do not think this makes your argument universal, and I find the comparison to puppies pretty damn pathetic too.

Of course I also have an ulterior motive for this. I want all you young folks out there to stop having babies so there is more of the world left for my demon spawn to inherit.

[Delscottio]

This strikes a chord with me, I was terrified of having kids specifically for the fear of having a disabled child, I know this sounds terrible but I was scared not just that I wouldn't cope, but would I bond with the child?

Anyway I reach 30 and my partner delivers the good news, strangely enough when I found out I was to be a dad it didn't matter - we refused the downs tests etc as it didn't matter what the outcome was. (we weren't in any high risk groups to be fair)

My son was born in 2007 healthy and is now a right handful and for me is the best thing thats ever happened, I can't put it into words how I feel about him.


The moral, people change and adapt to given situations. If it happens you'll change if it does, well it doesn't. Thats about it really.

[Soapy Sam]

Wait until your friends (assuming you have some) start getting married and having babies. Then tell me how you and your partner (assuming you have one) handle peer pressure and biological urges...

One good way is taking long, expensive holidays and buying flashy toys your child-rearing friends can't afford.

[oldhat]

This strikes a chord with me, I was terrified of having kids specifically for the fear of having a disabled child, I know this sounds terrible but I was scared not just that I wouldn't cope, but would I bond with the child?

This scares me too. I don't have kids yet.

[LostAngeles]

I think it is possible to point out exagerations or factual inaccuracies with your characterization of the physical properties of babies without being "trying to convince you" to have them.

ETA: Everyone, if you don't want babies, don't have them. And don't leave that to chance, either.

Because putting your kid down to sleep wrong can kill them is totally an exaggeration or factually inaccurate. (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/safe_sleep_gen.cfm)

And you've never heard a hundred times about how you have to support the infant's neck when you hold it? Hold it like this, watch out for that, don't do this...

Sure, there's way more to SIDS than just the sleeping position, but how is it an exaggeration to point out that it's really easy to hurt/kill something that is incapable of being responsible for itself and not wanting that responsibility?

[Bill Thompson]

What does that really mean? (Factually, you're wrong. The genetic relationship between you and your child is, on average, no closer than your relationship with your sibling.)


Nah Uh! Even in twins one twin can favor one parent in some traits and the other twin can favor the other parent in the same traits. I have a brother that looks just like cousins on one side of the family and I look just like cousins on the other side.

And "Factually...wrong" is redundant.


This, by the way, is the kind of statement that really pisses many of us non-parents off. Maybe you didn't know what love was. Don't try to speak for the rest of us.



I made no such claim. I was addressing the original post. If he has no idea why anyone would want a kid, he would have no idea.

[Bill Thompson]

What does that really mean? (Factually, you're wrong. The genetic relationship between you and your child is, on average, no closer than your relationship with your sibling.)


Nah Uh! Even in twins one twin can favor one parent in some traits and the other twin can favor the other parent in the same traits. I have a brother that looks just like cousins on one side of the family and I look just like cousins on the other side.

[Bill Thompson]

All that is quite true of people who are willing, able, fit and suited to be parents, but the world is also pretty full of kids who are neglected, exploited, abused, unloved and worse. It seems somewhat intuitive that the best way to avoid unwanted children is to respect those who do not want them.

The world is also full of stepkids and adopted kids and foster kids who are loved as much as any natural children despite the lack of "blood" relation.

Sorry, but although I love my own kids and my stepkid greatly, and as soon as the first one was born I shifted my priorities of love forever, and would jump into a pit of fire for any one of them, I do not think this makes your argument universal, and I find the comparison to puppies pretty damn pathetic too.

Of course I also have an ulterior motive for this. I want all you young folks out there to stop having babies so there is more of the world left for my demon spawn to inherit.

Don't you think we should encourage those who do not want kids to have them so that our penal system employees still have jobs?

OK, bad joke.

I was addressing someone who was on the fense and just didn't see the point to having kids rather than someone who was violently opposed to having kids and thus would beat the kid or abandon the child.

[bookitty]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

I never wanted children, ever. During my prime breeding years people would give me a knowing smile and say "Wait until you're older." As I got into my 30's, they went on and on about my biological clock. (Supposedly the ticking gets louder...) Now, in my mid 40's, they gleefully tell me about some woman in Wheretheheckistan who had her first child at 62.

When does it end?

I do not want kids. I am completely lacking in maternal drive. But for some odd reason, people find that challenging and think it is open to debate.

[desertgal]

As a 21 year old student, the prospect of having kids to me is pretty horrible. As a student, I have so much freedom and such that a kid would be a bad thing for me.

But my freedom isn't why I don't think I'll have children.

I have no interest in having a child which I have to look after in some form for the rest of their life (besides the usual), be it by disability or such. I don't want a perfect child by any stretch of the imagination, I just don't want to have a disabled child.

To those who had kids: Did this cross your mind?
To those who don't: Does this worry you too?

...going to hell for this...

For what it is worth, as the parent of a severely disabled child who will always be dependent, I hear ya. Now, I wouldn't trade my boy for all the freedom in the world, but I'm speaking as someone on the other side of the fence-I already have the responsibility, and I know the love I have for him is fierce and unequivocal-but I can definitely understand why someone would be unwilling to undertake this kind of responsibility. It's not easy, and I would be less than honest if I didn't say that there are days that parents like myself want out of it. We don't bail-at least, I personally don't, although there are parents who do-but that doesn't mean there aren't times when we want to.

Personally, I respect your honesty about it.

[Dunstan]

Nah Uh! Even in twins one twin can favor one parent in some traits and the other twin can favor the other parent in the same traits. I have a brother that looks just like cousins on one side of the family and I look just like cousins on the other side.

Which is why I said "on average." Your child will get exactly one-half of your genes. Your siblings have, on average, one-half of the same genes you do, but any particular sibling could have more or less.

And "Factually...wrong" is redundant.

I disagree. One can be "wrong" in a normative sense. Since there's been plenty of discussion in this thread of the moral aspects of having or not having children, I was trying to make clear what I was criticizing.

I made no such claim. I was addressing the original post. If he has no idea why anyone would want a kid, he would have no idea.

It didn't read that way to me, so I thank you for the clarification.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Surely every child deserves to be a wanted child? And from society's perspective this is mostly the best too.

If you don't want children, don't have them. If you feel the pressure of a few hundred-million years of evolution, then why not go ahead. Balance the costs and benefits and accept the chances of things not working out.

I've had two. A girl and a boy; now both young adults. I'm glad I did. The World is a better place for both of them.
:mrocks

[Riayn]

I have no desire whatsoever to have my own biological children. Never had the desire to be pregnant nor pass along my genes.

However, I still haven't completely ruled out being a foster/adoptive parent. At this time in my life, it is not something I want to do, but as I become older, who knows.

[desertgal]

I never wanted children, ever. During my prime breeding years people would give me a knowing smile and say "Wait until you're older." As I got into my 30's, they went on and on about my biological clock. (Supposedly the ticking gets louder...) Now, in my mid 40's, they gleefully tell me about some woman in Wheretheheckistan who had her first child at 62.

When does it end?

I do not want kids. I am completely lacking in maternal drive. But for some odd reason, people find that challenging and think it is open to debate.

I have a friend who feels much the same as you, and, over the years, I've watched the way various people have reacted to her choice. The ones who would get under my skin are the ones who behave as if her lack of maternal drive is a major character flaw. They react with the same sympathetic pity that they would probably show if she had walked up and announced that she had overcome heroin addiction. Irritating.

[Blackadder]

I won't ever have children.

Part of this is me realizing that I am barely able to organize my own life, I don't think I am the right kind of person to take up responsibility for new life.

Part of this is me realizing the world is full enough and having more children doesn't help

Oh and having lot's of leisure time is nice as well. but it's not the main reason, if I was the kind of person that really wanted children and thought I would be a good parent, then I would happily give up that. I really like children.

[Blackadder]

JA, does it ever occur to you that someone had and raised YOU? ;)

Yeah, it's a simple fact, like the tree in my back garden was once a little seed. One doesn't have any influence on one's conception, one doesn't ask for it. It just happens. One day some 30 years ago one egg and sperm combined and became me.

My parents love me and I love them, but that is because we are human beings and lived together for a long time. A new born baby doesn't know love, although a new mother of course does feel love for the newborn.

[aviolet4u]

I won't ever have children.

Part of this is me realizing that I am barely able to organize my own life, I don't think I am the right kind of person to take up responsibility for new life.

Part of this is me realizing the world is full enough and having more children doesn't help

Oh and having lot's of leisure time is nice as well. but it's not the main reason, if I was the kind of person that really wanted children and thought I would be a good parent, then I would happily give up that. I really like children.

I feel the exact way! To be honest I'm quite sensitive and anti social to start off with and you really need to be outoging, strong and motivating to help raise a healthy child. I don't want to raise a child like my mother raised us. That definitely helped me become the fearful sensitive person that I am. But my biggest enemy seems to be my immediate family who ONLY want me to marry and have kids right now. If I move away I'll just be shunned even more so really its so stupid and unnecessary all the negativity stemming out of traditional duties apparently. :boggled: I had more respect as a child. I feel I was more carefree, no one cared if I ran around all day in the backyard or what I wore etc. They'd just be all "oh how cuuuute" and squeeze my cheeks.

I look at my little cousins and feel bad about them facing the "real world" later because the fantasy one was so much better.;) Thats also a fear of mine to go through all the critical emotional steps of my children growing up- huge responsibility.

I think you have to be above all more fearless as a parent.

[noblecaboose]

As a person on the cusp of being a parent (20 days and counting down!), I would like to weigh in with my $0.02.

At age 21 (and until I was about 26) I was certain that I was not going to have children.
Yes, one of the main concerns was that I'd have a child with a disability.
Another fear I had was the physical changes caused by pregnancy and childbirth.
Yet another was that I felt incapable of caring for anyone other than myself.
I also felt that bringing a child into the world would be irresponsible and stupid, given the state of the world.
Then, there was this weird fear of letting a person grow inside me only to release it into the world where it can get hurt, or worse turn against me and hate me.
Lastly, of course the fear that I'd be a terrible parent, since I felt like I hadn't yet grown up myself.

Gradually, these problems were addressed.
I spent time my cousin's children and they are great examples of how awesome kids can be when they have the right parents.
I got a cat and experienced what it is to really care for something that is totally dependent on you (I realise this is not really true about cats, but this was when she was a kitten and became ill).
I met someone whom I trusted completely and who loved and supported me enough to make me feel capable of anything, and who I knew would be a good parent.
And, well, I found out that I couldn't apply for Australian citizenship for another three years and figured it would be a good way to fill the time. :P
As it turns out I'm built for baby making. I've been told by several people (my husband included) that pregnancy really suits me. I'm one of those glowing pregnant women rather than the bloated, nauseated ones. I see this as a good sign.

After becoming pregnant I had to face the issue at hand.
What would I do if I lose this roll of the dice and my child is born with a disability? Sure, the tests so far have been negative, but I grew up knowing several people with disabilities that appeared later in life. Hell, I even knew a lady who became severely retarded at age 6 when she ate a whole bottle of aspirin. Yes, the idea still scares me, but the risk is very low. It's low enough that it didn't prevent me from taking it. At this point in my life, the possibility of benefits outweighs the risk.

When I used to say I would never have kids, everyone, EVERYONE told me "Oh, well, never say never!""You'll feel different when you're closer to 30!" And it used to drive me up the wall. Now that I'm pregnant, it's like all I hear is "Well, enjoy the free time while you have it!" "Say goodbye to your old life" "Sleep while you can! You'll never sleep again" And such. Like I didn't spend the last 10 years avoiding this! I'm 28! I've enjoyed my freedom. I loved it. I said goodbye to my old life with a smile on my face. And I sleep plenty, thank you.
When you're ready, then you're ready. When you aren't, you aren't. And if you are never ready and you never have kids then fine! Enjoy your life and the choices you make. Just don't avoid taking the dive out of fear of the unknown. You can never control all the variables and you can never eliminate the risk completely, so weigh the odds realistically.

[Rairun]

I don't have anything against people who want to have children, nor against those who didn't want children but then changed their minds, but I find the whole "oh, you're young, just wait and see" attitude a little disturbing.

[ksbluesfan]

I fully support your decision to not have children. I wish more people would make a better effort to avoid an unwanted pregnancy.

Being a parent is difficult, but rewarding. I love it and couldn't imagine life without kids, but it's not for everyone. Some people just shouldn't be parents.

I agree with Bob Parks on overpopulation. We may have crossed the limit of the number of people our planet can support long term. I'd love to see a worldwide campaign to slow population growth.

[pgwenthold]

I don't have anything against people who want to have children, nor against those who didn't want children but then changed their minds, but I find the whole "oh, you're young, just wait and see" attitude a little disturbing.

I disagree.

I don't think it is a stretch or wrong to say that, a reasonably large fraction of the people who say they will never want children when they are 20 ultimately change their mind and either have them, or want them by the time they are 40.

To be fair, I'm sure it works the other way, too, with those who thought they wanted kids when they were 20 changed their mind, either before having them or after (effectively regretting their decision).

It's not an issue of character flaw, it's just the fact that probably most people think differently when they are older than they did when they were 20. In fact, I sure as hell hope so. Having kids is just one of the things they can change their mind about.

[Mira]

When I was 21, the thought of kids was down right scary and I never thought that would change. However 10 years later, my biological time bomb began to tick. I want one now. But I have a fear of giving birth to something defective. So I will go through all the necessary tests to make sure that what I'll be pushing out will be able to live on it's own and functional. I'll get rid of it if it is defective. I realize this may sound cruel, but I believe that it's only a growth until it breathes on it's own; once it's separate from me, then it's a child.

A child deserves to be born to people who want it. I don't want something defective.

[noblecaboose]

I disagree.

I don't think it is a stretch or wrong to say that, a reasonably large fraction of the people who say they will never want children when they are 20 ultimately change their mind and either have them, or want them by the time they are 40.

To be fair, I'm sure it works the other way, too, with those who thought they wanted kids when they were 20 changed their mind, either before having them or after (effectively regretting their decision).

It's not an issue of character flaw, it's just the fact that probably most people think differently when they are older than they did when they were 20. In fact, I sure as hell hope so. Having kids is just one of the things they can change their mind about.

It is still dismissive and insulting to tell someone that their feelings are not valid because they might change.
It's the same way it's insulting to a rebellious teenager to say, "Oh, it's just a phase. You'll get over it." Or telling a woman that she's "just hormonal" when she's in a bad mood (what mood isn't hormonal, I ask you?).
The feelings one has in their twenties are no less valid than those they have later.

It may not be factually wrong to tell someone they're probably going to change their mind, but it's still annoying and belittling to dismiss their current point of view as simply immature.

An example of this insensitivity in the extreme:
My friend has some health problems related to her reproductive organs. She has seen several doctors and nobody has been able to figure out what's wrong with her. One doctor actually said, "It's all in your head. Get over it." (If you knew her symptoms, you would understand how awful this was.)
But the worst was:
"It might go away if you get pregnant."
"But I don't want to have children. Ever."
"Well, you never know. Most people say that, but you might feel differently in a few years."
"No, I'm sure I won't. The idea is completely foreign to me. Can't you just give me a hysterectomy?"
"Well, we can't do that, what if you decide you want children one day?"
"Not going to happen. Look, there's no guarantee that it will help me to get pregnant, but if I get a hysterectomy, this will all go away."
"Still, I can't do that. You might change your mind. After all, my wife and I..."
And so on, until she found another doctor.

[pgwenthold]

It is still dismissive and insulting to tell someone that their feelings are not valid because they might change.

It depends. In particular, it depends on why it even comes up.

I would agree if some parent came to a group of 21 year olds and asked, "Will you ever have kids?" and then, if they say no, to dismiss it with "just wait, you might change your mind."

But when a 21 year old creates or jumps into a public thread with an unprovoked announcement that they never want to have kids, responding with the factual statement is not any more insulting than the announcement in the first place.

I don't pry into people's parenting intentions. I don't ask when they are going to have kids, or if they are planning to, so if the subject comes up, it is because they brought it up. As such, it's not my responsibility to validate it.

[Lithrael]

When I was little I abstractly wanted kids (I was one of those kids who assumed Have 2 Kids and Be a Doctor was the default pitch you should go for) but the closer I got to being a grownup the clearer it was that I hadn't taken that idea any more seriously than the idea that maybe you'll find out you're a magic princess.

I'm in my early thirties now and have never wanted kids. Other people's kids are cute enough but I don't want to actually make one at all. It limits my dating prospects, because the most attractive unattached guys my age are starting to think seriously about starting the family they've always wanted, and I am so not on board for that. I suspect my no-baby mindset will be more of a benefit later on when I get to the age range where more divorcees who already have kids are looking for new partners.

[Rairun]

It depends. In particular, it depends on why it even comes up.

I would agree if some parent came to a group of 21 year olds and asked, "Will you ever have kids?" and then, if they say no, to dismiss it with "just wait, you might change your mind."

But when a 21 year old creates or jumps into a public thread with an unprovoked announcement that they never want to have kids, responding with the factual statement is not any more insulting than the announcement in the first place.

I don't pry into people's parenting intentions. I don't ask when they are going to have kids, or if they are planning to, so if the subject comes up, it is because they brought it up. As such, it's not my responsibility to validate it.

But why do you feel that validating people's intentions is something that even figures in this discussion? I really do think that your word choice here was unfortunate and quite a bit telling. I mean, the OP made an "unprovoked announcement"? Really? If I came here and said I didn't want to be a doctor, or that I'd decided I wanted to buy an apartment instead of a house, would you call it an unprovoked announcement that you have no obligation to validate?

I'm sure I don't want to have children, and I don't care what anyone thinks about it. If people dismiss my intentions, I'll just think I shouldn't bother with them. I don't need anyone's validation. But it's a little annoying how it's impossible to have a simple conversation about it due to the default assumption that I'm going to change my mind. Or worse: people actively want you to change your mind, because life could never be as fulfilling without children. Or even worse: people wish an unwanted pregnancy upon you (I've seen it happen) because they consider your choice an affront to the way they've chosen to live their own lives.

The OP didn't say, "I really want children, but I'm not sure I can deal with the responsibility." If that were the case, I think it would be okay for people to say that we often become more comfortable with it as we age. But the OP said something like this: "I think children would be kind of bad for me, but that's not the reason why I don't want any; I just hate the thought of giving birth to a person who would depend on me for the rest of their lives." Personally, I don't see a conflict here at all, unless you include people's expectations that you should have children. If you think having children would be bad for you, then it doesn't really matter whether you're comfortable with the idea of having a disabled one.

I just don't get why anyone would look at the OP knowingly and say, "you'll change your mind!" People are different, and they want different things. Anyone over 5 should know that. The most reasonable response is probably that there's absolutely no need to have children. If you find yourself wanting one later on, you'll have to decide if you can live with the possible consequences. It's not very likely that you'll have a disabled child, but I don't think it's something you should just ignore either. If you know you wouldn't be able to deal with it, then maybe it's better to adopt.

[enjoytheview]

I recently turned 19, still living with my parents, at uni full time and earning very little money. Right now I'm not in a situation financially or emotionally to have a kid, there's just too much living I want to do before all of that.

At this stage I'm not looking at having a child at any time during the next 6 years while I'm finishing with uni. After that's all done with, I'd like to have a couple of mini mes running about. The possiblity of having a child with a disability has crossed my mind, so I don't want to leave it too late to start having kids either.

[Eddie Dane]

My attitude used to be that having children or staying childless were both great.
No kids? You get a lifetime of freedom.
Kids? You get family life and later adult kids to socialise with (they don't stay babies for ever, you know).

Now I have two kids and I'll admit I miss my previous partying and travelling lifestyle.
But I get the odd evening out and realise that it is fun, but on the whole a pretty empty way to spend your life.

My advise: If you stay childless, use your freedom to do something exciting and interesting.

[Eddie Dane]

I recently turned 19, still living with my parents, at uni full time and earning very little money. Right now I'm not in a situation financially or emotionally to have a kid, there's just too much living I want to do before all of that.

At this stage I'm not looking at having a child at any time during the next 6 years while I'm finishing with uni. After that's all done with, I'd like to have a couple of mini mes running about. The possiblity of having a child with a disability has crossed my mind, so I don't want to leave it too late to start having kids either.

I partied like a maniac till I was 34, then we had our first.

But I was recently talking to my (very hot) female colleague. She's 19 and her dad is only a little older then me.
It made me realise that instead of having to little monkeys throwing food at me, I could now be having intelligent conversations with a beautiful adult daughter every evening.

In conclusion I think I could have better spent my twenties raising children then trying to work whilst coping with a hangover.

Mind you, that wasn't my perspective at the time.

[Marc39]

A child deserves to be born to people who want it. I don't want something defective.

Do not have children.

"Defects" often surface during the course of childhood and after. Adoration tarnscends mere defects.

[Dr. Keith]

For what it is worth, as the parent of a severely disabled child who will always be dependent, I hear ya. Now, I wouldn't trade my boy for all the freedom in the world, but I'm speaking as someone on the other side of the fence-I already have the responsibility, and I know the love I have for him is fierce and unequivocal-but I can definitely understand why someone would be unwilling to undertake this kind of responsibility. It's not easy, and I would be less than honest if I didn't say that there are days that parents like myself want out of it. We don't bail-at least, I personally don't, although there are parents who do-but that doesn't mean there aren't times when we want to.

Personally, I respect your honesty about it.

Well said.

I think the key is to be honest with yourself and your partner about what you want in life and what you don't. And then act on those honest statements. Don't have kids if you don't want them.

And since everyone is adding personal experience to the conversation, we had about four hours during my wife's first pregnancy when we thought a test had indicated Down's Syndrome.* I still look back at that day as the most stressful in our 15 years of marriage. I've been in the emergency room with my kids since then and nothing compares to the fear of that four hours when all of our plans, all of our dreams, and all of our hopes seemed to be falling apart. I'd like to think we would have been able to take up the task, but I still don't know if we could have.

All that being said, if your primary reason for not wanting to have kids is a fear of debilitating birth defects then I think you owe it to yourself to research that topic a bit more. I think they are rarer than you think and there are steps you can take to reduce that risk. If you find the risk intolerable you may consider adopting down the road, but by no means would I suggest you need a child to have a complete life.

*I'll save the rant about doctors misinterpreting statistical anomalies from research under the guise of "full disclosure avoids litigation" for another day. Suffice it to say that if we hadn't had a statistician and a medical doctor in our family to review the research that four hours could have been a lot longer.

[calebprime]

I didn't really want to have children, my wife did.

My instinct was to travel light--I had a little talent with x pounds of thrust, and I could only fly with no weight onboard.

My professional life, such as it was, took a direct hit when I had a child, and I wasn't a viable player, any more.

This caused me great distress, and I thought of suicide.

Then, I realized that even that was histrionic b.s.--I wanted to complain and have someone hand me my old life back.

Well, it wasn't coming back.

I was also afraid of the many people and situations that having a kid would open me up to. For example, I had no desire to relive my school days. No desire to try to be friends with the parents of my kid's friends.

Then, there is the shame I feel that I can't think of anything else to do besides still trying to be a composer--a shame that I only feel in relation to being a good father to my kid.

But. And this is my point.

The commitment I made to my kid has paid off, in a way. All that effort put in, and automatically, there's love.

It's as if love followed commitment and effort, instead of coming first.

And, there's joy in seeing someone grow up--it must be the opposite of caring for someone with Alzheimer's.

(My sympathy to Dogdoctor, for example.)

[JayJayJay]

Rairun, your response to pgwenthold was totally awesome. You said exactly what I wanted to say. Thank you.

Dr. Keith, great post. I cannot imagine what you went through.

calebprime, good post. Thank you for sharing your experience.

JAStewart, Hello. If you are thinking about not having kids, google "childfree." There are people out there who do not want children for various reasons. You might be childfree. Though I am 22 years old and people think that I am too young to know whether I want children or not, I know for sure that I do not want children and I know exactly WHY. It would be unfair for my children to have to deal with my personality. (Not that I have a "bad" personality. ^_^) I do not want to be a mother to anyone. And then there is the whole "birthing" thing. It is just not happening and I am okay with that. ^_^

You should ONLY have children if you know what having children entails (not just "kodak moments"), you want them, and you are mature enough to handle them. (This may sound controversial to some, but I also think you should be able to afford your children or you shouldn't have them) You should NOT have children because ANYONE expects you to, you are bored, you think it will "fix" your marriage (FACT: Children put stress on a marriage), you feel you will have regrets if you don't have them (i.e. that is the only reason), you want someone to take care of you when you are old, you want someone to carry on the family name, you want grandkids, you want an identical replica of you (NOT happening ^_^), you want someone to love you unconditionally, etc. This may seen shocking, but there ARE people who DO regret having children and it is probably because they had them for the wrong reasons. (There are studies you can find that show that some parents wouldn't have kids if they could turn back time)

Oh, and to answer your question (this is a GREAT concern, btw. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't), I do think about the possibility of having a disabled child. I don't think having a disabled child is that rare. Hell, 1 in 150 kids have autism and we have no idea what causes it. If you end up wanting to raise children in the future, you can do everything you can to try to have a healthy baby (eating healthy, exercise, genetic testing, having children in your late twenties or early thirties, etc.). And you don't HAVE to have a biological child. You can adopt or even be a foster parent. I won't be raising any kids, but I plan on becoming a social worker (and maybe working with kids) and being a mentor to kids. And if my brother has kids, I'll be a cool aunt! If you have a nurturing personality, you can get a pet, work with children as part of your occupation, be a god mother/aunt/whatever to your relatives' kids, and/or become a mentor. You have many options.

Oh, and whoever says that being childfree is lonely or boring or whatever is crazy. There is so much you can do (Someone mentioned partying and traveling, but, of course, you can do much more) and many childfree people have friends and family they hang out with. And something else to keep in mind: There are parents out there who are dealing with their adult children's (or grandchildren's) problems when they should be enjoying their lives and there are parents who rarely if ever receive visits or phone calls from their adult children, so having children is not a guarantee that you will be happy, either.

Bottomline, DO YOUR RESEARCH and do not be swayed by emotions. No one (not even your mom or dad) can tell you that having children or not having children is "worth it." You have to do what is right for you because YOU will be the one living your life. Whatever you do, good luck. :D Oh, and I will add: If you end up being childfree, yes, it WILL be hard to find a partner who is childfree like you, but it isn't impossible. A lot of my childfree friends are happily partnered. :D