First it was the WMD, then the Turkey, now the Capture

[a_unique_person]

Yep, it was a fake, according to these sources.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/21/1071941609659.html



Claims that US troops captured Saddam Hussein have been challenged by reports that he was discovered only after Kurdish forces had taken him prisoner.

The deposed president was drugged and abandoned ready for the American soldiers to recover him, a British tabloid newspaper reported yesterday.

Saddam came into the hands of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) after being betrayed by a member of the al-Jabour tribe, whose daughter had been raped by Saddam's son Uday, leading to a blood feud, reported the Sunday Express, quoting an unnamed senior British military intelligence officer.

Washington's claims that brilliant US intelligence work led to the capture of Saddam are also being challenged by reports sourced in Iraq's Kurdish language media that say its militia set up the circumstances in which the US merely had to go to a farm identified by the Kurds to bag the fugitive former president.

American forces took Saddam into custody about 8.30pm local time on the Saturday, but sat on the dramatic news until 3pm the next day. But early on Sunday, a Kurdish language wire service reported explicitly: "Saddam Hussein was captured by the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. A special intelligence unit led by Qusrat Rasul Ali, a high-ranking member of the PUK, found Saddam Hussein in the city of Tikrit, his birthplace. Qusrat's team was accompanied by a group of US soldiers. Details of the capture will emerge but the global Kurdish party is about to begin."



Ever get the feeling that your consent is being manufactured?

[BTox]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Ever get the feeling that your consent is being manufactured?

Ever get the feeling that some fools will believe any anti-American propaganda?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by BTox


Ever get the feeling that some fools will believe any anti-American propaganda?

Which particular one are you referring to? The WMD, the fake turkey, or the capture of Saddam? There is so much that has been shown to be lies from the current US administration, that I am inclined to believe anything that is contrary to what has been claimed.

I did note, however, that Saddams own daughter claimed he appeared to be drugged, in agreement with this story. I also wondered how he pulled the bricks over the hole he was in, and how he knew he should hide at that particular time. Maybe he was just trapped in there.

[WildCat]

Well if an "unnamed senior British military intelligence officer" as quoted by a British tabloid says so it must be true.
:rolleyes:

[WildCat]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I also wondered how he pulled the bricks over the hole he was in, and how he knew he should hide at that particular time. Maybe he was just trapped in there.
Let's use Occams Razor on this one. Either the people hiding him at their farm house did it, or there was a massive conspiracy involving many, many Kurds and other locals whose existence was only betrayed by an "unnamed senior British military intelligence officer". Uh-huh.

[a_unique_person]

Are you choosing to believe the guy with the fake turkey?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by WildCat

Let's use Occams Razor on this one. Either the people hiding him at their farm house did it, or there was a massive conspiracy involving many, many Kurds and other locals whose existence was only betrayed by an "unnamed senior British military intelligence officer". Uh-huh.

The Kurds weren't a part of the conspiracy, they had already claimed his capture.

[WildCat]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


The Kurds weren't a part of the conspiracy, they had already claimed his capture.
Sure, according to that famous "unnamed senior British military intelligence officer".

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by WildCat

Sure, according to that famous "unnamed senior British military intelligence officer".



Washington's claims that brilliant US intelligence work led to the capture of Saddam are also being challenged by reports sourced in Iraq's Kurdish language media that say its militia set up the circumstances in which the US merely had to go to a farm identified by the Kurds to bag the fugitive former president.

[BTox]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


There is so much that has been shown to be lies from the current US administration, that I am inclined to believe anything that is contrary to what has been claimed.

Of course you will believe anything contrary - that was our point.

[WildCat]

AUP, when you can provide a link from a credible source that has names, confirmation, etc. you will have a point. I won't hold my breath waiting.

[BTox]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

Washington's claims that brilliant US intelligence work led to the capture of Saddam are also being challenged by reports sourced in Iraq's Kurdish language media that say its militia set up the circumstances in which the US merely had to go to a farm identified by the Kurds to bag the fugitive former president


Claims from sources in the Iraq Kurdish media - yes, that proves it all right! :rolleyes:

[demon]

"First it was the WMD, then the Turkey, now the Capture"

Let`s not forget wonderwoman Jessica Lynch too. The twists and turns that piece of fantasy took puts it right up there with the rest of the ********.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by BTox


Claims from sources in the Iraq Kurdish media - yes, that proves it all right! :rolleyes:

You want me to believe the media that showed that picture of Dubya serving up a fake turkey? Or gave us that brilliant piece of fiction on Private Lynch?

[BTox]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


You want me to believe the media that showed that picture of Dubya serving up a fake turkey? Or gave us that brilliant piece of fiction on Private Lynch?

Yes, you're right - Bush wasn't really there for Thanksgiving - it was all a hoax, just like the moon landing...

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by BTox


Yes, you're right - Bush wasn't really there for Thanksgiving - it was all a hoax, just like the moon landing...

He was there all right, complete with a fake turkey for the happy snaps.

[BTox]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


He was there all right, complete with a fake turkey for the happy snaps.

So let me understand, so the lie was Bush was there but got to eat real turkey whilst the GIs had to eat fake turkey? Is that it?

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


He was there all right, complete with a fake turkey for the happy snaps.

Oh! Its the turkey that was made of plastic!!!

Damn, I always thought that Bush was the dummy.

[a_unique_person]

Another source.

http://www.sundayherald.com/38816

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by BTox


So let me understand, so the lie was Bush was there but got to eat real turkey whilst the GIs had to eat fake turkey? Is that it?

No.
The truth is that 'courageous' Bush zipped in and out of the place while holding up a plastic turkey for photo opps and pretending it was going to be fed to US soldiers.

[BTox]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


No.
The truth is that 'courageous' Bush zipped in and out of the place while holding up a plastic turkey for photo opps and pretending it was going to be fed to US soldiers.

Oh, so that's a lie. OK...:rolleyes:

[American]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Yep, it was a fake, according to these sources.

Ever get the feeling that your consent is being manufactured?


The freak show continues. I don't even have to pay these guys. Except the Geek, he gets $3 for every chicken head he bites off.

[BTox]

Originally posted by American



The freak show continues. I don't even have to pay these guys. Except the Geek, he gets $3 for every chicken head he bites off.

Which one is the geek? ;)

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by American



The freak show continues. I don't even have to pay these guys. Except the Geek, he gets $3 for every chicken head he bites off.

And your point is?

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by BTox


Oh, so that's a lie. OK...:rolleyes:

BTox, look at it this way. Imagine that you are the Commander-in-Chief. Your armed forces have done a pretty good job over in Iraq, and it's secure enough for you to visit them for Thanksgiving. You get there, talk to them for a while, then it's chow time. You notice that someone has provided a plastic turkey as a sort of centerpeice. You pick it up and start walking around with it.

Why?

[BTox]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


BTox, look at it this way. Imagine that you're the Commander-in-Chief Your armed forces have done a pretty good job over in Iraq, and it's secure enough for you to visit them for Thanksgiving. You get there, talk to them for a while, then it's chow time. You notice that someone has provided a plastic turkey as a sort of centerpeice. You pick it up and start walking around with it.

Why?

Sounds like a photo op to me, nothing more. But that's not the point. Where is the lie? That is the claim being made here.

[American]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

He was there all right, complete with a fake turkey for the happy snaps.


Yes it was a fake turkey. I have a fake tree in my living room, decorated with fake angels for a fake holiday. Did you ever get a fake plant in your hotel room? Did you call the desk and have an angry word with the manager about it?

Part of re-gaining the nation's trust is to NOT be a loser. Someone who believes British tabloids is a HUGE loser. If you really wanted political power back, you could have it. You don't really want it, you just love to complain and criticize while you contribute nothing to society, you just leech off of other's work to survive.

On the other hand, this circus can't survive without the exhibits. So leech away.

[Zero]

You know, if the government wouldn't lie so often, on so many issues, maybe we could more easily say that a report like this is just Kurdish nonsense...


...but since Bush has been actively lying since his debates against Gore, and has only picked up momentum since, anything that comes out of this administration is suspect.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by American



Yes it was a fake turkey. I have a fake tree in my living room, decorated with fake angels for a fake holiday. Did you ever get a fake plant in your hotel room? Did you call the desk and have an angry word with the manager about it?

Part of re-gaining the nation's trust is to NOT be a loser. Someone who believes British tabloids is a HUGE loser. If you really wanted political power back, you could have it. You don't really want it, you just love to complain and criticize while you contribute nothing to society, you just leech off of other's work to survive.

On the other hand, this circus can't survive without the exhibits. So leech away.

Part of regaining trust is to tell the truth, I would have thought. You can manufacture trust as Hitler did with lies, but it will unravel in the end.

You seem to know a lot about me. In what way am I a leech?

[BTox]

Originally posted by Zero
...but since Bush has been actively lying since his debates against Gore, and has only picked up momentum since, anything that comes out of this administration is suspect.


More lies from the "lie police". How ironic!

[shemp]

If we can go back to the original post, I think it's quite plausible, but I'll wait to buy my ticket until I see it in the more mainstream press, with a bit more evidence.

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by BTox


Sounds like a photo op to me, nothing more. But that's not the point. Where is the lie? That is the claim being made here.

Well, imagine that it's you in that situation. What are your motives for picking up the plastic turkey? Why do you carry it around? Wouldn't you feel weird? If you were having, say, a wine-and-cheese party at your house, would you carry a bowl of fake fruit around while talking to your guests?

Whether it's a filthy horrible lie or not isn't my problem with it. My problem is that it's just a weird goddamn thing to do, and I can't understand those motives. Can you?

[Zero]

Originally posted by BTox



More lies from the "lie police". How ironic! What? Bush is a liar, he lies about almost everything, so what do you want me to do, lie along with him and say that he has been honest?

Please, someone has to have a little integrity around here, and since you obviously aren't up to the task, I guess it falls to me.:D

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Well, imagine that it's you in that situation. What are your motives for picking up the plastic turkey? Why do you carry it around? Wouldn't you feel weird? If you were having, say, a wine-and-cheese party at your house, would you carry a bowl of fake fruit around while talking to your guests?

It was a real turkey, not plastic.

It was a decorative centerpiece. Haven't we already discussed this?

MattJ

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by shemp
If we can go back to the original post, I think it's quite plausible, but I'll wait to buy my ticket until I see it in the more mainstream press, with a bit more evidence.

I agree. I am also reminded that the reports on the capture described Saddam as disoriented and he looked quite dazed during the examination that was broadcast. This might be consistent with being drugged. However, it might also simply reflect how anyone might appear in similar circumstances. Too little evidence to judge at present.

[BTox]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Whether it's a filthy horrible lie or not isn't my problem with it. My problem is that it's just a weird goddamn thing to do, and I can't understand those motives. Can you?

Since I was not there, and I assume neither were you, we don't know exactly what happened and the circumstances surrounding it. Irregardless, I don't see either the wierdness or the lie.

[peptoabysmal]

Wow. This is starting to remind me of the tabloid stories about Charles & Di. If they skipped high tea, the next day the papers would read "Prince and princess of wales involved in crumpet fracas!".

[BTox]

Yep, expect a congressional investigation into "fake turkey-gate". ;)

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by BTox
Yep, expect a congressional investigation into "fake turkey-gate". ;)


They can call all these (http://timblair.spleenville.com/archives/005465.php) people as plastic turkey character witnesses.

[Jocko]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


The Kurds weren't a part of the conspiracy, they had already claimed his capture.

Lemme get this straight. The Kurds, who have been howling for Saddam's head for years, capture him. Then they spare his life and turn him over to the US, where they know he will face far more lenient treatment than they would provide, possibly to stand trial in an international court that has no death penalty.

Yeah, that sounds like something the Kurds would do.

Face it, if the Kurds ever got their hands on Saddam, we would never have found a single hair off his unwashed head. Ever. He'd be sleeping with the fishes, Kurd style.

[Jocko]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Wow. This is starting to remind me of the tabloid stories about Charles & Di. If they skipped high tea, the next day the papers would read "Prince and princess of wales involved in crumpet fracas!".

....Bloom County. Priceless!

[Jocko]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


BTox, look at it this way. Imagine that you are the Commander-in-Chief. Your armed forces have done a pretty good job over in Iraq, and it's secure enough for you to visit them for Thanksgiving. You get there, talk to them for a while, then it's chow time. You notice that someone has provided a plastic turkey as a sort of centerpeice. You pick it up and start walking around with it.

Why?

How's that any different than Clinton's laughter turning instantly into tears at Ron Brown's funeral when he realized the cameras were on him?

They're politicians. Get used to it. I would daresay that Clinton was a far superior politician to GWB (though it's no compliment), and even he got caught with the manufactured photo op. Bottom line.... so what, and who cares?

[WildCat]

Originally posted by Jocko


Lemme get this straight. The Kurds, who have been howling for Saddam's head for years, capture him. Then they spare his life and turn him over to the US, where they know he will face far more lenient treatment than they would provide, possibly to stand trial in an international court that has no death penalty.

Yeah, that sounds like something the Kurds would do.

Face it, if the Kurds ever got their hands on Saddam, we would never have found a single hair off his unwashed head. Ever. He'd be sleeping with the fishes, Kurd style.
Absolutely, they would keep just enough body parts (such as his head) to claim the $25 million. Funny they're not claiming that $25 million, isn't it?

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by WildCat

Absolutely, they would keep just enough body parts (such as his head) to claim the $25 million. Funny they're not claiming that $25 million, isn't it?

Not publicly.

We're secretly giving them 5 million plastic turkeys.

[WildCat]

My sister has a plastic Christmas tree in her house. Sent a card w/ the whole family posing in front of it. Only now do I realize what a no-good liar she is. I am outraged!



Seriously, it hasn't even been established that the turkey was fake, and I really don't see how it would matter if it was. This is nitpicking to the nth degree, get real folks!

[peptoabysmal]

The claim that the Kurds captured Saddam, drugged him and then handed him over to US troops is so laughable that it's not even worth discussing yet. The only stories I've seen on it are in the Aussie tabloids and India tabloids. I can't find the original story anywhere.

About the turkey: Where was Bush supposed to get a real, uncarved turkey? Unless things have changed a lot, mess hall Thanksgiving is pre-cooked, pre-sliced and warmed up to serve. Newsweek reported that Bush was carrying the turkey around and joking with the troops about it. That's what the pictures look like, too. What's wrong with that?

As long as we're quoting tabloid stories, how about this one?

Bagram GI: Troops Waited While Hillary Chowed Down (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/12/2/11616.shtml)

[Jocko]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
The claim that the Kurds captured Saddam, drugged him and then handed him over to US troops is so laughable that it's not even worth discussing yet. The only stories I've seen on it are in the Aussie tabloids and India tabloids. I can't find the original story anywhere.

About the turkey: Where was Bush supposed to get a real, uncarved turkey? Unless things have changed a lot, mess hall Thanksgiving is pre-cooked, pre-sliced and warmed up to serve. Newsweek reported that Bush was carrying the turkey around and joking with the troops about it. That's what the pictures look like, too. What's wrong with that?

As long as we're quoting tabloid stories, how about this one?

Bagram GI: Troops Waited While Hillary Chowed Down (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/12/2/11616.shtml)

I think it's safe to assume that Saddam's head on a pike would be worth far more than $25 million to the Kurds. Sounds like a classic case of Occam's Razor to me.

[Zero]

Let's be honest here: it IS a silly story. But, you never can really tell how much of whast gets reported is real, and how much is fiction(see the PVT Lynch situation for proof)

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Zero
Let's be honest here: it IS a silly story. But, you never can really tell how much of whast gets reported is real, and how much is fiction(see the PVT Lynch situation for proof)

Jessica Lynch captured Saddam? :eek:

[Zero]

Originally posted by Jocko


How's that any different than Clinton's laughter turning instantly into tears at Ron Brown's funeral when he realized the cameras were on him?The difference is that your story about Clinton is a lie.:D Wow, you guys do ALOT of lying around here...

[Zero]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


Jessica Lynch captured Saddam? :eek: No, she just fought off the entire Iraqi army after having been shot 17 times, or some such nonsense.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Zero
The difference is that your story about Clinton is a lie.:D Wow, you guys do ALOT of lying around here...


Everyone can judge for themselves (http://www.angelfire.com/darkside/czarchasm/autotear.avi).

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Zero
No, she just fought off the entire Iraqi army after having been shot 17 times, or some such nonsense.

Heh, I know. The whole PFC Lynch thing got blown way out of proportion. The question is who really did the blowing? Out of proportion, I mean. I remember it being something that the Washington Post embellished, not the White House. I'm getting to the point where I no longer read the story if the name has "Times" or "Post" in it.

[Zero]

Originally posted by aerocontrols



Everyone can judge for themselves (http://www.angelfire.com/darkside/czarchasm/autotear.avi). That doesn't mean anything at all...but if you are predisposed to that sort of thing, I suppose it would. I'll retract my statement, apologize, and call it a draw?

[crackmonkey]

I find it excruciatingly funny that someone on a skeptic's site would have the credulity to believe this tale. You do realize that Saddam had a gun, right? You believe that the Kurds would stick the guy in a hole ( where he could have escaped, of course), and provide him with a weapon? Do you have any critical faculties whatsoever?
You blindly accept this crap even though it comes from teh most unreliable source imaginable...
I think your desperate need to believe this says more about you than anything else.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
I find it excruciatingly funny that someone on a skeptic's site would have the credulity to believe this tale. You do realize that Saddam had a gun, right? You believe that the Kurds would stick the guy in a hole ( where he could have escaped, of course), and provide him with a weapon? Do you have any critical faculties whatsoever?
You blindly accept this crap even though it comes from teh most unreliable source imaginable...
I think your desperate need to believe this says more about you than anything else.


Sure they found guns. But what about bullets? Were there any of those?

I forgot about the $750,000,000 they found, though.

I guess we're going to be giving those Kurds a whole ton of plastic turkeys. We might have to build a comple of plastic turkey factories to pay all that back.

Or maybe the Kurds captured Saddam and didn't look in the shiny metal bank box.

MattJ

[Jocko]

Originally posted by Zero
That doesn't mean anything at all...but if you are predisposed to that sort of thing, I suppose it would. I'll retract my statement, apologize, and call it a draw?

No, I'd like a direct, straightforward apology for being called a liar by some asswipe who didn't bother to find out for himself. Hell, I'm shocked you didn't respond with your trademark "is that the best you can do? Come back when you blah blah blah" nonsense.

Your weasel-like behavior has been noted.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
I forgot about the $750,000,000 they found, though. Totally off topic: It was $750,000, wasn't it? :con2:

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Bjorn
Totally off topic: It was $750,000, wasn't it? :con2:

Sure, after the Kurds got through with it.



thanks for the catch, though.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Sure, after the Kurds got through with it. :D

[crackmonkey]

You know, leaving the $750,000 with Saddam makes it look as though
a) Saddam was, in fact, funding the resistance (which of course he wasn't - they are merely ordinary Iraqi patriots valiantly liberating their country from foreign imperialist occupiers)

b) Saddam wasn't placed there by the Kurds, since his captors would have taken the money! Leaving the money was a masterstroke, and a clear indication that the whole thing was a hoax.

Those sneaky damned Kurds. I wonder if they were trained by the Jews?

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Zero
That doesn't mean anything at all...but if you are predisposed to that sort of thing, I suppose it would. I'll retract my statement, apologize, and call it a draw?

Unless you meant me when you said "you guys", I have no need of your apologies.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Jocko


Lemme get this straight. The Kurds, who have been howling for Saddam's head for years, capture him. Then they spare his life and turn him over to the US, where they know he will face far more lenient treatment than they would provide, possibly to stand trial in an international court that has no death penalty.

Yeah, that sounds like something the Kurds would do.

Face it, if the Kurds ever got their hands on Saddam, we would never have found a single hair off his unwashed head. Ever. He'd be sleeping with the fishes, Kurd style.

The Kurds want the US to treat them favourably. In fact, they do want the US to treat them favourably. Their aspirations for their own state are still in the balance.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by aerocontrols


It was a real turkey, not plastic.

It was a decorative centerpiece. Haven't we already discussed this?

MattJ

I said fake, not plastic. The photo op was clearly of Dubya about to serve up a Norman Rockwell style turkey to his beloved troops. The reality was one more in a string of many manipulative photos that are set up for him that have nothing to do with reality. The reality was, the Turkey was not for serving to the troops, and Dubya wasn't going to be serving it. Reminds me of the "Mission Accomplished" banner.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
The claim that the Kurds captured Saddam, drugged him and then handed him over to US troops is so laughable that it's not even worth discussing yet. The only stories I've seen on it are in the Aussie tabloids and India tabloids. I can't find the original story anywhere.

About the turkey: Where was Bush supposed to get a real, uncarved turkey? Unless things have changed a lot, mess hall Thanksgiving is pre-cooked, pre-sliced and warmed up to serve. Newsweek reported that Bush was carrying the turkey around and joking with the troops about it. That's what the pictures look like, too. What's wrong with that?

As long as we're quoting tabloid stories, how about this one?

Bagram GI: Troops Waited While Hillary Chowed Down (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/12/2/11616.shtml)

I found a Scottish Newspaper with the same story. The Australian newspapers are definitely not tabloids. The original story from a Kurdish newspaper is quite probably not going to be on the net. And I started the topic with the qualification "according to these sources". I do not know if it is a fact yet, but as I said, given the string of lies and manipulations of the truth so far, I found it more than half credible.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by aerocontrols



Sure they found guns. But what about bullets? Were there any of those?

I forgot about the $750,000,000 they found, though.

I guess we're going to be giving those Kurds a whole ton of plastic turkeys. We might have to build a comple of plastic turkey factories to pay all that back.

Or maybe the Kurds captured Saddam and didn't look in the shiny metal bank box.

MattJ

It is pretty racist to assume the US troops would not steal the money, but the Kurds would.

[a_unique_person]

The Kurds announced his capture first.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=421824&section=news



Saddam Hussein reportedly arrested
Sun 14 December, 2003 10:27

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been arrested, an Iraqi Kurdish representative in Iran says, but the U.S. Defence Department says it can not confirm the report.

"I confirm that Saddam has been arrested," Nazem Dabag, representative in Iran of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), told Reuters on Sunday.

The official Iranian news agency IRNA quoted PUK leader Jalal Talabani as saying that Saddam had been captured in his home town of Tikrit.

"The American forces in Tikrit announced that Saddam was arrested on Sunday. The Americans said that they will announce the news officially in the next few hours," IRNA quoted Talabani as saying.

The news agency report was from Qasr-e Shirin in Iran across the border from Iraq. A Talabani aide said the Kurdish leader was in Tehran on his way to France.

The U.S. Defence Department said it could not confirm the report. Washington has made Saddam number one on its list of 55 most-wanted Iraqis, and placed a $25 million (14 million pounds) reward on his head.

[Jocko]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
The Kurds announced his capture first.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=421824&section=news



Perhaps because they weren't interested in waiting for the DNA test results? This proves nothing. I'm sure you can understand if the US Government is a tad more cautious about making such an announcement?

Occam's Razor keeps coming up, doesn't it?

[crackmonkey]

They announced that he had been arrested, not that they were the ones who arrested him. The Kurdish leader was quoted as saying the Americans told him Saddam had been arrested...

You made a dunce of yourself over this??? Work on the reading comprehension, pal...

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


I found a Scottish Newspaper with the same story. The Australian newspapers are definitely not tabloids. The original story from a Kurdish newspaper is quite probably not going to be on the net. And I started the topic with the qualification "according to these sources". I do not know if it is a fact yet, but as I said, given the string of lies and manipulations of the truth so far, I found it more than half credible.

According to the Australian newspaper that you quoted the original story was broken in a British tabloid, I couldn't find that tabloid. And what kind of a newspaper quotes tabloid stories with no link to the original story? Amazingly objective reporting, that.

Personally, I think the story grew out a combination of the Kurds reporting the US troops capture of Saddam and the junk Saddam's daughter has been spouting about her brave father being drugged, and that's why he didn't fight to the death.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I said fake, not plastic.

I was not correcting you, AUP. Your point, though trivial, is technically correct.

As usual, your reading skills leave something to be desired.

MattJ

[NullPointerException]

You prove your ignorance with the turkey incident, he walked in and picked up the traditional army center piece and exclaimed how good it looked. He did not bring the turkey in, nor did he say hmmm hmmm we are going to eat this turkey. Also, they showed footage of him serving from a cafeteria style line. Now if you are trying to prove that the swaggering cowboy bush is a phony you failed. If you are trying to prove that the media is untrustworthy and biased, way to go buddy!

[BTox]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
Yep, it was a fake, according to these sources.



Getting back to the original topic of this thread, conclusive proof that the above "fake capture" claim is false:

NEW YORK – A knowledgeable U.S. official tells Newsweek that as he was being captured, Saddam Hussein struggled, spat at soldiers and was 'decked' by a commando, either with a punch or a rifle butt.

The military later tidied up the story for popular consumption.


Source: conclusive proof saddam captured by U.S. alone (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/12/21/151654.shtml)

[Luke T.]

My understanding was that the U.S. did not announce the capture of Saddam until the DNA test came back to confirm it was really him. I suppose the Kurds couldn't wait that long and leaked the capture. It doesn't mean they are the ones who captured him.

As for Saddam's daughter, of course she will say he looked like he was drugged. It is the only way she can internally accept that he gave up so easily. And I would say Saddam looked exhausted in the video, which is no surprise.

I keep hearing about this anonymous Army official who says Saddam spit on the troops who captured him and one of them slugged him. They can't even tell if Saddam was punched in the face or the stomach. Real credible bull, if you ask me. I suppose it is another way for some people to feel better about him giving up so easily.

Ever since Saddam's capture I have been wondering if the guys who caught him took a couple of private photos. Some troops carry cameras for personal use. Hi,mom. Here I am in front of one of Saddam's palaces, and so on.

There was a movie, I can't remember the name, that took place in a record store. It had Liv Tyler in it. At one point they catch a shoplifter. A little punk. They end up taking pictures with him holding the merchandise he stole. They turn it into a real funny scene. I keep imagining Saddam and the troops in the same kind of scenario. :D

"Okay, Saddam. Now put your hands around Sgt. Smuckatelli's neck and grimace like you are choking him."

"Here. Put these sunglasses on and give the thumbs up."

Just hamming it up. If it was me, I'dve been tempted.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Luke T.
My understanding was that the U.S. did not announce the capture of Saddam until the DNA test came back to confirm it was really him. I suppose the Kurds couldn't wait that long and leaked the capture. It doesn't mean they are the ones who captured him.

As for Saddam's daughter, of course she will say he looked like he was drugged. It is the only way she can internally accept that he gave up so easily. And I would say Saddam looked exhausted in the video, which is no surprise.

I keep hearing about this anonymous Army official who says Saddam spit on the troops who captured him and one of them slugged him. They can't even tell if Saddam was punched in the face or the stomach. Real credible bull, if you ask me. I suppose it is another way for some people to feel better about him giving up so easily.

Ever since Saddam's capture I have been wondering if the guys who caught him took a couple of private photos. Some troops carry cameras for personal use. Hi,mom. Here I am in front of one of Saddam's palaces, and so on.

There was a movie, I can't remember the name, that took place in a record store. It had Liv Tyler in it. At one point they catch a shoplifter. A little punk. They end up taking pictures with him holding the merchandise he stole. They turn it into a real funny scene. I keep imagining Saddam and the troops in the same kind of scenario. :D

"Okay, Saddam. Now put your hands around Sgt. Smuckatelli's neck and grimace like you are choking him."

"Here. Put these sunglasses on and give the thumbs up."

Just hamming it up. If it was me, I'dve been tempted.

Hamming it up is not acceptable. Sorry, but that is the nature of the job.

Like I said at the start, "according to these sources". If there is no more confirmation of the story, then it may appear to be a red herring.

[Troll]

Originally posted by LFTKBS


Well, imagine that it's you in that situation. What are your motives for picking up the plastic turkey? Why do you carry it around? Wouldn't you feel weird? If you were having, say, a wine-and-cheese party at your house, would you carry a bowl of fake fruit around while talking to your guests?

Whether it's a filthy horrible lie or not isn't my problem with it. My problem is that it's just a weird goddamn thing to do, and I can't understand those motives. Can you?

Take a freaking photography class or watch TLC when they discuss how pictures of food are done. Bush doesn't get to make all the decisions. 9/11 , Secret Service basically dictate his moves for safety, photo ops, the photographer tries to make the picture look good.

I'm neither a pro nor a hack, but last time I took a pic of real food it looked unedible in the picture only.

Ever eat in a chow or mess-hall? Ever see what Army and Marine Corps cooks food looks like? Had the damned thing been real you lot would be whining about the poor quality of food and blame him for that too.

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Hamming it up is not acceptable. Sorry, but that is the nature of the job.

Like I said at the start, "according to these sources". If there is no more confirmation of the story, then it may appear to be a red herring.

But that of course didn't stop you from posting an assertion from a "tabloid" and treating it like it must be true.

Does anyone else think any thought that AUP is in the least bit fair minded should be abandoned?

[crackmonkey]

According to my sources, Bill Clinton paid bin Laden to attack the WTC. Without further corroboration, of course, I can't be certain that it's at all factual. But I'll argue vigorously in the defense of this baseless rumor for days, just like my hero AUP.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Mike B.


But that of course didn't stop you from posting an assertion from a "tabloid" and treating it like it must be true.

Does anyone else think any thought that AUP is in the least bit fair minded should be abandoned?

"The Age" is not a tabloid. I have one sitting on the table next to me. It is a genuine broadsheet, with pretensions to serious journalism, (despite the attempts of recent owners to take it downmarket). As I said, we shall see.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
According to my sources, Bill Clinton paid bin Laden to attack the WTC. Without further corroboration, of course, I can't be certain that it's at all factual. But I'll argue vigorously in the defense of this baseless rumor for days, just like my hero AUP.

The story referred to more than one source, plus I found at least one other reputable paper with the story. I also provided links to these newspapers. Perhaps if you are going to make an argument, make it valid.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


"The Age" is not a tabloid. I have one sitting on the table next to me. It is a genuine broadsheet, with pretensions to serious journalism, (despite the attempts of recent owners to take it downmarket). As I said, we shall see.

Let's see...an article about some Olympic athete who's GF tried to gouge his eyes out...............man eaten by crocodile...........................something about a journalist who works nights as a nude model..............and of course--an article on Michael Jackson.


In the US.....we generally refer to things like that as "tabloids".

I guess in Australia..it's "serious journalism".....................

[Jocko]

Originally posted by Ralph



In the US.....we generally refer to things like that as "tabloids".

I guess in Australia..it's "serious journalism".....................

It's not their fault. I keep telling people that it's the coriolis effect. That's why all the Aussies here are just a tad off. AUP, Fool, Mr. Manifesto... all victims of the coriolis effect.

No one ever listens to me, of course, but imagine how you would feel if you had to watch the toilet flush clockwise every day.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Jocko


It's not their fault. I keep telling people that it's the coriolis effect. That's why all the Aussies here are just a tad off. AUP, Fool, Mr. Manifesto... all victims of the coriolis effect.

No one ever listens to me, of course, but imagine how you would feel if you had to watch the toilet flush clockwise every day.

Maybe the reason no-one listens to you is because you have no idea how the coriolis effect works (http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.htm).

[Jocko]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Maybe the reason no-one listens to you is because you have no idea how the coriolis effect works (http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.htm).

And perhaps the reason no one takes you seriously is because you have no sense of humor.

Edited to add: You conjured that link pretty quickly. Perhaps I've touched a nerve - apparently this isn't the first time you've heard it.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Jocko


And perhaps the reason no one takes you seriously is because you have no sense of humor.

Edited to add: You conjured that link pretty quickly. Perhaps I've touched a nerve - apparently this isn't the first time you've heard it.

lol. He's fallen back on the 'I was joking' defense. What a n00b.

[aerocontrols]

Joshua Micah Marshall (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_12_21.html#002341) pokes some holes in the "Kurds captured Saddam" theory.

Also examine the link to Yvonne Ridley, the original author.

MattJ

[crackmonkey]

AUP - I think you undercut any possible credibility you may have had far better than any of your detractors ever could. Bravo.

Incidentally - it doesn't matter how many stories you link to if the link doesn't say what you assert it says.

In future, it would help if you actually read the content before discussing it.
That would make things far less amusing for the rest of us, though...

[Jocko]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


lol. He's fallen back on the 'I was joking' defense. What a n00b.

What an ass you are. I know you've never met a conspiracy theory you didn't like, but did you honestly take serious offense at my suggestion that the coriolis effect has made you Aussies loopy?

Of course not. The idea is rubbish.

It's that cocked-up university you attend that has made you loopy.

And kindly refrain from calling me a "n00b," since I have already pointed out in another thread that I've been here for over two years compared to your 9 months. Or is this part of the new doublespeak being propped up as education these days?

Show a little respect to your elders, son.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Jocko


What an ass you are. I know you've never met a conspiracy theory you didn't like, but did you honestly take serious offense at my suggestion that the coriolis effect has made you Aussies loopy?

Of course not. The idea is rubbish.

It's that cocked-up university you attend that has made you loopy.

And kindly refrain from calling me a "n00b," since I have already pointed out in another thread that I've been here for over two years compared to your 9 months. Or is this part of the new doublespeak being propped up as education these days?

Show a little respect to your elders, son.

Uh....Jocko--------you're making the same mistake I made. I thought he was a college student.

He hasn't even STARTED college yet...


Not that there's anything wrong with that of course.................