Are the freemasons demonic?

[NorthMass]

I don't really know anything about them, some say they are good people others like this site say they are satanic, I have no clue lolz.

http://freemasonrywatch.org/lucifer.html

I also started watching this movie that alleges Jay-Z is a freemason who is demonic, don't know anything about freemasons to be honest. I have an open mind though so I'll watch anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDgUTQYEIas

In part 2 the narrarator alleges that the video of the solider getting his head cut off is the only time in history this was shown on cable television, is this true?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhS8-_KYTBo

[JoeyDonuts]

Yes.

They're coming for your children, and plan on making a nice meat pie out of them.

Your only hope is to summon a demonic entity with a higher Constitution - like one of the "Old Ones."

[NorthMass]

Yes.

They're coming for your children, and plan on making a nice meat pie out of them.

Your only hope is to summon a demonic entity with a higher Constitution - like one of the "Old Ones."

Making fun of my honest questions is not going to get anyone anywhere, I don't know much of anything about freemasonry, I am just asking questions. For all I know they are the best organization in the world, or maybe they are demonic, I have no idea, I have no idea if these sources are accurate, I am just curious about the subject.

[Sledge]

Do you mean demonic as in evil, or demonic as in controlled by demons?

[NorthMass]

Do you mean demonic as in evil, or demonic as in controlled by demons?

Demonic as in worshipping satan, or at least at the top level some worship satan. Doesn't mean they are evil per sey, it may simply be many masons being brainwashed into worshipping satan for example(hypothetically).

[JoeyDonuts]

Making fun of my honest questions is not going to get anyone anywhere, I don't know much of anything about freemasonry, I am just asking questions. For all I know they are the best organization in the world, or maybe they are demonic, I have no idea, I have no idea if these sources are accurate, I am just curious about the subject.

Oh really? So instead of actually trying to learn who they are and what they do, you automatically jump on the "demonic" thing?

How many freemasons do you know? There's a couple on this board, I'd imagine they'll post soon if they feel up to it.

Besides, for them to be demonic - demons would have to exist. I don't suppose you have a good reason for believing in that possibility?

And for future reference - YouTube isn't a reliable source for anything but 1980's music videos and cats doing funny things.

[grandthefttoaster]

I think there just a club for old guys. I wouldn't trust a Fundamentalist Chrstian websites with a scary black background and no sources. My response to Freemason conspiracy theories is that Freemasons have been around for 400 years and everyone has heard of them, so if they are secretly planing to take over the world, then they are probably the worst conspirators ever.

[Caustic Logic]

Making fun of my honest questions is not going to get anyone anywhere, I don't know much of anything about freemasonry, I am just asking questions. For all I know they are the best organization in the world, or maybe they are demonic, I have no idea, I have no idea if these sources are accurate, I am just curious about the subject.

On the contrary, it's good for a chuckle and to let you know some at least find these concerns laughable. Take it as an FYI.

Others can also be more helpful. I don't know a lot myself except that most people concerned with Freemason spirituality are hardcore Christians who prescribe to a narrow view of being beset on all sides by "the world," inherently corrupt as it is. Or old line royalists. Freemasons historically supported anti-royalist revolustions, freedoms and constitutions, democracy, equality, etc. Then they got more powerful as this side of things won and spread. Now they're reviled as an insider's power club. They've toyed with unitarian/new-agey/religious interpretations, and do employ symbols that can have occult meanings. If all this means demonic to you, I guess it is a matter of opinion and definitions. I'm more worried about them bombing people just cause they're in power than raising the antichrist.

[LightinDarkness]

Oh pick me! Pick me!

As a freemason, I can assure you there is nothing demonic about the fraternity. Freemasonrywatch is a fear mongering site that was founded and run by a CTer who is, quite literally, mentally deranged. He has some mental disorders and needs to seek professional mental health.

All of the rituals of freemasonry - the real ones, not the made up ones you find on freemasonry watch - are available to the public. They have been in the public domain since around 1725, and you can buy a copy from Barnes and Noble or check it out from your local library. Or you can find it in 5 seconds on google. Read them - and you'll find that freemasonry isn't nearly as sexy as freemasonry watch makes it out to be.

Its a fraternity based on esoteric philosophy with a bit of charity. Nothing more, nothing less.

PS - Jay-Z isnt a freemason. Thats a conspiracy myth. He knows by using conspiracy symbolism he'll attract the nutters.

[JoeyDonuts]

PS - Jay-Z isnt a freemason. Thats a conspiracy myth.

The man's married to Beyonce. Can't imagine him wanting to hang around a bunch of wheezing old guys in dresses.

Ooops. Sorry about that.

[LightinDarkness]

Demonic as in worshipping satan, or at least at the top level some worship satan. Doesn't mean they are evil per sey, it may simply be many masons being brainwashed into worshipping satan for example(hypothetically).

There is no "top level" (or "bottom level") of freemasonry. Its the #1 conspiracy myth about the fraternity, that some sort of levels exist- the entire point is that we meet on the same level.

[LightinDarkness]

The man's married to Beyonce. Can't imagine him wanting to hang around a bunch of wheezing old guys in dresses.

Ooops. Sorry about that.

Dresses?

Hey! Just because we have a Scottish Rite doesn't mean we run around in kilts! :D

[Caustic Logic]

Also, Freemasons have been involved in conspiratorial stuff. They live in the world. Duh. Some have hated and mistrusted them. Check "Anti-Masonic Party" in American history, and note that John Adams, its most prominent member, had a royalist pro-British flavor to him.

LiD culd probably help with that chapter, and a good person to talk to, if you're not so creeped out at an actual Mason you have to run for an exit. "Oh my God, they're on the internet now? They're more powerful than I imagined..." :boxedin:

[LightinDarkness]

Also, Freemasons have been involved in conspiratorial stuff. They live in the world. Duh. Some have hated and mistrusted them. Check "Anti-Masonic Party" in American history, and note that John Adams, its most prominent member, had a royalist pro-British flavor to him.

LiD culd probably help with that chapter, and a good person to talk to, if you're not so creeped out at an actual Mason you have to run for an exit. "Oh my God, they're on the internet now? They're more powerful than I imagined..." :boxedin:

*Insert evil, maniacal cackle* YES! The interwebs are the final chapter of our plan for world-domination by FISH FRIES!

It is true that freemasonry has been involved in real conspiracies. Like the conspiracy to overthrow Hitler, or the conspiracy against the British in the Revolutionary War.

[NorthMass]

There is no "top level" (or "bottom level") of freemasonry. Its the #1 conspiracy myth about the fraternity, that some sort of levels exist- the entire point is that we meet on the same level.

Then why do people always bring up 32 degree or 33 degree masons or whatever that means lol. I don't believe the organization is bad but I always keep hearing these rumors so I just wanted to see if they for real or not.

So like the 32 degree masons and 33 degree masons are the same? I have heard the claim that the lower-level masons don't know the same amount the higher-levels do, but then again you just said that there is no different levels so that would debunk that claim.

Oh pick me! Pick me!

As a freemason, I can assure you there is nothing demonic about the fraternity. Freemasonrywatch is a fear mongering site that was founded and run by a CTer who is, quite literally, mentally deranged. He has some mental disorders and needs to seek professional mental health.

All of the rituals of freemasonry - the real ones, not the made up ones you find on freemasonry watch - are available to the public. They have been in the public domain since around 1725, and you can buy a copy from Barnes and Noble or check it out from your local library. Or you can find it in 5 seconds on google. Read them - and you'll find that freemasonry isn't nearly as sexy as freemasonry watch makes it out to be.

Does freemasonrywatch base its evidence off of hear say from supposed former masons? I've noticed with a lot of conspiracies that this is the case, someone claims they used to be part of something and that something did something bad, etc.

Its a fraternity based on esoteric philosophy with a bit of charity. Nothing more, nothing less.

So people just make up this demonic stuff I keep hearing or base it off of hearsay?

PS - Jay-Z isnt a freemason. Thats a conspiracy myth. He knows by using conspiracy symbolism he'll attract the nutters.

That makes sense, just draws up attention for himself.

[JoeyDonuts]

No "former mason" involvement needed. Any time there is a group that meets in secret, is pretty old, and doesn't make its policies and procedures a matter of public knowledge, people are going to make up their own ideas about what goes on in there.

All the more so if they have an axe to grind.

The late-80's early 90's "Satanic Panic" pushed by the religious right saw a whole lot of people claim they were high-ranking Masons and worshipped Satan, etc...all B.S.

Check this website out. A lot of good information there to counter the Fundie Christian smear B.S.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/

[LightinDarkness]

Then why do people always bring up 32 degree or 33 degree masons or whatever that means lol. I don't believe the organization is bad but I always keep hearing these rumors so I just wanted to see if they for real or not.

Because people would generally rather believe what sounds sexy than the truth. People want to believe that degree numbers equate into some sort of rank, power, or authority. They do not. Never have.

The core of freemasonry is the 1st (Entered Apprentice), 2nd (Fellowcraft), and 3rd degrees (Master Mason). This is the original freemasonry before any side order, and all members reach the 3rd degree in 3-12 months, depending on their lodge and the candidate's desire to advance. Upon reaching the third degree the member is the highest degree in terms of rank, authority, and power. There is no higher degree.

The 32nd and 33rd degrees are offered by one side order of freemasonry, called the Scottish Rite. It is just ONE side order - there are quite a few. In the US, the main two side orders are the Scottish Rite and the York Rite. For sheer convenience sake, the Scottish Rite numerically orders its numerous side degrees (ending in 33). The York Rite does not, although it ends in a degree called Knights Templar. Members join either order based on their preference and a 32nd or 33rd degree mason of the Scottish Rite is no "higher" than a Knight Templar in the York Rite nor is either higher than a 3rd degree master mason.

In fact, in order to maintain membership in orders like the Scottish Rite (which have the 32 and 33 degree masons) you must remain in good standing with your blue lodge (where you received the 3rd degree).


So like the 32 degree masons and 33 degree masons are the same? I have heard the claim that the lower-level masons don't know the same amount the higher-levels do, but then again you just said that there is no different levels so that would debunk that claim.

The same in terms of what? Yes, they are the same in terms of rank, power, and authority - exactly equal. The only difference between a 32nd and 33rd degree mason is that the 33rd degree is by invitation of the Supreme Council to a brother mason who has made extraordinarily contributions to the fraternity or society. Its a honorary degree for doing a lot for your community - think of it as a community service award. There are no "lower level masons" or "higher level masons." Degrees beyond the third degree come from side orders and do not convey any additional knowledge, they simply build upon the first three degrees.



Does freemasonrywatch base its evidence off of hear say from supposed former masons? I've noticed with a lot of conspiracies that this is the case, someone claims they used to be part of something and that something did something bad, etc.


Freemasonrywach bases its claims on debunked hoaxes like the Leo Taxil hoax, which have been proven false for years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax

The Leo Taxil hoax is the source of these "demonic" claims, which Taxil later admitted he completely made up.

[LightinDarkness]

No "former mason" involvement needed. Any time there is a group that meets in secret, is pretty old, and doesn't make its policies and procedures a matter of public knowledge, people are going to make up their own ideas about what goes on in there.

All the more so if they have an axe to grind.

The late-80's early 90's "Satanic Panic" pushed by the religious right saw a whole lot of people claim they were high-ranking Masons and worshipped Satan, etc...all B.S.

Check this website out. A lot of good information there to counter the Fundie Christian smear B.S.

http://www.masonicinfo.com/

I second that - masonicinfo is a excellent site. The creator is a very knowledgeable mason. The site is primarily dedicated to explaining freemasonry to non-masons (although masons love to read it as well). Hes done a lot of good and well sourced research, and hes a very humorous writer when it comes to exposing the conspiracy theories and freemason hoaxers.

[NorthMass]

Because people would generally rather believe what sounds sexy than the truth. People want to believe that degree numbers equate into some sort of rank, power, or authority. They do not. Never have.

The core of freemasonry is the 1st (Entered Apprentice), 2nd (Fellowcraft), and 3rd degrees (Master Mason). This is the original freemasonry before any side order, and all members reach the 3rd degree in 3-12 months, depending on their lodge and the candidate's desire to advance. Upon reaching the third degree the member is the highest degree in terms of rank, authority, and power. There is no higher degree.

The 32nd and 33rd degrees are offered by one side order of freemasonry, called the Scottish Rite. It is just ONE side order - there are quite a few. In the US, the main two side orders are the Scottish Rite and the York Rite. For sheer convenience sake, the Scottish Rite numerically orders its numerous side degrees (ending in 33). The York Rite does not, although it ends in a degree called Knights Templar. Members join either order based on their preference and a 32nd or 33rd degree mason of the Scottish Rite is no "higher" than a Knight Templar in the York Rite nor is either higher than a 3rd degree master mason.

In fact, in order to maintain membership in orders like the Scottish Rite (which have the 32 and 33 degree masons) you must remain in good standing with your blue lodge (where you received the 3rd degree).



The same in terms of what? Yes, they are the same in terms of rank, power, and authority - exactly equal. The only difference between a 32nd and 33rd degree mason is that the 33rd degree is by invitation of the Supreme Council to a brother mason who has made extraordinarily contributions to the fraternity or society. Its a honorary degree for doing a lot for your community - think of it as a community service award. There are no "lower level masons" or "higher level masons." Degrees beyond the third degree come from side orders and do not convey any additional knowledge, they simply build upon the first three degrees.




Freemasonrywach bases its claims on debunked hoaxes like the Leo Taxil hoax, which have been proven false for years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax

The Leo Taxil hoax is the source of these "demonic" claims, which Taxil later admitted he completely made up.

Well thank you for the responses, I had no idea about the freemasons coming into this thread really but it seems like the freemason conspiracy theories may simply not be accurate.

[Symbol]

Its a fraternity based on esoteric philosophy with a bit of charity. Nothing more, nothing less.

I like this summary.

Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?

[Caustic Logic]

Well thank you for the responses, I had no idea about the freemasons coming into this thread really but it seems like the freemason conspiracy theories may simply not be accurate.

And you are behaving like a genuine person that's learning. And it's not there's not some interesting things to learn about the 'brotherhood' and its history and whether or not it does signify something more concrete behind the scenes... but yeah, all that cartoony 'they worship goats and want a luciferian world order and draw their dark secrets from babylon...' motivates by scaring more than by educating.

Now, it was stated here there aren't all these levels, except then there are, but only with the Scottish Rite. So... there is a 33rd degree and those beneath it in the Scottish Rite brand of Freemasonry. And the original question was what's up with that? I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.

[JoeyDonuts]

Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?

They have horrendous gas, and they never own up to it, either.

[Checkmite]

Why do I always miss the fun threads?

[fitzgibbon]

[snip]...it seems like the freemason conspiracy theories may simply not be accurate.

Congratulations on the understatement of the week. :D

It seems that some groups take issue with Fremasonry's religious tolerance, seeing Evil© ahoof where men of good conscience work together for the betterment of society.

Sad really

[fitzgibbon]

Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?

Not an official explanation but quite simply because Freemasonry's a fraternity, ergo male-only. And there are Masonic outlets for women either in the Order of the Eastern Star, Co-Masonry (mixed gender Masonry) or women's Masonry (women-only Masonry).

[fitzgibbon]

I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.

14 of 44 have been Masons, the most recent being Gerald Ford (33° BTW). If you want to stretch it, Clinton could be tarred Masonic for being involved in De Molay (Masonic boy's group).

From a quick boo around Google, it seems only two were 33° Masons:

Harry Truman and Gerald Ford

Information sourced from this site (http://www.pagrandlodge.org/mlam/presidents/index.html)

HTH
Fitz

[Drudgewire]

They have horrendous gas


It can barely power those stupid cars shriners drive. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/eng101.gif

[LightinDarkness]

I like this summary.

Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?

When you ask whether freemasonry has an "official explanation", freemasonry is such an amorphous term that there really is no official organ to issue such statements.

The most widely known organization that represents mainstream freemasonry, the United Grand Lodge of England, has I believe stated now on several occasions that while the UGLE does not permit women to join UGLE affiliated lodges that it has no problem with females forming their own female-only or co-ed lodges. There are several organizations that have done just that. The UGLE recently put on a big exhibit about female freemasonry and the important role that it has had in the organizations development.

In the US and (I think) Scotland, the Order of the Eastern Stars exists which is a masonic organization that women can and do join. It isn't a lodge but is considered one of the many organizations that exist under the masonic umbrella like Jobs Daughters (childrens group for girls) or DeMolay (childrens group for boys).

Freemasonry is made up of so many disparate organizations - since no masonic organization holds a copyright to the term "freemason" and none of them have an interest in controlling who gets to claim the title. So what that results in is women creating female-only lodges, men and women creating co-ed lodges, and men creating men-only lodges. And none of them have any interest in changing how the other groups run their lodges. In that respect its really similar (although this is all Freemasonry has that is similar with greek organizations) to university greek groups - some are men only (fraternities), some are female only (sororities), and some are co-ed.

[LightinDarkness]

Now, it was stated here there aren't all these levels, except then there are, but only with the Scottish Rite. So... there is a 33rd degree and those beneath it in the Scottish Rite brand of Freemasonry. And the original question was what's up with that? I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.

Fitz has answered this well but there is another part I want to address on this, which is bolded.

No one has ever claimed that there are "levels" in the Scottish Rite except conspiracy theorists. Levels would mean that the degrees progress in a way which higher numbers grant additional power, authority, or rank. They do not, and they never have. The degrees are numbered because there are 30 of them and its easier to keep track of that way. Frankly, if the Scottish Rite had any idea a few hundred years ago how the numbers would be interpreted they probably would have dropped it or changed it to a letter system. IE, we'd have the A-Z degrees.

And as its been originally answered, the 33rd degree of the Scottish Rite is a community service award. Its given to those members who have made huge contributions through their profession, charity work, philanthropy, etc. to freemasonry and society at large. No one is "beneath" a 33rd degree mason. They have just as much power and authority as any 3rd degree mason. In fact, practically speaking I probably have more power than most 33rd degree masons because most are extraordinarily busy professionals who can't make it to most of the meetings and never vote on anything. Of course, then there are the 33rd degree retired farmers who show up to EVERYTHING...but their vote counts just as much as mine.

[LightinDarkness]

Why do I always miss the fun threads?

Now now, I was going to let you take this one but when I saw freemasonry watch I sort of pounced. That site and its spread of conspiracy hysteria gets to me. :D

[Checkmite]

Oh yeah - is that the site that offers ex-Masons special prayers to get right with God again after being a Mason? Black background, very 90's? Man, that site's been around forever - I think I remember seeing it once while I was still in high school.

And yes, masonicinfo.com is a VERY good site. Looks to me like you got the bases covered here.

[LightinDarkness]

Yep, that FreemasonryWatch. Offering Anti-Masonic Propaganda based in 18th century hoaxes with TERRIBLE website design since 1990! :D

[JoeyDonuts]

It can barely power those stupid cars shriners drive. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/eng101.gif

Stupid?!? The only reason I would ever profess belief in a Supreme Architect is so I'd' get to haul ass in one of those things wearing a totally sweet fez.

[redlite]

They have horrendous gas, and they never own up to it, either.

But there's always a telltale pile of rose petals and spice, if you care to look. And besides, they don't even get an ass until they get married.

[fitzgibbon]

Stupid?!? The only reason I would ever profess belief in a Supreme Architect is so I'd' get to haul ass in one of those things wearing a totally sweet fez.

Ya need the cigar to round out the image, Joey. :D

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4OYGjUrdllo/SNR1HWmCjoI/AAAAAAAAHbM/02DpHXHcWkI/s400/betso_munny.jpg

[Caustic Logic]

14 of 44 have been Masons, the most recent being Gerald Ford (33° BTW). If you want to stretch it, Clinton could be tarred Masonic for being involved in De Molay (Masonic boy's group).

From a quick boo around Google, it seems only two were 33° Masons:

Harry Truman and Gerald Ford

Information sourced from this site (http://www.pagrandlodge.org/mlam/presidents/index.html)

HTH
Fitz

I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.

[fitzgibbon]

I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.

In starting out, I would've expected more but that's what the numbers show. Not so surprising is the paucity of ebil Masons in the last generation which dovetails nicely wit Masonry falling out of favour with grown-ups ( non-Boomer grown-ups, that is to say). I also would've expected more to have been granted 33° by simple virtue of having achieved the States' highest public office. Obviously the Scottish Rite folks are a hardass, hard-to-please bunch. :D

The other thing to bear in mind is Masonry's popularity through the generations. You have to bear in mind that there was an anti-Masonic backlash in the States (and to a lesser degree in Canada) from about 1827 to the mid-1800s as a result of the Morgan Affair. And then with the Boomers rejecting the things their fathers held dear, there was also a dip there. However, everything runs in cycles and as many Masonic lodges are seeing an uptick in interest in Masonry (and religious and societal focus in general), it wouldn't surprise me to see another president of the States who's a Mason (or has Clinton-like Masonic connections) within the next decade or so.

Freemasonry's acceptance of religious equality may (over the long term) prove prescient. Hopefully mankind will live up to its potential in that regard

[Thunder]

You know, the Nazis hated the Freemasons as well.

[LightinDarkness]

I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.

Its a common conspiracy myth that most presidents are "33rd degree masons." Its a lie - it has never been true. The "they have all been masons by Kennedy!" lie comes from the CT mischaracterization of his secrecy speech - which they claim was talking about secret societies, but really was talking about free press and communism. Only a handful of presidents have ever been masons, and of those, only a few were 33rd degree masons.

The levels don't indicate power OR dedication. It takes 2 days to go from the 3rd degree to the 32nd degree, they do it in a weekend. Some people choose to take their time and only see a few degrees each year. Some decide to do it all in that weekend. It takes far more work to apply and receive the 1st degree than it does the 32nd degree of the Scottish Rite. They just aren't level in any sense of the word - they are a numbering system. That is all.

CTs envision freemasonry as some sort of pyramid structure with 1st degree at the bottom and 33rd degree at the top. The only place such a structure exists is in CT fantasy worlds. In reality, the 3rd degree is the highest masonic degree at all levels. In many places outside of the US people haven't even HEARD of the Scottish Rite.

[fitzgibbon]

You know, the Nazis hated the Freemasons as well.

Good company to be in in that regard. Too bad they were no more right than most conspiracy theorists

[Myron Proudfoot]

I don't really know anything about them, some say they are good people others like this site say they are satanic, I have no clue lolz.


well, one of my uncles is a Mason and he's kind of a jerk sometimes, but I wouldn't call him Satanic... I think that just makes him human...

[fuelair]

Oh really? So instead of actually trying to learn who they are and what they do, you automatically jump on the "demonic" thing?

How many freemasons do you know? There's a couple on this board, I'd imagine they'll post soon if they feel up to it.

Besides, for them to be demonic - demons would have to exist. I don't suppose you have a good reason for believing in that possibility?

And for future reference - YouTube isn't a reliable source for anything but 1980's music videos and cats doing funny things.In all fairness, I have got a number of good 1960s/70s music segments and a couple of TV shows I could not find from other sources on youtube.

:)

And, devil worshippers or not, they make great jars!!!

[dropzone]

I grew up assuming the Shriners were in it half for the fun (carousing at conventions and driving flying-carpet go-karts in parades) and half to raise funds for their hospitals. I did not know they had to work their way up in the Masons to qualify. This knowledge was the first chink in my suspicions that the Masons were bent on World Domination, since their predecessors like Hitler had used tanks and bombers, not go-carts.

[LightinDarkness]

I grew up assuming the Shriners were in it half for the fun (carousing at conventions and driving flying-carpet go-karts in parades) and half to raise funds for their hospitals. I did not know they had to work their way up in the Masons to qualify. This knowledge was the first chink in my suspicions that the Masons were bent on World Domination, since their predecessors like Hitler had used tanks and bombers, not go-carts.

Membership in the Shriners formally required either being a 32nd degree mason or a Knight Templar, but it was dropped a few years ago. Now any 3rd degree mason can become a Shriner. So there is no working there way up...and to be honest being a Knights Templar or 32nd degree mason doesn't require working your way up either...although maybe there is some sort of internal ranking system for who gets to drive the go-karts ;)

[dropzone]

So I still have a chance to drive one?

[zaphod2016]

Dresses?

Hey! Just because we have a Scottish Rite doesn't mean we run around in kilts! :D

Honest question, LID: what is the dress code at meetings? Suit and tie? Business casual? Shorts and tees?

I honestly have no idea.

Follow-up question: are y'all feuding with the shriners? Is it like a bloods and crips thing?

[Orphia Nay]

Why do I always miss the fun threads?

That's cos you're always too busy sautéeing the babies on the altar to Satan.

[Checkmite]

Honest question, LID: what is the dress code at meetings? Suit and tie? Business casual? Shorts and tees?

I honestly have no idea.

Follow-up question: are y'all feuding with the shriners? Is it like a bloods and crips thing?

This depends on the lodge, really. My lodge is suit and tie - business casual at the very least (because we're aware some people don't have fancy duds). Some older lodges - and most lodges in the UK I'm told - are tuxedo-required. So yeah, it's a toss-up depending on your lodge.

As for the Shriners - well, the Shrine is a Masonic organization. Its proper name is "Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine"; and if the name gives you the impression that it's some kind of joke, that's because it is. The Shrine, although it does serious charity work, is designed to be a bit more laid-back and fun-loving than the typical Blue Lodge. It's like Masonic recess. There's another appendant Masonic organization formed for much the same purpose. It's called the "Mystic Order of Veiled Prophets of the Enchanted Realm" - it's short name is "the Grotto".

[fuelair]

I prefer the Mystic Knights of the Sea Lodge!!!!

[LightinDarkness]

Honest question, LID: what is the dress code at meetings? Suit and tie? Business casual? Shorts and tees?

I honestly have no idea.

Follow-up question: are y'all feuding with the shriners? Is it like a bloods and crips thing?

Checkmite is right on with his answers. It really varies between lodges. His lodge is formal, for example, while my home lodge has members that show up wearing tshirts and flip flops (and some also only show up in business attire). It would probably offend the sensibilities of my more formal UGLE brethren, but my lodge doesn't really have a dress code because many of its members work blue collar jobs and wouldn't be able to make it to the meetings on time if they had to go home first and change into business attire. We still dress up for big yearly events like the officer ceremonies. I'm not big into playing dress up since I have to for my job, so I made sure to join a lodge that didn't place a value on it - but other lodges have pretty strict dress codes.

While the Shriners are a masonic organization chiefly used for "fun" and charity, there has been some internal strife. Some Shriners were recently found guilty of doing some pretty horrific things (participating in human sex slave trafficking) while at a Shriners meeting. Now, this doesn't mean the Shrine would ever condone or support such a thing - the leaders of the Shrine are as abhorred about it as everyone else - but the fact that it took place at a Shrine meeting just feeds anti-masonic sentiment and yellow journalism. It enables people to easily paint all masons with a broad brush when they read about it, even though the "masons" in question were thrown out and condemned by every masonic organization they were affiliated with.

There is also a long standing dispute between the side orders and blue lodges. Many members who are active in the blue lodge (1st-3rd degrees) get rather annoyed at people who join just to go on to a side order and never show up again at their home lodge. Shrine members are known to recruit friends who do this, which has lead to serious internal discussions on both sides about breaking the ties between the Shrine and freemasonry. Although the Shrine is a great charitable organization and its charity is reflective of masonic values, some masons feel like the intense spotlight on the Shriners hospitals takes away from all the other masonic charities that blue lodges support.

[DDWW]

Honest question, LID: what is the dress code at meetings? Suit and tie? Business casual? Shorts and tees?

I honestly have no idea.



When I moved from the midwest to the southwest the dress code was very different (much more casual), but really can vary between lodges in the same area also.

Also, our lodge is growing with many new young people coming in. Many because of a reletive that is already a member, but a few on thier own.

DDWW

[Vic Vega]

I don't know much about Freemasonry, but I do know two things:

1) They advertise open houses on the radio to attract new members to their lodges. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound like a particularly wise strategy for a shady, satanic organization bent on world domination.

2) I know two guys from work who are masons, including a guy who sits in the cube next to mine. If there are two people on the entire Earth less likely to be involved in any diabolical organization than these two, I have yet to meet them.

[Sledge]

A Mason working in a cubicle? No offense to other office workers, but that's not the sort of role I envisaged the dark masters of the world taking on.

[fitzgibbon]

A Mason working in a cubicle? No offense to other office workers, but that's not the sort of role I envisaged the dark masters of the world taking on.

Most people wouldn't picture one of the "dark masters of the world" sitting in his home office editing a WWII vet PSA but it happens. :)

Maybe I'm just a dark master of "It's a Small World". :D

[Sledge]

Kinda makes me wish I was a Mason. They must have such a laugh reading about all the stuff they're supposed to be doing. Actually, I wonder if the entertainment value is why people who are supposed to be secretly ruling the world don't speak out against those theories.

[DDWW]

Kinda makes me wish I was a Mason. They must have such a laugh reading about all the stuff they're supposed to be doing. Actually, I wonder if the entertainment value is why people who are supposed to be secretly ruling the world don't speak out against those theories.

We do.

One time at a gun show ran into a fellow selling books on all sorts of world wide conspiracies. NWO, Skull & Crossbones, etc. He was telling me (and showing me the books to back it up) that the Freemasons were behind the NWO and were taking over the world.

I then showed him my ring and said; “Oh, you mean these people?”

Then I thought about having a little fun with him and telling him I would have to report him to our “world wide master” but then thought….gun show….guns…..

Anyway;

Did tell him that Masons have been around for 400 – 3,000 years and if we were going to take over the world we have been pretty bad at it.

Also; John Wayne was a Mason.

[HeyLeroy]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=64460

C'mon, Checkmite! Didja forget this thread? :D

[grandthefttoaster]

Did tell him that Masons have been around for 400 – 3,000 years

3,000 years! Now who's the conspiracy theorist?

[Stellafane]

Do masons still do, you know, masonry? If so, could they fix the brick wall in front of my aunt's house? The mortar's coming all loose.

[fitzgibbon]

You need an operative Mason, not a speculative one. I could look at the wall and moralise on a quote if that'll help :D

[Slayhamlet]

Do masons still do, you know, masonry? If so, could they fix the brick wall in front of my aunt's house? The mortar's coming all loose.

Yep. And they have to do it for free. Hence the name 'Freemason'.

[Checkmite]

Indeed. You need a stonemason. Us Freemasons are the ones to call when you want to know how the brick wall in front of your aunt's house teaches a symbolic lesson about your conduct as a human being that should follow you throughout your life.

As for speaking out against the misconceptions about Masonry - well, we do that now and then. We really have the same problem as NASA confronts when it considers publishing an official debunking of the "moon hoax" theories, in that many feel writing a rebuttal might serve to legitimize the malignant claims. Still, there are some who do the work - masonicinfo.com is a very good site whose job is just that. "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Freemasons", as most in the "Complete Idiot's Guide" series, is a very good rundown of the order and it addresses some of the misconceptions as well.