Who are these people ?

[moorea34]

http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/humanremains.html

Do you know if these remains are those of pentagon workers or passengers ?

There is a big controversy in France about this point.

Thank you.

[CHF]

http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/humanremains.html

Do you know if these remains are those of pentagon workers or passengers ?

There is a big controversy in France about this point.

Why?

[tsig]

http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/humanremains.html

Do you know if these remains are those of pentagon workers or passengers ?

There is a big controversy in France about this point.

Thank you.

Ask the next ghoul you happen to see.

[triforcharity]

I highly doubt its the passengers.

Why would it matter either way??

[moorea34]

Why?

A french investigator said that one of this photo showed the remains of the co-pilot and there is some doubts about this.

[R.Mackey]

It is unlikely the copilot was found in recognizable form, being located near the front of the aircraft, but there was at least one nearly intact body found still strapped to a seat. So some remains of passengers did survive in more or less one piece.

This is a particularly grim subject, however. The only valid identification of victims is through DNA. There is a chart somewhere giving locations that differentiates between passengers and Pentagon occupants, but I've never seen one that identified them any further.

[T.A.M.]

I doubt it is the pilot or co-pilot. I suspect there was little more than "bits" of any who were in the front of the plane.

Can we now please let this thread die...

TAM

[Muadib]

guys, moorea isn't a truther... He made bastison ( a french 911debunking site)

During a french tv show, someone named Brisard said that this body was the co-pilote.

We tried to find some proof of this without success.

Is there any clear map with remains/pictures location vs ADN identification?

[Muadib]

I'm reading JREF since 2008...I decide to reply here because of the misunderstanding.

English is not easy for french people like us so...Moorea made a mistake when he forgot the tag.

Now, we just want to discuss this thread because I think this guy ( Brisard, search on dailymotion) made a mistake when he said that it was the co-pilote remains.

And we don t want Meyssan fan to take this mistake as a proof for inside job.

[Oliver]

There is a big controversy in France about this point.


Why does it matter if those remains are from passengers, Pentagon staff or from some other people? I can't see a big controversy about that question.

[ElMondoHummus]

Guys, we could be a bit more polite about pointing out the mistake with the tags here.

---------

Moorea34, those are photos used in the Moussaoui trial evidence (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution.html). It is not made clear if those are jet passengers or Pentagon staff, not by the USDC Eastern District Court. They merely identify them as "bodies found inside the Pentagon" and give no further information.

[Muadib]

Why does it matter if those remains are from passengers, Pentagon staff or from some other people? I can't see a big controversy about that question.

There was none...

But a french guy said on TV it was the co-pilote. We don t know if its true or not. So...we ask.

[Arus808]

well its his burden of proof to prove that it was . as it is, no "bodies" in the pentagon was identified specifically in any of the photos that were taken of the remains.


So your argument is, "Prove that this was the co-pilot"

[moorea34]

OK ElMondoHummus, thank you,

So the topic can be closed ;)

[Oliver]

There was none...

But a french guy said on TV it was the co-pilote. We don t know if its true or not. So...we ask.


Well, how does he know that it was the co-pilot then? :confused:

[Muadib]

Well, how does he know that it was the co-pilot then? :confused:

That's the point...

I think he made a mistake.

But we wanted to be sure because there is a map with remains location and maybe there is one with pictures location and ADN identification.

[Arus808]

That's the point...

I think he made a mistake.

But we wanted to be sure because there is a map with remains location and maybe there is one with pictures location and ADN identification.


Nope. the Map only listed where the remains were found and the DNA that identified them. No photographs to go with those identified, more like to the size of remains found

[AJM8125]

There was none...

But a french guy said on TV it was the co-pilote. We don t know if its true or not. So...we ask.

You're not talking about this idiot, are you?

(NSFW- Some subtitled profanity)

xI5l55p2s-o&feature=youtube_gdata

It's all just a joke to him, which I find more repugnant than anything else.

[LashL]

moorea:

This drawing (http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/perdalis/barbdna_lge.jpg) sets out the locations at which DNA of the passengers, pilots, and Pentagon workers was located.

Also, during the National Geographic show that aired around the end of August, there was discussion about a diagram that indicated the locations in which the DNA of the pilots was found, and that was near the entry point where the plane hit the building. It is highly, highly unlikely that those photos depict the first officer.

Hope that helps.

[Muadib]

You're not talking about this idiot, are you?

(NSFW- Some subtitled profanity)

xI5l55p2s-o&feature=youtube_gdata

It's all just a joke to him, which I find more repugnant than anything else.

Hahaha, no i'm not.

This guy is stupid and there is no need to debunk it.

I'm talking about a recent french tv-show ( "l'objet du scandale") where some debunkers ( including the one who said something about the co-pilot (Brisard) and Moorea (J. Quirant)) explained how stupid conspiracy theory were.

The video is on dailymotion ( search "objet du scandale 11 septembre").

It's just annoying that this guy made a mistake because there is no need to identify remains picture when we have ADN...

[moorea34]

Well, how does he know that it was the co-pilot then? :confused:

He was with families during the indentification of remains...

So he is a good source, but it seems he has done a mistake in this case... :o


And truther slander him.. :mad:

[ElMondoHummus]

He was with families during the indentification of remains...

So he is a good source, but it seems he has done a mistake in this case... :o


And truther slander him.. :mad:

Ok, so there's a person who ID'd one of those victims, and he has reason to believe the source of that identification is correct. All right. If he could provide some sort of supporting evidence that the family did indeed make that identification, then he's got an argument. It's just that our argument is that it's not possible to tell given the information we have on hand. All I know is where those images came from. There may indeed be more information about them that hasn't been released, but it happens to be out of our reach at the moment.

I guess if someone was really curious, they could look up the co-pilot's name and FOIA the relevant county authorities for information about him. I have to admit, though, I'm reluctant to do this myself; from my point of view, we know enough about the event to where we can afford to spare the involved family grief by avoiding putting our noses into the details that are known to the coroner and rescue/recovery people.

As far as the truthers go, screw them. It doesn't matter whether a particular image is of a particular individual or not; the fact remains that the copilot's airline puts him in the jet, the airport records put the jet at Dulles, radar traces the path of the jet, and the FDR, CVRs, and voice phone calls establish the broad sequence of events that occurred (albeit not in excruciating detail; that doesn't matter, though, since it gives us the general outlines). Truthers are going to need something above and beyond mere criticism of one individual's identification of a victim in a photo to overturn a narrative so strongly supported.

[Cuddles]

Please keep on topic.

[Sabrina]

Wait, when he says it's the copilot, are we talking about the ACTUAL copilot? Or whoever was sitting up there with the idjit who hijacked the plane in the first place? As I recall, there were two "pilot" hijackers on Flight 77, so it's possible that one of those poor victims is the original, American copilot, who IIRC was mercifully killed prior to the plane hitting the Pentagon and dragged out of the cockpit. The likelihood of it being either of the hijackers is minimal, yes, but there is a possibility that at least some of the body of the original copilot survived the crash and was discovered in the Pentagon. May I ask which copilot these French debunkers were referring to, exactly?

[Travis]

Looks like the body is resting on the tire from the plane. If it's the forward landing gear that might be important.

[jaydeehess]

Guys, we could be a bit more polite about pointing out the mistake with the tags here.

---------

Moorea34, those are photos used in the Moussaoui trial evidence (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution.html). It is not made clear if those are jet passengers or Pentagon staff, not by the USDC Eastern District Court. They merely identify them as "bodies found inside the Pentagon" and give no further information.

OK ElMondoHummus, thank you,

So the topic can be closed ;)

I am not sure you would ever be able to confirm the identity of any of the people in the photos.

This is a privacy matter and the relatives of the deceased likely do not want the name of the person attached to the grisley photograph of their body displayed for all to see and comment upon on the internet.

Perhaps such sensibilities are different in Europe than in N.America

[ElMondoHummus]

I am not sure you would ever be able to confirm the identity of any of the people in the photos.

This is a privacy matter and the relatives of the deceased likely do not want the name of the person attached to the grisley photograph of their body displayed for all to see and comment upon on the internet.

Perhaps such sensibilities are different in Europe than in N.America

I don't know. Personally, I'd rather that identification of individuals killed, then photographed in the Pentagon rubble were shielded for privacy's sake - I'm a damn firm believer in preserving privacy. But given how public the events of 9/11 is, I'm not sure such information can really be locked up for such a long time. I'd need a legal expert (nudges JHunter to bow with me 3 times towards Toronto*) to tell me how the need for individual privacy would be weighed against the public's access to information. I simply don't know. But my point is that I don't know if the legalities are what are standing in the way of matching individual victims to photographs or not, hence my invocation of the Diety of Legaltainment.


* We ought to make a tag for that. :D