hypnosis & stage hypnosis

[xray45]

What is everyones view on hypnosis being used to help or cure with phobias, obsessive compulsive disorders, weight loss ect.? I have heard allot of people that say it works but I am a little skeptical.
I did go to one of those shows were the hypnotist makes you funny things on stage like cluck like a chicken when a bell rings. He picked a friend of mine for 20 some years and he got hypnotised. IHe claims nothing was setup before hand and I really have no reason to doubt him but I have a hard time beliving this works or worked on him.
Any thought would be great

[Suezoled]

If people were so simple to "cure" it would have been officially utilized long ago.

[epepke]

Originally posted by xray45
What is everyones view on hypnosis being used to help or cure with phobias, obsessive compulsive disorders, weight loss ect.? I have heard allot of people that say it works but I am a little skeptical.
I did go to one of those shows were the hypnotist makes you funny things on stage like cluck like a chicken when a bell rings. He picked a friend of mine for 20 some years and he got hypnotised. IHe claims nothing was setup before hand and I really have no reason to doubt him but I have a hard time beliving this works or worked on him.
Any thought would be great

I've found self-hypnosis useful in overcoming my own shyness and anxiety. There's nothing magical about it; it just relaxes one and makes it easier to feel emotions other than worry, guilt, and anxiety.

[Rolfe]

I agree with Epepke. I went to a hypnotherapist and found it excellent as a way of really forcing me to do the relaxation exercises everyone was telling me to do. I think it can be very good for anxiety.

But some of the rest of what the woman said she could do (like take away smokers' cravings) sounded very suspect. I happened to be speaking to a friend at a party a couple of weeks ago, who is training to be a psychiatric nurse, and she said she was familiar with studies which showed that beyond the relaxation/anti-anxiety effects it was essentially woo-woo.

Rolfe.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Rolfe
....studies which showed that beyond the relaxation/anti-anxiety effects it was essentially woo-woo.
True, you could search Quackwatch or google the whole topic.
There seems to be documentation for its effect in reducing the report of pain, but that could be a combination of relaxation and the placebo effect.

[Suezoled]

I still think if hypnotherapy could be used so easily and in such an encompassing manner that it could control fears and bad habits, it would be covered in insurance.

[wayrad]

I once met a guy who said he had been hypnotized in the hospital as part of his treatment for severe burn injuries. Apparently it helped some, for whatever reasons.

[epepke]

Originally posted by Suezoled
I still think if hypnotherapy could be used so easily and in such an encompassing manner that it could control fears and bad habits, it would be covered in insurance.

Have you noticed how poorly insurance deals with any mental disorders?

Anyway, I don't know whatever hypnotherapy, whatever that is, may be good for, let alone how "encompassing" it might be. I just know that hypnosis is good for relaxation and anxiety reduction. So, for that matter, is beer, but you don't see insurance companies paying for beer, either.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by epepke


Have you noticed how poorly insurance deals with any mental disorders?

(snipped)

Blaming the insurance company for dealing poorly with mental disorders is like blaming the waitress for the chef's poor meal preparation. Employers are the ones who decide what benefits an employee will receive. For independent policies, people can choose what plans they want to receive, and even buy riders each renewable contract season. My own company offers and supports: inpatient and outpatient mental health treatments, including and not limited to emergencies, neuropyschological evaluation, medications, electro-shock therapy, rehabilitation for substance abuse, and even has an employee dedicated mental health help line.

Some employers, however, elect not to give their employees any mental health benefits.

I'm trying to say if hypnotherapy were so excellent and proven, don't you think a company like mine would be all over it to control and regulate this treatment? But they don't; much like homeopathy treatments, it's not proven and is, at best, considered experimental, which my company will not cover.

I was more trying to address the aspects that deal with hypnotisms as a cure for smoking, etc.

[Ed]

So, is it helpful for smoking. I'm thinking of trying it.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Ed
So, is it helpful for smoking. I'm thinking of trying it.

Well if you do, keep notes. I want to see how this turns out, please?

[epepke]

Originally posted by Suezoled
Blaming the insurance company for dealing poorly with mental disorders is like blaming the waitress for the chef's poor meal preparation.

Blame, schmame. I'm pointing out a fact. I don't give a wet slap who's to blame.

I'm trying to say if hypnotherapy were so excellent and proven, don't you think a company like mine would be all over it to control and regulate this treatment?

No, I don't. You're the one apparently claiming that hypnosis either has to be supercalifragelisticexpialidocious or else it's entirely useless.

But they don't; much like homeopathy treatments, it's not proven and is, at best, considered experimental, which my company will not cover.

I'm sure you're very proud of your company and how they're totally rational. Tell me, do they reimburse for chiropractic? With the subluxations of the nerves and the no need for virual innoculations and the coffee enemas for cancer and all that?

I was more trying to address the aspects that deal with hypnotisms as a cure for smoking, etc.

Well, then, stop arguing with people who do not claim that it is a cure for smoking, OK?

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Ed
So, is it helpful for smoking. I'm thinking of trying it. That was the bit my psychiatric nurse friend had been shown to be total BS. She also said that the one thing the studies did show was that the harder you try to give up the more likely you are to succeed, and the rest was mostly decoration.

Rolfe.

[Nucular]

When I was an assistant psychologist, I used to do relaxation with a chronic pain group. One of the protocols I had a go at was 'group hypnosis', a relaxation programme which relied on hypnotic principles.

I fought back the urge to replace "now you're feeling totally relaxed" with "when I say 'bananas' you will think you're a chicken", but, had my self-control failed, I very much doubt whether that would have had any effect whatsoever.

The 'contract' between me and the group was that we were doing this to help them relax; in other 'hypnotic' situations, the contract is different.

My opinion (though I'm no expert in hypnosis itself) is that it all relies on, basically, implicit agreement between hypnotist and client[s] as to the aims of a session, and (especially regarding stage hypnosis), conforming, compliance, and the wish to please a perceived authority figure.

So to apply this to smoking cessation... yes, it might help at least in the short term. But it relies on your beliefs regarding hypnosis and the hypnotist, and your willingness to comply.

As with most pseudoscientific practitioners, hypnotherapists tend not to make any kind of follow-up assessment, so I'd be interested to see one with verifiable data as to any long-term effect. You could probably compare it to thought-field therapy or something in terms of short-term efficacy in a selected sample, expectation-reliant mechanism, mumbo-jumboistics, and so forth.

So basically, if you want hypnotherapy to stop smoking, don't read this thread and your expectations won't be damaged... d'oh!

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by epepke


Blame, schmame. I'm pointing out a fact. I don't give a wet slap who's to blame.



No, I don't. You're the one apparently claiming that hypnosis either has to be supercalifragelisticexpialidocious or else it's entirely useless.



I'm sure you're very proud of your company and how they're totally rational. Tell me, do they reimburse for chiropractic? With the subluxations of the nerves and the no need for virual innoculations and the coffee enemas for cancer and all that?



Well, then, stop arguing with people who do not claim that it is a cure for smoking, OK?

And which companies treat mental health so poorly?
And yes, I am saying hypnosis has to do what is claims it does or else it's just as bad as chiropractic claims.
As for wether or not chiropractic is covered by my company, it is, and it is an aspect I'm not proud of. However, it is a state mandate my company is required to offer potential clients, and so we do.
....people are arguing it's a cure for smoking.

[Ed]

Originally posted by Nucular
So basically, if you want hypnotherapy to stop smoking, don't read this thread and your expectations won't be damaged... d'oh!

Unfortunately, my expectations are worse.

Edit: Though my wife would like to try it too. It might be interesting if I talked it up (said I did some research, etc) and my information suggests that it is effective. Then I might report back our relative success.

[Suezoled]

Best luck to you anyway Ed!

(reminder: please do keep us updated....) :)

...ok, I guess Epepke was right... there really was no arguement that hypnosis stops smoking. Sorry about that.

[Mercutio]

I have done group hypnosis demos for my big intro classes. We do a variation of the Harvard group test of hypnotic suggestability; it is basically a progressive relaxation, with some suggestion thrown in as you go along. On a good day, out of nearly 200 students, I'll get only 10-20 % to really go under. (hands raising as if floating, feeling a fly walking across their nose, hearing music, etc.) With the tougher things, fewer students report experiencing them--a handful will, in response to suggestion, feel that they are on a sunny beach--they can smell the sea, hear the waves, feel the sun...and they report really feeling like they are there (one a few years back had her face flushed and warm on the side that the sun was shining...). Very rarely I can get negative hallucinations (e.g., when you open your eyes, you will see everything but me. I will be invisible--you will see the papers in my hand, but not me...), which really freaks out the people who experience it.

Of course, it is impossible for me to know that they were not faking, but if they were, they were damned good...

Still, the vast majority experienced very little in the way of suggested effects, so this may be a case of "if you are one of the lucky few, it could help".

[epepke]

Originally posted by Suezoled
And yes, I am saying hypnosis has to do what is claims it does or else it's just as bad as chiropractic claims.

I made an effort to distinguish hypnosis as a thing unto itself from hypnotherapy. It would be like "massage" versus "chiropractic." Hypnosis, like massage, is a thing to do: it may or may not have whatever benefits. Hypnotherapy, on the other hand, may be like chiropractic, with its own theory and claimed benefits. I don't know. I have no experience with it. I have experience with hypnosis, and I can say that it is useful for relaxation in the same way that I can say that dropping a bowling ball on your foot from a great height usually hurts.

[/b]....people are arguing it's a cure for smoking. [/B]

Good that you've backed off on that. But, for what it's worth, my mother went to a hypnotist 30 years ago for smoking cessation. She taught me how to hypnotize myself, which I find useful. However, she still smokes. So, from pure anecdotal evidence, it doesn't seem to be so hot.

[alibaba]

Originally posted by Suezoled
If people were so simple to "cure" it would have been officially utilized long ago.

Not if there are many poeple like you in control :p

[alibaba]

Originally posted by Suezoled
I still think if hypnotherapy could be used so easily and in such an encompassing manner that it could control fears and bad habits, it would be covered in insurance.

... my insurance covers it.

[alibaba]

Originally posted by Rolfe
That was the bit my psychiatric nurse friend had been shown to be total BS. She also said that the one thing the studies did show was that the harder you try to give up the more likely you are to succeed, and the rest was mostly decoration.

Rolfe.

Well, I can't help you if you dont want to help yourself. I can offer you the prescribtion, but it is your responsibility to have the medicin.

[alibaba]

Originally posted by Ed


Unfortunately, my expectations are worse.

Edit: Though my wife would like to try it too. It might be interesting if I talked it up (said I did some research, etc) and my information suggests that it is effective. Then I might report back our relative success.

Tell me, what medication on earth doesn't work through Placebo effect? I've read a study for well respected heart medicine, cough med... etc that were proven as good as placibo. Hypnosis might be a way to talk to the "supernatural Placebo power" that you have in order to cure you.

If you are ask your doctor to give you a prescribtion headache drug. And your sole purpose is to prove that the drug doesn't help, the drug will never work, and no one can prove it didn't.

[alibaba]

Originally posted by Suezoled
If people were so simple to "cure" it would have been officially utilized long ago.

Not if there are many poeple like you in control :p

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by epepke


Good that you've backed off on that. But, for what it's worth, my mother went to a hypnotist 30 years ago for smoking cessation. She taught me how to hypnotize myself, which I find useful. However, she still smokes. So, from pure anecdotal evidence, it doesn't seem to be so hot.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong.

(Still not convinced about its effectiveness in stopping problems more serious than mild anxiety, though. Wait, I already said that. Nevermind.)

[roger]

Originally posted by alibaba
Tell me, what medication on earth doesn't work through Placebo effect?Um, penicillin. hydrocortisone. Synthroid. caffene. Morphine. phenytoin. etc times a million.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by alibaba
Tell me, what medication on earth doesn't work through Placebo effect?

Synvisc. Hyalgen. Synagis. Protropin. Wellbutrin. Codeine. Tylenol. Aspirin. Ketamine. Ara-c. Adriamycin.

In this order: Osteoarthritis pain. Osteoarthritis pain. Infectious disease in premature babies. Synthetic growth hormone. Non-SSRI (see, I can be taught!). Pain reliever (prescription). Pain reliever (Over the counter). Anaesthetic. Chemotherapy medication. Chemotherapy medication.

[Suezoled]

Oh well. Roger is one step ahead of me. :)

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Skeptics hypnotism does not exist and I would hate see rational skeptics fall for this quackery like many have fallen for dreaming!

[VampKira]

I'll admit that I once paid $40 to go to a group hypnotherapy session to help me quit smoking. I was desperate. During the hypnosis, I kept thinking to myself that I didn't feel hypnotized. What does being hypnotized feel like? I hadn't a clue.

I left the session and got into my car and looked down at my half full pack of Marlboro's. I felt no desire to smoke one, (I was a two pack a day smoker) I felt no desire to smoke one as he had "predicted" for about a day and a half. But one thing I must confess.....I did not get rid of my cigarettes immeadiately after the session as he said we all must. I looked at them quite often and thought to myself, "There is no way he hypnotized me into never want to smoke one again after 20 or so years of a full blown addiction."

As I said, after about a day and a half, I lit up, and continue to smoke much to my disapointment.

I tell this to make no point, I tell it only because you asked. I do not think it worked....obviously, but WHY do I not think it worked. I dunno that either. I have a lot of "What if's" running around in my brain.

What if: (all of the below and more)
I would have thrown my cigs away?
I had truly believed that it was going to work?
I had not been so sure that I was destined to be a smoker?
My desire to quit were stronger?

Take from it what you will. Would I try it again? I don't know. If A doctor told me I had to quit tomorrow or I would surely die in a week, I'd probably try anything. You know?

Hope it was ok for a newbie just to jump on in here. I have been reading for a few weeks now, and I am very.....what's the word....intrugued? (sp) so I decided to register.

HUGE thanks to Hal for all of his help, and as he probably has suspected by now...Yes...I'm a blonde. *smiles*

--Vampy
__________________________________________________ __

"There's a sucker born every minute at Transylvania Maternity Hospital."
__________________________________________________ __

[William H.]

This site (http://www.hypnosisinmedia.com/Advertising/Advertisements/) has a great collection of old hypnosis ads from the back of old magazines and comic books. I'd like to get one of the the "hypno-coins" just for the fun of it.

[Suggestologist]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

True, you could search Quackwatch or google the whole topic.
There seems to be documentation for its effect in reducing the report of pain, but that could be a combination of relaxation and the placebo effect.

As I already demonstrated in a prior thread; you are incorrect. You took the method of a study out of its context.

[Suggestologist]

Originally posted by Suezoled
I'm trying to say if hypnotherapy were so excellent and proven, don't you think a company like mine would be all over it to control and regulate this treatment? But they don't; much like homeopathy treatments, it's not proven and is, at best, considered experimental, which my company will not cover.


Wrong. It is proven. Look up the varous hypnosis journals.


I was more trying to address the aspects that deal with hypnotisms as a cure for smoking, etc.

Hypnotists often cure smoking by linking it to a negative feeling.

[Suggestologist]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Still, the vast majority experienced very little in the way of suggested effects, so this may be a case of "if you are one of the lucky few, it could help". [/B]

It may also be the case that for some things individualization works better than doing those things in a group.

[Suggestologist]

Originally posted by VampKira
I'll admit that I once paid $40 to go to a group hypnotherapy session to help me quit smoking. I was desperate. During the hypnosis, I kept thinking to myself that I didn't feel hypnotized. What does being hypnotized feel like? I hadn't a clue.


With classical hypnosis, for many people, it feels like being engrossed in a movie, or the feeling right before you wake up in the morning. If your hypnotist had not done enough preliminary work for you to know that (especially with a group, where he was not going to be able to adjust for each individual's reactions), then I have big doubts about his training.

You demonstrated a classic form of resistance to being hypnotized; which is nearly impossible to work with in a group context unless the hypnotist deems to treat everyone as if they were all experiencing the same form of resistance; and yours is the particular type they choose.

In addition, hypnotherapy can work in a single session; but more often, you need 3 or more sessions to be sure that you've resolved or integrated a particular problem. I think most posters here believe in the myth of the myth of single-session cures for all people and all problems with hypnosis.

I'll just outline what a hypnotist, in my opinion, should suggest in the context of smoking stops: Take the motor set of smoking: upon seeing a cigarrette, this involves an automatic reaching toward the cigarette, picking it up, getting the lighter or matches with either the same or the other hand, positioning the lighter adjacent to the cigarrette, lighting it, puffing on it, etc. Now we need to attach to the trigger and starting portion of this motor set, a negative feeling.

So, recall a negative feeling such as nausea or trepidation, hesitation. Recall a specific time, a specific incident where you felt this. In your minds' eyes, see what you saw at the time, hear what you heard at the time, feel what you felt at the time - both internally and with the skin, what you smell and taste, what you are saying to yourself in your head, etc. It's important here to make sure that the person is actually recalling all of these vividly, floridly. This works better when individualized.

Ask the client "Are you willing to feel this (negative way) everytime you begin to reach for a cigarette?" Then have her visualize (fantasize) in her mind's eye, reaching for a cigarrette and feeling that way and rejecting the cigarette. Several times. In several contexts: at home, at a club, at a party, in the car, someone offers her one, etc.

Bring her back to full consciousness.

Then, put a real cigarette next to them and tell her to reach for it. In other words, check to see if she actually does feel the negative sensations when she engages the motor set.

There are other ways to do it. But I, personally, like this type of method.

I ask this: Surgeons can now perform operations from thousands of miles away using robots. The robot mimics what the doctor does with their hands. Would it make sense to do 100 heart surgeries simultaneously, from the same set of hand movements of a single doctor? Or does it make more sense to individuallize things a bit? It is much the same with hypnosis. Each person will react differently to suggestions, each will provide a different level and type of resistance. Though sometimes the difference is negligible; it's often more effective to treat people individually unless they're only looking for relaxation and/or guided fantasy.

[Suggestologist]

Originally posted by xray45
What is everyones view on hypnosis being used to help or cure with phobias, obsessive compulsive disorders, weight loss ect.?

Well, I was just looking through "Psychological Assessment", a journal published by the American Psychological Association. The March, 1995 issue on p.49 has an interesting study regarding hypnotizability scales, titled: "The Computer-Assisted Hypnosis Scale: Standardization and Norming of a Computer-Administered Measure of Hypnotic Ability"

Part of the introduction contains this summary of recent research:

"Several recent studies have found that hypnotic susceptibility scores predict outcome in smoking cessation programs that include a hypnosis component (Baer, Carey, & Meminger, 1986; A.F. Barabasz, Baer, Sheehan, & M. Barabasz, 1986; Holroyd, 1991; Spiegel, 1990). Similar findings have been obtained in weight control programs (Levitt, 1993), pain management programs (Stam, McGrath, Brooke, & Cosier, 1986; van Dyck, Zitman, Linssen, & Spinhoven, 1991), and in the treatment of asthma and skin disorders (Wadden & Anderton, 1982). Furthermore, diagnosis of posttraumatic stress disorder and dissociative disorders has been informed by careful assessment of hypnotizability in light of its likely contribution to the formation and maintenance of these symptom clusters (D. Spiegel, Hunt, & Dondershine, 1988)."

In my opinion, Hypnotic Ability, like any skill, can be developed by practically anyone.