BBC News and Propaganda

[Especially]

I don't like the BBC.

'Why' ?

Well, here in England our nation (which has a long history) is today carved up in to 9 administrative regions of a new empire. Called the 'European Union'. (You may have heard of the 'EU'). But very few people know about the 9 administrative regions of the 'new regime' which comes next year. Why, they already have offices. Telephones, computers, and staff.

Well, 'so what ?' you may say.

Well, the fact is, NOBODY IN BRITAIN HAS VOTED FOR POLITICAL UNION WITH THE EU. NOBODY.

The closest we came was a few years ago when the Prime Minister promised he would allow the people of Britain a vote on the issue. Decent of him, don't you think ? (Especially since the PEOPLE have the sovereignty of this nation).

But the promise came and it went. They changed their minds.

And, today, NOT A SINGLE PARTY IN THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT WANTS TO GIVE THE BRITISH PEOPLE A VOTE ON EU POLITICAL UNION. Ask the leader of the opposition party. No, they don't want a vote to be given to the British people also. Nobody does at Westminster.

Which is strange. Don't you think ?

Now, turning to the BBC. You might expect this small matter of our national invasion to dominate the British news. The BBC to be screaming at the politicians to GIVE US A VOTE ON EU POLITICAL UNION !

But no ! Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Letters to the BBC go without answer. The BBC come on television and they are talking about the EU. Always positively. As if it's just a formality.

And this makes me mad.

70% of the British people WANT a vote on this issue.

But the BBC continues, day after day, dumbing down the population. Hoping we go to sleep on the takeover of our nation. By the EU Empire. Why, they even want to close down Parliament. And to replace the laws of England with their own 'laws'. This to happen in the next 7 months.

Kind of strange, yes ?

Don't watch the BBC. They are a bunch of actors.

[Sledge]

Dude, the BBC are supposed to report news, not make it. What do you want them to do? Get Jeremy Clarkson to armour up a Volvo estate and charge 10 Downing Street?

Besides, you're not British, so please stop pretending you are. Oh, and learn the difference between "England" and "Britain."

[Especially]

Dude, the BBC are supposed to report news, not make it. What do you want them to do? Get Jeremy Clarkson to armour up a Volvo estate and charge 10 Downing Street?

Besides, you're not British, so please stop pretending you are. Oh, and learn the difference between "England" and "Britain."

Is it news if the sovereignty of this nation has been surrendered to a foreign power without any vote by the people of this nation ?

I mean, what IS news ?

:):)

p.s. I am not a dude.

[PB2007]

But then according to you you don't pay for a TV license so you shouldn't be watching BBC anyway.

[Careyp74]

I don't like the BBC.

'Why' ?

Well, here in England our nation (which has a long history) is today carved up in to 9 administrative regions of a new empire. Called the 'European Union'. (You may have heard of the 'EU'). But very few people know about the 9 administrative regions of the 'new regime' which comes next year. Why, they already have offices. Telephones, computers, and staff.

Well, 'so what ?' you may say.

Well, the fact is, NOBODY IN BRITAIN HAS VOTED FOR POLITICAL UNION WITH THE EU. NOBODY.

The closest we came was a few years ago when the Prime Minister promised he would allow the people of Britain a vote on the issue. Decent of him, don't you think ? (Especially since the PEOPLE have the sovereignty of this nation).

But the promise came and it went. They changed their minds.

And, today, NOT A SINGLE PARTY IN THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT WANTS TO GIVE THE BRITISH PEOPLE A VOTE ON EU POLITICAL UNION. Ask the leader of the opposition party. No, they don't want a vote to be given to the British people also. Nobody does at Westminster.

Which is strange. Don't you think ?

Now, turning to the BBC. You might expect this small matter of our national invasion to dominate the British news. The BBC to be screaming at the politicians to GIVE US A VOTE ON EU POLITICAL UNION !

But no ! Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Letters to the BBC go without answer. The BBC come on television and they are talking about the EU. Always positively. As if it's just a formality.

And this makes me mad.

70% of the British people WANT a vote on this issue.

But the BBC continues, day after day, dumbing down the population. Hoping we go to sleep on the takeover of our nation. By the EU Empire. Why, they even want to close down Parliament. And to replace the laws of England with their own 'laws'. This to happen in the next 7 months.

Kind of strange, yes ?

Don't watch the BBC. They are a bunch of actors.

Sounds like you guys are ready for a revolt over there. I wouldn't blame your troubles on the BBC, they are looking to survive, and collectively could care less if the people find them lacking, it is a monopoly of the media.

[Especially]

:) You better believe it.

The British BS Corporation.

[Sledge]

Is it news if the sovereignty of this nation has been surrendered to a foreign power without any vote by the people of this nation ?

I mean, what IS news ?

:):)

p.s. I am not a dude.

So what are you saying the BBC should be reporting on? What issue have they not covered?

[Audible Click]

You've claimed to have no telly so how are you watching the BBC?

[Sledge]

BBC website, one would presume. Althought there is the question of why someone so opposed to the BBC would be using their website.

[Audible Click]

BBC website, one would presume. Althought there is the question of why someone so opposed to the BBC would be using their website.

I hadn't thought of that but you're probably right. As for why he would watch it, who knows? Especially seems to be a bundle of self inflicted contradictions.

[Sledge]

Maybe he's just one of those weird people who enjoy being upset. The sort who phone in to complain that they've listened to a radio show every day for months and they think it's RUBBISH. God, I love those people.

[garethdjb]

And, today, NOT A SINGLE PARTY IN THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT WANTS TO GIVE THE BRITISH PEOPLE A VOTE ON EU POLITICAL UNION. Ask the leader of the opposition party. No, they don't want a vote to be given to the British people also. Nobody does at Westminster.



The Conservative party is committed to a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, provided that the treaty hasn't been ratified by the time of the next General Election. In the case where the treaty has been ratified their position is a bit more difficult to nail down. BBC news 24 has been trying to get a clarification from leading Tories on their position on Europe all day today. Maybe you are watching CBBC?

[Especially]

BBC website, one would presume. Althought there is the question of why someone so opposed to the BBC would be using their website.

First of all, the BBC is not like other organisations. Is it ? It was founded under Royal Charter and is (I quote) a 'public service broadcaster'. That's fact number 1.

Fact number 2.

England (indeed, Britain) is supposed to be a democracy.

Fact number 3.

The British People have had NO Referendum (no vote) on EU political integration

Fact number 4

This scam is not going to work. The British people will DEMAND a vote on this issue in the next weeks and months. It will be a NATIONAL demand.

You may keep your BBC. British ******** Corporation.

[PB2007]

But if you don't use the BBC what do you care?

The British people will DEMAND a vote on this issue in the next weeks and months. It will be a NATIONAL demand.

Only the front pages of the "Red Tops" think this. Most people don't care.

[Especially]

But if you don't use the BBC what do you care?


If you don't have friends with burglars or robbers why do you care about burglary and robbery ?

[MG1962]

Fact number 2.

England (indeed, Britain) is supposed to be a democracy.


Could you show me were it says that in your constitution

[Especially]

But if you don't use the BBC what do you care?



Only the front pages of the "Red Tops" think this. Most people don't care.

Edited to remove personal remarks.

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

[Especially]

[QUOTE=MG1962;5172664]Could you show me were it says that in your constitution[/QUOTE

I can show you where the government of this nation was democratically elected. Is that good enough ?

[BillC]

Sledge said in post #2 that you were not British. You quoted him/her doing so; however, you did not respond.

Are you British?

[Darat]

Is it news if the sovereignty of this nation has been surrendered to a foreign power without any vote by the people of this nation ?

I mean, what IS news ?

:):)

p.s. I am not a dude.

You may be a bit too young to remember it but the population of the UK did vote to join....

[Especially]

You may be a bit too young to remember it but the population of the UK did vote to join....

Darat,

Breach of Rule 12 removed.

The EU was not joined by the British people. The EEC was joined. A completely different entity.

Secondly, a Referendum was promised by the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

Thirdly, the sovereignty of this nation cannot be given away, ceded, or transfered under the Constitution of this nation.

Fourthly, the people of this nation will, within weeks or months at most have a NATIONAL PROTEST against this nonsense.

How does that suit you ?

Britain did not make the sacrifices of two world wars only to be invaded and occupied by non-democratic fascists of the EU Empire whom we have never given our sovereignty to.

DAMN THE EU ! WE WILL KEEP OUR LAWS, OUR NATION, OUR NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY !

[Sledge]

But if you don't use the BBC what do you care?For that matter, how does he know what it does and doesn't cover on its news services? As far as I can tell, Especially either hates the BBC but for some bizarre reason keeps watching its output, or he doesn't watch the BBC and has no idea what it covers on its news broadcasts. I wonder which it is, and if we'll ever get a straight answer from him?*


*No, we won't.

[Especially]

For that matter, how does he know what it does and doesn't cover on its news services? As far as I can tell, Especially either hates the BBC but for some bizarre reason keeps watching its output, or he doesn't watch the BBC and has no idea what it covers on its news broadcasts. I wonder which it is, and if we'll ever get a straight answer from him?*


*No, we won't.

The BBC is a tool of the New World Order, plain and simple. It's a parasite. A shill channel who do NOT serve the British public. A spin merchant.

Don't watch it. It's hocus pocus.

[Sledge]

I should put myself forwards for the MDC. Was that, or was that not, a flawless prediction?

[stateofgrace]

The BBC (http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?uri=%2F&scope=all&go=toolbar&q=vote+on+eu) never mentions it. (http://search.bbc.co.uk/search?uri=%2F&scope=all&go=toolbar&q=vote+on+eu)

:rolleyes:

[Especially]

The BBC is a pile of horse manure. It can't even publish its accounts. It can't tell us how much its occultist managers and comperes are paid. Which, for a PUBLICLY FUNDED CORPORATION is a nonsense.

[carlitos]

But if we got rid of the BBC, what would African cab drivers in the USA listen to for news?

[brodski]

The nine government office regions of England are not new (they have been in place since the mid 1990's) and are an entirely domestic initiative and have the square root of sod all to do with the EU- which, by the way, is not an empire. Is three anything else which you would like to be wrong about today?

[Especially]

The nine government office regions of England are not new (they have been in place since the mid 1990's) and are an entirely domestic initiative and have the square root of sod all to do with the EU- which, by the way, is not an empire. Is three anything else which you would like to be wrong about today?

That's right. They are not new. They are, however, about to take over the day to day government of this nation. Soon. Without any mandate from we, the people of this nation, who have NEVER given any mandate for political union.

Which is why there is coming a MASSIVE NATIONAL PROTEST FOR AN EU REFERENDUM IN THIS COUNTRY. YOU WAIT AND SEE !

[Architect]

The BBC is a pile of horse manure. It can't even publish its accounts. It can't tell us how much its occultist managers and comperes are paid. Which, for a PUBLICLY FUNDED CORPORATION is a nonsense.

Evidence?

Incidentally, this appears to be yet another thread where you don;t understand the difference between "England" and the "UK". It doesn't exactly encourage us to believe in your research or analysis, I can tell you.

[Especially]

But if we got rid of the BBC, what would African cab drivers in the USA listen to for news?

LOL !! Great point Carlitos !

[Darat]

Under the UK constitution what is required of the government before they can enter into a treaty?

[Lothian]

Well, here in England our nationWhat do you mean 'our' You are American and I am Scottish.

[Especially]

Evidence?

Incidentally, this appears to be yet another thread where you don;t understand the difference between "England" and the "UK". It doesn't exactly encourage us to believe in your research or analysis, I can tell you.

The person who doesn't understand the difference between England and the UK is YOU.

England is a nation.

The United Kingdom is NOT a nation.

That's step 1

If you want some more lessons please ask. I will try not to go too quick for you.

[Especially]

What do you mean 'our' You are American and I am Scottish.

Well, no, I am more Scots than you are American.

[Architect]

1. Define nation.

2. If not a nation, then what is the UK?

[Sledge]

Evidence?
I'll second that request. Occultist? This should be a good 'un.

[Lothian]

Well, no, I am more Scots than you are American.I am sure you are. Many Americans have Scottish ancestry.

[Architect]

I'll second that request. Occultist? This should be a good 'un.

I reckon we're going for some solid Stundie type material here. The definition of the UK is going to be interesting.

[brodski]

That's right. They are not new. They are, however, about to take over the day to day government of this nation. no, they are not- I have worked extensively with then GORs for a number of years, and continue to do so- from this direct personal knowledge I can say that you are quite, quite wrong about all of this.

Which is why there is coming a MASSIVE NATIONAL PROTEST FOR AN EU REFERENDUM IN THIS COUNTRY. YOU WAIT AND SEE !

The GORs have absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

[Especially]

1. Define nation.

2. If not a nation, then what is the UK?


A nation is an entity governed by its own laws. Having its own sovereignty. And, in the case of England, supported by over 1,000 years of documented history.

The United Kingdom is a feudal construct, a union, presided over by an unelected feudal dynasty who invaded and killed many Americans who were founding their own nation, the United States of America.

[Sledge]

I've never met a single Brit who bangs on about the American Revolution as much as Especially. Hell, I don't think most Americans bang on about it that much.

[twinstead]

Especially, you appear to relish making up your own definitions for things and attempting to shove them down other's throats. You'll have to forgive me if I'll take the things some guy says on an internet forum with a grain of salt and get a second opinion.

[sleepy_lioness]

The GOs (Government Offices in the Regions) take over English government?!

PMSL

They can't go for a piss without a direction from Whitehall.

[Audible Click]

A nation is an entity governed by its own laws. Having its own sovereignty. And, in the case of England, supported by over 1,000 years of documented history.

The United Kingdom is a feudal construct, a union, presided over by an unelected feudal dynasty who invaded and killed many Americans who were founding their own nation, the United States of America.

In the other, now moderated, thread you claimed that the Kings of England were elected.

[Architect]

Especially,

1. England ceased to exist as a wholly independent political entity in 1707 under the articles of the Act of Union. How do you justify your claim to ongoing political nationhood in the absence of, for example, a parliament or government structure of its own?

2. The UK is a union of the four home countries (Scotland, England, NI, and Wales) with it's own sovereignty and laws. How do you square this against your own definition of nationhood, and to what extent have you considered the role of the predecessor parliaments of each nation in reaching the decision to form a union?

[Lothian]

A nation is an entity governed by its own laws. Having its own sovereignty. No. Try again.

[Especially]

I've never met a single Brit who bangs on about the American Revolution as much as Especially. Hell, I don't think most Americans bang on about it that much.

The reason is that you (unlike we British) have a written Constitution. The greatest ever made.

Why, we learn from such things all the time. And we teach too. So that men of goodwill can learn from each other. But the sheeple can stay ignorant. Which they choose.

[Especially]

No. Try again.

Yes, try just once. :)

[Darat]

In so much as this thread can be said to have a coherent topic it is definitely..., probably..., well I think..., related to something to do with the BBC so lets make sure we all keep on topic and take any debates about nations and so on to the relevant thread.

[Lothian]

In so much as this thread can be said to have a coherent topic it is definitely..., probably..., well I think..., related to something to do with the BBC so lets make sure we all keep on topic and take any debates about nations and so on to the relevant thread.When is Eastenders on next? I hate their pro-jellied eel agenda.

[Architect]

Darat

This may be an issue for a PM, in which case I apologise, however Especially's argument seems to include an inherrent and deep misunderstanding of the constitutional issues which, in turn, I think is fair questioning.

In any event would the entire thread not be best placed in Politics?

[Especially]

Especially,

1. England ceased to exist as a wholly independent political entity in 1707 under the articles of the Act of Union. How do you justify your claim to ongoing political nationhood in the absence of, for example, a parliament or government structure of its own?

2. The UK is a union of the four home countries (Scotland, England, NI, and Wales) with it's own sovereignty and laws. How do you square this against your own definition of nationhood, and to what extent have you considered the role of the predecessor parliaments of each nation in reaching the decision to form a union?

Architect,

Aren't you ashamed to be so dull in matters of history ?

If England ceased to exist as a wholly independent political entity in 1707 so did Scotland. But neither ceased to exist. They were merged without any vote or any consent from anyone, except the unelected dynasty. Now, who is fooling who ?

Furthermore, Scotland has its own nationhood and has had it for many, many centuries. It even has its own Parliament. It is a nation.

England is a nation. Regardless of the fact that it is under feudal occupation. It has been a nation for well over 1,000 years. It is one of the 4 nations taken over by the unelected feudal dynasty.

Which part of this message do you not understand ?

[Lothian]

You may keep your BBC. British ******** Corporation.Broadcasting.

[carlitos]

Or Taggart? It looks as eef there has beeeen a murr-durr.

[Lothian]

In any event would the entire thread not be best placed in Politics?AAH

[Agatha]

I am currently watching Universally Challenged (University Challenge) on the BBC. Paxman's sarcasm and slightly raised eyebrow is worth the price of the licence fee alone.

*Agatha manages to stay on topic, despite the temptation of the subject of nations*

[Especially]

Broadcasting.

Equine discharge :) !

[Especially]

I am currently watching Universally Challenged (University Challenge) on the BBC. Paxman's sarcasm and slightly raised eyebrow is worth the price of the licence fee alone.

*Agatha manages to stay on topic, despite the temptation of the subject of nations*


Yes, and anyone who pays good money for sarcasm and a slightly raised eyebrow is a happy customer of the British BS Corporation ! (The only remedy I know is two aspirins and a good night's sleep).

[Sledge]

In a desperate attempt to remain on topic, I'm going to ask again: Especially, do you watch the BBC news, listen to their radio news, and/or read the news on their website?

[Architect]

Aren't you ashamed to be so dull in matters of history ?

I can assure you that I have a good understanding of the constitutional arrangements in Scotland and the wider UK.


If England ceased to exist as a wholly independent political entity in 1707 so did Scotland. But neither ceased to exist. They were merged without any vote or any consent from anyone, except the unelected dynasty. Now, who is fooling who ?


Scotland and England conjoined in 1707 and came under one national (i.e. UK) Parliament, based at Westminster. In doing so there was a vote taken in both predecessor Parliaments. How do you square this with your claim?

Furthermore, Scotland has its own nationhood and has had it for many, many centuries. It even has its own Parliament. It is a nation.


Please clarify the arrangements between 1707 and 1997 regarding a Scottish parliament. Where did it sit, what parties were in power, and who was First Minister?

England is a nation. Regardless of the fact that it is under feudal occupation. It has been a nation for well over 1,000 years. It is one of the 4 nations taken over by the unelected feudal dynasty.

Evidence?

Which part of this message do you not understand ?

None. You're being quite clear about the extent of your understanding of the issues involved. Keep digging.

[Lothian]

In a desperate attempt to remain on topic, I'm going to ask again: Especially, do you watch the BBC news, listen to their radio news, and/or read the news on their website?He said he gave up his TV years ago.

[Architect]

Or Taggart? It looks as eef there has beeeen a murr-durr.

Mate of mine is (was, as it's effectively cancelled) the producer. And we dinnae speak like thaat.

[Sledge]

Ok, that's one thing ruled out. Especially, do you listen to the BBC radio news and/or read the BBC website?

[carlitos]

The rumors that the BBC drove around with little TV detectors to find License Fee scofflaws always creeped me out when I lived over there.

[Agatha]

Yes, and anyone who pays good money for sarcasm and a slightly raised eyebrow is a happy customer of the British BS Corporation ! I certainly am. All this and Wogan too, for £11 or so a month. A much better bargain than Sky.
:D
You claim not to have a television, and nobody forces you to listen to BBC or access the BBC website. Although, if you accessed the BBC BiteSize website occasionally, you may learn that you should not put a space between a word and an exclamation mark.

[Especially]

Especially, you appear to relish making up your own definitions for things and attempting to shove them down other's throats. You'll have to forgive me if I'll take the things some guy says on an internet forum with a grain of salt and get a second opinion.

Madam,

Keep the grain of salt and consult two other opinions. So that nothing is lost and your common sense always wins.

[carlitos]

Mate of mine is (was, as it's effectively cancelled) the producer. And we dinnae speak like thaat.

LoL. I used to live in Glasgow, and really enjoyed learning about the accents and learning 'the patter.'

[Especially]

I certainly am. All this and Wogan too, for £11 or so a month. A much better bargain than Sky.
:D
You claim not to have a television, and nobody forces you to listen to BBC or access the BBC website. Although, if you accessed the BBC BiteSize website occasionally, you may learn that you should not put a space between a word and an exclamation mark.

Yes, but unlike a divorce (which can burn your wallet) the BBC pursues me as British person as I travel, and I cannot get it out of my life. It haunts my living days and hardly a month passes without someone singing its praises. I have become a non-television person. Trapped as an insect in amber. And unable to escape from its clutches.

These withdrawl symptoms have been specially severe because I confess I have become an analogue person in an digital world ! One to be pitied and pampered.

[RHolmes]

Especially,

It can't even publish its accounts.

You're not looking hard enough (http://www.bbc.co.uk/annualreport/exec/financial/highlights/highlights.shtml). Try the links in the box on the left of the page.

I doubt this will satisfy you, as it doesn't give details of individual salaries, though I think we all know Jonathan Ross is paid too much. And that paying Chris Moyles anything at all is a heinous waste of public funds...

[Architect]

I find all this misplaced "Britishness" rather humorous given that it's clear from the FoTL thread that you're not actually British.

[Especially]

LoL. I used to live in Glasgow, and really enjoyed learning about the accents and learning 'the patter.'

Carlitos,

Glasgow is not lived in. It is survived.

You can take this on good authority, since I was born not more than 40 miles from that vortex of the universe.

[Sledge]

Ok, that's one thing ruled out. Especially, do you listen to the BBC radio news and/or read the BBC website?

Any time you're ready...

[Especially]

I find all this misplaced "Britishness" rather humorous given that it's clear from the FoTL thread that you're not actually British.

Sir,

If I protest my Britishness to you it will be to protest too much. I say only this. It was on this island where, at a very early age, I was born.

:)

[Architect]

Carlitos,

Glasgow is not lived in. It is survived.

You can take this on good authority, since I was born not more than 40 miles from that vortex of the universe.

I call "bluff".

[RHolmes]

Yes, but unlike a divorce (which can burn your wallet) the BBC pursues me as British person as I travel, and I cannot get it out of my life. It haunts my living days and hardly a month passes without someone singing its praises. I have become a non-television person. Trapped as an insect in amber. And unable to escape from its clutches.

These withdrawl symptoms have been specially severe because I confess I am an analogue person in an increasingly digital world !

Those of us who find celebrity gossip tedious feel the same, but I'm not feeling the need to torch the offices of heat magazine.

Heck - must stop giving myself ideas. Arson bad, arson bad, arson bad.

[Architect]

I can assure you that I have a good understanding of the constitutional arrangements in Scotland and the wider UK.



Scotland and England conjoined in 1707 and came under one national (i.e. UK) Parliament, based at Westminster. In doing so there was a vote taken in both predecessor Parliaments. How do you square this with your claim?




Please clarify the arrangements between 1707 and 1997 regarding a Scottish parliament. Where did it sit, what parties were in power, and who was First Minister?



Evidence?



None. You're being quite clear about the extent of your understanding of the issues involved. Keep digging.

Still waiting, our American friend.

[Architect]

Those of us who find celebrity gossip tedious feel the same, but I'm not feeling the need to torch the offices of heat magazine.

Heck - must stop giving myself ideas. Arson bad, arson bad, arson bad.

Arson. Heat magazine. Nice pun type thingy. :D

[Professor Yaffle]

Ahem - can we keep on topic? Taggart* is ITV, not BBC.






*I used to go out with someone who played a dead clown on Taggart

[realdon]

Would'nt things be a whole lot more unbiased if we had Fox news in the UK:D

[Especially]

In the other, now moderated, thread you claimed that the Kings of England were elected.

No, you must read more carefully. The moderator may have 'edited' the text. I do not know. (One of them has stopped my posts on the freeman thread already). What I wrote was the EARLY kings were elected.

After which came the unelected dynasty.

(Some time after Pharoah Rameses and before the advent of Elvis Presley).

[Agatha]

An intriguing claim, given that you use Americanisms like "three fourths", claimed that England's kings were elected, apparently couldn't find the £ key on your keyboard, don't appear to grasp the difference between England and Britain, and appear to be muddled about the constitutional arrangements in Scotland and the UK (thanks, Architect).

Now, about the BBC. How do you know the alleged Europhile agenda, if you don't watch or listen?

[cyborg]

England is a nation.

Well I didn't vote for that.

[Especially]

Well I didn't vote for that.

Great. And the relevance of this is ?

[Especially]

An intriguing claim, given that you use Americanisms like "three fourths", claimed that England's kings were elected, apparently couldn't find the £ key on your keyboard, don't appear to grasp the difference between England and Britain, and appear to be muddled about the constitutional arrangements in Scotland and the UK (thanks, Architect).

Now, about the BBC. How do you know the alleged Europhile agenda, if you don't watch or listen?

When I was a child, I thought as a child, and even acted as a child. But when I became a man I put away childish things.

Does this answer your question ?

[Architect]

And the relevance of this is...


It's a reference to your very American FoTL thread.

[Especially]

It's a reference to your very American FoTL thread.


I like the Americans. They have a healthy rebellion against feudalism.

[carlitos]

Would'nt things be a whole lot more unbiased if we had Fox news in the UK:D
Fox News is available on Sky TV.

I was born not more than 40 miles from that vortex of the universe.Perhaps "Especially" is channeling Marillion here. "I was born ... in the heart of Lothian ... "

XM3nozQ3i-s

[Agatha]

No, you must read more carefully. The moderator may have 'edited' the text. I do not know. (One of them has stopped my posts on the freeman thread already). What I wrote was the EARLY kings were elected.

After which came the unelected dynasty.

(Some time after Pharoah Rameses and before the advent of Elvis Presley).

I refer the honourable gentleman to post #177 in the other thread, which, as you may recall, I quoted very soon after you posted it. Here it is in its entirety:

Yes, and the unelected monarchy of England invaded the USA and killed lots of Americans. It happened in the War of Independence. Did you forget that ? And who opposed the great USA and its Constitution ? Why, the elite monarchy of England !!

England had kings but they were all elected. They were not tax gathering slaves to the Papacy. And they were not the sovereignty of the nation. The people were.

Big differences, yes ?

No specifics of early kings there. If you are accusing the mods of tampering with it, you need to take that to Forum Management as that is a very serious allegation.

[Agatha]

When I was a child, I thought as a child, and even acted as a child. But when I became a man I put away childish things.

Does this answer your question ? Not in the least. As a demonstration of the non-sequitur, though, it is supreme.

[cyborg]

Great. And the relevance of this is ?

Especially relevant.

[Especially]

Fox News is available on Sky TV.

Perhaps "Especially" is channeling Marillion here. "I was born ... in the heart of Lothian ... "

XM3nozQ3i-s


Yes, the only problem with Scotland in general is that it's too radically Scottish for me. Which makes me uneasy. I prefer not to be reminded of nationalism while I am there. It's like asking a Christian whether he is born again. Or asking a swimmer if the water is wet. Scotland is a great nation. For sure. And I was educated there and grew up there. It is too parochial for me. A place to retire to but not to live in.

[Architect]

You know, in the same way as he didn't want to discuss England in the FoTL/England thread, he clearly doesn't want to discuss the BBC here. And we're rising to the bait.

This thread needs to be moved to politics. Or AAH. Or maybe humour.

[Especially]

Not in the least. As a demonstration of the non-sequitur, though, it is supreme.

Very good.

[RHolmes]

Arson. Heat magazine. Nice pun type thingy. :D

Thanks. I only wish I could say that was deliberate. :o

By the way, what is this mythical place known as AAH?

[quadraginta]

An intriguing claim, given that you use Americanisms like "three fourths", claimed that England's kings were elected, apparently couldn't find the £ key on your keyboard, don't appear to grasp the difference between England and Britain, and appear to be muddled about the constitutional arrangements in Scotland and the UK (thanks, Architect).

Now, about the BBC. How do you know the alleged Europhile agenda, if you don't watch or listen?


Speaking as a disinterested (American) observer with a certain ear for linguistics I have to say that he certainly writes as if he is American, and I don't have the benefit of other threads to bolster this opinion.

... um ...

BBC.

[cyborg]

Yes, the only problem with Scotland in general is that it's too radically Scottish for me. Which makes me uneasy.

What if - and this is just a what if here - we got all the nations of the world to tear down their arbitrary borders and embrace the fact that yes, we are all citizens of the world and we can move forward as one people in a new order... a new world order that shall last forever!

Oh the humanity!

[Especially]

You know, in the same way as he didn't want to discuss England in the FoTL/England thread, he clearly doesn't want to discuss the BBC here. And we're rising to the bait.

This thread needs to be moved to politics. Or AAH. Or maybe humour.


I do wish to discuss the BBC. In fact, it's the most disgusting media subject I know.

[Sledge]

Discuss it then. Start by telling us how you know what it says when you don't own a television. Or you can go with telling us how you know what the BBC says when you go out of your way to avoid its output.

[carlitos]

It is too parochial for me. A place to retire to but not to live in.
I would think that the last thing you would want to do when you retire is learn how to drive on the left-hand side of the road at such an advanced age. If you want to retire like a Brit, you'll have to go to France. Or if you can't afford that, the Dalmatian coast.

(I saw a program about this on the BBC)

[Especially]

What if - and this is just a what if here - we got all the nations of the world to tear down their arbitrary borders and embrace the fact that yes, we are all citizens of the world and we can move forward as one people in a new order... a new world order that shall last forever!

Oh the humanity!

Tearing down borders is absurd. We are who and what we are. We are born and live within the contex of our nation state and this is the context of our society. We are not zombies or hybrids or clones. We are an integral part of our nation. And we exist in great variety, as nature intended. Despite remaining of our land, our nation.

[Agatha]

You know, in the same way as he didn't want to discuss England in the FoTL/England thread, he clearly doesn't want to discuss the BBC here. And we're rising to the bait.

This thread needs to be moved to politics. Or AAH. Or maybe humour.

What if - and this is just a what if here - we got all the nations of the world to tear down their arbitrary borders and embrace the fact that yes, we are all citizens of the world and we can move forward as one people in a new order... a new world order that shall last forever!

Oh the humanity!

I vote for AAH and a generalised chorus of Kumbaya, sung while holding hands and watching the sun rise.

Especially seems to have become bored of discussing the BBC.

[Especially]

I vote for AAH and a generalised chorus of Kumbaya, sung while holding hands and watching the sun rise.

Especially seems to have become bored of discussing the BBC.

I am not bored of discussing the BBC. But discussions require more than one person. And I have not become more than one person.

[cyborg]

Start by telling us how you know what it says when you don't own a television.

Especially owns the TRUTH - no mere television could be superior.

[cyborg]

And I have not become more than one person.

What time of day does that occur at?

[D'rok]

No BBC, no Doctor Who. Therefore, BBC good. Debate over.

[Lothian]

Never mind older female news readers. The BBC needs some younger ones so I can have a proper gander.

[cyborg]

No BBC, no Doctor Who.

Pfft. Anti-Dalek propaganda.

[Lothian]

I am not bored of discussing the BBC. But discussions require more than one person. And I have not become more than one person.I thought there was you and the legal fiction you.

[Agatha]

Excellent. So, are you a fan of the BBC's output? I understand you don't watch the television, do you listen to the radio? The Today Programme, maybe, or are you more of a R3 afficionado?

[Especially]

Discuss it then. Start by telling us how you know what it says when you don't own a television. Or you can go with telling us how you know what the BBC says when you go out of your way to avoid its output.


The BBC is that corporation which connects us, via its umbilical cord, to a universe of blandness controlled by experts whose output is irrelevant and often downright false. Presenting to us a world of utter irrelevance and meaninglessness. Predicated by the belief, the legend, that it is somehow worthy of our admiration.

It is the visual equivalent of watching a Chinese meal. Since, we discover, we are still hungry.

[D'rok]

Pfft. Anti-Dalek propaganda.

No sir! Pro-Dalek advocacy. I want the BBC to keep bringing the darling little pepperpots into my living room.

[Especially]

Excellent. So, are you a fan of the BBC's output? I understand you don't watch the television, do you listen to the radio? The Today Programme, maybe, or are you more of a R3 afficionado?

I will listen to Radio 3 of the BBC on the off chance that J.S. Bach makes an appearance.

:)

[carlitos]

I used to like the Ian Anderson show...

[garethdjb]

The BBC is that corporation which connects us, via its umbilical cord, to a universe of blandness controlled by experts whose output is irrelevant and often downright false. Presenting to us a world of utter irrelevance and meaninglessness. Predicated by the belief, the legend, that it is somehow worthy of our admiration.

It is the visual equivalent of watching a Chinese meal. Since, we discover, we are still hungry.

Are you sure you haven't been watching ITV2?

[Especially]

I thought there was you and the legal fiction you.


Yes, but one exists and the other (as you so rightly say) is a legal fiction.

:)

[Especially]

Are you sure you haven't been watching ITV2?


No, I threw my television on the scrap heap. Since which time I have received no further instructions from the BBC.

:cool:

[Sledge]

The BBC is that corporation which connects us, via its umbilical cord, to a universe of blandness controlled by experts whose output is irrelevant and often downright false. Presenting to us a world of utter irrelevance and meaninglessness. Predicated by the belief, the legend, that it is somehow worthy of our admiration.

It is the visual equivalent of watching a Chinese meal. Since, we discover, we are still hungry.

You seem to have responded to something other than my quote. I asked how you know what the BBC says when you don't own a television, and how you can know what it says when you go out of your way to avoid its output. Your opinions on the BBC are irrelevant to those questions.

[Agatha]

A clever sentence (have you an eye to the language award?) but ultimately devoid of meaning.

For every piece of fluff such as Radio 1, Eastenders and Strictly, there is QI, Mastermind, Autumnwatch, Top Gear, Radio 4, Radio 2, SixMusic, Dr Who, Blackadder, Question Time, Grand Prix coverage and so much more.

[Especially]

I used to like the Ian Anderson show...

Ah, yes, I vaguely remember that.

[Especially]

You seem to have responded to something other than my quote. I asked how you know what the BBC says when you don't own a television, and how you can know what it says when you go out of your way to avoid its output. Your opinions on the BBC are irrelevant to those questions.


I suppose that when we know a thing in any detail we are able to predict its movements and its actions to the same degree. Though we have had no association with it in a long time.

I know for sure that dogs bark in Peru. Though I have never been to Peru.

[commandlinegamer]

Getting back to the thread...

The BBC has been accused of anti-SNP bias and of promulgating the left-wing line during the recent Megrahi brouhaha. One merely has to look at the blog entries for reporter Brian Taylor over the last month or so to get a flavour. A couple of BBC Scotland journalists in particular have come in for criticism to the extent to which they have tried to garner pro-government, anti Libya opinion from the general public.

Whether that is really the case is difficult to say. Various polls have been taken, some in favour of Megrahi's release, some against. One might expect a British Broadcasting Corporation to have a pro-Union stance for example. But the relationship between BBC and government does not always run smooth.

This may not count for much but under both Labour and Tory administrations, a Director-General has effectively been forced from office, so I'd like to think there is still an undercurrent of defiance no matter who is in power.

[Lothian]

Why, they even want to close down Parliament. And to replace the laws of England with their own 'laws'. This to happen in the next 7 months.
Can you please tell me which "laws of England" will be replaced in 7 months time, and what they will be replaced with.

[Sledge]

I suppose that when we know a thing in any detail we are able to predict its movements and its actions to the same degree. Though we have had no association with it in a long time.

I know for sure that dogs bark in Peru. Though I have never been to Peru.

Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

commandlinegamer: Call me an idealist, but I'd hope the BBC would have no stance on the news at all, but simply report it.

[Especially]

Getting back to the thread...

The BBC has been accused of anti-SNP bias and of promulgating the left-wing line during the recent Megrahi brouhaha. One merely has to look at the blog entries for reporter Brian Taylor over the last month or so to get a flavour. A couple of BBC Scotland journalists in particular have come in for criticism to the extent to which they have tried to garner pro-government, anti Libya opinion from the general public.

Whether that is really the case is difficult to say. Various polls have been taken, some in favour of Megrahi's release, some against. One might expect a British Broadcasting Corporation to have a pro-Union stance for example. But the relationship between BBC and government does not always run smooth.

This may not count for much but under both Labour and Tory administrations, a Director-General has effectively been forced from office, so I'd like to think there is still an undercurrent of defiance no matter who is in power.

Yes, but we've arrived at a fine state of affairs if we, who depend on fairness and objectivity find ourselves looking for 'undercurrents'. The Libyan affair was a total nonsense. The truth of that crime is hidden deep in the bowels of the intelligence community. And the Libyans and most people knew that years ago. The man was in all probability completely innocent. That is my view, at least.

[Especially]

Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

commandlinegamer: Call me an idealist, but I'd hope the BBC would have no stance on the news at all, but simply report it.

I too am an idealist. In the ideal BBC a conflict or point of dispute would be covered from both sides. This rarely happens in BBC news.

[Especially]

Can you please tell me which "laws of England" will be replaced in 7 months time, and what they will be replaced with.

Try the Lisbon Treaty, for a start.

[Sledge]

I too am an idealist. In the ideal BBC a conflict or point of dispute would be covered from both sides. This rarely happens in BBC news.
How would you know?

[Lothian]

Try the Lisbon Treaty, for a start.What laws are being replaced.

[garethdjb]

Try the Lisbon Treaty, for a start.

Specifically, which laws of the UK will be affected by the Lisbon treaty?

[Mojo]

I will listen to Radio 3 of the BBC on the off chance that J.S. Bach makes an appearance.


Dude, he hasn't made a public appearance since 1750.

[funk de fino]

Well, no, I am more Scots than you are American.

You are not british. You were not educated in Scotland.

I watched the Beeb at the weekend where Cameron was grilled on the Lisbon treaty. It's all over the news due to the Tory conference

[stateofgrace]

The BBC is that corporation which connects us, via its umbilical cord, to a universe of blandness controlled by experts whose output is irrelevant and often downright false. Presenting to us a world of utter irrelevance and meaninglessness. Predicated by the belief, the legend, that it is somehow worthy of our admiration.

It is the visual equivalent of watching a Chinese meal. Since, we discover, we are still hungry.

So you binned your TV because of the BBC, right? Never crossed your mind to use your remote and switch channels?

I too am an idealist. In the ideal BBC a conflict or point of dispute would be covered from both sides. This rarely happens in BBC news.

Since you don't watch the BBC as you have no TV, your opinion on this matter is worthless.

[Especially]

So you binned your TV because of the BBC, right? Never crossed your mind to use your remote and switch channels?



Since you don't watch the BBC as you have no TV, your opinion on this matter is worthless.

I have seen enough of the BBC to warn viewers (and listeners) that it is is rubbish.

But rubbish of a special kind.

And, I was persuaded (rightly) a few years ago, to dump my TV. Life is much better without it. My opinion is very valuable. To me.

And yours to you.

The point of discussion is to obtain value from sharing opinions.

Thank You

[Sledge]

Your opinion has no value to anyone on this matter because you have nothing to base it on.

[Especially]

You are not british. You were not educated in Scotland.

I watched the Beeb at the weekend where Cameron was grilled on the Lisbon treaty. It's all over the news due to the Tory conference

I am not British ?

How strange ? I was born in Britain, grew up in Britain, was educated in Britain, am living in Britain, and am writing to you from Britain.

Is there other life on your planet ?

:)

[Lothian]

The point of discussion is to obtain value from sharing opinions.

You opined early that the laws of England will be replaced in 7 months. How about sharing by giving us details of the laws being replaced.

[Especially]

Your opinion has no value to anyone on this matter because you have nothing to base it on.

My opinion is of value to me because it is based on my experience, the views of others, and the fact that you are making no contribution to this thread.

For all these reasons I find your opinion worthless.

[Especially]

You opined early that the laws of England will be replaced in 7 months. How about sharing by giving us details of the laws being replaced.

Yes, have you never heard of the Lisbon Treaty ? I honestly suggest you should start reading on these issues.

[carlitos]

No, I threw my television on the scrap heap. Since which time I have received no further instructions from the BBC.

:cool:

I think you mean that you 'binned' it. Or perhaps you took it to the tip. You are as Scottish as a pseudo-silk kimono.

ETA - maybe the midgie man came and got it.

[stateofgrace]

I have seen enough of the BBC to warn viewers (and listeners) that it is is rubbish.
But rubbish of a special kind. Worthless, evidence free opinion.
And, I was persuaded (rightly) a few years ago, to dump my TV. Life is much better without it. My opinion is very valuable. To me.
Worthless, evidence free opinion.
And yours to you.

The point of discussion is to obtain value from sharing opinions.
yes and your opinion is worthless as you do not watch the BBC, therefore you are in no position to offer an opinion
Thank You Don't thank me pal, offer up something based on reality not your worthless opinions.

[garethdjb]

Yes, have you never heard of the Lisbon Treaty ? I honestly suggest you should start reading on these issues.

Ok. Again. Specifically, which laws of the UK will be affected by the Lisbon treaty?

[carlitos]

Currently, in England there is law "x"

The Lisbon Treaty is going to replace law "x"

Please tell us what is law "x"

Thank you.

[Especially]

How would you know?


Experience. And I read a lot. And I consult a lot.

[Especially]

Currently, in England there is law "x"

The Lisbon Treaty is going to replace law "x"

Please tell us what is law "x"

Thank you.

Law X is going to be replaced by Law Y

Law X is the law of the UK
Law Y is the law of the European Union

[Lothian]

Yes, have you never heard of the Lisbon Treaty ? I honestly suggest you should start reading on these issues.Indeed I have, but I want to know if you have. Can you tell us what laws of England are being replaced? Then we might look at your abolition of parliament statement :)

[carlitos]

How can I break Law X? What do I have to do?

[Lothian]

Law X is going to be replaced by Law Y

Law X is the law of the UK
Law Y is the law of the European UnionSo you have no idea and were lying in your OP. I suppose you are a freeman and therefore you are not used to contracting with the truth.

[Especially]

Indeed I have. Can you honestly not tell us what laws of England ware being replaced?

There seems to be some confusion with you about what laws actually are. If you believe Parliament makes laws (which it does not) you will believe that around 3000 laws have been made by the UK Parliament in the last 8 years or so.

All of these 'laws' will either be abandoned or altered to fit the laws of the European Union, under the Treaty of Lisbon.

Time to wake up.

Plus, of course, you must be aware of the Treaty of Lisbon on policing, on law and order, on security matters, on many, many issues. You have not read the Treaty of Lisbon, have you ? It says that the sovereignty of the UK is ceded to Europe in all matters of law.

Please read it. You may find it interesting. You may even agree that the British people should have a referendum on this nonsense. Before it's too late.

[Especially]

So you have no idea and were lying in your OP. I suppose you are a freeman and therefore you are not used to contracting with the truth.


This is nonsense. Please don't waste my time or yours with posting nonsense.

[remirol]

All of these 'laws' will either be abandoned or altered to fit the laws of the European Union, under the Treaty of Lisbon.

Can you cite one of those laws, specifically?

[stateofgrace]

Experience. And I read a lot. And I consult a lot.

When did you last watch the BBC news on a TV ?

[carlitos]

Parliament doesn't make laws. Oh my. I am sorry for contributing to this thread.

[Lothian]

There seems to be some confusion with you about what laws actually are. If you believe Parliament makes laws (which it does not) you will believe that around 3000 laws have been made by the UK Parliament in the last 8 years or so.

All of these 'laws' will either be abandoned or altered to fit the laws of the European Union, under the Treaty of Lisbon.

Time to wake up. No confusion with me. You said the law of England will be replaced. I asked you to tell me which law of England will be replaced and you have failed to do that.


Plus, of course, you must be aware of the Treaty of Lisbon on policing, on law and order, on security matters, on many, many issues. You have not read the Treaty of Lisbon, have you ? It says that the sovereignty of the UK is ceded to Europe in all matters of law. Can we have the text please.
Please read it. You may find it interesting. So might you.

You may even agree that the British people should have a referendum on this nonsense. Before it's too late.No.

[volatile]

Law X is going to be replaced by Law Y

Law X is the law of the UK
Law Y is the law of the European Union

"Statute" X, surely? How does this affect The Common Law of England?

[Especially]

Parliament doesn't make laws. Oh my. I am sorry for contributing to this thread.

No, Parliament does not make laws. It creates Statutes. Statutes are NOT laws. Statutes are acts of parliament which have the FORCE of law but ONLY with the consent (notice this !) of the governed.

Politicians do not make laws. They obey laws. Which laws ? The law of the land. Read a basic law book.

Think about it.

[Lothian]

Can you cite one of those laws, specifically?Remirol. Go away. This is our troll. We found him first.

[Especially]

"Statute" X, surely? How does this affect The Common Law of England?

It does not affect the Common Law of England. Although the legal industry have their 'spin' on the Common Law.

We have to teach them. And we do. All the time.

[remirol]

Remirol. Go away. This is our troll. We found him first.

Mine! Mine! MOM!!!!

(I have no idea why I'm posting in this thread, to tell you the truth. I don't live in the UK and couldn't give more than half a damn. :)

[volatile]

you must be aware of the Treaty of Lisbon on policing, on law and order, on security matters, on many, many issues.

I thought you thought all the UK police were corrupt? So surely replacing them is a Good Thing?

[carlitos]

If this guy's British, I'm the pope.

[Especially]

Can you cite one of those laws, specifically?

ALL Parliamentary 'Laws'. Without exception.

[Sledge]

My opinion is of value to me because it is based on my experience, the views of others, and the fact that you are making no contribution to this thread.

For all these reasons I find your opinion worthless.

I should have bet money with someone that you'd throw out the "you aren't contributing to this thread" line again. Do you have that set up as a macro on your keyboard?

Anyhoo, your opinion on the BBC is of no value because, by your own admission, you don't have anything to do with what the BBC does. How are you then in any position to comment on it? You're like the people who ring in complaining about a show they didn't watch, but read about days later when a newspaper needed to fill some space.

[Agatha]

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/full_text/index_en.htm

Give us page numbers, Especially. Point to the bits of the treaty you object to.

[Especially]

If this guy's British, I'm the pope.


And if you are Ugandan I am Martin Luther

[volatile]

It does not affect the Common Law of England.

Well then, what's the problem? :confused: Freemen only obey the Common Law, so any treaty won't affect them.

Or is everything you told us in the other thread about being able to opt out of statutes not actually true after all?

[Lothian]

Mine! Mine! MOM!!!!

(I have no idea why I'm posting in this thread, to tell you the truth. I don't live in the UK and couldn't give more than half a damn. :)Don't worry. You will know more about the UK than Especially.

[garethdjb]

ALL Parliamentary 'Laws'. Without exception.

Which Treaty of Lisbon have you read?????????

[Agatha]

If this guy's British, I'm the pope. You don't seem to be wearing a silly hat, I call shenanigans.

[Especially]

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/full_text/index_en.htm

Give us page numbers, Especially. Point to the bits of the treaty you object to.

Well, let's see. From the front page to the back page, with all the pages in between. How about that ? For starters ? I object to them all.

[remirol]

ALL Parliamentary 'Laws'. Without exception.

That's not what I asked.

Can you cite one such law and what its replacement will be?

[Sledge]

Well then, what's the problem? :confused:

Freemen will be at a disadvantage when using their magic words if the court doesn't speak English.

Not that it'll make any actual difference, apart from the policeman truncheoning them maybe insulting them in French instead of English.

[Especially]

Which Treaty of Lisbon have you read?????????

How many are there ?

One is too many.

[Especially]

That's not what I asked.

Can you cite one such law and what its replacement will be?

I have already replied to your question. ALL Parliamentary laws. They will be made to conform to European Law.

This is very simple to understand.

[Lothian]

It does not affect the Common Law of England. Although the legal industry have their 'spin' on the Common Law.

We have to teach them. And we do. All the time.So why did you say it would replace teh law of England. Do you know what a law is?

Moving on. You said it would replace all 3000 statues made in the last 8 years or so. How does it affect The Housing and Regeneration Act 2008.

[garethdjb]

How many are there ?

One is too many.

There must be at least two, as you have clearly read a different one to me. How will the Lisbon Treaty affect:

V.A.T.
School leaving age
Conservation of National monuments
Fishing quotas in the Shetlands?

[Especially]

Well then, what's the problem? :confused:

The problem is your ignorance.

The problem is you do not know what the law is

The problem is that our courts need to be told what the law is

The problem is that the Law of the EU is a foreign law and union with a foreign power is illegal under the Constitution of the UK.

[carlitos]

"one" =/= "ALL"

This is very simple to understand.

[remirol]

I have already replied to your question.

No, you haven't. I'm not asking for 'all'. I'm asking you to cite one specific law and its specific replacement text. I do not believe you are capable of doing so.

[Especially]

There must be at least two, as you have clearly read a different one to me. How will the Lisbon Treaty affect:

V.A.T.
School leaving age
Conservation of National monuments
Fishing quotas in the Shetlands?

These are spurious questions. Since the European Law will be imposed on all of these issues, like all other legislation of the British Parliament.

[Lothian]

Well, let's see. From the front page to the back page, with all the pages in between. How about that ? For starters ? I object to them all.Why do you object to this bit

1. The Charter does not extend the ability of the Court of Justice of the European Union, or any court or tribunal of
Poland or of the United Kingdom, to find that the laws, regulations or administrative provisions, practices or action of
Poland or of the United Kingdom are inconsistent with the fundamental rights, freedoms and principles that it reaffirms.
2. In particular, and for the avoidance of doubt, nothing in Title IV of the Charter creates justiciable rights applicable to
Poland or the United Kingdom except in so far as Poland or the United Kingdom has provided for such rights in its national
law.

To the extent that a provision of the Charter refers to national laws and practices, it shall only apply to Poland or the United
Kingdom to the extent that the rights or principles that it contains are recognised in the law or practices of Poland or of the
United Kingdom.

[Lothian]

These are spurious questions. Since the European Law will be imposed on all of these issues, like all other legislation of the British Parliament.Your ignorance is showing.

[Especially]

No, you haven't. I'm not asking for 'all'. I'm asking you to cite one specific law and its specific replacement text. I do not believe you are capable of doing so.

If you do not believe I am capable of doing so, why waste your time asking me to do so ?

I have told you that in the last 8 years the British Parliament has passed close to 3,000 laws, all of which are subject to the Law of the European Union. If that is not clear enough I do not believe you are capable of understanding my answer.

In which case, thanks. Nice talking to you.

[garethdjb]

These are spurious questions. Since the European Law will be imposed on all of these issues, like all other legislation of the British Parliament.

OK, and how will the Lisbon Treaty affect these specific cases? For example, will VAT be higher or lower?

[Especially]

Your ignorance is showing.


And you will show us evidence to the contrary, yes ? Having read the Lisbon Treaty, yes ?

Why do you waste your time posting here if you only wish to avoid your own ignorance ?

[volatile]

The problem is your ignorance.

No. Thanks to your boundless wisdom, I know that:

1) Statutes are not Laws
2) One can opt out of statutes if one does not consent
3) Courts cannot, will not and could not disagree with this

and:

4) The Lisbon Treaty is a Statute.

As it has no power in Law, and as it can be ignored, and as no court could possibly refuse to acknowledge a lack of consent to it, what exactly are you worried about?

By your own reasoning - by everything you've told us - it doesn't matter what the Treaty of Lisbon says, because it has no force against those who do not consent to it. So, I'll ask again: what's the problem?

[remirol]

If you do not believe I am capable of doing so, why waste your time asking me to do so ?

I am providing you the opportunity to either prove me wrong or withdraw your claim. If you fail to do either, I will consider your claim unsupported by any evidence, and your posts will be proven to be meaningless hot air.

Now, please cite a specific law which will be replaced, along with its replacement text?

[Especially]

OK, and how will the Lisbon Treaty affect these specific cases? For example, will VAT be higher or lower?

The rate of VAT will be subject, in the UK, to a decision made by the European Union.

[volatile]

If you do not believe I am capable of doing so, why waste your time asking me to do so ?

I have told you that in the last 8 years the British Parliament has passed close to 3,000 laws, all of which are subject to the Law of the European Union. If that is not clear enough I do not believe you are capable of understanding my answer.


You mean "statutes", right? Not laws? :confused:

[Especially]

I am providing you the opportunity to either prove me wrong or withdraw your claim. If you fail to do either, I will consider your claim unsupported by any evidence, and your posts will be proven to be meaningless hot air.

Now, please cite a specific law which will be replaced, along with its replacement text?

Prove you wrong ? On what ?

You ask a dumb question you get a dumb answer. I have given you the implications of the EU on the Parliament of the UK.

That is all I have to say.

[Especially]

You mean "statutes", right? Not laws? :confused:


Yes, I mean statutes. Which have the force of law with the consent of the governed. And which are commonly known as the 'laws of parliament'.

[Lothian]

And you will show us evidence to the contrary, yes ? Having read the Lisbon Treaty, yes ?

Why do you waste your time posting here if you only wish to avoid your own ignorance ?Show how ignorant I am. I will answer garethdjb's question and you can specifically point out where I am wrong to educate me.

If the Lisbon Treaty is ratified it will not change the VAT rate, and it will have no effect on how the vat rate can be amended in the UK.

[Lothian]

The rate of VAT will be subject, in the UK, to a decision made by the European Union.No the ability of the UK Government to set the VAT rate will not be affected by the Lisbon treaty.

As you have read it cover to cover you will be able to show where I am wrong.

[volatile]

Yes, I mean statutes. Which have the force of law with the consent of the governed. And which are commonly known as the 'laws of parliament'.

But you spent all day yesterday telling us that statutes did not have force of law, and we, as sovereign men, were perfectly allowed simply to refuse to consent to them.

So, if that's true, you can ignore the Treaty of Lisbon and it will not affect you one jot, since you do not consent to it. Right?

[remirol]

Prove you wrong ? On what ?

Evasion is equivalent to concession; accepted. And now the public record shows that you cannot support your claim with evidence when directly challenged. :D

:popcorn1

[Especially]

Show ho ignorant I am. I will answer garethdjb question and you can specifically point out where I am wrong to educate me.

If the Lisbon Treaty is ratified it will not change the VAT rate, and it will have no effect on how the vat rate can be amended in the UK.

Lothian,

Neither the Spanish Armada of 1588 nor the Nazi regime under Adolf Hitler has come so close to occupying and ruling this nation as the EU is about to do.

It is not the time for us to split hairs. It is time for British people to DEMAND a Referendum on EU political union while there is still time. Not to do so will lead to a brutal dictatorship here in Britain very, very soon.

[remirol]

Godwin!

[funk de fino]

I am not British ?

How strange ? I was born in Britain, grew up in Britain, was educated in Britain, am living in Britain, and am writing to you from Britain.

Is there other life on your planet ?

:)

You are lying.

[Especially]

Evasion is equivalent to concession; accepted. And now the public record shows that you cannot support your claim with evidence when directly challenged. :D

:popcorn1


So be it. You may believe what you please. I am not giving you a leaf but a whole forest. And you cannot handle it.

Such is life. I want to convey to you the takeover and rule of Britain by an empire nobody here has approved of and which has never had the approval of the British people.

That is why you must form your own judgement.

Thank You

[stateofgrace]

If you do not believe I am capable of doing so, why waste your time asking me to do so ?

I have told you that in the last 8 years the British Parliament has passed close to 3,000 laws, all of which are subject to the Law of the European Union. If that is not clear enough I do not believe you are capable of understanding my answer.

In which case, thanks. Nice talking to you.

Really ?

I've been told differently

On one analysis, EU law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU_law) is simply a subcategory of international law that depends for its effect on a series of international treaties (notably the Treaty of Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Rome) and the Maastricht Treaty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty)). It therefore has effect in the UK only to the extent that Parliament permits it to have effect, by means of statutes such as the European Communities Act 1972 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Communities_Act_1972), and Parliament could, as a matter of British law, unilaterally bar the application of EU law in the UK simply by legislating to that effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom#Parliamentary_s upremacy_and_the_rule_of_law

I have bolded the really important bit.

[funk de fino]

Lothian,

Neither the Spanish Armada of 1588 nor the Nazi regime under Adolf Hitler has come so close to occupying and ruling this nation as the EU is about to do.

It is not the time for us to split hairs. It is time for British people to DEMAND a Referendum on EU political union while there is still time. Not to do so will lead to a brutal dictatorship here in Britain very, very soon.

You cannot vote on it anyway.

[Sledge]

Why bother demanding a referendum on something that, according to you, won't affect us one bit?

[carlitos]

You are lying.

He is taking it right up the council in this thread.

/bad scottish cockney

[Agatha]

But you aren't on the electoral roll, Especially. What is the point of calling for a referendum when you are not able to take part?

[remirol]

That is why you must form your own judgement.

Oh, I have. My judgment is that you don't know anything about the subject you're discussing, and that's why you can't cite anything specific about it and have to resort to generalities and vague alarmist statements.

:popcorn1

[Especially]

Oh, I have. My judgment is that you don't know anything about the subject you're discussing, and that's why you can't cite anything specific about it and have to resort to generalities and vague alarmist statements.

:popcorn1

Thanks for the conversation. Keep reading the newspapers about the fate of Britain in the next year or so.

And remember our exchanges.

[Lothian]

Lothian,

t is not the time for us to split hairs.I am not spiting hairs I am calling you on your lies. So VAT, tell me how the Lisbon treaty affects it.

[remirol]

Thanks for the conversation. Keep reading the newspapers about the fate of Britain in the next year or so.

And remember our exchanges.

Are you a gambling man? :D

[carlitos]

Especially pays "sales tax," not VAT. The VAT is a European thing. :)

[funk de fino]

I am watching BBC2 right now and they are talking about the Lisbon Treaty. Right now.

The Tories are in a dither about it. The BBC are interviewing people and asking them their views on it.

[Lothian]

Especially pays "sales tax," not VAT. The VAT is a European thing. :)To be fair, I believe he is in the Uk. But he does not pay VAT because is it a statutory tax and is not part of the law of England and Wessex and has not been consented to by the elected kings of England...or something.

[Especially]

Are you a gambling man? :D

No, I only deal in certainties. And what I have told you is right. The United Kingdom is about to be invaded and occupied by an Empire which will remove the laws of this nation, its Parliament, its freedoms, its culture and which will impose on its people a brutal regime.

I do not care whether you believe me or not. The time is too far gone to care if you believe it or not. I want you to know this nation is now fighting hard to stop this happening. Trying to get a vote (a referendum) from the British people on this issue of our own national sovereignty. And only a few months in which we can do it. All political parties are traitors here and are refusing to allow such a vote. In fact, most countries in Europe have already ratified the European Union. Including the UK itself. Illegally, and contrary to its own Constitution.

So, no, I am not a gambling man. I am telling you what I know. As a fact.

[Lothian]

I am watching BBC2 right now and they are talking about the Lisbon Treaty. Right now.

The Tories are in a dither about it. The BBC are interviewing people and asking them their views on it.And now Boris.

[funk de fino]

Please do not post to me again. I will not reply.

You are a fool.

I am scottish, I am british. You are not. You cannot vote anyway.

You continue to spew lies. You are a coward.

[D'rok]

No. Thanks to your boundless wisdom, I know that:

1) Statutes are not Laws
2) One can opt out of statutes if one does not consent
3) Courts cannot, will not and could not disagree with this

and:

4) The Lisbon Treaty is a Statute.

As it has no power in Law, and as it can be ignored, and as no court could possibly refuse to acknowledge a lack of consent to it, what exactly are you worried about?

By your own reasoning - by everything you've told us - it doesn't matter what the Treaty of Lisbon says, because it has no force against those who do not consent to it. So, I'll ask again: what's the problem?

Based on the premises that Especially has spent considerable effort promoting on these fora, I find this logic to be flawless.

What's the matter Especially? Aren't you a freeman? Isn't the Lisbon Treaty just another statute to which you need not consent?

[remirol]

No, I only deal in certainties. And what I have told you is right. The United Kingdom is about to be invaded and occupied by an Empire which will remove the laws of this nation, its Parliament, its freedoms, its culture and which will impose on its people a brutal regime.
...(snip)...
So, no, I am not a gambling man. I am telling you what I know. As a fact.

Well, since you only deal in certainties and you consider this a fact, I am sure you wouldn't object to placing a friendly wager on whether or not the statement bolded above will come to pass?

If you're interested, I am certain I can find an escrow service in Vegas or somewhere that would allow such a wager to take place legally, yet anonymously. And of course, it wouldn't offend your gambling sensibilities in the slightest, since you consider it to be a certainty.

[funk de fino]

The Mayor of London is asking for a referendum. Right this minute. On the BBC.

[tsig]

Darat

This may be an issue for a PM, in which case I apologise, however Especially's argument seems to include an inherrent and deep misunderstanding of the constitutional issues which, in turn, I think is fair questioning.

In any event would the entire thread not be best placed in Politics?

Save the trouble and AAH it.

[Especially]

To be fair, I believe he is in the Uk. But he does not pay VAT because is it a statutory tax and is not part of the law of England and Wessex and has not been consented to by the elected kings of England...or something.

Lothian,

I wish I could convince you of the seriousness of the months in which we are now living. I cannot. But I can hope you yourself might examine these issues more than you see them now being discussed in the mass media. England, as a nation has virtually gone. The UK (so-called) has treasonously joined this nation to an empire, a regime, against its own Constitution. Without any mandate from the people of this nation. And it has happened right under our noses. This is treason of the highest order.

When you see Parliament closed you will believe it.

[Agatha]

Perhaps he formally consents to pay VAT every time he purchases something.

Pop down to the offie, buy a bag of crisps, tell the poor long suffering gum-chewer on the till that on this occasion, he does in fact consent to pay 42p, of which 5.5p is VAT. If they think he's a care-in-the-community case, it does not matter! He is exercising his FOTL right to consent (and he wants a bag of crisps).

[Lothian]

The Mayor of London is asking for a referendum. Right this minute. On the BBC.but..... Very funny interview.

[funk de fino]

Lothian,

I wish I could convince you of the seriousness of the months in which we are now living. I cannot. But I can hope you yourself might examine these issues more than you see them now being discussed in the mass media. England, as a nation has virtually gone. The UK (so-called) has treasonously joined this nation to an empire, a regime, against its own Constitution. Without any mandate from the people of this nation. And it has happened right under our noses. This is treason of the highest order.

When you see Parliament closed you will believe it.

You do not even understand the difference between the UK, Great Britain or England.

I suspect a US servicemens child. Stationed near Glasgow perhaps or nearer me. Pretty ironic if true as I grew up and schooled with loads of them and my mother worked for them for 18 years.

[Mojo]

Freemen will be at a disadvantage when using their magic words if the court doesn't speak English.

Not that it'll make any actual difference, apart from the policeman truncheoning them maybe insulting them in French instead of English.


English courts have used French in the past: Richardson, C. J. de C. B. al Assises at Salisbury in Summer 1631. fuit assault per prisoner la condemne pur felony que puis son condemnation ject un Brickbat a le dit Justice que narrowly mist, & pur ceo immediately fuit indictment drawn per Noy envers le prisoner, & son dexter manus ampute & fix al Gibbet sur que luy mesme immediatment hange in presence de Court.


Well, something like French.

Source: Dyer's Reports 188b, 1688 edition.

[D'rok]

When you see Parliament closed you will believe it.

Aha! A concrete claim. When can we expect this to happen? I, for one, will believe it (takeover of the UK by the dread empire) if Parliament closes. That would be good enough evidence for me.

So, when?

[Especially]

The Mayor of London is asking for a referendum. Right this minute. On the BBC.

Yes, and Prime Minister Brown even promised a Referendum. It's a carrot being dangled in front of us. And the clock is ticking down. We have months to do something. And these actors are playing with us.

The Referendum never comes. It will take the people themselves to protest before it happens.

They want these last few months to expire. But we will not sit back.

[Lothian]

Lothian,

I wish I could convince you of the seriousness of the months in which we are now living. I cannot. But I can hope you yourself might examine these issues I hope you can look into these issues. Seriously. It is obvious you do not have a clue what changes the Lisbon treaty will make. Your claim in the O.P. is patently false. You can not find a single law that will change.

When you see Parliament closed you will believe it.Ok. You have had one abject failure in respect of the law changes; we will move on to your second point. Which part of the Lisbon treaty calls for the closure of the Uk parliament? You have the text so page number reference please.

[Agatha]

The Mayor of London is asking for a referendum. Right this minute. On the BBC.
You cannot mean the very same BBC that Especially claimed was: The BBC is that corporation which connects us, via its umbilical cord, to a universe of blandness controlled by experts whose output is irrelevant and often downright false. Presenting to us a world of utter irrelevance and meaninglessness. Predicated by the belief, the legend, that it is somehow worthy of our admiration.

Why, funk de fino, you are alleging that the BBC is presenting both sides of the argument!

Especially, maybe you'd better start watching telly again. It seems that it's changed since you formed your earlier opinion.

[Sledge]

English courts have used French in the past:


Well, something like French.

Source: Dyer's Reports 188b, 1688 edition.


You see! They'll use any trick to avoid the honest English common law words spoken by honest American English Freemen of the Land!

[funk de fino]

Yes, and Prime Minister Brown even promised a Referendum. It's a carrot being dangled in front of us. And the clock is ticking down. We have months to do something. And these actors are playing with us.

The Referendum never comes. It will take the people themselves to protest before it happens.

They want these last few months to expire. But we will not sit back.

You are not British, you can do nothing about it.

Brown promised a referendum on what exactly? I think you are confusing Blair and Brown and the European constitution.

as far back as 2007 Brown said there would be no referendum on this Treaty.

[Agatha]

Prime Minister Brown <snippity> Another Americanism. You may well have been born here, you may well be living here, but your claim to be British is looking shakier by the minute, based on your language and sentence structure.

Though your call for a referendum in which you cannot vote is more interesting to me. How will you make your voice heard, other than on far-flung outposts of the internet?

[Audible Click]

Another Americanism. You may well have been born here, you may well be living here, but your claim to be British is looking shakier by the minute, based on your language and sentence structure.

Though your call for a referendum in which you cannot vote is more interesting to me. How will you make your voice heard, other than on far-flung outposts of the internet?

Speaker's Corner, Hyde Park? ;)

[Agatha]

Now that he has got Blair and Brown mixed up, even standing on a box at Speaker's Corner may prove too challenging.

[Undesired Walrus]

Well, the fact is, NOBODY IN BRITAIN HAS VOTED FOR POLITICAL UNION WITH THE EU. NOBODY.

The closest we came was a few years ago when the Prime Minister promised he would allow the people of Britain a vote on the issue. Decent of him, don't you think ? (Especially since the PEOPLE have the sovereignty of this nation).

But the promise came and it went. They changed their minds.


No. You're confusing it with the vote promised on the EU constitution. As France and Holland rejected it, it never went forward.

[fitzgibbon]

Good Lord. Why's anyone still feeding this troll? Ultima1 was more forthcoming with replies:eye-poppi

[Mojo]

...the PEOPLE have the sovereignty of this nation


Please quote an authority for this proposition (assuming that by "this nation" you mean the UK).

[Agatha]

I don't know about anyone else, Fitzgibbon, but I'm in it for the lulz. Furthermore, I'm making a little list of Especially's more egregious errors.

[Mojo]

I don't know about anyone else, Fitzgibbon, but I'm in it for the lulz. Furthermore, I'm making a little list of Especially's more egregious errors.


I'm also learning a bit about constitutional law (just not from Especially).

[Rolfe]

I am watching BBC2 right now and they are talking about the Lisbon Treaty. Right now.

The Tories are in a dither about it. The BBC are interviewing people and asking them their views on it.


Check. I watched it all too.

Rolfe.

[Sledge]

Good Lord. Why's anyone still feeding this troll? Ultima1 was more forthcoming with replies:eye-poppi

Lulz, and so anyone lurking or casually browsing who might get taken in by the FOTL stuff can see the sort of person supporting it.

[Architect]

Lothian,

Neither the Spanish Armada of 1588 nor the Nazi regime under Adolf Hitler has come so close to occupying and ruling this nation as the EU is about to do.


Of course, some parts of what's now the UK were on the same general side as the Armada and at no risk of invasion. But, of course, you have to understand the difference between "England" and "the UK" to follow this......a basic grounding in the history of the British Isles helps too.

So, basically, Especially is completely knacked.

[Architect]

To be fair, I believe he is in the Uk. But he does not pay VAT because is it a statutory tax and is not part of the law of England and Wessex and has not been consented to by the elected kings of England...or something.

I'll go for him being son of a US serviceman who's spent a lot of time here. It would explain the 40 miles from Glasgow reference, which would pick up Holy Loch (amongst others).

But definitely not a Brit or a product of the UK mainstream education system, as his grasp of basic knowledge of said UK shows.

Proof of the old proverb B'fhearr a bhi samhach na droch dhan a ghabhail, as we say where I come from*


* no, it's actually a real proverb and very polite and no sweary words or anything.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Well, here in England our nation (which has a long history) is today carved up in to 9 administrative regions of a new empire. Called the 'European Union'.


Wait, what?

First of all, the EU doesn't consist of a fractured Britain (or England). Second, the EU consists of 27 "administrative regions", otherwise known as countries, not 9...

[Rolfe]

I'll go for him being son of a US serviceman who's spent a lot of time here. It would explain the 40 miles from Glasgow reference, which would pick up Holy Loch (amongst others).

But definitely not a Brit or a product of the UK mainstream education system, as his grasp of basic knowledge of said UK shows.


This is from the other thread. I rest my case.

I have a number of friends in Australia who tell me differently than you do.


And the string of jokes about the furthest reaches of the eastern branch of the District Line are still going right over his head. (Personally, I estimate Dagenham Heathway.) I still think it's a crying shame they didn't build a station at Havering.

And he still hasn't identified my location, even though, coincidentally, it is about 40 miles from Glasgow.

Rolfe.

[quadraginta]

Check. I watched it all too.

Rolfe.

You guys are obviously watching a different BBC from the one Especially isn't watching.

[quadraginta]

<snip>

Proof of the old proverb B'fhearr a bhi samhach na droch dhan a ghabhail, as we say where I come from*


* no, it's actually a real proverb and very polite and no sweary words or anything.


I ran that through Google Translate and it came out,"B'fhearr a samhach and droch bhi dhan a ghabhail"

Is there any particular reason (other than Scottish not being an option) that the "Detect Language" feature chose Swahili?

ETA: When I tried Irish I got this,
"Bhi samhach prefer to capture the bad poem"

[8den]

No, no it's all true, we ratified Lisbon in Ireland on Friday. Within minutes of Saturday rolling around jack booted EU thugs began enacting cruel vicious laws. Ensuring our potatoes are all regular shaped, babies were pulled out nurseries, injected with the mandatory H1N1 vaccine/evil microchip (The autism rate immediately skyrocketted). Aborted foetus are now on the menu in top Dublin restaurants. There's mass executions if you don't have enough dodgy europop on your IPods. RTE news is showing endless reruns of Spanish sitcoms and Italian Gameshows. We have to give up our seats on buses for the EU bureaucrats, who use our constitution as loo roll, and our tricolour has been cut up and used as napkins.

Considering the Lisbon treaty won't even change your economy, you won't even have the Euro.

[8den]

I ran that through Google Translate and it came out,"B'fhearr a samhach and droch bhi dhan a ghabhail"

Is there any particular reason (other than Scottish not being an option) that the "Detect Language" feature chose Swahili?

ETA: When I tried Irish I got this,
"Bhi samhach prefer to capture the bad poem"

Theres subtle differences between Irish Gaeigle, and Scottish Gaelic. And they're both different to Ulster Scots, which sounds like what the Orcs in Lord of the Rings.

[quadraginta]

Theres subtle differences between Irish Gaeigle, and Scottish Gaelic. And they're both different to Ulster Scots, which sounds like what the Orcs in Lord of the Rings.


Yeah, and "...prefer to capture the bad poem" sounds like the kind of thing an Irishman would say.

[Elizabeth I]

I reckon we're going for some solid Stundie type material here. The definition of the UK is going to be interesting.

You'll never hear it.

I've never met a single Brit who bangs on about the American Revolution as much as Especially. Hell, I don't think most Americans bang on about it that much.

And most of us know that there was no United States in 1776, and in fact didn't formally exist until ratification of the Articles of Confederation in 1781, or if you want to be a real stickler, until 1787, when the current constitution was ratified. I wonder if he's got 1776 confused with 1814?

Mate of mine is (was, as it's effectively cancelled) the producer. And we dinnae speak like thaat.

You mean all my Hamish MacBeth audiobooks are wrong?

No BBC, no Doctor Who. Therefore, BBC good. Debate over.

I wish they'd get on with whatever they're going to do with Dr. Who.

To the extent that a provision of the Charter refers to national laws and practices, it shall only apply to Poland or the United Kingdom to the extent that the rights or principles that it contains are recognised in the law or practices of Poland or of the
United Kingdom.

Why is the U.K. lumped in with Poland?

[MG1962]

Under the UK constitution what is required of the government before they can enter into a treaty?

I am just throwing this out there....but would a good start be actually having a constitution?