Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[Alferd_Packer]

I wonder if Orly has actually sent out all those subpoenas that she made for herself in the Gerogia case?

[Alferd_Packer]

You may view the comment/post at her site , but I warn you, she's known to pass on infections through her fail of a blog.

She IS an infection.

She's a genetic experiment left out in the sun too long.

[NoahFence]

Hang on...

Is there really someone who is flying to Hawaii to challenge this?

LOL!

[NoahFence]

Deleted - read more of this thread.


Unreal. Is this what it would look like if twoofers actually got off their asses and got their little investigation?

[Mojo]

Footnote 1 should be required reading for anyone who ever has to deal with these idiots in court.....


Ah, but see Fardell v. Potts (1924) Herbert's Misleading Cases 11. ;)

[Arus808]

Oldie but goodie: Hawaii Court Transcript from Orly's appearance in Hawaii District Court last week:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78184215/TAITZ-v-FUDDY-Hi-Cir-Ct-Certified-Transcript-1-12-12-Hearing

Just see how much the court has to school Mz.. Taitz on how the law works.

[Arus808]

And Orly has been denined again!


From a Soros agent in Hawaii:
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6342&start=3275#p328819

1: Judge Nishimura was more like what we saw in the video of the 30 November hearing, and not as irritated appearing as last time.
2: No real law school for Orly today. Actually, not a lot of reason to.
3: The hearing ran approximately 45 minutes, mostly because Orly was permitted to read her reply directly into the record. This kept her more focused than normal for the main portion of her argument.
4: Orly reading her reply into the record did result in a great deal of ******* insanity being read into the record.
5: We saw the bulk of the Defendant's argument in the opposition memo that was posted last night.
6: Defendant very firm that a separate sanctions memo will be forthcoming, and indicated that while they will ask for fees, they are primarily interested in the vexatious litigant order because financial sanctions have been shown not to deter Orly, and they do want to avoid wasting time in the future.
7: Orly was very agitated. Talking fast (several times too fast for the court reporter), loudly, shrilly. Very upset at being accused of frivolousness and vexatiousness. Both Judge Nishimura and Ms. Nagamine let her make her position very clear on the record without interruption or objection.
8: Judge Nishimura indicated that it was not completely inappropriate for Orly to have filed an additional motion in this case. Judge Nishimura cited "The Jenkins Ruling" (or possibly "Jenkins Case"). If someone wants to look that up, that would be great. I'm probably not going to have the time to in the next few hours.
9: Judge Nishimura dismissed. She based her dismissal on HRCP Rule 45, which Orly had cited in the motion.
10: Orly attempted at various times to call upon the precedents of Susan B Anthony, Korematsu, and Marbury v Madison.

I really hope that Nagamine gets the vexatious litigant through and the court rules in her favor. Because that would finally be posted to the CA Bar on her profile, and they would have to deal with this failure of a lawyer, finally.

[KDLarsen]

*whack*

The expanded summary, courtesy of AG Holders proxy in Hawaii, is a wonder to behold. I really like how Ms. Nagamine, the defense councel, pointed out that they can't submit a judgement in the case, as Orly keeps filing new motions that have to be resolved first.

She also pointed out, that they're seeking sanctions due to the amount of time they have to spend on Orlys filings. And that much of that time is spent, trying to figure out exactly what it is Orly want from them :rolleyes:

[Chaos]

*whack*

The expanded summary, courtesy of AG Holders proxy in Hawaii, is a wonder to behold. I really like how Ms. Nagamine, the defense councel, pointed out that they can't submit a judgement in the case, as Orly keeps filing new motions that have to be resolved first.

She also pointed out, that they're seeking sanctions due to the amount of time they have to spend on Orlys filings. And that much of that time is spent, trying to figure out exactly what it is Orly want from them :rolleyes:

Really? What Orly wants is very easy to figure out: Get that black man out of the White House.

[Alferd_Packer]

orly's swings for the fence

sent to Deputy Attorney General of HI Jill Nagamine

Posted on | January 15, 2012 | No Comments
Subpoena Fuddy GA January 26
Miss Nagamine,
out of abundance of caution I am serving you yet again with a subpoena for your client to appear at trial on January 26 and for pretrial deposition.
Please, be advised, that I will be seeking sanctions against you, if you do not cease and desist your meritless attacks on me and your continuing defamation of my character in that you are seeking for me to pay your costs in defending forgery and elections fraud by your officials and your requests for judge Nishimura to label me a vexatious plaintiff in the state of HI after bringing only 1 legal action in the state of HI, which is not frivolous, but a legitimate action of seeking inspection of an original document in light of an alleged copy, as well as and my service of subpoena for your client to appear at trial and for pretrial depositions. I will be reporting your actions and actions of your clients to the Oversight committee of the House of Representatives of the U.S. Congress, as well as the Inspector General of the Department of Justice for criminal investigation of violation of civil rights under color of authority, harassment of a civil rights attorney, defamation, obstruction of justice and aiding and abetting forgery and elections fraud.
Sincerely,

–
Dr Orly Taitz ESQ

Of course, it goes without saying that the subpoena she is trying to serve on Hawaii's Deputy Attorney General is not valid outside the state of Georgia.

[Sabrina]

*facepalm*

Seriously, what does it take for this woman to GET A FREAKING CLUE?!?!?

[tsig]

orly's swings for the fence





And hits the umpire in the head.

[tsig]

*facepalm*

Seriously, what does it take for this woman to GET A FREAKING CLUE?!?!?

I suspect it will be about the time the jail cell door slams behind her.

[Horatius]

I suspect it will be about the time the jail cell door slams behind her.



Nope, not even then. She'd be jailhouse lawyering this all the way to the grave....

[cwalner]

Nope, not even then. She'd be jailhouse lawyering this all the way to the grave....

Nah, 5 years at the most (possibly as soon as 1 year). Then her problems will suddenly be resolved without any action needed.

[Arus808]

orly's swings for the fence



Of course, it goes without saying that the subpoena she is trying to serve on Hawaii's Deputy Attorney General is not valid outside the state of Georgia.


want more ultimate fail? Look at the dates on her Subpoena.

Dec 29. This is the subpoena that she just had a hearing on this past friday (and it was denined).

So she wants Nagamine to enforce a subpoena that was denied on Friday, in a letter that she sent out on Saturday.


Hope that Nagamine will include this new letter in her request for sanctions and a reason for her vexatious litigant recommendation.

[Arus808]

This woman needs to be stopped:

orlytaitzesq.com/?p=30430 (link delinked due to malware and spyware on Orly's site):

Please, file a criminal complaint and send it certified mail or FEDEX to grand juries. ...

Corrupt US attorneys, Attorney Generals and District Attorneys are telling you thet those grand juries can indict only when the governmental officials are bringing charges. That is not true. Grand juries can act against the advise of the officials. they are called “runaway grand juries”.

US attorneys, AGs and DAs have to forward to the grand jury criminal complaints, that were filed by you. If they do not do it, they are obstructing justice. For example, you can write to the grand jury in Honolulu and demand to bring criminal indictment against the Director of Health, Registrar, Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General of HI for aiding and abetting forgery of official governmental records, for aiding and abetting election fraud, for obstruction of justice, for violation of civil rights of U.S. citizens under the color of authority. cc your complaint to evey member of the jury, send it to congress, to media, to Inspector General of the department of Justice, Civil rights defenders commission of the United Nations and Inter American commission for Human Rights http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/images/smilies/blackeye.gif . If local DA in Honolulu refuses to bring charges, the grand jury can indict without the DA and make the indictment public. They can even include indictment against the DA, who is engaged in obstruction of justice. Make sure, that your complaint is received. We have seen obstruction of justice, where complants were not forwarded to the Grand Juries.

The same can be done in NH against corrupt Secretary of State, members of the ballot law commission and even 5 judges of the Supreme Court of New Hampshire for aiding and abetting elections fraud and forgery.



she's asking her cavity creeps to now harass officials in Honolulu, to bring indictments against the AG and the HDOH.


:jaw-dropp

[BaaBaa]

"Deputy attorney general Nagamine represents a pinnacle of corruption of a governmental official."


Silly question, what with the whole freedom of speech thing but can that AG whip a libel suit on her?

Also, OT's prose style sucks.

[Arus808]

Here is a video of Orly's fail in Hawaii on Jan. 13, 2012

ztyodl0PFPk

Note: filmed by another birther, so take it with a grain of salt if you see edits that don't make sense. Soros agents at thefogbow.com are getting the court transcripts

[fezzic]

Taitz is obsessed, that's for sure. I doubt that she'd give up on her obsession until her dying day.

[tsig]

Here is a video of Orly's fail in Hawaii on Jan. 13, 2012

ztyodl0PFPk

Note: filmed by another birther, so take it with a grain of salt if you see edits that don't make sense. Soros agents at thefogbow.com are getting the court transcripts

22 minutes of Orly droning on and on does not make for good watching!

[Arus808]

It looks like the Sorensen case in Alabama is shaping up to be a real laugher.


Yup and dismissed, with prejudice, and attorney's fees and costs sought:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/01/jefferson_county_judge_dismiss_2.html

BIRMINGHAM, Alabama -- For the second time in as many weeks, a Jefferson County judge has dismissed a lawsuit challenging President Obama's citizenship and right to be included on Democratic ballots in Alabama.

After a short hearing this morning, Circuit Judge Helen Shores Lee again ruled that the courts have no authority to dictate who can and cannot be included on ballots in the party-run primaries. She dismissed the suit filed last week by Harold Sorensen of Luverne.


http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=6908&view=unread#p330287

The hearing was mostly a non-event. Sorensen filed a Motion to Dismiss his case (without prejudice) first thing this morning and was planning on skipping the hearing. Judge suggested he stick around. Judge Lee then announced that after reading all the motions, she was dismissing the case, not on Sorensen's motion, but on our motion under the "jurisdiction stripping statute." She indicated, however, that the dismissal would be WITH PREJUDICE and that she was awarding us all costs and attorney's fees to be paid within 45 days. I thought Sorensen was going to pass out and he was audibly distressed when she awarded us fees. I was actually afraid that he would have a stroke. Sorensen then told that Judge that he was "a retired senior citizen, who has no money." I then reminded the Judge that Mr. Sorensen had filed a Motion for Recusal which I thought needed to be addressed on the record. The Judge asked Sorensen to stand and explain his recusal motion. Sorensen said that he was "not feeling very well" so Judge let him speak seated at the table. Sorensen said that the recusal was "certainly not about race" but was based on his observation of Judge Lee during the Hendershot hearing. He said that after watching Judge Lee, he knew that he "didn't stand a chance" if she was the judge. He also said that he was just "an old man" who was tired of all of this and wanted to go home and never deal with this again. I then said a few things. I demanded that Sorensen apologize to Judge Lee for his recusal motion, which he did (albeit, accompanied by a short speech about why the citizenship of the President's father meant that the President was not a NBC). I also said that if Mr. Sorensen was truly sincere about quitting this nonsense, that we would forego attempting to recover fees and costs, but if he filed another case or even collaborated with the filing of another case, or even got on the internet and complained about Judge Lee or how she handled this case, then we would come after him for the full amount. Judge Lee will enter a formal order later today.

Barry A. Ragsdale

[Alferd_Packer]

Sorensen: "I'm an old man Waaa Waaa Waaa. The uppity judge was on my lawn. Waaaa waaa waaaa"

[KDLarsen]

Oh dear, poor Orlana. The latest email from Jill Nagamine, the defense councel in Hawaii:
I am in receipt of two emails that you sent me on Saturday morning. Thefirst is entitled “subpoena” and is dated 01/15/2012 at 3:11a.m. Hawaii-Aleutian Standard Time (HST) [1:11 a.m. PST]. The second is entitled”subpoena, I am not sure the attachment went through before, resubmittingit” and is dated 01/15/2012 at 3:17 a.m. HST [1:17 a.m. PST]. The second hasan attachment.

This is to inform you that I do not plan to open these or any futureemails or attachments that you send me, because my computer was adverselyinfected with either a virus or malware after I opened your emails on January10-11, 2012. Until then our department’s protection programs haddealt successfully with viruses and malware from other sources, and I hadnot received or opened any e-mails or attachments from you. So althoughI currently have no specific proof that this problem was transmitted withyour e-mails, the conclusion that it was is a reasonable one. Therefore,to avoid future problems I plan to delete all future emails from you withoutopening them.

If you have anything to serve me, please follow the applicable court rulesto do so properly. If you have anything that you would like to bringto my attention quickly, please send your request via facsimile . . . during my office’s regular business hours. Please be advisedthat I do not agree to waive any notice or service requirements to whichI am entitled.

[Chaos]

Is that last paragraph a very polite "stop that crap and start acting like a professional already"?

[Alferd_Packer]

She's not the queen of birthers, she's the queen of mallware.

I seriously think she gets money for hosting mallware on her site.

It's not like her husband doesn't have resources to help her clean up her act.

[KDLarsen]

She's not the queen of birthers, she's the queen of mallware.

I seriously think she gets money for hosting mallware on her site.

It's not like her husband doesn't have resources to help her clean up her act.
The owner/admin of her previous website wrote a blog post a while ago, explaining just why he had to take control of that site from her. She was basically giving carte blanche to malicious third party software on the website, and since it was registred in his name, he felt he had an obligation to stop it. Naturally, she sued.

I'll see if I can dig up a link.

Edit: 1111 posts. I should quit JREF now :)

Edit2: Ze link: http://defendourfreedoms.net/2009/04/12/understanding-the-internet-102.aspx

[Horatius]

Is that last paragraph a very polite "stop that crap and start acting like a professional already"?



Having both read and written such "polite" reminders in my own work, that's how I would read it :D

[Agatha]

The transcript of the hearing on the 13th is up at Scribd: http://www.scribd.com/doc/78593442/TAITZ-v-FUDDY-Certified-Transcript-of-1-13-12-Hearing-11-1731fb

It is a thing of beauty, particularly Taitz's misstatement (to be fair, this also could be a mistake on the part of the court reporter) on page 8 lines 17-19. Is the evidence requested irrelevant? No. When the natural born citizen status is being decided, the original birth certificate is not relevant.

Apparently, as well as emailing the original subpoenas once again to Ms Nagamine rather than serving them correctly, Taitz has also filed a further motion in Taitz vs Fuddy. The docket says: "RECEIVED-EX PARTE AMENDED MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION UNDER 60B" filed pro se, late on Friday. No copy of the motion yet, but if she wants to be declared a vexatious litigant, she's certainly going about it the right way.

[Alareth]

At this point I'm going to chalk Orly's actions up to a severe concussion resulting to continually smashing her head against the wall of reality.

[Arus808]

Orly haz a mad about Alabama, and Racism:

orlytaitzesq.com/?p=30475 (delinked because of malware currently on her site):

MORE ENSLAVEMENT OF THE US CITIZENS BY “ALL THE USURPER’S MEN” THROUGH “NO JURISDICTION”
Posted on | January 17, 2012 | No Comments

The enslavement of the US citizens continues in Alabma. A judge in Birmingham Alabama, judge Lee, dismissed a second law suit challenging usurper Obama, claiming “no jurisdiction”. First case in AL was filed by Al Hendershott. Al called me only a few days before the Democrat party of AL filed a motion to show cause, why the law suit should not be dismissed. I told Al, that we have little time and I need pro hac vice, a right for an out of state attorney to appear before the court. I submitted the application, but Judge Lee never even responded. Al requested extension of time to bring an out of state attorney, however the judge denied his request for additional time and rushed to dismiss his case. I told Al, that it is clear this judge is hostile. Usually, a judge will give time to a pro seplaintiff to find an attorney, particularly because he said that he is indigent. Judges all over the country are bending over backwards to accommodate indigent individuals, particularly when individuals are bringing a case of violation of civil rights. If it would have been a black person, claiming violation of his civil rights, this judge would be screaming bloody murder, she would be forwarding the information to the department of Justice.

---

Ladies and gentlemen, this is called reverse discrimination and corruption. After judge Lee rushed to dismiss Al’s case without giving him an opportunity to bring an attorney, the same judge refused to recuse herself from a similar case filed by Harold Sorenson. Typically judges recuse themselves from cases, when asked, as their docket is full, they are happy to have less of a load, and they do not want charges of bias. Lee refused to recuse herself from Sorensen case, as this angry woman was on a mission. She stated, that she has no jurisdiction. Ladies and gentlemen, judges have vast powers. When judges want to hear the case, they find a way to do so...[S]he dismissed the case, did not forward the information of elections fraud to DA and AG, she became complicit of misprision of felony and embarrassed Mr. Sorenson, told him, that he has to apologise to corrupt and lying accomplice of Obama, chairman of Alabama Democratic party, who placed a usurper with a forged birth certificate and a stolen social security number on the ballot, she threatened this senior citizen and a veteran, that if he does not promise not to bring another case against Obama and does not apologise to these criminals, she will throw the book at him and will assess him costs of their time used to defend this fraud and forgery...


Yes the judge is at fault for no allowing you to represent someone in a state that you are not licensed to practice law in. And its her fault that she is black and a democrat.

[Alareth]

Can we revoke Orly's citizenship?

It only seems fair as that's what she is hellbent on doing to Obama.

[cwalner]

Orly haz a mad about Alabama, and Racism:

orlytaitzesq.com/?p=30475 (delinked because of malware currently on her site):




Yes the judge is at fault for no allowing you to represent someone in a state that you are not licensed to practice law in. And its her fault that she is black and a democrat.

Actually, I am guessing that the real reason for the expediency is the remedy sought. They want to remove Obama from the ballot. In order to resolve this before the issue is moot, some haste is necessary.

[tsig]

Orly haz a mad about Alabama, and Racism:

orlytaitzesq.com/?p=30475 (delinked because of malware currently on her site):




Yes the judge is at fault for no allowing you to represent someone in a state that you are not licensed to practice law in. And its her fault that she is black and a democrat.

Orlys' conspiracy seems to be widening including more and more judges, how soon till it reaches the ultimate and she and a few close friend are the only one's not in on it and she's watching her friends closely?

[Sabrina]

Can we please just deport this woman back to her own country?

She's an embarrassment to the law profession and needs to be stopped.

[KDLarsen]

Actually, I am guessing that the real reason for the expediency is the remedy sought. They want to remove Obama from the ballot. In order to resolve this before the issue is moot, some haste is necessary.
Their own bloody fault for taking their sweet time. As the counsel for the Democratic Party of Alabama pointed out, the plaintiff in the first case was being overly slow in getting his paperwork done, despite knowing perfectly well that the defendant had a deadline this week.

IIRC that suit was filed in October, and a hearing could easily have been arranged before New Year's. Instead the plaintiff left it very late and subsequently requested an extension.

[cwalner]

Their own bloody fault for taking their sweet time. As the counsel for the Democratic Party of Alabama pointed out, the plaintiff in the first case was being overly slow in getting his paperwork done, despite knowing perfectly well that the defendant had a deadline this week.

IIRC that suit was filed in October, and a hearing could easily have been arranged before New Year's. Instead the plaintiff left it very late and subsequently requested an extension.

Makes even more sense then. Nobody likes to be jerked around and have their time wasted because some idiot can't get her act together. Judges just happen to be in a unique position to do something about it when it happens to them.

[Paul]

how soon till it reaches the ultimate and she and a few close friend are the only one's not in on it and she's watching her friends closely?Hey Orly, the SIS are everywhere.

[Myron Proudfoot]

Did Orly finally find a judge lacking enough sense to tell her to get lost?

ATLANTA - A judge has ordered President Barack Obama to appear in court in Atlanta for a hearing on a complaint that says Obama isn’t a citizen and can’t be president. …

An Obama campaign aide says any attempt to involve the president personally will fail and such complaints around the country have no merit.

The hearing is set for Thursday before an administrative judge. Deputy Chief Judge Michael Malihi on Friday denied a motion by the president’s lawyer to quash a subpoena that requires Obama to show up.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/39800_Georgia_Judge_Says_Birther_Orly_Taitz_Can_Qu estion_President_Orders_Obama_to_Appear_in_Court/comments/#ctop

[R.A.F.]

Can we revoke Orly's citizenship?

Heck with that...she is attempting to over-through the sitting President...I'd call that attempted terrorism...send here to guantanamo.

[Sabrina]

The Office of State Administrative Hearings Docket, in short, states that Dr. Taitz, Esquire of California, will conduct a Direct Examination of President Obama based on the following questions:

Is the candidate’s birth certificate an authentic one issued by the State of Hawaii?;
Is the candidate an Article II natural-born citizen of the United States as established in Minor v. Happersett, 88 U. S. 162 (1874); and
A challenge on O.C.G.A. (Official Code of Georgia) regarding the ‘making of false statements generally,’ i.e., is the candidate’s social security number authentic?

So what's she gonna do when he answers "yes" to all three questions?

[Alferd_Packer]

Did Orly finally find a judge lacking enough sense to tell her to get lost?



http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/39800_Georgia_Judge_Says_Birther_Orly_Taitz_Can_Qu estion_President_Orders_Obama_to_Appear_in_Court/comments/#ctop

no, that is not what happened.

[Alferd_Packer]

The president will not appear in court.

Frankly the Democratic committee lawyer F'd up the motion to quash. I expect that to be fixed soon.

Orly in response is demanding that the judge issue emergency letter rogatory.

She should have done that three weeks ago.

too little, too late.

[Robrob]

A challenge on O.C.G.A. (Official Code of Georgia) regarding the ‘making of false statements generally,’ i.e., is the candidate’s social security number authentic?
I'm flabbergasted (or maybe not) they still cling to that claim. Lexis/Nexus checks of a person by name and DOB often produce more than one SSN - as well as multiple DOB, phone numbers, addresses, etc... It's a database of all those magazine subscriptions, supermarket club card, mailing lists, billing charges, application forms, etc... you and everyone else has ever filled out in the past decade.

It's not a legal document. It's a database of public info.

Think about it. Every typo, misstatement, false statement and outright lie lives on forever in that database. Every time you signed up for a supermarket discount card with a fake name and address - it's in there. Every time some clerk doing data entry made a miss-key - it's in there. Every illegal alien who used a made up SSN to register for school - it's in there.

[Horatius]

Every illegal alien who used a made up SSN to register for school - it's in there.




So, you admit Obama's information is in there? :boxedin:

[Robrob]

So, you admit Obama's information is in there? :boxedin:

Dang, you caught me! Now I have to send the NWO ninjas after you! :mad:

[Horatius]

Dang, you caught me! Now I have to send the NWO ninjas after you! :mad:



"Send"? Dude, where do you think they live?

[boyntonstu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpUwroYiqNg

Georgia ballot.

Judge orders President Obama to appear.

[beren]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpUwroYiqNg

Georgia ballot.

Judge orders President Obama to appear.

Good luck with that.

[Horatius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpUwroYiqNg

Georgia ballot.

Judge orders President Obama to appear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EinxdXg_-k

OBAMA Birth Certificate Trial Update of Oct 5

Birthers nuts?

I don't think so.


You should really change your user name to Sisyphus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus).

[KDLarsen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpUwroYiqNg

Georgia ballot.

Judge orders President Obama to appear.
Except he did no such thing. He merely denied a rather poorly written Motion to Quash. Come monday, I wouldn't be surprised if Perkins Coie has an extremely watertight Motion to Quash ready, combined with 100 lines of mr. Jablonski apologising to Judge Malihi for delivering such a poor Motion in the first place.

Mark my words: Outside one of Obamas PR guys thinking it might be a good PR stunt, President Obama will not be appearing at the Georgia hearing on Thursday.

And the Birthers' heads will asplode. Especially Orlana who have invested a fair bit of time and money on this hearing.

[Alferd_Packer]

for those that doubt the racial basis to this, the following is posted on the website of one of the plaintiffs in Georgia:

http://www.riseupforamerica.com/images/564_GA-WHITE-HOUSE.gif


that particular flag only existed from 1956 to 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_%28U.S._state%29

[Robrob]

for those that doubt the racial basis to this, the following is posted on the website of one of the plaintiffs in Georgia

I suspect racism is the psychological underpinning of the whole "birtherism" nonsense. Interesting Clinton (and to a lesser extent Bush) were accused of wanting to institute a NWO (which is at least a political CT) but not so much Obama. Most of the nuttery about him concentrates on an "out of Africa" or "crypto-Muslim" focus.

[Hans]

I suspect racism is the psychological underpinning of the whole "birtherism" nonsense. Interesting Clinton (and to a lesser extent Bush) were accused of wanting to institute a NWO (which is at least a political CT) but not so much Obama. Most of the nuttery about him concentrates on an "out of Africa" or "crypto-Muslim" focus.

...and the socialist and communist focus too

[Myron Proudfoot]

...and the socialist and communist focus too

A Communist-Socialist-Nazi-Fascist-Athiest-Muslim! (who has been to Mars!)

[cwalner]

A Communist-Socialist-Nazi-Fascist-Athiest-Muslim! (who has been to Mars!)

Its a classic horror movie from the 50's called Godless Nazis from the Red Planet. Most modern audiences don't find it quite as terrifying as the only thing that happens in the movie is a black man becomes President.

[Sabrina]

I realize it's early on Monday, but is anyone aware if a new Motion to Quash has been filed with the court that is worded better than the first?

[KDLarsen]

Nothing mentioned on the Fogbow yet, although we did get a 200+ pages whopper of a Amicus brief, courtesy of Leo Donofrio. Leo must be pleased that he's not involved in this trial, as the judge has asked that parties limit themselves to 25 pages at most.

Elsewhere, it is noted that Obama will spend the 26th in Las Vegas and Denver, before heading to Detroit for the evening.

Edit: Just for laughs, here's a zinger from the brief:
Additionally, the English common law term, “natural-born subject”, being a uniquely spiritual designation, was only granted to members of the Christian faith,and cannot govern the definition of “natural born Citizen”, because such a construction would be repugnant to the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution.

[Alareth]

Oh look, the Birthers went and got themselves a PAC

http://freethoughtblogs.com/assassin/2012/01/25/birther-pac/

Anyone want to see how long it takes to have Orly try latching onto that kind of funding?

[KDLarsen]

IIRC Orly has a bit of a mad at the Article 2 SuperPAC, since it's diverting money away from her PayPal. And you do not mess with Orly's PayPal! And I can't honestly remember if Orly is a De Vattelite like the SuperPAC, or if she's against it since it could be used to dismiss her preferred candidates. Y'know, the WASP's (or in Romneys case, WASLDS).

At least they might be providing a Live stream of tomorrows hearing, though I'm not sure if the recent change of venue means that won't be possible-

[KDLarsen]

And on the eve of the Trial of the Millenium(tm), mr. Jablonski delivers a bombshell: He is suspending his and his clients involvement in this hearing, as there is nothing further to discuss or debate. The relief being sought by the plaintiffs are clearly outside the scope of the ALJ, nor can the GA Sec of State remove Obama from the PPP ballot - ballots that have already been printed and are being used for absentee voting.

Hon. Brian P. Kemp

Georgia Secretary of State

214 State Capitol
Atlanta, Georgia 30334

via email to Vincent R. Russo Jr., Esq.


Re: Georgia Presidential Preference Primary Hearings

Dear Secretary Kemp:

This is to advise you of serious problems that have developed in the conduct of the hearings pending before the Office of State Administrative Hearings. At issue in these hearings are challenges that allege that President Obama is not eligible to hold or run for re-election to his office, on the now wholly discredited theory that he does not meet the citizenship requirements. As you know, such allegations have been the subject of numerous judicial proceedings around the country, all of which have concluded that they were baseless and, in some instances – including in the State of Georgia - that those bringing the challenges have engaged in sanctionable abuse of our legal process.

Nonetheless, the Administrative Law Judge has exercised no control whatsoever over this proceeding, and it threatens to degenerate into a pure forum for political posturing to the detriment of the reputation of the State and your Office. Rather than bring this matter to a rapid conclusion, the ALJ has insisted on agreeing to a day of hearings, and on the full participation of the President in his capacity as a candidate. Only last week, he denied a Motion to Quash a subpoena he approved on the request of plaintiff’s counsel for the personal appearance of the President at the hearing, now scheduled for January 26.

For these reasons, and as discussed briefly below, you should bring an end to this baseless, costly and unproductive hearing by withdrawing the original hearing request as improvidently issued.

It is well established that there is no legitimate issue here—a conclusion validated time and again by courts around the country. The State of Hawaii produced official records documenting birth there; the President made documents available to the general public by placing them on his website. “Under the United States Constitution, a public record of a state is required to be given ‘full faith and credit’ by all other states in the country. Even if a state were to require its election officials for the first time ever to receive a ‘birth certificate’ as a requirement for a federal candidate’s ballot placement, a document certified by another state, such as a ‘short form’ birth certificate, or the certified long form, would be required to be accepted by all states under the ‘full faith and credit’ clause of the United States Constitution.” Maskell, “Qualifications for President and the “Natural Born” Citizenship Eligibility Requirement,” Congressional Research Service (November 14, 2011), p.41.

Nonetheless, the ALJ has decided, for whatever reason, to lend assistance through his office—and by extension, yours—to the political and legally groundless tactics of the plaintiffs. One of the attorneys for the plaintiffs has downloaded form subpoenas which she tried to serve around the country. Plaintiff’s attorney sent subpoenas seeking to force attendance by an office machine salesman in Seattle; seeking to force the United States Attorney to bring an unnamed “Custodian of Records Department of Homeland Security” to attend the hearing with immunization records; and asking the same U.S. Attorney to bring the same records allegedly possessed by “Custodian of Records of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.” She served subpoenas attempting to compel the production of documents and the attendance of Susan Daniels and John Daniels, both apparently out of state witnesses, regarding Social Security records. She is seeking to compel the Director of Health for the State of Hawaii to bring to Atlanta the “original typewritten 1961 birth certificate #10641 for Barack Obama, II, issued 08.08.1961 by Dr. David Sinclair…,” even though Hawaii courts had dismissed with prejudice the last attempt to force release of confidential records on November 9, 2011. Taitz v. Fuddy, CA No. 11-1-1731-08 RAN.

In Rhodes v. McDonald, 670 F. Supp. 2d 1363, 1365 (USDC MD GA, 2009), Judge Clay Land wrote this of plaintiff’s attorney:

When a lawyer files complaints and motions without a reasonable basis for believing that they are supported by existing law or a modification or extension of existing law, that lawyer abuses her privilege to practice law. When a lawyer uses the courts as a platform for political agenda disconnected from any legitimate legal cause of action, that lawyer abuses her privilege to practice law….

As a national leader in the so-called ‘birther movement,’ Plaintiff’s counsel has attempted to use litigation to provide the ‘legal foundation’ for her political agenda. She seeks to use the Court’s power to compel discovery in her efforts force the President to produce a ‘birth certificate’ that is satisfactory to herself and her followers.” 670 F. Supp. 2d at 1366.

All issues were presented to your hearing officer—the clear-cut decision to be on the merits, and the flagrantly unethical and unprofessional conduct of counsel—and he has allowed the plaintiffs’ counsel to run amok. He has not even addressed these issues—choosing to ignore them. Perhaps he is aware that there is no credible response; perhaps he appreciates that the very demand made of his office—that it address constitutional issues—is by law not within its authority. See, for example, Flint River Mills v. Henry, 234 Ga. 385, 216 S.E.2d 895 (1975); Ga. Comp. R. & Regs. r. 616-1-2-.22(3).

The Secretary of State should withdraw the hearing request as being improvidently issued. A referring agency may withdraw the request at any time. Ga. Comp. R. & Regs. r. 616-1-2-.17(1). Indeed, regardless of the collapse of proceedings before the ALJ, the original hearing request was defective as a matter of law. Terry v. Handel, 08cv158774S (Superior Court Fulton County, 2008), appeal dismissed, No. S09D0284 (Ga. Supreme Court), reconsideration denied, No. S09A1373. (“The Secretary of State of Georgia is not given any authority that is discretionary nor any that is mandatory to refuse to allow someone to be listed as a candidate for President by a political party because she believes that the candidate might not be qualified.”) Similarly, no law gives the Secretary of State authority to determine the qualifications of someone named by a political party to be on the Presidential Preference Primary ballot. Your duty is determined by the statutory requirement that the Executive Committee of a political party name presidential preference primary candidates. O.C.G.A. § 21-2-193. Consequently, the attempt to hold hearings on qualifications which you may not enforce is ultra vires.

We await your taking the requested action, and as we do so, we will, of course, suspend further participation in these proceedings, including the hearing scheduled for January 26.

Very truly yours,

MICHAEL JABLONSKI
Georgia State Bar Number 385850
Attorney for President Barack Obama

Should be fun watching. If you're anywhere near GA, you may want to find some hearing protection, as the screeches will reach epic proportions.

[KDLarsen]

.. and as it turned out, the GA Sec of State fired back, warning Jablonski that removing his participation from the hearing, would be at his own peril. So it's definantly on.

[Sabrina]

Oy.

This is turning into a debacle of EPIC proportions...

[KDLarsen]

Anyone interested in watching the train wreck that is Orly Taitz legal carreer, can follow it live from 9 AM EST. For a change, it's being streamed live at http://www.art2superpac.com/livevideo.html - so selective editing will very difficult.

[Alferd_Packer]

I had to share this

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6763787063_e178decc6a_o.jpg

[Alferd_Packer]

Well todays little birther clown circus in Georgia is now over.

Apparently the when Orly was tryin to sum up, the judge asked her if she was arguing or testifying, so she hoped into the witness stand to give testimony.

[Alferd_Packer]

Oh, and the best part?

The first lawyer up, the first thing he did was to enter both the downloaded COLB and Long Form Birth Certificate from the White House into evidence.

Talk about an "own goal!"

[Alferd_Packer]

Apparently it's even worse. Take this with a grain of salt as it is from a birther site

Dean Haskins on the Scene at Hearing

As we are trying to get a quick lunch, and then do some interviews, this is just a very brief synopsis of what happened today. Before the hearing started, the judge called the attorneys into his chambers and explained that he was going to enter a default judgment in their favor. Attorneys Hatfield and Irion requested to be able to present abbreviated versions of their arguments so that they would be on the record. At that point, Irion estimated he would need 20 minutes, Hatfield estimated he would need 30 minutes, and Taitz estimated she would need 2 hours.

Van Irion and Mark Hatfield made their arguments, and left. Taitz then presented her argument, calling several witnesses, until the judge asked her to make her closing statement. As her closing statement began, the judge asked if she was testifying, and, in an unconventional move, Taitz took the witness stand to testify. The judge finally asked her just to make her closing statement, which she did.

We believe that the default judgment automatically translates into the judge's recommendation to the Sec. Of State being that Obama should not appear on the ballot in Georgia.

So what did Hatfield and Irions do? They entered into evidence the very documents that disproved their case!

D'oooh


Judge Malihi is in a total bind now. I guess he didn't understand the depths of stupidity and insanity among birthers. Now he owns it.

[cwalner]

We believe that the default judgment automatically translates into the judge's recommendation to the Sec. Of State being that Obama should not appear on the ballot in Georgia.
Even if this is correct, does this apply to just the primary, the general election, or both?

[Alferd_Packer]

Even if this is correct, does this apply to just the primary, the general election, or both?

just the primary and they have already started the absentee voting - with Obama's name on the ballot.

it's nothing more than political theater.

[cwalner]

just the primary and they have already started the absentee voting - with Obama's name on the ballot.

it's nothing more than political theater.

OK, good. I think Obama can still manage to win the nomination even if struck from the primary ballot in GA.

[Alferd_Packer]

OK, good. I think Obama can still manage to win the nomination even if struck from the primary ballot in GA.

Gee, ya' think?

[cwalner]

Gee, ya' think?

Yes I do.

Other equally sagacious observations and predictions of mine.

The sky is blue
Grass is green.
The sun will rise in the west tomorrow morning.

:p

[Arus808]

We'll have to wait till Feb 5 to see what the Judge says. Sorry that I don't put much stock into any summary given by a birther about anything on a Default Judgment (they have a habit of hearing completely different things when told)

Oh and birthers are eating each other!!!

http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/01/georgia-ballot-hearing-judge-wanted-to.html

Any appeal, if one is even possible, would be based on the evidence provided by the lawyers in each case. Both Van Irion and My lawyer, Mark Hatfield made certain that our cases and evidence in those two cases would be closed so as not to be affiliated, in any way, with “Birther” Orly Taitz. As expected, she was an embarrassment.

[Arus808]

In other Orly news, two of her cases are preparing to be ... dealt with

Taitz v Astrue:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/79516155/TAITZ-v-ASTRUE-APPEAL-USCA-DC-Appellee-S-Motion-for-Summary-Affirmance-Transport-Room

01/19/2012 MOTION filed [1353593] by Michael James Astrue for summary affirmance. (Response to Motion served by mail due on 02/03/2012) [Service Date: 01/19/2012 by US Mail] Pages: 1-10. [11-5304] (Gilbert, Helen)


Taitz v Ruemmler
http://www.scribd.com/doc/79516948/TAITZ-v-RUEMMLER-APPEAL-USCA-DC-Appellee-s-Motion-for-Summary-Affirmance-Transport-Room

01/23/2012 MOTION filed [1354001] by Kathy Ruemmler for summary affirmance. (Response to Motion served by mail due on 02/06/2012) [Service Date: 01/23/2012 by US Mail] Pages: 1-10. [11-5306] (Gilbert, Helen)

[Alferd_Packer]

SHe's also going to get dinged by Hawaii as a vexatious litigant soon.

[Alferd_Packer]

We'll have to wait till Feb 5 to see what the Judge says. Sorry that I don't put much stock into any summary given by a birther about anything on a Default Judgment (they have a habit of hearing completely different things when told)


True. But the best is that they havn't figured out that the two clowns before Orly entered the COLB and long form into evidence.

Now the judge HAS to consider them.

They are hanging their hats on a bogus legal theory.

Silly birthers.

[TSR]

Yes I do.

Other equally sagacious observations and predictions of mine.

The sky is blue
Grass is green.
The sun will rise in the west tomorrow morning.

.
Ummm. "West"?
.

[cwalner]

.
Ummm. "West"?
.

Typo?:o

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Typo?:o


I just figured you were referencing the planet that Orly lives on. :cool:

[Arus808]

bwhaha. Orly is sooooo busy, that she can't even keep current on her CURRENT cases. Due to her failing to pay a filing fee, the Taitz v Ruemmler looks to be dismissed:

01/23/2012CLERK'S ORDER filed [1354161] considering Clerk order of docketing fee payment [1343896-2], dismissing case for lack of prosecution, No mandate shall issue. [11-5329]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/79515160/In-RE-ORLY-TAITZ-USDC-D-C-Order-of-Dismissal-Transport-Room

By order filed November 23, 2011, Petitioner was directed to file payment of docketing fee or file a motion to proceed on appeal in forma paupers, and it appearing that no response has been received from Petitioner. Upon consideration of the foregoing, it is

ORDERED that this case be dismissed for lack of prosecution. See D.C. Cir. Rule 38.

No mandate shall issue.

[Arus808]

Looks like another birther case in Hawaii will be dismissed:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/79293367/SUNAHARA-v-HI-DOH-et-al-HI-CIR-CT-Motion-to-Dismiss

Defendants request that this Honorable Court dismiss Plaintiffs complaint. This request is made on the basis that the Plaintiffs complaint fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. Plaintiff has been provided with a computer-generated abstract of the birth certificate he seeks. There is no provision in either section 338-13 or 338-18, HRS or Chapter 92F, HRS that entitles Plaintiff to obtain a certified copy of Virginia Sunahara's original birth certificate or to have access to that original. In addition, the Director's authority to provide computer generated abstracts when fulfilling valid requests for vital records is contained in sections 338-13(a) and©, HRS, and Defendants did not violate the rule making requirements of HAP A when that authority was established. Finally, allowing Plaintiff and/or his representative to obtain the requested relief and be present at the copying, duplication, or reproduction of the requested records would frustrate a legitimate government function.

this was another attempt to do a fishing expedition in the records of the HDOH

[Arus808]

More fail from Orly: Taitz v Fuddy, Orly files an Ex-Parte Motion for Reconsideration.

The best is that she had put "Granted" on the last page, to which Judge Nishimura crossed it out and stamped DENIED across the first page and last page

http://www.scribd.com/doc/79442733/TAITZ-v-FUDDY-DENIED-Amended-Ex-Parte-Amended-Motion-for-Reconsideration-Under-60-B

this was a request to enforce the unenforceable subpoena's from Georgia.

[Alferd_Packer]

this was another attempt to do a fishing expedition in the records of the HDOH

A rather creepy one at that.

[casebro]

Looks like Taitz may have a valid case this time. Seems that once upon a time the SCOTUS said that "natural born" means BOTH parents are citizens. Which B.O. admits his father was NOT.

And, Georgia has the rule that to be listed on the ballot, candidates have to meet the requirements of the office.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=obama%20georgia%20andreson&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CHMQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheintelhub.com%2F2012%2F01%2F26% 2Fpotus-gets-a-failure-to-appear%2F&ei=hY8kT7TDE_DYiAKM1tGcCA&usg=AFQjCNEx8CprJMbSSDaedRe9cbPbsO8WmQ&cad=rja

And if the Georgia court finds that, I'd think a lot of other states just might too.

Interim President Joe in the wings? And Hillary just put in her notice that her leaving the State Department in imminent...

Politics is sure entertaining.

[jhunter1163]

Oh, FFS. Are people still on about this crap?

[Babbylonian]

Looks like Taitz may have a valid case this time. Seems that once upon a time the SCOTUS said that "natural born" means BOTH parents are citizens. Which B.O. admits his father was NOT.
If that's what the founders meant, that's what they would have written, e.g. "...must be born of two United States citizens." Given that it would have disqualified several American Presidents who were born of English subjects, I don't think that's what they meant.

[Upchurch]

You just had one birther thread moved to CT after it was definitively shown that you bought into a complete hoax. Now, you're starting a new thread citing a birther website as a creditable story?

Just take this garbage to CT. That's all it is.

[Redtail]

Looks like Taitz may have a valid case this time. Seems that once upon a time the SCOTUS said that "natural born" means BOTH parents are citizens. Which B.O. admits his father was NOT.

And, Georgia has the rule that to be listed on the ballot, candidates have to meet the requirements of the office.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=obama%20georgia%20andreson&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CHMQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheintelhub.com%2F2012%2F01%2F26% 2Fpotus-gets-a-failure-to-appear%2F&ei=hY8kT7TDE_DYiAKM1tGcCA&usg=AFQjCNEx8CprJMbSSDaedRe9cbPbsO8WmQ&cad=rja

And if the Georgia court finds that, I'd think a lot of other states just might too.

Interim President Joe in the wings? And Hillary just put in her notice that her leaving the State Department in imminent...

Politics is sure entertaining.

Not as entertaining as the desperate straw clutching of the butthurt.

[Moss]

For a nation at least partially founded by immigrants fleeing religious persecution the United States of today seem to have surprisingly many hangups about what immigrants and their children are allowed to do.

[Puppycow]

I like how they refer to him as "the almighty dictator". Hilarious stuff! :sdl:

[ANTPogo]

Looks like Taitz may have a valid case this time.

No, she doesn't.

Seems that once upon a time the SCOTUS said that "natural born" means BOTH parents are citizens. Which B.O. admits his father was NOT.

No, they didn't. And if you think otherwise, perhaps you'd like to name the case?

At any rate, the Vattelist argument was part of the case made by the other two lawyers at the hearing in Georgia, not Taitz. Taitz is harping on the stupidity that is the claim that Obama's Hawaii-issued and Hawaii-verified birth certificate is a forgery.

And, Georgia has the rule that to be listed on the ballot, candidates have to meet the requirements of the office.

And if the Georgia court finds that, I'd think a lot of other states just might too.

You also thought that two completely fraudulent emails from three years ago were both valid and recent, so perhaps you might want to recognize that your judgment in these matters is somewhat less than reliable.

Interim President Joe in the wings?

Did you even read the replies in your other thread?

And Hillary just put in her notice that her leaving the State Department in imminent...

She's been talking about leaving her position as Secretary of State at the end of her current term for two years (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/01/clinton-suggests-shes-a-oneterm-secretary-of-state/) now.

Politics is sure entertaining.

Not half as entertaining as your Epic Fail about it.

[SpitfireIX]

Oh, FFS. Are people still on about this crap?


People are still on about FDR's allegedly LIHOPing Pearl Harbor. :rolleyes:

[SpitfireIX]

If that's what the founders meant, that's what they would have written, e.g. "...must be born of two United States citizens."


Not necessarily.

Given that it would have disqualified several American Presidents who were born of English subjects, I don't think that's what they meant.


Incorrect. They were all grandfathered in.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. [bolding mine]

[casebro]

This all from an email citing "Graig Andresen" (sp?)

The email, a full page or two, seems to be written as if a reporter was in court, things like "then so-and-so said..." Seems to be pretty verbatim of coverage of a court preceding.

"Testimony regarding the definition of Natural Born Citizen is given citing Minor vs Happersett opinion from a Supreme Court written opinion from 1875. " Why that case made it to the SCOTUS makes me wonder, because so far as I know "natural born citizen" is only a requirement for Pres. Not no other post, elected or appointed, or top secret security.

Folks, this point is different than the usual Birther stuff. This is NOT about birthplace. It is about the SCOTUS definition of the qualification for President.

I can cut and paste the whole email, if forum rules permit? It credits an author, but no credentials, E.I., particular journal.

The link above seems similar, though not as blow-by-blow of the whole court proceeding.

[Moss]

This bloke? (http://www.thenationalpatriot.com/?tag=craig-andresen)
(http://www.thenationalpatriot.com/?tag=craig-andresen)

[Upchurch]

Folks, this point is different than the usual Birther stuff. This is NOT about birthplace. It is about the SCOTUS definition of the qualification for President.

That is the usual birther stuff. You're arguing that Obama doesn't meet the qualifications to be President when he does. Old news. Let it go.

[Babbylonian]

Not necessarily.
Why not? It would have so easy to write - clear, concise...

Instead they used the words "natural born citizen" which would seem obviously to be in contrast to a "naturalized citizen." The first is someone who obtains citizenship by either being born to a US citizen and the second is someone who becomes a citizen through legal means established by Congress.

From the 14th amendment:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.There's the distinction.

It's also possible to be a citizen from birth (IOW, "naturalization" would be unnecessary) if born to a US citizen in another country, though those rules are more complicated and vary whether the US citizen parent is the mother or the father. For example, under US law (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1409.html) (paragraph c), President Obama would have been considered a US citizen whether he had been born to his mother (a US citizen) in Hawaii or Kenya or the Principality of Monaco.

Man, it's weird being back in the conspiracy theory section. I think I need to get out of here before I need a good brainwashing.

[casebro]

Upchurch, so far as I know, all other arguments were regarding birth place.

This is the first case to mention "Minor vs Happersett", requiring both parents to be citizens.

Not a BIG CONSPIRACY, but seems to be a report of a court hearing.

Why don't some of you go read up on "Minor vs Happersett" ? I will.

[Pup]

Actually, it looks like the judge specifically said he wasn't going to rule whether children of non-citizen parents, born on U.S. soil, were citizens, because it didn't matter for this particular case (which was about the rights of women to vote).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0088_0162_ZO.html


The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens. The words "all children" are certainly as comprehensive, when used in this connection, as "all persons," and if females are included in the last they must be in the first. That they are included in the last is not denied. In fact the whole argument of the plaintiffs proceeds upon that idea.

[ANTPogo]

This all from an email citing "Graig Andresen" (sp?)

The email, a full page or two, seems to be written as if a reporter was in court, things like "then so-and-so said..." Seems to be pretty verbatim of coverage of a court preceding.

What court proceeding?

"Testimony regarding the definition of Natural Born Citizen is given citing Minor vs Happersett opinion from a Supreme Court written opinion from 1875. " Why that case made it to the SCOTUS makes me wonder, because so far as I know "natural born citizen" is only a requirement for Pres. Not no other post, elected or appointed, or top secret security.

Something which Minor v Happersett explicitly punted on, and therefore cannot be cited as any kind of definitive ruling or decision about what the Supreme Court thought of the citizenship status of someone born in the US to one or more noncitizen parents.

To wit:
The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts.

(And on edit, I see that Pup beat me to the excerpt)

The entire case was about a woman, Virginia Minor, suing to be allowed the right to vote before women were legally allowed to vote, because she asserted that as a citizen under the 14th Amendment, she had all the "privileges and immunities" of such a citizen, including the right to vote.

The case had absolutely zip to do with who counted as a "natural born citizen" and who didn't, nor did it have anything to do with qualifications for the presidency.

Folks, this point is different than the usual Birther stuff. This is NOT about birthplace.

Actually, it's exactly the usual Birther stuff. Minor has been misread and twisted by Birthers for years...this isn't anything new.

It is about the SCOTUS definition of the qualification for President.

Which, as noted above, Minor doesn't say a damned thing about.

I can cut and paste the whole email, if forum rules permit? It credits an author, but no credentials, E.I., particular journal.

And so instead of realizing that's suspicious and wanting to research some more about it, you instead come here wanting to cut-and-paste the text of it as if it means something dramatic, new, and earthshattering?

[NotJesus]

Upchurch, so far as I know, all other arguments were regarding birth place.

Then what you know is wrong.

Not a BIG CONSPIRACY, but seems to be a report of a court hearing.

I got an email that seems to be from a girl who wants to date me. I'm not going to follow up on that either.

Why don't some of you go read up on "Minor vs Happersett" ? I will.

Feel free to join the rest of us in 2012 when you're done.

[Pup]

(And on edit, I see that Pup beat me to the excerpt)

If two of us can come up with the ruling, by doing the amazing task of googling Minor v Happersett, and quote the same relevant passage by coincidence, it makes one wonder why the OP couldn't do the same.

[casebro]

Link: < http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/minor-v-happersett-is-binding-precedent-as-to-the-constitutional-definition-of-a-natural-born-citizen/ >

While it is a discussion blog, he did go back and edit some fallacies out.

"It is incorrect to state that Mrs. Minor lost the case entirely. This is not true. The US Supreme Court did not hold that the Constitution granted voting rights to men while denying such rights to women. The Court in Minor held that the Constitution did not grant anybody a right to vote, man or woman.

But in doing so, the US Supreme Court first had to determine if Mrs. Minor was a US citizen. The Court’s holding states that she was a US citizen because she was born in the US to parents who were citizens."

So, that logic should be pretty easy to follow.

Whether Georgia courts, or any other, decide that it is pertinent is something worthy of discussion. Probably by Constitutional Scholars.

But the reason I posted it initially was that I thought it was news that a court was actually considering a Birther suit.

If the court upholds the argument, then the whole concept of "Birther C T" goes out the window, doesn't it? It's no Theory if it is found to be legal fact.

[Dunstan]

Why don't some of you go read up on "Minor vs Happersett" ? I will.

Yes, be sure to read this part:

[quote]The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their

Page 88 U. S. 168

parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. [quote]

(emphasis added). Also note that the actual decided in Minor v. Happersett was that women did not have the right to vote under the federal Constitution, a holding that has been superseded by the Nineteenth Amendment.

So you've managed to cite a case that isn't good law on the one issue on which it was actually binding precedent at one point. Even by birther standards, that's impressive incompetence.

[leftysergeant]

If the court upholds the argument, then the whole concept of "Birther C T" goes out the window, doesn't it? It's no Theory if it is found to be legal fact.

Since Minor v Happerset did not state specificly which definition applies, we have to assume that the more liberal is stare dicisus and orly and her shrieking monkeys can go throw poo someplace else than in our courts.

[ANTPogo]

Link: < http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress....-born-citizen/ >

While it is a discussion blog, he did go back and edit some fallacies out.

That's Leo Donofrio's blog. All he has are fallacies.

He's been struggling (and repeatedly failing miserably) to pursue the Vattelist argument in the courts for years now.

But in doing so, the US Supreme Court first had to determine if Mrs. Minor was a US citizen. The Court’s holding states that she was a US citizen because she was born in the US to parents who were citizens."

So, that logic should be pretty easy to follow.

Not when the decision, as pointed out above, explicitly says it's not addressing any means of gaining citizenship but the one possessed by Virginia Minor. So it can't be used as a basis for determining anything about those other means of obtaining citizenship.

The logic of that should be pretty easy for you to follow.

But the reason I posted it initially was that I thought it was news that a court was actually considering a Birther suit.

If the court upholds the argument, then the whole concept of "Birther C T" goes out the window, doesn't it? It's no Theory if it is found to be legal fact.

If you're talking about the case in Georgia, it's not a "court". It's an administrative hearing held before an administrative judge. And the only "ruling" that the judge can issue is a completely non-binding recommendation to the Georgia Secretary of State about whether Obama should be on the ballot for the Democratic primary in that state.

[leftysergeant]

I googled Donofrio.

Sakrament noch Mal!:boggled:

[tsig]

This all from an email citing "Graig Andresen" (sp?)

The email, a full page or two, seems to be written as if a reporter was in court, things like "then so-and-so said..." Seems to be pretty verbatim of coverage of a court preceding.

"Testimony regarding the definition of Natural Born Citizen is given citing Minor vs Happersett opinion from a Supreme Court written opinion from 1875. " Why that case made it to the SCOTUS makes me wonder, because so far as I know "natural born citizen" is only a requirement for Pres. Not no other post, elected or appointed, or top secret security.

Folks, this point is different than the usual Birther stuff. This is NOT about birthplace. It is about the SCOTUS definition of the qualification for President.

I can cut and paste the whole email, if forum rules permit? It credits an author, but no credentials, E.I., particular journal.

The link above seems similar, though not as blow-by-blow of the whole court proceeding.

Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875), was a United States Supreme Court case appealed from the Supreme Court of Missouri concerning the Missouri law that said, "Every male citizen of the United States shall be entitled to vote."
Virginia Minor, a leader of the women's suffrage movement in Missouri, alleged that the refusal of Reese Happersett, a Missouri state registrar, to allow her to register to vote was an infringement of her civil rights under the Fourteenth Amendment.
Contents [hide]
1 Decision
2 Subsequent history
3 See also
4 References
5 Further reading
6 External links
[edit]Decision

The Supreme Court of the United States, on appeal from The Supreme Court of Missouri, upheld the Missouri voting legislation, saying that the limitation of suffrage to male citizens was not an infringement of Minor's rights under the Fourteenth Amendment. The opinion first asked whether Minor was a citizen of the United States, and answered that she was, citing both the Fourteenth Amendment and earlier common law. It then asked whether the right to vote was one of the "privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" at the time of that Amendment's adoption in 1868. Citing a variety of historical sources, it found that it was not.



ETA: horse, beating, dead.

[Upchurch]

Upchurch, so far as I know, all other arguments were regarding birth place.
Nope. The claim that both parents had to be citizens has been floated. The claim that his mother was too young has been floated. The claim that Hawaii hadn't been a state long enough has been floated.

I've seen all of these and I'm not even following the issue all that closely anymore.

At this point, there is nothing new under the sun. It's all been tried and it's all failed. Let it go. The man is legally President. Neither he nor anyone else had done anything improper in putting him on the ballot.

[crimresearch]

Link: < http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/minor-v-happersett-is-binding-precedent-as-to-the-constitutional-definition-of-a-natural-born-citizen/ >

While it is a discussion blog, he did go back and edit some fallacies out.

"It is incorrect to state that Mrs. Minor lost the case entirely. This is not true. The US Supreme Court did not hold that the Constitution granted voting rights to men while denying such rights to women. The Court in Minor held that the Constitution did not grant anybody a right to vote, man or woman.

But in doing so, the US Supreme Court first had to determine if Mrs. Minor was a US citizen. The Court’s holding states that she was a US citizen because she was born in the US to parents who were citizens."

So, that logic should be pretty easy to follow.

Whether Georgia courts, or any other, decide that it is pertinent is something worthy of discussion. Probably by Constitutional Scholars.

But the reason I posted it initially was that I thought it was news that a court was actually considering a Birther suit.

If the court upholds the argument, then the whole concept of "Birther C T" goes out the window, doesn't it? It's no Theory if it is found to be legal fact.
Explain how any court is going to make Eric Holder the US Attorney General a year before he got the job, put Pakistan on a *no travel* list, change the Minor wording from 'born to parents who are citizens' into 'must be born to 2 parents who are citizens', and otherwise turn all the bullhockey you've been posting into reality?

And you just threw away the excuse of 'I didn't know it was wrong' by repeating things that were biotchslapped in the other thread (like Donofrio) so hard that you *knew* they were whacko lies.

[CptColumbo]

This is still ignoring the fact that the Judicial Branch does not have the power to remove a President from office.

[Chaos]

For a nation at least partially founded by immigrants fleeing religious persecution the United States of today seem to have surprisingly many hangups about what immigrants and their children are allowed to do.

For a nation at least partially founded by and for whites holding blacks as slaves, it is absolutely NOT surprising how many people have hangups about allowing a black man to become president.

[Mojo]

Link: < http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/minor-v-happersett-is-binding-precedent-as-to-the-constitutional-definition-of-a-natural-born-citizen/ >

While it is a discussion blog, he did go back and edit some fallacies out.

"It is incorrect to state that Mrs. Minor lost the case entirely. This is not true. The US Supreme Court did not hold that the Constitution granted voting rights to men while denying such rights to women. The Court in Minor held that the Constitution did not grant anybody a right to vote, man or woman.

But in doing so, the US Supreme Court first had to determine if Mrs. Minor was a US citizen. The Court’s holding states that she was a US citizen because she was born in the US to parents who were citizens."

So, that logic should be pretty easy to follow.


Indeed it should.

The question is whether a person born in the US of parents who are not both citizens is a "natural born" citizen. What is being cited is a decision that says that persons born in the US of parents who are both citizens are "natural born" citizens. It explicitly says that it was not necessary to consider any other situation because the plaintiff fell into this category.
It therefore makes no decision about the status of a person born in the US whose parents are not both citizens.

Say that we were arguing over whether chickens are birds. Could you use a court decision saying that ducks are birds, but making no decision about chickens, to show that chickens are not birds?

[Alferd_Packer]

Looks like Taitz may have a valid case this time. . . .words

You aren't even following the case very well, are you?

Orly didn't make the Mv.H argument. As near as any rational person can figure out, Orly's disjointed, rambling screech of an argument was that the birth certificate was forged, or that the President was not the same person as on the birth certificate, or something like that.

THe Minor argument was made by the other lawyer, the avowed neo-confederate Irions.

In any event, this case hasn't got a chance in hell of success.

The birthers still managed to lose to an empty table.

[Alferd_Packer]

This is still ignoring the fact that the Judicial Branch does not have the power to remove a President from office.

Never argue fact with a birther, it makes their heads explode.

[Alferd_Packer]

ANd Casebro, are you aware that two of the attorneys for the plaintiffs in last Thursday's hearing introduced copies of the COLB and the long form birth certificate into evidence and stipulated that they accepted them as real and genuine?

Talk about torpedoing your own case.

[Agatha]

Farrar is claiming (wrongly) that the cases were three separate ones, so that evidence introduced by van Irion and Hatfield don't apply to his case, and the items introduced by Orly stand on their own with no reference to the COLB or LFBC. Still, if you have the worst attorney in the world, you get what you deserve.

[Alferd_Packer]

Farrar is also claiming: “All of the facts, documents and testimony entered into evidence during this hearing will have to been taken by the judge as the absolute truth, period. In a court of law, uncontested testimony is the truth.”

[Horatius]

Farrar is also claiming: “All of the facts, documents and testimony entered into evidence during this hearing will have to been taken by the judge as the absolute truth, period. In a court of law, uncontested testimony is the truth.”




So the Birthers have started channelling the Freemen on The Land?

[KDLarsen]

Farrar is also claiming: “All of the facts, documents and testimony entered into evidence during this hearing will have to been taken by the judge as the absolute truth, period. In a court of law, uncontested testimony is the truth.”
Quite amusing. Based on that, it's the absolute truth that Obama was born in Hawaii, just as it's the absolute truth that he wasn't born there :boggled:

[Alferd_Packer]

So the Birthers have started channelling the Freemen on The Land?

Farrar has flirted with the SovCits in the past.

[Arus808]

Link: < http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/minor-v-happersett-is-binding-precedent-as-to-the-constitutional-definition-of-a-natural-born-citizen/ >

While it is a discussion blog, he did go back and edit some fallacies out.

Its still wrong.

"It is incorrect to state that Mrs. Minor lost the case entirely. This is not true. The US Supreme Court did not hold that the Constitution granted voting rights to men while denying such rights to women. The Court in Minor held that the Constitution did not grant anybody a right to vote, man or woman.
Wrong again. Its womans voting rights case. the dicta said that they weren't going to solve these doubts:

DICTA:
The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts.


But in doing so, the US Supreme Court first had to determine if Mrs. Minor was a US citizen.The supreme court did nothing of the sort. The determination was never at issue. No one disputed that Minor was a citizen because of her birth. The issue was that with citizenship does that afford the right to vote(especially for WOMEN at the time)?

The supreme court only weighed on that issue, and that issue alone.

Here citizenship was established agreed upon by both sides in the LOWER court. This was an appeal to the Supreme Court of a lower courts findings


The Court’s holding states that she was a US citizen because she was born in the US to parents who were citizens."
Nope. it wasn't in the holding.

this is exactly what the Supreme Court found:
Being unanimously of the opinion that the Constitution of the United States does not confer the right of suffrage upon any one, and that the constitutions and laws of the several States which commit that important trust to men alone are not necessarily void, we AFFIRM THE JUDGMENT.Please show us where in their holding did they mention natural born citizenship.

also, please show us where in the decision that they ruled Minor to be a natural born citizen (hint: they didn't. they only said in dicta that she was a citizen by virtue of her birth).

[Arus808]

You aren't even following the case very well, are you?

Orly didn't make the Mv.H argument. As near as any rational person can figure out, Orly's disjointed, rambling screech of an argument was that the birth certificate was forged, or that the President was not the same person as on the birth certificate, or something like that.

This is her claim:

Barack Obama and Barry Soetoro are two different people. That the person in office is actually Barry Soetoro, who took the name Barack Obama (she never explained how or why) because two images from Barack/Barry childhood look "different". She never explains what happened to the real Barack Obama.

And that the COLB, the SSN are the result of a 50 year conspiracy to put Barry Soetoro into office.

Yes its actually the MOST crazy birther claim we have heard; I think she's watched The Manchurian Candidate and Invasion of the Body Snatchers a little too much.


THe Minor argument was made by the other lawyer, the avowed neo-confederate Irions.

In any event, this case hasn't got a chance in hell of success.

The birthers still managed to lose to an empty table.


And from real legal scholars:
http://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2009/10/14/president-chester-a-arthur-and-the-birthers-1880%E2%80%99s-style/

To cite Minor v. Happersett as the definitive statement of the meaning of the phrase “natural born citizen” is to exhibit an unfortunate lack of understanding of the Supreme Court’s 1874 decision in that case.

The Minor case involved Virginia Louisa Minor’s constitutional challenge to the Missouri law that limited voting to adult males. Her unsuccessful argument was that the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee of the equal protection of the laws prohibited the state of Missouri from denying women the right to vote.

Ms. Minor was born in Caroline County, Virginia on March 27, 1824. Both of her parents were born in Virginia in the 1790′s, and all of her grandparents had been born in the Virginia colony. (One of her grandmothers was a cousin of President James Madison.) Consequently,the issue of whether or not she was a national born citizen had nothing to do with the case.

To latch on the comments made by Chief Justice Waite in passing and to claim that those comments are somehow definitive is simply absurd. Moreover, as Prof. Fallone pointed out in an earlier comment, Waite specifically stated that it was not necessary to define natural born citizen to resolve the case at hand.

[Multivac]

Quite amusing. Based on that, it's the absolute truth that Obama was born in Hawaii, just as it's the absolute truth that he wasn't born there :boggled:

Then he must be a Quantum President!

[LSSBB]

Then he must be a Quantum President!

He is therefore 50% born in America. There is also a real yet approaching infinitismal probability, depending on the construction of his wave function, that he has or will appear on Mars.

[ANTPogo]

He is therefore 50% born in America. There is also a real yet approaching infinitismal probability, depending on the construction of his wave function, that he has or will appear on Mars.

The White House categorically denies that Obama has ever been to Mars.

Really. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45878146/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/conspiracy-theory-obama-went-mars-teen/)

[Arus808]

Transcripts from the Georgia Hearings:

Farrar v Obama ( Georgia - Farrar, et al. v Obama - Certified Transcript 1-26-12 Hearing tfb (http://www.scribd.com/doc/79854011/Georgia-Farrar-et-al-v-Obama-Certified-Transcript-1-26-12-Hearing-tfb) ) - represented by Orly Taitz

Swensson/Powell v Obama ( Georgia - Swensson|Powell v Obama - Certified Transcript 1-26-12 Hearing tfb (http://www.scribd.com/doc/79854466/Georgia-Swensson-Powell-v-Obama-Certified-Transcript-1-26-12-Hearing-tfb) )

Weldon v Obama ( Georgia - Welden v Obama - Certified Transcript 1-26-12 Hearing tfb (http://www.scribd.com/doc/79854233/Georgia-Welden-v-Obama-Certified-Transcript-1-26-12-Hearing-tfb) )

[Paul]

The White House categorically denies that Obama has ever been to Mars.The best thing about the story is that if you're British it was filed as an April fool from the future.

[Alferd_Packer]

Orly's transcript (http://www.scribd.com/doc/79854011/Georgia-Farrar-et-al-v-Obama-Certified-Transcript-1-26-12-Hearing-tfb)
is just too funny.

"faster, faster, down lower, lower. . . . "

She also repeatedly forgot to say the magic words: "You honor, I'd like to move to enter this exhibit into the record." so that NONE of her exhibits were entered into the record as evidence.

[JoeB]

I guess this isn't a totally new angle, but it's new (and hilarious) to me.

Titus: What’s important is to realize that being a natural born citizen is based upon the law of nature. Any natural law is based on a law of nature which is revealed by God. And the notion is that no one is accidentally born in any particular nation to any particular parent. You’re not born by accident, you’re born by design. And who’s the designer? Well, God’s the designer. So if you’re born of two parents, that is a mother and father, who are of the same citizenship, then you have been ordained by God to be a citizen of the nation of your parents. That’s why he’s a natural born citizen. So, there’s a design in this that goes all the way back to scriptural principles.

Schneider: Dr. Titus, when this issue has come up time and time again to either the president or his press secretary, they are now referring to the long-form birth certificate that they released in 2011. In your opinion, does the presentation of this long-form certificate, as they have given it and said, ‘See, there’s the evidence,’ in your opinion does this satisfy the matter?

Titus: Well, I think it does if your definition of natural born citizen is that the parents have to be citizens of the United States. Because the form that was produced by the Obama administration indicates that his father was not an American citizen. Where people said, where race usually you put ‘black’ but it has ‘African.’ Well, it shows that he had a national citizenship that was not the United States. So, you don’t need anything more than the evidence that’s already been furnished by the Obama administration themselves. You don’t have to go behind it, you don’t have to determine whether it’s a fraudulent certificate. It says it on its face.

…

Titus: The people have a responsibility here to make sure that the Constitution is followed as it is written. I mean, if people don’t like the natural born citizen requirement, then they can amend the Constitution. I think in this particular case, it demonstrates why the natural born citizen requirement is so important, because I think this president does have a divided loyalty. I think he is more loyal to his African father than he is to the American nation, and I think that’s been well-documented.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/biblical-birthers-titus-claims-bible-says-obama-ineligible-presidency

[Alferd_Packer]

I guess this isn't a totally new angle, but it's new (and hilarious) to me.


Welcome to birther logic, where up is down, dicta is a holding, holdings are dicta, insinuations are evidence, prima facie means face first (ie. face plant), frivolous is portentous, natural is unnatural, but, black is always black and white is always white.

[Lucian]

This is her claim:

Barack Obama and Barry Soetoro are two different people. That the person in office is actually Barry Soetoro, who took the name Barack Obama (she never explained how or why) because two images from Barack/Barry childhood look "different". She never explains what happened to the real Barack Obama.


Didn't he replace the original Paul McCartney in the Beatles?

[ArmillarySphere]

This is her claim:

Barack Obama and Barry Soetoro are two different people. That the person in office is actually Barry Soetoro, who took the name Barack Obama (she never explained how or why) because two images from Barack/Barry childhood look "different". She never explains what happened to the real Barack Obama.


He grew up to be Bruce Wayne.

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2961

[Alareth]

Obama is ineligible to be President because the Bible says he's not a natural born citizen ...

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/biblical-birthers-titus-claims-bible-says-obama-ineligible-presidency

[Sabrina]

*facepalm*

It never ends...

ETA: Who wants to bet this nonsense will continue well past the time when President Obama is no longer President (whether that be one or five years from now)? What will birthers be hoping to achieve then; the invalidation of everything he accomplished with the help of Congress and the Supreme Court (since he didn't do it all alone)?

[jhunter1163]

Then he must be a Quantum President!

Schrodinger's President?

Orly's transcript (http://www.scribd.com/doc/79854011/G...12-Hearing-tfb)
is just too funny.

"faster, faster, down lower, lower. . . . "


Thinking about Orly saying that put me off my lunch.

[Sabrina]

Eeeewwww.... damn you jhunter!

Now I have to go scrub my brain out with bleach!!!

[ANTPogo]

A regular over at the Fogbow has this as his sig:

"Keep going, keep going -- higher -- no down, down little bit. No up, up, go up... More, more, more, more, more. Stop, stop... Let's go further. Keep going quickly, move, down, down, down, down. Keep going, keep going, keep going. More, more, more. Yes, stop. No, stop, stop, stop." - Orly Taitz, from certified court transcripts

I'm thinking of asking if I can market it as a diet aid. Or an ipecac.

[Horatius]

*facepalm*

It never ends...

ETA: Who wants to bet this nonsense will continue well past the time when President Obama is no longer President (whether that be one or five years from now)? What will birthers be hoping to achieve then; the invalidation of everything he accomplished with the help of Congress and the Supreme Court (since he didn't do it all alone)?



I figure it will be incorporated into various tax protestor and/or "Freeman" or "Sovereign Citizen" arguments. It will be yet another reason why tax laws, or any other laws they don't like, are invalid. And just like all their other "reasons", they'll just ignore the fact that it has been shown to be flawed hundreds of times before.

[Alferd_Packer]

Well, the three stooges (lawyers for the plaintiffs) have filed their "findings of facts and conclusions of law" and as expected they all totally failed to follow the proscribed format for the filing.

One of Orly's claims is that the Wong Kim Ark decision by SCOTUS is not controlling in this case because it was not a unanimous decision.

Sha also claims that WKA is not valid because: "It was rumored, that Gray's commission and subsequent decision in Kim Ark was done to sanitize Arthur's own lack of eligibility."

[Horatius]

Sha also claims that WKA is not valid because: "It was rumored, that Gray's commission and subsequent decision in Kim Ark was done to sanitize Arthur's own lack of eligibility."



Did she really advance the legal theory that court rulings should be subservient to gossip?!? :eye-poppi:jaw-dropp:boggled:

[Arus808]

Well, if you want to take a gander at her "findings of FAct" (and when you read it, you'll be scratching your head at what "fact" that she found), here you go:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/80169403/2012-02-01-FARRAR-Proposed-Findings-of-Fact-and-Conclusions-of-Law

Love this gem:

It appears that for a period of two years there were two distinct separate individuals: Barry Obama, who attended Noelani elementary school in Hawaii and Barry Soetoro, who attended Assisi school in Indonesia. It is not clear, how these two individuals merge into one person. It is not clear, who came back from Indonesia: Barry Obama or Barry Soetoro. We have no idea, who is residing in the White House: is it Barry Obama or Barry Soetoro? If it is Barry Soetoro, what happened to Barry Obama?

Since when is a court charged with doing YOUR investigation?


Oh and this one is a hoot: Wong Kim Ark isn't precedent, because the Supreme Court wasn't unanimous in their decision:

d. Kim Ark was not an unanimous decision. Chief Justice Melville Fuller and Associate Justice John Harlan dissented, pointing out that since the Declaration of the Independence, U.S. parted from the British Common Law doctrine of jus solis and followed the international doctrine of jus sanguinis, with offspring inheriting the nationality and allegiance of their fathers.



The rest of the filings can be found here:
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=7178#p336808

[KDLarsen]

*facepalm*

It never ends...

ETA: Who wants to bet this nonsense will continue well past the time when President Obama is no longer President (whether that be one or five years from now)? What will birthers be hoping to achieve then; the invalidation of everything he accomplished with the help of Congress and the Supreme Court (since he didn't do it all alone)?
Well, there's already a small subsection of birthers dedicated to keeping Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal away from their WHITE house. An even smaller part of the NBC-crowd are adamant that Romney isn't eligible either.

I figure it will be incorporated into various tax protestor and/or "Freeman" or "Sovereign Citizen" arguments. It will be yet another reason why tax laws, or any other laws they don't like, are invalid. And just like all their other "reasons", they'll just ignore the fact that it has been shown to be flawed hundreds of times before.
Speaking of SovCits, Walter Fitzpatricks latest filing is a sight to behold. 106 pages of SovCit speak and 196 pages of exhibits.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/80145568/WALTER-FITZPATRICK-III-v-BIVINS-et-al-EDTN-Complaint
http://www.scribd.com/doc/80146244/WALTER-FITZPATRICK-III-v-BIVINS-et-al-EDTN-Exhibits-tned-16702010518

I really feel for whoever has to untangle the legalese in this paragraph:
Walter Fitzpatrick III and his next friend named herein are one of the Sovereign people of Tennessee who's status is defined in Chisolm v. Georgia and 2 Corinthians 5:20 and are not a legal fiction, US INC. vessels, in rem constructive trust, corporate entity or any other artificially constructed fraudulent construct as denoted by the unauthorized spelling of affiant's family name and Walt Fitzpatrick Ill's family name in all capital letters as spelled on State Identification paperwork without explanation. Affiant and Walter Fitzpatrick III reserves all rights in law and equity /commerce and wishes to compel production of documentation specific to the establishment of the jurisdiction of the agent, principal and or agency and agents causing the incarceration of Walter Fitzpatrick III and ascertain the evidence of any constitutionally compliant oath of office, proof of bonding and delegation of authority for or on the record in their possession before a neutral notary officer to verify identity of anyone responding to this writ and representing himself or herself as a government officer or agent prior to the commencement of any proceeding challenging the claims on this writ to avoid implications of "de facto officer doctrine".

[erwinl]

Well, there's already a small subsection of birthers dedicated to keeping Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal away from their WHITE house. An even smaller part of the NBC-crowd are adamant that Romney isn't eligible either.


Speaking of SovCits, Walter Fitzpatricks latest filing is a sight to behold. 106 pages of SovCit speak and 196 pages of exhibits.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/80145568/WALTER-FITZPATRICK-III-v-BIVINS-et-al-EDTN-Complaint
http://www.scribd.com/doc/80146244/WALTER-FITZPATRICK-III-v-BIVINS-et-al-EDTN-Exhibits-tned-16702010518

I really feel for whoever has to untangle the legalese in this paragraph:
:eye-poppi:eye-poppi:eye-poppi

Does it talk about two persones or one? It looks about two persons to me (I'm totally non legalese gifted), but the verbs are singular. Wouldn't that invalid the claim? :)
And Mr. Fitzpatrick being called by his full forename, but once being called Walt? I think that would also invalid the document. ;)

If the rest is the same, it doesn't look too good for mr. Fitzpatrick .

[Captain_Swoop]

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God

[Alferd_Packer]

All I can take away from that is that WALT's not a boat.

[Border Reiver]

Walter Fitzpatrick III and his next friend named herein are one of the Sovereign people of Tennessee who's status is defined in Chisolm v. Georgia and 2 Corinthians 5:20 and are not a legal fiction, US INC. vessels, in rem constructive trust, corporate entity or any other artificially constructed fraudulent construct as denoted by the unauthorized spelling of affiant's family name and Walt Fitzpatrick Ill's family name in all capital letters as spelled on State Identification paperwork without explanation. Affiant and Walter Fitzpatrick III reserves all rights in law and equity /commerce and wishes to compel production of documentation specific to the establishment of the jurisdiction of the agent, principal and or agency and agents causing the incarceration of Walter Fitzpatrick III and ascertain the evidence of any constitutionally compliant oath of office, proof of bonding and delegation of authority for or on the record in their possession before a neutral notary officer to verify identity of anyone responding to this writ and representing himself or herself as a government officer or agent prior to the commencement of any proceeding challenging the claims on this writ to avoid implications of "de facto officer doctrine".

Translation: Walt Fitzpatrick is from Tennessee, and wants to see the ID of the Court Officers before this gong show gets underway. Walt's going to try and make a legal argument that is based on a very flawed understanding of the legal system and will succeed in doing nothing but annoying the court, and any members of the public viewing this with the common sense that is commonly found in boiled potatoes. *

*Not intended to be insulting to that most noble of vegetables.

[Mojo]

Translation: Walt Fitzpatrick is from Tennessee, and wants to see the ID of the Court Officers before this gong show gets underway. Walt's going to try and make a legal argument that is based on a very flawed understanding of the legal system and will succeed in doing nothing but annoying the court, and any members of the public viewing this with the common sense that is commonly found in boiled potatoes.


Shouldn't that be "...will succeed in doing nothing but annoying the court, and amusing any members of the public viewing this with the common sense that is commonly found in boiled potatoes"?

[KDLarsen]

All I can take away from that is that WALT's not a boat.
A shame really, seing as he's a former US Navy officer :p

[Border Reiver]

Shouldn't that be "...will succeed in doing nothing but annoying the court, and amusing any members of the public viewing this with the common sense that is commonly found in boiled potatoes"?

It'll be amusing for about 5 minutes, then the thought, "Is there a point to all this, or is he really that ignorant?" will enter their minds. After a half hour the thoughts will change to "Just get on with it already, I had to take the day off work to testify for the NEXT case and if this keeps up I'm gonna have to call the boss about tomorrow as well..." will strike, and finally the people in the court will be thinking, "Look, we'll all rush him and beat him to death with his own lower intestine if he doesn't stop this farce soon - gotta get home and make dinner for the family."

[Alferd_Packer]

one of the birthers posted his picture at one of the birther sites



It makes you want to smack him upside the head with a dead halibut, don't it?
EDIT
well. So much for hot linking.

He yanked it.

LOL

[Arus808]

And in other news, the Illinois Ballot challenge by Michael Jackson, has been denied.

Waiting for a link (to a non birther website) that has a summary of the hearing today.

[Alferd_Packer]

One more court decision nail in the coffin

“The eligibility requirements to be President of the United States are such that the individual must be a “natural Born Citizen” of the United States and at least thirty-five years of age. U.S. Const. art. II, § 1. It is well settled that those born in the United States are considered natural born citizens. See, e.g., United States v. Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702 (1898) (“Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,’ . . . and thus eligible for the presidency,” Hollander v. McCain, 566 F. Supp. 2d 63 (D.N.H. 2008). Thus, Mr. Tisdale’s contention that President Obama, Governor Romney, and Congressman Paul are not eligible to be President due to their nationalities is without merit. “
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.vaed.275608/gov.uscourts.vaed.275608.2.0.pdf

[Alferd_Packer]

The verdict is in the birthers lost to an empty table.

[Arus808]

Georgia Hearing : Obama is a Natural Born Citizen

http://www.scribd.com/doc/80417613/Farrar-Welden-Swensson-Powell-v-Obama-Judge-Malihi-Final-Decision-Georgia-Ballot-Challenge-2-3-2012

Plaintiffs allege that President Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States and, therefore, is not eligible to run in Georgia's presidential primary election.

snip

For the purpose of this section's analysis, the following facts are considered: 1) Mr. Obama was born in the United States; 2) Mr. Obama's mother was a citizen of the United States at the time of his birth; and 3) Mr. Obama's father was never a United States citizen. Plaintiffs contend that, because his father was not a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth, Mr. Obama is constitutionally ineligible for the Office of the President of the United States. The Court does not agree.

In 2009, the Indiana Court of Appeals ("Indiana Court") addressed facts and issues similar to those before this Court. Arkeny v. Governor, 916 N.E.2d 678 (Ind. Ct. App. 2009). In Arkeny, the plaintiffs sought to prevent certification of Mr. Obama as an eligible candidate for president because he is not a natural born citizen. Id. at 681. The plaintiffs argued, as the Plaintiffs argue before this Court, that "there's a very clear distinction between a 'citizen of the United States' and a 'natural born Citizen,' and the difference involves having [two] parents of U.S. citizenship, owing no foreign allegiance." Id. at 685. The Indiana Court rejected the argument that Mr. Obama was ineligible, stating that children born within the United States are natural born citizens, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. Id. at 688. This Court finds the decision and analysis of Arkeny persuasive.


the best part of course is Orly's witnesses tear down:

The Court finds the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to be of little, if any, probative value, and thus wholly insufficient to support Plaintiffs' allegations. Ms. Taitz attempted to solicit expert testimony from several of the witnesses without qualifying or tendering the witnesses as experts. See Stephens v. State, 219 Ga. App. 881 (1996) (the unqualified testimony of the witness was not competent evidence)

For example, two of Plaintiffs' witnesses testified that Mr. Obama's birthcertificate was forged, but neither witness was properly qualified or tendered as an expert in birth records, forged documents or document manipulation. Another witness testified that she has concluded that the social security number Mr. Obama uses is fraudulent; however, her investigatory methods and her sources of information were not properly presented, and she was never qualified or tendered as an expert in social security fraud, or fraud investigations in general.

None of the testifying witnesses provided persuasive testimony. Moreover, the Court finds that none of the written submissions tendered by Plaintiffs have probative value. Given the unsatisfactory evidence presented by the Plaintiffs, the Court concludes that Plaintiffs' claims are not persuasive.


that's 5 hearings on Ballot challenges that Birthers have lost.

[KDLarsen]

“[N]either Defendant nor his counsel, Michael Jablonski, appeared or answered. Ordinarily, the Court would enter a default order against a party that fails to participate in any stage of a proceeding. Nonetheless, despite the Defendant’s failure to appear, Plaintiffs asked this Court to decide the case on the merits of their arguments and evidence. The Court granted Plaintiffs’ request.”
:dl::dl::dl::dl::dl:

That smackdown going to leave a mark in the morning.

[tsig]

:dl::dl::dl::dl::dl:

That smackdown going to leave a mark in the morning.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The one thing woos can't do is sit down and shut up.

[Sabrina]

So the birthers lost... to a man who didn't even bother to show up. Or phone it in even.

Wow. That's gonna leave a mark....

[Arus808]

So the birthers lost... to a man who didn't even bother to show up. Or phone it in even.

Wow. That's gonna leave a mark....

Yes, they lost to this:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7153/6814205759_986c9cd0ac_o.jpg


A lawyer who loses to a party that doesn't even show up... That is a big statement of fail ever written.


(credit for images goes to verbalobe of thefogbow)

[Sabrina]

Any reaction from Orly on this?

Not that I care, but the stupid is usually funny.

[Myron Proudfoot]

Any reaction from Orly on this?

Not that I care, but the stupid is usually funny.

It's a plot involving Iran.

I don’t know, what happened to Malhi [sic]. I know, that he is not American by birth., He is Persian, Iranian. The last name and the first names of his parents are all Persian. He is an appointee of the Democrat governor Zell Miller.

The only thing, that I don’t know, is whether it was a set up from the start or whether someone got to him recently. I wonder, if any deal was made, when Obama was pressured with my subpoena and could sell the whole country in order to get out of sure prison term. What was promised to Malihi? Here is some food for thought: recently U.S. was supposed to participate in joint exercises with Israel. Suddenly Obama announced, that U.S. will pull out of the exercises in order not to upset Iran.

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/02/orly-plays-the-race-card/

:eye-poppi

[Moss]

Do I understand that correctly in that they would have won by default but then asked to present their case and lost because of that?

[tsig]

Do I understand that correctly in that they would have won by default but then asked to present their case and lost because of that?

From what the judge said that's my understanding.

[Horatius]

From what the judge said that's my understanding.



Damn, that gives "Own Goal" a whole new meaning! It's like an "Own Penalty Shot", or something....

[Firestone]

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The one thing woos can't do is sit down and shut up.

Do I understand that correctly in that they would have won by default but then asked to present their case and lost because of that?

From what the judge said that's my understanding.

Damn, that gives "Own Goal" a whole new meaning! It's like an "Own Penalty Shot", or something....

:boggled:

If they had shut up, and won the case by default, would that have had any real world consequences?

[KDLarsen]

:boggled:

If they had shut up, and won the case by default, would that have had any real world consequences?
The general agreement amongst those based in the real world was, that it meant that all parties (possibly including Obama/Jablonski) would submit their exhibits and their proposed Findings of Facts & Conclusions of Laws, and the Judge would then make a ruling based on those.

Since Obama/Jablonski was a no-show, that would have saved everyone the time and bother of presenting their case to the court, given that there would be no need for cross-examination and few, if any, objections raised by the opposing counsel.

There are varying opinions on what the ruling would have been in the end though, as the COLB was entered into evidence by one of the plaintiffs anyway, and even then Obama/Jablonski might also have had the opportunity to submit a physical certified copy along with records proving 14 years of residence. Which, barring the Wong Kim Ark/Minor discussion that the Judge himself shot down, would be all that was needed to rule Obama eligible to be on the ballot.

[Captain_Swoop]

Maybe they thought winning by Default wouldn't be convincing?

[Paul]

Well it is a very convincing loss they've managed to achieve.

[Firestone]

The general agreement amongst those based in the real world was, that it meant that all parties (possibly including Obama/Jablonski) would submit their exhibits and their proposed Findings of Facts & Conclusions of Laws, and the Judge would then make a ruling based on those.

Since Obama/Jablonski was a no-show, that would have saved everyone the time and bother of presenting their case to the court, given that there would be no need for cross-examination and few, if any, objections raised by the opposing counsel.

There are varying opinions on what the ruling would have been in the end though, as the COLB was entered into evidence by one of the plaintiffs anyway, and even then Obama/Jablonski might also have had the opportunity to submit a physical certified copy along with records proving 14 years of residence. Which, barring the Wong Kim Ark/Minor discussion that the Judge himself shot down, would be all that was needed to rule Obama eligible to be on the ballot.Thanks.

Poor birthers ... :D

[Alferd_Packer]

FYI, The Georgia Sevretary of State, Brian Kemp, just issued a press release stating that the President is eligible to be president.

LOL

poor birthers.

[cwalner]

The Georgia Sevretary of State
Are they trying to secede again?

[JoeB]

Maybe a touch off topic, but birther Joseph Farrah is under fire from the right now for claiming Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal are ineligible for the presidency on the grounds that their parents weren't citizens at the time of their birth (both in the U.S.).

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/02/02/bipartisan-birtherism-rubio-jindal-farrah-obama/

[KDLarsen]

Maybe a touch off topic, but birther Joseph Farrah is under fire from the right now for claiming Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal are ineligible for the presidency on the grounds that their parents weren't citizens at the time of their birth (both in the U.S.).

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/02/02/bipartisan-birtherism-rubio-jindal-farrah-obama/
Yeah, that's the De Vattel crowd.

Then you have the hardcore Vattelites, who insist that both parents have to be Natural Born Citizens in order for the child to be Natural Born Citizen as well.

One of the birthers have apparently done the homework and come up with 14 different types of citizenship :rolleyes:

[Alferd_Packer]

Maybe a touch off topic, but birther Joseph Farrah is under fire from the right now for claiming Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal are ineligible for the presidency on the grounds that their parents weren't citizens at the time of their birth (both in the U.S.).

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/02/02/bipartisan-birtherism-rubio-jindal-farrah-obama/

I see Tracy, AKA: KenyanBornObama, is there in the comments. That woman is totally nuts and has no life whatsoever other than the birther conspiracy.

[Alferd_Packer]

Then you have the hardcore Vattelites, who insist that both parents have to be Natural Born Citizens in order for the child to be Natural Born Citizen as well.




I wonder when the fundamental illogic of that position will finally occur to them.

[Agatha]

To take their argument to its logical conclusion, only people who can trace every single ancestor on both sides of their family back to people who were grandfathered in as citizens at the time the Constitution was written could be eligible for president. Just one foreign born ancestor, even if that was a hundred years ago, would disqualify a person (and obviously, descendants of slaves or Native Americans are also disqualified). Wong Kim Ark and Lynch v Clarke somehow don't count for these people, and neither does democracy.

[Captain_Swoop]

I see Tracy, AKA: KenyanBornObama, is there in the comments. That woman is totally nuts and has no life whatsoever other than the birther conspiracy.

Everyone needs a hobby.

[Ladewig]

To take their argument to its logical conclusion, only people who can trace every single ancestor on both sides of their family back to people who were grandfathered in as citizens at the time the Constitution was written could be eligible for president.

Do you all think there are any?

I've heard that some New England communities dislike outsiders and some families have lived there for centuries.

[Border Reiver]

Do you really want worshippers of the Old Ones running your country? And how could you be sure that those persons hadn't been bred with the Deep Ones? Cthullu for President.

[Chaos]

Do you really want worshippers of the Old Ones running your country? And how could you be sure that those persons hadn't been bred with the Deep Ones? Cthullu for President.

Absolutely! Why settle for a lesser evil?

[Alferd_Packer]

Apparantly, Orly went to a $500 a ticket fundraiser for Newt.

After suggesting that the birther issue would be a boost to his campaign, she stated: "Somebody who wouldn't be good enough, who wouldn't be certified to pick tomatoes or clean bathrooms is sitting in the White House."

Newt responded: "That's a project you should pursue."

LOL

[KDLarsen]

After suggesting that the birther issue would be a boost to his campaign, she stated: "Somebody who wouldn't be good enough, who wouldn't be certified to pick tomatoes or clean bathrooms is sitting in the White House."
That is some of the most vile and disgusting rhetoric I have ever heard any of the birthers spout.

Orlana must really be losing it, especially after having a few of her ballot challenges tossed, on top of losing the GA hearing.

[KDLarsen]

And Orly's latest dump of bile.
Is Obama’s decision to destroy 80% of our nuclear arsenal, a payoff to an Iranian Muslim judge, who had Obama cornered with no identification papers and let Obama got scot-free???

As you know, Barack Obama was cornered in the state of Georgia on January 26, 2012. .... Even if I were to produce nothing, the judge had to rule in my favor, as Obama did not produce anything to prove his eligibility. I went further and produced 208 pages of evidence and at my own expense of over $11,000 flew 7 witnesses from all over the nation. I flew in another attorneyand computer/projector tech support person, we conducted a mock trial a day before the hearing (some witnesses arrived late due to airport delays and did not participate in mock trial). ...Obama not only was supposed to be removed from the ballot, he was supposed to be sent to prison at the very minimum. When I am saying prison, I am being very generous.

Suddenly this corrupt judge decided that Obama can be on the ballot. I researched the background of this judge and found out that he is an Iranian Muslim, who live in Boston and went to Boston University law school the same time as Obama went to Harvard. There is a good possibility that judge Michael Malihi and Barack Obama knew each other for some time. While there ae bios of every judge in the administrative court of GA, there is no bio for Malihi. There is no evidence of him working for any firms. There is a serious concern, serious question, whether former governor of GA, Democrat Zell Miller got some type of consideration to put Malihi in the position of an administrative judge without Malihi having sufficient experience. More importantly, there is a bigger question, what consideration did Obama give to Malihi, in order to keep Obama on the ballot without any valid identification papers, and not forward all of this information to the DA and AG for criminal prosecution of Obama.
ATTENTIONOrly Taitz's site is notoriously unsafe, do not go there unless you know what you're doing. Malware and worse abound.xxhttp://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=31720

I'd say that's at least the Secret Service, the GA bar, the GA OSAH that ought to take notice. I'd add the CA bar, but history has so far shown that they give rule 10 all about their own rules.

[KDLarsen]

And to round off the midweek madness, we have the appeals/lawsuits against the GA SoS after the smackdown in Georgia. Without going anywhere, see if you can spot the problem...

SWENSSON v OBAMA
POWELL v OBAMA
FARRAR v OBAMA, SECRETARY OF STATE

[Hans]

And to round off the midweek madness, we have the appeals/lawsuits against the GA SoS after the smackdown in Georgia. Without going anywhere, see if you can spot the problem...

SWENSSON v OBAMA
POWELL v OBAMA
FARRAR v OBAMA, SECRETARY OF STATE

ah they left off the 's' after the 'v'? lol. Perhaps Obama holds the SoS as a secret sinecure!

[defaultdotxbe]

ah they left off the 's' after the 'v'? lol. Perhaps Obama holds the SoS as a secret sinecure!
thats standard practice for legal cases

[Alferd_Packer]

And to round off the midweek madness, we have the appeals/lawsuits against the GA SoS after the smackdown in Georgia. Without going anywhere, see if you can spot the problem...*

SWENSSON v OBAMA
POWELL v OBAMA
FARRAR v OBAMA, SECRETARY OF STATE

(Shhhh - Let's see what happens by Friday.)

*Because you know, Obama runs Georgia's Elections

[cwalner]

And Orly's latest dump of bile.


Reading that makes me feel a little sorry for her. She has allowed this issue to so warp her sense of reality, that the possibility that she might be wrong cannot even be conceived of in her mind. In order to protect her delusion, she has to fashion increasingly bizarre conspiracy theories to explain the courts rebuffing her.

[Alferd_Packer]

As for the three stooges "appeal" of the Georgia Ballot challenge. The issue is that none of them, not even Hatfield, the local lawyer who should know better, has properly filed their petitions. (i'm not talking about the fact that they are filled with garbage legal theories, either, I'm talking about some basic procedural issues).

The mistakes are numerous and the sand is slipping down the throat of the hourglass.

I don't want to say much more at this point, but it is going to be interesting what happens over the next week.

[Alferd_Packer]

Apparantly, Orly went to a $500 a ticket fundraiser for Newt.

After suggesting that the birther issue would be a boost to his campaign, she stated: "Somebody who wouldn't be good enough, who wouldn't be certified to pick tomatoes or clean bathrooms is sitting in the White House."

Newt responded: "That's a project you should pursue."

LOL


http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24594&stc=1&d=1329416318

[Arus808]

and Orly is denied again in GA..her failure to follow the rules of the court is becoming easy guess work:

ORDER Denying Taitz's Motion for pro hac vice (http://www.scribd.com/doc/81865925/2012-02-15-FARRAR-v-OBAMA-APPEAL-FCSC-ORDER-Denying-Taitz-Motion-for-Admission-pro-hac-vice)

The majority of the required information set forth above was not included in the Motion for Pro Hac Vice of Ms. Taitz as required by Uniform Superior Court Rule 4.4(E)(1). Moreover, the Motion included no Verification affirming that the applicant read the application, was knowledgeable as to its contents, and that said contents were true. The Motion also failed to demonstrate, through proof of service, that it would be served upon the Office of the General Counsel of the State Bar of Georgia in accordance with Uniform Superior Court Rule 4.4(D).

Farrar, et al. v. Sarack Obama, et al.
Civil Action No. 2012CV211398
Order Denying Motion for Pro Hac Vice
Page 2

Lastly. the Motion did not include the name, Georgia Bar license number, or signature of an
attorney licensed to practice in the State of Georgia who will also be acting as counsel of record in this litigation.

[Arus808]

and in other birther fail news; a prolific birther poster (kenyanbornobamacorn) Tracy Fair, files this absurd ballot challenge in Maryland:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/81882701/2012-01-26-Maryland-FAIR-v-OBAMA-Complaint-Primary-Ballot-Challenge-tfb

complete with the Fake Kenyan birth certificate and the lie that Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro....

[KDLarsen]

Ah yeah, KBOA did say she was going to file - which apparently included dragging a sheriff with her to Washington DC, but we never heard anything about it until now.

As for Orlana, I wonder if there's any news from LA about a massive shriek that suddenly hit the area last night... :rolleyes:

[CptColumbo]

and Orly is denied again in GA..her failure to follow the rules of the court is becoming easy guess work:

ORDER Denying Taitz's Motion for pro hac vice (http://www.scribd.com/doc/81865925/2012-02-15-FARRAR-v-OBAMA-APPEAL-FCSC-ORDER-Denying-Taitz-Motion-for-Admission-pro-hac-vice)

Who is "Sarack Obama?"

[Border Reiver]

Who is "Sarack Obama?"

The POTUS' fully Vulcan brother

[Alareth]

Who is "Sarack Obama?"

The guy in Madalch's avatar

http://forums.randi.org/customavatars/avatar13004_62.gif

[KoihimeNakamura]

He is going through kohlinar right now.

[KDLarsen]

Classic Orlana Taitz in Indiana today. She didn't even have time to open her yapper before she was warned by a state ballot commissioner, that any misrepresentation could be referred for criminal prosecution.

And it all went downhill from there, including getting into a shouting match with the commission, having her 'zibits' eviscerated, and finally unanimously denied.

It was a thing of beauty to behold.

[KDLarsen]

A work-in-progress transcript has mostly kindly provided by a member of the Fogbow: http://bleachandlight.blogspot.com/2012/02/orly-does-indiana.html

[Gord_in_Toronto]

a work-in-progress transcript has mostly kindly provided by a member of the fogbow: http://bleachandlight.blogspot.com/2012/02/orly-does-indiana.html

ms. Riordan: Thank you, mr. Chairman. I've reviewed these materials, and actually they're not 300 pages of sworn testimony. There are several unnumbered pages of proposed findings of fact and conclusions of law, which is a so-called legal document that you drafted, no grounds for admission, 100 percent hearsay. And then we have several pages of typed transcript, which i've read some of, and it's actually pretty ridiculous, but again, 100 percent hearsay, inadmissible, and there are a number of other many illegible documents, totally unclear where they came from, whether they were printed off the internet or just some random other source. Nothing that is appropriately before the commission. There's been no personal authentication or certification or any reason put forth why this body should be taking the public's time to even review these documents for a minute. And so with that, i would ask that unless there's any more discussion, i'd like to call the question on the motion to deny the admission of this evidence so that we can move forward to looking at this on the merits.

ouch!

[jadebox]

ouch!

Goodness, it reads like something from a Monty Python sketch. I wonder if any of it was written in crayon.

-- Roger

[Paul]

"Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!"

[TjW]

I liked this part:

MR. DUMEZICH: Whoa, whoa. Let's stop. Stop right there. Present your case. We're not covering anything up. We're allowing you to speak your mind and putting it before the commission. If you're disrespectful like that one more time, your butt's going to be gone. You got that?

[cwalner]

A work-in-progress transcript has mostly kindly provided by a member of the Fogbow: http://bleachandlight.blogspot.com/2012/02/orly-does-indiana.html

I don't think I have ever been more proud to be a Hoosier than after reading that. :D

[Alferd_Packer]

THe DNC lawyer in Georgia filed his motion to dismiss today.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/82998815/2012-02-27-FARRAR-v-Obama-Brief-in-Support-of-Motion-to-Dismiss

Check out the footnote listing all the birther cases that have been rejected by the court.

it's around two pages long.

The birther fail parade

(And, he missed a couple.)

[KDLarsen]

Looks like Philip Berg is at it again, and with what I think has to be one of more amusingly redundant arguments I've seen:
Evidence points to the fact the Candidate, at the time of birth, was named Barack Hussein Obama, born at Coast Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya located in Coast Province. The Candidate's father was a Kenyan citizen and his mother a United States citizen who was not old enough and did not reside in the United States long enough to register the Candidate's birth in Hawaii as a "natural born" United States citizen
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82987884/2012-02-23-PA-BERG-v-Obama-Primary-Ballot-Challenge-186-MD-2012

[Alferd_Packer]

Orly's latest on the Georgia case:

orly taitz
February 28th, 2012 @ 4:42 am
written like a true Obot. any attorney knows, that what was written by Jablonski is a copmplete garbage and BS. It will be dismissed, if the judge is as corrupt as Malihi and other puppet judges. A lot of corrupt judges belong in prison with Obama. The judge is a liberal Democrat, she will decide for Obama no matter what

[KDLarsen]

Even more interesting is that Orly is apparently going to spend $10,000 to have 49 copies of the GA hearing records certified. All because she was told by the Indiana election commission that her exhibits were useless since they weren't certified.

[Mr.D]

Even more interesting is that Orly is apparently going to spend $10,000 to have 49 copies of the GA hearing records certified. All because she was told by the Indiana election commission that her exhibits were useless since they weren't certified.

Because 50 copies would obviously be excessive? Or is it because she plans on using the copies in suits in the other 49 states? (nevermind the fact that she's missing the point altogether)

[Alferd_Packer]

100% genuine, certified bull flop is still bull flop.

[Kestrel]

Speaking of bull flop, did you see the ballot challenge (http://www.turningleft.net/images/director-for-the-division-of-elections.pdf) filed by Gorden Warren Epperly of Alaska? In addition to the usual birther nonsense, he adds the claim that Obama is not a natural born citizen because of his race.

:boggled:

[cwalner]

Speaking of bull flop, did you see the ballot challenge (http://www.turningleft.net/images/director-for-the-division-of-elections.pdf) filed by Gorden Warren Epperly of Alaska? In addition to the usual birther nonsense, he adds the claim that Obama is not a natural born citizen because of his race.

:boggled:

I loved this phrase: 'Before the [purported] ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment ...'.

Is this joker actually questioning the validity of the 14th Amendment?

[Alferd_Packer]

I loved this phrase: 'Before the [purported] ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment ...'.

Is this joker actually questioning the validity of the 14th Amendment?

There are some nuts out there that have done so.

interesting trivia, did you know that Ohio and New Jersey did not ratify the amendment until 2003?


He is also claiming that a women can not be POTUS also.

[Firestone]

There are some nuts out there that have done so.

interesting trivia, did you know that Ohio and New Jersey did not ratify the amendment until 2003?


He is also claiming that a women can not be POTUS also.That would make the Obama-Biden ticket and the McCain-Palin ticket invalid.
So the legal president since 2009 is ... Ralph Nader!

[cwalner]

There are some nuts out there that have done so.

interesting trivia, did you know that Ohio and New Jersey did not ratify the amendment until 2003?


He is also claiming that a women can not be POTUS also.

I think we should lock him in a room with Carol Mosely-Brown and Condaleeza Rice, so he can explain to them his theories on political eligibility.

[fullflavormenthol]

Well it seems Sheriff Joe Arpaio has gone full menard with the birther crap. The sad fact is that the "evidence" is nothing new, and the same ol' crap consistently debunked by the non insane crowd. Unfortunately the fact that at least one law enforcement official was either crazy or partisan enough to go along with it will make this event the birther equivalent of when the truthers bought that journal article for themselves.

[KDLarsen]

This has been absolutely disgusting to watch.

[The Mutha]

I agree. I had to turn it off before I threw something at my screens...

[KDLarsen]

If the standards of criminal investigations in AZ is anything like this, I foresee a massive flood of requests for retrials in that state very soon.

The lead investigator just stated flat out, that he found it suspicious that a PDF file was sitting on a computer 20 minutes before it was uploaded to the internet.

They were also threading mighty close to a couple of slander lawsuits. Not to mention claiming that they couldn't trust Hawaii officials to conduct a neutral investigation. That's going to go over well.

[Swagomatic]

Well it seems Sheriff Joe Arpaio has gone full menard with the birther crap. The sad fact is that the "evidence" is nothing new, and the same ol' crap consistently debunked by the non insane crowd. Unfortunately the fact that at least one law enforcement official was either crazy or partisan enough to go along with it will make this event the birther equivalent of when the truthers bought that journal article for themselves.

Shurff Joe is in "full distract" mode, trying to deflect attention form his troubles with the Justice Department. Unfortunately, he may be succeeding. The guy seems to be politically invincible. The only upside is the fact that he's 79 years old. He can't possibly last much longer (can he??!!??). :boggled:

[Alferd_Packer]

Joe is a clown who has gotten too fat to fit inside the little car anymore.

The best part about this is that now the GOP owns this.

I can't wait for someone to ask Romney or Santorum about this.

[Brainster]

Joe is a clown who has gotten too fat to fit inside the little car anymore.

The best part about this is that now the GOP owns this.

I can't wait for someone to ask Romney or Santorum about this.

Romney's already on the record (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/04/mitt-romney-vs-birthers):

Mitt Romney forcefully said Tuesday night that he believes President Barack Obama was born in America and that "the citizenship test has been passed."

"I think the citizenship test has been passed. I believe the president was born in the United States. There are real reasons to get this guy out of office," Romney told CNBC's Larry Kudlow the day after he formally announced that he's exploring a run for the White House. "The man needs to be taken out of office but his citizenship isn't the reason why."

[KDLarsen]

It will, of course, come as no surprise that this investigation has been anything but unbiased.

John Woodman, who wrote a book debunking the LFBC theories (http://www.amazon.com/Barack-Obamas-Birth-Certificate-Fraud/dp/0983759251/) last year, contacted the potty posse and offered his assistance in helping the investigation.

They never responded to him. Yet, Mike Zulo, the guy who did most of the talking today, mentioned Woodman by name, so they must have been aware of him.

[ANTPogo]

Jesus Christ, their "expert" who produced the ten-page analysis (http://www.scribd.com/doc/83396535/Barack-Obama-eligibility-report-from-Joe-Arpaio-s-birther-gang) released by the MCSO is none other than Mara Zebest! (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=7337834#post7337834)

[slyjoe]

And Corsi was just on the news here in AZ - the PDF has LAYERS!

The local news couldn't get a single republican state official to comment - Sheriff Joe has jumped the shark and his supporters won't say a word.

ETA: more info at : http://www.azfamily.com/news/Arpaio-unveils-Obama-birth-certificate-probe-141104743.html

[Redtail]

And Corsi was just on the news here in AZ - the PDF has LAYERS!

The local news couldn't get a single republican state official to comment - Sheriff Joe has jumped the shark and his supporters won't say a word.

ETA: more info at : http://www.azfamily.com/news/Arpaio-unveils-Obama-birth-certificate-probe-141104743.html
What does "the PDF has layers" mean?

[fullflavormenthol]

What does "the PDF has layers" mean?
Really it means they don't under how scanning works with OCR. Basically some birther opened the LFBC in Adobe Illustrator (why I don't know), and found a bunch of clipping paths which they wrongly interpreted as either different layers or clipping masks. The fastest way to determine that the theory is rather stupid is by looking at what is contained in these clipping masks, which is random little pieces that defy reason as to why that would be the preferred method of fakery.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/243294db9aed2ae620.png

None of it is really provocative to someone who uses these programs a lot, or once in awhile. I came up with a similar result when I ran my COLB through a scanner using an OCR through Adobe Acrobat. According to the meta data the Obama LFBC wasn't even scanned through Adobe. Or to put it another way...the birthers immediately started grasping at straws the minute the White House posted anything.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/243294dba63f4822de.jpg

Example of the "layers" I got from mine, which I suppose is also fake.

[Redtail]

Really it means they don't under how scanning works with OCR. Basically some birther opened the LFBC in Adobe Illustrator (why I don't know), and found a bunch of clipping paths which they wrongly interpreted as either different layers or clipping masks. The fastest way to determine that the theory is rather stupid is by looking at what is contained in these clipping masks, which is random little pieces that defy reason as to why that would be the preferred method of fakery.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/243294db9aed2ae620.png

None of it is really provocative to someone who uses these programs a lot, or once in awhile. I came up with a similar result when I ran my COLB through a scanner using an OCR through Adobe Acrobat. According to the meta data the Obama LFBC wasn't even scanned through Adobe. Or to put it another way...the birthers immediately started grasping at straws the minute the White House posted anything.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/243294dba63f4822de.jpg

Example of the "layers" I got from mine, which I suppose is also fake.

Ahhh, I see. Thanks!

[Anders Lindman]

"Arizona sheriff says Obama's birth certificate a "forgery"

(Reuters) - A tough-talking Arizona sheriff, already embroiled in a Justice Department bias investigation, waded deeper into controversy on Thursday with an assertion that a probe by his office found President Barack Obama's birth certificate was a forgery." -- Full story: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/02/us-sheriff-arizona-obama-idUSTRE82105V20120302

[Chaos]

Romney's already on the record (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/04/mitt-romney-vs-birthers):

That makes him what... the second GOP politician worth talking about who acknowledges that Obama is eligible? The third?

[Paul]

Full story: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/02/us-sheriff-arizona-obama-idUSTRE82105V20120302 The comments on that are just depressing.

[Horatius]

The comments on that are just depressing.



But this bit is brilliant:


Arizona Democratic Party finance director Dan Mitchell later sent out an email seeking to parlay the sheriff's charges into cash donations for the party.

"Stop the ridiculous Tea Party, birther, GOP nonsense, click here to make a donation to the Democratic Party now," the message read.

Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt poked fun at Arpaio on Twitter, providing what he described as a link to a video feed of the news conference that instead directed readers to the opening credits of "The X-Files," a TV show about paranormal activity.

[Paul]

But this bit is brilliant:Yep, it is so obvious to most people that Arpaio is a nut, which is his most endearing quality by far, that everyone can relax and have some fun.

Well, everyone except the aforementioned commenters, who should probably have to spend some time in one of Sheriff Joe's luxurious tents in the desert, eating bad food, wearing pink clothes and working on a chain gang.

[KDLarsen]

I'm almost annoyed, that none of the reporters present yesterday, had the present of mind to ask why exactly they were investigating a non-legally binding form in its non-paper form.

Because let's face it, the only legal document President Obama has shown, was the COLB he released in 2008, which, to my knowledge, was never the subject of this type of layers madness.

[Moss]

I find Arpaio both interesting and frightening. How can someone with such a broad experience (his time as DEA officer saw him stationed outside the US and should have exposed him to a lot of human suffering) be such a cruel dogmatic?

[Swagomatic]

I find Arpaio both interesting and frightening. How can someone with such a broad experience (his time as DEA officer saw him stationed outside the US and should have exposed him to a lot of human suffering) be such a cruel dogmatic?

He's really evolved into his current state. When he was first elected, I think it was 1992, he seemed a logical choice. He had lots of law enforcement experience, and he looked to be reasonably intelligent; he seemed to far outclass the competition. I voted for him - based on the assumption that a professional law enforcement officer was the way to go. Every decision he made, good or bad, was reinforced with adulation from his staff and from the voters. The further he went off the rails, the more praise and adulation he got.

He now has, arguably, more power than any other politician in the state. He's trying to hang on to that power by this birth certificate nonsense. It's a huge diversion so that people won't look too closely at his civil rights violations and his department's botching of over 400 child sex abuse investigations.

[crimresearch]

I find Arpaio both interesting and frightening. How can someone with such a broad experience (his time as DEA officer saw him stationed outside the US and should have exposed him to a lot of human suffering) be such a cruel dogmatic?
Never underestimate the corrupting effect of power. In the DEA, he was still in the middle of the chain of command, as Sheriff (IIRC, a constitutional office in AZ), he answers to no one.

[uk_dave]

I seem to recall somewhere in the bowels of this thread that the numpties in charge of worldnutdaily were going to take over a real publication via court action after it did an expose of their lunacy. Has all that been forgotten about now?

[tsig]

"Arizona sheriff says Obama's birth certificate a "forgery"

(Reuters) - A tough-talking Arizona sheriff, already embroiled in a Justice Department bias investigation, waded deeper into controversy on Thursday with an assertion that a probe by his office found President Barack Obama's birth certificate was a forgery." -- Full story: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/02/us-sheriff-arizona-obama-idUSTRE82105V20120302

County's don't over rule countries.

[Alferd_Packer]

County's don't over rule countries.

He actually suggested that he investigation might need to be moved "overseas."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/Sheriff_J.W._Pepper_by_Clifton_James_2.jpg

[Paul]

I vote for Mexico.

[KDLarsen]

I seem to recall somewhere in the bowels of this thread that the numpties in charge of worldnutdaily were going to take over a real publication via court action after it did an expose of their lunacy. Has all that been forgotten about now?
That'd be the FARAH, et al. v ESQUIRE MAGAZINE, INC., et al. lawsuit, where WND were demanding a 9-figured damages sum. The docket is still active, but not much happening as far as I know. The latest entry was on January 27, when WND's councel Larry Klayman requested a status hearing by telephone.

A few interesting articles after yesterdays farce:
Birther Bribery: Is WorldNetDaily Trying to Influence Joe Arpaio? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/terry-krepel/joe-arpaio_b_1298459.html) via the Huffpost
Arpaio Report (http://www.thefogbow.com/arpaio-report/) via The Fogbow
RC Radio interview with John Woodman (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rcr/2012/03/02/rc-radio) via Reality Check / Blogtalk Radio
Obama Conspiracy Theories Blog launches investigation into Sheriff Joe’s “Cold Case Posse” (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/obama-conspiracy-theories-blog-launches-investigation-into-sheriff-joes-cold-case-posse/) via Doc Conspiracy

[Biscuit]

County's don't over rule countries.

In the article I read yesterday he said he opened the investigation because 250 tea party members asked him to. That is far less than 1% of his constituents. If 251 people asked him to stop would he?

I that article he made it clear he didn't think the president was behind the forgery. Red meat for his rabid tea party and white supremacist friends and a little CYA for his next election.

[Alferd_Packer]

I seem to recall somewhere in the bowels of this thread that the numpties in charge of worldnutdaily were going to take over a real publication via court action after it did an expose of their lunacy. Has all that been forgotten about now?

The Esquire suit has been stalled in court for some time now.

The big problem is that the WND Lawyer in this case, Larry Klayman has moved on to other birther nonsense cases. Plus, he is apparently bankrupt (financially) among other issue.
.

[KDLarsen]

The big problem is that the WND Lawyer in this case, Larry Klayman has moved on to other birther nonsense cases. Plus, he is apparently bankrupt (financially) among other issue.
.
.. not to mention bankrupt (morally). He's been banned from a couple of courtrooms, been sanctioned, and he owes his kids a lot of money in child support (which is apparently why he's not too keen on leaving California for various trials).

[KDLarsen]

In the article I read yesterday he said he opened the investigation because 250 tea party members asked him to. That is far less than 1% of his constituents. If 251 people asked him to stop would he?
The interesting thing is, those 250 Teahadists were subjected to a birther lecture by none other than Jerome Corsi before they submitted that letter to Arpaio.

And Jerome Corsi appears to have been involved in this potty posse investigation, why else would he have been allowed to speak at the press event yesterday?

[Alferd_Packer]

Too bad Brietbart couldn't take Corsi with him.

[Moss]

He now has, arguably, more power than any other politician in the state. He's trying to hang on to that power by this birth certificate nonsense. It's a huge diversion so that people won't look too closely at his civil rights violations and his department's botching of over 400 child sex abuse investigations.


Well, the civil rights violations I knew about, even German media reported those, but 400 botched investigations? That seems a huge number of a very specific crime. How did his department botch those?

[Swagomatic]

Well, the civil rights violations I knew about, even German media reported those, but 400 botched investigations? That seems a huge number of a very specific crime. How did his department botch those?

Here's an article from the local news about it. Failure to investigate (http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/mcso-failure-to-investigate-dozens-of-sex-crimes-means-offenders-still-free,-victims-still-in-danger)

It's tragic that he's able to divert attention away from himself with this nonsense.