Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[CptColumbo]

Nooo! Not the Realistice thread! Run for the hills!

ETA: I was, um, "privileged" to see some of that unfolding in real-time. It was an experience, let me tell you.

The Electric Sun Theory (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=193096) thread over in Sci & Tech is another contender, although I don't think it will ever reach Realistice heights.

Someone mentioned rebar on a TV show on Sunday and I got a cold shiver.

[Mojo]

Nooo! Not the Realistice thread! Run for the hills!

ETA: I was, um, "privileged" to see some of that unfolding in real-time. It was an experience, let me tell you.

The Electric Sun Theory (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=193096) thread over in Sci & Tech is another contender, although I don't think it will ever reach Realistice heights.


There's also the Skepticism and The Normal (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=73672) thread, itself an offshoot of two or three threads on another board.

[grmcdorman]

Someone mentioned rebar on a TV show on Sunday and I got a cold shiver.

Indeed. I (and my sons) will never view rebar in the same light again.

[boyntonstu]

BORN IN THE USA?
Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate
Suggests controversy could hurt president's re-election chances
Posted: January 18, 2011
8:05 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2011 WorldNetDaily


Neil Abercrombie
Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie suggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star Advertiser he was searching within the Hawaii Department of Health to find definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt the president's chances of re-election in 2012.

Donalyn Dela Cruz, Abercrombie's spokeswoman in Honolulu, ignored again today another in a series of repeated requests made by WND for an interview with the governor.

Read more: Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=252833#ixzz1BUyG7ZsH

When does a conspiracy theory become a conspiracy fact?

We have the long form of the person born a few hours after Obama.

What gives?

[Thunder]

BORN IN THE USA?
Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate
Suggests controversy could hurt president's re-election chances
Posted: January 18, 2011
8:05 pm Eastern

have you requested to see George W. Bush's long-form birth certificate?

[kookbreaker]

When does a conspiracy theory become a conspiracy fact?


Let us know when it happens, because what you have right now isn't anything resembling 'facts'.

[CptColumbo]

BORN IN THE USA?
Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate
Suggests controversy could hurt president's re-election chances
Posted: January 18, 2011
8:05 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2011 WorldNetDaily


Neil Abercrombie
Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie suggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star Advertiser he was searching within the Hawaii Department of Health to find definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt the president's chances of re-election in 2012.

Donalyn Dela Cruz, Abercrombie's spokeswoman in Honolulu, ignored again today another in a series of repeated requests made by WND for an interview with the governor.

Read more: Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=252833#ixzz1BUyG7ZsH

When does a conspiracy theory become a conspiracy fact?

We have the long form of the person born a few hours after Obama.

What gives?

Too bad that isn't what the interview in the Honolulu paper says:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html
I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

(Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down ...

...What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.
The last two sentences are very good.

And they wonder why he won't give them an interview?

[KoihimeNakamura]

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2011 WorldNetDaily

[Thunder]

I'd like to see Ronald Reagan's long-form birth certificate.

What does he have to hide?????????

[BenBurch]

...

When does a conspiracy theory become a conspiracy fact?

...


When you have actual evidence and not words quoted out of context, intended to delight the stupid.

[BenBurch]

I'd like to see Ronald Reagan's long-form birth certificate.

What does he have to hide?????????

Good luck! I am from Illinois (as he was) and I can't get my long form certificate - all records were digitized, and paper copies discarded.

[CptColumbo]

I'd like to see Ronald Reagan's long-form birth certificate.

What does he have to hide?????????
Not much anymore.

[Alferd_Packer]

Good luck! I am from Illinois (as he was) and I can't get my long form certificate - all records were digitized, and paper copies discarded.

The paper copies are gone, they've been gone for decades. Microfilm copies are still around, downstate.

[Alferd_Packer]

I'd like to see Ronald Reagan's long-form birth certificate.

What does he have to hide?????????

That he wasn't born in a hospital?

[CptColumbo]

When you have actual evidence and not words quoted out of context, intended to delight the stupid.

They aren't even words quoted out of context. They're made-up words attributed to someone who didn't say them.

[Arus808]

Read more: Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=252833#ixzz1BUyG7ZsH

When does a conspiracy theory become a conspiracy fact?

We have the long form of the person born a few hours after Obama.

What gives?


Debunked . WND shows again, its journalistic creditability (absolute zero).


http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html



Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama's birth certificate. How is that coming?


A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.


(Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down ...


...What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.


If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.


Of course, boyn-boy won't return to even attempt to state why he posted a fraudulent article written by WND (who is surprise)

troll is a troll

[Alferd_Packer]

Hmmm, is this the same Foggy that has been posting here?

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/01/obama_orly_taitz_birther_foggy.php

[Arus808]

Hmmm, is this the same Foggy that has been posting here?

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/01/obama_orly_taitz_birther_foggy.php


yup the very same one.

[Arus808]

Hollister v Soetoro ( http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/011811zor.pdf )"CERTIORARI DENIED 10-678 HOLLISTER, GREGORY S. V. SOETORO, BARRY, ET AL."
the last of Berg's (taken over by Terry Lakin's dog bite ambulance chaser: Hemenway) closed.



Lame Cherry posts her racists remarks concerning the Hawaii Five O cast and blaming Obama for the show in the first place:

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/hawaii-five-obama.html



"Was Hawaiian union allied Obama, vacationing away, working a deal with CBS his media benefactor to help Hawaii by his high profile vacations in tourism (NOTE OBAMA SAVAGED NEVADA IN LAS VEGAS NON STOP RUINING THEM FOR HAWAII) in a series called Hawaii Five 0, whereby a wink and a nod quid pro quo was agreed upon?

Now this is all in the open before the face of the American people. This has damaged the industry in Nevada, and there sits a worthless program in Hawaii with Obama there too, promoting the big island.

Did Tim Geithner funnel money to CBS for liberal union jobs in Obama's undocumented residence just like TARP ended up at GE for NBC?

CBS has run propaganda programs before which no one watched, except in rigged numbers and much publicity in advertising. Hawaii Five O is such a repeat event in money going to liberal union workers in Obama's state of vacation for a program which is horrid.



Oh forget the fact that CBS has been trying to get a Hawaii Five O series off the ground, since 1996 (when a pilot was made and never aired - James MacArthur returned as Governor in that pilot) - at a time when Obama wasn't even a politician yet.

And that the current series is still one of the top shows on Monday evening (behind football)

[LashL]

<snip> The apocolypse is neigh!

Is that a quote from one of the Four Horses of the Apocalypse? :biggrin:

Nominated! (For the Pith Award) :D

[boyntonstu]

Yes it has been produced. Hawaii only provides a Certification of Live Birth - has been using only that version since the 60's.

Dont even try to wave that fact away, since
1)IM from Hawaii
2) I have a Certification of Live Birth
3) This is the only type of certificate given by the State of Hawaii by the Department of Health. My copies come from 1976 and from 2006 (yes I have two, I misplaced the one my parents obtained in 1976 - and subsequently found it after a move)

The certification of live birth (AKA short form) is legal to to obtain:
Driver License
Passport (of all things, this is the most important)
Get a Job (tax filings)
Establish citizenship.

I did all of the above with my COLB.




Yes, its practically the same thing. NOT all states call their "birth certificates" that. Hawaii uses the term Certification of Live Birth. The only other term they use was Certificate of Birth, which is the only words that could fit on a 1 3/4" x 2 1/2" card that duplicates the information found on the COLB which they stopped giving out in 80's


Want to challenge that. I was born in Hawaii, so you have a huge uphill battle to prove me wrong.






They aren't doing that. They are fighting frivolous lawsuits that are asking for private information to be revealed.

I guess you were wrong.


.....Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor.

Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who took office in December, told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser on Tuesday that "our investigation" indicates there is a recording of his birth.

"It actually exists in the archives, written down," he said......"

Written down with signatures, etc. NOT a computer GIGO document.

Produce it, I will say that I was wrong.

Why did it take years and a new investigation to "indicate" that the document exits.

What were all the previous officials from Hawaii claiming prior to this investigation?

What did they know and when did they know it?

Were they just blowing smoke?

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/19/2011-01-19_record_of_obamas_birth_is_in_the_archives_hawai i_gov.html#ixzz1BZnH4oM1

[Alferd_Packer]

Yawn.

Birthers are so boring these days.

[timhau]

Yeah, if he wants to keep our attention, he has to come up with new varieties of fail.

[Myron Proudfoot]

Wow, I looked over Lame Cherry's blog. What a piece of work...

Does claiming that a remake of Hawaii-50 is some sort of pro-Obama conspiracy deserve a Stundie nomination???

[Thunder]

Obama is the President of the United States.

deal with it.

[boyntonstu]

Obama is the President of the United States.

deal with it.

Trying, we are indeed trying, and perhaps it will come to a trial.

[Thunder]

Trying, we are indeed trying, and perhaps it will come to a trial.

Pigs will fly first.

Birtherism is almost as dumb as 9-11 Trutherism. Maybe even dumber.

you know the Supreme Court kicked Orly Taitz out...right?

:p

[Alferd_Packer]

you know the Supreme Court kicked Orly Taitz out...right?

:p

Several times

[ANTPogo]

Why did it take years and a new investigation to "indicate" that the document exits.

It (http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html) didn't. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm)

What were all the previous officials from Hawaii claiming prior to this investigation?

Strangely enough, the exact same thing. As you can see from the quotes in the above articles.

[Horatius]

Pigs will fly first.

Birtherism is almost as dumb as 9-11 Trutherism. Maybe even dumber.




No, it's definitely dumber. I expect people to be confused by engineering and science, as it take a significant amount of time and effort to learn about such things. But almost all of us has a birth certificate, and have had to get or use copies of it to do something at some point in our lives, and yet, these idiots still can't figure out why no one will take them seriously when they harp on about Obama proving his citizenship.

[tsig]

Trying, we are indeed trying, and perhaps it will come to a trial.

You better get cracking or he'll have served his term/s and be out of office at the rate birthers are going.

[grmcdorman]

Ha. Out of office, retired, written memoirs, and working as a elder statesman in the style of Jimmy Carter.

Either that, or the heat death of the universe.

[Alferd_Packer]

What were all the previous officials from Hawaii claiming prior to this investigation?

Are you asking about the Republican officials?

[Arus808]

Birtherism is almost as dumb as 9-11 Trutherism. Maybe even dumber.

oh no, it's dumber. At least 911 truth some of the members try their hand at using evidence and math to back up their claims.

[carlitos]

Lame Cherry posts her racists remarks concerning the Hawaii Five O cast and blaming Obama for the show in the first place:

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/hawaii-five-obama.html



Oh forget the fact that CBS has been trying to get a Hawaii Five O series off the ground, since 1996 (when a pilot was made and never aired - James MacArthur returned as Governor in that pilot) - at a time when Obama wasn't even a politician yet.

And that the current series is still one of the top shows on Monday evening (behind football)

I like the new show, despite never having seen the old one.

Color me unsurprised that the conspiracist you quoted doesn't know the difference between "the big island" and Oahu.

[Arus808]

I guess you were wrong. we are not wrong

you and jerome corsi shown that you suffer from reading comprehension problems as demonstrated by the ARTICLE that he and we have linked to.

Abercrombie said nothing of the sort that Corsi is implying and YOU are implying


.....Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor.

that is true. And confirmed by the previous governor and her staff at the Department of Health. SINCE 2008!

Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who took office in December, told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser on Tuesday that "our investigation" indicates there is a recording of his birth.


oh gee, who of thunk?

"It actually exists in the archives, written down," he said......"

Yes it would be written down, in record books. The actual document is now a scanned image on microfiche, stored away for keeping.

Written down with signatures, etc. NOT a computer GIGO document.

No where in that article does it say that/ Again YOU and CORSI are LYING through your teeth when you are putting words that are not there.

Produce it, I will say that I was wrong.
He has. You can find it on his website and several other websites.


Why did it take years and a new investigation to "indicate" that the document exits.

It didn't.


What were all the previous officials from Hawaii claiming prior to this investigation?

That he was born in Hawaii.
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html


Can you please join us in 2011? These issues were dealt with in 2009

[Travis]

Wow, I looked over Lame Cherry's blog. What a piece of work...

Does claiming that a remake of Hawaii-50 is some sort of pro-Obama conspiracy deserve a Stundie nomination???

I think so.

[Arus808]

Wow, I looked over Lame Cherry's blog. What a piece of work...


If you think she is nutty , you should read her bestest of friends blog: Dr. Kate, and how it was a conspiracy by Obama's administration to get her fired from her cushy job.

http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/whats-the-deal/


On the same day as the Lakin trial, December 15, this meeting took place between Obama, Jarrett and twelve Tribal Chairman from resource-rich Indian reservations across the western United States. There were twelve at the table, and dozens sitting around the center of discussion. On my way home from the trial, I met one of this meeting’s participants in an airport. He looked at me like he’d seen a ghost.


Oh and Dr. Kate uses such racist remarks against Obama as well (no wonder the Indian group she worked for wanted her out)

Read more on her parnoia, and loathing of Obama here:
http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/ (http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/whats-the-deal/)



Does claiming that a remake of Hawaii-50 is some sort of pro-Obama conspiracy deserve a Stundie nomination???go ahead. I think its the most hilarious thing posted on a website.

[Alferd_Packer]

Does anyone remember the show: Carter Country?

[Juniversal]

If you think she is nutty , you should read her bestest of friends blog: Dr. Kate, and how it was a conspiracy by Obama's administration to get her fired from her cushy job.

http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/whats-the-deal/



Oh and Dr. Kate uses such racist remarks against Obama as well (no wonder the Indian group she worked for wanted her out)

Read more on her parnoia, and loathing of Obama here:
http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/ (http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/whats-the-deal/)


go ahead. I think its the most hilarious thing posted on a website.Wow she is an interesting one. More nonsensical ravings from the artical titled Sell-Out Obamas (http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/sell-out-obamas/):

This would not be happening save for the fraud perpetuated on the United States by the Obamas/NWO handlers, Nancy Pelosi and the DNC, RNC and Congressional enablers. Something they refuse to acknowledge or deal with, and thus deserve no quarter from any of us.

A special note to the spammers, thugs, obots, and anti-American visitors of this blog:

How do you anti-birthers, obama supporters, anti-American Lakin-haters, lefties, so called liberals or conservatives, and so called media–all now communists by proxy–feel about supporting this fool now? Do you like actively participating in the demise of America just because as cowards you get your rocks off picking on and mocking other people? Got misprision of treason? Have the guts to prove us wrong or sit down and shut up.She is a paranoid one isn't she? :eye-poppi

[Swagomatic]

Does anyone remember the show: Carter Country?

I remember it, but I don't think I ever watched it. It was my freshman year in college, and I didn't watch too much TV then (other than Star Trek reruns). :D

[Thunder]

Obama is a natural-born American citizen. He was born in Hawaii.

Case closed.

[Arus808]

but round and round we go.


birther talking points about citizenship summarized:

1) Obama wasn't born in Hawaii -- COLB says he was. Two newspaper announcements prove that he was.

2) But, his father was a Kenyan -- Father's citizenship matters not on American Citizenship

3) Father had British citizenship which means Obama is a British citizen, and dual citizens aren't Natural born citizens --- Father's citizenship matters not on American citizenship and no where in the Constitution does it say that one cannot be a dual citizen to be considered eligible for POTUS

Case in point: Thomas Jefferson (became a French Citizen), John F. Kennedy (Irish Citizen from birth by father)

4) Stanley Ann wasn't old enough to pass on US Citizenship --- This only applies to those born abroad. Law since then has changed.

5) Both Parents must be US Citizens! (aka De Vattel rule) -- No where in the Constitution or case history supports this claim

6) Obama lost his US citizenship when he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro --

a) A minor child cannot renounce his citizenship unless they are aware of the consequence in doing so -- Obama was 6 years of age when he went to live with his mother's new husband and family

b) Indonesian law at the time didn't allow non-citizen children to be adopted after the age of 5.

c) no record on file that Lolo adopted Obama (and even if he did adopt Obama, that doesn't automatically rescind Obama's US citizenship status).



These are the broken record claims of birthers for the last 2 years.

[akama1]

I'd like to see Ronald Reagan's long-form birth certificate.

What does he have to hide?????????


The fact he was resurected and been working in a toy store for the last few years?

[boyntonstu]

Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 3:32 PM on 20th January 2011

* Comments (0)
* Add to My Stories




Governor Neil Abercrombie is facing renewed pressure over Obama's Hawaiin origins

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1Be11Ww6w

Hawaii - ????? Is it real?

[Arus808]

Hawaii - ????? Is it real?


there's this law called HIPPA. Get familiar with it.

[Puppycow]

ETA:
Hawaii Governor Finds Documentation of Obama's Birth (http://www.theroot.com/buzz/hawaii-governor-finds-documentation-obamas-birth)

Last month Abercrombie vowed to find another official record of Obama's birth in the state's archives, and find it he did. On Tuesday he announced that they had found documentation that "actually exists in the archives, written down."

Not sure if this actually changes anything.

Why have an announcement unless you actually have something to show people?

[timhau]

Not sure if this actually changes anything.


Of course it doesn't, not until a notarized copy of the original has been mailed to each US household so they can verify it for themselves. After that we can discuss the matter again.

[CptColumbo]

Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 3:32 PM on 20th January 2011

* Comments (0)
* Add to My Stories




Governor Neil Abercrombie is facing renewed pressure over Obama's Hawaiin origins
What pressure?

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.

What pressure?

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
How is that "apparent?"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1Be11Ww6w

Hawaii - ????? Is it real?

This is the second time you've linked to an article that is using the Honolulu Star article as reference. Have you read the original article?

[Chaos]

Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 3:32 PM on 20th January 2011

* Comments (0)
* Add to My Stories




Governor Neil Abercrombie is facing renewed pressure over Obama's Hawaiin origins

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1Be11Ww6w

Hawaii - ????? Is it real?

In other news, bigotted birther racists completely ignore everything in this thread that explains why they´re full of ****.

[Horatius]

This is the second time you've linked to an article that is using the Honolulu Star article as reference. Have you read the original article?



I'm going to say, "Probably not," as he'd likely be afraid of finding out that the original source doesn't actually support these rather liberal interpretations (http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html).


Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama's birth certificate. How is that coming?

A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

(Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down ...

...What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.

[sts60]

At least with Apollo hoax claims, a lot of the science and technology issues are unfamiliar to most people.
At least with JFK claims, it's not hard to imagine a 2nd person with a gun.
At least with 9/11/01 CD claims, the building collapses look vaguely like CD (the buildings fell down, after all).
At least with UFO claims, you can't prove they don't exist.
At least with 9/11/01 "no planer" claims, the claimants have the obvious excuse of insanity.

But "birtherism" is the stupidest conspiracy theory ever, and I marvel that anyone who actually believes this idiocy can manipulate a keyboard. Likewise for any "birther" who expects rational people to believe that, sure, another document produced by the Establishment (going old school here) will actually satisfy their doubts.

Stupidest. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.

[Arus808]

Stupidest. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.

It all started with claims from known racists. The entire movement is based on the hate and vitriol coming from white supremacists who just don't like the fact that a black man is in control of our country.

Oh yes, some of the misguided right wing morons are attached to it, but if you look at all of those that are really tied to it, you will find their connections to various RACIST groups.


Yes one of the stupidest conspiracy theories ever, but its a not so cleverly disguised, one BIG racist rant.

[NotJesus]

At least with Apollo hoax claims, a lot of the science and technology issues are unfamiliar to most people.
At least with JFK claims, it's not hard to imagine a 2nd person with a gun.
At least with 9/11/01 CD claims, the building collapses look vaguely like CD (the buildings fell down, after all).
At least with UFO claims, you can't prove they don't exist.
At least with 9/11/01 "no planer" claims, the claimants have the obvious excuse of insanity.

But "birtherism" is the stupidest conspiracy theory ever, and I marvel that anyone who actually believes this idiocy can manipulate a keyboard. Likewise for any "birther" who expects rational people to believe that, sure, another document produced by the Establishment (going old school here) will actually satisfy their doubts.

Stupidest. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.

I disagree. It's a very stupid one but, once you get beyond the point of "just asking questions," it's much easier to construct a vaguely plausible scenario for Obama being born in another country than it is to construct one for the government carrying out 9/11.

[DrBaltar]

1) Obama wasn't born in Hawaii -- COLB says he was. Two newspaper announcements prove that he was.Don't forget to mention his Grandmother ID'd him coming out the birth canal in Kenya.

[boyntonstu]

Don't forget to mention his Grandmother ID'd him coming out the birth canal in Kenya.

Locating the Long Form BC is be a simple matter to resolve.

The Governor considers it very important and he has asked his staff to search for it.

They have already indicated that it exists.

(An adjacent numbered BC has been produced)

Let's wait a few more months, they will surely locate the document.

[Chaos]

Locating the Long Form BC is be a simple matter to resolve.

The Governor considers it very important and he has asked his staff to search for it.

They have already indicated that it exists.

(An adjacent numbered BC has been produced)

Let's wait a few more months, they will surely locate the document.

I´m sure by then your and your pals will have invented plenty of reasons to dismiss anything that is presented.

[Accidental Martyr]

In other news, bigotted birther racists completely ignore everything in this thread that explains why they´re full of ****.

^ :) ^

[DrBaltar]

If this case ever does go to court it might go something like this:

Obama's Attorney: Your honor, in addition to the photos of copies on FactCheck.org we have this statement by JREF member Thunder.

Obama is a natural-born American citizen. He was born in Hawaii.

Case closed.

I rest my case.

[elbe]

Don't forget to mention his Grandmother ID'd him coming out the birth canal in Kenya.

Because as we all know, eyewitness accounts are never wrong - especially for very old events and the account run through a translator. Proper record keeping? Nah, screw that.

[Chaos]

If this case ever does go to court it might go something like this:

Obama's Attorney: Your honor, in addition to the photos of copies on FactCheck.org we have this statement by JREF member Thunder.



I rest my case.

Birther Attorney: And in addition to absolutely nothing, we have nothing whatsoever, plus nothing at all - oh, and of course the thinly disguised racism of Birthers who cannot stand having a black person in the White House.

[Mojo]

Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

By Daily Mail Reporter


I don't need to read any further than that.

[DrBaltar]

Birther Attorney: And in addition to absolutely nothing, we have nothing whatsoever, plus nothing at all - oh, and of course the thinly disguised racism of Birthers who cannot stand having a black person in the White House.

Strawman with a side order of the race card. C'mon skeptics. I can get this crap on any forum.

[boyntonstu]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate

HONOLULU – A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual's birth documentation without the person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.

"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."

Well, Duh!

All it needs is for Obama to say, "Show it".

[Chaos]

Strawman with a side order of the race card. C'mon skeptics. I can get this crap on any forum.

Then what DO you have? Present it!

All I ever hear is "Why doesn´t Obama present his Birth Certificate?", which completely ignores that, firstly, he DID present it long ago, and, secondly, there never was a reason for him to present it to a bunch of partisan wankers because he eligibility was established long ago.

As for the racist part, I seem to have overlooked the many, many threads in which birthers discuss how all the other 40-odd US presidents never presented their birth certificates to the public. Of course, these presidents all happen to be white, while the one president whose birth certificate you demand happens to be black. So what am I supposed to think?

[boyntonstu]

Then what DO you have? Present it!

All I ever hear is "Why doesn´t Obama present his Birth Certificate?", which completely ignores that, firstly, he DID present it long ago, and, secondly, there never was a reason for him to present it to a bunch of partisan wankers because he eligibility was established long ago.

As for the racist part, I seem to have overlooked the many, many threads in which birthers discuss how all the other 40-odd US presidents never presented their birth certificates to the public. Of course, these presidents all happen to be white, while the one president whose birth certificate you demand happens to be black. So what am I supposed to think?


Are you disputing what the Governor is presently saying?

"firstly, he DID present it long ago"

What is the "it" that he presented?

If what you say is true, why wouldn't the Governor show "it" instead of trying to pry "it" loose?

[Arus808]

Are you disputing what the Governor is presently saying?

Nope as pointed out to you earlier, yes there is a law called HIPPA. I told you to get familiar with it


"firstly, he DID present it long ago"Obama did, its on his fight the smears website, posted in 2008. Its now 2011.

What is the "it" that he presented?The official COLB sent to Obama from the Department of Health in Hawaii
The only form given to the residents if they are born there.

If what you say is true, why wouldn't the Governor show "it" instead of trying to pry "it" loose?He can't. HIPPA

Get to know that law.

[Accidental Martyr]

Strawman with a side order of the race card. C'mon skeptics. I can get this crap on any forum.

What's your point? Chaos made a truthful statement.

[timhau]

All it needs is for Obama to say, "Show it".

... because if the POTUS isn't answerable to crackpots, who is he answerable to?

[Alferd_Packer]

All it needs is for Obama to say, "Show it".

My, aren't we special.

[DrBaltar]

Then what DO you have? Present it!I was just pointing out the brilliance of Thunder's comment when you chimed in with your strawman and race card.

All I ever hear is "Why doesn´t Obama present his Birth Certificate?", which completely ignores that, firstly, he DID present it long ago, and, secondly, there never was a reason for him to present it to a bunch of partisan wankers because he eligibility was established long ago.No, he presented a photo of it on a website. "Held by Fact Check writer Joe Miller". When did writer Joe Miller get the job of certifying presidents? Posting a photo of your social security card on the internet wouldn't even pass to work at Taco Bell would it?

As for the racist part, I seem to have overlooked the many, many threads in which birthers discuss how all the other 40-odd US presidents never presented their birth certificates to the public. Of course, these presidents all happen to be white, while the one president whose birth certificate you demand happens to be black. So what am I supposed to think?See if you can get beyond the color issue and listen to what 'birthers' are actually saying. I don't need to repeat it. It's all over this thread.

[tsig]

I was just pointing out the brilliance of Thunder's comment when you chimed in with your strawman and race card.

No, he presented a photo of it on a website. "Held by Fact Check writer Joe Miller". When did writer Joe Miller get the job of certifying presidents? Posting a photo of your social security card on the internet wouldn't even pass to work at Taco Bell would it?

See if you can get beyond the color issue and listen to what 'birthers' are actually saying. I don't need to repeat it. It's all over this thread.

Congress does that and they did.

[Sledge]

We know what birthers are saying. "Why won't he release his birth certificate?" We know why they're saying it. They're racists. Anything else?

[TjW]

All it needs is for Obama to say, "Show it".

Well, he probably wouldn't do it that way. He'd wait for a news conference, step back from the podium and say:
"'Scuse me while I whip this out."

[DrBaltar]

We know what birthers are saying. "Why won't he release his birth certificate?" We know why they're saying it. They're racists. Anything else?

That's all you got too huh? Doesn't really address the issue though.

[Sledge]

How do you address racism? Pointing and laughing, I suppose.

[DrBaltar]

How do you address racism? Pointing and laughing, I suppose.

Ah, there's your mistake. You've completely missed the issue that the birthers have. I guess reverse racism blinds people just as much as racism.

[Alferd_Packer]

That's all you got too huh? Doesn't really address the issue though.

What issue? That some people will grasp at anything to discredit a president they don't like? even if it's totally in their own minds?

[boyntonstu]

The issue, everything but the issue.

Thousands of views, countless newspaper articles, lawsuits, a Governor, etc.

Race, the price of tea in China, it happened, why should he, why not ask about another president, where is yours, my birth certificate, the law, ...................

A single document. is worth 1,000,000+ words.

A picture is only worth 1,000.

[Sledge]

Ah, there's your mistake. You've completely missed the issue that the birthers have. I guess reverse racism blinds people just as much as racism.

Go on then, enlighten me.

[Chaos]

I was just pointing out the brilliance of Thunder's comment when you chimed in with your strawman and race card.

What strawman? Unless you present an argument, which you still refuse to do, you have nothing, and that´s exactly what I pointed out.

And what race card? As long as you do the Birther crap for 100% of all black presidents and 0% of all white presidents, what other conclusion am I supposed to draw?

No, he presented a photo of it on a website. "Held by Fact Check writer Joe Miller". When did writer Joe Miller get the job of certifying presidents? Posting a photo of your social security card on the internet wouldn't even pass to work at Taco Bell would it?

Who gave Birthers the job of doubting presidents´ certification?

The people whose job it is to certify presidents have seen sufficient evidence to certify him. For serious people, that´s where it ends.

See if you can get beyond the color issue and listen to what 'birthers' are actually saying. I don't need to repeat it. It's all over this thread.

Yes. It is all over this thread that Birther have NO ARGUMENT AT ALL.

It is also all over this thread that Birthers "doubt" (i.e. deny against all evidence) Obama´s eligibility, and do not doubt the eligibility of any white president ever.

[elbe]

The issue, everything but the issue.

Thousands of views, countless newspaper articles, lawsuits, a Governor, etc.

Race, the price of tea in China, it happened, why should he, why not ask about another president, where is yours, my birth certificate, the law, ...................

A single document. is worth 1,000,000+ words.

A picture is only worth 1,000.

As the "issue" has already been addressed, with the COLB being posted online and accepted by the state of Hawaii as real, the problem is really just birthers ignoring all the evidence for, well, why? If it's not racism, then why?

[Arus808]

You've completely missed the issue that the birthers have. I guess reverse racism blinds people just as much as racism.

I've been following the birthers since their "creation" in 2008. Some of the earlier birthers started in 2006/2007, and they were the outspoken white supremacists of the time.

Birther beliefs ORIGINATE with racism. Because a black man had the gall to say that he was running to become President of the United States.

Some birthers are inherently racist, like Jerome Corsi of World Nut Daily who post nothing but lies concerning Obama and his citizenship.

ADL has written an article about Birthers :
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/rage-grows-in-America/birther-movement.asp

Orly Taitz, the nitrous addled dentist turned lawyer, who uses convicted criminals and forgers in her birther cases, has posted many rants on her site concerning Obama that are littered with racist remarks. She's considered the "Queen of Birthers" in the mainstream. She doesn't hid the fact of her hatred of Muslims.

She often Quotes Dr. Kate (linked previously) who has no problem calling Obama and his wife, Sasquatch and Bigfoot.

Lame Cherry is another racist bigot who is outspoken on the Birther issues, who's own site is nothing but a dumping ground of seditionist and racist remarks.

Ed Hale - of bigfoot fame took on his own crusade as a birther, who often referred to Obama in derogatory terms.

Andy Martin - an known anti-Semite

Carl Swenson - a known Sovereign Citizen supporter and has ties to many militia groups

John Charlton - who owns the Post and Email (aka the pest and efail) who who often posts and copies stuff from Stormfront (a known RACIST/White supremacist site).

Sharon Meroni aka Chalice Jackson - owns/runs Patriot Hearts Network internet radio. Uses her religion to attack anyone and has shown her hatred of all Muslims.




These are the "leaders" of the so called birther movement. All of whom have referred to Obama in one way or another using RACIST remarks and terms.

[Horatius]

These are the "leaders" of the so called birther movement. All of whom have referred to Obama in one way or another using RACIST remarks and terms.



Well, yeah, but other than that, what evidence do you have that Birthers are racists?

:boxedin:

[Cl1mh4224rd]

No one questioning Obama's birth has bothered to answer my question: What about the process by which a candidate's eligibility for the Presidency is determined was unsatisfactory in the case of Barack Hussein Obama, but satisfactory in the case of all other and previous candidates?

DrBaltar, you're new to the thread and seem to enjoy exercising your fingers; care to make an attempt at an answer?

[DrBaltar]

What strawman?You need me to help you review your own conversation? uh, ok... You were mocking the 'birther attorney' using a strawman version of their arguments. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6794961&postcount=2061)

And what race card? As long as you do the Birther crap for 100% of all black presidents and 0% of all white presidents, what other conclusion am I supposed to draw?The birther crap started before Obama became president, so lets looks at black presidential candidates. Barack Obama, Shirley Chisholm, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Alan Keyes, Carol Moseley Braun, and Lenora Fulan. Hmmm... only 1/7th of black presidential candidates have been asked for their original birth certificate. Perhaps there are other circumstances surrounding Obama that raise questions? Nah, much easier to cry racists instead.

Who gave Birthers the job of doubting presidents´ certification?Seriously? Those birthers are US citizens who vote. They have every right to ask questions about candidates.

Yes. It is all over this thread that Birther have NO ARGUMENT AT ALL.A search of the thread shows otherwise. Again, I guess it's easier to cry racist.

[tsig]

You need me to help you review your own conversation? uh, ok... You were mocking the 'birther attorney' using a strawman version of their arguments. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6794961&postcount=2061)

The birther crap started before Obama became president, so lets looks at black presidential candidates. Barack Obama, Shirley Chisholm, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Alan Keyes, Carol Moseley Braun, and Lenora Fulan. Hmmm... only 1/7th of black presidential candidates have been asked for their original birth certificate. Perhaps there are other circumstances surrounding Obama that raise questions? Nah, much easier to cry racists instead.

Seriously? Those birthers are US citizens who vote. They have every right to ask questions about candidates.

A search of the thread shows otherwise. Again, I guess it's easier to cry racist.

Yep, that's what it is.

[DrBaltar]

No one questioning Obama's birth has bothered to answer my question: What about the process by which a candidate's eligibility for the Presidency is determined was unsatisfactory in the case of Barack Hussein Obama, but satisfactory in the case of all other and previous candidates?

DrBaltar, you're new to the thread and seem to enjoy exercising your fingers; care to make an attempt at an answer?

Well it's the weekend and I have some time...
Did any other previous candidates grandmothers from another country gush about how she saw the candidate born there? Did any other candidates have citizenship in another country? Did any other candidates pass themselves off as a different nationality through their teens and early twenties? These things raise serious questions about Obama's citizenship to the point that merely supplying a photo of a copy of the birth certificate and verified by some writer is not sufficient. The original birth certificate was requested and refused by Obama on the grounds that 'they're only asking for the original because I'm black', despite the serious questions that were raised. Obama's refusal to produce the original only serves to raise further questions about his citizenship. If there were not a witness to his birth in Kenya, or evidence that he later had Indonesian citizenship, then there would be no grounds to seek the original birth certificate... even though he's black, believe it or not.

[DavidJames]

The original birth certificate was requested and refused by Obama on the grounds that 'they're only asking for the original because I'm black'...Evidence please.

[Accidental Martyr]

Originally Posted by DrBaltar
The original birth certificate was requested and refused by Obama on the grounds that 'they're only asking for the original because I'm black'...

Evidence please.
Yes, please provide evidence for this.

[Arus808]

Well it's the weekend and I have some time...
Did any other previous candidates grandmothers from another country gush about how she saw the candidate born there?

And you repeat a birther lie. Berg intentionally edited out the portion where she stated that he was born in America. You do know that this was brought to light AS soon as the edited converstation was posted by Berg.

Birthers LIE.. All of the LIE..

Why do you trust the birthers, who've been shown to LIE over time about Obama?

The correct transcript:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf


In Sara Obama's own words:



MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?
OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.
MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.
OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.
MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.
OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.

Did any other candidates have citizenship in another country?Actually several candidates and Presidents in history had citizenship in other countries.

John F. Kennedy was an Irish citizen by virtue of his grandfather and father
James Buchanan, like Kennedy was an Irish Citizen by his father

Thomas Jefferson became a French Citizen before becoming President of the United States

McCain's natural born status was challenged and then affirmed by Congress (of which Obama was apart of).

Did any other candidates pass themselves off as a different nationality through their teens and early twenties?And what does this have to do with citizenship?

Is there truly an "American" nationality? Nope. I'm a citizen, yet I identify with Japanese culture and nationality.

What "nationality" are you claiming that Obama "passed" himself off as in his "early teens and twenties?"

These things raise serious questions about Obama's citizenship to the point that merely supplying a photo of a copy of the birth certificate and verified by some writer is not sufficient.
No, none of what you pointed out carry a lick of credibility to denounce Obama as an American.

What you are repeating are red herrings against Obama.

There is the public birth index that shows Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii
We have his COLB, which was confirmed as OFFICIAL by the Department of Health in Hawaii
We have the birth announcements in the two Hawaii newspapers at the time (birth announcements can only be submitted by the Department of Vital Statistics in Hawaii)

And that's all that matters.

The original birth certificate was requested and refused by Obama on the grounds that 'they're only asking for the original because I'm black', despite the serious questions that were raised. Source please. This was not stated on his website:
http://fightthesmears.com/

The only reason he released his COLB online was:

Smears claiming Barack Obama doesn’t have a birth certificate aren’t actually about that piece of paper — they’re about manipulating people into thinking Barack is not an American citizen.
That is why he released his COLB as given to him by the State of Hawaii.

The only version that Hawaii releases to residents.

Obama's refusal to produce the original only serves to raise further questions about his citizenship. Sorry, but the original is LONG gone. I dont hae my original bC from Hawaii, be cause it was lost, and when I applied for my first job, i had to request a copy. Its not his refusal to do so, HE CAN't SUPPLY SOMETHING THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE!

The only version that Hawaii has released, since the 90's has been the green COLB. The same one that Obama has released. Since 2000, all records are digitized. There is no long form.

There is not even an "original", all information are inputted into a computer and uploaded to the Dept. Of health by the various hospitals. The older records are no longer available to the workers in the Dept. Of Health as they are stored away for safe keeping, in temperature controlled rooms (due to Hawaii's humidity, paper records do not keep). All of those records were scanned to microfiche and available that way until the late 80's and by the 90's the complete database was changed over to computers. Since DB's only need text fields, a person inputted those information that would fit the fields used on the COLB. All of the extraneous information (that does't establish citizenship) were not entered.

There is no paper copy sent to them anymore. And when parents get their child's COLB in the mail, they get the Green COLB that is given to those who request a copy.




Dr.. you're joing in on this conspiracy in the late stages. Birthers are mocked for their hidden and overt racism. All of what you have asked have been addressed, and it seems that you are repeating long debunked birther claims:

Before you post a reply, visit these sites and READ THEM thoroughly. It'll take you about a week at least to get through all the articles on each site, and go through all the LEGAL explanations that you are sorely misunderstanding. So, take a break, go read the articles and come back here when you have a question:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org
http://badfiction.typepad.com -- view the Birther Mythbusting page to see the various articles on birther claims.
http://www.ohforgoodnesssake.com
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/ - you have to register to participate in the Obama Eligiblity threads.
http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/
http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/

[Chaos]

You need me to help you review your own conversation? uh, ok... You were mocking the 'birther attorney' using a strawman version of their arguments. (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6794961&postcount=2061)

That´s not a strawman, that´s a fact. You have nothing.

The birther crap started before Obama became president, so lets looks at black presidential candidates. Barack Obama, Shirley Chisholm, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Alan Keyes, Carol Moseley Braun, and Lenora Fulan. Hmmm... only 1/7th of black presidential candidates have been asked for their original birth certificate. Perhaps there are other circumstances surrounding Obama that raise questions? Nah, much easier to cry racists instead.

Ah... the delicious irony of a birther calling his own ideology "crap"...

[qoute]Seriously? Those birthers are US citizens who vote. They have every right to ask questions about candidates.[/quote]

Yeah, yeah, I know, "just asking questions"... and accusing those who refuse to bow to your partisan racist crap of treason, and costing the US untold amounts of money with your frivolous lawsuits.

The people whose job it is to check this sort of thing did check it, and concluded he is a citizen. End of discussion. A bunch of partisan racist nutcases cannot simply declare any conclusion they do not like to be invalid.

A search of the thread shows otherwise. Again, I guess it's easier to cry racist.

If you think you have an argument, present it, here and now. "Search this thread" is a tacit admission that you know you have nothing and want me to waste time looking for it.

[boyntonstu]

The people whose job it is to check this sort of thing did check it, and concluded he is a citizen. End of discussion.

Does this roster include the present Governor of Hawaii?

http://www.drudgereport.com/

[timhau]

The birther crap started before Obama became president, so lets looks at black presidential candidates. Barack Obama, Shirley Chisholm, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Alan Keyes, Carol Moseley Braun, and Lenora Fulan. Hmmm... only 1/7th of black presidential candidates have been asked for their original birth certificate.

... and it's been asked of 1 out of 1 who have had a snowball's chance in Hell in getting elected.

[timhau]

The people whose job it is to check this sort of thing did check it, and concluded he is a citizen. End of discussion.

No, it's end of discussion only for those of us who are sane. The rest can and do go on.

[boyntonstu]

No, it's end of discussion only for those of us who are sane. The rest can and do go on.

Are you saying that the Governor of Hawaii is insane?

[elbe]

Are you saying that the Governor of Hawaii is insane?

I think he's a naive man who thinks that by trying to circumvent policy he can put the birther movement to rest. It doesn't really matter what he does. The President's COLB has been posted for the world to see and his birth state has verified it as accurate. Just because crazy people demand more and more extraordinary evidence doesn't mean we should pander to them.

[CptColumbo]

The people whose job it is to check this sort of thing did check it, and concluded he is a citizen. End of discussion.

Does this roster include the present Governor of Hawaii?

http://www.drudgereport.com/
Since he wasn't Governor in 2008, when the discussion was relevant, why does it need to include him?

[boyntonstu]

Since he wasn't Governor in 2008, when the discussion was relevant, why does it need to include him?

http://www.drudgereport.com/ today

[CptColumbo]

http://www.drudgereport.com/ today
Your link goes to many articles, but it's irrelevant.

Since he wasn't Governor in 2008, when the discussion was relevant, why does it need to include him?


Put it in your own words.

ETA: the one article I did click on referenced the same interview with the Honolulu Star.

[CptColumbo]

Actually several candidates and Presidents in history had citizenship in other countries.

John F. Kennedy was an Irish citizen by virtue of his grandfather and father
James Buchanan, like Kennedy was an Irish Citizen by his father

Thomas Jefferson became a French Citizen before becoming President of the United States

McCain's natural born status was challenged and then affirmed by Congress (of which Obama was apart of).


We have 10 of the first 12 Presidents of the United States, who were not natural born citizens (however this was allowed for in the Constitution). During the first part of the 19th century most of the candidates parents were not natural born citizens, since there was no USA when they were born.

Then we have:
Pres. Chester A. Arthur - Born in Vermont. His father was Irish. He advanced to the Presidency after the death of James Garfield, and never actually ran as a Presidential Candidate.

Pres. Woodrow Wilson - Born in Virginia. Mother was from Scotland. Elected twice.

Pres. Herbert Hoover - Born in Iowa (first President born west of the Mississippi). Father from Germany and Mother from Canada. Ran twice, elected once.

Wendell Willkie - Born in Indiana. Father from Germany. Ran in 1940 against FDR.

Vice-President Hubert H. Humphrey - Born in South Dakota. Mother from Norway. Ran in 1968 against Richard Nixon.

Senator George McGovern - Also born in South Dakota. Mother from Canada. Ran in 1972 against Richard Nixon.

Governor Michael Dukakis - Born in Massachusetts. Both parents born in Greece. Ran in 1988 (the first election I was able to vote in) against George Bush, Sr.

Barry Goldwater. Ran in 1964, born in Arizona when it was still a territory.

George Romney, born in Mexico, ran in 1968 for the Republican nomination against Nixon.

Vice-President Spiro Agnew. Father was a Greek Citizen.

Vice-President Charles Curtis. His mother was a mix of various Native American tribes and French.

[elbe]

http://www.drudgereport.com/ today

That is one horrible eyesore of a website, and you're going to have to be more specific with your links cause I didn't see anything about Hawaii before my eyes screamed mercy and I was forced to close it.

Do you actually have a point that hasn't already been found to be bull?

[tsig]

Well it's the weekend and I have some time...
Did any other previous candidates grandmothers from another country gush about how she saw the candidate born there? Did any other candidates have citizenship in another country? Did any other candidates pass themselves off as a different nationality through their teens and early twenties? These things raise serious questions about Obama's citizenship to the point that merely supplying a photo of a copy of the birth certificate and verified by some writer is not sufficient. The original birth certificate was requested and refused by Obama on the grounds that 'they're only asking for the original because I'm black', despite the serious questions that were raised. Obama's refusal to produce the original only serves to raise further questions about his citizenship. If there were not a witness to his birth in Kenya, or evidence that he later had Indonesian citizenship, then there would be no grounds to seek the original birth certificate... even though he's black, believe it or not.

I think you'll find that George Washington was British for all of his life till he became an American.

[Alferd_Packer]

Did any other candidates pass themselves off as a different nationality through their teens and early twenties?


Did you know him then?

[DrBaltar]

And you repeat a birther lie. Berg intentionally edited out the portion where she stated that he was born in America. You do know that this was brought to light AS soon as the edited converstation was posted by Berg.

Dec. 9, 2008
published at www.lulu.com
(this file Mar 9, 2009)
Looks like it was brought to light after the lawsuit was filed, which makes it irrelevant to the question I was answering since at that time there were serious enough questions being asked to warrant a request of Obama's original birth certificate.

Sorry, but the original is LONG gone. I dont hae my original bC from Hawaii, be cause it was lost, and when I applied for my first job, i had to request a copy. Its not his refusal to do so, HE CAN't SUPPLY SOMETHING THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE!Which would have been a perfectly valid response to the court when they requested his birth certificate.

Yeah, yeah, I know, "just asking questions"... and accusing those who refuse to bow to your partisan racist crap of treason, and costing the US untold amounts of money with your frivolous lawsuits.I think it could have saved the taxpayers a few $trillion if it was shown that Obama was not a natural born US citizen.

I think you'll find that George Washington was British for all of his life till he became an American.Obviously. The rule that presidents must be a natural born citizen didn't apply then. Again, obvious.

[DavidJames]

...there were serious enough questions being asked to warrant a request of Obama's original birth certificate.There were no serious questions, only blind partisan rantings from crazy right wingers and conspiracy theorists.

[elbe]

Looks like it was brought to light after the lawsuit was filed, which makes it irrelevant to the question I was answering since at that time there were serious enough questions being asked to warrant a request of Obama's original birth certificate.

So a certified copy of his COLB isn't good enough? Birthers are claiming conspiracy by the Hawaiian government for... why?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Well it's the weekend and I have some time...
Did any other previous candidates grandmothers from another country gush about how she saw the candidate born there? Did any other candidates have citizenship in another country? Did any other candidates pass themselves off as a different nationality through their teens and early twenties?


You understand that none of this is a direct answer to my question, don't you?

There's a process undertaken by the government to determine whether or not an individual is eligible for the Presidency. You obviously feel that this process was inadequate; that it either failed to uncover or failed to take seriously the information you presented above. Why do you believe that this is the case, rather than the information you present being untrue or irrelevant?

[DrBaltar]

So a certified copy of his COLB isn't good enough? Birthers are claiming conspiracy by the Hawaiian government for... why?Again, because of the other questions being raised at the time of the lawsuit.

You understand that none of this is a direct answer to my question, don't you?

There's a process undertaken by the government to determine whether or not an individual is eligible for the Presidency. You obviously feel that this process was inadequate; that it either failed to uncover or failed to take seriously the information you presented above. Why do you believe that this is the case, rather than the information you present being untrue or irrelevant?The information I presented above is relevant and at the time more than enough to warrant extra scrutiny with his birth certificate beyond the usual photos and 3rd party verification of the birth certificate.

[elbe]

Again, because of the other questions being raised at the time of the lawsuit.

What other questions held any validity?

[boyntonstu]

If you get stopped for speeding do you ask, "Did you stop all the other speeders?"

Next, accuse the officer of being a racist.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The information I presented above is relevant and at the time more than enough to warrant extra scrutiny with his birth certificate beyond the usual photos and 3rd party verification of the birth certificate.


Again with the non-answers...

So you believe the process undertaken by the government is generally inadequate, or was inadequate in the specific case of Barack Hussein Obama. Is that correct?

If so, why?

Do you believe that the government was not aware of the information that you are aware of? If so, how do you explain their current inaction in correcting a rather significant oversight?

Or do you believe that they were aware of this information, but ignored it? If so, what do you imagine to be the reason or reasons for such a dereliction of duty?

[elbe]

If you get stopped for speeding do you ask, "Did you stop all the other speeders?"

Next, accuse the officer of being a racist.

So you have nothing? No argument? No evidence? Nothing? Just non-sequiters?

[TSR]

Which would have been a perfectly valid response to the court when they requested his birth certificate.

.
I'm sorry -- *which* court requested this, again?
.

[Alferd_Packer]

.
I'm sorry -- *which* court requested this, again?
.

The "Peoples Grand Jury Court."

Or judge Judy, I forget which.

[Alferd_Packer]

Obviously. The rule that presidents must be a natural born citizen didn't apply then. Again, obvious.

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

[Alferd_Packer]

I think it could have saved the taxpayers a few $trillion if it was shown that Obama was not a natural born US citizen.


How so?

Have Obama's legal fees been that much already?

[CptColumbo]

I think it could have saved the taxpayers a few $trillion if it was shown that Obama was not a natural born US citizen.


How so?

Have Obama's legal fees been that much already?
I think he/she is assuming that if it were proven that President Obama was not a US Citizen it would automatically make the runner-up in the election the President, and that McCain would never have spent money to bail out companies...etc. Thus showing that he-/she doesn't understand the US Constitution.

[Sledge]

I find it fascinating that McCain's people managed to totally overlook that their opponent was illegibile to stand. That's the sort of thing you'd think they might have used at some point.

[tsig]

I think he/she is assuming that if it were proven that President Obama was not a US Citizen it would automatically make the runner-up in the election the President, and that McCain would never have spent money to bail out companies...etc. Thus showing that he-/she doesn't understand the US Constitution.

Even if it could be proved he was ineligible I don't see how you could invalidate everything that's been done.

You can't unscramble the egg.

[Alferd_Packer]

Even if it could be proved he was ineligible I don't see how you could invalidate everything that's been done.

You can't unscramble the egg.

Google up the "de-facto" officer doctrine.

[tsig]

Google up the "de-facto" officer doctrine.
I see what you mean.

I also found this:

Congress also plays a role in presidential elections. Both Houses meet in joint session on the sixth day of January following a presidential election to count the electoral votes, and there are procedures to follow if no candidate wins a majority.[97]


Seems to me that by declaring Obama the winner they also declared him eligible and since they're the one who are charged to do this the matter is settled.

[Chaos]

Even if it could be proved he was ineligible I don't see how you could invalidate everything that's been done.

You can't unscramble the egg.

If you can Obama´s natural born citizenship invalid just because you want it to be, and declare the evidence for his natural born citizenship nonexistent just because you want it to be, I´m sure you can also unscramble as many eggs as you want.

[Sledge]

I see what you mean.

I also found this:

Congress also plays a role in presidential elections. Both Houses meet in joint session on the sixth day of January following a presidential election to count the electoral votes, and there are procedures to follow if no candidate wins a majority.[97]


Seems to me that by declaring Obama the winner they also declared him eligible and since they're the one who are charged to do this the matter is settled.

But... but... some racists on the internet say he isn't eligible! How can you suggest that the people whose job it is to check this sort of thing are more capable of checking this sort of thing than a bunch of loons who in the 21st century still have an irrational reaction to different levels of melanin?

[ANTPogo]

I find it fascinating that McCain's people managed to totally overlook that their opponent was illegibile to stand. That's the sort of thing you'd think they might have used at some point.

McCain, nothing. Hillary Clinton's people somehow managed to overlook that fact!

Amusingly, back when it was Clinton vs. Obama in a tough nomination race, World Net Daily posted a huge article debunking the whole idea that Obama wasn't a natural-born citizen and wasn't ineligible for the Presidency, mainly because they found it a convenient way to make hated target Hillary Clinton look bad.

Of course, now that Obama has won both the nomination and the general election, they've done a complete 180 and are now at the vanguard of birtherism. But, hysterically, their original anti-birther article can still be found on their website! (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214)

[catsmate1]

And you repeat a birther lie. Berg intentionally edited out the portion where she stated that he was born in America. You do know that this was brought to light AS soon as the edited converstation was posted by Berg.

Birthers LIE.. All of the LIE..

Why do you trust the birthers, who've been shown to LIE over time about Obama?

The correct transcript:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf


In Sara Obama's own words:



Actually several candidates and Presidents in history had citizenship in other countries.

John F. Kennedy was an Irish citizen by virtue of his grandfather and father
James Buchanan, like Kennedy was an Irish Citizen by his father

Thomas Jefferson became a French Citizen before becoming President of the United States

McCain's natural born status was challenged and then affirmed by Congress (of which Obama was apart of).

And what does this have to do with citizenship?

Is there truly an "American" nationality? Nope. I'm a citizen, yet I identify with Japanese culture and nationality.

What "nationality" are you claiming that Obama "passed" himself off as in his "early teens and twenties?"


No, none of what you pointed out carry a lick of credibility to denounce Obama as an American.

What you are repeating are red herrings against Obama.

There is the public birth index that shows Obama was born in 1961 in Hawaii
We have his COLB, which was confirmed as OFFICIAL by the Department of Health in Hawaii
We have the birth announcements in the two Hawaii newspapers at the time (birth announcements can only be submitted by the Department of Vital Statistics in Hawaii)

And that's all that matters.

Source please. This was not stated on his website:
http://fightthesmears.com/

The only reason he released his COLB online was:
That is why he released his COLB as given to him by the State of Hawaii.

The only version that Hawaii releases to residents.

Sorry, but the original is LONG gone. I dont hae my original bC from Hawaii, be cause it was lost, and when I applied for my first job, i had to request a copy. Its not his refusal to do so, HE CAN't SUPPLY SOMETHING THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE!

The only version that Hawaii has released, since the 90's has been the green COLB. The same one that Obama has released. Since 2000, all records are digitized. There is no long form.

There is not even an "original", all information are inputted into a computer and uploaded to the Dept. Of health by the various hospitals. The older records are no longer available to the workers in the Dept. Of Health as they are stored away for safe keeping, in temperature controlled rooms (due to Hawaii's humidity, paper records do not keep). All of those records were scanned to microfiche and available that way until the late 80's and by the 90's the complete database was changed over to computers. Since DB's only need text fields, a person inputted those information that would fit the fields used on the COLB. All of the extraneous information (that does't establish citizenship) were not entered.

There is no paper copy sent to them anymore. And when parents get their child's COLB in the mail, they get the Green COLB that is given to those who request a copy.




Dr.. you're joing in on this conspiracy in the late stages. Birthers are mocked for their hidden and overt racism. All of what you have asked have been addressed, and it seems that you are repeating long debunked birther claims:

Before you post a reply, visit these sites and READ THEM thoroughly. It'll take you about a week at least to get through all the articles on each site, and go through all the LEGAL explanations that you are sorely misunderstanding. So, take a break, go read the articles and come back here when you have a question:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org
http://badfiction.typepad.com -- view the Birther Mythbusting page to see the various articles on birther claims.
http://www.ohforgoodnesssake.com
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/ - you have to register to participate in the Obama Eligiblity threads.
http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/
http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/
One minor niggle with an otherwise excellent post; assuming the James Buchanan you mean is this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Buchanan), he wasn't an Irish citizen; Irish independence was sixty years in the future

[Alferd_Packer]

One minor niggle . . .

The birther mindset in a nutshell. :D

[Alareth]

OMG!!!!

Obama is a SECRET AMERICAN! (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=253097)

[NotJesus]

OMG!!!!

Obama is a SECRET AMERICAN! (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=253097)

Pure Froot Loopery.

I love the finish:

The dissembling that he has had to do to hold it together has cost at least one good man his freedom and his career. If nothing else, our commander in chief owes Lt. Col. Terry Lakin the truth.

Uh, no. What cost Lakin was his decision to disobey orders for no good reason. The army kind of frowns on that.

[CptColumbo]

OMG!!!!

Obama is a SECRET AMERICAN! (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=253097)

BS like that makes me want to punch a dog.

[Thunder]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate

Hawaii's Governor tells Birthers to buzz off.

:)

[CptColumbo]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate

Hawaii's Governor tells Birthers to buzz off.

:)

So, the investigation all these articles that are referencing the Honolulu Star article are talking about, isn't whether the BC exists, but whether the Governor can release it to the public legally.

Why am I not surprised they got that wrong as well?

[TSR]

One minor niggle

.
Actually, there are two minor niggles, and two adult niggl..

Oh, wait -- you said "niggle"


Sorry. Carry on.
.

[Travis]

Has anyone ever pinned down just when this nefarious conspiracy started? I'm curious as to just how many family members were in on it and when they got together to hatch the plan.

[tsig]

OMG!!!!

Obama is a SECRET AMERICAN! (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=253097)


Glad to see they have a definitive answer:






Just who is really Obama's father?

As I was wrapping up my research on my forthcoming book, "Deconstructing Obama," I asked three of the independent investigators with whom I had been consulting who they thought was the biological father of President Barack Obama.

To the uninitiated, this may seem a bizarre question. But those who have followed this story – now, perhaps, including Hawaii's blundering Gov. Neil Abercrombie – will not be surprised to learn that I got three different answers, each of them plausible.



Obama had three dadies that's what accounts for his three different nationalities.:boggled:

[Horatius]

Obama had three dadies that's what accounts for his three different nationalities.:boggled:



This is what we get for embracing homosexual, polygamous marriage!







Well, at least I didn't add miscegenation!

[TSR]

Well, at least I didn't add miscegenation!

Ms. Cegenation?

Best. Third. Grade. Teacher. Evar. Broke my heart when she married Mr. B. I. Raeshul.

[fromdownunder]

Obama had three dadies that's what accounts for his three different nationalities.:boggled:

Oh good, a game.

Lets lok at the options:

USA Father - Malcolm X (but everybody knows that one already)
Indonesian Father - Suharto
Kenyan Father - Idi Amin (yes, I know but Uganda is just up the road)

Norm

[tsig]

Oh good, a game.

Lets lok at the options:

USA Father - Malcolm X (but everybody knows that one already)
Indonesian Father - Suharto
Kenyan Father - Idi Amin (yes, I know but Uganda is just up the road)

Norm

He was also UK so we can add Jack the Ripper.

[fromdownunder]

He was also UK so we can add Jack the Ripper.

Oops, I also left out Darth Vader.

Norm

[Alferd_Packer]

Oops, I also left out Darth Vader.

Norm

DV: Barack . . . I am your father!

BO: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[timhau]

Do we have proof that he doesn't have a cybernetic hand? Why is he hiding that from us?

[TjW]

He's never really hidden it. He just waves it and tells you it's not the cybernetic hand you were looking for.

[BeAChooser]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate


HONOLULU – A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.


Here's the latest …

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/the_birther_trial_balloon.html


January 25, 2011

… snip …

Is anyone really surprised that Hawaii's new governor, Neil Abercrombie, was unable to produce the promised Obama long-form birth certificate? No matter how Abercrombie's words are parsed or interpreted or spun, the fact is that there is no new evidence -- just a story about a supposedly well-intentioned but bungling Hawaiian governor, prohibited from access to the certificate because of Hawaii's privacy laws, who must cease the search before he finds himself labeled another "vexatious requester."


I take no sides … ;)

[boyntonstu]

A Hawaiian friend who played T ball with Obama at age 5 speaks about the Hawaii birth certificate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvrb7YqdvxE

View at 1:32

Are you skeptical?

Is this guy reliable?

[Thunder]

dude, why do you hate Obama?

[Paul]

dude, why do you hate Obama?
Harriet Johnson (http://forums.randi.org/name/nm0217935/): What did he say?
Dr. Sam Johnson (http://forums.randi.org/name/nm0171956/): He said the sheriff is near.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/28694d403cc6d9b8e.jpg

[CptColumbo]

A Hawaiian friend who played T ball with Obama at age 5 speaks about the Hawaii birth certificate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvrb7YqdvxE

View at 1:32

Are you skeptical?

Is this guy reliable?Did you listen to the interview?
The person being discussed seems to be Neil Ambercrombie.
Given what the Governor has said in public, I would find this second hand account to be unreliable.

[boyntonstu]

Did you listen to the interview?
The person being discussed seems to be Neil Ambercrombie.
Given what the Governor has said in public, I would find this second hand account to be unreliable.

"I would find this second hand account to be unreliable."

Let's see what happens in six months.


"Given what the Governor has said in public"

What was his latest comment?

Why do some folks hate fact finders?

If you hate me and you have facts, I will listen to them.

I have never understood deflective, change the subject responses.

If the State of Hawaii will officially proclaim, "We have in our possession the Long Form Birth Certificate for President Obama, but no, you cannot see it."

I would be happier.

Have you ever heard that statement?

[Arus808]

If the State of Hawaii will officially proclaim, "We have in our possession the Long Form Birth Certificate for President Obama, but no, you cannot see it."

I would be happier.

Have you ever heard that statement?


they can't even say that. they can only confirm that they have records which is what they have done, twice.\
And if you wanted to know why they can't show you it, all you have to do is go to Hawaii's DOH page and see who can have access to those records. Its written in black and white.


Why should officials use the specific words that birther want to hear?

Cantor recently wanted to put the birther cred to rest (they thought that he would support their initiatives) and came out saying that Obama was a US Citizen. Birthers (like Taitz and Berg) are saying "SEE! He didn't say that OBAMA was a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN"

You can't satisfy birthers;



http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf


the fact that this has been pointed out several times in this thread, shows that you are only trolling.

[Alferd_Packer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate

Hawaii's Governor tells Birthers to buzz off.

:)

WOW, almost 45,000 comments and most of them from a small group of hard core birthers and racists.

I'm suprised Yahoo lets some of the comments go.

[boyntonstu]

they can't even say that. they can only confirm that they have records which is what they have done, twice.\
And if you wanted to know why they can't show you it, all you have to do is go to Hawaii's DOH page and see who can have access to those records. Its written in black and white.


Why should officials use the specific words that birther want to hear?

Cantor recently wanted to put the birther cred to rest (they thought that he would support their initiatives) and came out saying that Obama was a US Citizen. Birthers (like Taitz and Berg) are saying "SEE! He didn't say that OBAMA was a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN"

You can't satisfy birthers;



http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf


the fact that this has been pointed out several times in this thread, shows that you are only trolling.

Indeed!

Do you know the difference between a Long Form Birth Certificate and an "Official" Birth Certificate?

Did you know that you could obtain an "Official" Birth Certificate through the mail? You didn't have to prove anything.

This is an example of official scrutiny that unfortunately does not apply in the present case:

I moved to Florida and went to register my car.

The MVA clerk walked outside to verify the odometer reading that I wrote on my application.

If a Clerk from Hawaii would walk into their archives and verify that s/he swears that she has seen the Long Form, it would be nice.


"

[NotJesus]

the fact that this has been pointed out several times in this thread, shows that you are only trolling.

Indeed!

Admission noted.

[Paul]

If a Clerk from Hawaii would walk into their archives and verify that s/he swears that she has seen the Long Form, it would be nice.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
Which part of that are you taking issue with?

[timhau]

If you hate me and you have facts, I will listen to them.

Facts.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vd_zVJKziTE/TO_Ow5GbxoI/AAAAAAAAA8U/jbZ7VoM23yw/s1600/mandy%2Bp.jpg

[Sabrina]

If you hate me and you have facts, I will listen to them.

You haven't thus far; why should we believe you now?

[Arus808]

Indeed!

Do you know the difference between a Long Form Birth Certificate and an "Official" Birth Certificate?

THERE IS NO LONG FORM.
Hawaii has never had a LONG form. That is made up term by birthers.
the FORM's content has changed over time (what the form looked like 1961 is VASTLY different than what it looks like today), but that is due to laws being passed about what is MANDATORY information that needs to be on a birth record.

And guess what? The only thing that needs to be on a birth record for all US Citizens (minimum):
Full Name
Birth place (must be in the US for automatic citizenship)
Date of Birth
Registrar's Signature
Embossed Seal (of the state, or department of health)
Date it was signed.


Yup that's it. Anything else doesn't do squat for determining citizenship in America. Anything else is up to the state to decide to include.

Which is why many states have adopted very a form similar to Hawaii's. One factor is due to the rising issue of Identity theft. and one of the reasons why Hawaii has a law that only those who have a relation to the person (or the person themselves) are able to get a copy of their Birth Certificate.

There is no SUCH THING AS A LONG FORM. And birthers like you need to stop repeating this lie.


There is only one type of form, a Birth Record. And many states call it by different names:

Birth Certificate
Certification of Live Birth
Certificate of Live Birth
Certification of Birth
Certificate of Birth

are some that same form are called by.

Hawaii has called their birth record by 2 names over the past 50 years: Certificate of Live Birth and Certification of Live Birth.


Did you know that you could obtain an "Official" Birth Certificate through the mail? You didn't have to prove anything.


Actually 100% false. You can't. I've done this with Hawaii since I'm born there. The application requires you to provide proof that you are the person requesting your copy (send an image of your Drivers License or provide specific information that is found on the BC that would only be known by the person requesting it) otherwise, if you're a relative (ex husband/wife/mother/father) , you have to provide proof that you have an interest in the copy


If a Clerk from Hawaii would walk into their archives and verify that s/he swears that she has seen the Long Form, it would be nice.


THEY DID. I linked to the Press REelases where she admits this! Do you even bother to read the stuff posted in reply to you?

[CptColumbo]

"I would find this second hand account to be unreliable."

Let's see what happens in six months.


"Given what the Governor has said in public"

What was his latest comment?

So you didn't read the Star-Advertiser article.

The relevant portion (again):
I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

(Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down ...

...What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.


Why do some folks hate fact finders?
Why do you hate not looking at the source of your information?

If you hate me and you have facts, I will listen to them.
They have been shown to you many time, but you are ignoring them.

I have never understood deflective, change the subject responses.

If the State of Hawaii will officially proclaim, "We have in our possession the Long Form Birth Certificate for President Obama, but no, you cannot see it."

I would be happier.

Have you ever heard that statement?
Not word for word, but they have said words to that effect.
Congress even passed a resolution naming Hawaii as the birth state of President Obama.
H.R. 593
...Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii;...

[Accidental Martyr]

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
Which part of that are you taking issue with?


Wait a minute, Chiyome Fukino, that name doesn't sound American!!!!!!!!
This is all part of the conspiracy!!!!!!!

[headscratcher4]

Basically, by the logic being used here...there is nothing any Hawaiian can do to prove he/she was born in Hawaii. The only document issued by the state that "certifies" that a person was born in hawaii, so the birther brain must conclude, is a jumped up fraud.

SO, everyone in Hawaii who claims to have been born in Hawaii has, for example, gotten a social security number, a drivers licence, a U.S. passport, applied for college -- any of the things one does with a birth certificate -- essentially all must be guilty of fraud.

Your trolling could be put to much better use. There is more "evidence" that the holocaust didn't happen than Obama was born outside of the U.S. (Hawaii) and is not a citizen. There is more "evidence" that a UFO crashed in Roswell. There is more apparent logic in a belief that the earth is flat.

You birthers all continue to bore the crap out of me with the constant promises of "just wait till...." and than nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. No new facts, no new information, no new ideas.

I'm still waiting for one of you to tell me how they pulled it off in any sort of logical, believable way. How did a 17 yearold pregnant white woman travel from Hawaii to Kenya, have a biracial baby in Kenya and return to the United States where she got the records fixed so that it merely seemed like he was born in the U.S.? And no one at the boarders in either country, at a time of massive racial discrimination in the United States, wonder about a woman returning from Africa with a half-white baby claiming it to be a citizen? Whose passport did the baby travel under? And on and on and on and on.

[A Laughing Baby]

Admit it, everyone: you're secretly as pleased as I am that this conspiracy theory exists because:

1) It makes it very easy to tell when you don't need to take someone seriously, and
2) It's funny as all hell

[CptColumbo]

A Hawaiian friend who played T ball with Obama at age 5 speaks about the Hawaii birth certificate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvrb7YqdvxE

View at 1:32

Are you skeptical?

Is this guy reliable?
BTW IIRC Ambercrombie 22-23 years older than Barack Obama. He had already had a degree when he moved to Hawaii and met the future President's parents.

[Paul]

Wait a minute, Chiyome Fukino, that name doesn't sound American!!!!!!!!
This is all part of the conspiracy!!!!!!!Hmmm, I think you might be on to something, look at the suspicious foreign way she spells Hawaii.

[headscratcher4]

just to note...this thread was started in OCTOBER of 09. In all of that time...when it comes to "evidence"....crickets, loud, noisey crickets and the promise that if we wait just a little longer it will all be shown to be true. Crickets.

[Arus808]

The racism and anti-semitism is alive with Lame Cherry, who has an issue with Eric Cantor

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/eric-cantor-disney-and-dupnik-are.html


Her "Questions for Obama" is a hoot:

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/questions-for-bill-obama.html

and of course she amps up the crazy and racism:

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/do-you-now-believe.html


"It was not that long ago that this blog laid out the entire scenarios housed in archives and in public (yes the spiders and the brown recluse in the White House basement have live feed surveillance and grab things off the internet people are typing immediately.) concerning the Clinton coup par dux involving their two legs in Rahm Emanuel and Neil Abercrombie in thee must noted Deep Pineapple operation."

[boyntonstu]

THERE IS NO LONG FORM.
Hawaii has never had a LONG form. That is made up term by birthers.
the FORM's content has changed over time (what the form looked like 1961 is VASTLY different than what it looks like today), but that is due to laws being passed about what is MANDATORY information that needs to be on a birth record.

And guess what? The only thing that needs to be on a birth record for all US Citizens (minimum):
Full Name
Birth place (must be in the US for automatic citizenship)
Date of Birth
Registrar's Signature
Embossed Seal (of the state, or department of health)
Date it was signed.


Yup that's it. Anything else doesn't do squat for determining citizenship in America. Anything else is up to the state to decide to include.

Which is why many states have adopted very a form similar to Hawaii's. One factor is due to the rising issue of Identity theft. and one of the reasons why Hawaii has a law that only those who have a relation to the person (or the person themselves) are able to get a copy of their Birth Certificate.

There is no SUCH THING AS A LONG FORM. And birthers like you need to stop repeating this lie.


There is only one type of form, a Birth Record. And many states call it by different names:

Birth Certificate
Certification of Live Birth
Certificate of Live Birth
Certification of Birth
Certificate of Birth

are some that same form are called by.

Hawaii has called their birth record by 2 names over the past 50 years: Certificate of Live Birth and Certification of Live Birth.




Actually 100% false. You can't. I've done this with Hawaii since I'm born there. The application requires you to provide proof that you are the person requesting your copy (send an image of your Drivers License or provide specific information that is found on the BC that would only be known by the person requesting it) otherwise, if you're a relative (ex husband/wife/mother/father) , you have to provide proof that you have an interest in the copy




THEY DID. I linked to the Press REelases where she admits this! Do you even bother to read the stuff posted in reply to you?


Here is an example of a Hawaiian Long Form http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/longform.jpg

Here is what Obama has released http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/shortform.jpg

Do you stand corrected, or do you still maintain that there was no Long Form at the time of Obama's birth?

[headscratcher4]

Again and again and again...what Obama has released is all that Hawaii produces as evidence of birth and it is a document completelly accepted as proof of birth in the U.S. by every state and the Federal government. It is the only document that anyone from Hawaii is likely ever to get that officially "certifies" their birth.

What part of this don't you understand?

[Sledge]

They don't understand the part where a black man is allowed to become president. Surely there's some law against that?

[timhau]

They don't understand the part where a black man is allowed to become president. Surely there's some law against that?

It's not so much law but a matter of common decency, but the uppity negro took the White House (that hint ain't too subtle, folks) anyway.

[Arus808]

Here is an example of a Hawaiian Long Form http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/longform.jpg


One from 1961 (i dont click on links to WND , but Im assuming its the Nordyke BC's)

if Mrs. Nordyke or the twins went to Hawaii today, and requested a copy of their COLB, this what they would get too.


Here is what Obama has released http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/shortform.jpgHere is mine:

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4783/newhawaiicolb.jpg

Ordered in 2010. I also have one from 2006 and from 1999 (why so many copies? because like my own original copy my parents lost, I can't find the copies I ordered as I only need to produce one if I'm getting a job or need fill out paperwork that requires it)

The only difference is that in 2008, they changed the title of their form to Certificate of Live Birth, instead of Certification of Live Birth



The above is good enough:
for a passport
to get a drivers license
to file IRS Tax documents


As for why Obama doesn't have his original copy (like I do). Maybe his parents lost it (like mines did)? Maybe through the moving from Hawaii to Indonesia and then back to Hawaii in 1971 it got destroyed or misplaced (paper does so well in humid countries)? I don't know, nor does it matter.

Did you miss the part in my response that in the 50 years that Hawaii has been a State, the form has changed with time reflecting on laws that have been passed and what is really needed to be in a Birth Certificate? Of course you did, because you're delusional.


Do you stand corrected, or do you still maintain that there was no Long Form at the time of Obama's birth?Again there IS NO SUCH THING AS LONG FORM birth certificate.

IT has always been a Certificate of Live Birth or a Certification of Live Birth (the name on the form has changed over the years, back and forth between the two). THE CONTENT has changed over the 50 years to reflect CURRENT LAWS on what is NEEDED to be on a COLB for identification and citizenship purposes! To be a natural born all it has to show is WHERE YOU WERE BORN, WHEN YOU WERE BORN and if an official has signed off on it (the registrar at the Department of Health).

EVERYTHING ELSE is just information that the CDC would like to have. Other than it serves NO Purpose to the average joe and isn't used for citizenship issues.

ETA: removing new york claim, will reply below

[boyntonstu]

One from 1961 (i dont click on links to WND , but Im assuming its the Nordyke BC's)

if Mrs. Nordyke or the twins went to Hawaii today, and requested a copy of their COLB, this what they would get too




Here is mine:

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4783/newhawaiicolb.jpg

Ordered in 2010

The only difference is that in 2008, they changed the title of their form to Certificate of Live Birth, instead of Certification of Live Birth



The above is good enough:
for a passport
to get a drivers license
to file IRS Tax documents

Did you miss the part in my response that in the 50 years that Hawaii has been a State, the form has changed with time reflecting on laws that have been passed and what is really needed to be in a Birth Certificate? Of course you did, because you're delusional.





Again there IS NO SUCH THING AS LONG FORM birth certificate.

IT has always been a Certificate of Live Birth or a Certification of Live Birth (the name on the form has changed over the years, back and forth between the two). THE CONTENT has changed over the 50 years to reflect CURRENT LAWS on what is NEEDED to be on a COLB for identification and citizenship purposes! To be a natural born all it has to show is WHERE YOU WERE BORN, WHEN YOU WERE BORN and if an official has signed off on it (the registrar at the Department of Health).

EVERYTHING ELSE is just information that the CDC would like to have. Other than it serves NO Purpose to the average joe.

Holy damn you have mash potatoes for brains.

There is no such thing as a document entitled "Long Form". I agree.

There was a document with lots of information on it that measures larger than the COLB issued by Hawaii and which was shown by Obama.

The birthers refer to larger document as the Long Form.

Perhaps the Capitalization causes the confusion.

I will restate:

Produce the document that existed at the time of Obama's birth with the name of the hospital and the name of the attending physician.

I know, it does not exist, or if it does, it may not be shown.

[Alferd_Packer]

Produce the document that existed at the time of Obama's birth with the name of the hospital and the name of the attending physician.



Why?

The document already produced satisfies the consitutional requirements. Why do you insist on more?

[Arus808]

There is no such thing as a document entitled "Long Form". I agree.


then why do you continue to refer to it as the "Long Form". The only reason is to discredit a FEDERALLY accepted form that is issued by the Department of Health in the State of Hawaii. Their only form.


There was a document with lots of information on it that measures larger than the COLB issued by Hawaii and which was shown by Obama.Evidence? please link to this made up crap so we can show you why its made up crap.

The birthers refer to larger document as the Long Form.
They do this because they WANT to discredit the validity of the COLB as issued by Hawaii.

To continue to do this, they only show they are NOT interested in anything that Hawaii will provide. They are ignoring EVERY federal law in the book aS WEll as the US Constitution's Full Faith and Credit Clause.

Perhaps the Capitalization causes the confusion.Nope it doesn't > It's nothing but rhetoric. Capitalization or not. The purpose is clear: to discredit the ONLY official form that Hawaii provides.

I will restate:

Produce the document that existed at the time of Obama's birth with the name of the hospital and the name of the attending physician.
Can't do that. There is a thing called privacy laws. As been told you several times in this thread alone. In fact Obama cannot even get a copy of the ORIGINAL because of the way the originals are NOW currently stored (all COLB's before 1999, before they went digital in 2000 are not accessible by the public)


I know, it does not exist, or if it does, it may not be shown.He has shown the COLB as issued by Hawaii on the ONLY FORM that Hawaii gives out.


Please show us YOUR original COLB when you were born and go in and request a copy from your Department of Health to see how much the form has changed over the years.

I can't even do it for mines, because my copy is long gone. I can only get the one form given out by the State of hawaii


BTW, all new parents in the state of hawaii only get the GREEN COLB as shown above. That means by your stupid standard, no one born in Hawaii since 2000, is a citizen at all.

[jadebox]

How did a 17 year-old pregnant white woman travel from Hawaii to Kenya, have a biracial baby in Kenya and return to the United States where she got the records fixed so that it merely seemed like he was born in the U.S.?

And, why would she travel from Hawaii to Kenya?

-- Roger

[Accidental Martyr]

Hmmm, I think you might be on to something, look at the suspicious foreign way she spells Hawaii.

Damn right! She can't be a real American!!!!!

[Juniversal]

WOW, almost 45,000 comments and most of them from a small group of hard core birthers and racists.

I'm suprised Yahoo lets some of the comments go.Gotta love the internet. :D

[timhau]

And, why would she travel from Hawaii to Kenya?

-- Roger

So they could plant Beelzebub's seed in her.

[Arus808]

Example of New York Birth Certificate

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1970/birthscan1.jpg:

oh dang, even less information than Hawaii's..



Texas:
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4443/birth20certificate20for.jpg


oh dang....even less than Hawaii's




ETA: these can be found by a simple google search on Birth certificates.

[A Laughing Baby]

Why?

The document already produced satisfies the consitutional requirements. Why do you insist on more?

As if you don't already know that even if such a document were produced, it still wouldn't be enough. There would be some new document that needed releasing, and that would show the real story.

[Juniversal]

Her "Questions for Obama" is a hoot:

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/questions-for-bill-obama.html

and of course she amps up the crazy and racism:

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/do-you-now-believe.html:confused: Hilarity but this woman needs some help. That whole blog could be Poe lol.

ETA: Wow @ question 7.. :eye-poppi

[Alferd_Packer]

Admit it, everyone: you're secretly as pleased as I am that this conspiracy theory exists because:

1) It makes it very easy to tell when you don't need to take someone seriously, and
2) It's funny as all hell

You got that right.

[boyntonstu]

As if you don't already know that even if such a document were produced, it still wouldn't be enough. There would be some new document that needed releasing, and that would show the real story.


First produce it and then we will see the reaction, if any.

I doubt that it will ever be produced.

When the 'minor' Watergate break in occurred, a friend said to me that the wheels will start grinding, but ever so slow.

I believe that is what is happening now.

We will see.

[A Laughing Baby]

First produce it and then we will see the reaction, if any.

I doubt that it will ever be produced.

When the 'minor' Watergate break in occurred, a friend said to me that the wheels will start grinding, but ever so slow.

I believe that is what is happening now.

We will see.

So, when nothing happens on this, what will your reaction be? Are you just going to pretend it never happened?

[CptColumbo]

And, why would she travel from Hawaii to Kenya?

-- Roger

Obviously for the better quality of health care.

[CptColumbo]

Here is mine:

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4783/newhawaiicolb.jpg


Cracker!


ETA: I do still have the one that was obtained in 70s that has hospital and the doctor's signature. Mainly because my grandmother kept them in a scrap book (there were 5 copies). I used one to get my current passport. When I got a passport in the 80s (I didn't know grandma had one) it was a long process that involved going to the county office and waiting while the clerk searched the records by hand an photo copied it and stamped it. The whole thing took about 2 hours. I'm not even sure what we issue in Minnesota now.

[jadebox]

This reminds me of when my father needed to get a passport. He needed his birth certificate. We were on vacation in Ohio so he was able to request it in person. I don't recall the details, but the local municipality no longer kept the records and had them all transferred to county or state. When they did, they didn't transer the actual records, they transcribed them into new records.

So, my father picks up his birth certificate and it lists a different spelling for his middle name (and my middle name) than the one he (and I) had been using all his (my) life. We'd both been living a lie! The name on his wedding license and his name on my birth certificate were wrong.

(Just think of what the birthers would have said if Obama's name was mispelled on his COLB.)

Anyway, it would not have been surprising to me if original records from Obama's birth no longer existed in Hawaii. It is actually a little suprising to me that they apparently do.

-- Roger

[Chaos]

First produce it and then we will see the reaction, if any.

I doubt that it will ever be produced.

When the 'minor' Watergate break in occurred, a friend said to me that the wheels will start grinding, but ever so slow.

I believe that is what is happening now.

We will see.

Has any birther ever proven that this alleged "long form" actually exists, by providing this alleged "long form" for any other person born on Hawaii in 1961?

If so, where is it?

If not, why not?

[Alferd_Packer]

Well they have provided the so-called "Nordyke Twins" BCs. What is interesting is that these two girls were born in the same hospital at about the same time as Obama and the record number is just a few digits off. Since the numbers were preprinted on the forms by the state before they were sent to the hospital, it just confirms that Obama was born in the same hospital at about the same time.

[boyntonstu]

Well they have provided the so-called "Nordyke Twins" BCs. What is interesting is that these two girls were born in the same hospital at about the same time as Obama and the record number is just a few digits off. Since the numbers were preprinted on the forms by the state before they were sent to the hospital, it just confirms that Obama was born in the same hospital at about the same time.

Is there any other possibility other than what you stated?

If Mr. Sherlock Holmes was on the case, he might discover other possibilities.

Fact: The "Complete" Form exists for the "Nordyke Twins".

Fact: A computer form was produced with a near number. (1998?)

Fact: There is no evidence that the "Complete" Form exists for Obama .

What are the possibilities that would explain the above?

[Accidental Martyr]

If Mr. Sherlock Holmes was on the case, he might discover other possibilities.

Why don't you call him up and get him on the case?

[CptColumbo]

Is there any other possibility other than what you stated?

If Mr. Sherlock Holmes was on the case, he might discover other possibilities.
He is a work of fiction, much like the fantasy that Obama was born outside the USA.
Fact: The "Complete" Form exists for the "Nordyke Twins".
How do you know? Did you see it? Did you interview the doctors to make sure their signatures were not forged? What proof do you have that these so-called "Nordyke Twins" even exist?

Fact: A computer form was produced with a near number. (1998?)

Fact: There is no evidence that the "Complete" Form exists for Obama .
The evidence is that he has a certificate with a reference number on it.

What are the possibilities that would explain the above?
That you are not paying attention.

[ANTPogo]

Fact: The "Complete" Form exists for the "Nordyke Twins".

Fact: A computer form was produced with a near number. (1998?)

Fact: There is no evidence that the "Complete" Form exists for Obama .

What are the possibilities that would explain the above?

There's only one: At birth, Obama and the Nordyke Twins were given copies of the Birth Certificate as it was issued at the time. Somewhere in the intervening forty-odd years, Obama or his parents/stepparents/grandparents lost their 1961 copy. When Obama requested a new copy from the Hawaii department of health, he was given a copy of the Birth Certificate as it was issued at that time.

As has been explained to you before, if the Nordyke twins do exactly what Obama did, and ask for another copy of their Birth Certificates from the Hawaii DOH, they will get the exact same form Obama got. And only that form.

[Alferd_Packer]

if the Nordyke twins do exactly what Obama did, and ask for another copy of their Birth Certificates from the Hawaii DOH, they will get the exact same form Obama got. And only that form.

that form with the same record number as on the "long" version.

Furthermore, a careful examination of the Nordyke BC indicates that it is in fact a certified copy issued in 1964, not 1961.

[timhau]

Is there any other possibility other than what you stated?

If Mr. Sherlock Holmes was on the case, he might discover other possibilities.

Yes. As Bertrand Russell once wrote, "the worse your logic, the more interesting the consequences to which it gives rise".

[boyntonstu]

that form with the same record number as on the "long" version.

Furthermore, a careful examination of the Nordyke BC indicates that it is in fact a certified copy issued in 1964, not 1961.


Good. Careful examination.

Certified copies are acceptable.

I would like to see a Certified copy of Obama's BC.

Latest News:

Celebrity Journalist: I Never Spoke to Hawaii Gov About Obama Birth Certificate

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/#ixzz1F9g0qSxt

This is the whole deal of Long vs Short

"In 2008, the Obama campaign provided a certification of live birth -- a shorter form document that bears the same legal weight as the more detailed original certificate of live birth -- to prove his eligibility to be president. That has not quelled calls by those who have asked for the president’s original, longer form birth certificate, which they maintain would more clearly prove his status as a natural-born American citizen."

[Mojo]

This is the whole deal of Long vs Short

"In 2008, the Obama campaign provided a certification of live birth -- a shorter form document that bears the same legal weight as the more detailed original certificate of live birth -- to prove his eligibility to be president. That has not quelled calls by those who have asked for the president’s original, longer form birth certificate, which they maintain would more clearly prove his status as a natural-born American citizen."



My emphasis.

So it's a complete waste of time.

[JoelKatz]

Ooh, this is a good excuse to tell the story of my youngest sister's birth certificate: My sister's original birth certificate is on file in an office in a small town in New York, the office that issued it. Her birth certificate is the only birth certificate on file there!

The town was incorporated, and just a few years later the regulations changed so that birth certificates were issued by the county, not the town. There were no hospitals in the town, but she was unexpectedly born at home during a snowstorm. So her birth certificate was the only one the town ever issued and the only one they have on file.

Any time she needs to obtain a new copy, and she has a few times in her life, she goes through an amusing telephone exchange.

[timhau]

This is the whole deal of Long vs Short

"In 2008, the Obama campaign provided a certification of live birth -- a shorter form document that bears the same legal weight as the more detailed original certificate of live birth -- to prove his eligibility to be president. That has not quelled calls by those who have asked for the president’s original, longer form birth certificate, which they maintain would more clearly prove his status as a natural-born American citizen."


Or, in not so many words:

Matter settled. Nutjobs keep on making noise.

[elbe]

That has not quelled calls by those who have asked for the president’s original, longer form birth certificate, which they maintain would more clearly prove his status as a natural-born American citizen.

Seems like a demand to see a piece of paper issued 40-50 years ago. Does that not seem somewhat unfair to everyone who has ever lost their original copy?

[Sabrina]

I was born in Ohio.

At one point, not long after I moved, I was providing paperwork for my periodic reinvestigation (for my security clearance) and was told I needed to provide a copy of my birth certificate. Now, my mother had given me my original some time before, but at the time I was unable to find it; as I said, I had recently moved and wasn't sure which box it was in. So, I contacted the Ohio department of Vital Statistics via their online website, and after providing proof of my identity, was able to request a new copy, which they sent to me in PDF format as well as hardcopy, assuring me that it would suffice in either form.

Not long after that, I discovered my original in a pile of papers, and having received the other, compared them. The information on the FULLY LEGAL and ACCEPTED copy the department had sent to me when I requested a new one was much less than the information on the original, yet I have since used the second copy to renew my drivers license and on several other occasions. Were I to run for President (God forbid; I quail at the thought of being a supervisor at work, since I'm doing it in the military in an entirely different format and would likely have trouble keeping the two separate), I could provide either copy to Congress as proof that I had been born in the United States in Montgomery County, Dayton, Ohio in 1978, and no one would question it.

This bears repeating, boyntonstu; EITHER COPY IS SUFFICIENT TO PROVIDE LEGAL, ACCEPTED PROOF THAT I AM A NATURAL-BORN CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES.

Sorry for the yelling, everyone, but nothing else seems to be getting through to this apparently thick-headed individual, so I thought I'd give it a shot. So, boyntonstu, if I WERE to run for president and only provided the second copy I received from the Ohio Office of Vital Statistics, the one that has less information than the original yet is still a fully notarized, legally accepted document in any state in this country that I am a natural-born citizen, to Congress, which is the only legal body in the entire United States capable of determining my eligibility to run for that office, would you then insist upon seeing my original as well?

Oh wait, I forgot... I'm white. No, you probably wouldn't ask to see the original at all. Although I suppose there's the possibility that you'd appear to be a chauvinist, in addition to APPEARING to be a racist, so maybe you would demand it since I'm a woman. :rolleyes:

So, I would like to pose a question to you, boyntonstu. What is it about the perfectly acceptable, LEGAL document that has been provided by the President as proof of his birth in the United States in the state of Hawai'i that you find unacceptable or lacking in proof? As far as I can tell, you have yet to explain exactly what it is you want to see, so why not do us all a favor and just explain what you WOULD accept as proof, if it's not this fully legal document provided by the Hawai'i Office of Vital Statistics, the sworn statement of the Hawai'i registrar stating there is a birth certificate on file in their office, the birth announcement in the paper, and the testimony of several other valid persons that President Barack H. Obama was born in Hawai'i and is therefore a natural-born citizen of the United States. Either that, or admit that the real reason you joined with this ridiculous crusade is because you, like most of the uneducated idiots who espouse this view, just don't think a black man should be elected President. Or maybe you're just a rabid McCain supporter; I have no idea. All I am sure of is that there is another reason besides your supposed concern about the President's eligibility to hold the office that drives you to make these idiotic claims that have no evidence whatsoever to back them up.

[boyntonstu]

Seems like a demand to see a piece of paper issued 40-50 years ago. Does that not seem somewhat unfair to everyone who has ever lost their original copy?

The President of the US is not anyone.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.

Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?

I had another thought this morning about Obama's refusal to release his BC.

Perhaps he was born in Hawaii and his father's name is not the father as shown on the BC.

Is this possible?

[Sabrina]

The President of the US is not anyone.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.

Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?

The FBI doesn't have any right to demand to see the original; as has been stated several times, it would violate privacy laws, and not even the FBI can violate those. It is likely that they would merely ask the office if he were in fact born in that state and would accept a sworn statement from the registrar that there is one on file.

Being a criminal/terrorist does not negate the fact that said criminal/terrorist still has rights in this country, one of them being the right to an expectation of privacy in certain matters, this being one of them.

[drkitten]

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

No, and no.

[boyntonstu]

No, and no.

Dream on, you are living in a fantasy world.

The TSA can X-ray and grope you, but the FBI can't see a document.

The internet is private, as are your telephone conversations.

Right!

[drkitten]

The TSA can X-ray and grope you, but the FBI can't see a document.

That's right. That's because the State of Hawaii has a privilege you don't have; it has the authority to make its own laws, which the FBI is bound to respect.

[elbe]

The President of the US is not anyone.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.

Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?

I had another thought this morning about Obama's refusal to release his BC.

Perhaps he was born in Hawaii and his father's name is not the father as shown on the BC.

Is this possible?

In the modern, technology age keeping paper copies of all those documents would just be wasteful. I find it better to keep the information stored someplace so anyone who has a vested, and legal, reason to view it can. Of course not everyone is as pro-paperless as I am, so keeping fiche copies of the analog age documents is probably a good safety net.

Remember, the information on the documents are more important than the actual documents. Requesting to see a document that they don't provide anymore and isn't a legal requirement for anything is just stupid.

ETA: However, to play along with your crazy little world, every president will now need to show an original copy of their birth certificate. If it isn't roughly the same age as themselves then they are no longer qualified to be president. Is that how you want it?

[A Laughing Baby]

Dream on, you are living in a fantasy world.

The TSA can X-ray and grope you, but the FBI can't see a document.

The internet is private, as are your telephone conversations.

Right!

I think you may be confusing "things that are permitted by law that I don't like" and "things that I like that are not permitted by law."

[boyntonstu]

That's right. That's because the State of Hawaii has a privilege you don't have; it has the authority to make its own laws, which the FBI is bound to respect.

A fire engine, a police car, and a mail truck approach an intersection.

Which vehicle has the right of way? Federal, state, or local?

[ANTPogo]

A fire engine, a police car, and a mail truck approach an intersection.

Which vehicle has the right of way? Federal, state, or local?

The vehicle of even the smallest local police department will have right of way over the Federal mail truck. Unless its lights and siren are off. Then it's just a matter of whoever got to the stop sign first.

[A Laughing Baby]

And before you bring up the example you're probably about to, the FBI can't just swoop in and take over an investigation like they do in police shows. Unless it's an investigation of something that could be a federal crime, in which case it's a jurisdictional matter.

[Alferd_Packer]

In the modern, technology age keeping paper copies of all those documents would just be wasteful.

Even 50 years ago it was wasteful.

Vital records were microfilmed long ago. The fact that the "Nordyke Twins" BC which was issued in 1964 is a white on black copy indicates that it is a zerograph of a microfilmed document.

[timhau]

A fire engine, a police car, and a mail truck approach an intersection.

Which vehicle has the right of way? Federal, state, or local?

The one with the craziest driver.

[boyntonstu]

...........In Georgia, for example, HB37 by Rep. Bobby Franklin not only demands original birth-certificate documentation, it provides a procedure for and declares that citizens have "standing" to challenge the documentation......."

Read more: 10 states now developing eligibility proof-demands http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=255965#ixzz1FBBwb8bd

[ANTPogo]

...........In Georgia, for example, HB37 by Rep. Bobby Franklin not only demands original birth-certificate documentation, it provides a procedure for and declares that citizens have "standing" to challenge the documentation......."

Read more: 10 states now developing eligibility proof-demands http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=255965#ixzz1FBBwb8bd

As a sign of how bone-stupid these bills are, the Texas one, as written, would prevent anyone from ever being certified as as a presidential candidate in that state.

[Thunder]

Obama is the President of the United States of America and the Commander in Chief of America's armed forces.

Case closed.

[tsig]

The President of the US is not anyone.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.

Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?

I had another thought this morning about Obama's refusal to release his BC.

Perhaps he was born in Hawaii and his father's name is not the father as shown on the BC.

Is this possible?

Now Obama's a terrorist?

[carlitos]

Now Obama's a terrorist?

Now?

[tsig]

A fire engine, a police car, and a mail truck approach an intersection.

Which vehicle has the right of way? Federal, state, or local?

The biggest one.

[headscratcher4]

The President of the US is not anyone.

Actually, with respect to a birth certificate issued by the State where he/she was born, the President is exactly like anyone else. A request for a certified birth certificate from the State of Hawaii by any citizen will result in exactly the document that has been provided to Obama and to the media. The law (see below) says that this is the official birth certificate of the State and is proof that the person on the birth certificate was born in the state. You cant say


The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.?

To suggest that the law says something different than it does. The LAW of Hawaii says that the form provided is proof of birth in the state and is recognized by the State (and thus by all states and the federal government) as proof of live birth in the state of Hawaii.

As you said, the law says what the law says. That some people are seeking "verification" is not only irrelevant -- as they BY LAW may not be permitted or have any right to what you call "verification" -- but, additionally, the law of the state does, in fact, provide exactly the "verification" you say you want. The State of Hawaii says that he was born there and that is all the law provides and that is all the proof the law requires.


Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?.?

The easy answer is NO they would not be able to "go beyond" the Hawaii law BECAUSE that is the only official state document of the birth that now exists. THe FBI would by law take the State Certification for what it legally is CERTIFIED PROOF by the State that the person on the birth certificate was born in the state. This would not just be true for Hawaii but most if not all other states that essentially (in one form or another ) do the same thing. Your senario simply doesn't work either legally or from an investagatory stand point.

[/QUOTE]

I had another thought this morning about Obama's refusal to release his BC.

It is good that your thinking, but so sad that your thinking is so muddled to the point where you accept lies as truth. The one certain thing here is that Obama has not ever refused to release his birth certificate. He has released it. It is on the web for all to see. It has been examined by experts who have confirmed that it is an official State of Hawaii birth certificate.

What he hasn't done is release the super secret special magical birth certificate that only Obama of everyone born in Hawaii was issued. But that one, I'm afraid, is probably not admissible in any court of law -- specifically because the crayon coloring is smudged and the issuer colored outside the lines.


[/QUOTE]

Perhaps he was born in Hawaii and his father's name is not the father as shown on the BC.

Is this possible?

Sure, the sun may not come up tomorrow. That's possible too. What difference would it make? The stupidity of your "possiblity" is, essentially to admit that he was born in Hawaii. What difference do you think it would make to anyone if his father isn't Barrak Obama Sr? Especially in this day and age...we've had other presidents born of different fathers than the names they carry ... Gerald Ford and Bill Clinton for example (borh Leslie King and William Blythe). It is a meaningless possiblity that completely undermines your magical premise that the President was somehow born in Kenya to a Marxist/Islamofaciest father and is not a citizen. Get your freak'n conspiracies straigth.

BTW, what do we really know about Lislie King Sr?

[tsig]

As a sign of how bone-stupid these bills are, the Texas one, as written, would prevent anyone from ever being certified as as a presidential candidate in that state.

That's the logical result of the demand that both parents be US citizens because that means that all four of your grandparents also be US citizens and at some point you'll have a non Us citizen in the family tree thereby tainting all the fruit.

[Chaos]

The President of the US is not anyone.

Indeed. He is the person who is hounded by partisan racist bigots because they do not like the color of his skin.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The law says what is says. Some folks don´t like what it says, and even that the law be ignored to satisfy their bigotry.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.


That´s what the law says. The law also says that what Obama provided is sufficient to be eligible as president.

So why should a bunch of partisan racist bigots be allowed to ignore the law?

[tsig]

Now?

Yeah, he's been terrorizing the racist rubes since it looked like he had a legitimate shot at the presidency.:D

[Accidental Martyr]

dream on, you are I am living in a fantasy world.

ftfy

[TSR]

The vehicle of even the smallest local police department will have right of way over the Federal mail truck. Unless its lights and siren are off. Then it's just a matter of whoever got to the stop sign first.
.
Sorry, but no.

But as a postal delivery worker with 50 years of experience told me "We're not going to be *stupid* about it."

Right of way is given, it is not taken. And legally, Federal always trumps Local or State. You just better have a d*mn good reason to do so in this kind of case.
.

[BenBurch]

WOW, almost 45,000 comments and most of them from a small group of hard core birthers and racists.

I'm suprised Yahoo lets some of the comments go.

I'm sure the Secret Service will be paying some of them a visit.

[BenBurch]

BTW, the people MOST upset about the change in detail of what is on the birth certificate are astrologers, who want the exact time of birth, not just the date.

[ANTPogo]

.
Sorry, but no.

But as a postal delivery worker with 50 years of experience told me "We're not going to be *stupid* about it."

Right of way is given, it is not taken. And legally, Federal always trumps Local or State. You just better have a d*mn good reason to do so in this kind of case.
.

This (http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/fourway.asp)indicates otherwise.

[TSR]

BTW, the people MOST upset about the change in detail of what is on the birth certificate are astrologers, who want the exact time of birth, not just the date.
.
Yeah, but then they go and change everything up on us. I've lived all my life happy and content as an Aquarius, and now they tell me I'm a Capricorn? Those guys *suck*.

I am *so* bummed.

Maybe my palm reader can cheer me up...
.

[Thunder]

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

no, bigots who do not want a black man with Muslim roots and liberal ideas as POTUS, are seeking verification.

if Obama was a conservative Republican, his ancestry and religion would NOT be in doubt.

lets make that very clear.

[Alareth]

Lets see how some people in this thread wrap their head around this one ...

I was born in El Paso, TX yet I have a Rhode Island Birth Certificate.

[Accidental Martyr]

Lets see how some people in this thread wrap their head around this one ...

I was born in El Paso, TX yet I have a Rhode Island Birth Certificate.

You're obviously lying and are a Muslim born in Kenya. ;)

[PhantomWolf]

So boyntonstu,

Simple question for you. If Arus808 was running for President in 2012, would you be willing to accept her CoLB shown in Post #2170 (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6810235&postcount=2170) as proof that she was entitled to do so?

[boyntonstu]

So boyntonstu,

Simple question for you. If Arus808 was running for President in 2012, would you be willing to accept her CoLB shown in Post #2170 (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6810235&postcount=2170) as proof that she was entitled to do so?

Yes, under these conditions:

A state official swears under oath and subject to perjury that CoLB was born in the state as printed on the computer form.

That all other Constitutional requirements for office also be attested to under oath and subject to perjury by the Party leader.


Have you ever hear of forged documents, bonds, currency, passports, etc?

This isn't Little League, it is the President of the U.S. whose finger will be on the nuclear button.

Extremely important officials require extremely careful vetting.

[Paul]

Yes, under these conditions...OK, as you didn't answer before, I'll ask again.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

Which part of that are you taking issue with?

[A Laughing Baby]

Would you be this concerned about it if McCain had been elected? Would you even had asked for his birth certificate in the first place?

[headscratcher4]

"This isn't Little League, it is the President of the U.S. whose finger will be on the nuclear button."

Yes, and with absolutely NO PROOF WHATSOEVER you are charging officials of the the State of Hawaii with perpetrating a fraud. But it is more than a fraud, it really has no name, because you are alleging that they are lying about the validity of a certified document that is the only document that the state can and has to issue in this circumstance. The State says it is official and certified. The Head of the State Department of Health said that it was varified. The state law makes it the only document that the state will issue. Every state in the Union and the federal government accept this document as the one and only certified birth certificate for the individual in question and use it for all manner of government and non-govenmental purposes (e.g. getting a passport to applying for college) yet YOU in all of your brilliance know that a fraud is being perpetraited. You can't prove it. You, in fact have absolutely no evidence for the assertion what so ever. You can't show any instance where the document of type the state issued in this case is different than a certified birth certificate that the state would issue today for anyone born in Hawaii.

Yet you know in some dank sub basement (below the Hawaii 50 office one presumes) that there is a super secret file cabinent where they've depostied the mysterious long form birth certificate that contains more information than is available or required by the official form. That the State is hiding that document. THat the elected president of the United States has a copy or has seen that document and that is the real real real birth certificate...the super special official one -- the one that only the really special top secret people in the illuminati get access to...oh yes, and maybe the FBI if the president helps bomb a building somewhere. Sheesh.


Your objections are made up of thin air. They have no evidentiary value. They have no legal value. They are in fact completely illogical -- i.e you nor none of you happy birthers can explain in any coherent way the chain of events and how it would have happened that would take Mrs. Obama to Kenya for the birth of her son and than back to Hawaii where they got a jumped up fake birth certificate. This isn't even a crop circle. This is hearsay of someone who thinks they once saw a ghost boarding a UFO in his back yard and wants to report it to the police as a trespass.

[Accidental Martyr]

Would you be this concerned about it if McCain had been elected? Would you even had asked for his birth certificate in the first place?

There were some questions about McCain's eligibility since he was born outside the US but he's, you know,..........not black.

[tsig]

Yes, under these conditions:

A state official swears under oath and subject to perjury that CoLB was born in the state as printed on the computer form.

That all other Constitutional requirements for office also be attested to under oath and subject to perjury by the Party leader.


Have you ever hear of forged documents, bonds, currency, passports, etc?

This isn't Little League, it is the President of the U.S. whose finger will be on the nuclear button.

Extremely important officials require extremely careful vetting.

The Constitutional requirements were satisfied when Congress certified the election.

[A Laughing Baby]

There were some questions about McCain's eligibility since he was born outside the US but he's, you know,..........not black.

Wow, way to give away the punchline to my rhetorical question >:[

[boyntonstu]

.... "HONOLULU – Five Hawaii Democratic representatives want to pass a law making President Barack Obama's birth records public and charge $100 to see them......"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110127/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate_1

So there!

[A Laughing Baby]

That sounds more like they were joking to me than anything, though I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if they were serious.

[Juniversal]

Lets see how some people in this thread wrap their head around this one ...

I was born in El Paso, TX yet I have a Rhode Island Birth Certificate.*head explodes* :explode

[boyntonstu]

*head explodes* :explode

If you had to be born in RI to hold an office there, would your BC be sufficient proof?

Would you swear under oath under penalty of perjury that you were born in RI?

How could you prove that you were born in TX?

[tsig]

If you had to be born in RI to hold an office there, would your BC be sufficient proof?

Would you swear under oath under penalty of perjury that you were born in RI?

How could you prove that you were born in TX?

Why would anyone want to?:)

[Juniversal]

If you had to be born in RI to hold an office there, would your BC be sufficient proof?

Would you swear under oath under penalty of perjury that you were born in RI?

How could you prove that you were born in TX?I imagine you're asking Alareth? ;) But regardless I imagine the birth certificate would establish your place of birth regardless of the state it was issued in and that alone would be enough proof.

[Accidental Martyr]

Wow, way to give away the punchline to my rhetorical question >:[

Sorry. :(

[boyntonstu]

But regardless I imagine the birth certificate would establish your place of birth regardless of the state it was issued in and that alone would be enough proof.


Huh?
__________________

[Alan]

Am I right to understand that this Rhode Island-issued birth certificate gives El Paso as the birthplace? :)

[boyntonstu]

Am I right to understand that this Rhode Island-issued birth certificate gives El Paso as the birthplace? :)

VUD? Vus u dere?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

.... "HONOLULU – Five Hawaii Democratic representatives want to pass a law making President Barack Obama's birth records public and charge $100 to see them......"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110127/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate_1

So there!


Cashing in on the stupidity of others is not a validation of their position...