Views on George Galloway.

[Zeuzzz]

Now this guys a controversial figure if I ever saw one. He has a razor sharp tongue, his oratory skills are near unrivalled, he holds very strong political opinions, he has been taken to court numerous times based on allegations by newspapers that turned out to be rubbish (they had to pay him compensation), he was accused by the senate of making money from the oil for food programme in Iraq, and was found innocent. He's been banned from canada as the Jewish Defence League decided he was a terrorist as he lead an aid convoy paid for by british citizens to the people in Gaza, giving them medicine, nappies, food, etc.

He's been around in british polotics a long time. There are so many accusations about him its unreal. But, when it comes down to it, I find that they are all either out of context quotes, or fabrications of some sort to smear him. Every time he puts his side of the story across he seems to have it pretty much bang on. He's very antiwar, and hates the US and UK for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. He is also a proponent of Palestine, and is not very fond at all of Zionism or Israeli military actions in Gaza.

My parents read Murdochs "The Times" newspaper here in the UK, and they say he's an 'evil man'. But could not say why, oddly. :rolleyes: Maybe something to do with him ripping into Sky News' biased coverage of the Israel - Palestine conflict live on TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw). He cant be Murdochs favorite person, for sure.

I personally think he's brilliant. One of the best poloticians in the UK at the moment. Never really heard him say anything I disagree with after you sift through the propeganda about him. Sure many people will disagree.

Opinions?

Heres some videos of him;

Canada ban: Galloway faces his accusers a Jewish Defence League (JDL) "Terrorist" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAm7rfHKSyY

George Galloway VS the Mainstream Media + US http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvdKyGjNSg0

George Galloway vs. U.S Senate (5/17/05) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk

For his full testimony at the senate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyyGoPerzWc

[Pardalis]

He's a ****.

(funny, the word "prick" is allowed, but not the c word...:confused:)

ETA: visual proof:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/perdalis/F_200601_january25ed_78076a.jpg

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/888649e4c6398b7a6.jpg

I rest my case.

[Zeuzzz]

Give a reason. Go on. I dare you.

[Zeuzzz]

http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/saddam-rumsfeld.jpg

Good old donald met sadam too. :)

George met sadam to speak about humanitarian issues and polotics. Donald rumsfeld and the US and UK went there to sell him guns and weapons of mass destruction. As he said in his testimony to the senate:

Transcript of his testimony: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article523583.ece
"As a matter of fact, I have met Saddam Hussein exactly the same number of times as Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is Donald Rumsfeld met him to sell him guns and to give him maps the better to target those guns. I met him to try and bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war, and on the second of the two occasions, I met him to try and persuade him to let Dr Hans Blix and the United Nations weapons inspectors back into the country - a rather better use of two meetings with Saddam Hussein than your own Secretary of State for Defence made of his.

"I was an opponent of Saddam Hussein when British and Americans governments and businessmen were selling him guns and gas. I used to demonstrate outside the Iraqi embassy when British and American officials were going in and doing commerce.

"You will see from the official parliamentary record, Hansard, from the 15th March 1990 onwards, voluminous evidence that I have a rather better record of opposition to Saddam Hussein than you do and than any other member of the British or American governments do.


Try harder.

[Pardalis]

tu quoque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque)

BTW, Rumsfeld is a dick too.

[Architect]

We get him in the press all the time. His problem, basically, is that he's up his own erse. And he's not so old Labour as to give up the villa in the sun or anything.....

[NWO Sentryman]

FDR & Stalin

http://www.earthstation1.com/WWIIPics/TehranConference431129-FDR&StalinConfer.jpg

Che & Mao

http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Che-mao.jpg/180px-Che-mao.jpg

Chirac & Saddam

http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/world/gallery/2007/may/15/france/PD3090948@Baghdad,-December-197-3451.jpg

[Pardalis]

How much money did Galloway receive from the Iraqi mafia regime, while the sanctions were in place?

"Humanitarian issues" are very lucrative business I hear.

[Zeuzzz]

How much money did Galloway receive from the Iraqi mafia regime, while the sanctions were in place?


Not a penny. And he said so under oath. They would have found out if he had. It was all fabricated. You wont be able to prove it if the US govenment and intelligence cant my friend. :)

[Ziggurat]

I personally think he's brilliant.

He's moderately clever, but his particular brand of ass-hattery requires no great intelligence, and he displays none. He's reliably anti-west, and pro-any enemy of the west. That's his only standard.

Never really heard him say anything I disagree with

Then you don't think Hamas is a terrorist organization? You think that the assassination of the Prime Minister of the UK is justifiable? Have you really paid any attention to what this moral cretin actually says, or do you just like the knee-jerk leftist agitprop you've occasionally tuned in to?

[Zeuzzz]

"Humanitarian issues" are very lucrative business I hear.


With the recent scandals in the UK of MP's expenses I can absolutely guarantee that they will have checked his income extensively. A lot of people will want to have shown him to have made money illegally like half of the british MPs had.

They found absolutely nothing.

[NWO Sentryman]

Galloway also compared Saddam to Stalin positively and is a Joke at the end of the day.

And the Picture does not explain all the Soviet and Chinese Hardware Saddam got.

[Zeuzzz]

Then you don't think Hamas is a terrorist organization?


No, they're the elected govenment, who have to defend themselves from Israeli agression frequently. I dont like Hamas, but I dont think they are terrorists any more than Israel is a terrorist state (if we are going by civilian deaths especially)

You think that the assassination of the Prime Minister of the UK is justifiable?


Wheres he said this? I think this is out of context...

Have you really paid any attention to what this moral cretin actually says


Yes, extensively. And he seems to make a lot more sense than most poloticians.

[WildCat]

George met sadam to speak about humanitarian issues and polotics. Donald rumsfeld and the US and UK went there to sell him guns and weapons of mass destruction.
This is not true.

The US sold Iraq no WMDs, nor even components of them.

If you were capable of a little research you'd find that the great bulk of chemical weapons precursors were supplied to him by Switzerland and Singapore and Italy, with the help of a Dutch businessman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_van_Anraat).

[NWO Sentryman]

No, they're the elected govenment, who have to defend themselves from Israeli agression frequently. I dont like Hamas, but I dont think they are terrorists any more than Israel is a terrorist state (if we are going by civilian deaths especially)

Israel does NOT itentionally target civilians.

Hitler was elected in 1933. Does that mean that he had to defend Germany from that Sole Polish Soldier.

"Israeli Aggression" - Explain all the missiles fired by Hamas.

Hamas are legally proscribed as terrorists by the EU and the US.

[Ziggurat]

No, they're the elected govenment

You say that as if those statements are mutually exclusive, but they are not.

who have to defend themselves from Israeli agression frequently.

Edited for rule 12 Lobbing missiles at Israeli schools and blowing up buses doesn't defend anyone.

Wheres he said this? I think this is out of context...

GQ interview. Not out of context at all. But as I suspected, you don't actually know the sort of stuff Galloway says, and what you do know of you accept rather uncritically Edited for rule 12

[Zeuzzz]

Israel does NOT itentionally target civilians.


I know. But they do a pretty damn crap job of that dont they?!

They have a large army and miliary power. Hamas are like toy soldiers firing out of date and inaccurate weapons.

[WildCat]

Here's a montage of Galloway asshattery, where he makes it quite clear he is pro-Hamas:

eUIk2h6OEx0

[Ziggurat]

The US sold Iraq no WMDs, nor even components of them.

Technically that may not be true. We might have sold him chlorine, for example, and chlorine is a component of mustard gas. Of course, it's also rather useful in treating water to prevent diseases such as cholera.

[Zeuzzz]

Clue for the clueless: lobbing missiles at Israeli schools and blowing up buses doesn't defend anyone.


Likewise for Israel hitting schools in palestine. And every point you say like this I can likely counter with a similar Israeli action. Israel can at least target their weapons very accurately with their technology, yet still seem to be utterly crap at hitting their targets.

[NWO Sentryman]

Likewise for Israel hitting schools in palestine. And every point you say like this I can likely counter with a similar Israeli action. Israel can at least target their weapons very accurately with their technology, yet still seem to be utterly crap at hitting their targets.

Hamas knowingly hidden in the schools and in civilian areas which BTW is Perfidy.

[Ziggurat]

Likewise for Israel hitting schools in palestine. And every point you say like this I can likely counter with a similar Israeli action.

There's a term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) for this fallacy. Really, if thread-bare anti-Israel rhetoric is the only thing you've got with which to defend the reprehensible Galloway, well, you've got nothing.

[geni]

Galloway is to the left of even the more conventional hard left groups (there is a reasonable case to be made that the average highy militant trade union is somewhere to the right of Galloway).

He's prepared to make alliances with some interesting islamic groups. He's never met an anti-american he didn't like. His financial dealings with saddam are ah interesting although probably legal and not as bad as some have claimed.

On the other hand he's a pretty good speaker which can be useful when you want the people he's up against to look like idiots.

[JihadJane]

He's a breath of fresh air in a cesspit.

[Praktik]

I dunno why politics has to be uniform.

As a fly in the ointment I like Galloway and we're all the better for it. And if you really REALLY dislike him who is better to love to hate?

[Zeuzzz]

There's a term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) for this fallacy. Really, if thread-bare anti-Israel rhetoric is the only thing you've got with which to defend the reprehensible Galloway, well, you've got nothing.


I dont see any real valid reasons given so far as to why he's so bad. Many british poloticians think that Hamas are not a terrorist state but are the elected govenment, Tony Benn, Nigel Farage, etc, its a point of view. Not a popular one, but one that many people hold none-the-less.

Ziggurat: Do you live in Israel? Because I have gotten the impression from my breif encounters with this polotics section that you are an somewhat ardent Israeli proponent. Are you of the Zionist persuasion?

[WildCat]

Here's Galloway's heros in action:

DnuDg2316dk

And Galloway is your hero Zeuzzz?

[Pardalis]

A few good words from Galloway about Syria, of all countries:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1524700/posts

wow.

[NWO Sentryman]

Johann Hari wrote an article destroying Galloway.

And Christopher Hitchens destroyed him in a debate.

As well as Galloway appearing on the Alex Jones Show.

And Pardalis, Freerepublic descended into Stormfront with that article on Malia Obama.

[WildCat]

A few good words from Galloway about Syria, of all countries:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1524700/posts

wow.
And Syria killed more Palestinians in one day (February 2, 1982) than Israel has in the last 20 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre

But it's OK, because the Syrians aren't Jews.

[Zeuzzz]

Here's Galloway's heros in action:

DnuDg2316dk

And Galloway is your hero Zeuzzz?


That video is showing some angry people of different politicial persuasions being very violent. Galloway would hate the people in that video that are being violent. As he opposes all war, hate and violence.

[Pardalis]

Ziggurat: Do you live in Israel? Because I have gotten the impression from my breif encounters with this polotics section that you are an somewhat ardent Israeli proponent. Are you of the Zionist persuasion?

Do you live in Iran?

What a pathetic post.

[WildCat]

That video is showing some angry people of different politicial persuasions being very violent. Galloway would hate the people in that video that are being violent. As he opposes all war, hate and violence.
Absolute nonsense. He supports an internationally recognized terrorist group which targets civilians and tortures domestic opponents to death. Which calls for genocide in their official charter.

He makes speeches praising them, he stands by them, he gives them money.

And you think he's a great man?

[Zeuzzz]

But it's OK, because the Syrians aren't Jews.


So your saying that he's anti-semitic now?! Thats a very strong accusation to make. Find one piece of evidence of him being anti-semitic and I'll eat my foot. Anti Zionism is NOT anti Jewish.

This was infact court case number four that he won, the news of the world tried to trick him into making anti-semitic statements covertly. He found them out, sued them, and won the court case. They could provide no evidence he was anti-semitic.

[NWO Sentryman]

By your logic, David Duke Isn't Anti-semitic, only "Anti-Zionist"

[Ziggurat]

I dont see any real valid reasons given so far as to why he's so bad.

Indeed, you do not see. None so blind.

Ziggurat: Do you live in Israel? Because I have gotten the impression from my breif encounters with this polotics section that you are an somewhat ardent Israeli proponent. Are you of the Zionist persuasion?

You can find out what country I live in easily enough if you actually care (I've made it public in the past), but what difference does it make? And what on earth do you mean by "Zionist persuasion"? Come now, don't be coy: what exactly do you mean by that question?

[geni]

Here's Galloway's heros in action:

DnuDg2316dk

Hey "punishment beatings" were popular in Northern Irland (still are to an extent). I understand that a number of people with links to the IRA are now fairly respected. Come on hamas have thrown people off roofs and thats the best video you can find (with a slight odd cut as well)? Try liveleak.

[WildCat]

More of Galloway's heros in action (http://www.theage.com.au/world/hamas-torture-brings-gaza-reign-of-fear-20090313-8xzs.html):

DALAL al-Shoubaki remembers the day Hamas sent its dreaded Internal Security Service to arrest her husband Hamza.

"It was July 25 last year. They came early in the day to our home and they took Hamza away without saying why," Mrs Shoubaki told The Age this week.

Three weeks ago, the tortured body of the father of 13 was found dumped at Gaza's Shifa Hospital, with two gunshot wounds to the head.
From the types of twigs and leaves found on his clothes, Mr Shoubaki's family believe he was executed in a citrus grove on the outskirts of Gaza City.

Mr Shoubaki had been accused of collaborating with the Government of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, whose Fatah faction holds power in the West Bank. Mr Shoubaki was a vocal supporter of Fatah, and was in almost daily phone contact with his brother, a senior officer in the Government.

His fate is a chilling example of the terror inflicted on dissenters who have lived under the Hamas regime in Gaza since June 2007.
These are the heros of your hero Zeuzzz.

This is what they do. This is their policy. The people who do this aren't rogue elements, they will not be prosecuted for their crimes or even reprimanded by their boss. They likely will get nothing but praise and commendations from their superiors for a job well done.

And they are praised by George Galloway. And you love Galloway for this?

[Pardalis]

The "Zionist persuasion"... damn, too bad there aren't any stundie nominations for the politics subforum.

[Zeuzzz]

Absolute nonsense. He supports an internationally recognized terrorist group which targets civilians and tortures domestic opponents to death. Which calls for genocide in their official charter.


He does not support Hamas in this sense, infact he has made it clear that he does not support many of Hamas' ideas and policies. He does support Hamas however when it comes to them having a right to defend themselves, for them to have a go at running as the elected govenment without interference from Israel, and he only really speaks about Hamas when there are unjust things happening in palestine. He's far from an ardent Hamas supporter: Its just that when Israel and Hamas are at war or fighting he will side with Hamas, for humanitarian reasons, and countless other historical reasons.

He makes speeches praising them, he stands by them, he gives them money.


He gives AID as donated by the british people to people devastated by war. Not just money.

And you think he's a great man?


Yep.

[NWO Sentryman]

I also heard of Kneecappings in NI (I'm only 17, so i don't remember any stories.)

[Cleon]

:popcorn1

[WildCat]

Hey "punishment beatings" were popular in Northern Irland (still are to an extent).
Difference is the N. Ireland government will prosecute those they catch. Hamas gives them rewards.

Come on hamas have thrown people off roofs and thats the best video you can find (with a slight odd cut as well)? Try liveleak.
Just trying to keep the really graphic stuff off this forum geni.

Zeuzzz, are you understanding what Hamas is all about yet? And the people like George Galloway who praise them?

[Zeuzzz]

Come now, don't be coy: what exactly do you mean by that question?

Are you a Zionist?

If not, do you share similar ideologies? Because thats the impression I have gotten so far. I may be mistaken, I dont frequent this section of the forum much.

[Arcade22]

I am on the anti-imperialist left." The Stalinist left? "I wouldn't define it that way because of the pejoratives loaded around it; that would be making a rod for your own back. If you are asking did I support the Soviet Union, yes I did. Yes, I did support the Soviet Union, and I think the disappearance of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe of my life. If there was a Soviet Union today, we would not be having this conversation about plunging into a new war in the Middle East, and the US would not be rampaging around the globe.


Yeah, what a wonderful guy. :rolleyes:

[NWO Sentryman]

Well, on the AH Forums, IAN would be giving guys like Zeuzzz:

http://hzero.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/banhammer2.jpg

[WildCat]

He does not support Hamas in this sense, infact he has made it clear that he does not support many of Hamas' ideas and policies.
Absolute nonsense. This is part and parcel of Hamas, it is what they do.

[Godwin warning]

It's like saying you admire Hitler and think he is a great man because he gave Germany a great highway system. Oh, that other stuff you don't approve of but it's not important.

[Zeuzzz]

Do you live in Iran?

What a pathetic post.


Peoples nationality, unfortunately, I have found does make a major difference in discussions like this. Patriotism is a very influencial thought system responsible for the deaths of millions, probably just behind religous thought systems. I hate patriotism, personally. It was a round world last time I checked.

[Pardalis]

BTW, what was the nature of his "humanitarian" work with non other than Uday Hussein?

[Cleon]

Well, on the AH Forums, IAN would be giving guys like Zeuzzz:


Yes, but here we respect things like "free expression," even unpopular opinions you may not like.

Sucks, don't it?

[Ziggurat]

Are you a Zionist?

I've seen that word used in too many different ways to know what you mean by it. I do not describe myself as such. And why do you care? What does it matter? My statements stand or fall on their own, who I am is of no consequence.

[Arcade22]

Peoples nationality, unfortunately, I have found does make a major difference in discussions like this. Patriotism is a very influencial thought system responsible for the deaths of millions, probably just behind religous thought systems. I hate patriotism, personally. It was a round world last time I checked.

Yes, you hate your country. Is this why you like George Galloway? He seems to share your contempt for your country (i assume your British).

[Zeuzzz]

Yeah, what a wonderful guy. :rolleyes:


He's well known for his critisism of capitalism. Look at where capitalism has gotten our economy today :eye-poppi And see how much influence the major corporations have over polotics. And although he is by no means an all out marxist or communist, he does often tend towards these type of political systems. But not the extreme ones, he is a big fan of letting the people decide and voting in govenments. This is where his political views become somewhat complex, as he prefers neither pure capitalism nor communism, but ideally an mixture of both. A political system where the rich - poor gap does not keep getting bigger and bigger is a point he continually makes.

[Zeuzzz]

Yes, you hate your country. Is this why you like George Galloway? He seems to share your contempt for your country (i assume your British).


Hate my country? I dont hate my country any more than I hate any part of the world. Its a place on Earth.

By "my country" do you mean the arbitrary location on the planet where my parents had sex and I was born?

[Ziggurat]

BTW, what was the nature of his "humanitarian" work with non other than Uday Hussein?

Raping retarded nuns. Oh, wait, that was Qusay:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-23-2003/saddam-s-sons-dead

[Zeuzzz]

Yes, you hate your country. Is this why you like George Galloway?


I am british. And George does not hold contempt for his country; quite the opposite. He loves the people of the UK; its the UK poloticians and companies abusing their power that he dislikes. As do most of the british population.

He is a four times elected member of parliment. The british people voted for him. And continue to do so.

[Pardalis]

it's "politicians", BTW.

[Ziggurat]

He's well known for his critisism of capitalism. Look at where capitalism has gotten our economy today :eye-poppi And see how much influence the major corporations have over polotics. And although he is by no means an all out marxist or communist, he does often tend towards these type of political systems. But not the extreme ones

************. He's an admirer of and appologist for all forms of totalitarianism, provided that they're anti-west. Listen to him deny the Tiananmen Square massacre:
tkzSs88iuEU

he is a big fan of letting the people decide and voting in govenments.

************. His pretensions towards democracy only arise in opposition to pro-western authoritarians or in support of anti-western opposition parties. He has no real commitment to democracy at all.

[WildCat]

He's well known for his critisism of capitalism. Look at where capitalism has gotten our economy today :eye-poppi And see how much influence the major corporations have over polotics. And although he is by no means an all out marxist or communist, he does often tend towards these type of political systems. But not the extreme ones, he is a big fan of letting the people decide and voting in govenments. This is where his political views become somewhat complex, as he prefers neither pure capitalism nor communism, but ideally an mixture of both. A political system where the rich - poor gap does not keep getting bigger and bigger is a point he continually makes.
Actually he seems to prefer theocracies and thugocracies.

[WildCat]

it's "politicians", BTW.
Unless they're playing polo of course. :p

[Pardalis]

Unless they're playing polo of course. :p

Those silly Brits and their fancy sports.

[Brainster]

If Galloway lives for another 1000 years, men will still say this was his finest hour:

ButQKpZ3uzg

[Zeuzzz]

it's "politicians", BTW.


I'm drunk so lets not be picky about spelling in this thread :p Thats why I fancied an argument here in the first place so started this thread. Its fun debating such an emotive topic.

[Ziggurat]

I'm drunk

You don't need to be sober to recognize Galloway for the horse's arse that he is.

[Pardalis]

If Galloway lives for another 1000 years, men will still say this was his finest hour:

ButQKpZ3uzg

The embedded video is disabled, so I watch another related one, and in this one he clearly associates the words "Jewish" and "Zionist".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anq7LjMVQwo&feature=related

at 3:58

A Freudian slip?

[Zeuzzz]

************. He's an admirer of and appologist for all forms of totalitarianism, provided that they're anti-west. Listen to him deny the Tiananmen Square massacre:
tkzSs88iuEU


I think that this is slightly out of context. The point he is trying to make is that the Tiananmen Square incident has been used continually and repeatedly to tarnish the whole of China in the West. Sure, it was a dreadful mistake that the chinese authorities regretted. The chinese could equally look at things that have gone wrong in the west and tarnish our image. The whole thing was sensationalized by the western media, there is no question about that. That is why he says this.

************. His pretensions towards democracy only arise in opposition to pro-western authoritarians or in support of anti-western opposition parties. He has no real commitment to democracy at all.


Apart from getting elected four times as an MP by the british people in public votes :rolleyes: He's a man for the people.

[Arcade22]

I am british. And George does not hold contempt for his country; quite the opposite. He loves the people of the UK; its the UK poloticians and companies abusing their power that he dislikes. As do most of the british population.

He is a four times elected member of parliment. The british people voted for him. And continue to do so.

He stated that the fall of the Soviet Union was the "biggest catastrophe of my life", the Soviet Union that was the greatest threat to Britain under the Cold War is gone and he feels bad?

Yeah, what a guy, i am sure he loves the British people. :rolleyes:

Another quote from the guy:

Not at all; not at all... as is obvious now; now they admit that. He was hated by political opponents as he suppressed all opposition political forces, but he wasn't hated by the ordinary Iraqi - no, not at all.

[mortimer]

deleted

[Rolfe]

I don't get it. Three pages, and the words "Big Brother", "Rula Lenska" and "pink leotard" have yet to mentioned.

lJ5vJ4dXpR8

Rolfe.

[funk de fino]

As a fellow Scot, I can say he is a bawbag. Nasty arrogant asshat.

His antics on Big Brother were disgusting. Two faced, chidish and underhanded.

[WildCat]

I think that this is slightly out of context. The point he is trying to make is that the Tiananmen Square incident has been used continually and repeatedly to tarnish the whole of China in the West. Sure, it was a dreadful mistake that the chinese authorities regretted.
Really? Can you link to the Chinese apology for killing hundreds of peaceful demonstrators? Or even acknowledging it happened?

[WildCat]

I don't get it. Three pages, and the words "Big Brother", "Rula Lenska" and "pink leotard" have yet to mentioned.

lJ5vJ4dXpR8

Rolfe.
Post 62.

[Zeuzzz]

He stated that the fall of the Soviet Union was the "biggest catastrophe of my life", the Soviet Union that was the greatest threat to Britain under the Cold War is gone and he feels bad?



Some people would argue that old Mr Reagan was just as big threat in the cold war than the soviet union was. Again, theres two sides to every story, and history is written by the winners.

What distinguished the new cycle of conflict was the dynamic personality of President Ronald W. Reagan, an inveterate cold warrior who labeled the Soviet Union an "evil empire." A former Hollywood actor and two-term California governor, Reagan declared that the country had grown weak but soon would once again "stand tall" in world affairs. The new president embarked on an enormous campaign of militarization reminiscent of similar spurts following NSC 68 (1950) and in the wake of the "missile gap" controversy in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

U.S.–Soviet relations deteriorated sharply in Reagan's first term. Diplomacy virtually ceased. In March 1983 Reagan stunned the Soviets, and threatened to destabilize the nuclear arms race, by announcing his support for a space-based defensive shield. The president glibly declared that nuclear weapons could be rendered "impotent and obsolete" by developing a perfect defense against incoming ballistic missiles. The program, known as the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), was both costly and a violation of the 1972 treaty limiting defensive systems. The Kremlin feared, however, that the initiative would force the Soviets, already suffering from a badly flagging economy, into a costly new arena of superpower competition. The Kremlin bitterly criticized SDI, launched an offensive missile buildup of its own, and accused the United States of enhancing the threat of another world war.

[Rolfe]

Post 62.


Ah. I got "you can't see this where you are because of copyright issues" when I clicked that one.

Rolfe.

[Ziggurat]

I think that this is slightly out of context. The point he is trying to make is that the Tiananmen Square incident has been used continually and repeatedly to tarnish the whole of China in the West.

************. First off, regardless of the point he's making, he's lying. Secondly, your excuse for why he would lie is simply laughable. The massacred pro-democracy protesters were Chinese, in case you didn't notice, so pointing out the massacre does nothing to "tarnish the whole of China". What it does is tarnish the communist government which ordered the massacre. And Galloway, rather predictably, jumps to its defense. As do you:

Sure, it was a dreadful mistake that the chinese authorities regretted.

************ again. There's absolutely NO sign the authorities regret it. And why would they? It worked. But it's amusing how you don't just swallow Galloway's lies, you've decided to forge some of your own as well.

[Zeuzzz]

I don't get it. Three pages, and the words "Big Brother", "Rula Lenska" and "pink leotard" have yet to mentioned.

lJ5vJ4dXpR8

Rolfe.


LOL, I remember that :D What an idiot for going on that show. Makes me cringe watching that, but lets remember that this was for a task in big brother that he had to do, he didn't just suddenly start doing this!

[Arcade22]

Some people would argue that old Mr Reagan was just as big threat in the cold war than the soviet union was.

Reagan was a threat to the UK?

[scissorhands]

Apart from getting elected four times as an MP by the british people in public votes

And most of those victories were due to defending rock solid Labour seats where all he had to do was be the Labour candidate to ensure a good result.
Since he was rightly kicked out of that party and joined "respect" he has been very careful in targetting a constituency with a high level of Muslim voters and a very high percentage of anti semites.
He can hardly lose in Bethnal Green and Bow , he could deny the holocaust and his approval ratings would double there.
Hes scum, but you cant say he isnt a smart operator.

[Zeuzzz]

************ again. There's absolutely NO sign the authorities regret it. And why would they? It worked. But it's amusing how you don't just swallow Galloway's lies, you've decided to forge some of your own as well.


Okay I'll take a step back from this for a second. I didn't really research it before I wrote that. I will look into his views on this in more detail in a bit to see exactly what he is saying.

So far I think that the point he is making is that although there were definately some deaths that occured there, the death toll has been exagerated by western reports trying to tarnish communist china. His question was where are the images of the alleged hundreds of dead? Why given the worlds media were there is there not more evidence? Sure, we've all seen the footage of the tank and the guy, and a couple of people getting shot at when troops opened fire; but is there actually any hard pictorial/video evidence to back up the death toll claims frequently made in the media?

I dont know. There might be. And he might be wrong about this. Will get googling.

[Zeuzzz]

Reagan was a threat to the UK?


More than that, the entire word! Thats generally the nature of Mutual assured destruction (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction). He attacks the soviets, they would attack the US, and their allies, and a chain reaction would ensue. Same for the soviets. They were just as bad as each other.

[Zeuzzz]

Since he was rightly kicked out of that party


:dl:

The reasons for kicking him out were absolutely hilarious, considering the recent MP expenses scandal. Have you seen the speech he made when he was kicked out? As he said in his brilliantly orated speech:

Querying the claim that he should have checked the exact origins of all donations made to his appeal, Galloway noted, “Being lectured by the current House of Commons on the funding of political campaigns is like being accused of having bad taste by Donald Trump or being accused of slouching by the hunchback of Notre Dame. This House stands in utter ill repute on the question of the funding of political campaigns.”


Galloway thrown out of Parliament Part 1 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xetq3b7fheY

And how utterly correct he turned out to be a few years later :D

[Zeuzzz]

George Galloway thrown out of Parliament

t-TAypia32E

[Ziggurat]

Okay I'll take a step back from this for a second. I didn't really research it before I wrote that. I will look into his views on this in more detail in a bit to see exactly what he is saying.

So far I think that the point he is making is that although there were definately some deaths that occured there, the death toll has been exagerated by western reports trying to tarnish communist china. His question was where are the images of the alleged hundreds of dead?

No, Zeuzzz. Let me quote his words: "It is a remarkable thing that something that we've been told for twenty years was a massacre, that not a single photograph of a single dead person has been adduced."

So that's not a question, it's a claim, and it's not about how many dead people there were, it's about whether there were any at all. And his claim is a transparent lie.

Your statement that you "didn't really research it before I wrote that" is an understatement, to put it charitably.

Why given the worlds media were there is there not more evidence?

That's not his claim at all. His claim is that there's no evidence, when that's just not the case.

I dont know. There might be. And he might be wrong about this. Will get googling.

He might be wrong? Damn, Zeuzzz, watch the video: the evidence that he's wrong is right there, in the video itself.

Or were you so foolish as to comment upon it without even watching it? If so, I would suggest you stop posting while drunk.

[scissorhands]

:dl:

The reasons for kicking him out were absolutely hilarious, considering the recent MP expenses scandal. Have you seen the speech he made when he was kicked out? As he said in his brilliantly orated speech:




Galloway thrown out of Parliament Part 1 of 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xetq3b7fheY

And how utterly correct he turned out to be a few years later :D

You seem confused, as that had nothing to do with his expulsion from the Labour party.
He was expelled from the Labour party for bringing it into disrepute in 2003.
Maybe you need to stop posting for a bit while you sober up.

[funk de fino]

LOL, I remember that :D What an idiot for going on that show. Makes me cringe watching that, but lets remember that this was for a task in big brother that he had to do, he didn't just suddenly start doing this!

Unfortunately he had no such excuse for his other despicable behaviour on the program.

[Zeuzzz]

So that's not a question, it's a claim, and it's not about how many dead people there were, it's about whether there were any at all. And his claim is a transparent lie.


It is a lie, as there certainly were many people that died that day. He hosts a radio show in the UK which is the most widely listened to radio station in the UK, he's on air constantly, he's bound to make the odd mistake or say something wrong. I think he meant not to dispute that some people did die, just the sensationalised reports and high death toll that (he believes) to this day have never been proven.

That's not his claim at all. His claim is that there's no evidence, when that's just not the case.


But no evidence of what is the question. I think he means no evidence for the high death toll often attributed to it, not that there were no deaths at all.

And I would watch out for videos from that youtube user, he deliberately twists galloways words and takes them out of context all the time. He instantly gives his videos five stars then locks other votes, he bans discussion about his videos apart from people who agree with him, and is just a very dishonest youtube uploader in general.

I think that his main reason for these rather ill advised comments is that far worse attrocities have been committed since this incident, yet due to the wests attempts to tarnish Chinas image (due to the threat they feel from a) their communist system and b) their growing financial strength) the story has been covered far more than it should have and exagerrated over the years.

How much TV time has been given to the tragedy of the USS Liberty incident for example? I cant remember once. I'm gonna stop posting now till tomorrow. Will enjoy continuing this then. :)

[Zeuzzz]

He was expelled from the Labour party for bringing it into disrepute in 2003.



Oh yes, Tony got rid of him after he became vice president of StWC and made some comments that didn't go down very well about the war. Guess theres no room for anti-war people that preach peace in the labour govenment, eh?

I did get this muddled with his expulsion from parliament, which was an equally obserd affair.

[scissorhands]

He hosts a radio show in the UK which is the most widely listened to radio station in the UK

Talksport is the most widely listened to radio station in the UK?
Really?

[Zeuzzz]

Talksport is the most widely listened to radio station in the UK?
Really?


Its pretty damn close, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-listened-to_radio_programs#Current_top_stations_in_the_Unit ed_Kingdom

[Ziggurat]

I think he meant not to dispute that some people did die, just the sensationalised reports and high death toll that (he believes) to this day have never been proven.

And yet, that's not what he did. Your attempts to spin his words are rather pathetic.

But no evidence of what is the question. I think he means no evidence for the high death toll often attributed to it, not that there were no deaths at all.

No. He said there's no evidence of a single dead person. And I think it's pretty clear that what he meant was not simply that the death toll was exagerated (because you don't need zero dead bodies to make that claim), but of a conspiracy to manufacture a massacre when none occurred. Hence is rather deliberate emphasis of not a single photo of even a single dead body.

How much TV time has been given to the tragedy of the USS Liberty incident for example? I cant remember once.

How sadly predictable that you drop back to attacking Israel. Keep on licking Galloway's boot.

[scissorhands]

Its pretty damn close, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-listened-to_radio_programs#Current_top_stations_in_the_Unit ed_Kingdom

Youve just debunked yourself with that link.

Carry on.

Bear in mind that your scummy hero has a tiny slot on that station,he doesnt host anything other than that..

[Zeuzzz]

How sadly predictable that you drop back to attacking Israel. Keep on licking Galloway's boot.


Its just a relevant story, as the point is that the china incident has been played again and again, yet far worse attrocities have happened. Sorry if it offends you bringing it up. And he never attacks the Israelis btw, the Israeli govenment and Zionists, maybe.

Lets use another example to keep you happy then, hows about the guinea protests, with an estimated death toll of 157? How often do we hear about that in comparison? There have been far worse, thats a rather tepid example compared to some genocides and military events that have happened since.

I say again:


I think that his main reason for these rather ill advised comments is that far worse attrocities have been committed since this incident, yet due to the wests attempts to tarnish Chinas image (due to the threat they feel from a) their communist system and b) their growing financial strength) the story has been covered far more than it should have and exagerrated over the years.

[Zeuzzz]

Youve just debunked yourself with that link.

Carry on.


Its called honesty.

What you are doing is called pedantry.

[Rolfe]

Wasn't there something about some item of ladies' underwear, round about when the "Gorgeous George" quips started?

Forgive me, but the sleazy details now escape me.

Rolfe.

[Ziggurat]

Its just a relevant story

No it isn't. It's an attempt by you to move the goalpost, because you can't defend what Galloway actually said.

[funk de fino]

He hosts a radio show in the UK which is the most widely listened to radio station in the UK, he's on air constantly, he's bound to make the odd mistake or say something wrong.

Thats a false claim.

[Rolfe]

It's complete nonsense. The Wiki list shows it not only well down the list, its listening figures are way behind the leaders.

Deeply as I admire and enjoy Radio 3, I wouldn't call it wildly popular. I note that TalkSport just pips Radio 3 by a whisker.

Rolfe.

[funk de fino]

Oh yes, Tony got rid of him after he became vice president of StWC and made some comments that didn't go down very well about the war. Guess theres no room for anti-war people that preach peace in the labour govenment, eh?

I did get this muddled with his expulsion from parliament, which was an equally obserd affair.

Preach peace? false claim again.

The charges faced by Mr Galloway were understood to be that:

he incited Arabs to fight British troops
he incited British troops to defy orders
he incited Plymouth voters to reject Labour MPs
he threatened to stand against Labour
he backed an anti-war candidate in Preston

[Zeuzzz]

Preach peace? false claim again.


That is his goal, peace. Thus his strong anti-war ideology. So not false at all.

And that list is wrong, "he incited Arabs to fight British troops" is rubbish. He said that any country getting invaded by enemy forces has a right to defend themselves, which I dont think many people can disagree with. The afghans have defended their land from foreign armies for centuries, sucessfully, and will continue to do so. Whatever the afghani people or taliban have to do with 9/11 (err, nothing!) or Al-queda and Bin Laden (err, nothing!), the reason to target the entire country after 9/11 remains as illusive as ever. The war can not be won.

[Zeuzzz]

I admit that talksport is not the most widely listened to radio station in the UK, but is infact merely one of the most widely listened to radio stations in the UK. Happy now? :rolleyes:

Considering that whether or not the radio station was popular or not was largely irrelivant to my point about him being on the air very frequently (irrespective of numbers of listeners) I think we can put all comments about that in the pedantry bin, whilst I have remained honest about my mistake, significant or not.

So whats so bad about galloway again? :D

[Ziggurat]

That is his goal, peace. Thus his strong anti-war ideology.

Galloway isn't anti-war, he's just on the other side.

[Zeuzzz]

he's just on the other side.


What, the Dark Side? :skull:

[scissorhands]

He said that any country getting invaded by enemy forces has a right to defend themselves.

Then he should have been supporting the Northern Alliance in removing all those Taliban coming from Pakistan.
Why wasnt he?

[funk de fino]

That is his goal, peace. Thus his strong anti-war ideology. So not false at all.

And that list is wrong, "he incited Arabs to fight British troops" is rubbish. He said that any country getting invaded by enemy forces has a right to defend themselves, which I dont think many people can disagree with. The afghans have defended their land from foreign armies for centuries, sucessfully, and will continue to do so. Whatever the afghani people or taliban have to do with 9/11 (err, nothing!) or Al-queda and Bin Laden (err, nothing!), the reason to target the entire country after 9/11 remains as illusive as ever. The war can not be won.

He was found guilty of the charge of incitement regardless of your lies. He incited other arabs to fight,not occupied arabs.

Who is targeting all Afghanistan?

Sober up and grow up.

[mortimer]

That is his goal, peace. Thus his strong anti-war ideology. So not false at all.

And that list is wrong, "he incited Arabs to fight British troops" is rubbish. He said that any country getting invaded by enemy forces has a right to defend themselves, which I dont think many people can disagree with. The afghans have defended their land from foreign armies for centuries, sucessfully, and will continue to do so. Whatever the afghani people or taliban have to do with 9/11 (err, nothing!) or Al-queda and Bin Laden (err, nothing!), the reason to target the entire country after 9/11 remains as illusive as ever. The war can not be won.
Ah, a Troofer! Why am I not surprised?

I'm sure, given your thoughts on Israel and the Jews, you feel right at home amongst them (Troofers, that is)!

[funk de fino]

Galloway- Well, let me say first of all that Iraq is fighting for all the Arabs. Why don't Arabs do something for the Iraqis?

[Zeuzzz]

Then he should have been supporting the Northern Alliance in removing all those Taliban coming from Pakistan.
Why wasnt he?


He does not like the Taliban. He just does not want to murder them all, and thinks that starting the war with them was a dreadful mistake. He would argue that the Taliban would not be going into pakistan at all if Afghanistan had not been invaded. But he does not support the taliban, and he does not believe that all those resisting foreign occupation of afghanistan are members of the Taliban. The word Taliban merely means students, and is a historic name coming from the period in which the student movement banged all the heads of the competing warlords that were murdering each other and destroying the country together and formed a unified govenment in Kabul. They did some terrible things. But one things for sure, they are not going to be defeated militarily. They will not give up their struggle against a foreign occupation. The dogs in the street definately know that, more importantly so do the leaders of the countries whos young men are dying there.

http://birminghamrespect.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/salma-yaqoob-and-george-galloway-to-speak-at-pakistan-public-meeting/
Respect leader and Birmingham Stop the War Coalition chair Salma Yaqoob will be speaking alongside George Galloway MP at a meeting on the crisis in Pakistan this weekend.

The public event, which will be taking place at the Bordesley Centre in Birmingham’s Sparkbrook area, will explore the current deepening crisis in Pakistan.

Over the last few months a million people had been displaced by the fighting in the province of Swat and this week saw a massive car bomb in Lahore kill 23 people.

“US drone strikes on Pakistani territory and Pakistan’s support for the Western occupation of Afghanistan continues to severely destabilise the country. Stability in the Pakistan is intimately tied up with a resolution to the war in Afghanistan where the conflict is increasingly deadlocked, the death toll of British soldiers continues to rise and Taliban are growing in strength.

“This meeting will outline what positive measures our government can pursue to help bring peace to the region. It is free entry and everybody is welcome to attend”.

[Ziggurat]

What, the Dark Side? :skull:

Any side that opposes the west. That's all one needs to know in order to figure out which side Galloway will choose.

[Zeuzzz]

Ah, a Troofer! Why am I not surprised?

I'm sure, given your thoughts on Israel and the Jews, you feel right at home amongst them (Troofers, that is)!


Way to go! Really achieved a lot this post. Stereotype me into a group of 'people' and that resolves everything.

I am jewish you fool. Both my parents are jewish, and I (although am not an overtly religous person) am technically a jew.

Please learn the difference between Israel (a country) and Jews (an entire religion).

[scissorhands]

He would argue that the Taliban would not be going into palestine at all if Afghanistan had not been invaded.

:confused:

OK, you definately need to just stop drinking now.
Even Gorgeous George knows when he has had too many.

[Zeuzzz]

:confused:

OK, you definately need to just stop drinking now.
Even Gorgeous George knows when he has had too many.


I'm not drinking now :p I only had a couple earlier.

And it does make sense.

Why do you think the Taliban are progressing into pakistan? You think that its completely unrelated to pakistani support of US foreign policy? and the occupation?

[dudalb]

Except for the voters in his district, and a few other loons, Galloway is a national joke in the UK.

[scissorhands]

I'm not drinking now I only had a couple earlier.

And it does make sense.

Why do you think the Taliban are progressing into pakistan? You think that its completely unrelated to pakistani support of US foreign policy? and the occupation?




Ah,so you meant Pakistan and not Palestine?
Its hard deciphering your rants.

The taliban originated in Pakistan.

[Zeuzzz]

Ah,so you meant Pakistan and not Palestine?



Yes, obviously. Editted.

Its hard dechipering your rants.


Its a language called english, here this might help; http://www.thefreedictionary.com/

[Zeuzzz]

Except for the voters in his district, and a few other loons, Galloway is a national joke in the UK.


Reason?

Why has he never been found guilty of anything in court and won all his cases then?

And why was he elected four times?

Are you calling the british people that stupid? Rather insulting to them, dont you think?

[gtc]

I know some people who live in his constituency and they all seem to think that he doesn't do much to actually represent the area. I believe he still doesn't actually appear in the house very often but I can't locate the figures. This doesn't (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4626218.stm) seem to be a new phenomenon (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1450810/On-the-road-Galloway-has-worst-voting-record.html).

[scissorhands]

And why was he elected four times?



This has been explained to you already.
My pet donkey with a red rose shoved up its arse would have won the safe Labour seats he stood for.
Since then he relies on anti semitic feelings in his chosen constituency with the highest Muslim percentage of voters in the UK, as a "respect" candidate.

[dudalb]

And most of those victories were due to defending rock solid Labour seats where all he had to do was be the Labour candidate to ensure a good result.
Since he was rightly kicked out of that party and joined "respect" he has been very careful in targetting a constituency with a high level of Muslim voters and a very high percentage of anti semites.
He can hardly lose in Bethnal Green and Bow , he could deny the holocaust and his approval ratings would double there.
Hes scum, but you cant say he isnt a smart operator.

Was'nt Bethnel Green one of the districts that supported Moseley during the 1930's? Anti Semitism seems to be persistent there....

[Zeuzzz]

Since then he relies on anti semitic feelings in his chosen constituency


If galloway had ever said anything that was in the slightest anti-semitic I would instantly lose all respect for him. He never has. And you wont find any proof of it. PERIOD!

Anti Zionism is NOT anti Semitism. Many Jews are anti Zionist.

Its similar to the mistake people make when people say they want to get rid of zionism, or when Irans leader said he wanted to 'wipe zionism from the page of history'. This does not equate to physically annexing Israel and its people from the map, its a political statement about a political ideology. Yet the worlds press had a field day (and still do to this day).

George re-iterates this point in this TV clip on BBC question-time, to the applause of the audience:

lPB9ttKvDEA

[Darth Rotor]

That video is showing some angry people of different politicial persuasions being very violent. Galloway would hate the people in that video that are being violent. As he opposes all war, hate and violence.
When the jackass with the bat finally hit their victim in the knee, his peeps bellowed "Allah Akhbar." They appear to have been doing it to a Palestinian who disagreed with them, such as someone from Fatah. Fellow travelers in frustration with the Israelis.

Think about that.

These are Galloway's champions against the Israelis and or Zionists and or whatever.

You, sir, need to take a look within.

DR

[Darth Rotor]

Are you a Zionist?

If not, do you share similar ideologies? Because thats the impression I have gotten so far. I may be mistaken, I dont frequent this section of the forum much.
Praise the Lord

DR

[WildCat]

Whatever the afghani people or taliban have to do with 9/11 (err, nothing!) or Al-queda and Bin Laden (err, nothing!),
Wow, so you're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist also? :rolleyes:

[Zeuzzz]

These are Galloway's champions against the Israelis and or Zionists and or whatever.


No, they are mindless thugs.

Were the people in the clip members of the elected Hamas govenment? I very much doubt it....

[Darth Rotor]

No, they are mindless thugs.

Were the people in the clip members of the elected Hamas govenment? I very much doubt it....
I guess you needed to see them wearing brown shirts to get the point.

Carry on, have a few more pints.

DR

[Zeuzzz]

Wow, so you're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist also? :rolleyes:


ummm, no.

Way to go! Really achieved a lot this post. Stereotype me into a group of 'people' and that resolves everything.

I note you didn't actually address my points, so what exactly did the Taliban have to do with 9/11? Can you provide evidence that they had sufficient links with Bin Laden and supported him so much that their entire country deserved to be invaded?

[plumjam]

:confused:

OK, you definately need to just stop drinking now.
Even Gorgeous George knows when he has had too many.

Pedantic backatcha.

How much do you drink? I'm completely teetotal and always have been, and that's one of the main reasons I'm still going. My father didn't drink and his father before him, and my children after me. I'm glad 10 times a day that I don't drink. I see the effect it has on other people. I've never been tempted - I'm a man of iron will.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/jul/27/healthandwellbeing.georgegalloway

Seems like you're talking about stuff, pretending to know about that stuff, while not knowing as much about that stuff as you would like others to believe you know about that stuff.

[dudalb]

Wow, so you're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist also? :rolleyes:


Surprised?
Check the OPs posting history.He supports a lot of "unusual" ideas.

[Zeuzzz]

I guess you needed to see them wearing brown shirts to get the point.


Please elaborate. Supporters of any political party are by no means always representative of the party they support.

[Ziggurat]

Supporters of any political party are by no means always representative of the party they support.

Try looking up the Hamas charter sometime. It should give you an idea about what the party stands for.

[Zeuzzz]

Check the OPs posting history.He supports a lot of "unusual" ideas.


None of which have been proven wrong.

Apart from all the ones that have :p Which I am more than happy to admit to. I can list them if you want. But its not many :D

Its called being a skeptic. And by this you have to be skeptical of every source, and not take peoples proclamations as fact.

[WildCat]

I note you didn't actually address my points, so what exactly did the Taliban have to do with 9/11? Can you provide evidence that they had sufficient links with Bin Laden and supported him so much that their entire country deserved to be invaded?
You also in that very post said that al Qaeda and OBL had nothing to do with 9/11 either. As for the Taliban they sheltered al Qaeda and OBL, they allowed them to have terrorist training camps in Afghanistan, and they fight with them.

Please elaborate. Supporters of any political party are by no means always representative of the party they support.
Those weren't "supporters" of Hamas, they were Hamas. That is what Hamas does.

Did you read the story I linked to earlier (http://www.theage.com.au/world/hamas-torture-brings-gaza-reign-of-fear-20090313-8xzs.html)? This is how Hamas operates, consolidating political power through torture and executions. And your boy Galloway supports them materially.

[Zeuzzz]

And your boy Galloway supports them materially.


Untrue. But I didn't expect anything better from you. He just supports them over Israel if having to decide between them both. His sticking up for Hamas and people in palestine during times of war and inhumain suffering is often confused with him being some sort of fervant Hamas sycophant.

[WildCat]

Untrue.
Absolutely true. There's even a video of him handing money to Hamas.

But I didn't expect anything better from you. He just supports them over Israel if having to decide between them both. His sticking up for Hamas and people in palestine during times of war and inhumain suffering is often confused with him being some sort of fervant Hamas sycophant.
When he gives speeches where he screams "we are all Hamas" he sure as hell seems like abig supporter. When he hands Hamas money he does also.

Hamas, if it even needs to be said again, is a terrorist group which holds onto its political power through the torture and execution of its political opponents.

Surely Galloway could have found a different Palestinian group to support?

[Zeuzzz]

Absolutely true. There's even a video of him handing money to Hamas.


Oh, I really would not be surprised. Your point?

The british people donated thousands of pounds after Israels bombardment of palestine to help the people effected. George is merely one out of multi-thousands of people who gave money to palestinians after the war. Infact, it was him that handed over a lot of the money people donated to the palestinian appeal, even though the BBC refused to air the number to make donations.

When he gives speeches where he screams "we are all Hamas" he sure as hell seems like abig supporter.


He can get rather carried away during his speeches, especially when innocent people are being murdered.

Hamas, if it even needs to be said again, is a terrorist group which holds onto its political power through the torture and execution of its political opponents.


This is quite amuzing, the Israeli intelligence (Mossad) are notorious for their numerous assassinations, torture and murdering of their opponents. So I see no reason to call Hamas terrorists any more than you could call Israel a terrorist state.

Surely Galloway could have found a different Palestinian group to support?


No. He goes with what the people decide, as usual. And they clearly voted for Hamas.

[WildCat]

Oh, I really would not be surprised. Your point?
You denied it happened.

The british people donated thousands of pounds after Israels bombardment of palestine to help the people effected. George is merely one out of multi-thousands of people who gave money to palestinians after the war. Infact, it was him that handed over a lot of the money people donated to the palestinian appeal, even though the BBC refused to air the number to make donations.
It's illegal to give it to Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization. That's why he can't go to Canada.

He can get rather carried away during his speeches, especially when innocent people are being murdered.
Yeah, who doesn't praise murderous torturing thugs when they get carried away? :rolleyes:

This is quite amuzing, the Israeli intelligence (Mossad) are notorious for their numerous assassinations, torture and murdering of their opponents.
It's not an "assasination" to kill those who are at war with you. Nor is it usual to call those warring with you political opponents, you are being irrational. As for the torture, evidence?

So I see no reason to call Hamas terrorists any more than you could call Israel a terrorist state.
Israel does not target civilians to further their political goals, nor for any other reason. Hamas does. Hamas blows up civilian buses, cafes, schools, pretty much anything they can. They hide weapons in their own schools and mosques. They use human shields to try to prevent attacks on themselves. They hide behind women and children and are indoctrinating an entire generation of Gaza kids to be terrorists. They are despicable scum, as are their supporters like your boy George Galloway.

No. He goes with what the people decide, as usual. And they clearly voted for Hamas.
And now they wonder why they suffer. And with groups like Hamas, you can vote them in but you can't vote them out, can you?

[Zeuzzz]

It's illegal to give it to Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist organization. That's why he can't go to Canada.


As stated above, the rationale for calling Hamas a terrorist organisation, and Israel not one, is predicated on what seems a purely subjective foundation.

Are you honestly saying that all the people in the world including george that donated money to the people suffering in palestine are in some way terrorists? Should long serving MP Tony Benn be banned from Canada (by the racist JDL) for going on the BBC and broadcasting the Gaza appeal number to the british public?

Tony Benn to BBC "If you wont broadcast the Gaza appeal then I will myself"
E21MdXe3BOQ

Yeah, who doesn't praise murderous torturing thugs when they get carried away? :rolleyes:


You have taken his quote out of context.

It's not an "assasination" to kill those who are at war with you. Nor is it usual to call those warring with you political opponents, you are being irrational.


There was a brilliant interview the BBC condiucted on their hard-talk programme with an ex head of Mossad. Cant find the link, but there are various transcripts about. Mossads Metsada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidon) arm have assassinated and murdered well over 30 people.

Hello and welcome to Hardtalk. I'm David Jessel. My guest today worked for five years, head of the world's most fearsome and ruthless spy agencies, Israel's Mossad. During that time, Mossad planned the assassination of Hamas leaders and the humiliation of Yasser Arafat. Who better to assess the future of the Israeli Palestinian conflict in the aftermath of the Israeli elections?

But be careful when weighing the truth of what he says about peace. Mossad's motto is after all 'by way of deception, thou shalt do war.'

Efraim Halevy, Welcome to Hardtalk. Talk about Mossad being a ruthless organization...you said in a recent interview intelligence agencies spend just as much time seeking peaceful solutions as anything else.

How did the killing of a 68 year old blind man in a wheelchair , Hamas's spiritual leader, how did that fit into seeking peaceful solutions?...


Lets just list the murders they have done since 2000, as a start. From a List of Israeli assassinations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

2000s

* November 22, 2000 - Jamal Abdel Raziq, senior official of the Fatah faction Tanzim, is killed with his driver, Awni Dhuheir, when their car is fired upon by IDF troops in Gaza. The IDF troops also killed two innocent bystanders in the car in front of Abdel Raziq -- Sami Abu Laban, 29, a baker, and Na'el Al Leddawi, 22, a student -- in the attack.[6][7]
* February 3, 2001 - Massoud Ayyad, a lieutenant-colonel in Yaser Arafat's Force 17, is killed while driving in the Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza by three helicopter launched rockets.[8]
* July 31, 2001 - Jamal Mansour, a high ranking official of Hamas' West Bank political wing, is killed when his office is struck by helicopter launched missiles.[9]
* August 20, 2001 - Imad Abu Sneneh, the leader of Tanzim, is shot and killed in Hebron by an Israeli team.[10]
* January 14, 2002 - Raed al-Karmi, head of al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades assassinated in Tulkarem.
* July 22, 2002 - Salah Shahade, the leader of Hamas Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades is killed using 2,205 pound of explosive dropped by a F-16. The attack also killed his wife and 9 children.
* March 8, 2003 - Ibrahim al-Makadmeh and three of his aides were killed by helicopter-fired missiles Gaza City
* August 21, 2003 - Ismail Abu Shanab - high ranking Hamas official [11]
* March 22, 2004 - Ahmed Yassin, co-founder and leader of Hamas, and bodyguards are killed in the Gaza Strip when hit by Israeli Air Force AH-64 Apache fired Hellfire missiles.
* April 17, 2004 - Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, co-founder and leader of Hamas and successor of Ahmed Yassin as leader of Hamas after his death, is killed by helicopter-fired missiles along with his son.
* October 21, 2004 - Adnan al-Ghoul, Hamas weapons expert, and Imad Abbas were killed when an Apache helicopter fired missiles at their car.
* May 25, 2006 - Mahmoud al-Majzoub, a commander of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, was injured in a car bombing in Sidon, Lebanon and died the next day. Islamic Jihad blamed Israel, though Israel denied it.
* June 8, 2006 - Jamal Abu Samhadana was killed by an Israeli airstrike along with at least three other PRC members.[12][13]
* January 16, 2008 - Walid Obeidi, commander of Islamic Jihad's al-Quds Brigade is gunned down by Israeli commandos in the West Bank town of Qabatiya.[14]
* February 12, 2008 - Imad Mughniyah, one of Hezbollah's top commanders, was assassinated by a car bomb in Damascus, Syria. Some news reports indicated the Mossad was responsible,[15] though Israel denied carrying it out.[16].
* August 1, 2008 - Muhammad Suleiman, a Syrian General and top liaison between Syria and Hezbollah, is killed by sniper fire. Israel never takes credit for the killing but is widely suspected.[17][18]
* December 16, 2008 - Jihad Nawahda, a top Islamic Jihad commander, is ambushed and killed by undercover Israeli troops as he enters an internet cafe in the West Bank city of Jenin.[19]
* December 27, 2008 - Tawfiq Jabber, the commander of Hamas' police force in Gaza; Ismail al-Ja'abri, commander of the defense and security directorate; and Abu-Ahmad Ashur, Hamas' Gaza central district governor are all among the Hamas dead in the opening strike of Operation Cast Lead.[20]
* January 1, 2009 - Nizar Rayan, one of the top Hamas military commanders and decision makers, is assassinated in an Israeli air strike, along with his four wives and eleven of their children. He is the most senior Hamas member to be killed since 2004.
* January 3, 2009 - Abu Zakaria al-Jamal, a senior Hamas commander, is killed in an Israeli air strike.[21]
* January 15, 2009 - Said Seyam, the Hamas Interior Minister, is killed in an Israeli air strike that also claimed his brother, his son, and Hamas general security services commander Salah Abu Shrakh.[22]
* March 5, 2009 - Khaled Shalan, a senior member of Islamic Jihad, is killed in an Israeli air strike as retaliation for Palestinian rocket attacks on the Israeli city of Ashkelon.[23]
* May 28, 2009 - Abdel-Majid Uddin, a major Hamas commander in the West Bank, is killed during a raid conducted by the Israeli Special Forces unit YAMAM.[24]
* Others.[25]



Thats not a very good record. I cant see any such list for Hamas, unless you know of such?
As for the torture, evidence?


Torturing people is hardly a big step when you are so used to murdering and assassinating opponents. I cant find any sources for torture, but I bet the mossad use the same illegal techniques as most of the worlds inteligence agencies to get information.

Israel does not target civilians to further their political goals, nor for any other reason. Hamas does. Hamas blows up civilian buses, cafes, schools, pretty much anything they can. They hide weapons in their own schools and mosques. They use human shields to try to prevent attacks on themselves. They hide behind women and children and are indoctrinating an entire generation of Gaza kids to be terrorists. They are despicable scum, as are their supporters like your boy George Galloway.


Evidence? I could say the same things in reverse about Israel I am afraid for nearly all your points....

[Zeuzzz]

He's a breath of fresh air in a cesspit.


Thanks. My views entirely.

As a fly in the ointment I like Galloway and we're all the better for it.


I should have put a poll in this thread, support or despise Mr Galloway. I think that it would be quite close.

[mortimer]

Way to go! Really achieved a lot this post. Stereotype me into a group of 'people' and that resolves everything.
Please learn what 'stereotype' means.

I am jewish you fool. Both my parents are jewish, and I (although am not an overtly religous person) am technically a jew.
First, please do not call me a fool. It's a violation of your membership agreement. Second, I couldn't care less if you are a Jew or not. Jews are just as capable as any other group to be pulled in by the Troofer nonsense.

Please learn the difference between Israel (a country) and Jews (an entire religion).
I know the difference well. If I didn't, I would not have differentiated between Jews and Israel in my post.

Again, for emphasis: Troofers are idiots. Every last one of them. And it is safe to disregard any position they hold on any (even slightly) tangential subject.

[Zeuzzz]

Odd, and there was me thinking that this thread was about George Galloway.

[Undesired Walrus]

Galloway? A thoroughly unpleasent individual who seems to stick up for any David fighting against a goliath, no matter how repugnant that David is or however much that David teaches his own kids to blow themselves up.

Thank FSM Bethnal Green will no longer have him as MP next year.

[Undesired Walrus]

Was'nt Bethnel Green one of the districts that supported Moseley during the 1930's? Anti Semitism seems to be persistent there....

A borough that is 40% Bangladesh supports White Power? I don't think your logic holds up.

Just so you know, Gorgeous George has become deeply unpopular there after his Big Brother fiasco.

[Zeuzzz]

Just so you know, Gorgeous George has become deeply unpopular there after his Big Brother fiasco.


I dont think that anyone really cares that much about him going on Big Brother.

I doubt that many politicians would have the guts to go on live TV for 24 hours a day.

[Zeuzzz]

or however much that David teaches his own kids to blow themselves up.


Unravelling this methaphor would be nice for clarity, so I know exactly who you are referring to.

Now, serious question, what on earth would drive people to resort to such drastic measures as blowing themselves up?

[gtc]

Now, serious question, what on earth would drive people to resort to such drastic measures as blowing themselves up?

Ah yes, the old it must be the victim's fault that someone hates them so much argument.

[Zeuzzz]

Ah yes, the old it must be the victim's fault that someone hates them so much argument.


Yes exactly.

Are you going to answer the question or not?

[gtc]

Does your reasoning apply to the Holocaust as well?

[Zeuzzz]

I have no idea what you are talking about, please stay on topic.

Now, are you going to answer the question or not?

[Undesired Walrus]

Now, serious question, what on earth would drive people to resort to such drastic measures as blowing themselves up?

Religion.

Blacks stayed peaceful and civilised under the slash of the whip and the vision of their brothers and sisters swinging from Southern trees. They didn't resort to teach their children to be Human bombs.

The chap you support supports people who do this to their kids:
http://www.theblogofrecord.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/kalashnikov-kids.jpg

[Undesired Walrus]

Was'nt Bethnel Green one of the districts that supported Moseley during the 1930's? Anti Semitism seems to be persistent there....

One more thing, Bethnal Green elected a Jewish MP from 1997-2005, so your argument simply doesn't hold water.

[Zeuzzz]

Religion.

Blacks stayed peaceful and civilised under the slash of the whip and the vision of their brothers and sisters swinging from Southern trees. They didn't resort to teach their children to be Human bombs.

The chap you support supports people who do this to their kids:
http://www.theblogofrecord.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/kalashnikov-kids.jpg


And why do they feel the need to do this to their kids?

We're nearly there.

[funk de fino]

And why do they feel the need to do this to their kids?

We're nearly there.

We are, pretty much everyone who knows him thinks George is a dick. He hated Saddam until the USA picked a fight with him, then he was best buddies. Just like primary school again.

Hows his parliamentary attendance and voting stats going? How long does he spend in Portugal (where I met him)?

In answer to your question, because they are religious fanatics. The family are well compensated if those young people decide to blow themselves up.

[funk de fino]

I dont think that anyone really cares that much about him going on Big Brother.
I doubt that many politicians would have the guts to go on live TV for 24 hours a day.

Not even his constituents? You are sorely mistaken.

[funk de fino]

He is a hypocrite also.

Mr Galloway listed his pet hates as "drunkenness, bad manners, bigotry and ignorance".

[Zeuzzz]

We are, pretty much everyone who knows him thinks George is a dick. He hated Saddam until the USA picked a fight with him, then he was best buddies.


Patently obserd, outright fabrication.

I think you are confusing his support for the Iraqi people to have basic human rights in an illegal war with him supporting sadam. He would rather that sadam was in power with a (relatively) stable country than the war that took place and killed hundreds of thousands of people. Who wouldn't?
But he still hates Sadam to this day.

In answer to your question, because they are religious fanatics.


Very few of the them are religous fanatics, the majority want nothing to do with conflict. But yes, their religous system of thought has been warring with Israels patriotic system of thought for a long time.

I find it hard to see the difference between a suicide bomber who has been driven to the extreme to commit an awful act and a stealth bomber. They both kill innocent people. Neither has any moral highground over the other.

[dudalb]

One more thing, Bethnal Green elected a Jewish MP from 1997-2005, so your argument simply doesn't hold water.

I stand corrected.

[funk de fino]

Patently obserd, outright fabrication.

I think you are confusing his support for the Iraqi people to have basic human rights in an illegal war with him supporting sadam. He would rather that sadam was in power with a (relatively) stable country than the war that took place and killed hundreds of thousands of people. Who wouldn't?
But he still hates Sadam to this day.

Hundreds of thousands? How many were killed in the Gulf War in iraq?

How many did Saddam kill before and after the Gulf war?

How much money did George try to hide going to his "charity" was coming from iraqi admin?

Very few of the them are religous fanatics, the majority want nothing to do with conflict. But yes, their religous system of thought has been warring with Israels patriotic system of thought for a long time.

I find it hard to see the difference between a suicide bomber who has been driven to the extreme to commit an awful act and a stealth bomber. They both kill innocent people. Neither has any moral highground over the other.

Anyone who is a suicide bomber is a religious fanatic.

[funk de fino]

George praises Saddam and gives his support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzWNXEtwHUc

[funk de fino]

To give him his due, here is George putting an anti semite in her place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlwkrOw8iDs&feature=related

[Undesired Walrus]

And why do they feel the need to do this to their kids?

We're nearly there.

As I already said, Religion.

Are you saying the black population of the US had it less bad than the Palestinians?

[Undesired Walrus]

I stand corrected.

Someone has changed their mind due to evidence on the Politics forum? :eek:

You're one of a kind dudalb.

[Zeuzzz]

George Galloway speaks to a religious fundamentalist
DCJuVpw-nHs

Galloway and caller debate David Icke
wEQMl2DlxbU

:D

Listening to george outwit every caller that calls in is a most entertaining spectacle.

[Zeuzzz]

Hundreds of thousands? How many were killed in the Gulf War in iraq?

How many did Saddam kill before and after the Gulf war?

How much money did George try to hide going to his "charity" was coming from iraqi admin?


So considering this is not answering the question of whether George supports or supported sadam hussein, I presume you conceed he does not?

Anyone who is a suicide bomber is a religious fanatic.


And anyone who is a stealth bomber is a patriotic fanatic. Theres no moral difference.

[Zeuzzz]

I'm still struggling for any valid reasons why Galloways such a bad guy.... :)

[WildCat]

I'm still struggling for any valid reasons why Galloways such a bad guy.... :)
Actually you're just redefining the meaning of "valid".

[Arcade22]

I'm still struggling for any valid reasons why Galloways such a bad guy.... :)

Have you received your Mao-glasses? (http://www.levandehistoria.se/polpot)

(Put on subtitles.)

[Zeuzzz]

hmm.

Nope.

Nothing of substance.

[Arcade22]

hmm.

Nope.

Nothing of substance.

If you could look at him without your ideologically-tinted glasses perhaps you actually see something bad about him...

[Ziggurat]

So considering this is not answering the question of whether George supports or supported sadam hussein, I presume you conceed he does not?

Galloway makes a show of the fact that he didn't support Saddam when Saddam's interests were aligned with the west. But he did support Saddam when Saddam was at odds with the west. The only constancy in any of Galloway's foreign policy is an unremitting hostility towards the west.

[Zeuzzz]

If you could look at him without your ideologically-tinted glasses perhaps you actually see something bad about him...


Maybe if you were going to a useful addition to this discussion you could actually post something of substance?

[Zeuzzz]

But he did support Saddam when Saddam was at odds with the west.


I'm not so sure of this. Evidence?

And if true, I would wager he had good intentioned reasons.

The only constancy in any of Galloway's foreign policy is an unremitting hostility towards the west.


Maybe this is based on reasonable grounds and from what he has witnessed in his over twenty years in politics?

[Ziggurat]

I'm not so sure of this. Evidence?

Galloway's own words. Whenever he talks about how he opposed Saddam, he always makes specific reference to the fact that others in the west were supporting Saddam while the noble Galloway was opposed to him. The implication he's trying to make is that he was principled and our governments are hypocritical for opposing Saddam, with the secondary effect that it serves to hide his later support for Saddam. But the pattern is in plain sight: Galloway's position on Saddam was always in opposition to the west. He switched from opposing Saddam to supporting Saddam as soon as Saddam became overtly hostile to the west.

And if true, I would wager he had good intentioned reasons.

Sure, and so did Stalin.

Maybe this is based on reasonable grounds and from what he has witnessed in his over twenty years in politics?

Are you saying you agree with his steadfast hostility to the west?

[Zeuzzz]

Galloway's own words. Whenever he talks about how he opposed Saddam, he always makes specific reference to the fact that others in the west were supporting Saddam while the noble Galloway was opposed to him. The implication he's trying to make is that he was principled and our governments are hypocritical for opposing Saddam, with the secondary effect that it serves to hide his later support for Saddam. But the pattern is in plain sight: Galloway's position on Saddam was always in opposition to the west. He switched from opposing Saddam to supporting Saddam as soon as Saddam became overtly hostile to the west.


This is the issue here: He does not support Sadam and never really did! He went there to discuss humanitarian issues while the west were selling him guns, and yes, shoock his hand. Big woo.

Now the reason that people think that he supports(ed) Sadam is that he was fully against the war. Everything is not black and white. Being against the war does not make you pro Sadam, even if you think it was best he was still in power rather than the terrible war that happened. He was a staunch supporter of simply pointing out that the reasons for the war were fabricated and Sadam had no WMD's (true) and that invading Iraq would create more support for Al-Queda (true) and would stir up far more trouble than good, true!

He clarifies this very well in this clip: uAfIjyD6jVY

He does not supprt Sadam, he just points out the obvious; that Iraq is in a far worse state after the war than it was under Sadam.

Sure, and so did Stalin.


Irrelivant.

Are you saying you agree with his steadfast hostility to the west?


When he backs it up with facts, yes. I have yet to see him make unfounded allegations.

[Ziggurat]

This is the issue here: He does not support Sadam and never really did! He went there to discuss humanitarian issues while the west were selling him guns, and yes, shoock his hand. Big woo.

He did more than shake hands, he sang the man's praise. Which amounts to as much support as his opposition to Saddam ever amounted to.

Now the reason that people think that he supports(ed) Sadam is that he was fully against the war. Everything is not black and white.

No, of course it's not black and white. But for Galloway, it is pro- and anti-west. And Galloway is reliably anti-west. You haven't put forward any argument that I'm wrong about that.

When he backs it up with facts, yes. I have yet to see him make unfounded allegations.

Then you have a remarkably poor memory. I showed you an example in this very thread, where he denied the existence of any evidence that anyone was killed in the Tiananmen square massacre.

[Zeuzzz]

He did more than shake hands, he sang the man's praise. Which amounts to as much support as his opposition to Saddam ever amounted to.


Well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway#Iraq_and_Saddam_Hussein
In 1994, Galloway faced some of his strongest criticism on his return from a Middle-Eastern visit during which he had met Saddam Hussein "to try and bring about an end to sanctions, suffering and war". At the meeting, he reported the support given to Saddam by the people of the Gaza Strip and ended his speech with the phrase "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability,"[50] although Galloway maintains that he was misinterpreted. Galloway's most recent public statement on the matter was in a January 2007 edition of the BBC's Hardtalk in which he states that he was saluting the "Iraqi people".[5] Galloway's speech was translated for Hussein, and Anasal-Tikriti, a friend of Galloways and a Respect candidate, spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain said: "I understand Arabic and it [Galloway's salutation] was taken completely out of context. When he said "you" he meant the Iraqi people, he was saluting their indefatigability, their resolve against sanctions. Even the interpreter got it right and, in Arabic, says salutes the stand of the Iraqi people'."[51]


Then you have a remarkably poor memory. I showed you an example in this very thread, where he denied the existence of any evidence that anyone was killed in the Tiananmen square massacre.


I'll get back to you on that one. I might be wrong about this, and so might george. We'll see in due course.

[Ziggurat]

I'll get back to you on that one. I might be wrong about this, and so might george. We'll see in due course.

What do you mean, he might be wrong? That video I linked to has photos of dead bodies from the massacre, and it's not exactly hard to find more photos of the dead from the massacre either. Yet he claimed there wasn't a single one. No, Zeuzzz: Galloway IS wrong. And a liar to boot.

[Undesired Walrus]

I'm still struggling for any valid reasons why Galloways such a bad guy.... :)

He supports Hamas.

[Zeuzzz]

He supports Hamas.


BZZZZT!

Wrong. He supports them over Israel while in conflict for humanitarian reasons, and will stick up for their right to defend themselves. He is not a hamas supporter by any means.

[Zeuzzz]

What do you mean, he might be wrong? That video I linked to has photos of dead bodies from the massacre, and it's not exactly hard to find more photos of the dead from the massacre either. Yet he claimed there wasn't a single one. No, Zeuzzz: Galloway IS wrong. And a liar to boot.


So this is what its come down to? One quote he made on a talk show years ago that may or may not be factually inaccurate. Not really a killer blow, eh?

I doubt he would deny that no-one died that day, even if thats what he said then. But I'll look into it and get back as I said.

[Undesired Walrus]

BZZZZT!

Wrong. He supports them over Israel while in conflict for humanitarian reasons, and will stick up for their right to defend themselves. He is not a hamas supporter by any means.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7939480.stm

He personally donated £25,000 and a fleet of vehicles.

As Lincoln said about slavery: 'If that is not support, then I don't know what is'.

[Sporanox]

BZZZZT!

Wrong. He supports them over Israel

So he supports them!!

[Zeuzzz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7939480.stm

As Lincoln said about slavery: 'If that is not support, then I don't know what is'.


As I said, he supports them in humaitarian situations. This was just after well over 1000 people had been killed in gaza, over 400 children, thousands of houses destroyed, over 8000 casualties. The money was that donated by the british people to the Gaza charity appeal to help the wounded and suffering. And the best way to get the money to the people of a war torn state is to give it to the democratically elected govenment who can best help their people.

[Sporanox]

As I said, he supports them in humaitarian situations.

You honestly think that Hamas is going to use that money for humanitarian causes, or that Galloway has any idea how the money is being used?

[Zeuzzz]

So he supports them!!


No, he supports them when they are being murdered and require charity, as he would any group of people. Which, oddly, you know, as I said it just after that, and you decided to edit that bit out :rolleyes:

[Undesired Walrus]

You realise that Galloway has given them enough money to fund quite a few suicide vests for misguided teenagers don't you? I thought you cared about the deaths of the young.

[Zeuzzz]

You honestly think that Hamas is going to use that money for humanitarian causes, or that Galloway has any idea how the money is being used?


Yes, as most of the aid came in form of food, nappies, and medical equiptment. And Hamas would not have such widespread support in palestine if they did not support their people. They have spent a lot of money on repairing their city, hospitals, repairing schools, and also on how to defend themselves incase of future onslaughts. Which I'm sure the palestinian people support. I see no riots against Hamas there, only hostility towards Israel.

[Sporanox]

No, he supports them when they are being murdered and require charity, as he would any group of people. Which, oddly, you know, as I said it just after that, and you decided to edit that bit out :rolleyes:

Uh, the part I edited out doesn't change the fact that he supports them. Why can't you grasp this?

[Sporanox]

Yes, as most of the aid came in form of food, nappies, and medical equiptment.

Except for the money and cars. I betcha Galloway knows EXACTLY how that's being spent...:rolleyes:

[Zeuzzz]

You realise that Galloway has given them enough money to fund quite a few suicide vests for misguided teenagers don't you? I thought you cared about the deaths of the young.


And why would they feel the need to buy suicide vests?

One side has state of the art bombers and precision weapons, and the other inaccurate mortars and suicide bombs.

And the still unanswered question of the thread:

Now, serious question, what on earth would drive people to resort to such drastic measures as blowing themselves up?


The previous answer of religion does not cut it, if you like I could rephrase "Now, serious question, what on earth would drive peoples religous views to become so drastic as they blow themselves up?

[Zeuzzz]

Uh, the part I edited out doesn't change the fact that he supports them. Why can't you grasp this?


No, he suports any people suffering. And the people suffering happen to be govened by Hamas.

[Sporanox]

And why would they feel the need to buy suicide vests?

Your spectacular red herring is noted.

ETA:

No, he suports any people suffering. And the people suffering happen to be govened by Hamas.

Yet he gave the supplies directly to Hamas...so he is giving material support to Hamas. It is Hamas' prerogative regarding how to use the resources. DUH.

[Zeuzzz]

SoVM8HifwCg

Another radio quote where george makes absolute sense. Debunk that.

Or this:

SqPbQGU2tms

[Undesired Walrus]

The previous answer of religion does not cut it, if you like I could rephrase "Now, serious question, what on earth would drive peoples religous views to become so drastic as they blow themselves up?

Strict interpretations of the Quran.

You seem to be stuck in infinite regress here, presumably wishing for me to proclaim that it is because the bullying measures of Israel, to which I could reply 'What would cause Israel to inflict such bullying measures?' to which you could reply 'Zionism' to which I could reply 'What would cause Israel to have such Zionist principles..', ad infinitum.

Sometimes people have to stop blaming others and take responsibility for their actions. It's part of growing up.

The myth of blowback is demonstrated by the murders of thousands of innocent Muslims by these murderers. The French Resistence didn't kill their own because they disagreed with their interpretations of how France should be. Nor did they spray acid into the faces of young girls trying to go to school, ala the Taliban.

As I've answered your question many times, please be so kind as to answer mine, the one I've asked a few times with no reply: Are you saying the Palestinians have it worse than Black Americans did for much of American history?

[Zeuzzz]

As I've answered your question many times, please be so kind as to answer mine, the one I've asked a few times with no reply: Are you saying the Palestinians have it worse than Black Americans did for much of American history?


I didn't answer it as its tottaly irrelivant.

But no, of course not. Thats a truly ridiculous statement.

[Zeuzzz]

The myth of blowback is demonstrated by the murders of thousands of innocent Muslims by these murderers.


Exactly. They really are scum aren't they? Everyone hates them.

These sort of extremists are the last things that Hamas wants. And they condemn every last one of them.

[Zeuzzz]

SoVM8HifwCg

Another radio quote where george makes absolute sense. Debunk that.


:whistling

[Undesired Walrus]

I didn't answer it as its tottaly irrelivant.

No, it's not. You are clearly implying that Hamas want to strap on vests to their children because of the brutality of their oppressors.

But no, of course not.

And thus, Douglass and Martin are people to look up to as the way civilised people function in the face of appalling suffering. Hamas are to be looked down to.

These sort of extremists are the last things that Hamas wants. And they condemn every last one of them.

They do? Every last one?

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/07/15/tv.show/index.html

It's meant to be a children's program, but "Young Pioneers" on Hamas-run television is well-known for pushing the boundaries of what most people would deem suitable content for children...

..The show was recently aired for the children of the bomber and other youths in a studio audience.

The young anchor sounds a defiant note: "And here we say to the occupier that we will follow her doctrine, the doctrine of the martyr mujahida Reem Riyashi, until we liberate our homeland from your illegitimate hands."

Riyashi killed four Israelis in a 2004 attack at the Erez crossing between Gaza and Israel.

In the video, an actress playing her prepares explosives for her mission, ignoring her children's questions about what she is doing.

"Mummy, what are you holding in your arms -- a toy or a present for me?" her daughter asks.

Her daughter then sees a news report about the suicide bombing and sings, "Only now I understand what was more important than us."

The camera cuts back to the faces of her two children watching the re-enactment.


I don't know about you, but I'd rather shove that £25,000 up my own behind before donating to something that promotes such child abuse.

[Zeuzzz]

No, it's not. You are clearly implying that Hamas want to strap on vests to their children because of the brutality of their oppressors.


Yes I am. Finally we got there.

Your point?

And thus, Douglass and Martin are people to look up to as the way civilised people function in the face of appalling suffering. Hamas are to be looked down to.


And for what reason? At the risk of sounding like a broken record, George does not support hamas, but he does support the humanitarian rights of their people and is happy to give aid to them when they are suffering, as are the majority of the British people.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather shove that £25,000 up my own behind before donating to something that promotes such child abuse.


Would you call some of the zionist view TV shows which clearly portray arabs as some sort of secondary race to the elitist Israelis child abuse too? Or the religous shows about jerusalem being the holy land? That is, afterall, where most of the Israeli army will have inherited their (racist) patriotic ideas from, which will nearly always be the reason why they joined the army in the first place.

[Undesired Walrus]

And for what reason? At the risk of sounding like a broken record, George does not support hamas,

What would you consider support then?

And for what reason?

Can't you see the intellectual superiority of people like Douglass and King to the deeply uncivilised Hamas?

but he does support the humanitarian rights of their people and is happy to give aid to them when they are suffering, as are the majority of the British people.

So why give the money to Hamas, a group that kills its own people?


Would you call some of the zionist view TV shows which clearly portray arabs as some sort of secondary race to the elitist Israelis child abuse too? That is, afterall, where most of the Israeli army will have inherited their (racist) patriotic ideas from, which will nearly always be the reason why they joined the army in the first place.

I thought we went through this fallacy. It's cowardly.

Do you therefore consider these TV Shows in Israel no big deal?

[Zeuzzz]

What would you consider support then?


Supporting all of their policies and ideologies. Some of which he does not.


So why give the money to Hamas, a group that kills its own people?


He's not giving money to Hamas really, all the money went to the people in Gaza through Hamas, as he clearly outlines here:

George Galloway on whether funds support Hamas
QDznF4cIGhI

I thought we went through this fallacy. It's cowardly.


Its an incorrect fallacy. You are using it to avoid the points raised fella :) (or missy)

Do you therefore consider these TV Shows in Israel no big deal?


the shows in Israel are a huge deal, without them there would be hardly any motivation for people to join the army on patriotic or religous grounds, and a lot less people would see any reason to fight their neighbours.

[Ziggurat]

So this is what its come down to? One quote he made on a talk show years ago that may or may not be factually inaccurate.

Wow. You still can't admit that he lied. You know, that's even more telling about you than it is about him.

The one thing I can't understand is why you're so willing to shoot your own credibility in the foot in order to defend him on this point.

[Zeuzzz]

Wow. You still can't admit that he lied. You know, that's even more telling about you than it is about him.

The one thing I can't understand is why you're so willing to shoot your own credibility in the foot in order to defend him on this point.


OK, to keep you happy for a while I'll say that George make a huge mistake about that one and I did too when I agreed with him.

When I look into his actual exact claims and deduce the reasons for him saying so, I will do. And that statement may have the be retratcted or not :)

[MarkCorrigan]

HE's a pompous worthless jackass who rode on the coattails of a small party with a powerful message so he could get his corpulent ass back in the limelight. He's a total arse and he has one of the worst records of attendance in the Houses of Parliament.

He went to do Big Brother while serving as an MP for gods sake!

[Zeuzzz]

Well, While I dont agree with his proclamation that no-one died there, I have found considerable evidence to support an gross exaggeration of events, as Mr Galloway implies by what he says. From the mouth of the very journalist there that took those iconic pictures and video we all saw relentlessly, an article in CBS:

There Was No "Tiananmen Square Massacre" (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/04/world/worldwatch/entry5061672.shtml)
This story was filed by CBS News correspondent Richard Roth, who was detained by Chinese authorities for 20 hours on June 4, 1989, while covering the Tiananmen Square "crackdown".

For years now (certainly by the time of the 10th anniversary of Tiananmen) scholars — and many journalists — have been describing it as a weekend massacre, a massacre in Beijing, the "Beijing massacre" or the "crackdown" in Tiananmen, but not a "Tiananmen Square massacre."

"Tiananmen massacre" is a phrase that still has currency, but it does tend to be used a lot less now in careful accounts of what happened there.

Behind this is the weight of eyewitness accounts, de-classified Western government reports, and historians' work that supports the story of a brief period of negotiation between the army and some student hold-outs (there weren't all that many left in the square by then) when troops began entering the square in force just before dawn -- silencing the public address system loudspeakers with a volley of gunfire. The last group of protestors filed out of the square to the south soon after.

I was being held captive by Chinese army troops on the south portico of the Great Hall of the People (which forms one of the borders of the Square) when that round of gunfire occurred.

I could hear it but I could not see into the Square. Around forty minutes later, Derek Williams and I were driven in a pair of army jeeps right through the square, almost along its full length, and into the Forbidden City.

Dawn was just breaking. There were hundreds of troops in the square, many sitting cross-legged on the pavement in long curving ranks, some cleaning up debris. There were some tanks and armored personnel carriers. But we saw no bodies, injured people, ambulances or medical personnel — in short, nothing to even suggest, let alone prove, that a "massacre" had recently occurred in that place.

Later, being debriefed on-air by Dan Rather, I recall making an effort to avoid using the word "massacre." I referred to an "assault" and an "attack."

I reported what I saw; I said I hadn't seen any bodies. Admittedly, I've never made a point of trying to contradict a colleague on the air; I've simply stuck to my own story, because I've believed it's true.

Some have found it uncomfortable that all this conforms with what the Chinese government has always claimed, perhaps with a bit of sophistry: that there was no "massacre in Tiananmen Square."

But there's no question many people were killed by the army that night around Tiananmen Square, and on the way to it — mostly in the western part of Beijing. Maybe, for some, comfort can be taken in the fact that the government denies that, too.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/31/sunday/main5051952.shtml
Even today, no one knows how many died as a result of the crackdown.

Jeff Widener (left), then working for the Associated Press, took pictures through the night and came back the next day to snap one more image from a balcony.

"This is a nice compressed shot of tanks coming," he recalled, "and this guy walks out." Widener thought, "'This guy is going to screw up my picture.'"

The result: An image now known simply as the Tank Man.

"Why do you think that image resonated around the world?" Petersen asked.

"Well, it's David and Goliath," Widener said.

[Pardalis]

As a fly in the ointment I like Galloway and we're all the better for it. And if you really REALLY dislike him who is better to love to hate?

I'm curious, would you say the same about Glenn Beck?

[Zeuzzz]

He's a total arse and he has one of the worst records of attendance in the Houses of Parliament.


Yeah he didn't exactly rub along well with all the MPs, specially the sort who claim illegal money and were responsoble for the UK's foreign policy. He called most MP's in the houses of paliament a largely spineless supine bunch. I think that supine is a very good description.

He went to do Big Brother while serving as an MP for gods sake!


That was a mistake in my opinion, but he had balls for doing it eh? Cant think of other politicians strong and confident enough to do that live for 24 hours a day.

[Algebra34]

What's the issue here? Invading the Middle East was corrupt, ill advised, and is still a never ending disaster. Galloway was dead on about the corrupt part before anyone else wanted to even consider it. He was smeared for messing with certain peoples agendas. Plain and simple.

[Zeuzzz]

http://www.sinomania.com/CHINANEWS/tiananmen_perspective.html
Other than the official Chinese information, no reliable evidence of deaths has ever been produced by anyone on either side of the issue. As Jay Mathews, former Beijing bureau chief for the Washington Post has said (http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-21160696/myth-tiananmen-and-price.html), there is no evidence anyone died in Tiananmen Square. Yet no journalist or politician outside China has ever attempted to correct the record. Instead the myth that thousands of unarmed people were deliberately mowed down by their own government is spread as part of an unacknowledged campaign of misinformation led by sinophobic press and politicians.

[portlandatheist]

I'll refrain from saying anything about George Galloway because it would be nearly impossible to do so without breaking my membership agreement.

[gtc]

Yeah he didn't exactly rub along well with all the MPs, specially the sort who claim illegal money and were responsoble for the UK's foreign policy. He called most MP's in the houses of paliament a largely spineless supine bunch. I think that supine is a very good description.

It's not about how you rub along well with other MPs. It is whether you are there to represent your constituency by voting and speaking. And it is about the amount of time you work outside of Parliament on representing your constituency.

[MarkCorrigan]

That was a mistake in my opinion, but he had balls for doing it eh? Cant think of other politicians strong and confident enough to do that live for 24 hours a day.
No.

He ran away from his responsibilities to be a media whore on a show for low grade morons.

Any politician who abandons their constituents and their job MAKING OUR LAWS to dick around in a red leotard should be sacked.

He's worthless.

[Zeuzzz]

I'll refrain from saying anything about George Galloway because it would be nearly impossible to do so without breaking my membership agreement.


Are you gay by any chance? If so, I understand why you want to refrain from saying anything about George Galloway...

[Zeuzzz]

Any politician who abandons their constituents and their job MAKING OUR LAWS to dick around in a red leotard should be sacked.


I think that having fun and making a tit out of himself in a red leotard is a far worse offense than many MP's comitted recently in the expenses scandal. Some of them broke the law.

It was, however, a good PR move :) Certainly got him in the headlines.

[gtc]

Its made him a laughing stock around the world. People who had never heard of him before or since were laughing at him.

[Zeuzzz]

It's not about how you rub along well with other MPs. It is whether you are there to represent your constituency by voting and speaking. And it is about the amount of time you work outside of Parliament on representing your constituency.


It should be quite apparent that George lost quite a lot of faith in the parliamentary system, and only voted when he needed to, or when he knew it would count for anything. He was elected by the people. And I saw no public uproar during his time.

[Zeuzzz]

Its made him a laughing stock around the world. People who had never heard of him before or since were laughing at him.


Laughter is the best medicine.

He doesn't care people are laughing. If anything he'll be glad to have provided entertainment. :p

[Zeuzzz]

What's the issue here? Invading the Middle East was corrupt, ill advised, and is still a never ending disaster. Galloway was dead on about the corrupt part before anyone else wanted to even consider it. He was smeared for messing with certain peoples agendas. Plain and simple.


Spot on the money mate :D

[lionking]

No.

He ran away from his responsibilities to be a media whore on a show for low grade morons.

Any politician who abandons their constituents and their job MAKING OUR LAWS to dick around in a red leotard should be sacked.

He's worthless.

Spot on. He is a disgrace.

[gtc]

It should be quite apparent that George lost quite a lot of faith in the parliamentary system,

His statements of support for the Soviet Union and Saddam's regime suggest that he never had much time for democracy anyway.

He was elected by the people.

A fact he doesn't seem to care about.

And I saw no public uproar during his time.

Then I don't think you follow the news very closely because that has been mentioned many times.

[Undesired Walrus]

He's not giving money to Hamas really, all the money went to the people in Gaza through Hamas, as he clearly outlines here:

How's he know that?


the shows in Israel are a huge deal, without them there would be hardly any motivation for people to join the army on patriotic or religous grounds, and a lot less people would see any reason to fight their neighbours.

*sigh*

What happened here is that I brought up an example of Hamas child abuse, and you deflected by saying 'Well what about those TV shows in Israel eh?'. This is a desperately cowardly diversion, and only one you can get out of if you conclude that the shows in Israel are no big deal.

As you conclude that they are a huge deal, are we right in assuming you thus consider the Hamas TV shows a huge deal too, and that "without them there would be hardly any motivation for people to join the army on patriotic or religous grounds, and a lot less people would see any reason to fight their neighbours?"

[Zeuzzz]

Spot on. He is a disgrace.


Okay, your opinion.

Is there any evidence that his constituents were really annoyed with him getting all the coverage? I think if anything it may have raised awareness of him more. Even though I dont think it was a good idea for him to do it, for the reasons MarkCorrigan said.

[MarkCorrigan]

Okay, your opinion.

Is there any evidence that his constituents were really annoyed with him getting all the coverage? I think if anything it may have raised awareness of him more. Even though I dont think it was a good idea for him to do it, for the reasons MarkCorrigan said.

Raised awareness that he was a useless slacking jackass.

There were newspaper reports all over the shop decrying his refusal to do his job in favour of wasting his time with Pete Burns.

The man is a worthless sack of crap.

[Zeuzzz]

SoVM8HifwCg

Another radio quote where george makes absolute sense. Debunk that.


:whistling

[Undesired Walrus]

Is there any evidence that his constituents were really annoyed with him getting all the coverage?

Plenty.

3DZdgEQWYE8

It was utterly disgraceful. He abandoned his constituents, some of the poorest people in the country, the people who voted him in, in order to lie around in bubble baths and pretend to drink milk out of some Z-List's hands. It's just appalling.

And now he's not running for re-election. He ********** them, and now he's chucked them.

[Zeuzzz]

There were newspaper reports all over the shop decrying his refusal to do his job in favour of wasting his time with Pete Burns.


Yes there were indeed, but lets not take what they say too seriously or have our opinion that taken by them shall we? Lets remember he has won three court cases against major British newspapers.

I meant what happened after he went into big brother? Did his constiuents revolt? Sack him?

[gtc]

People have a low tolerance for youtube clips, particularly ones which are nearly 10 minutes long. Can you summarise what point he is making and why you think it is good?

[Zeuzzz]

*sigh*

What happened here is that I brought up an example of Hamas child abuse, and you deflected by saying 'Well what about those TV shows in Israel eh?'. This is a desperately cowardly diversion, and only one you can get out of if you conclude that the shows in Israel are no big deal.

As you conclude that they are a huge deal, are we right in assuming you thus consider the Hamas TV shows a huge deal too, and that "without them there would be hardly any motivation for people to join the army on patriotic or religous grounds, and a lot less people would see any reason to fight their neighbours?"


*sigh*

Yep, exactly. I'm no Hamas supporter, just like galloway.

[gtc]

Sack him?

In the Westminster system, how does one go about sacking their MP? Bearing in mind the first and last election he stood for in Bethnal Green and Bow was in 2005.

[Undesired Walrus]

*sigh*

Yep, exactly. I'm no Hamas supporter, just like galloway.

Aside from giving them £25,000. Why didn't he give the money to a charity?

[plumjam]

Zeuzzz, you're wasting your time with these propagandized fools.

[lionking]

Zeuzzz, you're wasting your time with these propagandized fools.

Huh? How is concluding Galloway is a fool evidence one is propagandized?

[richardm]

Yes there were indeed, but lets not take what they say too seriously or have our opinion that taken by them shall we?

Well what chance does that give us? We can show you articles like this (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article786534.ece)

Muhammad Abdul Bari, the chairman of the East London Mosque in Mr Galloway’s Bethnal Green & Bow constituency, said that he had been puzzled to discover that his MP was now appearing on a show that many Muslims would consider indecent. “A lot of Muslims find it very unpalatable that their MP would consider doing this sort of show,” he said.
Dr Bari was considered instrumental in helping Mr Galloway to secure the support of Muslim voters, who make up 40 per cent of the constituency... “It really is very puzzling,” he said. “The community here is very deprived. It needs its local MP."


And you are able to simply dismiss it because "You can't believe what the papers say". It's dangerously close to True Believer stuff. Mind you that's a typical Galloway tactic; he himself dismisses critics by saying that they're people who supported the war and so don't like him anyway, no matter what their criticism is actually about. Small wonder bottled water sales have gone through the roof, he's poisoned most of the wells in the country.

[JihadJane]

HE's a pompous worthless jackass who rode on the coattails of a small party with a powerful message so he could get his corpulent ass back in the limelight. He's a corpulent ass and he has one of the worst records of attendance in the Houses of Parliament.

He went to do Big Brother while serving as an MP for gods sake!

"Worthless jackass", "corpulent ass", "corpulent ass".

By what measure is the Labour party small?

Or are you suggesting there's something wrong with riding one's own "coattails"?

His behavior is no worse and, ethically, much better, than numerous other politicians. Why does he attract so much froth? Because he tells it like it is.

In the sea of moral cowardice that was the submissive, pro-war UK parliament, supposedly stupified by its dumb trust in its leaders' obvious lies, Galloway spoke out for millions in condemning the criminal attack on Iraq for what is was. This act alone negates your ill-considered "worthess jackass "analysis".


He is also reported to have said that Tony Blair and George W. Bush had "lied to the British Air Force and Navy, when they said the battle of Iraq would be very quick and easy. They attacked Iraq like wolves...."

"... the best thing British troops can do is to refuse to obey illegal orders."

Later, he apologized for describing George W. Bush as a "wolf", saying that to do so defamed wolves:

"No wolf would commit the sort of crimes against humanity that George Bush committed against the people of Iraq.”

Very true. Galloway's a gem.

[WildCat]

Very true. Galloway's a gem.
Well it's clear he has the trruther vote.

[JihadJane]

Well it's clear he has the trruther vote.

Do you want to save some energy and employ me to write your posts for you?

[funk de fino]

So considering this is not answering the question of whether George supports or supported sadam hussein, I presume you conceed he does not?

That would be a laughable presumption seen as I posted a video of George showing his support.

And anyone who is a stealth bomber is a patriotic fanatic. Theres no moral difference.

Now you are lying. Not all servicemen are patriots.

[funk de fino]

This is the issue here: He does not support Sadam and never really did! He went there to discuss humanitarian issues while the west were selling him guns, and yes, shoock his hand. Big woo.

Wrong again, he went in 94 and shook his hand. After the Gulf war. You really are clueless on this aren't you?

[funk de fino]

It should be quite apparent that George lost quite a lot of faith in the parliamentary system, and only voted when he needed to, or when he knew it would count for anything. He was elected by the people. And I saw no public uproar during his time.

Then you do not read papers or watch the news.

That makes a lot of sense.

[funk de fino]

I think that having fun and making a tit out of himself in a red leotard is a far worse offense than many MP's comitted recently in the expenses scandal. Some of them broke the law.

It was, however, a good PR move :) Certainly got him in the headlines.

Making fun of alcohlics, bullying young models and being two faced to other young celebrities.

Very noble.

[funk de fino]

"Worthless jackass", "corpulent ass", "corpulent ass".

By what measure is the Labour party small?

Or are you suggesting there's something wrong with riding one's own "coattails"?

His behavior is no worse and, ethically, much better, than numerous other politicians. Why does he attract so much froth? Because he tells it like it is.

In the sea of moral cowardice that was the submissive, pro-war UK parliament, supposedly stupified by its dumb trust in its leaders' obvious lies, Galloway spoke out for millions in condemning the criminal attack on Iraq for what is was. This act alone negates your ill-considered "worthess jackass "analysis".


He is also reported to have said that Tony Blair and George W. Bush had "lied to the British Air Force and Navy, when they said the battle of Iraq would be very quick and easy. They attacked Iraq like wolves...."

"... the best thing British troops can do is to refuse to obey illegal orders."

Later, he apologized for describing George W. Bush as a "wolf", saying that to do so defamed wolves:

"No wolf would commit the sort of crimes against humanity that George Bush committed against the people of Iraq.”

Very true. Galloway's a gem.

His support for Saddam after previously being against him says more than anything you can post here. Calling for arabs to come and fight against british troops is the sign of scum.

he is a two faced lying hypocrite

[funk de fino]

Galloway's speech was translated for Hussein, and Anasal-Tikriti, a friend of Galloways and a Respect candidate, spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain said: "I understand Arabic and it [Galloway's salutation] was taken completely out of context. When he said "you" he meant the Iraqi people, he was saluting their indefatigability, their resolve against sanctions. Even the interpreter got it right and, in Arabic, says salutes the stand of the Iraqi people'

This is by far the biggest crock that has been posted so far. galloway speaks in english. A translation to Saddam means nothing. He said what he said.

Here it is again for those who ignored it earlier. His admission of opposing him previously and his salute to Saddam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzWNXEtwHUc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fqOVDEI1bU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy7U8z9cfik&feature=related

[dudalb]

I have a feeling that for the overwhelming majority of UK residents, the departure of Galloway from Parliament will be a case of "good riddence to bad garbage".

[Zeuzzz]

So theres no real reasons that people can give then why he's so bad? Apart from all the ones that I've proved wrong :D

Might make a list of all the things people have accused him of that were outright wrong in a bit, that would be a laugh. You have to wonder why so many people believe all these false allegations.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

:whistling:

What's there to debunk? Galloway feels that Israelis knowing how to aim is a crime.

What he fails to realize is that Israel had the right to shoot back as soon as just ONE SINGLE ROCKET flew over the border.

If I have F-16s, Apache gunships and Merkava battle tanks, and you toss an explosive warhead in my direction, I'm gonna come over there and @#$% your *&%$ up... fair warning. So don't do it.

"But the UN says this, and the UN says that and the UN..." Screw the UN. They have no say in this and no credibility. When an organization knowingly and wilfully appoints a purveyor of anti-semitic conspiracy theories (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/search?q=Falk)as it's chief Israel basher, everything they have to say on the topic becomes null and void.

[Zeuzzz]

What's there to debunk? Galloway feels that Israelis knowing how to aim is a crime.


No, knowing how to aim yet causing huge civilian deaths is what he thinks is a crime. And it is. As he points out, there were six months where not a single shot was fired by hamas. And even when they do they are inaccurate, hardly ever cause any fatalities, are often not supported by Hamas in the first place (maybe a grieving father whos family has been murdered fires something there as revenge).

And how is the UN guy anti-semitic? Dont have time at the mo... will read fully tomorrow.

[WildCat]

No, knowing how to aim yet causing huge civilian deaths is what he thinks is a crime
Name one other war in an urban setting that produced fewer civilian casualties than the Gaza incursions.

And, of course, your boy Galloway fully supports Hamas and gives them money so they can buy weapons to deliberately target Israeli civilians and torture to death Palestinian political opponents. They're his heros.

What a guy! :rolleyes:

[Zeuzzz]

noticed you ignored this earlier,

List of Israeli assassinations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations
1990s

* February 16, 1992 - Abbas al-Musawi, the Secretary-General of Hezbollah, is killed in his car convoy in Lebanon by missiles launched from two Israeli helicopters.[1]
* June 8, 1992 - Atef Bseiso, Palestinian official assassinated by Mossad for involvement in the Munich Massacre. Shot several times in the head at point blank range by 2 gunmen after returning to his hotel for the night (Aaron Klein's "Striking Back")
* October 26, 1995 - Fathi Shaqaqi, the head of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, is shot and killed in front of the Diplomat Hotel in Sliema, Malta.[1]
* January 6, 1996 - Yahya Ayyash "The Engineer", a bombmaker for Hamas, is killed in the Gaza strip by a bomb planted in a cell phone by the SHABAK.[1]

[edit] 2000s

* November 22, 2000 - Jamal Abdel Raziq, senior official of the Fatah faction Tanzim, is killed with his driver, Awni Dhuheir, when their car is fired upon by IDF troops in Gaza. The IDF troops also killed two innocent bystanders in the car in front of Abdel Raziq -- Sami Abu Laban, 29, a baker, and Na'el Al Leddawi, 22, a student -- in the attack.[6][7]
* February 3, 2001 - Massoud Ayyad, a lieutenant-colonel in Yaser Arafat's Force 17, is killed while driving in the Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza by three helicopter launched rockets.[8]
* July 31, 2001 - Jamal Mansour, a high ranking official of Hamas' West Bank political wing, is killed when his office is struck by helicopter launched missiles.[9]
* August 20, 2001 - Imad Abu Sneneh, the leader of Tanzim, is shot and killed in Hebron by an Israeli team.[10]
* January 14, 2002 - Raed al-Karmi, head of al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades assassinated in Tulkarem.
* July 22, 2002 - Salah Shahade, the leader of Hamas Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades is killed using 2,205 pound of explosive dropped by a F-16. The attack also killed his wife and 9 children.
* March 8, 2003 - Ibrahim al-Makadmeh and three of his aides were killed by helicopter-fired missiles Gaza City
* August 21, 2003 - Ismail Abu Shanab - high ranking Hamas official [11]
* March 22, 2004 - Ahmed Yassin, co-founder and leader of Hamas, and bodyguards are killed in the Gaza Strip when hit by Israeli Air Force AH-64 Apache fired Hellfire missiles.
* April 17, 2004 - Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi, co-founder and leader of Hamas and successor of Ahmed Yassin as leader of Hamas after his death, is killed by helicopter-fired missiles along with his son.
* October 21, 2004 - Adnan al-Ghoul, Hamas weapons expert, and Imad Abbas were killed when an Apache helicopter fired missiles at their car.
* May 25, 2006 - Mahmoud al-Majzoub, a commander of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, was injured in a car bombing in Sidon, Lebanon and died the next day. Islamic Jihad blamed Israel, though Israel denied it.
* June 8, 2006 - Jamal Abu Samhadana was killed by an Israeli airstrike along with at least three other PRC members.[12][13]
* January 16, 2008 - Walid Obeidi, commander of Islamic Jihad's al-Quds Brigade is gunned down by Israeli commandos in the West Bank town of Qabatiya.[14]
* February 12, 2008 - Imad Mughniyah, one of Hezbollah's top commanders, was assassinated by a car bomb in Damascus, Syria. Some news reports indicated the Mossad was responsible,[15] though Israel denied carrying it out.[16].
* August 1, 2008 - Muhammad Suleiman, a Syrian General and top liaison between Syria and Hezbollah, is killed by sniper fire. Israel never takes credit for the killing but is widely suspected.[17][18]
* December 16, 2008 - Jihad Nawahda, a top Islamic Jihad commander, is ambushed and killed by undercover Israeli troops as he enters an internet cafe in the West Bank city of Jenin.[19]
* December 27, 2008 - Tawfiq Jabber, the commander of Hamas' police force in Gaza; Ismail al-Ja'abri, commander of the defense and security directorate; and Abu-Ahmad Ashur, Hamas' Gaza central district governor are all among the Hamas dead in the opening strike of Operation Cast Lead.[20]
* January 1, 2009 - Nizar Rayan, one of the top Hamas military commanders and decision makers, is assassinated in an Israeli air strike, along with his four wives and eleven of their children. He is the most senior Hamas member to be killed since 2004.
* January 3, 2009 - Abu Zakaria al-Jamal, a senior Hamas commander, is killed in an Israeli air strike.[21]
* January 15, 2009 - Said Seyam, the Hamas Interior Minister, is killed in an Israeli air strike that also claimed his brother, his son, and Hamas general security services commander Salah Abu Shrakh.[22]
* March 5, 2009 - Khaled Shalan, a senior member of Islamic Jihad, is killed in an Israeli air strike as retaliation for Palestinian rocket attacks on the Israeli city of Ashkelon.[23]
* May 28, 2009 - Abdel-Majid Uddin, a major Hamas commander in the West Bank, is killed during a raid conducted by the Israeli Special Forces unit YAMAM.[24]
* Others.[25]



Thats gonna create quite a lotta anger, isn't it? Could we maybe make a comparison here between the ideology of Israels Kidon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidon) and Hamas?

[WildCat]

noticed you ignored this earlier,

List of Israeli assassinations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations



Thats gonna create quite a lotta anger, isn't it? Could we maybe make a comparison here between the ideology of Israels Kidon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidon) and Hamas?
Are you claiming it is wrong to kill those who are at war with you?

Have you found an urban war which had less civilian deaths than the Gaza incursion yet?

And curious you once again ignore that Hamas targets civilians and tortures political opponents to death.

[Zeuzzz]

Are you claiming it is wrong to kill those who are at war with you?


Now, were they at war for all of these killings? No.

And curious you once again ignore that Hamas targets civilians and tortures political opponents to death.


I have not seen such evidence, but would not be entirely surprised. I have however seen numerous accounts of Israel targetting civilian locations and thus civilians, and killing dozens of people and leaders through their various assassinations.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

noticed you ignored this earlier,

List of Israeli assassinations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

They should have kept their military grade heavy artillery rockets to themselves. They might still have been alive that way.

[Zeuzzz]

Pawnage.

George Galloway speaks to a Zionist - PART 1
oQYMoDz7xpo

George Galloway speaks to a Zionist - PART 2
B46ZpE_O1lQ

Picks his points apart piece by piece in part two.

Whats the matter with these extremist zionists?