Biggie and Tupac (murdered by Cops? FBI? Suge Knight?)

[Sunray Breaker]

I was listening to some gangsta rap the other night (cuz I dig it) and I was curious about something. I had seen a film a few years back that re-investigated the murders of Biggie and Tupac. The film definitely has it's woo moments and the director can be a bit dramatic at times. But he does get some pretty interesting information from tons of people who apparently had a good idea of what was going on. Includes close friends and family of Pac, Body Guards, fellow musicians, etc.

There are a few random CT's that have spawned from this and I was wondering what JREF's take was on it.

1. The film suggests a couple of people close to Pac that could be linked to his murder. One is Suge Knight (who not only behaved unusually that night, But was enraged at Pac for threatening to take back all of his demos and sell them to a new rec. company)

Also Pac's bodyguard was apparently taken off of assignment shortly before he left in the car with Suge, something the bodyguard thought was rather peculiar, as he was supposed to stay with Pac all night. The bodyguard also made a film about it that I haven't had a chance to see yet (for all we know it could be an attempt at cashing in on his death though)

2. The Film also suggests the possibility of a cop gone bad, I can't recall if it was shortly before or after the murder (which his vehicle description matched that of the car that shot at tupac.)
that this cop was arrested for a string of bank robberies.

3. The most compelling evidence, was this confessional, which has lead to re-opening the cold case of biggie's death
In this scene from the documentary Biggie and Tupac, this man confesses to delivered the "hit" money for biggie. His interview starts around the 3 min mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOwVNVbJEwc&feature=related

What are you're thoughts on this? I've always been curious about a possible FBI/bad cop/Suge Knight(paying for the hit) connection with these murders...It is, to me, highly suspect as to how little was actually done to investigate these murders (or so my woo "riddled" brain could be telling me) Not to mention, the FBI and police (according to a documentary film called Rap Sheet) there is still a federally funded surveilance program and several snitches within the rap community. It's definitely no suprize that Gangsta Rap (in particular) and Authorities had a tendency to clash...

What sayeth the the forums?

PS - This is in no way related to the Pac faking his own death CT, cuz that's just silly...Granted, my questions may be just as goofy to those with a more critical eye...

[Sunray Breaker]

Don't all answer at once...

[dudalb]

I think a few lovers of good music are responsible.

[Arcade22]

I think a few lovers of good music are responsible.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/188094accecde54de2.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=17779)

[Sunray Breaker]

A few lovers of good music that we're incredibly good at leaving absolutely no trace at the seen of either crime?

Little to No forensic evidence, No suspects? Cold Case? Damn these random, gang bangin' hip hop fans we're damn smart...Smarter than CSI, FBI, LAPD and Vegas Cops...

[Sunray Breaker]

C'mon now...this place has some serious brains...Put some elbow grease in it. Even if it we're just a rival gang thing...Where are the people associated with this murder?

Even based on the typical JREF theory of a conspiracy, it's usually small, usually doesn't last long and almost always gets exposed...

Why has nothing been exposed regarding this case...Why has no one come out?

[oldhat]

Why has nothing been exposed regarding this case...Why has no one come out?

Witnesses won't cooperate with the FBI and police (read: snitch).

P.S. Suge killed Biggie in retaliation for Tupac's death.

[Quad4_72]

I would love to comment but know nothing on the matter. I also don't really care to investigate it too much myself. Gangsters killing themselves off doesn't bother me too much.

[dudalb]

Witnesses won't cooperate with the FBI and police (read: snitch).

P.S. Suge killed Biggie in retaliation for Tupac's death.

Ah yes "Don't be Snitching" another reason to dislike Hip Hop Culture.

[Sunray Breaker]

Ah yes "Don't be Snitching" another reason to dislike Hip Hop Culture.
Not necessarily...The cops don't snitch on eachother for many different reasons. People in a certain tight knit group be it cops, FBI, Gangsters, Drug Lords or even just a family, is not going to rat on their own...That's way beyond hip hop culture in my opinion.

I've seen cops defend some pretty ugly actions. I've also seen gangster rappers do the same.

Is nobody fascinated by the fact that Tupac Shakur, a man who had a tremendous amount of strong influence on a disenfranchised black youth, was murdered on the vegas strip after a Tyson fight (has to be at least a few witnesses) and not even a license plate? Suspect? C'mon now?

Is there nothing supsicious about this?

I don't see it as a woo claim that cops and hip hop culture did not exactly have each other's best interest in mind. You don't think that, at the very least, the cops we're a bit lazy about this investigation, possibly due to their lack of respect for the victim?

It's at least a possibility that warrants some research, don't you agree?

It should at least be ruled out.

[oldhat]

Ah yes "Don't be Snitching" another reason to dislike Hip Hop Culture.

Same goes for cops, firemen, politicians, people in the media, doctors, lawyers, etc.

[Sunray Breaker]

I'm a bit dissappointed that you guys don't seem to take this very seriously. I'd imagine if Mr. Randi or a fellow skeptic we're murdered under such circumstances, and there we're no suspects, even though the murder happened in a very crowded location, you guys would be having field day. Especially if say...the investigation was headed by psychics, vatican, or someone else with a bias view towards the victim. I know how much you guys hate bias.

[oldhat]

Is there nothing supsicious about this?


Witnesses won't cooperate with the police. Everyone knows who did it. But no one will testify.

[Sunray Breaker]

Same goes for cops, firemen, politicians, people in the media, doctors, lawyers, etc.
Exactly...it's a human trait, and to pigeonhole that into the hiphop community demonstrates, to me, a clear bias.

[oldhat]

Exactly...it's a human trait, and to pigeonhole that into the hiphop community demonstrates, to me, a clear bias.

It's terrible when b-l-a-c-k people do it but if police or doctors lie and cover up for each other and won't cooperate with internal investigations, hey, it's OK!

[Sunray Breaker]

It's terrible when b-l-a-c-k people do it but if police or doctors lie and cover up for each other and won't cooperate with internal investigations, hey, it's OK!
As skeptical as I am of many of the conspiracy theories, Police Corruption is definetly something that still sticks in my craw a bit. They do have a certain advantage that can permit them to get away with a bit more than your average joe.

[Sledge]

I'm a bit dissappointed that you guys don't seem to take this very seriously. I'd imagine if Mr. Randi or a fellow skeptic we're murdered under such circumstances, and there we're no suspects, even though the murder happened in a very crowded location, you guys would be having field day. Especially if say...the investigation was headed by psychics, vatican, or someone else with a bias view towards the victim. I know how much you guys hate bias.

There's a limit to the number of topics a person can reasonably be expected to research, or even care about. When a criminal I'd never heard of prior to his death is killed, I'm hard pressed to give a monkeys.

[Sunray Breaker]

There's a limit to the number of topics a person can reasonably be expected to research, or even care about. When a criminal I'd never heard of prior to his death is killed, I'm hard pressed to give a monkeys.

Criminal or not, his death deserves to be investigated as much as anyone else's...And as questionable as Pac's actions were, he was a lot more than just a criminal. With that type of logic, you're kind of suggesting that anybody with a questionable criminal past could be murdered and no one should even bother to chase down the suspect...I imagine the cops had your same mindset, and that's exactly my point.

[Newtons Bit]

I'm pretty sure it was Mr. T that murdered Tupac.

"You're fingers Tupac, they're orange! They're orange, Tupac, they're orange!"

Lesson learned: don't steal Mr. T's cheetos.

[Juniversal]

Ah yes "Don't be Snitching" another reason to dislike Hip Hop Culture.Not all hip-hop is gangsta rap believe it or not. :) (was going to add the eye roll smiley but it seemed a little condescending lol). As a matter of fact a decent portion of corrent hip-hop is quite the opposite (Common, The Roots, Lupe Fiasco, Kid Kudi, hell..even Kanye west for that matter) and Tupac had his moments.

[Juniversal]

Criminal or not, his death deserves to be investigated as much as anyone else's...And as questionable as Pac's actions were, he was a lot more than just a criminal. With that type of logic, you're kind of suggesting that anybody with a questionable criminal past could be murdered and no one should even bother to chase down the suspect...I imagine the cops had your same mindset, and that's exactly my point.Agreed. I'm partial to this set of interviews (Very insightful and lucid for ANY 17 year old):

Part 1

mgA95WN7tX8

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqvC3q99W-Q

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMXBYkYCmXU

Part 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPe2zkjLuGw

[dudalb]

It's terrible when b-l-a-c-k people do it but if police or doctors lie and cover up for each other and won't cooperate with internal investigations, hey, it's OK!

Always ready to play the race card, are'nt you?
Thanks for reminding me why I have such a dislike for Bay Area Radicals.

[Sunray Breaker]

Not all hip-hop is gangsta rap believe it or not. (was going to add the eye roll smiley but it seemed a little condescending lol). As a matter of fact a decent portion of corrent hip-hop is quite the opposite (Common, The Roots, Lupe Fiasco, Kid Kudi, hell..even Kanye west for that matter) and Tupac had his moments.

Agreed. And furthermore I don't see the violence talked about or that even occurred in hip hop much different than the type of lyrics or incidents you would hear about n blues, rock and roll, country, jazz. Just more of a shock value because it does hail from a faster paced more extreme counter culture.

(rock and roll)
Shot my ol lady down
caught her messin' around with another man
Jimi Hendrix

(Country)
I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die
Johnny Cash

(Alternative)
I am a big man, yes I am and I've got a big gun
Nine inch nails

You can't expect Gangster Rap music to perpetuate an idea it's frankly never been that unfamiliar with, peace.

Not to mention...Frank Sinatra, Johnny Cash, Charles Mingus, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Axel Rose, and dozens more ALSO fall under the category of Criminal, by definition...If they we're murdered in cold blood, in front of tons of witnesses, but no suspects were arrested (even those with vehicles matching the description, which is standard) and they simply closed the case, without further investigation, you wouldn't be suspect?

I'd bet in the least the more apathetic people in this thread, might approach the investigation itself with a little more respect, we're it someone THEY considered a legend.

[Sunray Breaker]

Always ready to play the race card, are'nt you?
Thanks for reminding me why I have such a dislike for Bay Area Radicals.
Well I do find it funny that police are in full force in the black crack neighborhoods, but aren't nearly as militant in the white meth neighborhoods...

I'd be glad to see a statistic that proves otherwise, until then, I stand by my conviction and look forward to someone putting my foot in my mouth.

[Sunray Breaker]

Also, Lupe is an amazing lyricist, I put him on the same level as Bob Dylan. He's very calm, cool and collected, incredibly smart and evokes some deep emotions...

Liek the lyrics to this song for instance, where he personifies the ghetto itself, as if he we're a solitary character, bragging about the damage he's done to his own people...

Tupac, Nas, Biggie and Jay-z are his biggest influences by the way...

Don't you know that I run this place,
And I've begun this race,
Must I rerun this pace?
I'm the reason its become this way
And their love for it is the reason I have become this praised

They love my darkness,
I make them heartless,
And in return, the have become my martyrs,
I've been in the poem of many a poet,
And I reside in the art of many a artist

Some of your smartest have tried to artictulate
My whole part in this
But they're fruitless in their harvestin'
The drow grows from my footsteps
I'm the one that they follow,
I am the one that they march with

Through the back alleys
And the black markets,
The Oval Offices,
Crackhouses and apartments
Through the mazes of the queens,
The pages of the sages
And the Chambers of The Kings

Through the veins-es of the fiends,
A paper chaser's pager,
Yo, I'm famous on the scene
One of the oldest, most ancient-est of things
Seak every single language on the planet, kn' what I mean?

I am the American dream,
The rape of Africa
The undying machine,
The overpriced medicine,
The murderous regime,
The tough guy's front,
And the one behind the scenes

I am the blood of this city,
It's gas, water, and electricity,
I'm it's gym, and it's math, and it's history,
The gunshots in the class
And you can't pass if you're missin, G.
I taught them better than that
I taught them aim for the head
And hope they never come back
I'm glad your daddy's gone, baby,
Hope he never comes back,
I hope he's with your mother,
With my hustlers high in my trap

I hope you die in his trash,
I can't help it all I hear when you're crying is laughs
I'm sure somebody find you tied up in this bag,
Behind the hospital little baby,
Crack addicts had

Then maybe you can grow up to be a stripper,
A welfare-receiving prostitute
And gold digger,
You can watch on TV,
How they should properly depict you,
The rivers should flow with liqour,
Quench your thirst on my elixers,

I am the safe haven for the rebel runaway and the resistor
Ihe trusted misleader,
The number one defender,
And from a throne of their bones I rule,
These fools are my fuel
So I make them Cool

Baptize them in the water out of Scarface pool,
And feed 'em from the table that held Corleone's food,
If you die, tell them that you played my game
I hope your bullet holes become mouths that say my name,

[Sledge]

Criminal or not, his death deserves to be investigated as much as anyone else's...And as questionable as Pac's actions were, he was a lot more than just a criminal. With that type of logic, you're kind of suggesting that anybody with a questionable criminal past could be murdered and no one should even bother to chase down the suspect...I imagine the cops had your same mindset, and that's exactly my point.

And that relates to what I said... how? Am I somehow stopping you from investigating his death? No. If it bothers you, go look. Personally, I don't care. The guy was convicted of sexual abuse, and a part of a shootout that killed a child. I don't feel that society has suffered a great loss.

[Sunray Breaker]

And that relates to what I said... how? Am I somehow stopping you from investigating his death? No. If it bothers you, go look. Personally, I don't care. The guy was convicted of sexual abuse, and a part of a shootout that killed a child. I don't feel that society has suffered a great loss.
Because you're not giving the man a fair understanding.

First off:

The child had been the victim of a stray bullet in a shootout between Shakur's entourage and a rival group, though the ballistics tests proved the bullet was not from Shakur or any members of his entourage's guns.
What is he guilty of here?

Shakur stated he had fallen asleep shortly after she arrived and later awoke to her accusations and legal threats. He later said he felt guilty for leaving her alone and did not want anyone else to go to jail, but at the same time he did not want to go to jail for a crime he didn't commit. Shakur was convicted of sexual abuse. In sentencing Shakur to one-and-a-half years in a correctional facility, the judge described the crime as "an act of brutal violence against a helpless woman".

Another thing that both parties did not deny is that, days before this incedent:
He had prior relations days earlier with the woman who was pressing the charges against him. She performed oral sex on him on a club dance floor and the two later had consensual sex in his hotel room.

Not to mention nearly all of Shakurs female friends, including his own mother, have attested that he shows the upmost respect towards women. Rape doesn't fit his MO.

And if you try to use his song lyrics against him (as many try to do) as evidence to the contrary, than you could say the same thing about Al Pacino being a Mobster Coke Dealer in real life and not just in entertainment.

It would seem you're making this guy out to be guilty based on no serious evidence. Last I checked it was a plea bargain that landed him in jail for those charges, because he didn't want his friends to get involved.

[funk de fino]

I saw a program on it and saw CCTV footage of Pac and cronies having a fight with a gang member. They reckon it was this lot who offed Pac IIRC.

The non cooperation was not surprising. I cannot remember the program but there didnt sseem to be any woo going on. I am sure it named the dude in the fight.

4 black guys in the attack vehicle who the bodyguard saw.

[Sunray Breaker]

I'd love to look into what is true and whats not. You guys will sit here and debunk totally unimportant crap like big foot and moon landing hoaxes, but when it comes to the cold case investigation of a prominent black leader (for his time, despite his crimes) you seem completely uninterested. I'm sorry...

I'm just suprized that people, who normally love to debunk murder CT's like MLK, JFK, Malcom X and even stupid stuff like...Mike Carradine Murdered by illuminati, crap...But you won't even bother to address the evidence in this case?

I've already done my fair share of investigating this, I'm asking JREF what they know/feel (fact wise) about the murder itself.

But instead, you guys basically just respond by saying...."GOOD RIDDANCE".

[Sunray Breaker]

I saw a program on it and saw CCTV footage of Pac and cronies having a fight with a gang member. They reckon it was this lot who offed Pac IIRC.

The non cooperation was not surprising. I cannot remember the program but there didnt sseem to be any woo going on. I am sure it named the dude in the fight.

4 black guys in the attack vehicle who the bodyguard saw.

Thank you sir, this is the kind of discussion I wanted to have, not some closed minded opinion of "well he was a gangsta rapper, so whatever, what do you expect?

Well Martin Luther King was a revolutionary on the front line of a changing and violent political climate, what do you expect?

See how that doesn't sound right? Pac wasn't just a thug you know, he did a lot for his community and for the young black panthers. He was very outspoken about the problems his people faced. He deserves more respect than that.

[Sledge]

Because you're not giving the man a fair understanding.
I'm not obliged to. I'm not a cop, I'm a private citizen. I'm allowed to not give a crap when a convicted criminal gets shot.

Look, you asked why people aren't posting. As someone who'd read what you posted, I answered a question that applied to me. What more do you want?

[Sunray Breaker]

I'm not obliged to. I'm not a cop, I'm a private citizen. I'm allowed to not give a crap when a convicted criminal gets shot.
Of course you are and that's why I'd expect only those who give a crap to even bother answering my questions...Opinions (yours, and mine) are rather pointless in this forum without evidence to back them. That's why I presented what I knew about the case and asked for folks here to elaborate based on what they know...not how they feel.

Look, you asked why people aren't posting. As someone who'd read what you posted, I answered a question that applied to me. What more do you want?

Someone to address the possibly "woo", inconclusive, but highly suspicious, evidence I presented. That's all I wanted.

[Sunray Breaker]

I saw a program on it and saw CCTV footage of Pac and cronies having a fight with a gang member. They reckon it was this lot who offed Pac IIRC.
Yes...I believe (though I need to check my sources, this was their immediate response to a robbery attempt on tupac and his crew. I do recall them being possible suspects

The non cooperation was not surprising. I cannot remember the program but there didnt seem to be any woo going on. I am sure it named the dude in the fight.
I need to look into this, because this is what I'm reffering to. They have a name and CCTV footage of this man, but he was never brought up on possible charges?

4 black guys in the attack vehicle who the bodyguard saw.
The bodyguard made another film about this, I'm going to look into his claims to. Thank you for approaching this thread more respectfully than some others. To those who don't care about this CT, there's plenty of debunking elsewhere to be done, please don't waste my time. Serious or incredibly hilarious replies welcome, but random "who cares" comments are going nowhere.

[Juniversal]

I'm not obliged to. I'm not a cop, I'm a private citizen. I'm allowed to not give a crap when a convicted criminal gets shot.

Look, you asked why people aren't posting. As someone who'd read what you posted, I answered a question that applied to me. What more do you want?Ah...the "just a criminal" meme. Simply because you've been convicted of a crime means you have no depth to your soul and are worthless (straw man I know..and don't care). That's exactly the sentiment MANY have. That's the mentality our prison system has and it works well as a revolving door for repeat offenders. Incarceration rather then rehabilitation.

Also, Lupe is an amazing lyricist, I put him on the same level as Bob Dylan. He's very calm, cool and collected, incredibly smart and evokes some deep emotions...

Liek the lyrics to this song for instance, where he personifies the ghetto itself, as if he we're a solitary character, bragging about the damage he's done to his own people...

.......He's definatley talented. I always appreciate creativity (which is what's sorely lacking from much of current hip-hop). I'm also a big Nas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHHdrzU4P0) fan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMn2cCBwH18) (especially his older material) for lyrical prowess lol.

Agreed. And furthermore I don't see the violence talked about or that even occurred in hip hop much different than the type of lyrics or incidents you would hear about n blues, rock and roll, country, jazz. Just more of a shock value because it does hail from a faster paced more extreme counter culture. Exactly. And, in part, it really depends on the artist. Some play the role of the bad guy (ala 50 cent) and some play the role of the commentator (ala Nas).

[Mancman]

Tupac had a fight with a crip on the night of his shooting. Some gang members then shot him and he died. Nothing outlandish about that. I find it highly unlikely that Suge Knight could be involved considering he was sat a foot away from Tupac and took a few bullets himself.

[Matthew Best]

Tupac had a fight with a crip on the night of his shooting.

I think the correct term is "disabled person", not "crip".

[Caustic Logic]

Tupac had a fight with a crip on the night of his shooting. Some gang members then shot him and he died. Nothing outlandish about that. I find it highly unlikely that Suge Knight could be involved considering he was sat a foot away from Tupac and took a few bullets himself.

Or is that the best evidence for? Keep your enemies close, huh? I appreciate this is an issue where I can see possibilities of something awry. In fact I'm sure something is, but I can't make time to dig into it to decide what. At the very least I can't vouch for this being a worthless dead end, and I express my support for the question-asking of others, and I'll keep a casual eye on this thread.

:)

[funk de fino]

Yes...I believe (though I need to check my sources, this was their immediate response to a robbery attempt on tupac and his crew. I do recall them being possible suspects

Orlando Anderson i think. I doubt very much if he was the shooter but some of his fellow gang members I would suspect, especially after the witness statement from the security guy.

I need to look into this, because this is what I'm reffering to. They have a name and CCTV footage of this man, but he was never brought up on possible charges?

As I said he would have to be pretty stupid to be the finger on the trigger, so no charges. Even less cooperation if it was the gang as well IMO

The bodyguard made another film about this, I'm going to look into his claims to. Thank you for approaching this thread more respectfully than some others. To those who don't care about this CT, there's plenty of debunking elsewhere to be done, please don't waste my time. Serious or incredibly hilarious replies welcome, but random "who cares" comments are going nowhere.

It's only because I saw the program, I am not really into Pac or any of that stuff. I find it really pathetic that these guys have been cut down over petty crap like it seems it was. I saw another program where Biggie had a gun in his lap, after the first shooting of Pac, when Pac appeared to speak to him. I think the CCTV is why Suge ended up back behind bars, broke parole rules or something. I am almost certain it was nothing to do with Suge from what I have seen so far.

[Sunray Breaker]

The Suge Knight claim seems to be the weakest CT of this whole thing. The one that got me was the guys confessional in prison (that I linked in the OP) and the documentary film itself. Where they tie a corrupt cop into the mix, who apparantly (at least according to the film) had a shrine dedicated to Tupac. His car also (again according to the documentry) matched the vehicle description of the one that shot at him. But this cop was never questioned or brought up on charges.

[defaultdotxbe]

i think the "stop snitching" thing is the primary problem, and in teh gangsta rap culture its far beyond that of other close knit groups, to the point where even the victims of crimes dont cooperate with the investigations

of course this is due to a distrust of a law enforcement garnered from decades of profiling, but not its become a self perpetuating cycle, cops dont put much effort into investing crimes in black neighborhoods because the residents dont cooperate, and thus residents feel the cops dont care and figure why bother cooperating?

as such, they just take vengeance into their own hands and instead of helping the police find tupacs killer they just go kill biggie, and so on and so forth

[Comsat Angel]

I'm somewhat loathe to debate with anyone possessing an avatar as hideous as SB's, but here goes -

- what would George Pelecanos say?

More seriously, is this kind of murder frequent or not in Gangsta Rap? If it is, is there a pattern to the perpetrators? Are the police or FBI ever implicated? If so, how often do such implications either bear fruit or end up ignored? Does the Gangsta Rap community co-operate with murder investigations, ever, even if the victim is seen as a cultural icon? As part of a Big Picture, is the death of Tupac unusual? If he were not a musician, and merely part of a criminal lifestyle, would his death be unusual?

Oh - it's "were" not "we're". Sorry, Spelling Nazi Genes.

[funk de fino]

The Suge Knight claim seems to be the weakest CT of this whole thing. The one that got me was the guys confessional in prison (that I linked in the OP) and the documentary film itself. Where they tie a corrupt cop into the mix, who apparantly (at least according to the film) had a shrine dedicated to Tupac. His car also (again according to the documentry) matched the vehicle description of the one that shot at him. But this cop was never questioned or brought up on charges.

I would not be surprised if Suge arranged the hit on Biggie. Thats not a CT, its what most people think, and is the most likely story. I was on about the Tupac hit. I dont think there is anything outside a gang hit.

Broomfield can be a bit woo'ey. His Kurt one was pretty rubbish.

[Sunray Breaker]

of course this is due to a distrust of a law enforcement garnered from decades of profiling, but not its become a self perpetuating cycle, cops dont put much effort into investing crimes in black neighborhoods because the residents dont cooperate, and thus residents feel the cops dont care and figure why bother cooperating?

as such, they just take vengeance into their own hands and instead of helping the police find tupacs killer they just go kill biggie, and so on and so forth

Damn good point...I can't really argue much with what was said here...

[Sunray Breaker]

More seriously, is this kind of murder frequent or not in Gangsta Rap? If it is, is there a pattern to the perpetrators? Are the police or FBI ever implicated? If so, how often do such implications either bear fruit or end up ignored? Does the Gangsta Rap community co-operate with murder investigations, ever, even if the victim is seen as a cultural icon? As part of a Big Picture, is the death of Tupac unusual? If he were not a musician, and merely part of a criminal lifestyle, would his death be unusual?

Another damn good point. These are definitely the replies I was interested in hearing about. I'm sort of losing interest in this case, as it's been pretty fairly addressed I'd have to say and well...there's much more important things to discuss here. I would like to hear more about what they uncover regarding the re-opened biggie case, as it develops.

I'm trying to think of some new ideas for articles. Not quite sure what to write about next week. This week it was freeman debunking...Any ideas? This is one of the topics I was gonna play with but it woudl seem to be a pretty dead issue. (<---no pun intended)