Segway Sucks

[American]

edited 4-25-03.

[AmateurScientist]

It's hard to argue with the sentiment of your post.

What kills me is the incredible amount of hype surrounding "It" and the hyperbolic claims made about how it would revolutionize the way we travel. For Christ's sake, you'd have thought Dean Kamen had figured out a cheap way to produce a Jetsons-style flying car or a James Bond jetpack. Here's a clue: You "invented" an outrageously expensive scooter. Ha ha ha. You dork.

Next time, do some marketing research before embarking on such outrageous claims. This is a good example of engineering triumphing over consumer wants and needs. The Segway is a solution in search of a problem.

AS

[arcticpenguin]

I am not a Segway fan. They spent umpteen million (I think I read US$100 million but I don't feel like looking it up) to engineer the thing to balance on two wheels. Whereas engineering on a 3rd or 4th wheel would have cost what, about $87.14?

[shemp]

I want one, but I'm waiting until I can get it for those 3 easy payments of $19.95, plus shipping and handling.

Seriously, I've never used one, but I've seen them in use in Manchester, N.H. I have mixed feelings about them. I can see the advantages for certain people like mailmen, cops and deliverymen, but for the general public, it's just another excuse to avoid exercise.

[Fade]

This thing is ridiculous. I live in a very (very) wealthy neighbourhood, and I am damned sure not a single person is going to buy one of these mobile faggotry units.

[Seelie]

Originally posted by Fade
This thing is ridiculous. I live in a very (very) wealthy neighbourhood, and I am damned sure not a single person is going to buy one of these mobile faggotry units.

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/ernaehrung/ernaehrung024.gif

Thank you Fade ;)

Here's a question to those who have read more on the thing than I have ... How much faster is it than an actual brisk walk, if at all?

[Doubt]

Tried one out at a Christmas Party. A woman who is a spokes-person for Delphi electronics had it with her. (Delphi used to be part of General Motor and make the electronics for the Segway.)

Top speed for a “normal” unit is 12 mph. That speed is a software restriction. Max range is 15 miles.

I found it fun to ride. Having seen Americans review, I can conclude two things:

1.) American has a huge homophobia problem. Get over it. A person ridding a Segway looks like they are abusing an old fashion push mower. I don’t know anyone else that thinks it makes people look gay.
2.) American is right about the Segway being an expensive piece of junk.

No one needs this thing. Anything you can do with a Segway can be done better with either a bicycle or a motor scooter. An average road bicycle can be picked up for about $600.00, has really good range if you bring along food and drink, and can move faster than 12 mph with just a little bit of effort.

[American]

Originally posted by Doubt
I don’t know anyone else that thinks it makes people look gay.

So what's it to be in solitary at a supermax facility for 30 years?


UGH. "Whta's ti like to make typ-os?" is what I meant to ask. Never freaking mind....

[xouper]

American: I'm a show-off and a prick, but even I won't touch the stupid s**t that you're selling!Then don't buy one.

[JeffR]

So you're crusing along at 12mph on your Segway, and the wheels hit a curb or rock. Aren't you going to do a spectacular face plant?

[American]

Originally posted by xouper
Then don't buy one.

I'll wait, and if it becomes cool then I'll buy one or a dozen of them. And I'll pretend I've always loved them too.


For now, they are as cool as my PogoBall circa 1985.

The Segway reminds me of the Edsel, which was made by Ford, who was the President that succeeded Nixon, who reopened China, which turned Communist in 1949, which was the year NATO was created, which recently admitted Poland as a member, which was invaded in 1939 by Germany, from which many members fled to the West to work for NASA, which funds an educational outreach program called The Science and Education Gateway (SEGway (http://cse.ssl.berkeley.edu/segway/) )

Or was I thinking of segue?

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by LukeT


Or was I thinking of segue?

Speaking of segues, how do you know when you're really ugly?


...

When a dog closes his eyes when he's humping your leg.

AS

[Lord Kenneth]

I dunno. Some people poo-poo'ed cars, airplanes, and even movies with audio.

I still, however, cannot fathom a use for the scooter. It may make city transportation a bit faster with less effort-- not having to walk-- but hardly revolutionary.

If it weren't for all that damn hype, most of us wouldn't have heard about it or remember it. I'm sure there are a lot of more worthy inventions that haven't caught on.

[JeffR]

I saw my first real live Segway today.

The rider was traveling down a narrow sidewalk (wide enough for two people on foot to pass each other) and a pedestrian was coming toward him. The pedestrian was forced to step off the sidewalk to avoid being run over (assuming the Segway has enough power to actually run over someone). It's official now, I hate those things.

The Segway rider was wearing a bicycle helmet. :rolleyes: At first I thought he might be physically or mentally handicapped, but I got a good look at him as I passed by and I'm pretty sure he was just a big dork. I guess that's a handicap of sorts.

[WildCat]

Originally posted by JeffR
The rider was traveling down a narrow sidewalk (wide enough for two people on foot to pass each other) and a pedestrian was coming toward him. The pedestrian was forced to step off the sidewalk to avoid being run over (assuming the Segway has enough power to actually run over someone). It's official now, I hate those things.
Those things have no business being on the sidewalk. As (if?) they become more common it will just be a matter of time before some cell-phone using Segway-riding bozo runs over a little old lady or child. It's ilegal (at least in most places) for adults to ride bicycles on the sidewalk, so why do they allow these things?

[Fade]

Originally posted by JeffR
I saw my first real live Segway today.
The Segway rider was wearing a bicycle helmet. :rolleyes: At first I thought he might be physically or mentally handicapped, but I got a good look at him as I passed by and I'm pretty sure he was just a big dork. I guess that's a handicap of sorts.

I saw one of them whirring it's way down to the ferry terminal about two weeks ago. It was extremely stupid looking.

[Baker]

This is the first that I have heard of a Segway does any one have an image of it?

[ssibal]

Stupid.....

http://www.domtools.com/~pab/kamens-segway.jpg

[corplinx]

Originally posted by ssibal
Stupid.....

http://www.domtools.com/~pab/kamens-segway.jpg

Don't you just feel like punching that guy?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by ssibal
Stupid.....

http://www.domtools.com/~pab/kamens-segway.jpg

Rich.

Jealous.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by American
(It was hard to pick a forum for this topic. This is the closest I could figure.)

Normally, I'm open-minded about new products. Although most end up "As Seen On TV" for only 3 easy payments of $19.95 plus shipping and handling, sometimes there are fair values to be found.

I've never tried a Segway. Does that make me unqualified to judge it? No, it makes me more qualified. For one thing, qualified reviewers usually have... oh what's the word? Dignity. Riding a Segway strips you of that, as well as all your manhood. If I ever change careers to become a crack whore, I will consider riding a Segway to get around the streets. For this purpose, Segway should really just target the drug-dealer/pimp market. They are making a mistake by targeting the upper class - rich people want to look cool and be less hated by other people. Not be mistaken for lazy prostitutes.

Adding a gyro to an electric wheelchair is not "new technology".

A man who won't tell his wife what he does at work (in designing the Segway) is not "eccentric" - he's a lousy husband.

How do I know that Segway is a joke and is doomed to total failure? The media. A good product will mostly sell itself. When I hear a salesman on National Public Radio (normally a beloved Communist haven that I turn to for a good laugh about why the World Trade Center should not have been built in the path of those poor hijackers who couldn't afford Premium cable and had no choice but to lash out at us) state that "unlike a bike or a scooter, the Segway has no momentum, so it's more like walking!", that's a pretty good clue that Grade-A ******** is being sold. Liberals can change a lot about the world, including the meaning of "Is", but changing the laws of physics is not something they can do. Even when conservative Rush Limbaugh lost half the earth's mass in body weight, the laws of gravity stood firm and we did not careen out of orbit into the cold depths of the outer solar system.

"If only we'd re-design all our roads and building infrastructure, THEN you fools would appreciate our product!"

Sorry Gill, better keep your job at the mattress store. I'm not changing my lifestyle for you. And I do buy useless toys by the buttload. Expensive junk. I'm a show-off and a prick, but even I won't touch the stupid **** that you're selling!

$5000? I live in a fairly nice area. Even here, there are places I could go where small gangs of punks would rip you off that thing in a second and steal it after beating the crap out of you. They wouldn't use it themselves, nor try to pawn it. They'd smash the f*cking thing for fun. Why? "I see yo ass bitch, I gonna stab yo f*ckin throat. You be kissin my shoe muthaf*ck."

That's why. Although I disagree with the coarse language they'd use, I have to concur that a hard fag-stomping is called for if you dare come riding down the street on a Segway. (That's "fag-stomping" as in "a non-sexually motivated act of crime." I am both a gay rights supporter and an activist-ally.)

I'm suuuuure Dean Kamen lays awake at night worrying about what you think. He buys and sells insignificant little turds like you all day long.

[shecky]

Jeeze, he could at least ditch the helmet. Maybe he should take up smoking to compensate a bit. Why haven't they come out with that handlebar-less skateboard-looking version shown in the patent? That would go a long way to extinguishing the nerd factor of the thing.

Of course, it still wouldn't be something Amerikan could get behind. ;)

[davefoc]

I would have posted but I agree with just about everything that was said, although the whole gay tie-in was a little tenuous, and I have nothing to add.

[HarryKeogh]

Originally posted by corplinx


Don't you just feel like punching that guy?

not really. the guy's a genius who has made some great inventions and donates a ridiculous amount of money to charity. sure the segway is a bit dorky but if i was in a wheelchair i'd appreciate one of those stair climbing motorized wheelchairs of his.

have yet to see a segway here in NYC. i see these things as being much better suited to large warehouse operations (amazon.com uses them) than pedestrian travel.

and at 5 grand i'd be scared to take mine out of the house.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by ssibal
Stupid.....

http://www.domtools.com/~pab/kamens-segway.jpg
Isn't that Elizabeth Smart in the background?

[kedo1981]

You people are a bunch of luddite p#ssys; “oh my Kamin didn’t invent something that would whack my wee-wee for me, I’ll be snide and pissy about the segway”.

This article is evidence that the nay sayers are wrong.

“The city of Seattle's six-month Segway experiment went so well that the self-balancing scooters will likely become permanent.
Fleets and Facilities Director John Franklin said yesterday he wants to ask for 10 more next year; the city already has 10.
Franklin said it's hard to beat the transporters, which cost about $5,000 each, don't pollute, require little maintenance and cost about $3 a year to power.
Productivity doubled for water meter readers who usually drive on their routes, Franklin said. There was also a 20 percent increase by meter readers who usually walk their routes.
The productivity gains were so impressive that Seattle Public Utilities is considering redesigning its routes to use more Segways.
City employees who collect coins from parking meters are also testing the Segways. The scooters make it easier to lug the heavy bags of quarters. Seattle Center and Parks and Recreation employees could be the next to test the transporters.”



Kamin is a genius, who has tried to make a better world, if somethings he invents aren’t as monumental as you people think then invent something better.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by kedo1981
Productivity doubled for water meter readers who usually drive on their routes, Franklin said. There was also a 20 percent increase by meter readers who usually walk their routes.
The productivity gains were so impressive that Seattle Public Utilities is considering redesigning its routes to use more Segways.

Seattle could redesign its routes so that those meter readers who usually drive could walk.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by kedo1981
Y
“The city of Seattle's six-month Segway experiment went so well that the self-balancing scooters will likely become permanent.
Fleets and Facilities Director John Franklin said yesterday he wants to ask for 10 more next year; the city already has 10.
Franklin said it's hard to beat the transporters, which cost about $5,000 each, don't pollute, require little maintenance and cost about $3 a year to power.
Productivity doubled for water meter readers who usually drive on their routes, Franklin said. There was also a 20 percent increase by meter readers who usually walk their routes.
The productivity gains were so impressive that Seattle Public Utilities is considering redesigning its routes to use more Segways.
City employees who collect coins from parking meters are also testing the Segways. The scooters make it easier to lug the heavy bags of quarters. Seattle Center and Parks and Recreation employees could be the next to test the transporters.”

Could you please point out which of those tasks specifically require a Segway and could not be accomplished by a better-designed, more conventional scooter which would probably cost less than $1K?

[Baker]

Originally posted by ssibal
Stupid.....

http://www.domtools.com/~pab/kamens-segway.jpg

He looks like he could be one of Jerry’s kids.

[kedo1981]

By conventional I’m guessing you mean a gas powered scooter because an electric one would be “unconventional”.

Pollution from exhausts “big no-no in Seattle”

Noise

Cost to power it “Segway is about 3 dollars a year”

I’m thinking that the meter-readers aren’t getting off the Segway to read the power (water) meters.

Cut and paste this link

http://www.cityofseattle.net/fleets/docs/segway.pdf

Originally posted by kedo1981
By conventional I’m guessing you mean a gas powered scooter because an electric one would be “unconventional”.

Pollution from exhausts “big no-no in Seattle”

Noise

Cost to power it “Segway is about 3 dollars a year”

I’m thinking that the meter-readers aren’t getting off the Segway to read the power (water) meters.

Cut and paste this link

http://www.cityofseattle.net/fleets/docs/segway.pdf

Is your power meter and water meter out on the street or on the sidewalk next to your mailbox?

How much is a bicycle? Not five grand, that's for sure. And pedalling is great exercise. And they require no power plants to charge them up, so you save three bucks a year there. And you can put a basket on them to carry your bag of quarters, if you are a parking meter collector.

[schplurg]

JeffR:
So you're crusing along at 12mph on your Segway, and the wheels hit a curb or rock. Aren't you going to do a spectacular face plant?
I'm still waiting for an answer to this question. It looks like a "broken nose and teeth" just waiting to happen. I don't think I'd feel safe riding like that, with both feet next to each other (as opposed to a skateboard with one in front of the other for balance etc).

I agree with whoever said that it's a solution looking for a problem. Some kind of electric scooter would work fine for meter readers, if they're really that lazy. How does Seattle justify paying so much money for these things just so their lazy-ass public employees don't have to exert themselves? Or DID they pay for them? No wonder why we Americans are so fat (well the rest of you are anyways ;)). Gawd are we lazy or what?

Kind of silly for power meter readers. The meters are usually up by your house, not near the street. The readers could only scoot from house to house on the sidewalk - maybe 100 feet at a time - then walk up to the house to read the meter. As it is now, they walk across your front yard as a shortcut to go house to house, which is probably faster anyways :p

The technology, though not groundbreaking, is pretty cool. The Segway is neat, but I don't see the advantage of it over any other scooter, or a bicycle. I think similar gyro tech could be used for some really useful things...what I'm not sure.

How about a ladder that never tips over? Or a no-spill coffee mug for your car? :D

[Number Six]

I don't know if the Segway will turn out to be useful but IMO Kamen has already justified his whole existence by inventing those wheelchairs. I could hardly believe it when I saw how those things work. It's amazing. Something like that would make a big difference to a small minority of people who already have enough crap to overcome. He deserves a medal for that (that's just a figure of speech).

As far as how useful the Segway will be I think the larger problem is how towns and cities are set up. Regardless of whether you bike or use Segway or walk the problem is that it's often hard to use any of those things in lots of places. I was reading an article the other day about how some urban planners are trying to make cities and suburbs more walkable. It said that three out of every four trips under one mile are travelled by car. Some people are lazy and prefer to drive but then again a lot of time people have to drive because walking isn't an option due to how things are laid out, having to cross busy roads, etc.

I remember once when I went on a job interview in Cincinnati. Right across the street from where I interviewed was a large apartment complex. It should have been easy to live there and walk to work. But the road separating the two was so heavily travelled that you'd have to drive. You literally had no choice but to drive to work even though you lived about a tenth of a mile away. It was ridiculous. Someone needs to have a little more foresight when they plan how things are going to be laid out.

[Badger]

Every time Segways come up, I'm reminded of an old MAD magazine article in which egg shaped white people were using scooters inside their houses to move from room to room, while a, skinny oriental glared, hungrily, at them from across the sea. (not politically correct, but hey, it's what comes to mind.)

My question is "what's wrong with Rollerblades?" They make an off road version of 'em too.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/beachinlineskates/rolcoyalskat.html

[Luciana]

I wish my grandma had one!

Honestly, when Segway starts selling it, I'll make her test it. She can walk, but not much because of her knees, and she has always enjoyed the outdoors. She is living now in a small city so I don't see the Segway as a) a threat to her security in terms of crime, b) no problems with sidewalks, traffic, because streets are mostly empty. She certainly could afford this.

They claim that it's extremely easy to balance yourself in one of these things. So, for the elderly, it might be fine.

I don't see why a healthy and young person would choose Segway over walking. And it's still too pricey for the benefit provided.

[Lemastre]

Originally posted by kedo1981
“The city of Seattle's six-month Segway experiment went so well that the self-balancing scooters will likely become permanent.
Fleets and Facilities Director John Franklin said yesterday . . . [p]roductivity doubled for water meter readers who usually drive on their routes. . . There was also a 20 percent increase by meter readers who usually walk their routes. How does running his meter-reading route faster benefit the meter-reader? Right now, the scooters are fun to use, but the meter-readers may find that running their routes faster means they are expected to add other tasks to their schedule or that some readers are laid off. Looks like a union/management conflict in the making.

[Earthborn]

She can walk, but not much because of her knees, and she has always enjoyed the outdoors. But you think she can stand upright longer than she can walk? I think it would be harder, and not just for people with bad knees.

If you look at people standing at a busstop, you'll notice that they constantly adjust their feet, or walk around a little. They never just stand straight. For most people, including myself, walking is easier than standing still. I think that's the biggest design flaw of the Segway: in almost every situation in society where people are supposed to stop moving for more than five minutes, there are chairs to sit on. I think that's true for a reason.

Just imagine a doctor's waiting room without chairs. :)

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by kedo1981
By conventional I’m guessing you mean a gas powered scooter because an electric one would be “unconventional”.

Sorry, that's not what I meant. by 'conventional' I meant "having at least two wheels which are not co-axial".

Adding a third or fourth wheel should make the thing more stable. It won't be as cute though. I don't pay for cute.

Like Schplurg I am also interested in failure modes. What happens to your Segway when it has a loose battery connection? The failure modes do not look good.

As for Lnery's grandmother, I am not sure if it would work out that well. The Segway relies on the user's sense of balance. You lean left, it goes left. Put someone with a diminshed sense of balance on what and the results may not be as intended.

[kedo1981]

The Segway doesn’t rely on a since of balance to stay upright, but if a person can’t stand by themselves I doubt that a high tech toy would help. Wait why do people use walkerd?

Since the article didn’t address anything but the segway, who knows what else they tried

What happen when car break down, world no end, same with Segway, ugggg.

[arcticpenguin]

Dubya falls off a Segway
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030612/170/4dnhg.html&e=1

[arcticpenguin]

Second California (City) Bans Segway Technology (http://fox40.trb.com/news/ktxl-052903segway,0,6120861.story?coll=ktxl-news-1)

That would be Sacramento

[kedo1981]

Ya know I don’t want to come across as being queer for the Segway; it’s an interesting over priced toy that may someday be useful. But I gota ask what’s your beef with it?
The article you linked to doesn’t say it’s banned anywhere in it, it says some handicapped people are worried about confronting a segway on the sidewalk. You added the word city to your link to make it seem like the text said something it didn’t; does that make your posting dishonest?
The picture link on the other hand looks like a badly done photoshop hoax.
In frame one “Dubya” is on the segway he is also holding a (tennis racket??) and there is woman on the left in a blue shirt touching his elbow and there is a golf cart also on the left, also in the upper left of the frame is a pine tree branch; you can plainly see the stone work on the wall behind him (dubya)
In the second frame Dubya is still holding the racket but it looks like he is leeping over the Segway, not falling off it, the perspective of the photo is shifted about 2 feet to the right, the woman, golf cart and tree branch are no longer visibly, and a child’s bike and a shrubbery can be seen on the right but the segway is moved to the right (the wheels go forward and backward not left/right).
Third frame: the tennis racket is gone and his hand looks like it was partly erased away.

It looks a lot more like he is playing tennis

[zakur]

President tries his hands on a Segway (http://www.msnbc.com/news/926145.asp)

ARRIVING AT the oceanside home Thursday, Bush quickly shed the suit and tie for running shorts, a white T-shirt and sneakers. Using a tennis racket, he whacked an orange ball for dog Spot to fetch and was still clutching the racket when he boarded a Segway.

The Segway went down on the president’s first attempt, but he stayed on his feet with a flying leap over the machine. Undeterred, he got on again. His father, former President Bush, climbed on a second Segway and they cruised around the driveway at the estate at Walker’s Point.

The president’s twins, Jenna and Barbara, and former first lady Barbara Bush all took turns on the Segways.More news stories about the Segway "attack"(;)) here (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=&q=segway+bush).

[zakur]

The Sacramento City Council is currently considering a ban on Segway's (on sidewalks), but has yet to make a decisions.Segway scooter to get hard look by City Council (http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/5839422p-6805880c.html)

Just weeks before it hits the sidewalks of cities nationwide, the long-ballyhooed Segway Human Transport looks to be rolling into controversy.

San Francisco officials voted last month to ban the high-tech machine from that city's sidewalks out of fear its users might knock over pedestrians.

A Sacramento City Council committee today is to consider adding the Segway scooter to the list of wheeled devices banned from the pedestrian K Street Mall.

And several Sacramento advocates for pedestrians, seniors and disabled people say they think the device should be limited to bike lanes in the streets.

The city's top traffic engineer said he also is concerned about sidewalk safety, and wants to hear what people say.

"We're not jumping like San Francisco did to a complete ban," engineer Marty Hanneman said, "but we need to talk about this: Should they be allowed on our sidewalks?"

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by zakur
The Sacramento City Council is currently considering a ban on Segway's (on sidewalks), but has yet to make a decisions.

I am not surprised.

I was a Transportation Engineer for several years working for local governments in a two county area and when I saw the Segway and heard Dean K. talk about how it could be used on sidewalks, in malls, etc. I knew he was heading for real trouble if that was his marketing plan.

Just about every city in the country has laws about forbidding that forbid one to actually ride bicycles, skateboards, rollerskates, and other such things on sidewalks and in public stores, so I expected similar treatment of the Segway.

By the way, I imagine that George W. is a bit upset at those photos of him falling off the Segway as well!

[JeffR]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
Dubya falls off a Segway
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030612/170/4dnhg.html&e=1 I think I see a market opportunity - Segway training wheels.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by kedo1981
Ya know I don’t want to come across as being queer for the Segway; it’s an interesting over priced toy that may someday be useful. But I gota ask what’s your beef with it?
The article you linked to doesn’t say it’s banned anywhere in it, it says some handicapped people are worried about confronting a segway on the sidewalk. You added the word city to your link to make it seem like the text said something it didn’t; does that make your posting dishonest?
The picture link on the other hand looks like a badly done photoshop hoax.
In frame one “Dubya” is on the segway he is also holding a (tennis racket??) and there is woman on the left in a blue shirt touching his elbow and there is a golf cart also on the left, also in the upper left of the frame is a pine tree branch; you can plainly see the stone work on the wall behind him (dubya)
In the second frame Dubya is still holding the racket but it looks like he is leeping over the Segway, not falling off it, the perspective of the photo is shifted about 2 feet to the right, the woman, golf cart and tree branch are no longer visibly, and a child’s bike and a shrubbery can be seen on the right but the segway is moved to the right (the wheels go forward and backward not left/right).
Third frame: the tennis racket is gone and his hand looks like it was partly erased away.

It looks a lot more like he is playing tennis
1) I have explained my reasons for questioning the Segway technology and lobbying strategy earlier in the thread and in other threads. I think it's stoopid to spend millions and millions to engineer a metastable transport device when more stable designs already exists.

Could you please point out which of those tasks specifically require a Segway and could not be accomplished by a better-designed, more conventional scooter which would probably cost less than $1K?

I think Segway's lobbying is an indication that the device is not selling itself. Why should it be treated any differently in regulations than other electric bicycles or scooters?

2) You wonder why I say "banned" when it wasn't banned and then

3) You acknowledge that my link title is the same as that of the article linked. Duh. That explains that. I added the word 'city' because the title looked ungrammatical without it, I assumed a copywriting error. "Second California bans Segway technology" - does that make sense to you?
My intent was clarity not dishonesty. What was your intent in bringing up this pointless point?

4) As for the photos of Bush, they're not mine. Take it up with Reuters.

[corplinx]

I find it interesting some news outlets are reporting the president "fell", since he didn't. Its almost as if they are trying to create a new gerald ford.

[EdipisReks]

i wish police would actually enforce the ban on bicycles on sidewalks. there is nothing worse than having to dodge people going 20 mph on their stupid bike. the segway can't be as bad as that.

[Silicon]

Hello folks,

I know I'm opening up myself to ridicule by making this my first post here after years of lurking.

I have a Segway.

Yes, yes. I must be insane. ;-)

It seems like our President got on one without turning it on. Oops.

Anyway, they are just getting out there now, and folks are using them. I'm using mine to commute to work.

Yes I know there are cheaper scooters. Hands up everyone who bought the cheapest car they could find, rather than the nicest one they could afford. Plus I'd fall off those little-wheeled scooters anyway, they're really tough to balance on. I've gone hundreds of miles without falling off my Segway. Besides, I like going slow, and the slower you go on a scooter, the less stable it is. Segways go really slow really well.

Anyone down on the Segway, I say try it for a couple of days first. Actually get out there in public on one (not 5 minutes as a demo). You might see it goes places and moves more elegantly than anything currently out there.

There's no substitute for experience. Be a skeptic and try it!



EDIT:

Oh, Artic Penguin, about your previous post about failure modes. The Segway has two batteries which work in parallel. Should one unit fail, the other will power the Segway while it slows to a system stop, remaining balanced while the rider dismounts. There are tons of redundancies on the system. I haven't had any problem in hundreds of miles of use.

[kedo1981]

Ok I’ll concede that the pics are legit.
But where does it say (in the article you posted) that it was banned?

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by kedo1981
Ok I’ll concede that the pics are legit.
But where does it say (in the article you posted) that it was banned?
In the title of the article. I conceed that the title may have been incorrect (as well as ungrammatical) as explained above by zakur.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by corplinx
I find it interesting some news outlets are reporting the president "fell", since he didn't. Its almost as if they are trying to create a new gerald ford.
Nah, Jerry was much smarter, experienced, co-ordinated (remember the peanut incident), and statesmanlike.
And trying to read something into the use of the word "fell" is pushing it.

[WildCat]

You ungrateful bastards. Dean Kamin has invented a device that will revolutionize transportation as we know it. All he needs is for several million people to shell out $5000 and buy one. Sure, it's slower than a moped and not as practical, but is this reason enough to deny Dean his dream? ;)

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by WildCat
You ungrateful bastards. Dean Kamin has invented a device that will revolutionize transportation as we know it. All he needs is for several million people to shell out $5000 and buy one. Sure, it's slower than a moped and not as practical, but is this reason enough to deny Dean his dream? ;)
I have my own dream. It involves getting several million dollars out of Nigeria. Send me your bank account access numbers now. Help fulfill a dream!

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by corplinx
I find it interesting some news outlets are reporting the president "fell", since he didn't. Its almost as if they are trying to create a new gerald ford.

Will the communist media stop at nothing to discredit our leader and lord president Bush? He didn't fall, he stumbled. Why would you say he fell when he stumbled? Because the communists have complete control of you and are trying to undermine the greatest leader in the free world, that's why.

[Doubt]

Originally posted by Silicon
Hello folks,

Yes I know there are cheaper scooters. Hands up everyone who bought the cheapest car they could find, rather than the nicest one they could afford. Plus I'd fall off those little-wheeled scooters anyway, they're really tough to balance on. I've gone hundreds of miles without falling off my Segway. Besides, I like going slow, and the slower you go on a scooter, the less stable it is. Segways go really slow really well.


$600.00 for a reasonable bicycle, $5000.00 for a Segway.

What makes the Segway a better value then a bicycle? Which is more practical?

[xouper]

Doubt: $600.00 for a reasonable bicycle, $5000.00 for a Segway. What makes the Segway a better value then a bicycle? Which is more practical?May also depend on how much Preparation H® a person uses per year.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Silicon
Hello folks,

I know I'm opening up myself to ridicule by making this my first post here after years of lurking.

I have a Segway.

Yes, yes. I must be insane. ;-)

It seems like our President got on one without turning it on. Oops.

Anyway, they are just getting out there now, and folks are using them. I'm using mine to commute to work.

Yes I know there are cheaper scooters. Hands up everyone who bought the cheapest car they could find, rather than the nicest one they could afford. Plus I'd fall off those little-wheeled scooters anyway, they're really tough to balance on. I've gone hundreds of miles without falling off my Segway. Besides, I like going slow, and the slower you go on a scooter, the less stable it is. Segways go really slow really well.

Anyone down on the Segway, I say try it for a couple of days first. Actually get out there in public on one (not 5 minutes as a demo). You might see it goes places and moves more elegantly than anything currently out there.

There's no substitute for experience. Be a skeptic and try it!



EDIT:

Oh, Artic Penguin, about your previous post about failure modes. The Segway has two batteries which work in parallel. Should one unit fail, the other will power the Segway while it slows to a system stop, remaining balanced while the rider dismounts. There are tons of redundancies on the system. I haven't had any problem in hundreds of miles of use.

I'm jealous. I think they are way cool! How far do you go to work each day?

[Silicon]

Originally posted by Doubt


$600.00 for a reasonable bicycle, $5000.00 for a Segway.

What makes the Segway a better value then a bicycle? Which is more practical?


Yeah, hmm.. I never thought of that, I must be stupid. I guess they're not the funnest thing I've ever ridden in my life after all.


I never said it was a better value than a bicycle. I never said it was more practical than a bicycle.

I also know more than 5 people who own $5000 bicycles. I don't give them sh*t about being impractical.

I'll ask you something, doubt. What kind of car do you own? Is it a Yugo? How about your house? I hope you don't live in any more than one-room, because that's not practical. Is your tv larger than the smallest screen you could buy? Did you buy a cd player, because records cost less. Do you have a dvd player instead of a vcr?

In my life, I have some things that are nicer than the bare minimum. Yes, a bike is cheaper.

This is different from a bike. Hard to imagine why, if you haven't ridden one for a few days, but it IS different. I'm not going to say better or worse, I'm going to say different. Is it $4500 different? Maybe not for you, but for me it is.

I'm not likely to ride my bicycle to work in a suit and tie, but then again I don't wear a suit and tie to work. ;-)

A motorcycle is different from a bike as well, and Motorcycles cost between $4000 and $25,000, so there you go. Motorcycles aren't my thing. I don't think you're going to motorcycle owners and insinuating they wasted their money when a bicycle is so much cheaper, and a car is so much more practical. But you may be, who knows.

There are always the people on line who ask this basic question, as if they have the right answer, and I'm going to say, "Yeah, hmm. I never thought of that, I must be stupid!"

I wonder if there's more than a small streak of ludditism in that. Why is it necessary for folks to "prove" that it was all just hype?

Okay, it was all hype. Yes, it's all fake, the Segway really sucks. Now leave me alone to ride it in peace, with a huge smile on my face.

Because it really rides like nothing else on the planet. I'm serious.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


I'm jealous. I think they are way cool! How far do you go to work each day?

They are very very fun to ride.
I go 14 miles round trip to work and back a day. I charge it at work for the ride home.

I get commuter points at work for riding an electric vehicle.

I know the pollution is shifted to our power-plants, but at least it's less than I would be polluting if I was powering a two-ton hunk of metal those 14 miles.

We GOTTA get cleaner power-plants.

[WildCat]

Originally posted by Silicon

We GOTTA get cleaner power-plants.

Nuclear? ;)

[subgenius]

Originally posted by WildCat


Nuclear? ;)
Wind.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by subgenius

Wind.
Sure. Sail-powered scooters.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Silicon


They are very very fun to ride.
I go 14 miles round trip to work and back a day. I charge it at work for the ride home.

I get commuter points at work for riding an electric vehicle.

I know the pollution is shifted to our power-plants, but at least it's less than I would be polluting if I was powering a two-ton hunk of metal those 14 miles.

We GOTTA get cleaner power-plants.

Is that 7 miles on the sidewalk, or in a bike lane or what? Which city?

[xouper]

arcticpenguin: Sure. Sail-powered scooters.http://windskate.com/images/h4crs81f.JPG
Image courtesy of http://windskate.com/history/04.htm

[Silicon]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


Is that 7 miles on the sidewalk, or in a bike lane or what? Which city?

San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles.

I take a combination of bike lanes, sidewalk and streets, depending on traffic. I choose the route that gets me the quietest streets, and travel in the street when I can. I go slower on the sidewalks on the large, fast streets.

[Fade]

We GOTTA get cleaner power-plants.

My power plants have 0 emissions! :p

[Doubt]

Originally posted by Silicon


I never said it was a better value than a bicycle. I never said it was more practical than a bicycle.

I'll ask you something, doubt. What kind of car do you own? Is it a Yugo? How about your house? I hope you don't live in any more than one-room, because that's not practical. Is your tv larger than the smallest screen you could buy? Did you buy a cd player, because records cost less. Do you have a dvd player instead of a vcr?

In my life, I have some things that are nicer than the bare minimum. Yes, a bike is cheaper.

This is different from a bike. Hard to imagine why, if you haven't ridden one for a few days, but it IS different. I'm not going to say better or worse, I'm going to say different. Is it $4500 different? Maybe not for you, but for me it is.


There is practical and then there is ridiculous.

5000/600 = 8.33

So your Segway cost 8.33 times the cost of a reasonable bicycle that does not need to recharge every 15 miles and can do much higher speeds than your Segway. Sorry, but there is no added value that would justify that kind of cost ratio to me. I currently own 4 bicycles and the most expensive one would have cost me $1400.00 if I had not picked it up used. (A triathlon racing bike.) My total investment in bike hardware is less than one Segway.

If the Segway is to catch on, it must be practical. How much will new batteries cost when they wear out? Bet they are done for in about two years.

Answering your (probably rhetorical) questions:

What kind of car do you own?

Ford Ranger. I do use it to haul things. A Yugo would not meet my needs.

How about your house? I hope you don't live in any more than one-room, because that's not practical.

Practical is based on needs. I live in a one bedroom apartment that looks like a used sporting goods store.

Is your tv larger than the smallest screen you could buy?

My TV is a Sony Trinitron that I picked up used in 1983. The brightness setting is not quite right, so I should replace it soon. It has been this way for over 5 years. 17” screen.

Did you buy a cd player, because records cost less. Do you have a dvd player instead of a vcr?

I do not own a DVD yet and my stereo is an old Marantz from 1984. The CD player is from 1988 and is broken. I still own some mid 80’s vinyl. (The turn table still works.)

The Segway is not a practical vehicle for most people. It shows no signs of commercial success. Have fun buying batteries in a few years. It is fun to ride, but that thrill would not last. It is a solution looking for a problem.

[Silicon]

Hmm,

Sounds like Ted Kazinski's cabin would be more practical for you.

Toodles!


EDITED TO ADD:


Ah, that was too flip an answer. I'll be less smug here.


I frankly don't care if Segway goes out of business. I'm not an investor. I bought an item I enjoy the hell out of. I could buy three sets of batteries at the bankruptcy liquidation, and that'll hold me just fine for the next 20 years. The battery technology is generic enough that I could get more made. Hell, I can still get new needles for old Victrolas 100 years later, I think I could get some batteries!

If the company flops, so what? I have a collector's item. A curiosity at least as cool as a DeLorian or a Tucker.

The technology will hit the public domain in 15 years anyway. Dynamic stabilization isn't going away, ever. More and more machines will use it, as will tons of knock-off Segways. It's really awesome technology. From now on, moving machines can balance themselves upright.

I AM interested in WHY people with no Segway AND no investment in the (not publicly traded) company CARES if the company sinks. I don't care, why do you? Actually, more than CARES, rather *wants them to fail.*

Other than a gleeful "I told you so." I already said I'm willing to stipulate: Segway is a failure. It was all hype.

You can declare victory now. But I get to keep my Segway ;-)



Hmm... I guess I wasn't much less smug. Sorry.

[Doubt]

Originally posted by Silicon
Hmm,

Sounds like Ted Kazinski's cabin would be more practical for you.

Toodles!

*snip*

Hmm... I guess I wasn't much less smug. Sorry.

You went from being smug and on to defensive.

I spend money on things that I use and things I like to do. For $5000, I can buy a new bike, and reasonably priced new Kayak, and still have money for a ski trip out west. Or I can buy a Segway…….

[Samus]

While I'm not a fan of the Segway, is it necessary to be so harsh towards it? Let Capitalism do the work for you; if the Segway is to flop, then I say let it flop.

I'll never own one, not here in upstate NY where it snows half the year. But hey, if someone owns it and likes it, more power to them!

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by dwb
While I'm not a fan of the Segway, is it necessary to be so harsh towards it? Let Capitalism do the work for you; if the Segway is to flop, then I say let it flop.

I'll never own one, not here in upstate NY where it snows half the year. But hey, if someone owns it and likes it, more power to them!
If they were just trying to sell them to consumers, I would be willing to let it flop or not. Now they are lobbying governments to grant a special dispensation to their brand of electric scooter only for use on sidewalks, and trying to use political muscle to convince government bodies to buy large quantities of scooters. The image of attack troops riding across a battlefield on a metastable two-wheeled scooter strikes me as beyond ridiculous, it is potentially disastrous.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by Doubt


You went from being smug and on to defensive.


No.

I was defensive from the beginning. If I wasn't being defensive, I wouldn't have posted to a thread titled "Segway Sucks" in the first place. I'd have just let it ride out. :-)

Happy Kayacking.

[LTC8K6]

So why are they better than all of the other electric scooters currently availble for a lot less money? Here is one of many:

http://www.electric-scooters-electric-scooters.com/program/fixedPriceMod.cfm?do=detail&productID=41&categoryID=8

[voidx]

Hmm a couple comments and questions.

I agree with Arcticpenguin's sentiment of the lobbying going on. Nothing in the Segways design shows it to be a more efficient mode of transportation than bicycles. It should therefore not be given special treatment and should have to follow all the same standards as bicycles, which includes in pretty much every major city I know as not being allowed to ride on pedestrian sidewalks. In smaller centres this might not be a problem, but in large metropolitan area's the little bit of extra width of the Segway would make it unmanagable in heavy pedestrian traffic. Also can the Segway stay upright while not moving? Just a question, if so then that would be better suited for heavy pedestrian traffic.

The other issue I've kind of seen mentioned and don't know much about is did the Segway in fact receive government funding for its R&D? If so then I also think this is a legitimate complaint. I'm fairly certain bicycles and other such comparisons that have been made did not receive large goverment funds for their development. Again, if someone could point me to information stating this for sure it would be appreciated.

I agree with the sentiment of let it stand on its own merits, the market will determine if it lives or dies. But it should receive no special treatment in how it is regarded as a wheeled vehicle on pedestrian sidewalks. While the market will make it thrive if its popular, it doesn't always mean its safest. Lots of people may come to like them and their proliferation might increase on city streets, but that doesn't automatically mean their better suited to heavy pedestrian walkways as their designed now. If they want special considerations for the Segway, then in depth studies should be conducting showing their advantages in different volumes of pedestrian traffic.

[xouper]

Silicon: If the company flops, so what? I have a collector's item. A curiosity at least as cool as a DeLorian or a Tucker.Interesting point. I owned a DeLorean and I didn't care that the company went out of business. I didn't care that the car was being slammed by those who didn't know anything about it. In the 60,000 miles that I owned it, it was by far the coolest car I've ever owned. Anyone who thinks DeLoreans suck (or are impractical or less efficient or cost too much), can go suck a rope as far as I'm concerned. Likewise for people who ignorantly and pompously slam the Segway.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by LTC8K6
So why are they better than all of the other electric scooters currently availble for a lot less money? Here is one of many:

http://www.electric-scooters-electric-scooters.com/program/fixedPriceMod.cfm?do=detail&productID=41&categoryID=8

Yeah, the main difference is that I'd fall on my ass in ten minutes on one of those things. I've gone hundreds of miles on my Segway without falling.

Unlike our president, I always make sure the Segway is turned on before I get on it.

The other thing about that is that it's not legal to use on the sidewalk here. I'm also not sure I'd be for legalizing that, as it's a bit too fast and squirrelly a vehicle for the sidewalks, and it's inherently quite unstable at slow speeds, due to the small tires.

The problem with vehicles like the City Bug is that they gain stability when they gain speed. Not sure that's a good recipe for safety when mixing with pedestrians.

Yes, the Segway can stand upright while stopped, as well as turn in place. I have no difficulty travelling at walking pace in heavy crowds, with never a bump or a jostle. I've seen Disneyland use Segways in deep crowds, shoulder-to-shoulder in a crowd with literally hundreds of guests, with no problems.

When I return to less-crowded environments when the view is clear, or bike lanes, or a small residential street, I travel at a bicyclist pace.

Segways can be used safely in crowds. This I know from experience. Whether people will actually use them in a safe manner or not, that is a question facing local legislators. It'll have to be weighted against the safety statistics of all the other things pedestrians face on sidewalks and crossing streets and driveways. So far, with thousands of Segways on the sidewalks for the past 3 months, there has not been one pedestrian injury. Not that it's impossible, but it's a good safety record so far.

There's also a study of over a hundred Segways in a small town in Florida, so they are studying extremely high per-capita Segway densities on the sidewalks. These are higher capacities than we're ever likely to see in the real world.

The Segway did not recieve government funding for it's R&D, as far as I know. The technology was developed partly for the stair-climbing, self-balancing wheelchair that DEKA designed for Johnson & Johnson.

[voidx]

Yeah, the main difference is that I'd fall on my ass in ten minutes on one of those things. I've gone hundreds of miles on my Segway without falling.
Well now, lets be fair here. You'd hardly fall on your ass. All you'd have to do would be to put your feet down on the sidewalk and you wouldn't fall, especially at a speed of 12mph. What I will give you is that the Segway appears to be stable at very low speeds, something scooters, and even bicycles have trouble with, so that is certainly an advantage.

I'll go look around myself, but in case anyone has one already, any idea specifically what kind of lobbying is being done on behalf of the Segway, and where it can be used?

Also all the bickering over Dean Kamin gets out of hand on both sides. Yes he shouldn't be called an idiot for in peoples opinions of making a useless product and wasting millions developing it. But he also should not be given a free pass because of what he has developed in the past. Whether you like him or not should not preclude you from taking him to task if he makes a goof or a dud in future. This same arguement came out with Michael Moore and his portraying of Heston and the NRA in bowling for columbine. Many people agreed with the overall message of the film, but just didn't like the apparently misleading ways Moore used video footage and times and dates of NRA meetings to make them look more insensitive. Many people I know like Moore and his show and films and kind of wrote off this fact. You can like him, and what he stands for, but it should never bother you to call him to task when he is out of line. Happens to Mr. Randi all the time in his weekly columns, and he always acknowledges when he's made a goof.

[IPFreeley]

I didnt know much about the hype before it was announced, but I think the SHT is fairly useless.
I understand there was claims made that it could revolutionilize cities and such? yea, right! Just imagine hundreds of these things in today's shopping malls especially when busy. Instant gridlock! Time to set up miniature driving lanes and traffic lights.

There are so many other choices for light,quick and cheap(er) transporters. Bicycle costs $100 on up. What about a razor scooter or even electric ones? Less than $500. You can get a 50cc gas scooter for $2k and go 3x faster than a segway, be street legal and have farther driving range, yet it can still be pushed and stored in small places. Even a used motorcycle is cheaper than a SHT.

Think about this. People are basically very lazy! If the general populace was clamoring for cheap and light transportation, wouldnt we all be riding skateboards/bikes/scooters/minibikes by now?

[Silicon]

They aren't explicitly legal in Canada yet. They're not sure if it classifies as an electric bicycle or anything else.

The lobbying for the Segway in most states of the US has resulted in a law that is generally like this one which just passed in Oregon:

http://pub.das.state.or.us/leg_bills/pdfs/hb2434.pdf

The main jist of it is that Segways are legal and subject to similar rights and responsibilities as other objects travelling on the sidewalk as provided in the state vehicle code, but that localities, municipalities and counties can further restrict their usage, including complete prohibition.

They usually also instruct that Segways must yield the right of way to all pedestrians, and set out some safe guidelines for usage, such as requiring a light, reflectors, sometimes a bell.

[Silicon]

Originally posted by IPFreeley
I didnt know much about the hype before it was announced, but I think the SHT is fairly useless.


Useless for you, useful for me.

Different strokes.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by IPFreeley
I didnt know much about the hype before it was announced, but I think the SHT is fairly useless.
SHT? Care to buy a vowel? :)

[LTC8K6]

I don't see how the SHT is $4,000+ dollars better than the electric scooters already out there.

Being able to sit has got to be a huge advantage for a lot of folks.

I would buy one of these first:

http://www.electric-scooters-electric-scooters.com/program/fixedPriceMod.cfm?do=detail&productID=103&categoryID=8

[arcticpenguin]

Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos meet 'Ginger' (http://hbsworkingknowledge.hbs.edu/pubitem.jhtml?id=3533&t=innovation)

Bezos liked it, Jobs didn't.

[arcticpenguin]

bump

* ouch! *

[Iamme]

I'll buy one...when they put a tent over the top of them and have 5-disc cd changer inside + heater/A/C.
:D

You KNOW why people buy these things. They are a physics defying looking gizmo. People go for stuff like this. Especially techno geeks. "Look Ma...no third wheel! How do ya think I'm balancin? Cool, eh? Can do 12 mph...go forwards, backwards, and parallel park."

[Silicon]

Getting my software patch tomorrow. They're doing this pro-actively.

If anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.

Though I think ArcticPenguin just bumped this thread to do a "Nelson" HAAAA-haaaa!

Yes, Arctic, we know that you don't need one. Penguins just belly-slide on the ice.

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Doubt
Tried one out at a Christmas Party. A woman who is a spokes-person for Delphi electronics had it with her. (Delphi used to be part of General Motor and make the electronics for the Segway.)

Top speed for a “normal” unit is 12 mph. That speed is a software restriction. Max range is 15 miles.

I found it fun to ride. Having seen Americans review, I can conclude two things:

1.) American has a huge homophobia problem. Get over it. A person ridding a Segway looks like they are abusing an old fashion push mower. I don’t know anyone else that thinks it makes people look gay.
2.) American is right about the Segway being an expensive piece of junk.

No one needs this thing. Anything you can do with a Segway can be done better with either a bicycle or a motor scooter. An average road bicycle can be picked up for about $600.00, has really good range if you bring along food and drink, and can move faster than 12 mph with just a little bit of effort.

An average bicycle really costs around $600.00??? Just an ordinary, push on the pedals bicycle? God, where have I been?

[American]

Well I got mine last year and I love it. I have nothing bad to say about it, except I wish more people would give it a chance. Hopefully it will catch on.

[MoeFaux]

Wow, I'm really surprised that people here aren't more fond of the Segway. It's really wonderful.
A magician friend of mine has one, and he brought it backstage one night after another friends show. We all rode it around backstage, and then out in the parking lot. It's nuts. I remember he had all the special keys, and the red one made it go incredibly fast. I nearly had a heart attack watching Mr. Faux ride off at top speed on it.
It's really intuitive, you just know what to do once you're on it. I, however, wasn't that great on it, but that's just because I have this quirk about falling, and I wouldn't let myself relax.
I love the science behind it. I've got a picture somewhere of me on it, if anyone wants to see.

[Shinytop]

Individuals buying electric 3 or 4 wheel scooters are paying circa $2000 for the cheap ones. Add the vehicle lift or get one that can go 8 MPH (the fastest I have seen) and the cost rises to $2500-3000. I don't know how Segways will best be used by the private sector but from reading the above posts I can only say I am glad none of you have a handicap or limitations on walking.

[Silicon]

American,

You getting the upgrade this weekend?

Personally, I wanted the upgrade, as it tames the power-assist a little bit too.

Also, they're going to be giving demo-rides on the P-series. And the $50 gift certificate from Amazon won't hurt either!



Moe,

You said it right. Was it Asimov who said that significantly advanced technology was indistinguishable from magic?

Whoever said it, this was the first thing in a long long time that I've seen that has that effect. It's the only thing I've ever owned where strangers LITERALLY slack-jaw when they see it. That's a great feeling, and it hasn't gone away yet.

Good to see this thread coming around. Read back and you'll see my very first post on this forum. It was quite the den of negativity. At least some folks not completely hostile to it, Penguin notwithstanding.

[MoeFaux]

Moe,

You said it right. Was it Asimov who said that significantly advanced technology was indistinguishable from magic?

Whoever said it, this was the first thing in a long long time that I've seen that has that effect. It's the only thing I've ever owned where strangers LITERALLY slack-jaw when they see it. That's a great feeling, and it hasn't gone away yet.

Good to see this thread coming around. Read back and you'll see my very first post on this forum. It was quite the den of negativity. At least some folks not completely hostile to it, Penguin notwithstanding.

I remember hearing all the hype about it, back when it was refered to only as "IT". Man, when I saw it on the Jay Leno show, with Jay getting right on it and going around the studio, I was really impressed.
I'd like to have another opportunity to ride one; I want to get better on it. The Segway is definitely amazing. You're a very lucky man to have one.

[Silicon]

Message me next time you're in Los Angeles. That goes for all Jrefers. I give rides out all the time. Over 100 people so far, and nobody's fallen off yet!

[peptoabysmal]

I think I'll stick to riding my Ducati. But it looks interesting.

[kookbreaker]

I was at a trade show last week and the SegWay booth was right across from us. Got to ride one around a tiny bit. Kinda fun. Not $5,000 fun though.

The crew were surprisingly realistic about the product's future. The company was caught between the extreme hype of its inventors and those who make it a life crusade to bash the thing (such as most of the city of San Frasisco).

In truth the thing has a classic problem of being a solution in search of a problem.

I suggested Segway jousting. But they'd heard it all before.

[Silicon]

In a world where a run of the mill Harley Davidson is $20,000 and up, I think the Segway IS $5000 fun.

I've had people cross 3 lanes of traffic to pull me over to ask questions. I've had guys in Lamborghini's ask me how I like my ride. I've been checked out by a HELECOPTER. I've had women introduce themselves to me that wouldn't look out of place on the cover of Vogue. I've had entire restaurants full of people stand up and gather at the window to watch me ride past. At work, I've gone from a new employee to someone who 30 year veterans and vice-presidents know by name. Tuesday, I had one of the greatest Television and movie producer/directors of all time asking for a ride. A couple weeks ago, I met Ron Howard and his father while riding to work. The week before, I met a woman in her 50's doing flips on a frontyard trampoline... it seems she was the former world trampoline champion (who knew there was such a thing?!?)

Every ride on a Segway is an adventure. You never know who you're going to meet. Every trip to work, I make at least 5 new friends. People from all walks of life. Old folks seem to like it best. I know a lot of older folks who ride Segways rather than give in to the convelescent scooter before they're ready. Bicyclists and teenagers are the worst, but for every "You'll get fat!" from a spandex biker, I get 200 waves, thumbs ups, toots of the horn and smiles from young ladies. Best 5G's I ever spent.

I have a friend that just dropped that on a TV set. Sucker. He's gonna get fat!

[MoeFaux]

Just to shake it up a little...
this is a great fun thing that also gets a lot of attention:
http://www.wizwheelz.com/
My friend has a single and he also has a tandem. Man, when we go out on the tandem we get all sorts of looks. It's wonderful.

[Silicon]

Hey!

The new Segway is cheaper than that tandem! LOL!

That looks like a lot of fun. There's a recumbent rider on a Segway group I'm on. The spandex bikers call him lazy too.

His comeback is "Yep, I'm so lazy I've only gone 20 miles today!"

[nightwind]

Well, the Segway is now a rich person's toy and not probably any more useful than a bike or a motor scooter in getting around.

Interestingly some of the criticism and skepticism sounds like what was heard when Henry Ford came out with his invention.

I think it pretty amazing that anyone can go out and invent anything, so I am not going to criticize it. It's just another thing that may lead to better and more useful "things".

Sure there is hype, but it is just like anything that anyone is selling, they tell you it will revolutionize everything. Ha.

But personally I would prefer a rocket belt.

[nightwind]

I am thinking though, that my Schwinn may need to be recalled, it wrecked itself twice last month. :rolleyes:

[American]

Originally posted by Silicon
American,

You getting the upgrade this weekend?

Personally, I wanted the upgrade, as it tames the power-assist a little bit too.


I was talking about the George Foreman Grill, the Greatest Grill In The World. I don't own a Segway.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Fade


My power plants have 0 emissions! :p

What, you don't crap?

[xouper]

nightwind: But personally I would prefer a rocket belt.I would too, if it had more than a 30 second range. And given that running out of propellant at 50 feet can be dangerous to one's health, I suspect it requires far more situational awareness than a Segway or bicycle.

Whatever happened to the SoloTrek?
http://www.solotrek.com/devhistory.html

[Eos of the Eons]

Didn't they just recall the darn things for being dangerous when their batteries run low? There was a guy who fell off and hit his head ya know.

[Tormac]

kookbreaker wrote
I suggested Segway jousting. But they'd heard it all before.



Now that is the best use for one that I have heard :).

A woman had one for a while at the university where I work. It was kind of neat, but as it is it is defiantly over hyped. If I have anything against "IT", it was all the hype for what, over two years IIRC. I can remember hearing on NPR how "IT" was going to be more important to than the internet or nuclear power. As it stands

Tormac's beater mountain bike > segway.

At least here in Middle America, I can see $500 segways becoming popular (assuming that they can lower that price that much one day). Unfortunately what they will be popular for is not replacing automobiles, but replacing walking. The professor that has one on campus parks her cady escalade, unloads the segway, and then drives the segway around campus. In more urban settings the segway may reduce vehicle emissions and congestion, but I can just as easily see it add to more congestion as people use it instead of walking, and "It" becomes one more excuse as to why one has to drive a huge SUV to haul their segway to work so they can ride it to lunch down the block.

But if organized jousting tournaments for segways start, I may change my mind. I wonder how much work it would be to crack segway's governor software. If Hondata can crack Honda's ECU codes, flash segway hop ups can't be too far away
:)

[Eos of the Eons]

http://www.segway.com.edgesuite.net/images/t_recallb.gif



Hazard: Under certain operating conditions, particularly when the batteries are near the end of charge, some Segway HTs may not deliver enough power, allowing the rider to fall. This can happen if the rider speeds up abruptly, encounters an obstacle, or continues to ride after receiving a low-battery alert.

http://www.segway.com.edgesuite.net/support/recalls/recall_001.html

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Tormac

But if organized jousting tournaments for segways start, I may change my mind. I wonder how much work it would be to crack segway's governor software. If Hondata can crack Honda's ECU codes, flash segway hop ups can't be too far away
:)
maybe you could program it to take 'evasive action'.

[Tormac]

I've already invisioned hooking a big capasitor to one for a sudden voltage boost (rather like NO2 I hope).

I had not considered programing evasive manuvers into one, but since the gyroscope is computer controled, it could open up lots of opertunity.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Tormac
I've already invisioned hooking a big capasitor to one for a sudden voltage boost (rather like NO2 I hope).

I had not considered programing evasive manuvers into one, but since the gyroscope is computer controled, it could open up lots of opertunity.
Could give the mechanical bulls a run for their money...

Ride the bucking Segway, win a teddy bear!

[Tormac]

articpenguin wrote

Ride the bucking Segway, win a teddy bear!

kookbraeker (and others) wrote

In truth the thing has a classic problem of being a solution in search of a problem

I think you need to patent you idea, then get in contact with the manufacturer's Artic! You may have stumbled on the true use for "It". This could be better than bumber cars or nitros powered go-peds! :roll:

[arcticpenguin]

Here's your start: Build your own balancing scooter (http://www.tlb.org/scooter.html)

[Ralph]

I make my living as a hospital pharmacist. To me..Segway=job security.

I think we've reached the point where someone confined to a wheelchair gets more exercise than a "normal" person.

Combine this thing with a few other modern conveniences---lawn tractors, leaf blowers, dog walking services (walk your own dog dammitt), and my personal favorite.....the drive-up window (it's bad enough you're having jelly donuts or sausauge mcmuffins for breakfast--at least you can walk a whole 40-50 feet to get the thing) you can now get thru a whole day without exerting yourself..

This'll guarantee a limitless supply of strokes,diabetes,heart attacks,high colesterol, depression............and the medication to treat these things since most people aren't interested in making life-style changes that might PREVENT these things.........

My services will allways be in demand.....

and all for only $5000........

[Silicon]

Better exercize than riding in a car, which is what I replace with a Segway.

Transportation != exercize. At least it hasn't been since about 1900.

Lazy people will be lazy without a Segway, in fact it's lazier to just sit in a car. A lazy person won't buy or use a Segway, as they are more effort than taking a car, and they require you stand and actively ride them.

Everyone who's called me lazy while I was on my Segway was sitting on their fat ass while they did it, or stuffing their face with a big fat lard & cheese breakfast burrito.

Ralph,

If you have a remote control for your television set, you are one lazy so-and-so. What could possibly be lazier than that!??! You can't even be bothered to get up off your lay-z-asschair to turn the channel?

If you do your laundry in a washer, instead of building up arm-muscles using a washboard and tub, you are a tub of lard.

If you have ever driven somewhere under 5 miles with no passengers and no cargo (1/2 of all American car trips), you are the problem. Flabbo, thy name is Ralph.


(or you could do any of those things PLUS work out and eat right)



I know hundreds of Segway owners. I have a Segway myself. You completely don't get it. Segways aren't for lazy people. Segways are for active seniors who can't walk far, and environmentalists or others who want to get around without a car.

Over 60% of Segway owners are 50 years old or older. I know dozens of people with health problems like MS who ride the Segway because they can't walk more than a block. Now they can rejoin their family on hikes and outings. They can go to the park again, they can walk their dog for the first time in 10 years. I know a woman who has MS who could, for the first time, cheer her daughter on while she ran a marathon. I know disabled Segway riders who rode their Segways in bike-a-thons for MS, only to be called lazy by holier-than-thous like you.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Silicon
Better exercize than riding in a car, which is what I replace with a Segway.

Transportation != exercize. At least it hasn't been since about 1900.

Lazy people will be lazy without a Segway, in fact it's lazier to just sit in a car. A lazy person won't buy or use a Segway, as they are more effort than taking a car, and they require you stand and actively ride them.

Everyone who's called me lazy while I was on my Segway was sitting on their fat ass while they did it, or stuffing their face with a big fat lard & cheese breakfast burrito.

Ralph,

If you have a remote control for your television set, you are one lazy so-and-so. What could possibly be lazier than that!??! You can't even be bothered to get up off your lay-z-asschair to turn the channel?

If you do your laundry in a washer, instead of building up arm-muscles using a washboard and tub, you are a tub of lard.

If you have ever driven somewhere under 5 miles with no passengers and no cargo (1/2 of all American car trips), you are the problem. Flabbo, thy name is Ralph.


(or you could do any of those things PLUS work out and eat right)



I know hundreds of Segway owners. I have a Segway myself. You completely don't get it. Segways aren't for lazy people. Segways are for active seniors who can't walk far, and environmentalists or others who want to get around without a car.

Over 60% of Segway owners are 50 years old or older. I know dozens of people with health problems like MS who ride the Segway because they can't walk more than a block. Now they can rejoin their family on hikes and outings. They can go to the park again, they can walk their dog for the first time in 10 years. I know a woman who has MS who could, for the first time, cheer her daughter on while she ran a marathon. I know disabled Segway riders who rode their Segways in bike-a-thons for MS, only to be called lazy by holier-than-thous like you.


Yes Silcon----I have a remote control. I also play video games and watch TV on the weekend.....I also eat a fair amount of pizza & ice cream.

I also lift weights twice a week----20 rep squats--deadlifts--chins--dips.

I also take a couple of 5.5 mile hikes per week wearing a 45 lb pack walking 2 dogs.

I have 2 other "intense cardio days"during the week......rope skipping,running intervals, and hitting a heavy bag.

The 5 days when I don't hike 5 miles--I take the dogs out for a 45 minute walk.

I almost always do errands in town on either a bicycle---or by walking.

I shovel my driveway---with a snow shovel

I rake leaves..with a rake.

I do try to practice what I preach.

At any rate---I didn't mean to imply that owning a Segway meant you're lazy. That's an individual thing. If you really use it instead of a 7 mile drive to work....I think that's great.

I think you'd have to agree though---lack of physical activity is one of the biggest causes of all the health problems (obesity-cardio-vascular disease-diabetes) we are seeing today.

I think SOME people who buy a Gegway--will replace walking with it......probably the ones who can least afford to do so..............

[Silicon]

Originally posted by Ralph



I think you'd have to agree though---lack of physical activity is one of the biggest causes of all the health problems (obesity-cardio-vascular disease-diabetes) we are seeing today.

I think SOME people who buy a Gegway--will replace walking with it......probably the ones who can least afford to do so..............


And I'd think that you'd have to agree that carbon monoxide emissions from automobiles is one of the biggest problems -cardiovascular disease, asthma, global environmental destruction - that we are seeing today as well.

Or at least you'd concede that traffic congestion is one of the main problems our urban centers face.

Or perhaps you'd concede that thousands of people a year are killed by the automobile.

Or maybe you'd concede that 20 percent of senior citizens can't walk more than a block or two because of their age.


I've never had a person NOT in a car tell me that I was gonna get fat on a Segway.


I think that SOME people... MOST people who would do better on a Segway than a car, WON'T.

And they won't bike either.

But most of them WILL take the opportunity to snicker in smug superiority of a guy on a Segway.


I can't tell you how many disabled friends I've had tell me that a person called them lazy. They actually kind of took it as a compliment, because it meant for the first time in years, they didn't look disabled!


I look at it as relatives.

Laziest way to get to work: Driving.
Next laziest: Taking the train.
Next laziest: Taking a Segway.
Next laziest: Riding a bike.
Not lazy one bit: Running, wearing ankle weights and skipping rope while pulling a wagon full of horseshoes!

I'm sure when the bike came out, people called it the lazy way of getting around, just pedaling and coasting.


But see, I have a Segway, and so I know what it is like to DEAL with a Segway. You imagine that it replaces walking.

I have to ask, WHOSE walking, and where are they walking now, that they would trade it in for a Segway, and WHY are they walking now instead of taking a car, like the 60% of American car trips?

If there was somewhere where I'd be doing some walking, I STILL walk. Most Segway owners do, unless they're disabled. Why? Because it's EASIER to walk than to DEAL with a Segway.

Let's say I was given the choice between walking to the corner market, or Segwaying there, or driving there.

If the trip is short enough to walk, and too close to drive, I'd walk, because it's EASIER than going to the garage, unplugging the Segway, pulling it out, starting it up, then riding to the store, pulling out the bike-lock, finding somewhere to lock it up, dealing with my helmet, getting the grocieries, loading them into the small bag on front, unlocking it, taking it home, putting it back in my garage, plugging it in.... yatta yatta yatta. I know lots of people who own them in Manhattan. That's a lot of stairs to get them up and down, but they save a pretty chunk in cab fare.

People without a Segway imagine that they magically appear under your feet, and that they don't take any effort. They don't for a second imagine that they require hauling them up or down stairs, or getting them in or out of cars. They imagine that they take zero effort from the rider, and that everywhere a person could walk, including in the house and out to the car, you could do on a Segway. They imagine that you could Segway right from the bed to the lay-z-boy, and right to the kitchen, and then downstairs and segway right into the car, and then open the door of the car and segway right to the office cubicle.

No way. Segways are heavy things to lift. They don't disappear when you don't need them anymore, you have to lock them up, and you have to lift them and push them around. Pushing one home when the battery runs out is something that you've never considered, but I deal with it all the time. You just can't leave it in public, now can you?

I bet I'd get LESS excercize if I rode a bike! After all, you've never had to push an 85-pound bike with small, geared wheels that don't free-roll, have you?

They take effort. More than a car does. Riding them takes effort. More than a car. About the same as downhill skiing, if you've tried that.


So why do it?

It's a butt-load of fun. It gets me out in the open, rather than in a glass and steel cocoon. It's at the cutting edge of a great technology. I want to help the problems of pollution and congestion in the city. And I've made a ton of new friends in the community.

[Ralph]

Silicon-----if everyone had the same attitude you did toward these things......I think it would be great.

I certainly have no problem with someone who's phsyically handicapped using one.

As an alternate to an automobile---I can see it in certain situations...NYC, Boston....fine
............but not in Montana for example where it's 30 miles to the nearest whatever.

I just don't think the majority of people who buy one .. will use it the way you do.

Also--working in the health care field......I just see an awful lot of people who think the solutions to their health problems....are a drug. They don't want to make like style changes.

I've been there myself----I used to be a couch potato---smoked--pizza & cheeseburg diet----drugs--- booze---eventually drifting into full blown alcoholism.

I decided I didn't want to die young....or live..but in poor health.

Fortunately--all these problems could be fixed---by changing the way I live. Yes it was hard....and it took years....but it was worth it.

Because of my own experiences---I tend to be less than sympathetic toward those who have the ability to do something about their problems....but CHOOSE not too.

Don't take what I said so personel.....it wasn't aimed at you.......Ralph

[Silicon]

I don't take it personally. You're just uninformed about the majority of Segway riders.

I know hundreds. They aren't doing this to give up walking. Look at the photos of any Segway user group - half are active seniors, half are technology geeks. As a group, they are in better shape than the average American.

Here's an article from the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. It gives a good cross-section of who's riding Segways. These people are the NORM, as far as Segway owners I know. Not the exception.


http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4121714.html



Here's a list of members of a Segway user group. Check out how they use their Segways. I think you'll see that it isn't the pure-evil, fat-making machine folks make it out to be. Some pretty ambitious, active people are riding these.

Individualistic, iconoclastic, downright wierd people too. I see more than one person who wants to create a dance troupe, and one wants to enter the doo-dah parade.

Here's a hint: Folks eager to dance on a Segway are usually people who haven't been physically able to dance in years.

http://www.stlsegway.com/owners.asp

[arcticpenguin]

Silicon,

A serious question: I have wondered whether people with balance or (neuro)motor control problems could safely ride a machine which gets its instructions from the user's balance. It seems like a spasm could send the machine right in front of a truck. You mention that people with MS can successfully use the Segway. Would you care to comment about the use of Segway by people with various such impairments?

Thanks,

[Silicon]

Yes, Arctic.

There are a lot of folks with Segways who have balance problems, walking problems and neuromuscular problems. I myself have seen people with inner-ear problems who can't ride a bicycle get right on a Segway and ride like a pro. I'm not sure why exactly, but if I had to guess...

When you ride a Segway, you yourself aren't really balancing. The Segway has 5 peizo-electric gyros in it, and two attitude sensors. Those function much like the semi-circular canals in the inner ear. Riding a Segway, you don't need to be cognicent of balance really. You merely need to be congicent of your speed, and if you are moving forward or backward. If you are moving forward, and you want to stop, you shift your weight backward. Pretty easy to do, and it doesn't require balance, because you know when you've succeeded -- the machine stops!

The machine also pushes and pulls against you if you lean too far. Holding on to the handlebars, you can feel yourself getting pulled back upright if you stray. It's a feeling that nobody I've met has predicted just by reading about the Segway, but it holds you up.

I'm sure it depends on your disorder. For instance Parkinson's doesn't suffer from spasms, but rather tremors. Perhaps if you had epeleptic-type spasms, you couldn't ride a Segway safely.


I do know that even in the patent documentation for the Segway, it talked about how Parkinson's patients had tremors reduced or eliminated while riding a Segway.


Here's a great discussion from an online Segway user group where a rider with Parkinson's describes how the Segway lessens the tremors, even to the point that nobody stares at him anymore. People don't even notice he has Parkinson's. Later on down, a woman with MS also describes her balance issues when walking, but how she can ride the Segway.



Greetings, I nnow have Segged for about a month and with my Parkinsons I was not able to walk unassisted and stares were frequent. My balance was begining to be a problem also. I now have my mobility and balalnce back while traversing with my HT! I am constaantly besieged with the curious and questions. I am amazed at the product recogntion. It is usually within a minute or two of unloading the HT that someone comments about the"thing I saw on TV". Parkinsons was getting me down, but now I have a large part of my life back. I can rejoin my wife and daughter on their trips to the malls antique shops and flea markets to mention a few.

...

I have found that the tremors have lessened and my balence problems are not an issue while Segging. I had lost my ability to walk unassited. With the HT I can now join my family and not be a burdon to them.

......
When I Seg I "look normal" but when I stop and get off the HT it becomes apparent that I am not "normal".


I can not explain the reason for the reduction in observable tremors. Maybe it has something to do with brain distraction. Maybe someone knows a Neuroligist out there that might be able to explain.



.....


JR - good for you! Isn't it amazing being able to joing in walks with the family again?

I am amazed that my balance problems when walking have not been a problem when Segging. I had thought that vertigo and dizziness would be a problem, but I have not had a single incident in nearly four months of gliding.





Here's the link to this fascinating discussion:

http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4122&SearchTerms=,parkinson

[arcticpenguin]

Thanks.

Take a look at this article: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/03/vibrating.shoes.ap/index.html


The experiment, outlined this week in The Lancet medical journal, found that elderly people showed signs of better balance when they stood on a pair of battery-operated randomly vibrating insoles.

I wonder if it's in any way related to your Segway observations.

[Silicon]

Very interesting.

This is connected with a lot of other white noise studies I've read.

When just about anything information, visible, audible etc, is too faint to pick up, adding white noise can boost your perception. Think of it as adding gamma to the system. Mathematicians and computer scientists know this trick. Interesting that the medical profession is learning it too.

These insoles only work for improving folks perception of the pressure on their feet, such as people with nerve damage or circulation problems. It doesn't solve balance problems that start in the inner ear.

I'm not sure this is the same case as a Segway, because as I said, you don't really do the balancing on a Segway, you are really just standing and holding on, the machine does the balancing.

However, I wonder if a similar system of a vibrating force-feedback wearable kneebands, elbowbands etc would have the same mitigating effect on Parkinson's tremors.... interesting.

[Silicon]

In other Segway news, the I series just had a price cut, it's now $4,495.

The P-series is about to be released, and it'll be under 4 grand. I rode it last Sunday... SWEEET. It moves like buttered silk.


Hey they completed my recall upgrade. Took em 5 minutes. They gave me a nifty hat and Segway pen, and a $50 Amazon gift certificate for my trouble.

Not that I had any trouble with the Segway before. The only way I would have had the problem that the recall fixed was if I was completely disregarding the multiple warnings in the safety manual and the safety video and in my safety training.

But hey, gotta make it idiot-proof, I guess!

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by Silicon
In other Segway news, the I series just had a price cut, it's now $4,495.

The P-series is about to be released, and it'll be under 4 grand. I rode it last Sunday... SWEEET. It moves like buttered silk.


Hey they completed my recall upgrade. Took em 5 minutes. They gave me a nifty hat and Segway pen, and a $50 Amazon gift certificate for my trouble.

Not that I had any trouble with the Segway before. The only way I would have had the problem that the recall fixed was if I was completely disregarding the multiple warnings in the safety manual and the safety video and in my safety training.

But hey, gotta make it idiot-proof, I guess!

Of course they do, and the media loves any news on the recall junk, of course they didn't say anything about how quick it was to 'fix' for gosh darn sakes. Good to see all the positives on it. I know I'll never be able to afford one, and what use would it be in the winter? We get more winter than summer around here.

[arcticpenguin]

____ the Segway; bring on the motorized surfboard (http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/birthof/birthof.html).

[Silicon]

That's gonna make all the surfers fat!


;)

[Valley_girl]

I don't really have an opinion on the Segway, maybe it's a piece of junk, maybe not. I will say that is was seriously over-hyped.

But...

Dean Kamen is very active in getting schoolchildren involved with science, specifically engineering. IMHO anyone who steers kids toward science is doing the world a favor.

He now has unveiled a water filter that is truly amazing. It uses a Stirling engine. It requires next to nothing to power and can produce thousands of gallons of clean water from any water source, no matter how polluted. Check it out...

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.09/kamen.html