911 Audio Debates Thread!

[fourtoe]

Hey all,

I became interested in 911 CT because I love listening to debates. The more debates I listen to, the more I go and look up the topics debated over and that is part of the reason why I started posting on JREF. Googling these topics kept sending me to old JREF threads.

The following are 14 different debates between various debunkers and various Truthers. They all very in quality (content wise), but I think that listening to these debates is a good way of getting people interested in the subject matter.


Richard Gage vs Ron Craig (http://www.checktheevidence.com/audio/911/RichardSyrettShow911TruthDebateRichardGageVsRon%20-%2012%20Nov%202007.MP3)

This debate is pretty good. Ron Craig is an explosives expert and every response he gives to Gage is super concise and simple. Also the moderator was pretty fair, I read here that he was a Truther so I think it was pretty cool that despite his own opinion he stayed pretty neutral.

John Brown vs Kevin Barrett part 1. (http://911underground.com/2007-08-18_Kevin_Barrett_Debates_9-11_Debunker_John_Brown.MP3) and part 2. (http://911underground.com/2007-08-24_Kevin_Barrett_Debate_with_John_Brown_Round_Two. MP3)

I made a thread about this guy John Brown a while back. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds Barrett as annoying as all hell and these mp3s only support that opinion. He says over and over and over that no one will want to debate him and I guess John Brown is the one debunker who he hasn't said should hang for treason.


John Brown vs the entire TM (http://www.radiodujour.com/mp3/20080508_richardgreene_scholarsdebate.mp3)

John Brown again, only this time it is him against Steven Jones, Richard Gage and Tony Szamboti. And those are just the Truthers that I remember, I think there were more.


David Ray Griffin vs Chip Berlet (http://911underground.com/2004-05-26_David_Ray_Griffin_Debates_Chip_Berlet_on_Democr acy_Now.MP3)

I think I know the reason why DRG is so sketchy about debating opponents of his claims and that reason rhymes with zip Chevrolet. Berlet does an awesome job in this debate. I caution people, this debate was back in 2004 and THE EXACT CLAIMS THAT ARE BEING USED STILL TO THIS DAY, are spewed out by DRG for the first part of the mp3.


Jack Beacon vs Chip Berlet (http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/beaconberlet911.mp3)

I don't think Berlet does as well in this debate as he did in the one with DRG. He kind of trails off on a tangent about antisemitism. Also it just seems like Beacon is there to promote his event he is going to have later on.


David Ray Griffin vs George Monbiot (http://911underground.com/2007-11-29_David_Ray_Griffin_Debates_George_Monbiot_on_Jam es_Whale_Show.MP3)

The other reason why DRG is so smarmy yet scared of debating comes from across the pond. Monbiot is a British journalist and he seriously devastates Griffin in this one.


Michael Berger vs Matthew Rothschild (http://911underground.com/2006-09-28_Michael_Berger_Debates_Matthew_Rothschild_on_Di no_Costa_Show.MP3)

This one I haven't listened to in a long time. I think Berger comes across as the 'winner' in this debate. Berger who is not nearly as prominent as the other top TM folks is probably the best debater the TM's got. I'm surprised he isn't more known.

Michael Berger vs. SezMe part 1. (http://www.911truth.org/911truthmedia/Audio/The-debate-hour_hour1.mp3) and part 2. (http://www.911truth.org/911truthmedia/Audio/The-debate-hour_hour2.mp3)

Michael Berger again, this time against JREFer SezMe. Berger still comes off the way he does in the previous debate only this time I don't think he comes off as the 'winner'. SezMe keeps reminding Berger about how many people are needed in order to pull 911 off and this just makes Berger look like he is digging himself further and further into the ground. Especially when Reggie (the host) starts sighing when he knows that Berger just made a claim that would require hundreds more people to be in on the conspiracy.

Shyam Sunder vs Graham Macqueen (http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/macqueen-sunder-8-25-2008.mp3)

I feel bad because I don't recall too much about this debate. It seemed to have gone nowhere for me. I mainly put this one up because it features Sunder. I'm gonna listen to all these again to give more proper reviews at a later date.


Steven Jones vs Leslie Robertson (http://911underground.com/2006-10-26_Professor_Steven_E_Jones_Debates_Leslie_Roberts on.MP3)

This one is pretty well rounded. Both Jones and Robertson are civil and it seems like a discussion more than a debate. You still get a great audio source of Robertson stating what he really thinks about the collapses.


Kevin Ryan vs Michael Shermer (http://911underground.com/2007-11-08_Kevin_Ryan_Debates_Michael_Shermer_on_Thom_Hart mann_Program.MP3)

Poor Michael Shermer. Shermer did awful in this because he just doesn't know a lot about the specific arguments of 911. He is a skeptic in general and can use common sense to show a person how 911 CT are absurd but we all know that that isn't enough to get a CT like Ryan shaking in his boots.


Loose Change vs Popular Mechanics (http://www.bringyou.to/911DEBATE1.mp3)

Avery and Bermas take on those evil yellow journalists at PM. The PM people sound like they know their stuff but the two issues that I have with this debate is that they were always on the defensive, they never got to ask Avery or Bermas any questions. Also it is super short.


Loose Change vs Mark Roberts (http://www.bringyou.to/911DEBATE2.mp3)

I think we all know about this one. Do I need to say the specifics?

Mike McConnell vs 3 Cincinnati Truthers part 1. (http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/CINCINNATI-OH/WLW-AM/MCCONNELL011908HR2.mp3) and part 2. (http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/CINCINNATI-OH/WLW-AM/MCCONNELL011908HR3.mp3)

McConnell is the epitome of talk radio hosts but he does pretty good against three Truthers. He uses some cheap arguments against the Truthers but I think over all he did a great job. It is also kind of funny listening to him getting frustrated with the Truthers for not knowing how to act on a talk radio show.

------

There are a couple more that I know of that I couldn't find today so I'm going to try and update this list as much as possible. And there were a lot in general that I didn't post because they aren't available as mp3s.

I would also LOVE it if any of you guys want to post reviews of these debates or links to other debates in any format and review them too if you want.

I also should thank all the sites that I mooched these links from. A lot of them were actually Truther sites so I commend the TM for being a great resource to find mp3s files of debates.
Also, the McConnell debate I found at JREFer Walter Ego's site (http://911vids.blogspot.com/) which has A LOT of great videos and links to other 911 related stuffs.

p.s. Let me know if any links are dead or something, too!

[UNLoVedRebel]

Adam Larson vs. the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3255001444185766630#)

[fourtoe]

Adam Larson vs. the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3255001444185766630#)

What happened to part 1?

I like how in the related videos section there are all 911 Truth related videos and one 2 minute video of two girls French kissing...

[Trojan]

Gave v. Craig

Gage sounds like one of those infomercial hosts that just keeps plugging in dvd and website -- good lord, and truthers like this guy :boggled:

[fourtoe]

Gave v. Craig

Gage sounds like one of those infomercial hosts that just keeps plugging in dvd and website -- good lord, and truthers like this guy :boggled:

If you haven't listened to it all then you'll LOVE the very end of the show.:D

[CompusMentus]

Hey thanks for these KF. They are now on my iPod and I'll have a listen later.

The last couple of evenings I've been enjoying listening to some leading truther lights tearing their hair out about "disinformation" within the TM ranks. If you come across any media files related to that subject please let me know.


Compus

[fourtoe]

Hey thanks for these KF. They are now on my iPod and I'll have a listen later.

The last couple of evenings I've been enjoying listening to some leading truther lights tearing their hair out about "disinformation" within the TM ranks. If you come across any media files related to that subject please let me know.


Compus

You mean like bickering amongst Truthers? Here are a couple links that look promising, but I haven't listened to them:

Jonathon Moseley vs Alex Jones and Jim Fetzer (http://911underground.com/2006-08-17_Alex_Jones_and_Jim_Fetzer_Debate_Jonathon_Mosel ey.MP3)

I think this is pretty funny. I don't listen to Alex Jones all that much, I didn't know that he did the whole Bill O'Reilly "fair and balanced" claim.

http://911underground.com/2007-01-17_Professor_Steven_E_Jones_Trying_to_Talk_SENSE_i nto_Fetzer.MP3

http://911underground.com/2007-11-27_Anthony_Lawson_Sets_Fetzer_Straight_on_So-Called_Video_Fakery.MP3

Now I kind of want to listen to these ones. I heard one where Killtown was using Wag the Dog as evidence to support his bizarre claims...I don't think I should post that one though.

[CompusMentus]

You mean like bickering amongst Truthers? Here are a couple links that look promising, but I haven't listened to them:



Thanks for these.

Call me strange but I just love to listen to the whacko infighting.

BTW the Mike McConnell interview with the 3 stooges was really good. One of the truthers he was savaging sounding uncannily like Peter Lorre, hilarious.


Compus

[fourtoe]

Thanks for these.

Call me strange but I just love to listen to the whacko infighting.

BTW the Mike McConnell interview with the 3 stooges was really good. One of the truthers he was savaging sounding uncannily like Peter Lorre, hilarious.


Compus


Haha, yeah I think that is the best way to describe that guy's voice. I just love McConnell telling them to talk into the microphones all the time, how they keep handing him papers and he yells, "We're doing a radio show! You can't just hand me something that is 20 pages in the middle of a show!"

[Brainster]

To clarify, the reason I have refused to debate Kevin Barrett is not his statement about how I should be hanged. It is because of his Holocaust Denial. BTW, I figured out how I can get you the debates I participated in; get a G-Mail account and I'll send them to you.

[fourtoe]

To clarify, the reason I have refused to debate Kevin Barrett is not his statement about how I should be hanged. It is because of his Holocaust Denial. BTW, I figured out how I can get you the debates I participated in; get a G-Mail account and I'll send them to you.

Sweet! I'll pm you my gmail account. Thanks!


Yeah Barrett is a pretty despicable guy. I can imagine many reasons why people wouldn't want to debate him and him being right on 911 sure as hell isn't one of them.

[CompusMentus]

Hah!

Just listened to the Alex Jones + Fetzer vs Moseley "debate". Is Moseley still around? First I've heard of him.

Alex Jones' statement that WTC7 fell at the "speed of an apple" was a real highlight brightening up my dull rainy Sunday morning. Mucho funno.

I'm surprised that Fetzer didn't have a brain embolism during this show. I could almost see his big bulging red chops as he blew a fuse with Moseley. Great stuff knife.


Compus

[Edx]

David Ray Griffin vs George Monbiot (http://911underground.com/2007-11-29_David_Ray_Griffin_Debates_George_Monbiot_on_Jam es_Whale_Show.MP3)

The other reason why DRG is so smarmy yet scared of debating comes from across the pond. Monbiot is a British journalist and he seriously devastates Griffin in this one.


Link no worky?

[fourtoe]

Link no worky?


Crap this is off to a great start...What you can do is right click the link and copy and paste it into a new page and it will show up.

I need to find replacement links or talk to the webmaster.

[CompusMentus]

Crap this is off to a great start...What you can do is right click the link and copy and paste it into a new page and it will show up.

I need to find replacement links or talk to the webmaster.



I had probs too with the links, eg some of them resolved to a blank google page for some reason. I solved it by right click/copy link location and pasting that to a download manager. That way I could save the media direct to my system instead of listening to each in turn.


Compus

[RedIbis]

KFC: I may not agree with your annotations on the debates I have heard, but this is a great idea, to have a thread which simply lists the more prominent ones that have occurred.

Like you, I'm a fan of the art of debate.

Here's a classic. Charles Goyette v. David Coburn from Popular Mechanics. I'd be interested to hear what you think about this one.

Let's see if this link works:
http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/A003I060823-am-c3.MP3

If that doesn't work here's a site with the link to the interview:

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/19083/Charles_Goyette_eats_Popular_Mechanics_9_11_myth_e xpert_for_breakfast

ETA: On a more recent listen, I will concede it's not really a debate. It's more like a mugging.

[fourtoe]

KFC: I may not agree with your annotations on the debates I have heard, but this is a great idea, to have a thread which simply lists the more prominent ones that have occurred.

Like you, I'm a fan of the art of debate.

Here's a classic. Charles Goyette v. David Coburn from Popular Mechanics. I'd be interested to hear what you think about this one.

Let's see if this link works:
http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/A003I060823-am-c3.MP3

If that doesn't work here's a site with the link to the interview:

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/19083/Charles_Goyette_eats_Popular_Mechanics_9_11_myth_e xpert_for_breakfast

ETA: On a more recent listen, I will concede it's not really a debate. It's more like a mugging.

Yeah calling these debates sometimes is stretching it a little. I think I have heard this one before as well. Is it the one where the host won't stop talking about how suspicious it is that they were able to get the hijackers DNA?

[RedIbis]

Yeah calling these debates sometimes is stretching it a little. I think I have heard this one before as well. Is it the one where the host won't stop talking about how suspicious it is that they were able to get the hijackers DNA?

Well, he's asking Coburn how they got hijacker DNA to match what they found.

[ScottyMate]

Thank you very much for posting these links! I too love listening to these debates, and I'm always on the lookout for ones I might have missed.

It was through this site I found the brilliant HardFire discussions featuring the infamous cardboard box Gage demonstration

Many lulz with that one. (Gravy you were great!)

Cheers!


Scott.

[fourtoe]

Well, he's asking Coburn how they got hijacker DNA to match what they found.

Yeah that one. I agree that even if it seemed like the odds were stacked against Coburn, he just didn't do a good job in general.

I'm interested in what you think about the DRG vs Chip Berlet debate. What did you think of that one?

[fourtoe]

Thank you very much for posting these links! I too love listening to these debates, and I'm always on the lookout for ones I might have missed.

It was through this site I found the brilliant HardFire discussions featuring the infamous cardboard box Gage demonstration

Many lulz with that one. (Gravy you were great!)

Cheers!


Scott.

Oh yes. The host and Gage seemed like they were waiting the whole time just to do the cardboard box thing. They kept interrupting Gravy even when he made claims that Gage really should have answered and got away with changing the subject instead.

[RedIbis]

Yeah that one. I agree that even if it seemed like the odds were stacked against Coburn, he just didn't do a good job in general.

I'm interested in what you think about the DRG vs Chip Berlet debate. What did you think of that one?

I'll check it out later today when I have more time.

[CompusMentus]

Yeah that one. I agree that even if it seemed like the odds were stacked against Coburn, he just didn't do a good job in general.
I'm interested in what you think about the DRG vs Chip Berlet debate. What did you think of that one?



For what it's worth here's my opinion of this one. I know you directed this at Red, hope you don't mind.

The host (Amy Goodman?) was professional and adroit, her introduction was somewhat slanted but she redeemed herself by asking very pertinent questions during the debate. Overall, civilised and politely conducted with hardly any cross-talk. A good example of how these events should be handled.

Those are the bones what about the meat?

DRG brings up many well-worn thoroughly-debunked truther canards (the debate is from 2004) ie the Put Options, OBL in Dubai Hospital, PNAC, Pentagon hole to small, fire doesn't bring down steel buildings, aircraft fuel doesn't explode, WTC7 fires were very small and died down quickly, freefall collapse to less than three storeys height, seismic evidence shows underground explosions, WTC steel shipped to Asia before it could be studied, concrete turned to dust..on and on and on. Despite all this, when asked (by the host) to name one structural engineer who refutes the "official story" he cannot do so.

Berlet, faced with this deluge of twoof, takes a good tack and concentrates on one or two of DRG's claims. He disputes the claim that aircraft fuel doesn't explode as it did on 9/11 (and rightly says this is easily disproven). The OBL Dubai hospital visit is dismissed, the sources for that story are anonymous the head of the hospital says it didn't happen. Berlet informs DRG that far from being a non-existent entity a certain pentagon crash witness (by the name of Winslow, I'm assuming that the DRG book claims he doesn't exist) is easliy located, he's a radio reporter in Washington. Berlet let's DRG know that he is relying on substandard research.

In reply DRG goes off on one a little, announcing that Berlet is just "picking holes" in the evidence. DRG asserts that it is the cumalative argument that matters. I find this theory amusing, I'm quite sure that Berlet, given time, could have debunked every one of DRG's claims.

Debunkers 1 Truthers 0


Compus

[Hubbub]

I've been lurking for a while but figured it's time I'd actually pop in.

I appreciate the links and love listening to debates. I feel like I should be properly equipped with the correct information to handle stray truthers, given my field of study. Even one of the students in my lab, out of the blue, brought up how he thought 911CTs were somewhat compelling (it was basic LC v1,2 stuff so even I was able to refute pretty thoroughly).

So far, Mark Roberts v. Loose Change is my favorite debate on the subject.

Avery: "Science laws were shattered on the morning of 9/11"
<Mark disagrees>
Avery: "We'll have to agree to disagree..."

Yes. Let's agree to disagree as to whether the laws of physics were suspended in a way to support your "conspiracy hypothesis".

I actually was hoping that Mark Roberts would be at NECSS in September so I could meet him.

[CompusMentus]

I am thinking of setting up a website archive for 9/11 audio debates. I can't find a resource dedicated to these type of debates. I think it would be a nice little project, I'm at a bit of a loose end this week and bored stiff.

If anyone wants to help out post here or PM me. I'll put up the files already linked to above tonight and post the URL soon.


Compus

[RedIbis]

Yeah that one. I agree that even if it seemed like the odds were stacked against Coburn, he just didn't do a good job in general.

I'm interested in what you think about the DRG vs Chip Berlet debate. What did you think of that one?

The link for this debate is google's home page.

[twinstead]

The link for this debate is google's home page.

Good. I thought it was just me.

[RedIbis]

Good. I thought it was just me.

I even googled it and didn't come up with a link for the interview.

[CompusMentus]

I even googled it and didn't come up with a link for the interview.


I had that problem too. Right click the faulty link, click copy link location and paste it to your browser address box.


Compus

[Hubbub]

I had that problem too. Right click the faulty link, click copy link location and paste it to your browser address box.


Compus

Then File->"Save Page As..." if you want to save the mp3.

That part wasn't obvious to me.

[fourtoe]

Yeah sorry guys, there is a little bit of a hassle going to the mp3s. The right clicking still works it seems though.

Compus, I'm down to help you out with the site! I have a few more that I think I could add to a collection.

[CompusMentus]

Compus, I'm down to help you out with the site! I have a few more that I think I could add to a collection.


Great! Thanks. Put the links up here or PM me.

Ok I'm sorting out the mp3 tags on the files you posted they were messy. This makes it much easier for me to sort them. I've uploaded a fledgeling site HERE (http://compusmentus.cwahi.net/) It's a free site so I can't really complain about the top ad banner. There's nothing linked ATM but I should be able to get 1 or 2 hours on it tomorrow.

Any ideas about the content, layout or anything please PM me.


Compus

[CompusMentus]

I've managed to tidy up the 9/11 Audio Debate site a bit and download a file or two SEE HERE (http://compusmentus.cwahi.net/)

There have been problems with the host provider for the new site. Their FTP server is not responding they report problems on their homepage.

Please, can anyone recommend a free reliable webpage service provider? I need a fair amount of space (500mb+) plenty of bandwidth and preferably no ads. Does such a beast exist?


Compus

[fourtoe]

I'll ask a friend of mine who literally IS the internet what he knows about good free website offers.


I was kind of hoping you were gonna set up a review section or something, I didn't know you wanted it to be supremely neutral.

[Edx]

a friend of mine who literally IS the internet.

WOW

[CompusMentus]

I was kind of hoping you were gonna set up a review section or something, I didn't know you wanted it to be supremely neutral.

It would be great if your friend could help, thanks.

I did consider reviews etc they would be an interesting addition to the site.

But, the thing is, the door to both sides of the debate must be open. That means dealing with all the nuttiness involved. You and I both know what that means. Then there's the extra work involved. I think at the moment, the site should be neutral for the sake of expediency. For now I'd just like to get as many files sorted and up and available asap. Perhaps in the future it could be incorporated.

Compus

[Audible Click]

I'll ask a friend of mine who literally IS the internet what he knows about good free website offers.
I was kind of hoping you were gonna set up a review section or something, I didn't know you wanted it to be supremely neutral.

Wow, Al Gore is your friend. ;)



During an interview with Wolf Blitzer last in March 1999, Gore said, 'During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the internet.'

[fourtoe]

Wow, Al Gore is your friend. ;)



During an interview with Wolf Blitzer last in March 1999, Gore said, 'During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the internet.'

Oh yes, I remember when Al Gore said he invented the internet. I also remember how important a Lock Box was to him as well.

Compus, yeah you make an excellent point. Sticking to the file collection sounds like the number one priority

Plus I figure a lot of the files will probably just be discussed here.

[DiskoVilante]

Hello, I'm the internet.

So, you can try Google Sites and "attach" files to the site you create and make it publicly available. Or you can try creating a blog on Tumblr and uploading MP3 files in posts. Tumblr looks a lot nicer.
This site: http://www.filefreak.com/ has free 1GB of storage. I don't know if that'll be enough.

[CompusMentus]

An update on the 911debates site.

I've dived in at the deep end and lashed out a few quid for a domain and a webhost.

I'm a html noob and I've only just got to grips with FTP and all the other stuff.

The site is now up HERE (http://www.ferricadooza.com/911debates/) there's only a couple of debates posted at present HERE (http://www.ferricadooza.com/911debates/latestdebates.html). I would be grateful if someone could test out the server for speed etc.

I aim to upload tons of files within the next few days. I think it will a good resource for those interested in 9/11 conspiracy theories.


Compus

[carlitos]

re: Server speed - I "right" clicked (2 fingers on the macbook trackpad), and chose "open in iTunes" and was listening in about 2 seconds.

[Sam.I.Am]

I got an average ping rate of about 46 milliseconds from Seattle WA with 0 packets lost. The servers fine.

[carlitos]

showoff

[CompusMentus]

Excellent stuff chaps!

They seemed to have choked the FTP upload bandwidth though I get only 10KBs. I'll have to look at the settings there or open a ticket. Perhaps they may do that to prevent me reselling the hosting?


Thanks

Compus

[fourtoe]

Compus,

the site looks awesome. I got a few more debates featuring Brainster and James Bermas if you want them.

I want to also say I should look into trying to convert flv and other file types into mp3. That way a couple good youtube vids can be used on the site.

People in my dwelling are no longer using all the bandwidth so now I can start looking for more files. I'll post them here.

[fourtoe]

For now I could only find Jim Fetzer vs Alan Colmes:

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Media/060627_Fetzer.mp3

[CompusMentus]

Compus,
the site looks awesome. I got a few more debates featuring Brainster and James Bermas if you want them.
I want to also say I should look into trying to convert flv and other file types into mp3. That way a couple good youtube vids can be used on the site.
People in my dwelling are no longer using all the bandwidth so now I can start looking for more files. I'll post them here.



I'm beginning to build up a little collection now. There's over a dozen debates up so far. Thanks for your help, keep 'em coming.

I'd be very interested in the brainster/bermas links, saves me google-time thanks again.

The flv>mp3 is an option, there's plenty to get on with ATM though.

Fetzer has a huge twooferfest on his radio blog HERE (http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com/) so much I will have to be choosy and pick out the most interesting/amusing. Most of his guests are of the same truther stamp as him, he doesn't like too much opposition. Although the Prof Jones vs Fetzer debate is highly amusing. In it Fetzer goes off on a loopy tangent about grand pianos falling slower than freefall (if the piano top is open) it's coffee-spitting brilliant. I am thinking of compiling a few of these types of verbal stundies but that's another time, another place.

I'm quite knackered so am hitting the sack soon. I'll work on more stuff tomorrow evening. See my sig for the link.

ETA How do I add a sig? Can't get it to work do I have to have a post quota?

Compus

[Sam.I.Am]

You have more than enough posts. Go to user CP at the top of the page and the edit signature option is there.

[CompusMentus]

You have more than enough posts. Go to user CP at the top of the page and the edit signature option is there.


Yep done that, still doesn't show. Is it enabled elsewhere in the CP?

ETA Doh! Its there thanks

Compus

[fourtoe]

I got too much Fetzer in the Hardfire debates. He makes talking over people and hogging all the air time an art. srsly.

[CompusMentus]

I got too much Fetzer in the Hardfire debates. He makes talking over people and hogging all the air time an art. srsly.


Hey Knife, thanks for the plug on the Podcast thread.

Just tumbled out of the sack. Have few hours spare to work on the site.

Anyway, about Fetzer, where do I start? He is, as you say, a terrible interviewee/host. He just cannot button it for more than a few seconds, he has an overactive waffle gland I think. But, oddly, I find the bloke highly amusing. I have only just started to listen to his output and I must recommend at least one or two of his debates as I think they perfectly illustrate the disintegration of the TM after it's "peak" of 2006.

The "disinformation syndrome" necrosis that is destroying the TM is a subject fascinating to me. I would love to find the first instance of someone in the TM accusing another of "disinfo".

For the reasons above my favourite Fetzer debate so far is the confrontation between him and Prof. Jones (HERE) (http://www.ferricadooza.com/911debates/2007-01-17%209-11%20Debates%20Jones%20S%20-%20Fetzer%20Dynamic%20Duo%20GCN.mp3). For those who may not know, this was just after the "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" split in the winter of 2006/2007. Fetzer and Jones were co-chairs of Sf9/11T and their association comes to an ignomious end right here. There's a JREF thread HERE (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=68998) that gives good insight into what led up to that. Briefly, at the core of the whole split was Fetzers love-in with Judy Wood, Jones objected to that. That sets the stage for the "battle" that ensued.

Fetzer and Jones exchanged a few letters (see HERE (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2111030#post2111030) and HERE (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2116058#post2116058))

Then we come to the "debate". It's from Fetzers Dynamic Duo Radio Show on GCN. Fetzer kicks off hilariously ranting and rambling on about grand pianos on helium balloons and many other ad-homs and gripes, when he finally takes a breath Jones is introduced then it gradually worsens even further from there. Fetzer and Jones snipe at each other about their respective qualifications and published works. Fetzer tries to lecture Jones on the "Nature of Science". Jones, who mostly seems like a quiet affable man, eventually loses his rag and Fetzer resorts to turning down Jones' volume. I've heard more mature interactions when my grandson plays yu-gi-oh card battles with his best friend but it is compulsive listening.

All-in-all, not a really productive advert for the TM. In fact the opposite is true. For that reason (and the humour content).....Highly recommended.


Compus

[fourtoe]

Compus you reminded me of another possible addition to your site in mentioning Judy Wood.

In one of the Gravy vs. Fetzer debates Gravy quotes Wood from some kind of interview which Fetzer labeled a 'hit piece'. I take that to mean that the interviewer was asking critical questions about her research. They also mentioned that the interviewer was a physicist.

That is all I know about it so I don't know for sure if it is attainable and I hope that if it is it will be in mp3 format and a good listen. I'm gonna search Wood's site again right now.

Any other JREFers know what I'm referring to please chime in!

[CompusMentus]

Compus you reminded me of another possible addition to your site in mentioning Judy Wood.


I think you are referring to the Dr Greg Jenkins Wood video interview (HERE (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-558096240694803017#)). Thanks for reminding me about it.
If I remember correctly, Jenkins is a truther. He mangles Woods' "research" and Wood squirms uncomfortably under the attack.

Yes it is very interesting. I'll look it up to see if I can find it in mp3 format. Or convert the flv to mp3.

Compus

[fourtoe]

Ah! Beat me to it! Yeah the interview sounds right up your alley. Truther vs Truther battle in the Thunderdome!

maybe http://zamzar.com/ can convert it to mp3. I don't remember how big the file is.

[CompusMentus]

Ah! Beat me to it! Yeah the interview sounds right up your alley. Truther vs Truther battle in the Thunderdome!
maybe http://zamzar.com/ can convert it to mp3. I don't remember how big the file is.



Thanks, I'm downloading the interview now with Orbit (http://www.orbitdownloader.com/). I'll covert it with the s/w at your link and get it up soon.


Compus

[CompusMentus]

Had a couple of bottles of Chardonnay tonight so everythings a bit giddy.

Must say though, I fuggin luvs this site, you guys are great.


Compus

[bill smith]

This is probably one of the best and most useful threads on the jref. Hats off to the priginator.

Here is an interview between Richard Gage and Alex Jones. Don't know the date but it was after Charlie Sheen and the National Geographic show.

Richard Gage and Alex Jones 2009

http://www.radiodujour.com/mp3/20090909_alexjones_richardgage.mp3

[beachnut]

Proof again Richard Gage is a liar and can only form moronic delusions on 9/11. Sad pathetic little man.

[CompusMentus]

Update, the 9/11 Debates site is undergoing some maintenance today so files may be missing or unavailable. It should be sorted within an hour or so.

ETA Taking longer than I thought apologies if anyones having problems. Should be sorted out in another couple of hours

Compus

[CompusMentus]

This is probably one of the best and most useful threads on the jref. Hats off to the priginator.
Here is an interview between Richard Gage and Alex Jones. Don't know the date but it was after Charlie Sheen and the National Geographic show.
Richard Gage and Alex Jones 2009
http://www.radiodujour.com/mp3/20090909_alexjones_richardgage.mp3


Bill, not really a debate though is it? More like an arse-kissing contest. How about something with a bit more meat? These two just kick through the 9/11 CT boneash.

Got anything that includes opposition to the TM point of view?


Compus

[bill smith]

Bill, not really a debate though is it? More like an arse-kissing contest. How about something with a bit more meat? These two just kick through the 9/11 CT boneash.

Got anything that includes opposition to the TM point of view?


Compus

I'll have a look but I don't think nything effective is available in that sense. That seems to be the rule these days. I don't see it improving for the OCT either

Did you notice that at he Commonwealth Club 60 of the 200 people present initially believed the OCT but by the end 54 of those 60 believed the explosive controlled demolition theory ?

[fourtoe]

Bill have you listened to the other stuff? I'm interested in what the Truthers of JREF think of any of these debates.

[ScottyMate]

For now I could only find Jim Fetzer vs Alan Colmes:




Oh I sooo wish I hadn't listened to that one. It had me seething. When Alan Colmes took the caller that had lost a relative on Flight 93, Fetzer was coming out with all sorts of garbage as to why his Uncle was probably still alive and in on the plot (but I'm not saying he is even though I am!) - disgusting.

Fetzer changed his claim about the phone calls within a few minutes, but couldn't bring himself to admit they'd happened.

Phone calls were impossible because he'd been told they were.
Phone calls were nearly impossible because he'd been told they were.
They might have been possible, but you needed a credit card, AND what self respecting terrorists would have allowed them to make calls?

So the caller had spoken to his uncle while he was on board the plane- not so says Fetzer, he's probably living in Europe and only pretending to be dead so Bush and Cheney can play war.

Not to mention when he says if he was faced with several men with box cutters(short bladed weapons perfectly suited for enclosed spaces) he would have beaten them up with his hand luggage..... Yea you go girl!

The comment about the planes hitting the WTC was another monitor screaming moment.

"Don't worry about being trapped above the impact points guys! Don't worry about the choking black smoke and the searing heat - because Jim Fetzer says it's only like a pencil hitting a mosquito net!"

Oh gawd.. what a clown.

[bill smith]

Bill have you listened to the other stuff? I'm interested in what the Truthers of JREF think of any of these debates.

Sure. I've heard lots of them over the years. Nice that you are collating them. Compus too.

These days I am more interested in the tone. In the beginning it was all laugh-at-the-silly-conspiracy-theorists and all that good stuff Continuous ridicule. It wasn't very easy to listen to.

Things are different now what with the boot being on the other foot. The tone is respectful and the demeanour of the opposition is often pleasingly defensive. We have made great strides and you can tell it simply from listening to the interviews.

[fourtoe]

Oh I sooo wish I hadn't listened to that one. It had me seething. When Alan Colmes took the caller that had lost a relative on Flight 93, Fetzer was coming out with all sorts of garbage as to why his Uncle was probably still alive and in on the plot (but I'm not saying he is even though I am!) - disgusting.

Fetzer changed his claim about the phone calls within a few minutes, but couldn't bring himself to admit they'd happened.

Phone calls were impossible because he'd been told they were.
Phone calls were nearly impossible because he'd been told they were.
They might have been possible, but you needed a credit card, AND what self respecting terrorists would have allowed them to make calls?

So the caller had spoken to his uncle while he was on board the plane- not so says Fetzer, he's probably living in Europe and only pretending to be dead so Bush and Cheney can play war.

Not to mention when he says if he was faced with several men with box cutters(short bladed weapons perfectly suited for enclosed spaces) he would have beaten them up with his hand luggage..... Yea you go girl!

The comment about the planes hitting the WTC was another monitor screaming moment.

"Don't worry about being trapped above the impact points guys! Don't worry about the choking black smoke and the searing heat - because Jim Fetzer says it's only like a pencil hitting a mosquito net!"

Oh gawd.. what a clown.

Yeah this is definitely one of the more ridiculous ones. Fetzer does come off as a soulless prick.

[fourtoe]

Bump.

I'm bumping my beloved thread back from the dead because I now have a lot of time to help and contribute to www.911debates.com which Compus has put together.

If anyone wants to contribute their thoughts on any of the debates posted so far or send links of other debates to me that would be awesome!

Also, the links at 911debates and the ones I've provided in this thread are either not working or sending ppl to some other page.

The ones that lead you directly to a blank Google page you can still download. Right click on the link that I have provided and save the mp3 file.

I'm also posting some of them again here:

DRG v Chip Berlet
here (http://ia341307.us.archive.org/3/items/dn2004-0526/dn2004-0526-1_64kb.mp3)

DRG v George Monbiot
here (http://www.checktheevidence.com/audio/911/DR-Griffin%20G-Monbiot%20T-Sparke%20D-Avery-9-11-James%20Whale%2029%20Nov%202007.mp3)

Kevin Ryan v Michael Shermer
here (http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/PORTLAND-OR/KPOJ-AM/hartmann_podcast_20071108-2.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=PORTLAND-OR&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=674&STATION_ID=KPOJ-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=AM620_KPOJ&PCAST_CAT=News_%26_Politics&PCAST_TITLE=Thom_Hartmann_Nationwide)
callers (http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/PORTLAND-OR/KPOJ-AM/hartmann_podcast_20071108-3.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=PORTLAND-OR&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&SITE_ID=674&STATION_ID=KPOJ-AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=AM620_KPOJ&PCAST_CAT=News_%26_Politics&PCAST_TITLE=Thom_Hartmann_Nationwide)

And here is a new one I think, it has Shyam Sunder:
here (http://noliesradio.org/archives/Nist%20Dr%20Sunder%20Interview_080821_widmusic-web.mp3)

[Edx]

1. Some of these have video

2. you should have a youtube account to host these imo.

[fourtoe]

1. Some of these have video

2. you should have a youtube account to host these imo.

I'm more of an mp3 guy. I like to have them to listen to on my ipod.

I do have a youtube account! And you reminded me that I do have a video of me arguing with some Truthers. I just have videos of a group of friends and I arguing with Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort for now...

[fourtoe]

http://www.paulsdomain.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=615885

Jeff Hill v. Craig Ranke of CIT

I haven't listened to it yet and have no idea who Jeff Hill is but I wanted to bump this thread so here we are.

[Brainster]

http://www.paulsdomain.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=615885

Jeff Hill v. Craig Ranke of CIT

I haven't listened to it yet and have no idea who Jeff Hill is but I wanted to bump this thread so here we are.

Hill's the Crazy Canuck (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/search?q=Canuck). He earned that sobriquet by calling the NY counter-terrorism task force of the FBI and suggesting that they watch the move Loose Change on the internet to find out who really committed the crimes of 9-11. Repeatedly. Generally seems thoroughly stoned out of his gourd, so I don't have high hopes for his debunking of Cranky Ranke.

BTW, there's a terrific free web-based application called YouTube to MP3; I use it to download a lot of Truther videos that basically amount to speeches.

[fourtoe]

Hill's the Crazy Canuck (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/search?q=Canuck). He earned that sobriquet by calling the NY counter-terrorism task force of the FBI and suggesting that they watch the move Loose Change on the internet to find out who really committed the crimes of 9-11. Repeatedly. Generally seems thoroughly stoned out of his gourd, so I don't have high hopes for his debunking of Cranky Ranke.

BTW, there's a terrific free web-based application called YouTube to MP3; I use it to download a lot of Truther videos that basically amount to speeches.

Yeah I'm about 40 minutes into it and Craig talks as if he is about to flip out and start yelling and seems really snide...Hill doesn't sound too bad so far but he is awful at debating and is really passive and doesn't really attempt to present any argument...so far at least.

The other issue is that they're debating as if the audience that is listening is pretty much the few ppl who post on P4T and at CIT...they reference a lot of people and quotes and give no context. I mean, this is kind of understandable considering this is just some guy's podcast and there is a good chance that the only ppl who do listen to this are just the posters on P4T and at CIT...but with how much time and freedom they were both allowed they should have at least elaborated on some things.

It is a bummer to a person like me who loves debates because 911 CTs have become so much less popular since 2006. It seems the only people who want to debate Truthers now are other Truthers who are only slightly more crazy than themselves to begin with!

Thanks for the yt to mp3 suggestion, I use zamzar whenever I wanna watch yt videos on my ipod.

[Childlike Empress]

If you show you've done your homework (at least at Jeff Hill level), i'm sure they would be happy to debate you. You would be the first debunker to be willing to do that (a live audio debate), as far as i know. Brainster was invited (http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=216) nearly two years ago, and while he did similar things with Jon Gold and Dylan Avery, the debate with Craig never happened.

Right, Brainster? What went wrong?

[beachnut]

Reported? That is ...
Reported.

We stopped with me asking Brainster why the debate with Craig Ranke never happened.

What an evasive crap. Why are your actions dependent on what snake oil sellers do?

Why is the forum search full of Loose Change, Alex Jones, Rob Balsamo, Eric Hufschmid, James Fetzer, Richard Gage etc. pp. and has problems to find something on Ray McGovern, the Jersey Girls, Sibel Edmonds, Daniel Hopsicker, Dave Emory, Nafeez Ahmeed, Peter Dale Scott, Paul Thompson, Sander Hicks or Bob Bowman that is not forced into discussion by me or some other "dissidents"?

I tell you why. You are a bunch of frightened cowards. Shame on you. Bob Bowman? He is nuts... lol, you picked the insane people.

Your post is a good reason not to debate you and the 911 truth movement no evidence no action people. Who can debate the delusion masters you support (with the same no evidence 911 truth method)? What you do you discuss how stupid the beam weapons stuff is, or after finding the Passenger DNA and the FDR from Flight 77 in the Pentagon how if flew over the Pentagon or was not even there? Pure idiotic delusions; How do you debate idiots who spew lies and use hearsay and opinions as evidence?



Hey all,

I became interested in 911 CT because I love listening to debates.
...


Steven Jones vs Leslie Robertson (http://911underground.com/2006-10-26_Professor_Steven_E_Jones_Debates_Leslie_Roberts on.MP3)

This one is pretty well rounded. Both Jones and Robertson are civil and it seems like a discussion more than a debate. You still get a great audio source of Robertson stating what he really thinks about the collapses.


...
The best part was Robertson calling the ideas of Jones nonsense. Robertson was the structural engineer for the WTC towers and understands the CD claims are nonsense. Robertson is the only real expert on the WTC structure.

[Brainster]

If you show you've done your homework (at least at Jeff Hill level), i'm sure they would be happy to debate you. You would be the first debunker to be willing to do that (a live audio debate), as far as i know. Brainster was invited (http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=216) nearly two years ago, and while he did similar things with Jon Gold and Dylan Avery, the debate with Craig never happened.

Right, Brainster? What went wrong?

I don't recall ever actually being asked to debate Ranke, although I could be wrong. There are several problems that I see with such a debate.

First, I have little interest in doing a podcast or internet "Truther" radio show, for the simple reason that I believe the only value in debating is to sway undecideds. When I'm on the BBC or Rob Breakenridge's program in Calgary, I'm hitting a lot of listeners who may have no firm opinion on the topic. That's not the case with Truther radio.

Second, debating Ranke would come down to a few simple observations: Eyewitnesses are quite often wrong in their memory, and where their memory differs from the physical evidence, go with the physical evidence. Virtually every episode of CSI highlights this point.

Third, I don't feel the need. I see little evidence that the NOC/flyover theory is gaining converts. Many "Truthers" have done excellent work debunking the CIT gang, including Arabesque (http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/), Caustic Logic (http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.com/) (former truther), and Jim Hoffman (http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/noplane/index.html) and Russ Pickering (http://web.archive.org/web/20070209145135/http://pentagonresearch.com/index.html).

[Childlike Empress]

Thanks for the answer, Brainster.

(edit due to removal of derail (thanks): Here's another recent audio debate:)

Dave Emory goes deep with Daniel Hopsicker (http://podcast.wfmu.org/kdb/mp3jump2010.mp3/0:7:19/0/DX/dx100601.mp3), aired June 1st 2010, 60min, 63MB

[Tricky]

Keep it on topic and keep it civil. If you feel you should report a post, then do so. There is no need to announce it.

[fourtoe]

I found another quasi-debate:

http://911.husseh.com/audio/050507d.mp3

I found it by looking at this old thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=84110).

It is pretty frustrating to listen to and the two hosts are complete idiots!

[carlitos]

I found another quasi-debate:

http://911.husseh.com/audio/050507d.mp3

I found it by looking at this old thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=84110).

It is pretty frustrating to listen to and the two hosts are complete idiots!

It sure is, and they sure are. Someone needs a logic course.

[fourtoe]

Thanks for the answer, Brainster.

(edit due to removal of derail (thanks): Here's another recent audio debate:)

Dave Emory goes deep with Daniel Hopsicker (http://podcast.wfmu.org/kdb/mp3jump2010.mp3/0:7:19/0/DX/dx100601.mp3), aired June 1st 2010, 60min, 63MB
I didn't see this post, I'll check it out!

[Walter Ego]

Thanks for the answer, Brainster.

(edit due to removal of derail (thanks): Here's another recent audio debate:)

Dave Emory goes deep with Daniel Hopsicker (http://podcast.wfmu.org/kdb/mp3jump2010.mp3/0:7:19/0/DX/dx100601.mp3), aired June 1st 2010, 60min, 63MB

This is hardly a "debate."

I love WFMU, a free-form listener supported radio station in New Jersey (check out the tons of free music and other goodies on their blog (http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/)), but Dave Emory is not a skeptic and he doesn't debate Hopsicker.

Here's a description of Emory's show on WFMU from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Emory).

Programs consist of two 30-minute monologues or telephone interviews on one or more topics, including Fascism, Corporatism, genocide, the Cold War, Fifth column movements, and international banking scandals. Recurring topics also include the Kennedy assassination and its alleged relations to the FBI, George H. W. Bush, Richard Nixon and the Watergate scandal, German-controlled industry and banking, the Muslim Brotherhood, 9/11, the Bush family and its business connections to the Osama Bin Laden family and the Third Reich (through Senator Prescott Bush), the P-2 Lodge, disinformation, mind control and cults.

I'm listening to the program right now and Hopsicker is going on and on about his conspiracy theories about the school in Venice, Florida (http://www.veniceflorida.com/features/hopsicker.htm), where some of the 9/11 hijackers took fight training and nary a discouraging word is voiced by Emory. There are lots of digressions (including something or other about General Chiang Kai-shek and CIA drug smuggling) but I don't think I'll going to stick around to hear the "dots" get connected.

This audio is a complete waste of time for skeptics.

[Childlike Empress]

It's a waste of time for pseudo-skeptics, that's for sure.

But you're right, it's not technically a debate. I posted it answering a derail and decided that it was close enough to the topic to let it stand, while i edited out the rest of my comment after the derail was removed.

[CompusMentus]

Hey.

Sorry to anyone trying to link to my 911Debates site. The files are unavailable ATM.

Family commitments and a serious illness have prevented me from spending much time on my little hobby.

I hope to start it back up soon. I'll be changing my web server, it'll take a while but I hope to sort it out within a few weeks.

Get back to you on it soon.

Great work Walter BTW keep it up mate.

Compus

[fourtoe]

This is hardly a "debate."

I love WFMU, a free-form listener supported radio station in New Jersey (check out the tons of free music and other goodies on their blog (http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/)), but Dave Emory is not a skeptic and he doesn't debate Hopsicker.

Here's a description of Emory's show on WFMU from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Emory).



I'm listening to the program right now and Hopsicker is going on and on about his conspiracy theories about the school in Venice, Florida (http://www.veniceflorida.com/features/hopsicker.htm), where some of the 9/11 hijackers took fight training and nary a discouraging word is voiced by Emory. There are lots of digressions (including something or other about General Chiang Kai-shek and CIA drug smuggling) but I don't think I'll going to stick around to hear the "dots" get connected.

This audio is a complete waste of time for skeptics.

I agree, this sounded more like a pseudo-intellectual circle-jerk if anything.

Here is another debate back in 2008 between Michael McConnell and Steve Alten.
http://visibility911.com/media/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/alten-mcconnell.mp3

I posted debates between McConnell and Cincinnati 9/11 Truth that I found on Walter's blog and agree with him that McConnell does a real good job taking on three 9/11 Truthers. I'll probably make an updated post with my favorite debates and review them so I'll talk about this mp3 when I do that I guess.

ETA: Only for the first half an hour is there the McConnell v. Alten 911 debate.

[Childlike Empress]

Pseudo-intellectual? Big word for someone who is in this just for the LULZ.

edit: Emory is at the moment conducting an interview series with Russ Baker, author of "Family of Secrets". Part two aired last tuesday, part three of an unspecified number will follow next week. I think i'll start a thread about it in general CT after they are finished.
</off-topic>

[fourtoe]

Pseudo-intellectual? Big word for someone who is in this just for the LULZ.


I'm not sure why being in something for the LULZ requires you to not use big words...I think I remember the post I made that you are referring to. But if you look at my OP for this thread you can see that I'm in this for a lot of other things besides avenging the late Lulz:
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/31969/1067684-do_it_for_the_lulz_super.jpg.

But I will concede that listening to that mp3 has made me look into some of the claims mentioned so ultimately this would be considered legit...though if it gets added to 911debates.com it should be qualified with a message saying that the content is only partially considering a 911 CT claim.


edit: Emory is at the moment conducting an interview series with Russ Baker, author of "Family of Secrets". Part two aired last tuesday, part three of an unspecified number will follow next week. I think i'll start a thread about it in general CT after they are finished.
</off-topic>

I've been tossing the idea of starting a thread in the CT section that has other CT debates that I have found. I'd like to have a bunch of links to start out with so maybe you could post it there, eh?

[ScottyMate]

Here is another debate back in 2008 between Michael McConnell and Steve Alten.




That was fun. Why does every conspiracy theorist start off by saying "Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist" It's so dishonest. He says he wants to stick to "facts" but doesn't take long before he jumps down the rabbit hole.

[fourtoe]

I haven't been in this forum in awhile so I am bumping my old old old thread from beyond the grave to see if I missed anything.

I'm gonna try and find all the links to those debates Richard Cage had with that pastor last year and post them here but PLEASE if there are anymore post them here!

[George152]

It's a waste of time for pseudo-skeptics, that's for sure.

.

So quit while you're behind !