Tea partiers turn on GOP leadership

[MattusMaximus]

Looks like some chickens are coming home to roost for the Republican Party...

Tea partiers turn on GOP leadership (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28157.html)
While the energy of the anti-tax and anti-Big Government tea party movement may yet haunt Democrats in 2010, the first order of business appears to be remaking the Republican Party.

Whether it’s the loose confederation of Washington-oriented groups that have played an organizational role or the state-level activists who are channeling grass-roots anger into action back home, tea party forces are confronting the Republican establishment by backing insurgent conservatives and generating their own candidates — even if it means taking on GOP incumbents.

This will definitely make the GOP primaries in the spring very interesting. Of course it makes sense why the establishment Republicans are worried: if they swing too far to the right to keep the Tea Party folks in check, they risk pissing off needed moderates & independents to win general elections; however, if they don't cater to the wingnut crowd, they risk getting their asses kicked in the primaries because many in the base have gotten too nutty.

One has to wonder what Ron Paul thinks of all this? One thing's for sure, it is truly entertaining :)

[Upchurch]

This will definitely make the GOP primaries in the spring very interesting. Of course it makes sense why the establishment Republicans are worried: if they swing too far to the right to keep the Tea Party folks in check, they risk pissing off needed moderates & independents to win general elections; however, if they don't cater to the wingnut crowd, they risk getting their asses kicked in the primaries because many in the base have gotten too nutty.
This is essentially what happened in 2008, before they had the "tea party" label (or maybe just as). If this "movement" is still relevant, Obama will have a familiar path back to the White House in 2012.

The problem is that it is hard to maintain that kind of energy for that long. Maybe they'll die down and ramp back up for the election. I dunno. They may be a factor in 2010, but probably not in 2012.

We'll see.

[leftysergeant]

I am seriously thinking of making a donation to Freedom Works to ensure that the whackadoodles get their candidates on the ticket, and then donating to the opposing Democrat inselected races.

I want 75 votes in the Senate.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Here's a line that has me very confused:

For some, supporting insurgent campaigns or waging primary bids just isn’t a strong enough signal to send to a Republican Party that has abandoned core conservative policies.

What??? For the last 8 years, the GOP has cut, started

Why is a Teabager/Birther/Deart coup on the GOP necessary WHEN THEY ALREADY CONTROL THE FRACKING PARTY???

Or is this another case of the racist, sexist, homophobic, theocratic, militaristic, corporatist Republican Pary not being right-wing enough for the America's Conservatives/Fascists.

[quixotecoyote]

It could be that as a major party of government, it's tough to keep the loyalty of an anti-government base.

[mhaze]

Here's a line that has me very confused:
.....
Or is this another case of the racist, sexist, homophobic, theocratic, militaristic, corporatist Republican Pary not being right-wing enough for the America's Conservatives/Fascists.

With this one minor change, they would likely agree with you.

Or is this another case of the racist, sexist, homophobic, theocratic, militaristic, corporatist, Fascist Republican Pary not being right-wing enough for the America's Conservatives.

You see, Fascists are totalitarianists, of the .... Socialist bent.

[MattusMaximus]

It could be that as a major party of government, it's tough to keep the loyalty of an anti-government base.

QC, I think you may have your finger right on the answer. Excellent point.

[MattusMaximus]

With this one minor change, they would likely agree with you.

Or is this another case of the racist, sexist, homophobic, theocratic, militaristic, corporatist, Fascist Republican Pary not being right-wing enough for the America's Conservatives.

You see, Fascists are totalitarianists, of the .... Socialist bent.

Mhaze, didn't you get the memo? August and September have come and gone :rolleyes:

[MattusMaximus]

I am seriously thinking of making a donation to Freedom Works to ensure that the whackadoodles get their candidates on the ticket, and then donating to the opposing Democrat inselected races.

I've heard others on the left mention this strategy as well. No doubt if enough people did this, it would give the establishment Republicans absolute fits.

I want 75 votes in the Senate.

Not me, thanks. I like a bit more balance in my government.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Double post...

[Achán hiNidráne]

You see, Fascists are totalitarianists, of the .... Socialist bent.

Considering that your side of the spectrum can't tell the difference between an fascist and an atheist (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=156087), your equivocation is meaningless.

[dudalb]

Considering that your side of the spectrum can't tell the difference between an fascist and an atheist (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=156087), your equivocation is meaningless.

I thought you said you were going to work on be able to disagree with somebody about politics or religion without name calling or insults. You have quite a ways to go, kid.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I thought you said you were going to work on be able to disagree with somebody about politics or religion without name calling or insults.

I changed my mind.

There are people in this world who, because of their beliefs, need to be kicked around (both figuratively and literally) to keep them in check, lest they ruin civilization.

You have quite a ways to go, kid.

No. I found out that I should stay right where I am.

I like being "bipolar"--or whatever the hell my so-called problem is. Particularly when all the "normal" people are all to willing to tolerate stupidity in the name of "civility."

[GreNME]

Basically, the Ron Paul Party (which is what these Tea Party people really are) is going to wind up going the way of Perot's Reform Party, and by 2012 they'll be insignificant. In the meantime, if the Democratic Party keeps on appealing to their conventional supporters, they'll have a tough fight in 2010 but should remain at just about the same numbers (though a few Teabaggers will likely get some kind of office).

[SezMe]

I don't think this is a Republican phenomenon. Many lefties are talking about running primary opponents against Blue Dogs. I wouldn't be surprised to see a ragtag, ineffectual effort to oppose Obama in the 2012 primaries because he has not satisfied some lefties.

[Sporanox]

The OP is old news. Republicans have been dissatisfied with the Beltway attitude and spendthrift habits of the hierarchy for some time now.

[Dancing David]

This is just party politics, the spin is the usual, the comments are about the same. It is the current trend of the GOP to move from a 'big tent' to the 'core supporters'.

[Upchurch]

Not me, thanks. I like a bit more balance in my government.
Me too, but we're talking the Democrats here. They manage to balance themselves out.

eta: a better balance, imho, is a Republican Congress and Democratic President.

[WinstonCountyWildman]

the repubs dropped the ball when they allowed extremist "xtian" types to take over the party. They removed moderates like me from the party when they switched to these nutjobs and their ideals.

A perfect example of their mindset is the governor of alabama outlawing sex toys in the 21st damned century. With all the drugs and crime and poverty etc the best thing he could raise hell about and dwell on for over a year was whether or not grown adults could buy sex toys for their personal use without rotting in hell for it.

Selling a dildo or vibrator to an adult in Alabama will now cost you 10,000 dollars but you can sell a minor a gun and it will run you 500 bucks.

All because some "conservatives" are afraid their women will find a piece of plastic is more attractive to their wives than they are.

This kind of crap is why so many "normal" conservatives got tired of the party.

You cannot live like its 1809 when it is 2009

[Upchurch]

You cannot live like its 1809 when it is 2009
You can do it all you want. Just don't expect me to do it, too.

[shemp]

Tea partiers turn on GOP leadership

Hey, as long as they're consenting adults, if teabagging is their thing, whatever they do is their business, and I won't ask if they won't tell.

[GreNME]

You cannot live like its 1809 when it is 2009

No, but we can all party like it's 1999.

[dudalb]

I changed my mind.

There are people in this world who, because of their beliefs, need to be kicked around (both figuratively and literally) to keep them in check, lest they ruin civilization.



No. I found out that I should stay right where I am.

I like being "bipolar"--or whatever the hell my so-called problem is. Particularly when all the "normal" people are all to willing to tolerate stupidity in the name of "civility."


Of course insulting and calling people names is a GREAT way to get them to change their minds on topics.
You just get a kick out of insutling people and name calling, and are trying to find some lame excuse for it.
If you are anything in person the way you are here, I bet you have very,very,few friends.

[ponderingturtle]

the repubs dropped the ball when they allowed extremist "xtian" types to take over the party. They removed moderates like me from the party when they switched to these nutjobs and their ideals.

A perfect example of their mindset is the governor of alabama outlawing sex toys in the 21st damned century. With all the drugs and crime and poverty etc the best thing he could raise hell about and dwell on for over a year was whether or not grown adults could buy sex toys for their personal use without rotting in hell for it.

Selling a dildo or vibrator to an adult in Alabama will now cost you 10,000 dollars but you can sell a minor a gun and it will run you 500 bucks.

Makes sense, the gun only endangers lives, vibrators endanger souls.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Of course insulting and calling people names is a GREAT way to get them to change their minds on topics.

What ever gave you the notion that I am out out to "change minds?" They are wrong, that's all there is to it.

This is a war. I don't want to live WITH the conservatives, religionists, and other assorted advocates of woo. I want them destroyed. I want them silenced. I want them marginalized. I want them forgotten.

I want to go the rest of my life without ever hearing from right winger, a Christian, or a new ager ever, ever again.

You just get a kick out of insutling people and name calling, and are trying to find some lame excuse for it.

No, I just have no desire to watch civilization crumble while the "skeptics" have tea and cookies with the people wielding the jackhammers.

If you are anything in person the way you are here, I bet you have very,very,few friends.

To quote my favorite play (not my favorite translation, though):


CYRANO
By dint of seeing you at every turn
Make friends,--and fawn upon your frequent friends
With mouth wide smiling, slit from ear to ear!
I pass, still unsaluted, joyfully,
And cry,--What, ho! another enemy?

LE BRET:
Lunacy!


CYRANO:
Well, what if it be my vice,
My pleasure to displease--to love men hate me!
Ah, friend of mine, believe me, I march better
'Neath the cross-fire of glances inimical!
How droll the stains one sees on fine-laced doublets,
From gall of envy, or the poltroon's drivel!
--The enervating friendship which enfolds you
Is like an open-laced Italian collar,
Floating around your neck in woman's fashion;
One is at ease thus,--but less proud the carriage!
The forehead, free from mainstay or coercion,
Bends here, there, everywhere. But I, embracing
Hatred, she lends,--forbidding, stiffly fluted,
The ruff's starched folds that hold the head so rigid;
Each enemy--another fold--a gopher,
Who adds constraint, and adds a ray of glory;
For Hatred, like the ruff worn by the Spanish,
Grips like a vice, but frames you like a halo!


I'd rather have one or two friends who like me for who I am than a score of "friends" who prefer a socially acceptable facsimile.

[Darth Rotor]

What ever gave you the notion that I am out out to "change minds?" They are wrong, that's all there is to it.

This is a war. I don't want to live WITH the conservatives, religionists, and other assorted advocates of woo. I want them destroyed. I want them silenced. I want them marginalized. I want them forgotten.
I see, Christopher Hitchens is an advocate of woo, now. Glad you alerted me. :p

I want to go the rest of my life without ever hearing from right winger, a Christian, or a new ager ever, ever again.
You can want in one hand, and crap in the other: see which one fills up first. On the other hand, unplug your TV and PC, then stick your fingers in your ears forever, and you may get your wish. :p
No, I just have no desire to watch civilization crumble while the "skeptics" have tea and cookies with the people wielding the jackhammers.
Militancy à outrance sure give you a nice warm feeling inside, doesn't it?
I'd rather have one or two friends who like me for who I am than a score of "friends" who prefer a socially acceptable facsimile.
Nice quotation, a Mark S original. :)
Hell yes, I'm angry! What's more, I'm about to get angry at anyone who isn't angry
That's how lynch mobs get started, and how things like "The Terror" of the French Revolution are sustained.

DR

[Achán hiNidráne]

"Blah, blah, blah... Mark is evil."

Yeah, I get that. :mad:

[GreNME]

Hell yes, I'm angry! What's more, I'm about to get angry at anyone who isn't angry
That's how lynch mobs get started, and how things like "The Terror" of the French Revolution are sustained.

Germane to the thread (and somewhat ironically), that's also how the Tea Party people got started and maintain themselves as well.

[Darth Rotor]

"Blah, blah, blah... Mark is evil."

Yeah, I get that. :mad:
No, you are not evil, you are angry (apparently continuously), which clouds thinking and reasoning.

I've walked many a mile in the Angry Shoes, I know very well what I am talking about. :(

Germane to the thread (and somewhat ironically), that's also how the Tea Party people got started and maintain themselves as well.
Good point.

[GreNME]

I've walked many a mile in the Angry Shoes...

And, you know, you could have been considerate enough to spray Lysol in them when you were done (like they do in bowling alleys), but nooOOOOoo...

[Darth Rotor]

And, you know, you could have been considerate enough to spray Lysol in them when you were done (like they do in bowling alleys), but nooOOOOoo...

Mea maxima culpa. :o

[dudalb]

What ever gave you the notion that I am out out to "change minds?" They are wrong, that's all there is to it.

This is a war. I don't want to live WITH the conservatives, religionists, and other assorted advocates of woo. I want them destroyed. I want them silenced. I want them marginalized. I want them forgotten.

I want to go the rest of my life without ever hearing from right winger, a Christian, or a new ager ever, ever again.



No, I just have no desire to watch civilization crumble while the "skeptics" have tea and cookies with the people wielding the jackhammers.



To quote my favorite play (not my favorite translation, though):



I'd rather have one or two friends who like me for who I am than a score of "friends" who prefer a socially acceptable facsimile.

What is ironic is change a few words and this could have come from a religious fundy.
And I love the way he lumps all "religionist" together.
I would say Mark has issues...big issues.

[Cleon]

What is ironic is change a few words and this could have come from a religious fundy.
And I love the way he lumps all "religionist" together.
I would say Mark has issues...big issues.

More like the whole subscription.

[Darth Rotor]

More like the whole subscription.
Man, I thought the beer in my fridge was cold ... :eye-poppi

Confession: I laughed. Sorry, Mark.

[MattusMaximus]

More like the whole subscription.

Ouch.

[technoextreme]

More like the whole subscription.
Burn!!!!

[BenBurch]

Blowback is a bitch.

:dl:

[BenBurch]

Hmmm...

http://www.irehr.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43:tea-partying-militia-leader-arrested-for-rape-possessing-a-grenade-launcher&catid=9:news&Itemid=23

[Thunder]

Tea Baggers 2010!!!!!

:)

[steve s]

And they're not above turning against Sarah Palin for endorsing McCain in Arizona.

Tea Party activists are rightly outraged by Sarah Palin’s decision to campaign for McCain, whose entrenched incumbency and progressive views are anathema to the movement.

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/01/22/conservatives-beware-of-mccain-regression-syndrome/


And Glenn Beck said that "This Sarah Palin thing really bothers me."

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/26/171255/724

Oh, how quickly they turn.

Steve S

[Skeptic]

To Lehrer ("National Brotherhood Week"): "We all should love our fellow human beings, and I know some people don't love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that".

That's our Mark!

Of course, Lehrer was being deliberately funny.

[a_unique_person]

And they're not above turning against Sarah Palin for endorsing McCain in Arizona.



http://michellemalkin.com/2010/01/22/conservatives-beware-of-mccain-regression-syndrome/


Steve S

Pay attention: In the afterglow of the Massachusetts Miracle, there are flickers of peril for The Right. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but like Paul Revere’s midnight-message, consider this warning “a cry of defiance, and not of fear.” Conservatives have worked hard over the past year to rebuild after Big Government Republican John McCain’s defeat. But McCain isn’t going gently into that good night.


Is this a bad case of overestimating your own self importance?

[Skeptic]

Removed breach of Rule 12

[Skeptic]

Is this a bad case of overestimating your own self importance?

I didn't think you could overestimate self importance. Isn't it by definition true that however good you think you are is your self importance?

[dudalb]

The OP is old news. Republicans have been dissatisfied with the Beltway attitude and spendthrift habits of the hierarchy for some time now.


Problem is the Tea Baggers seem to be rapidly moving in the direction of emphasizing the "Social Agenda" over the Fiscal issues.
That they are now opposing a fiscal conservative like McCain should tell you something.

[AlBell]

Hayworth is beginning to nip at McCain's heels. The final outcome will be a good TeaParty-OldGOP measure.

[dudalb]

And Sarah Palin, Darling of the Tea Baggers, is campaigning for McCain. This is going to get interesting, although I suspect in the end McCain will slaughter Hayworth.
Actually, the higher profiel the Teabaggers get, the better for the Dems in November. The GOP is trying to win back the political Center, and the Tea Baggers ain't gonna help them.
I am not sure the Arizona race is a good indicator of Tea Bagger voting stregth. McCain is simply too strong. Other races with weaker Establishment GOP candidates will be a better indicator.

[Faithkills]

Looks like some chickens are coming home to roost for the Republican Party...

Tea partiers turn on GOP leadership (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28157.html)


This will definitely make the GOP primaries in the spring very interesting. Of course it makes sense why the establishment Republicans are worried: if they swing too far to the right to keep the Tea Party folks in check, they risk pissing off needed moderates & independents to win general elections; however, if they don't cater to the wingnut crowd, they risk getting their asses kicked in the primaries because many in the base have gotten too nutty.

One has to wonder what Ron Paul thinks of all this? One thing's for sure, it is truly entertaining :)

CFL is rather well associated with the movement, which is at it's core about fiscal conservatism and curtailing expansion of government, hence very disgusted with both major parties. Although to be sure a lot of fiscal conservatives are social conservatives as well, but that's not what it's about. If you're a beltway big spending social conservative there's already the GOP you don't need a TP. The GOP would certainly like to paint the TP movement as a GOP movement but it's decidedly not. If you think talking about how pro-life you are and some spending on some new program to 'promote life' that will turn on Teabaggers you're making a mistake. If you want to turn on Teabaggers tell them all about what you won't do, or more specifically won't spend or tell them what you will undo.

So it's a bit invalid to say the TP is 'turning on' the GOP as 1) it never had any love for the GOP in the first place and 2) it's not a monolithic group, it's just a loose (very) association of community groups with a shared philosophy, so no one may really claim leadership.

Though to be sure outfits like FreedomWorks and the GOP (through front groups "Tea Party Express") certainly are trying their best to co-opt it.

[Sporanox]

Problem is the Tea Baggers seem to be rapidly moving in the direction of emphasizing the "Social Agenda" over the Fiscal issues.
That they are now opposing a fiscal conservative like McCain should tell you something.

Where is the evidence that the Tea Partiers are opposing McCain over social issues? More likely they don't like him because of "McShamnesty," McCain-Feingold, flip-flopping on tax cuts, resistance to EITs, and so on.

If you're tilted far towards the right, that adds up to a pretty substantial list. The Socon cause is so far out of the limelight around now it's ridiculous.

[Faithkills]

Problem is the Tea Baggers seem to be rapidly moving in the direction of emphasizing the "Social Agenda" over the Fiscal issues.
That they are now opposing a fiscal conservative like McCain should tell you something.

No one who voted for bailouts or didn't vote against stimulus is going to be near and dear to a Teabagger's heart. Pretty much anyone who voted for them is going to meet TP resistance.

In fact he might be pres today had he the balls to vote against the bailouts. Obama's campaign advisers were worried he might do just that. Fortunately for Obama, McCain showed his loyalty to big money and didn't make Obama do something he really didn't want to do, which was rock the boat himself since he got lots of money from the banks.

But yes the TP movement is all racists and bible thumpers who are going evaporate soon. Mass was a fluke that won't be repeated. Nothing for the embedded interests to worry about at all.. I recommend they discount the Tebaggers completely;)

[dudalb]

The fiscal conservatives who are embracing the TeaBaggers under the idea than they can "control" them, are in for a nasty surprise.
AN if they think the SOcial issues are not a driving force behind the TB movement, they are living in La La land.
What it amount to is there are so anxious to defeat the dems they are willing to support a bunch of borderline crackpots to do it, and are trying to tell themsleves they are not really crackpots.

[Faithkills]

The fiscal conservatives who are embracing the TeaBaggers under the idea than they can "control" them, are in for a nasty surprise.
AN if they think the SOcial issues are not a driving force behind the TB movement, they are living in La La land.

It's certainly helpful for you to believe this:D

But you have no earthly idea what you are talking about.

I'm not embracing Teabaggers I am a Teabagger:D

Not only that I'm on the board of directors for the local group.

I am also an atheist, pro-choice, pro gay and lesbian rights, etc.

I was sharing information I about something I know for fact unlike some people talking out of their asses and have no clue.

[dudalb]

So all that footage I am seeing on TV is because the Big Bad Librul Media is out to get them.
BTW since you seem to be a Libertarian, can I remind you of who well the Libs did in the last election?

[Faithkills]

There's a difference between a Libertarian and a libertarian and a fiscal conservative.

There's certainly a lot of libertarians in the movement and a lot of social conservatives but the one factor they all have is fiscal conservativism. There's already the GOP if you want a place to whine about murdering babies.

If I wanted the GOP and Dems to keep raising debt ceilings then sure I would vote Libertarian.

As I don't and I want reduce the debt we burden our children with because we're so goddamned selfish to get stuff now without working for it yes I and millions of others have chosen to take more effective action.

I mean to say, I and three or four other racist militiaman wackjobs.. definitely nothing for you to worry about, we'll just build our survival shelters and swill our moonshine and get bored with it all soon;)

As for the media, for every over the top sign they highlight there are thousands with a simple message of stop spending and stop the expansion of government, but feel free to consume what you wish.

And even the questionable one's aren't all real. We have to constantly monitor events for people yelling racist comments or bringing out nasty signs just as the TV cameras show up. We have had to develop methods to deal with this and we're getting fairly good at it by now but they occasionally slip one by us.

[JoeTheJuggler]

GOP Reps Blackburn and Bachmann announced today that they were canceling their speaking gigs at the Tea Party Convention.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/28/two-key-tea-party-convention-speakers-cancel/#more-87956

They cited the for-profit status of the Tea Party as a possible problem. They said the House Standards Committee advised them not to participate.

[dudalb]

Real Reason: They don't want to be a associated with what are preceived as a bunch of crackpots.

[Sporanox]

The fiscal conservatives who are embracing the TeaBaggers under the idea than they can "control" them, are in for a nasty surprise.
AN if they think the SOcial issues are not a driving force behind the TB movement, they are living in La La land.
What it amount to is there are so anxious to defeat the dems they are willing to support a bunch of borderline crackpots to do it, and are trying to tell themsleves they are not really crackpots.

How is it that you know so much about the Tea Party movement? Please, name your sources. And evidence. You know, skeptic's resources.

Real Reason: They don't want to be a associated with what are preceived as a bunch of crackpots.

Bachmann has never shied away from controversy. Get a clue, please.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Real Reason: They don't want to be a associated with what are preceived as a bunch of crackpots.

Michele Bachman... doesn't want to be associated with crackpots?

:i:

[MattusMaximus]

Problem is the Tea Baggers seem to be rapidly moving in the direction of emphasizing the "Social Agenda" over the Fiscal issues.
That they are now opposing a fiscal conservative like McCain should tell you something.

Yup, I'll bet anyone here $50 that the social/religious conservatives make a major power play to take over the movement. I think all this "big government is eviiiil!" crap is smoke-and-mirrors. I sense a repeat of what happened to the Reform Party.

[Faithkills]

Michele Bachman... doesn't want to be associated with crackpots?

:i:

Exactly. It's hard to sort out who would do more reputation damage to the other Bachman to Teabaggers or vice versa;) I'm pretty sure she doesn't care at all. I'm pleased she dropped out. Lots of other groups under the TP aegis have also.

They dropped out because because of controversy over for profit status of the organization putting the event on, the price $ $500 excludes almost anyone who is in the movement, and even worse the policy of excluding certain media which is especially repugnant to Teabaggers. Even though the excluded media is mostly left (ie anyone but Fox) it's a really bad sign.

It's just some guy who who called it 'the first national tea party convention' and no one really looked into it until too late. Is a problem that was liable to happen with a very loosely associated collection of groups.

It's very disappointing to many that Palin doesn't drop out. Personally I'm not a Palin fan but many are. I think she's a good person but I can't figure if she's slow or just terrified on camera.

Regardless our group has funded one person to go, which at $500 + hotel and air is a stretch for us as a group, just for the networking opportunities. We'd rather not, but we figured it would be worse to be out of an information loop. I know lots of other groups are doing the same for the same reason. Though I have no doubt some would go anyway just because they are Palin fanbois and fangirls.

[barrymore]

Question: does anyone seriously believe that either of the two political parties are going to make significant changes?

I do not.

It is easy for us in the States to differentiate between the two because our political resolution is so high, and we differentiate where we can. But from a geographical and historical perspective, the parties are pretty much the same, and when an exchange takes place it is merely like for like. For something to happen, it is going to take either a shift on the geopolitical/economic stage (ex: we might get more jobs, but its not going to be because of Republican or Democrats), or it is going to take a radical party on either side.

[JoeTheJuggler]

It's just some guy who who called it 'the first national tea party convention' and no one really looked into it until too late. Is a problem that was liable to happen with a very loosely associated collection of groups.

This sort of thing is getting to be common wrt to Tea Party people and events. I propose calling it the "No True Tea Partisan" fallacy.

[BenBurch]

And then there's this;

http://bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=2&topic_id=457402&mesg_id=457402&listing_type=search