NWO-Boston Chapter Infiltrates Richard Gage Event

[Mr.Herbert]

When I heard that Richard Gage was speaking in Boston. I PM'ed a couple of fellow operatives here at JREF. DGM and I decided we would meet up in Cambridge, Ma in the heart of Harvard Square.

We were unaware of the massive Harvard festival that was happening. Roads were closed and traffic was a nightmare. DGM arrived about 20 minutes prior to me, and was appropriately labeled by the truthers outside the church as a "shill." ;)

Once inside, we were forced to listen to 2 hours of pure filth. I was impressed and disturbed at the amount of people there. I would estimate the number to be around 60-70. I was impressed because I didn't think that many people would show up. I was disturbed because I didn't think that there were that many idiots in my city.

Gage did his unabridged 2 hour version of his slide show. It was filled with the typical crap that he has been peddling for what, 2 years now? DGM and I laughed through about 90% of his filth, and on a few occasions attempted to interrupt him with facts. Gage would not respond and continued his lies.

It was so bad, he actually played the McPadden interview. (the dolt that said he heard a countdown from a Red Cross radio just prior to WTC7 collapse) Gage was going on about it and I shouted out "So, the Red Cross does Controlled Demolitions now"? He briefly hesitated and continued on.

DGM and I sat next to the microphone so that at the end of his rant, we would be able to present some well thought out questions. Well, after three truthers asked questions, they ran out of time.

I was pissed! I sat through 2 hours of his horse (rule 12) and he couldn't stick around to answer questions? So, armed with a 3-ring binder with a printed copy of Ryan Mackey's white paper I approached the little man at his stage. I was very polite and introduced myself. I presented him the binder explaining what it contained. For those of you that are not aware, Gage claims that Dr. Griffin is the one who opened his eyes to 911 CT's. He said after listening to Griffin on the radio, it was "like getting hit in the head with a 2x4." I explained to him that Dr. Griffin was given two copies of this in the past and Dr. Griffin has failed to respond to Mr. Mackey. Gage tried to tell me that Dr. Griffin is not a "technical scientist" so I opened up the binder to read part of page one to him explaining that the paper was refuting the claims made by Dr. Griffin. He told me he would have members of his team read it and contact Ryan Mackey with their questions. He said that they would have to find some time. I told him that he could read it on his 24 hour flight to Sydney Australia next week.

DMG (who was now at the stage with me and several truthers) reminded me about the open letter Greg Urich had sent Gage over a year ago. I handed him a copy of it. Gage said, "Oh, I know Greg." I asked him why he hasn't responded to him. Gage's reply was that he is busy, and that he has "meant to." I then said, "you know he refutes your entire front page of your website." His reply.. "Oh no he doesn't" I told him that he should read it and get back to Greg. He said he would. So Greg, Gage was hand delivered a copy of your open letter to him. He said he would be getting back to you. :rolleyes:

Gage was polite and thanked me for being a "good sport." I shook his hand and walked away. DMG and I were approached after this by many truthers including some of Gage's traveling circus. They presented the same old tired crap you have all heard over and over. We directed most of them here, Mike's 911Myths, Screwloosechange, and Joe's AE911truth.info site.

Gage and company asked for a minimum 10 dollar donation at the door. About 1/2 way through the presentation, he summoned his "ushers" to pass around donation buckets for everyone to put in more money. He pimped his DVD's, Steven Jones DVD's, and was even selling copies of 911 Mysteries. The truthers were unaware that Sophia had doctored the audio and in the middle of getting sued.

All in all, I was glad I was there. I missed seeing my Red Sox eliminated from the playoffs and my Partiot's losing in overtime to the Broncos.

[Grizzly Bear]

I watched a section of the lecture from a link CE posted in the general discussion area and actually took screen shots. I'm curious if you saw one of the pics Gage used in his presentation when he was talking about the molten steel cannard. Because I got a quick glimpse after minimizing my screen to do some of design work and it looked like he took one of those pics right off of the whatreallyhappened website. Can you confirm for me if he actually did that? Because I know WRH has a nasty reputation for using faked photos, especially to support "photographic evidence" for the claim.

[triforcharity]

When I heard that Richard Gage was speaking in Boston. I PM'ed a couple of fellow operatives here at JREF. DGM and I decided we would meet up in Cambridge, Ma in the heart of Harvard Square.

We were unaware of the massive Harvard festival that was happening. Roads were closed and traffic was a nightmare. DGM arrived about 20 minutes prior to me, and was appropriately labeled by the truthers outside the church as a "shill." ;)

Once inside, we were forced to listen to 2 hours of pure filth. I was impressed and disturbed at the amount of people there. I would estimate the number to be around 60-70. I was impressed because I didn't think that many people would show up. I was disturbed because I didn't think that there were that many idiots in my city.

Gage did his unabridged 2 hour version of his slide show. It was filled with the typical crap that he has been peddling for what, 2 years now? DGM and I laughed through about 90% of his filth, and on a few occasions attempted to interrupt him with facts. Gage would not respond and continued his lies.

It was so bad, he actually played the McPadden interview. (the dolt that said he heard a countdown from a Red Cross radio just prior to WTC7 collapse) Gage was going on about it and I shouted out "So, the Red Cross does Controlled Demolitions now"? He briefly hesitated and continued on.

DGM and I sat next to the microphone so that at the end of his rant, we would be able to present some well thought out questions. Well, after three truthers asked questions, they ran out of time.

I was pissed! I sat through 2 hours of his horse (rule 12) and he couldn't stick around to answer questions? So, armed with a 3-ring binder with a printed copy of Ryan Mackey's white paper I approached the little man at his stage. I was very polite and introduced myself. I presented him the binder explaining what it contained. For those of you that are not aware, Gage claims that Dr. Griffin is the one who opened his eyes to 911 CT's. He said after listening to Griffin on the radio, it was "like getting hit in the head with a 2x4." I explained to him that Dr. Griffin was given two copies of this in the past and Dr. Griffin has failed to respond to Mr. Mackey. Gage tried to tell me that Dr. Griffin is not a "technical scientist" so I opened up the binder to read part of page one to him explaining that the paper was refuting the claims made by Dr. Griffin. He told me he would have members of his team read it and contact Ryan Mackey with their questions. He said that they would have to find some time. I told him that he could read it on his 24 hour flight to Sydney Australia next week.

DMG (who was now at the stage with me and several truthers) reminded me about the open letter Greg Urich had sent Gage over a year ago. I handed him a copy of it. Gage said, "Oh, I know Greg." I asked him why he hasn't responded to him. Gage's reply was that he is busy, and that he has "meant to." I then said, "you know he refutes your entire front page of your website." His reply.. "Oh no he doesn't" I told him that he should read it and get back to Greg. He said he would. So Greg, Gage was hand delivered a copy of your open letter to him. He said he would be getting back to you. :rolleyes:

Gage was polite and thanked me for being a "good sport." I shook his hand and walked away. DMG and I were approached after this by many truthers including some of Gage's traveling circus. They presented the same old tired crap you have all heard over and over. We directed most of them here, Mike's 911Myths, Screwloosechange, and Joe's AE911truth.info site.

Gage and company asked for a minimum 10 dollar donation at the door. About 1/2 way through the presentation, he summoned his "ushers" to pass around donation buckets for everyone to put in more money. He pimped his DVD's, Steven Jones DVD's, and was even selling copies of 911 Mysteries. The truthers were unaware that Sophia had doctored the audio and in the middle of getting sued.

All in all, I was glad I was there. I missed seeing my Red Sox eliminated from the playoffs and my Partiot's losing in overtime to the Broncos.

Why, if I had known you two guys were going, I would have showed up in my Sox jersey!!m I took a suprise trip this weekend. WOO HOO!! Gotta love Frequent Flier Miles!!

Anyway, did he do his little exit poll??

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Gage and company asked for a minimum 10 dollar donation at the door. About 1/2 way through the presentation, he summoned his "ushers" to pass around donation buckets for everyone to put in more money.


Let me get this straight...


This event was held in a church, and
Donations were collected in the same manner as is done during church sermons (Roman Catholic, at least)?


I'm not sure how this could be made anymore obvious to truthers: you're part of a religion.

[apathoid]

Serious question: Where is the aptly-named and unemployed Dick Gage getting all of this money to travel around the world? Dude is literally all over the place. Does he charge money to listen to his "talk"? I know that AE911 has an online store(why wouldn't they?) and they expect their members to make donations, but I thought I read something where they made only a fraction of their expected donations. So how is he doing it?

[triforcharity]

There is no telling. You see, any donations are aparently funneled into the Agape Foundation out of California. TAF is a legit 501(c)(3). However, AE911Truth is not. There is no way to tell how much money goes back to AE bs.

Yes, he does collect his own donations. At least, that is what I have heard. Scumbag he is.

ETA: BTW, I have TAF's form 990 from 2007. I can't really understand it though.

[AJM8125]

Serious question: Where is the aptly-named and unemployed Dick Gage getting all of this money to travel around the world? Dude is literally all over the place. Does he charge money to listen to his "talk"? I know that AE911 has an online store(why wouldn't they?) and they expect their members to make donations, but I thought I read something where they made only a fraction of their expected donations. So how is he doing it?

My guess would be that he hits up his members for more money once he's got them on the hook, claiming something like an "action alert1" or "we're this close to [goal] but we need your help!" The NRA used similar tactics when I was a member (which is why I'm no longer a member).

Or like all good con artists, he's got more going on behind the scenes than meets the eye. Think Max Bialystock... eeew.

Now I feel bad for all the widows.

[apathoid]

There is no telling. You see, any donations are aparently funneled into the Agape Foundation out of California. TAF is a legit 501(c)(3). However, AE911Truth is not. There is no way to tell how much money goes back to AE bs.

Yes, he does collect his own donations. At least, that is what I have heard. Scumbag he is.

ETA: BTW, I have TAF's form 990 from 2007. I can't really understand it though.


Yeah, but I just don't see people donating enough for him to do what he has. And how is he living on top of the travelling? His unemployment must have run out by now....
And another question for the tax savvy members, if he is using donations solely to travel around and to live off of, wouldn't he be subject to income tax?

eta:
My guess would be that he hits up his members for more money once he's got them on the hook, claiming something like an "action alert1" or "we're this close to [goal] but we need your help!" The NRA used similar tactics when I was a member (which is why I'm no longer a member).




What do they say? "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." If that's how he's doing it, he won't be able to keep it up. Thankfully.

[triforcharity]

I don't know. I just sent an email to TAF to find out how much goes back to AE911BS. But, the problem is, there is no telling how much he is "paying himself" as they are not a valid NPO.

He is a scumbag none the less. Imagine all the fees he could charage people for thier little membership!??!?!!?!

Damn, if it wasn't for the fact that I have class, and morals,a conscience and all that kinda stuff, I might be intersted in starting my own little scam.

[AJM8125]

What do they say? "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." If that's how he's doing it, he won't be able to keep it up. Thankfully.

Hence the meet-ups. Gotta get those new recruits and fleece'em real fast before they wise up.

[Foolmewunz]

snip

What do they say? "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." If that's how he's doing it, he won't be able to keep it up. Thankfully.


Is that what they say?

Evidence?

[apathoid]

Is that what they say?

Evidence?


Oops, sorry, didn't mean to summon you..:D

[AJM8125]

And the quote is actually "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

[Foolmewunz]

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to summon you..:D

S'okay - it never occurred to me that everyone didn't get what it says until a somewhat legendary poster in this section mentioned after almost two years, "Crud! I just realized what your screen name says!"

ETA: I should have said, "I paraphrase". When I said "legendary", I mean legendary! He's liable to come in here and debunk my statement with the actual quote and link. So let's be clear - I am paraphrasing from memory.

[Hokulele]

Serious question: Where is the aptly-named and unemployed Dick Gage getting all of this money to travel around the world? Dude is literally all over the place. Does he charge money to listen to his "talk"? I know that AE911 has an online store(why wouldn't they?) and they expect their members to make donations, but I thought I read something where they made only a fraction of their expected donations. So how is he doing it?


For this type of speaking tour, pretty often the people hosting the event will pay for the travel expenses and a speaking fee. In other words, the flock is fleeced by the local representatives prior to the presentation, and then again at the presentation. Parasites such as Gage are lucky that fleece grows quickly and fleecing is relatively painless.

ETA: In these cases, only the speaking fee is subject to income tax. Yes, this is based on personal experience.

[Orphia Nay]

:th: Kudos to Mr. Herbert and DGM for presenting Gage with Mr. Mackey's whitepaper and Gregory Urich's open letter.

Shame on Gage for never having read them after all this time. :nope:

Mr. H and DGM, I hope Big Owl gives you a reward for sitting through 2 hours of Gage's BS. I especially hope it's a reward that's better than NWO Agent #357's (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5192939&postcount=824).

[Horatius]

Let me get this straight...


This event was held in a church, and
Donations were collected in the same manner as is done during church sermons (Roman Catholic, at least)?


I'm not sure how this could be made anymore obvious to truthers: you're part of a religion.



That was exactly my thought.


I don't know. I just sent an email to TAF to find out how much goes back to AE911BS. But, the problem is, there is no telling how much he is "paying himself" as they are not a valid NPO.



Here's a question: what sort of expenses would A&ETruth have, beyond Gage's salary? It's not like they're out there engaging in actual research, or anything. All I've ever seen him do is fly about, giving the same talk he's given for years now. And as Hok has mentioned, most of the expenses of those talks were probably covered by the hosts.

Near as I can tell, every other dollar collected would go straight to Gage.

[Orphia Nay]

Good thinking, Horatius.

Near as I can tell, every other dollar collected would go straight to Gage.

But at least every other dollar of that would go to Gage's ex-wife. :)

[AJM8125]

But at least every other dollar of that would go to Gage's ex-wife. :)

Not necessarily under California Law. Gage could be very well sticking his ex for alimony, if he's played his cards right.

I'd be interested in hearing what an IRS agent or attorney would have to say about this thread.

Bwuaaahahahaa!

[Foolmewunz]

And the quote is actually "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Strategery!



Back on topic....

Since Mr. Herbert reports about 70 people, and them asking for a $10 chip-in at the door, let's assume 75% do so. That's about $525.
And let's assume when they pass the plate that the get another, say, $200, and then another $200 in sales (or which $150 is pure profit).

That's $875.00. Not bad for a night's work, but certainly not enough to cover the air tickets, so he'd need to be booking back-to-back-to-back one-nighters. Any idea if he's done Hartford or NYC or Portland (or University towns) in the days or nights surrounding that date?

[Orphia Nay]

That's $875.00. Not bad for a night's work, but certainly not enough to cover the air tickets, so he'd need to be booking back-to-back-to-back one-nighters. Any idea if he's done Hartford or NYC or Portland (or University towns) in the days or nights surrounding that date?

My geography of the NE US is a bit rusty, but this gives some idea of Gage's movements within a certain area.

http://www.ae911truth.org/info/99

Richard Gage, AIA, retraces some of Paul Revere's steps in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, where on Oct 9th he will sound the alarm now about all that we have learned concerning controlled demolitions and nanothermite at the World Trade Center.

[...]

On the evening of Oct 10, Mr. Gage will speak at the First Churches of North Hampton, and again on the following morning there will be another potluck brunch / AE911Truth strategy meeting.

[...]

Perhaps the highlight of this tour will come the next day, October 11, when Mr. Gage will have the rare honor of addressing an audience at the historic First Parish of Cambridge, where George Washington worshiped in 1775.

[Hokulele]

All three of those locations are within a relatively short drive of each other. He could easily have flown in and out of Logan, and done day trips for each event. Portsmouth is a bit of a college town with the University of New Hampshire just up the road in Durham.

[waypastvne]

They are charging 60 dollars at the gate for the Australian tour.



Featuring: Richard Gage (AIA), Dr Steven Jones, Janice Matthews, William Rodriguez (TBC) plus many more!
When: Saturday, 14th of November
Where: Tom Mann Theatre, 136 Chalmers St, Surry Hills (5 mins walk from Central Station)
Time: 9:00 am - 9:00 pm (doors open at 8:30 am for registration)
Cost: Adult $60/Concession $30 - Press and poor free on request.



I should be in Sydney around that time, I want go (I've never seen a twoofer in real life) but I don't want to pay Gage 60$ just so I can laugh at him.
I do have the option to claim I'm poor. But I just can't do it. I'm not a lying scumbag.

[ref]

Let me get this straight...


This event was held in a church, and
Donations were collected in the same manner as is done during church sermons (Roman Catholic, at least)?
I'm not sure how this could be made anymore obvious to truthers: you're part of a religion.

Many of his presentations are in churches. Also, before his 9/11 obsession Gage was a donation counselor for the Unity Center of Spiritual Learning in Walnut Creek back in 2005.

[funk de fino]

Gage really is a lying POS. I don't care how nice he comes across as, his claims and lies are disgusting.

[Foolmewunz]

All three of those locations are within a relatively short drive of each other. He could easily have flown in and out of Logan, and done day trips for each event. Portsmouth is a bit of a college town with the University of New Hampshire just up the road in Durham.

So it's a series of one-nighters and it's damned lucrative, then. I know he can't maintain that sort of schedule but if he can get X number of months with 20/22 dates strung together (just check out the tours of rock bands), he can work alternate months and pull in 100K a year, not counting what he scams raises in on-line appeals to his mailing list.

[Foolmewunz]

Featuring: Richard Gage (AIA), Dr Steven Jones, Janice Matthews, William Rodriguez (TBC) plus many more!
When: Saturday, 14th of November
Where: Tom Mann Theatre, 136 Chalmers St, Surry Hills (5 mins walk from Central Station)
Time: 9:00 am - 9:00 pm (doors open at 8:30 am for registration)
Cost: Adult $60/Concession $30 - Press and poor free on request.


Love the bolded part! Anyone want to hazzard a wild guess as to why Slick Willie hasn't confirmed, yet?

a) Not guaranteed top billing
b) Cannot agree on his fee
c) Conflicting engagement at the World's Greatest Liar's Annual Awards Dinner

[Foolmewunz]

Many of his presentations are in churches. Also, before his 9/11 obsession Gage was a donation counselor for the Unity Center of Spiritual Learning in Walnut Creek back in 2005.

I don't know if it's related to his religious/spiritual leanings so much as it's a good indication that he's a professional hustler and flim flam man.

CIT did their thing in Arlington in a public venue open (for free) to community members, likely sponsored by someone local. I think this is just an indication of the kind of scuttlebutt that makes the rounds in what passes for the counter-culture these days. They all know and inform each other as to what churches and community centers will provide venues for free for persons who are "fighting the man".

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Many of his presentations are in churches. Also, before his 9/11 obsession Gage was a donation counselor for the Unity Center of Spiritual Learning in Walnut Creek back in 2005.

Marvellous.

In addition to his other crimes, Gage is also responsible for perpetuating a negative image of religion and religious people.

[fourtoe]

You and DGM are hardcore for sitting through his presentation for TWO HOURS. Talk about the same old retired crap. I looked at his ppt on line and I'm pretty sure he still is using the two quotes from the two first-responders who saw flashes at WTC 7 and splitting them up into multiple unidentifiable quotes to make it look like there were more people who claimed to have seen flashes.

It sounds like you guys represented the NWO pretty freaking well. The shill is strong in these two.

[~enigma~]

When I heard that Richard Gage was speaking in Boston. I PM'ed a couple of fellow operatives here at JREF. DGM and I decided we would meet up in Cambridge, Ma in the heart of Harvard Square..
Hmm...silent for a month and active again. His wounds healed nicely. Did he have any scars from his suicide attempt with the Moslem version of Dr. Kevorkian?

[Mr.Herbert]

I watched a section of the lecture from a link CE posted in the general discussion area and actually took screen shots. I'm curious if you saw one of the pics Gage used in his presentation when he was talking about the molten steel cannard. Because I got a quick glimpse after minimizing my screen to do some of design work and it looked like he took one of those pics right off of the whatreallyhappened website. Can you confirm for me if he actually did that? Because I know WRH has a nasty reputation for using faked photos, especially to support "photographic evidence" for the claim.

He showed several pictures regarding the molten metal. Again, the same old tired b.s. I'm not sure what photo you are talking about. I may have missed a couple pictures due to checking the Patriots scores.

[ref]

Marvellous.

In addition to his other crimes, Gage is also responsible for perpetuating a negative image of religion and religious people.

To be exact, churches still represent only a minority of his venues. In the last 5 months he has appeared in 5 churches/parishes and 1 mosque. However, he has said more mosques are to come.

To the OP, good job :) I expect him to ignore the papers you gave him, but it was nice you managed to give him the those, he can't say he doesn't know of any criticism.

[Mr.Herbert]

http://richardgageboston.org/

There is a video of the event. I just opened it to the part where he is showing McPadden. You can hear me yell out my comment about the Red Cross... hahahah

[cow_cat]

Serious question: Where is the aptly-named and unemployed Dick Gage getting all of this money to travel around the world?

As ever, the twoof shall set you a fee.

[MarekM]

I knew I should have asked if anyone else was going! We could have united forces!

I went as well and can verify Mr. Herbert's description of the event - particularly the money-grabbing aspect. The signs that were posted suggested a $10 fee to get in. As I walked past the collection table into the church a man blocked the doorway and asked if I had paid. I said I thought it was a suggested donation. He said, still blocking the doorway, "It is, but we really want you to pay." So I said no thanks and walked around him. It was a somewhat uncomfortable moment and if others were treated that way, I wouldn't be surprised if most paid the $10.

Other things I noticed:

The presentation started a half hour late. I think it was clear they wanted more time to drag as many as they could off the street. At 5, when it was supposed to start, only about half of the final number was there.

The professional quality of the presentation was incredibly poor. The sound would occasionally cut out and Gage's videos that he played failed to work at times. I've seen Kent Hovind speak, and was expecting something like that from Gage, but he seemed more like a bumbling lunatic than anything else.

The presentation was horribly long. Lasting about 2.5 hours, starting a half hour late, so I was sitting in this church pew for 3 straight hours - far too long. Some of the people around me were clearly getting tired/bored towards the end.

I lined up to ask a question at the end as well, but two truthers took up the whole question time. One rambled on about god knows what and the other suggested that they should make comedy sketches about office fires.

Overall, I will leave attending his future talks to those braver than me.

[Gnu World Order]

This page (http://richardgageboston.org/donation-greatly-appreciated-to-cover-expenses/) gives a breakdown of the sponsoring organization's expenses (you can donate to help them out, if you want). They spent $800 on flyers and posters to attract people to the event. So if we charitably inflate Mr. Herbert's crowd estimate to 80 people, the publicity cost them $10 per person they actually drew.

[Grizzly Bear]

He showed several pictures regarding the molten metal. Again, the same old tired b.s. I'm not sure what photo you are talking about. I may have missed a couple pictures due to checking the Patriots scores.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5238/steel.png

This one I think is the one I saw on his presentation... I'm really hoping he didn't bring up something that dumb... because it'll make my already abysmal view of that group even worse.

[Seymour Butz]

Good thinking, Horatius.



But at least every other dollar of that would go to Gage's ex-wife. :)


I'm of the opinion that this IS his angle.

Everything goes through AE twoof, and they pay their taxes, but he gets paid little or nothing to avoid having anything to pay his wife. He lives on the road, getting his "expenses" paid for him, which really isn't taxable salary.

Scumbag...

[Mr.Herbert]

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/gage-2.jpg


Here I am (Mr. Herbert) giving Gage the Mackey white paper. I had to read a little of it to him so he could understand.

[Mr.Herbert]

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5238/steel.png

This one I think is the one I saw on his presentation... I'm really hoping he didn't bring up something that dumb... because it'll make my already abysmal view of that group even worse.

Yes, i am 100% certain he showed this picture. It is in his slide show.

[Scott Sommers]

They are charging 60 dollars at the gate for the Australian tour.

I should be in Sydney around that time, I want go (I've never seen a twoofer in real life) but I don't want to pay Gage 60$ just so I can laugh at him.
I do have the option to claim I'm poor. But I just can't do it. I'm not a lying scumbag.

Would Australians really pay that much to see him?

[Scott Sommers]

This video of Australia 911 Truth in 2007 couldn't have more than a handful of people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XZiwkOYXpI

[Mr.Herbert]

Here is a bad picture I took with my NWO-issued blackberry:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/twoofers.jpg

A few more twoofers came in later on. Some actually left before it was over.

[bill smith]

He showed several pictures regarding the molten metal. Again, the same old tired b.s. I'm not sure what photo you are talking about. I may have missed a couple pictures due to checking the Patriots scores.

You were crazy not to bring the debunking director of the jref along with you. He could have repeated his performance of a short while ago.

[bill smith]

Yes, i am 100% certain he showed this picture. It is in his slide show.

Did Richard Gage show this picture of the molten steel in his presentation ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s

[Mr.Herbert]

Did Richard Gage show this picture of the molten steel in his presentation ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s

Hahahaha. No. Interesting how the molten metal had zero effect on rubber tires... huh?

[Grizzly Bear]

I think Gage should have consulted a graphic artist before setting on his molten steel section :rolleyes:

[Horatius]

Hahahaha. No. Interesting how the molten metal had zero effect on rubber tires... huh?



Also interesting that the guy driving seemed to have no problems with just driving right into it, either.

[16.5]

Did Richard Gage show this picture of the molten steel in his presentation ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s

Is the bright sun melting steel somewhere in that video? That would be something, Bill.

[HyJinX]

Did Richard Gage show this picture of the molten steel in his presentation ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Now that's truther comedy.

[McHrozni]

This page (http://richardgageboston.org/donation-greatly-appreciated-to-cover-expenses/) gives a breakdown of the sponsoring organization's expenses (you can donate to help them out, if you want). They spent $800 on flyers and posters to attract people to the event. So if we charitably inflate Mr. Herbert's crowd estimate to 80 people, the publicity cost them $10 per person they actually drew.

Hm, the whole thing seems suspicious:

$500 – Audio Video
$400 – 14′ Screen + Skirt

What they need to buy it every time he speaks somewhere? By now he should have an entire set with him. A rent for one afternoon shouldn't be more 1/10th that, and probably much less.

$800 – Flyers and Posters in Boston

This also seems like an awfully large sum for fliers and posters. OK, maybe, if they were professionally printed and such, and maybe if they paid for poster space ... I don't know prices for these things in Boston.

McHrozni

[Hokulele]

I do have the option to claim I'm poor. But I just can't do it. I'm not a lying scumbag.


See if you can cover the event for an indy newpaper or magazine. That way you can legitimately get a press pass...

...and then publish your thoughts on the event. :cool:

Would Australians really pay that much to see him?


Don't forget, those are little bitty Aussie dollars. I don't know what the exchange rate is these days.

[bill smith]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Now that's truther comedy.

Yes..it makes me laugh too. lol

[PixyMisa]

Don't forget, those are little bitty Aussie dollars. I don't know what the exchange rate is these days.
The bitty Aussie dollar is back up to 90 cents US, thank goodness.

[Hokulele]

The bitty Aussie dollar is back up to 90 cents US, thank goodness.


Wow, it was roughly $2=$1 the last time I was there. No more cheap Aussie beer.

*Sob*

[Dave Rogers]

Did Richard Gage show this picture of the molten steel in his presentation ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s

That's called sunlight, something that can only be experienced by venturing out of your mother's basement. It's a shame YouTube videos can't be nominated for Stundies.

What the hell. I'm nominating it anyway.

Dave

[jhunter1163]

Damn. Beaten to the Stundie again. I gotta step up my game.

[Brainster]

Good job, Mr H! I have linked this at SLC.

[DGM]

You and DGM are hardcore for sitting through his presentation for TWO HOURS. Talk about the same old retired crap. I looked at his ppt on line and I'm pretty sure he still is using the two quotes from the two first-responders who saw flashes at WTC 7 and splitting them up into multiple unidentifiable quotes to make it look like there were more people who claimed to have seen flashes.

It sounds like you guys represented the NWO pretty freaking well. The shill is strong in these two.
Seeing as this was the first time I have encountered a "truther" in this neck of the woods I had no idea what to expect. I questioned something one of them said outside the church and was instantly labeled a "shill". As I waited for Mr Herbert I thought to myself
they could have a big turn out for this (considering the festival just outside). So considering the fact there was thousands of people at their front door 60-70 was a very poor showing.

Once we got inside it was also very apparent the Gage was "preaching to the choir". I believe only three of us "believed the official story". We sat through the first half hour mostly giggling and commenting to ourself but as the boredom set in a the lies piled up it was impossible not to comment (although Gage wanted no part of it).

The fun really began after the show was over. We were approached by several "truthers" wondering what questions we had (although the wanted no part of hearing them), why were we there and so forth. The one guy latched on to me and refuted every thing I said with, "really?????really??????your in denial". I asked him why no explosives were caught on video (after his "normal" reply) he went on about there were "just enough to do the job" and in the core so we wouldn't hear them. Then he switched gears and went on to ask me how everything got "pulverized to dust". After I explain that his idea was a contradiction (not enough to be heard but plenty to dustify) he went back to saying I was "in denial" and stopped making points. Not long after that the "ushers" told us to wrap it up and join them at the after party. After sitting through 3 hours of this crap we wanted nothing to do with that so we respectfully declined. Outside we ran in to two "anti-truthers" with signs with no "truthers" countering.

All in all I was glad I went. I was fun to me another JREFer (operative)outside of the forum. Would I do it again? I doubt it.

[DGM]

I just remembered, Gage made a comment about how NYCCAN was making great strides in starting a new investigation. I would have loved to ask him if he had an update to share with the crowd.:D

[MarekM]

I just remembered, Gage made a comment about how NYCCAN was making great strides in starting a new investigation. I would have loved to ask him if he had an update to share with the crowd.:D

Not sure if you caught it, but the first truther to "ask a question" mentioned that NYCCAN suffered an "unfortunate setback..." :)

[DGM]

Not sure if you caught it, but the first truther to "ask a question" mentioned that NYCCAN suffered an "unfortunate setback..." :)
I missed that, I was on the other side of the room talking to one of Gages "ushers". Were you the third "official story" believer?

[Slayhamlet]

Did Richard Gage show this picture of the molten steel in his presentation ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s

There are, believe it or not, some lengths of stupidity which even Richard Gage will not go to. You found one of them. Good for you.

[MarekM]

I missed that, I was on the other side of the room talking to one of Gages "ushers". Were you the third "official story" believer?

Possibly, I have a feeling Gage missedignored a few hands during his roll call.

[DGM]

Possibly, I have a feeling Gage missedignored a few hands during his roll call.
Yeah, His count of "people with questions" at the beginning was a tad (I'm being nice) high by my estimates.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The signs that were posted suggested a $10 fee to get in. As I walked past the collection table into the church a man blocked the doorway and asked if I had paid. I said I thought it was a suggested donation. He said, still blocking the doorway, "It is, but we really want you to pay." So I said no thanks and walked around him. It was a somewhat uncomfortable moment and if others were treated that way, I wouldn't be surprised if most paid the $10.


Intimidation. Classy.

[apathoid]

Ah, so Gage does basically charge for attendence. It seems like he's got a nice little scam going. I'd hate to have to put in a call to the NWo-IRS Liason Office for a prompt investigation....

[Brainache]

Hmmmm Saturday Nov. 14.... Just a short train ride away..... The Man himself Richard Gage....Possibly even Mr 911 Willy Rodriguez and a handful of Truther Morons.... Might have to see if I can make it down there myself...

[Grizzly Bear]

The lecture did queue me in on one aspect of Gage's claims. It always baffled me why he'd always say that the buildings that fail due to fire should slowly "sag" and I realized finally (finally because I think others here already knew this to at least some extent) that his definition of "failure" stops short of the true critical failure point. Quite a grave error on his part.

[Edx]

The lecture did queue me in on one aspect of Gage's claims. It always baffled me why he'd always say that the buildings that fail due to fire should slowly "sag" and I realized finally (finally because I think others here already knew this to at least some extent) that his definition of "failure" stops short of the true critical failure point. Quite a grave error on his part.

Can you explain for all the n00bs?

[Edx]

Did Richard Gage show this picture of the molten steel in his presentation ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s

I never knew how much molten steel looked exactly line sunshine and shadows. Thanks Bill!

[Grizzly Bear]

Can you explain for all the n00bs?

In the Cardington tests the beams in the mock up sagged which is the creep behavior that we observe when unprotected steel loses strength from the fires. However the mock up didn't reach a point at which it was incapable of carrying it's loads all together, as was the case in the WTC. Gage seems to think that this gradual sagging continues all the way through the point at which the bending stresses induce a complete failure of the columns and beams. This isn't the case; once a structural member is incapable of supporting the loads above it and it buckles it's sudden, not gradual. The bending creates moment around the centroid of the column, and it creates a lever force, the more it bends the faster it fails.

[Edx]

Cool thanks, speaking of Cardington Ive heard Gage say that the tests showed steel performed very well (he was saying this in responce to comparing it to concrete), but what was the actual conclusions of the Cardington tests?

[Grizzly Bear]

Cool thanks, speaking of Cardington Ive heard Gage say that the tests showed steel performed very well (he was saying this in responce to comparing it to concrete), but what was the actual conclusions of the Cardington tests?

http://www.civ.ed.ac.uk/research/fire/cardington.html

The results of their experiments are noted on their website. You'll probably get a lot more out of it than I can explain to you myself. IIRC I think a couple of members here were in one way or another involved with some aspect of the tests as well.

[Brainache]

They are charging 60 dollars at the gate for the Australian tour.
Featuring: Richard Gage (AIA), Dr Steven Jones, Janice Matthews, William Rodriguez (TBC) plus many more!
When: Saturday, 14th of November
Where: Tom Mann Theatre, 136 Chalmers St, Surry Hills (5 mins walk from Central Station)
Time: 9:00 am - 9:00 pm (doors open at 8:30 am for registration)
Cost: Adult $60/Concession $30 - Press and poor free on request.




I should be in Sydney around that time, I want go (I've never seen a twoofer in real life) but I don't want to pay Gage 60$ just so I can laugh at him.
I do have the option to claim I'm poor. But I just can't do it. I'm not a lying scumbag.

Any other JREFers want to go to sunny Surry Hills for the Truth Down Under Spectacular?

I don't want to give them any money either, but hanging around out the front with some actual truth(not Truth) fliers might be worth it...

[waypastvne]

Here's the complete info on the

"Twoofermania Down Under, Big Day Out of the Basement, Head Up Their Oz" Tour.

Staring the Tazzie Map of Twoof..... Richard Gage!

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20091005171302862

[JoeyDonuts]

Man, I'd like to go to one of these wearing a plain black suit/tie. I'd borrow an in-ear monitor from the station here so I could have the OMGNWOWTF!!! wire coming out of my ears.

Then, I'd spend the whole presentation standing in a corner, staring at the various people in attendance, and writing a lot of stuff down.

[R.Mackey]

Cool thanks, speaking of Cardington Ive heard Gage say that the tests showed steel performed very well (he was saying this in responce to comparing it to concrete), but what was the actual conclusions of the Cardington tests?

In the Cardington tests, the columns were fire insulated. There were no long-span trusses, or even long-span beams, but instead a regular post and beam construction.

Even so, the structure was heavily damaged by the test fire, and had to be carefully demolished afterwards.

Lots of past discussion on Cardington here. The quick-and-dirty takeaway is that "ordinary" fire does indeed heat steel, particularly uninsulated steel, well beyond the temperature needed for creep to set in after a short period of time.

For a better simulation that matches the Towers, read NCSTAR1-5E, and marvel at the temperatures produced in those tests.

[Brainache]

Man, I'd like to go to one of these wearing a plain black suit/tie. I'd borrow an in-ear monitor from the station here so I could have the OMGNWOWTF!!! wire coming out of my ears.

Then, I'd spend the whole presentation standing in a corner, staring at the various people in attendance, and writing a lot of stuff down.

I imagine occasionally muttering something like, "Subject observed mumble mumble 237 in progress mumble mumble decoy deployed mumble mumble confirmed", into your sleeve might also be fun.

I'd also like to ask Dr Jones if his Mormon conscience is troubled by all of the deliberate deception he has been guilty of these past few years.

[BigAl]

Ah, so Gage does basically charge for attendence. It seems like he's got a nice little scam going. I'd hate to have to put in a call to the NWo-IRS Liason Office for a prompt investigation....

Hey. it's worked for Rev. Al Sharpton for years and he wears suits he doesn't own that cost what it takes Gage a few months to earn, if Gage were getting any income.

[Horatius]

In the Cardington tests the beams in the mock up sagged which is the creep behavior that we observe when unprotected steel loses strength from the fires. However the mock up didn't reach a point at which it was incapable of carrying it's loads all together, as was the case in the WTC. Gage seems to think that this gradual sagging continues all the way through the point at which the bending stresses induce a complete failure of the columns and beams. This isn't the case; once a structural member is incapable of supporting the loads above it and it buckles it's sudden, not gradual. The bending creates moment around the centroid of the column, and it creates a lever force, the more it bends the faster it fails.



Yes, people like him seem never to have seen actual structures collapse. Here in Ottawa, Carleton University's distance education cable channel used to show videos from a "bridge building" engineering class, that involved loading the model bridges that students built until they failed. I've tried to find these videos online, to no avail.

Almost all failed just as you described - a gradual creep until one component suffered a catastrophic failure, at which point, the whole thing came down at "freefall speeds". They showed views from above and the side, so you could get a sense of how the structure was moving in all dimensions, and followed up with a slow motion analysis, so you could see exactly where the critical failure occurred.

Fun to watch!

[nagasama]

Man, I'd like to go to one of these wearing a plain black suit/tie. I'd borrow an in-ear monitor from the station here so I could have the OMGNWOWTF!!! wire coming out of my ears.

Then, I'd spend the whole presentation standing in a corner, staring at the various people in attendance, and writing a lot of stuff down.


hilarious. please do, and film it for our viewing pleasure.

[stewieg]

Gage and company asked for a minimum 10 dollar donation at the door. About 1/2 way through the presentation, he summoned his "ushers" to pass around donation buckets for everyone to put in more money. He pimped his DVD's, Steven Jones DVD's, and was even selling copies of 911 Mysteries. The truthers were unaware that Sophia had doctored the audio and in the middle of getting sued.

No one is suprised by the money aspect I would imagine. There's DRG who keeps pimping one book after another, more of the same rehashed ****. Rob Balsamo asking for donations via Pay Pal, have to keep the refrigerator stocked with beer. And of course Dylan Avery with yet another LC movie, in some sort of bizzare attempt to get noticed by Hollywood.

[DGM]

Gage and company asked for a minimum 10 dollar donation at the door. About 1/2 way through the presentation, he summoned his "ushers" to pass around donation buckets for everyone to put in more money.

.

I think it was the promoter (Greater Boston Alliance for 9/11 truth) that was charging and collecting (with Gages blessing). Gage himself got $500 plus airfare.



http://richardgageboston.org/donation-greatly-appreciated-to-cover-expenses/

(hat tip to ScrewLoose Change)

[Mr.Herbert]

Yes sir, it seems Gage get's $500 for "speaking" plus travel arrangements.

[RepresentativePress]

I posted a link to my videos debunking gage on the richard gage boston streaming video page but it still says "Your comment is awaiting moderation."

I can't post links in this forum yet but you can Google the title of my videos to find them: "Gage Tells 9/11 Lies, See Bowing Debunks 'Controlled Demolition"
and "WTC 7's structural integrity and its footprint"
I'll be making a new video soon. Please subscribe to my Youtube channel and e-mail list to help boost efforts to expose liars like Gage.

[TruthersLie]

RepresentativePress... welcome to Jref.

[McHrozni]

I posted a link to my videos debunking gage on the richard gage boston streaming video page but it still says "Your comment is awaiting moderation."

I can't post links in this forum yet but you can Google the title of my videos to find them: "Gage Tells 9/11 Lies, See Bowing Debunks 'Controlled Demolition"
and "WTC 7's structural integrity and its footprint"
I'll be making a new video soon. Please subscribe to my Youtube channel and e-mail list to help boost efforts to expose liars like Gage.

I'd love to, but too many if not all of your videos come off as a cheap commercial for your web site. Cut down on that advertising bit, which is often 1/4 to 1/3 of the video (use 1/10th at most), and I'll certainly watch more of it. I imagine others will agree with me.

McHrozni

[Orphia Nay]

The video RepresentativePress talks about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10YTDOdyju0
Less than the last 10 seconds are an ad for his site, but I haven't watched any of his other vids.

ETA: Welcome to the forum, RP. :)

[McHrozni]

The video RepresentativePress talks about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10YTDOdyju0
Less than the last 10 seconds are an ad for his site, but I haven't watched any of his other vids.

Aha, maybe the newer videos are better. I've seen some of his videos a while ago, and they came out as an ad. I'll check some of these later :)

McHrozni

[DGM]

He is so full of crap.

# OF ARCHITECTS ATTENDED: 2
# OF ENGINEERS ATTENDED: 13
# UNAWARE OF WTC 7: 6


Show of hands results Before After
Believe fires brought down buildings: 15 3
Unsure: 36 5
Believe in explosive controlled demolition: 127 170
Number of people who attended presentation: 178
http://www.ae911truth.org/speakings.php#speakpast

Besides being a hack, He can't count.

[Klimax]

I apparently miss something,what is the problem?

[Mr.Herbert]

I apparently miss something,what is the problem?

The douche does not know how to count. There were 78 people there... TOPS. Where the hell he found the other 100, I can't tell you.

This picture was taken about 5-10 minutes prior to starting his *ahem* presentation. It does not show the entire church, but it does give you some idea.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/twoofers.jpg

[McHrozni]

The douche does not know how to count. There were 78 people there... TOPS. Where the hell he found the other 100, I can't tell you.

This picture was taken about 5-10 minutes prior to starting his *ahem* presentation. It does not show the entire church, but it does give you some idea.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/twoofers.jpg

I count about 30 people in the picture. Can you give us an estimate as to how large portion of the church did the picture cover?

McHrozni

[16.5]

He is so full of crap.


http://www.ae911truth.org/speakings.php#speakpast

Besides being a hack, He can't count.

Uh far be it for me to call out another member of this web site, but you are WRONG:

"Show of hands results Before/After"

You appear to have failed to realize that most people have TWO hands!

[Grizzly Bear]

Yes, people like him seem never to have seen actual structures collapse. Here in Ottawa, Carleton University's distance education cable channel used to show videos from a "bridge building" engineering class, that involved loading the model bridges that students built until they failed. I've tried to find these videos online, to no avail.

Almost all failed just as you described - a gradual creep until one component suffered a catastrophic failure, at which point, the whole thing came down at "freefall speeds". They showed views from above and the side, so you could get a sense of how the structure was moving in all dimensions, and followed up with a slow motion analysis, so you could see exactly where the critical failure occurred.

Fun to watch!
We were supposed to do a similar project for structures 1 when I was taking it in the spring of 2006 but the instructor was rather crappy and we never got assigned this sort of project. He did show us examples of those projects though, and I could swear I've seen videos like those before... I'll have to see if I can find them again.

[Klimax]

The douche does not know how to count. There were 78 people there... TOPS. Where the hell he found the other 100, I can't tell you.

This picture was taken about 5-10 minutes prior to starting his *ahem* presentation. It does not show the entire church, but it does give you some idea.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/CameronFox/twoofers.jpg
Ok,I think I get it.
Uh far be it for me to call out another member of this web site, but you are WRONG:

"Show of hands results Before/After"

You appear to have failed to realize that most people have TWO hands!

Now it makes complete sense... :D

[Mr.Herbert]

I count about 30 people in the picture. Can you give us an estimate as to how large portion of the church did the picture cover?

McHrozni

At least 2/3. In all fairness, more people showed up.But, no where NEAR the 178 that his website claims. Just another lie from this P.O.S.

[DGM]

Uh far be it for me to call out another member of this web site, but you are WRONG:

"Show of hands results Before/After"

You appear to have failed to realize that most people have TWO hands!
This still does not wash. Between myself, Mr Herbert and MarekM there are six hands (only counted as three). I think my defense rests.:D

[fourtoe]

You guys are forgetting the Truther mutants who have up to 5 hands.


Are you guys gonna call Gage out in anyway about this?

[DGM]

You guys are forgetting the Truther mutants who have up to 5 hands.


Are you guys gonna call Gage out in anyway about this?
Way ahead of you. I sent an email to him as soon as I saw it. I'll let you know when (if) he replies.

[McHrozni]

At least 2/3. In all fairness, more people showed up.But, no where NEAR the 178 that his website claims. Just another lie from this P.O.S.

In that case, 178 people would make the place outright packed. 78 is probably a good "best case" scenario (from Gages' perspective).

McHrozni

[Mr.Herbert]

One more thing to point out. If you look at the picture I posted above. Those young kids directly to the right, all left after about an hour. How did the count remain at 178 if those 3 (maybe 4) were gone prior to the second count?

[DGM]

One more thing to point out. If you look at the picture I posted above. Those young kids directly to the right, all left after about an hour. How did the count remain at 178 if those 3 (maybe 4) were gone prior to the second count?
About midway through (as you know I was bored out of my skull) I counted 85. I emailed Gage to explain this discrepancy.

[Mr.Herbert]

About midway through (as you know I was bored out of my skull) I counted 85. I emailed Gage to explain this discrepancy.

I was probably checking the Pats-Bronco's score while you were counting! :D

[DGM]

A responce from Gage:
Me
Hi Richard:

I was at your Cambridge MA appearance and I have a question as to how you came up with 178 people at that event. I personally counted 85

Gage:

I think that number was incorrect and has already been corrected. If not then Tania will correct it shortly. Thank you!

Me:
I was with the guy that gave you Ryan Mackay and Gregory Urichs papers (hows that reply going?).

Gage:

We are completely slammed with critical path coordination, traveling, and writing. We’ll get to the response to the letter(s) when we can.

Thanks again,
Richard


There you have it.

[Mr.Herbert]

WOW!

I am shocked! He responded??!!! He admitted to a mistake?

Quick check the temperature in Hades!

[Mr.Herbert]

Gage:

We are completely slammed with critical path coordination, traveling, and writing. We’ll get to the response to the letter(s) when we can.



Hahaha.. looks like some of his slides will have CIT or PFFFT dribble coming soon!

[DGM]

WOW!

I am shocked! He responded??!!! He admitted to a mistake?

Quick check the temperature in Hades!
Actually if you email him directly he does actually respond. for all it's worth. If you want his address let me know.

[fourtoe]

Actually if you email him directly he does actually respond. for all it's worth. If you want his address let me know.


I would like it if you could send me his address.

When Gravy debated him, right before Gage rocked our worlds with his cardboard box demo, they were talking about eye witnesses who saw flashes (.: explosions). Gage took quotes from only two people out of all the witnesses and split them up into multiple, unidentified quotes to make it look like more people saw flashes at WTC.

Gage TOTALLY weaseled out of having to address that and even got help from Clifton (the host) in changing the subject.

I looked through Gage's ppt he has on his site and he STILL does this unidentified quote thing. That debate was over a year ago. Basically that is unacceptable (http://www.dolland.net/loveline/sound/drops/unacceptable.mp3).

[DGM]

I would like it if you could send me his address.

When Gravy debated him, right before Gage rocked our worlds with his cardboard box demo, they were talking about eye witnesses who saw flashes (.: explosions). Gage took quotes from only two people out of all the witnesses and split them up into multiple, unidentified quotes to make it look like more people saw flashes at WTC.

Gage TOTALLY weaseled out of having to address that and even got help from Clifton (the host) in changing the subject.

I looked through Gage's ppt he has on his site and he STILL does this unidentified quote thing. That debate was over a year ago. Basically that is unacceptable (http://www.dolland.net/loveline/sound/drops/unacceptable.mp3).
I received an email from Gage asking me not to share his address, At one time it was public (on his site) but apparently this is no longer the case.

[fourtoe]

aw raspberries.

[Orphia Nay]

Good work, DGM! :)

[ref]

Gage reports your efforts in his news update:

Afterwards, only three people maintained their firm belief in the official story, and five people were left unsure. By the speed of the raised hands and interesting conversation afterwards it became readily apparent that the three were 9/11 "debunkers." One brought a three-ring binder, ¾" thick, filled with responses to David Ray Griffin's Debunking 911 Debunking book, along with a letter from the confused Gregory Urich, a former AE911Truth petition signer requesting a response. AE911Truth will forward the binder to Dr. Griffin and issue a response to the letter.

http://www.ae911truth.org/info/105



So Greg is confused, ha? Let's see what happens, don't hold your breath. :)

[R.Mackey]

Looks like your garden-variety punt to me. Dr. Griffin has had a copy of my whitepaper ever since November, 2007, after he wrote to me and requested it. Since then he's never said a word about it, and ran from a hard copy in Japan. I don't expect him to respond this time just because Richard Gage forwarded it.

The response to Gregory's open letter should also be amusing, assuming he follows through this time. That letter has been out for a while.