Scapegoating in CT's

[Juniversal]

In most CT's, scapegoating is part and parcel of a Conspiracy Theory. I think the behavior stems from the fact the world can be an extremely unpredictable place and some take solace in being able to attribute all their problems to some faceless entity, which if it didn't exist, would give way to utopia. Whether that entity be the NWO, the illuminati, "The JEWS", freemasons or some other faceless minion. I imagine it comforts some to know that their problems aren't a result of the unpredictable world (which in reality, it is) but some moveable object/entity. You know what they say. Reality is often times stranger then fiction.

I also think secrecy is a factor. When a powerful body like the government (or one as harmless as the masons) meet in secret (Bohemian Grove, the bilderbergs) it allows the imagination to run wild and create all sorts of nefarious going ons especially when you connect dots that weren't meant to be connected (for example one i've heard in short, Presidents were Masons, Masons were on the board to create the seal on the dollar bill, there's a 6 point star/a hidden owl on the dollar=Masons are demonic and the Presidents are trying to destroy us, ect.).

Any thoughts or oppinions on this behavior?

[Thunder]

In most CT's, scapegoating is part and parcel of a Conspiracy Theory. I think the behavior stems from the fact the world can be an extremely unpredictable place and some take solace in being able to attribute all their problems to some faceless entity, which if it didn't exist, would give way to utopia. Whether that entity be the NWO, the illuminati, "The JEWS", freemasons or some other faceless minion. I imagine it comforts some to know that their problems aren't a result of the unpredictable world (which in reality, it is) but some moveable object/entity. You know what they say. Reality is often times stranger then fiction.

I also think secrecy is a factor. When a powerful body like the government (or one as harmless as the masons) meet in secret (Bohemian Grove, the bilderbergs) it allows the imagination to run wild and create all sorts of nefarious going ons especially when you connect dots that weren't meant to be connected (for example one i've heard in short, Presidents were Masons, Masons were on the board to create the seal on the dollar bill, there's a 6 point star/a hidden owl on the dollar=Masons are demonic and the Presidents are trying to destroy us, ect.).

Any thoughts or oppinions on this behavior?

all extremist and authoritarian movements need a scapegoat. the Nazis had Jews, gays, Poles, and Communists. the Soviets had Jews, Capitalists, the Church, land owners, and other Communists.

[grandthefttoaster]

You are describing one type of conspiracy theory, which I like to call a meta-conspiracy theory. The theory is that there is some group that secretly controls the world, and/or has evil plans to change the world. I think that these conspiracy theories are based off peoples fears of other groups.

Then there is another type of conspiracy theory, the event conspiracy theory. When some world changing event happens, like the JFK assaination or 9/11, these theories are created to give an alternate explanation of what happened. Usually the meta-conspiracy theorists believe some of these too, such as people who say that the NWO really controls the world, and also was responsible for 9/11. However, they aren't always linked, for example, people who believe that Castro sent Oswald to kill JFK have different reasons to think that, not because they are afraid that Cubans secretly rull the world.

[Juniversal]

You are describing one type of conspiracy theory, which I like to call a meta-conspiracy theory. The theory is that there is some group that secretly controls the world, and/or has evil plans to change the world. I think that these conspiracy theories are based off peoples fears of other groups.

Then there is another type of conspiracy theory, the event conspiracy theory. When some world changing event happens, like the JFK assaination or 9/11, these theories are created to give an alternate explanation of what happened. Usually the meta-conspiracy theorists believe some of these too, such as people who say that the NWO really controls the world, and also was responsible for 9/11. However, they aren't always linked, for example, people who believe that Castro sent Oswald to kill JFK have different reasons to think that, not because they are afraid that Cubans secretly rull the world.Personally I don't think it's as much as fear of other groups (are anti-semites actually fear Jews? I doubt it. Unless you believe xenophobia produces the behavior in the first place.) as much as it's giving someone comfort in knowing the world is more malleable then it really is (if I can change this one thing everything would be perfect). If I can expose "the NWO" then the government can run free of corruption and serve the best interest of man.

Or with white nationalist or other holocaust denying racist groups, it tends to be something to the effect of "if we can expose the Jews we can live in a monochromatic society free of apparent jew influenced multi-culturalism". Again. If I change this one thing everything would be perfect. I agree with your second assessment though.

all extremist and authoritarian movements need a scapegoat. the Nazis had Jews, gays, Poles, and Communists. the Soviets had Jews, Capitalists, the Church, land owners, and other Communists.Agreed. Nazi Germany was the epitome of the behavior.

[grandthefttoaster]

Personally I don't think it's as much as fear of other groups (are anti-semites actually fear Jews? I doubt it. Unless you believe xenophobia produces the behavior in the first place.) as much as it's giving someone comfort in knowing the world is more malleable then it really is (if I can change this one thing everything would be perfect). If I can expose "the NWO" then the government can run free of corruption and serve the best interest of man.

Or with white nationalist or other holocaust denying racist groups, it tends to be something to the effect of "if we can expose the Jews we can live in a monochromatic society free of apparent jew influenced multi-culturalism". Again. If I change this one thing everything would be perfect. I agree with your second assessment though.



I agree, I just wanted to point out that there is one kind of conspiracy theory that is mainly based off emotions, and people needing to feel like an evil group secretly ruling the world, as well as smaller conspiracy theories that might have different reasons for existing.

[JoeyDonuts]

From what I've seen, it's the heartfelt and unshakeable belief that an organized and nefarious "THEM" is suppressing and manipulating "US."

Were this evil organization to be unmasked and removed, everything could be solved, since these folks tend to take a rather myopic, simplistic, and rose-colored view of people and their motivations. That's why you see them bundled together with New Age consciousness gobbledygook, especially from the older ones who were around long enough ago to remember Timothy Leary.

I've got an interesting psychological take on it. The grand consciousness revolution at the twilight of the sixties died out. They managed to mobilize, but didn't do anything with it other than getting really high, twirling in circles, and ******** in pastures. Some of them would have you believe it was suppessed and destroyed by Majestic 12, Hoover, what have you. Granted, certain elements of the US Gov't did engage in some rather shady things - giving fuel to the conspiracist thinking. This is very similar IMHO to Dubya-era secrecy and shenanigans fueling the 9/11 CTs.

At any rate, these folks saw their revolution crumble and die, not from government intervention - but disinterest, needing to eat, and the unstoppable march of that rat bastard called reality. (Although I'm certain they were tracked and monitored like every other group Hoover didn't like...) However, you've spent so much of your emotional capacity into feeling this thing, you can't possibly bear the thought of the *squares* being right about this. They don't feel the energy you do, how could they possibly understand?

Their failings and the failings of the counterculture movement as a whole become intertwined.

Ere go, their own failings are the fault of the same mysterious government entity that is stalking and thwarting them at every turn.

Some of these folks are beyond redemption. You'll see them at state fairs working in naturopathy booths, hawking crystals to the latest generation of spiritually confused children rebelling against their suppressive Fundie Christian parents. Nothing better to freak out the 'rents than a brand new pewter pentacle to go along with the goth paint and 26-year old boyfriend, right?

We've seen a good number of the 9/11 Truth movement finally see it for what it is, and come to the fold of rational, critical thinking. I'm thankful for every single one. Due to the pseudoscientific nature of 9/11 claims, I think it's easier to pull someone back from that belief system than one who's got the better part of his or her life inexorably wrapped up in New Age-soaked conspiracism. You can get a 9/11 conspiracist to look at things objectively, and when they do that they see why the science just doesn't hold up. That's an inroad you just didn't have with the older crowd.

[Jontg]

And the grand irony is, if those people just had a little more perspective, looked at the long-term impact of their movement, they'd see that they won. Gay rights, civil rights, sexual freedom and multiculturalism and yes, pure, uncut woo oozing unchecked throughout Western civilization--this is their legacy. I wonder if psychedelic drugs do that to you...

[JoeyDonuts]

Well, they weren't the only ones. There were plenty of folks that marched with Dr. King, and they didn't need lysergic acid all over their brain to convince them it was the right thing to do.

I'd say that the the Civil Rights movement in this country, in terms of lasting impact, trumps anything accomplished by people tuning in and dropping out.

[Juniversal]

You can get a 9/11 conspiracist to look at things objectively, and when they do that they see why the science just doesn't hold up. That's an inroad you just didn't have with the older crowd.That's the hard part. 9/11 truth is essentially a religion where faith and incredulity is more important then facts (demonstrated by constituents like Richard Gage and David Ray Griffin who continue to push long debunked theories). It's like wearing a blind fold is neccesary for membership. As science will tell you, being objective is a fairly important part of any investigation, which 9/11 truth is essentially devoid of.

And the grand irony is, if those people just had a little more perspective, looked at the long-term impact of their movement, they'd see that they won. Gay rights, civil rights, sexual freedom and multiculturalism and yes, pure, uncut woo oozing unchecked throughout Western civilization--this is their legacy. I wonder if psychedelic drugs do that to you...Yea that's always funny to me. Reminds me of the individuals who say "America used to be a great country!!!". When? During the Vietnam era when race riots flared up around the entire country? Or was it in the turbulant civil rights movement or WWII era where millions died in the war and the Japanese were thrown in internment camps? Or maybe when segregation was still legal and we were in the grips of the great depression??

In reality this is probably (relatively speaking) the most stable, fair, inclusive and FREE America has ever been. It seems some love to believe they're living in a society where they have no rights. Maybe the need to be introduced into a real socially and politically opressive society to see what being stripped of liberty REALLY feels like. They'd be begging to come back to America. ;)

[taiyo]

@JoeyDonuts - someone I know has become utterly lost in a spiral of conspiracy thories and I've been struggling to understand why (which brought me to this forum), and I think you've summed him up in a nutshell! Ageing hippie, with sudden realisation that a lifetime of alternative living, drugs and sporadic jobs has left him with no money, no pension and no major success at anything, while his fellow ageing hippie friends all grew up, got interesting jobs, live in nice houses with their nice families, and look on him a little patronisingly. I think a lot of it springs from feeling marginalised and feeling penalised for failing to conform. Maybe it's easier to blame some vague organisation for oppressing you than to deal with the life decisions you made. I'm also convinced there is a strong element of "I know something you don't"/"I'm special" (therefore if I didn't do well at school/work it's the system's fault)

There's also got to be a lot of arrogance in refusing to accept other people might know more than you, or that you might be wrong. E.g. if I meet an expert in something, I want to take the opportunity to learn something from them. If the person I know meets an expert, he wants to impress them with his alternative theories on their specialist area ("They won't listen because they're closed-minded" rather than "I don't know much about this"). I'm guessing this is a common CTer trait...

[JoeyDonuts]

Sorry to hear that, taiyo. Sounds like your friend's got a lot of ego wrapped up in it as well - another fairly common CT trait.

I think a lot of the same issue we see in the younger 9/11 CT crowd stems from the education system here in the United States. Its standards are atrocious, and yet the kids are mollycoddled for the most average of work. These kids are the same ones who grew up being told how smart they were, and never being held to a rigid standard. They skated by on effort, which according to a lot of school boards in the US, was more than enough. Let's make sure they always feel like a valued and respected member of society without actually requiring the achievement that makes that possible.

Ere go, you have 17-year old kids that come on the internet or street corners and think their cursory 9/11 CT-influenced grasp of scientific concepts is superior or at least equal to people who do it for a living.

Madness, I tell you.

[Juniversal]

@JoeyDonuts - someone I know has become utterly lost in a spiral of conspiracy thories and I've been struggling to understand why (which brought me to this forum), and I think you've summed him up in a nutshell! Ageing hippie, with sudden realisation that a lifetime of alternative living, drugs and sporadic jobs has left him with no money, no pension and no major success at anything, while his fellow ageing hippie friends all grew up, got interesting jobs, live in nice houses with their nice families, and look on him a little patronisingly. I think a lot of it springs from feeling marginalised and feeling penalised for failing to conform. Maybe it's easier to blame some vague organisation for oppressing you than to deal with the life decisions you made. I'm also convinced there is a strong element of "I know something you don't"/"I'm special" (therefore if I didn't do well at school/work it's the system's fault)

There's also got to be a lot of arrogance in refusing to accept other people might know more than you, or that you might be wrong. E.g. if I meet an expert in something, I want to take the opportunity to learn something from them. If the person I know meets an expert, he wants to impress them with his alternative theories on their specialist area ("They won't listen because they're closed-minded" rather than "I don't know much about this"). I'm guessing this is a common CTer trait...Those definitely can be elements that compell some to subscribe to these CT's. Feeling like you're one of the few "in the know" can make you feel powerful in a way. It's that desire for control, need to feel significant, or "need to know" that's a common element of conspiracy theories.

[Thunder]

Yea that's always funny to me. Reminds me of the individuals who say "America used to be a great country!!!". When? During the Vietnam era when race riots flared up around the entire country? Or was it in the turbulant civil rights movement or WWII era where millions died in the war and the Japanese were thrown in internment camps? Or maybe when segregation was still legal and we were in the grips of the great depression??


ahhh...the good ol' days.

[quarky]

Stupid hippies.

Tim Leary, the little hissy-fitter, was the epitomy of the type of 'them' that really drives home the point of the them and us-ness of the typical hippy mind-set.

Die, hippies!

Make lsd illegal again!

[Juniversal]

ahhh...the good ol' days.Ahh yes. The good ole days when one could wear his sheet without fear of persecution. :D

And i'm going to use the term "whipping boy entity" for those existent/non-existent groups frequently scapegoated such as "the NWO", the illuminati, "The JEWS" the Freemasons ect.