Why truthers are dangerouse!

[911kongen]

Im making a youtube video about why I think truthers are dangerouse. Im in the prosess of making this film, so if some one have any advice, please tell me! :) Here is the opening!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4be-k6yhVE

[Brainache]

One tiny piece of advice: It's spelled: "dangerous".

[911kongen]

One tiny piece of advice: It's spelled: "dangerous".

Thank you! That was a good advice! ;) Please tell me if I have something else wrong. I need it! So it will be fixed in the film..

[Audible Click]

I would help you but you called Unsecured Coins a truther. :(

[911kongen]

I would help you but you called Unsecured Coins a truther. :(

I said I guess! He thinks people saying no one died at WTC does not exist.. when we all know many still believes in the hologram theory! To me that sounded like a truther that dont whant to hear about the old theories! If he is not a truther than I was wrong in my GUESSING...

[Audible Click]

You were very, very wrong in your guessing.

[Thunder]

Truthers are no more dangerous then anarchists or Neo-Nazis.

Two years ago, I thought that they were a lot more of a big deal.

Now, I think Truthers are seeing their sun set.

[JoeyDonuts]

If he is not a truther than I was wrong in my GUESSING...

Truthers guess.

Skeptics verify.

Maybe you should get all your ducks in a row before you release your video.

[Panoply_Prefect]

It's also spelled "imminent", not "immanent" (2.18 into the clip), and "want", not "whant".

On my computer the audio is out-of-sync.

I'm guessing your goal is to compile a video of all documented expressions of violence from the truthers, am I right? If so, I think you need to make sure you portray documentations of truthers, not just "New Order" - conspiracists in general.

[JihadJane]

Thank you! That was a good advice! ;) Please tell me if I have something else wrong. I need it! So it will be fixed in the film..

Truthers aren't dangerous.

[sylvan8798]

Tell that to the families of Richard Poplawski's victim's in Pittsburgh, and James von Brunn's victim's in Washington, JJ.

[A.A. Alfie]

Not all truthers are dangerous - some I imagine - are quite benign;
'Extremist' truthers are dangerous.

[JihadJane]

Tell that to the families of Richard Poplawski's victim's in Pittsburgh, and James von Brunn's victim's in Washington, JJ.


Tell that to your logic teacher.

[Macgyver1968]

Tell that to your logic teacher.

I did...he said my NOR gates were working fine. :) (technician humor)

[911kongen]

It's also spelled "imminent", not "immanent" (2.18 into the clip), and "want", not "whant".

On my computer the audio is out-of-sync.

I'm guessing your goal is to compile a video of all documented expressions of violence from the truthers, am I right? If so, I think you need to make sure you portray documentations of truthers, not just "New Order" - conspiracists in general.

Yepp! Thank you! :) I guess I have to let somone that speak english help me with it.. But this is just a short clip i whanted to show before I was done, so maby someone could help me with info, and new clips! The last thing im gonna do is fix my spelling mistakes, but i should have done it with this trailer, it takes the fokus away from the film.. So sorry about that!

[Brattus]

Truthers are a dieing breed. Only the extreme nut jobs are left.
No one really cares what they have to say.
Truthers are not dangerous, just annoying.

[Brainache]

Thats so funny since skeptice still have no real evidence of what happened on 9/11 since the official FBI/NTSB crime scene reports have not been released.

Also anyone who still believes the official story cannot think for themselves and does not have the common sense to see all the mistakes in the official story.

I guess you came to these conclusions by thinking for yourself Mr Phixer? Or did you just swallow a whole bunch of stupid lies from a lot of paranoid conspiracy websites?

You see the problem is that very many highly experienced professionals worked long and hard to come up with the evidence based narrative that you call the "Official Story". The CTs are just a whole lot of rubbish that a bunch of loons have made up. Guess which one you have chosen to believe?

[apathoid]

ehh..nvm

[JihadJane]

I guess you came to these conclusions by thinking for yourself Mr Phixer? Or did you just swallow a whole bunch of stupid lies from a lot of paranoid conspiracy websites?

You see the problem is that very many highly experienced professionals worked long and hard to come up with the evidence based narrative that you call the "Official Story". The CTs are just a whole lot of rubbish that a bunch of loons have made up. Guess which one you have chosen to believe?

Rubbish, the Bush talking heads came up with their narrative on the same day as the attacks.

[funk de fino]

Rubbish, the Bush talking heads came up with their narrative on the same day as the attacks.

Was that almost immediately? I dont think you want to go down that road again.

I guess you can name those Bush talking heads eh? Were you wtching them over here in the UK?

[Par]

Truthers aren't dangerous.Tell that to the families of Richard Poplawski's victim's in Pittsburgh, and James von Brunn's victim's in Washington, JJ.Tell that to your logic teacher.


UD/DD: People.
Tx: x is a Truther.
Dx: x is dangerous.
Lxy: x is y's logic teacher.
r: Richard Poplawski.
v: James von Brunn.
p: Par.
j: JihadJane.


[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)→¬∃x(Tx∧Dx)]
[(Tr∧Dr)∧(Tv∧Dv)]
∴∃x(Tx∧Dx)
∴¬[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)]
∴Lpj

[Whiplash]

Is dangerouse the new realistice?

[NutCracker]

UD/DD: People.
Tx: x is a Truther.
Dx: x is dangerous.
Lxy: x is y's logic teacher.
r: Richard Poplawski.
v: James von Brunn.
p: Par.
j: JihadJane.


[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)→¬∃x(Tx∧Dx)]
[(Tr∧Dr)∧(Tv∧Dv)]
∴∃x(Tx∧Dx)
∴¬[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)]
∴Lpj


Love it! Now if I where JJ I would demand a formal proof of one of those assertions. But since I believe the assertion in question is true I doubt JJ will be able to pinpoint it.

[W.D.Clinger]

Love it! Now if I where JJ I would demand a formal proof of one of those assertions. But since I believe the assertion in question is true I doubt JJ will be able to pinpoint it.

The assertion in question would follow logically if one of JJ's statements in this thread were added as an axiom. So even if JJ were capable of identifying the assertion in question, she could not deny its truth without being illogical.

Those of us who have not agreed with JJ's statement remain uncommitted on the assertion in question.

Well done, Par.

Will

[sylvan8798]

UD/DD: People.
Tx: x is a Truther.
Dx: x is dangerous.
Lxy: x is y's logic teacher.
r: Richard Poplawski.
v: James von Brunn.
p: Par.
j: JihadJane.


[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)→¬∃x(Tx∧Dx)]
[(Tr∧Dr)∧(Tv∧Dv)]
∴∃x(Tx∧Dx)
∴¬[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)]
∴Lpj


Wow. I can't believe I understood that. That's what having kids in high school geometry does for you.

[JihadJane]

UD/DD: People.
Tx: x is a Truther.
Dx: x is dangerous.
Lxy: x is y's logic teacher.
r: Richard Poplawski.
v: James von Brunn.
p: Par.
j: JihadJane.


[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)→¬∃x(Tx∧Dx)]
[(Tr∧Dr)∧(Tv∧Dv)]
∴∃x(Tx∧Dx)
∴¬[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)]
∴Lpj



As I understood it, the OP uses "truthers" as a collective noun.

("Why truthers are dangerouse!")

I was certainly using it as a collective noun in my comment

("Truthers aren't dangerous.")

Your "logic" appears to have overlooked this.

Your equation also begs the question "What is a Truther?"



Humans are dangerous - discuss.

[Par]

...Your "logic" appears to have overlooked this.


You put logic in sneer quotes. If you think something’s logically wrong with it, then be specific about where.

Your equation also begs the question "What is a Truther?"


Begging the question is where the conclusion is presupposed within the premises. I’ve not done that. Again, if you think I have, then be specific about where. Anyway, I think you mean “raises the question”. Again: Lpj.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The 9/11 truth movement is dangerous for the same reasons that Al-Queada is dangerous. They both take in disaffected angry types like Mohammaed Attah, Ziad Jarrah, Richard Poplawski and James Von Brunn. Both groups fill these peoples heads with paranoid fairy tales about how powerful people are secretly plotting to get them, and how the day will come when there will be a reckoning, showdown or some manner of conflict with these dark and secret forces. Both groups them turn these people loose after their brainwashing to follow their pseudo-beliefs to their logical conclusion.

Yes, Jane. Your movement propgrams people like Poplawski and Von Brunn to be killers. All on the basis of claims you know to be lies. After you are done here trying to be cute, you are going to tell someone else like Poplawski or Von Brunn that there is a secret cabal that is out to get them. And when they inevitably explode, you are going to bear a measure of responsibility for lighting their fuses.

[RedIbis]

Your equation also begs the question "What is a Truther?"




That's what I want to know.

[johnny karate]

Rubbish, the Bush talking heads came up with their narrative on the same day as the attacks.

Citation, please.

[Par]

Truthers aren't dangerous."What is a Truther?"
That's what I want to know.


So, without knowing "What is a Truther?", these generalised claims are suspect... except when you make them.

[johnny karate]

That's what I want to know.

As a for instance, a Truther is someone so blinded by ideology and the predetermined belief that 9/11 was an inside job, they ask idiotic questions about why a building not attacked by terrorists wasn't mentioned in a report about a terrorist attack, or they espouse the idiotic notion that three skyscrapers were brought down by explosives in front of thousands of people who happened not to notice.

A Truther could also be someone equally blinded by ideology and predetermined conclusions, but too cowardly to make arguments of their own, so instead resort to merely promoting the above mentioned idiotic arguments of others on Internet forums.

[defaultdotxbe]

i would say as a whole truthers are no more dangerous than people who play first person shooter video games or listen to gangsta rap

[W.D.Clinger]

i would say as a whole truthers are no more dangerous than people who play first person shooter video games or listen to gangsta rap

That sounds sensible, except we have no idea what "truthers" might mean. :boggled:

Will

[funk de fino]

That's what I want to know.

Some have already told you.

[911kongen]

The 9/11 truth movement is dangerous for the same reasons that Al-Queada is dangerous. They both take in disaffected angry types like Mohammaed Attah, Ziad Jarrah, Richard Poplawski and James Von Brunn. Both groups fill these peoples heads with paranoid fairy tales about how powerful people are secretly plotting to get them, and how the day will come when there will be a reckoning, showdown or some manner of conflict with these dark and secret forces. Both groups them turn these people loose after their brainwashing to follow their pseudo-beliefs to their logical conclusion.

Yes, Jane. Your movement propgrams people like Poplawski and Von Brunn to be killers. All on the basis of claims you know to be lies. After you are done here trying to be cute, you are going to tell someone else like Poplawski or Von Brunn that there is a secret cabal that is out to get them. And when they inevitably explode, you are going to bear a measure of responsibility for lighting their fuses.

Thank you for writing this! You said it a lot better then me! :D

[Brainache]

Rubbish, the Bush talking heads came up with their narrative on the same day as the attacks.

The NIST Report was released the same day as the attacks?

[Hokulele]

Rubbish, the Bush talking heads came up with their narrative on the same day as the attacks.

The NIST Report was released the same day as the attacks?


I was going to say, that must be why there were discrepencies between the various reports (FEMA, NIST, etc.). :rolleyes:

[UNLoVedRebel]

I was going to say, that must be why there were discrepencies between the various reports (FEMA, NIST, etc.). :rolleyes:

That must also mean the North Tower impact was an accident because that's what Bush said the day of the attacks.

[JihadJane]

You put logic in sneer quotes. If you think something’s logically wrong with it, then be specific about where.




Begging the question is where the conclusion is presupposed within the premises. I’ve not done that. Again, if you think I have, then be specific about where. Anyway, I think you mean “raises the question”. Again: Lpj.

Sorry, I thought I was being very specific.

If we forget about defining "truther" for the moment, the premise that Sylvan8798's statement, "Tell that to the families of Richard Poplawski's victim's in Pittsburgh, and James von Brunn's victim's in Washington, JJ", supports would be something like "Two Truthers are dangerous", but certainly not the generalization "Truthers are dangerous".


Thank you for writing this! You said it a lot better then me! :DThe 9/11 truth movement is dangerous for the same reasons that Al-Queada is dangerous. They both take in disaffected angry types like Mohammaed Attah, Ziad Jarrah, Richard Poplawski and James Von Brunn. Both groups fill these peoples heads with paranoid fairy tales about how powerful people are secretly plotting to get them, and how the day will come when there will be a reckoning, showdown or some manner of conflict with these dark and secret forces. Both groups them turn these people loose after their brainwashing to follow their pseudo-beliefs to their logical conclusion.

Yes, Jane. Your movement propgrams people like Poplawski and Von Brunn to be killers. All on the basis of claims you know to be lies. After you are done here trying to be cute, you are going to tell someone else like Poplawski or Von Brunn that there is a secret cabal that is out to get them. And when they inevitably explode, you are going to bear a measure of responsibility for lighting their fuses.



Why didn’t you tell us earlier, 911kongen, that you were interested producing rubbish evangelical diatribe?

I wonder what our logical friends would make of Sword’s soup of misguided conjecture and unsubstantiated assertions.


The NIST Report was released the same day as the attacks?

The NIST reports did not change the already established Bush-talking-heads narrative.

[Par]

Tell that to your logic teacher.Your "logic" appears to have overlooked this.You put logic in sneer quotes. If you think something’s logically wrong with it, then be specific about where.If we forget about defining "truther" for the moment, the premise that Sylvan8798's statement: "Tell that to the families of Richard Poplawski's victim's in Pittsburgh, and James von Brunn's victim's in Washington, JJ", supports would be something like "Two Truthers are dangerous", not "Truthers are dangerous".


I think we have our wires crossed. You sneered at my logic. I asked you to be specific about what is wrong with my logic, rather than what is wrong with Sylvan8798's remarks.

[JihadJane]

I think we have our wires crossed. You sneered at my logic. I asked you to be specific about what is wrong with my logic, rather than what is wrong with Sylvan8798's remarks.

There would be nothing wrong with it if it didn't relate to Sylvan8798's remarks or the real world.

[Par]

There would be nothing wrong with it if it didn't relate to Sylvan8798's remarks or the real world.


Erm. Well, that’s not all that precise. In fact, I just don't know what you mean. If I’ve made a logical mistake – which is of course possible – I’d like to know about it. So, can you be specific about what I get wrong?

[Dave Rogers]

The NIST reports did not change the already established Bush-talking-heads narrative.

And yet many in the truth movement make a great deal of the fact that the NIST reports contradicted the FEMA report, which also did not change the established narrative. Could it be that looking for trifling apparent anomalies isn't the best way to falsify a hypothesis?

Dave

[W.D.Clinger]

With apologies to Par for explaining this to JJ...

There would be nothing wrong with it if it didn't relate to Sylvan8798's remarks or the real world.

Your mistake lay in thinking that the negation of "Truthers are dangerous" would be "Truthers aren't dangerous." Had you logic-fu, you'd have said "Not all truthers are dangerous" (or, if you were indeed using "truthers" as a collective noun, something like "Truthers are no more dangerous than truckers").

Your mistake is common in informal conversation. Had you not made a bogus objection to another poster's logic, Par might not have called you on it.

Will

[johnny karate]

Rubbish, the Bush talking heads came up with their narrative on the same day as the attacks.

The NIST reports did not change the already established Bush-talking-heads narrative.

Citation, please.

[jmh423]

......they espouse the idiotic notion that three skyscrapers were brought down by explosives in front of thousands of people who happened not to notice.


This is a ridiculously false statement.......Many people who were on site including several journalists, network newsmen, firemen, and police officers reported that they witnessed evidence of explosives in all three WTC buildings, and many more who were in a position to "notice" were blown to bits. Tiny fragments of their bones were found on rooftops several hundred yards away from the buildings....Why would anyone assert something this absurd? Sadly, this is all too typical of the hordes of government defenders and apologists who infest this website. You and yours are a bad joke....Critical thinkers...LOL

[R.Mackey]

No, they didn't. Practically everything you wrote there is nonsense.

[UNLoVedRebel]

This is a ridiculously false statement.......Many people who were on site including several journalists, network newsmen, firemen, and police officers reported that they witnessed evidence of explosives in all three WTC buildings, and many more who were in a position to "notice" were blown to bits. Notice how your reply has nothing to do with Johnny Karate's statement. Johnny Karate was specific while your claim was a meaningless statement "they witnessed evidence of explosives". I bet they did "witness evidence of explosives." Look at 1:23, "evidence of explosives"

LTXFnAIP6A0&feature=player_profilepage#

[jmh423]

Enter: "Meet Jerome Hauer 911 Suspect Awaiting Indictment"....into any search engine...This guy looks real good for 3000 counts of conspiracy to commit murder..And as far as phony talking heads immediately after the attack, go to youtube and enter...."The 9-11 Solution -How the myth was sold-"
Watch the agents and propaganda mouthpieces recite their prepared script. It is almost funny how contrived these phonies are....911 truthers are dangerous to the perpetrators of this obvious false flag attack.... The Bush's, Cheney, Olmert, Netanyahu, Zakheim, Perle, Feith, The Bin Laden Brothers, and many others...Hopefully soon they will all be held to answer.

[R.Mackey]

... Olmert? Netanyahu? Zakheim? :rolleyes:

I assume you're referring to this (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/270207Hauer.htm). You should look up this neo-Nazi named Magz, I'm sure you two will get along famously.

Alone.

/ignore

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

This is a ridiculously false statement.......Many people who were on site including several journalists, network newsmen, firemen, and police officers reported that they witnessed evidence of explosives in all three WTC buildings, and many more who were in a position to "notice" were blown to bits. Tiny fragments of their bones were found on rooftops several hundred yards away from the buildings....Why would anyone assert something this absurd? Sadly, this is all too typical of the hordes of government defenders and apologists who infest this website. You and yours are a bad joke....Critical thinkers...LOL

They didn't witness seeing "explosions" they heard what were explosions.

Hearing and seeing it is different subjects.

I could say that a car that backfires sounded like a gun shot. But was it really a gun shot that I heard or just a car backfiring?

If I claim that it was a gun shot and not a car, then what type of evidence do I have to prove that the people in the car held a gun and fired off a round?

I wouldn't have any type of evidence if the people in the car had no gun. Therefore it wouldn't be a gun shot that I heard. But a car that backfired.

You Truthers get so mixed up, it's just unbelievable.

"But they heard explosions so it must be explosives."

FAT CHANCE!

[jmh423]

If you watch the Alex Jones 7-25-01 broadcast (On Youtube), you will see that he talks of WTC, Bin Laden, terror attack staged by traitors in the US government and blamed on Bin Laden over a month before the attack...He was just drawing the same conclusion that any reasonable person would after reading the PNAC docs, Israeli thinktank documents (Securing The Realm For Israel) written by soon to be traitors who oozed into the Bush Whitehouse and pentagon after the fraudulant 2000 election (Perle, Feith et al) and other US government docs regarding martial law, expanding executive power etc..The neoCONS needed this false flag attack to get their long sought phony "war on terror"....Also Cheney who probably couldn't fly a kite took the unprecidented step of taking control of some integral USAF ops in June of 01. Jones proved to be right on target!

Now bring on the ratpack swarm technique that the old JREF critical thinkers site is so famous for....LOL

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

If you watch the Alex Jones 7-25-01 broadcast (On Youtube), you will see that he talks of WTC, Bin Laden, terror attack staged by traitors in the US government and blamed on Bin Laden over a month before the attack...He was just drawing the same conclusion that any reasonable person would after reading the PNAC docs, Israeli thinktank documents (Securing The Realm For Israel) written by soon to be traitors who oozed into the Bush Whitehouse and pentagon after the fraudulant 2000 election (Perle, Feith et al) and other US government docs regarding martial law, expanding executive power etc..The neoCONS needed this false flag attack to get their long sought phony "war on terror"....Also Cheney who probably couldn't fly a kite took the unprecidented step of taking control of some integral USAF ops in June of 01. Jones proved to be right on target!

Now bring on the ratpack swarm technique that the old JREF critical thinkers site is so famous for....LOL


Traitors? I think you need to go look in the mirror and say that.

NeoCons and false flag? Whoa! Got sources and evidence there pal?

"Now bring on the ratpack swarm technique that the old JREF critical thinkers site is so famous for"

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Charlie! Slow down before you hurt yourself! You're going a mile a minute!

Yeah, yeah, yeah! When are you going to get to the point?

[jmh423]

... Olmert? Netanyahu? Zakheim? :rolleyes:

I assume you're referring to this (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/270207Hauer.htm). You should look up this neo-Nazi named Magz, I'm sure you two will get along famously.

Alone.

/ignore

I notice that you were very offended that I accused Olmert, Netanyahu and Zakheim...(All Jews)...I also included the Bush's (Protestants) and their buddies the Bin Ladens (Sunni Muslims)...and Cheney (a satanic atheist ghoul)..Why on earth would you bring in the old anti-semite crap? Are you suggesting that Jews are above criminal behavior and that asserting otherwise makes me a nazi? What a tool!! There are very bad people of all races and religious backgrounds champ. Ever heard of Abe Reles/Kid Twist...Look him up. LOL

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

If you watch the Alex Jones 7-25-01 broadcast (On Youtube), you will see that he talks of WTC, Bin Laden, terror attack staged by traitors in the US government and blamed on Bin Laden over a month before the attack.

I know for sure that Alex Jones had the date changed on his camcorder. Anyone can change a date on a camcorder to any date they want. Alex Jones did just that! Anyone believeing him is just stupid to play along with him.

[jmh423]

I know for sure that Alex Jones had the date changed on his camcorder. Anyone can change a date on a camcorder to any date they want. Alex Jones did just that! Anyone believeing him is just stupid to play along with him.

That is priceless!! You are asserting that the July 25th broadcast never happened...I see..All of his shows are archived sport. But this is really bold even for JREFers...Thanks for the comic relief champy...You are a real hoot!!

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

That is priceless!! You are asserting that the July 25th broadcast never happened...I see..All of his shows are archived sport. But this is really bold even for JREFers...Thanks for the comic relief champy...You are a real hoot!!

Oh it happened alright, AFTER 9/11 happened.

I wouldn't doubt that they're archived, but the first 1 he made is suspious and dubious.

Bold for JREFers? Not Really! Just common sense on how camcorders work.

You know what common sense is, right? Or don't you know?

I might be a hoot, but still you're wrong.

[Sam.I.Am]

This is a ridiculously false statement.......Many people who were on site including several journalists, network newsmen, firemen, and police officers reported that they witnessed evidence of explosives in all three WTC buildings, and many more who were in a position to "notice" were blown to bits. Tiny fragments of their bones were found on rooftops several hundred yards away from the buildings....Why would anyone assert something this absurd? Sadly, this is all too typical of the hordes of government defenders and apologists who infest this website. You and yours are a bad joke....Critical thinkers...LOL

Produce those peoples statements then. Do not include similes or metaphors. Place them in context as to when they heard the "Explosives" in relationship to the seconds before the collapses. Nobody here is saying that things didn't explode because we all realize that there are many common items found in almost all office buildings that don't react well to a common class A fire much less a combined class A and B fire.

As far as the tiny bone fragments go it's not too hard to picture how a human body in the huge people blender/wood chipper (I apologize for using so blunt of a comparison to everyone else reading this but that's the closest analogy I can come up with) that was the collapse of the towers could then carry small bone fragments inside the dust clouds onto the tops of the closest surrounding buildings that are less than half the height of the towers themselves. Your incredibility to understand this is not evidence of anything other than your inability to understand the magnitude of the amount of energy released in the 15-20+ seconds of the collapses.

The lack of critical thinking is yours for stopping at your predetermined conclusions and not exploring further to see if there are any holes in your conclusions. True critical thinkers look through many lenses and angles with as blind an eye as they can muster to find a logical fault with their conclusions and then modify as needed.

I knew that the entire controlled demolition argument was impossible because there is no conventional explosive chain (burster/booster/warhead) that could withstand having an airliner crash into it without it being heavily armored and that the armoring alone would be clearly obvious to even the most casual observer. This applies to any sort of incindiary as well as any sort of explosive. The initiation device is always susceptible to premature detonation from both shock and heat and it has to be in contact with whatever it was meant to ignite.

I can understand "Just asking questions", I have friends to this day that are still clueless on the subject other than the buildings collapsed because an airliner hit them, but I don't tolerate those online that don't accept reasonable explanations (I keep smart company though so so far I haven't I haven't had to :talk034: slap them with reality).

[jmh423]

Oh it happened alright, AFTER 9/11 happened.

I wouldn't doubt that they're archived, but the first 1 he made is suspious and dubious.

Bold for JREFers? Not Really! Just common sense on how camcorders work.

You know what common sense is, right? Or don't you know?

I might be a hoot, but still you're wrong.


One problem with your idiotic, yet funny assertion is that Jones has millions of listeners many of whom heard the original broadcast on July 25th 2001. I was among them. The fact that this broadcast was made on 7-25-01 isn't in dispute, except in the mind of a crackpot liar like you. You said that you know for a FACT that Jones changed the date on his camcorder. Do you have anything to back up that assertion? Or are you just pulling this out of your .....? Well wait...you know how camcorders work, so it must be true...LOL....Keep digging sport..

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

One problem with your idiotic, yet funny assertion is that Jones has millions of listeners many of whom heard the original broadcast on July 25th 2001. I was among them. The fact that this broadcast was made on 7-25-01 isn't in dispute, except in the mind of a crackpot liar like you. You said that you know for a FACT that Jones changed the date on his camcorder. Do you have anything to back up that assertion? Or are you just pulling this out of your .....? Well wait...you know how camcorders work, so it must be true...LOL....Keep digging sport..

You mean "millions" of brainwashed fools, very much like yourself, tune into his radio shows to listen to his fairy stories about 9/11?

Yes, it is in dispute. Has been since he made it in 2001.

Crackpot liar? If I was "lying" then please tell me which parts did I lie about?

I know for a fact because I OWN a camcorder and know HOW TO program the date into it. I just told you, I OWN a camcorder, it's no "assertion".

You're digging yourself a hole!

[Sam.I.Am]

Jones makes all kinds of claims on a regular basis. So does Rush and Hannity and my local favorite, Ray Taliaferro (the exact opposite of the right wing but with the same type fire in his belly). Sometimes they come true. That doesn't make them clairvoyant, that makes them spammers who throw enough :talk034: against the wall that something is eventually going to stick. They then turn around and say "I told you so" while conveniently ignoring the claims that they made that were proven wrong.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

JMH243,

In fact and truth I own a Handheld JVC Compact VHS Videomovie GR-AX2 camcorder and it has a button to change the date and time.

Alex Jones did the same thing on his and just lied about the actual date he programmed into his camcorder.

JMH243 falls apart in

3

2

1

[jmh423]

I know for sure that Alex Jones had the date changed on his camcorder.

How do you "know for sure" that Alex Jones had the date changed on his camcorder?

[Sam.I.Am]

Tobaccospitter

Now that is the professional debunkers answer to the 7-25-01 Jones broadcast...He just got lucky and said that there would soon be a false flag terror attack in the US that would be blamed on CIA asset and long time Bush friend Osama Bin Laden..If you say enough stuff you're bound to get one right. Eh Sam? You need to read the professional debunkers handbook that is right on the JREF site...Help him Sam, he's making a fool of himself...

Sam, you are right it doesn't make him clairvoyant...Jones just saw this one coming as the natural progression of those who oozed into power, and their phalynx of neoCON dual citizen traitors they brought in with them.

Monday Morning Quarterbacking is fun isn't it? Bin Laden and Al Queda were just a small splinter group of the massive Muslim uprising against the west... Oh no, wait... They were the premier Muslim Fundamentalist group that had already attacked US embassies and a warship and had never said that they would stop.

I'm going to make a prediction and say that at least five Code Pink members will be arrested for disorderly conduct in the next six months.

And maybe you can respond to my post before the one you bothered to respond to?

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

JMH423 defends Alex Jones just like the Chewbacca Defense that was played out in the O.J. Simpson Murder Trial.

Alex Jones & JMH423 doesn't make sense. Unless what they believe is called the Chewbacca Defense.

[JihadJane]

And yet many in the truth movement make a great deal of the fact that the NIST reports contradicted the FEMA report, which also did not change the established narrative. Could it be that looking for trifling apparent anomalies isn't the best way to falsify a hypothesis?

Dave

Hello cheeky,

It's got nothing to do with me what the truth movement makes a great deal of.

The details of how the towers disintegrated has no impact on the hastily established 911 narrative, the one later used so deceptively and powerfully to launch, justify and sustain our first, murderous, Twenty First Century Resource Wars.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

With apologies to Par for explaining this to JJ...



Your mistake lay in thinking that the negation of "Truthers are dangerous" would be "Truthers aren't dangerous." Had you logic-fu, you'd have said "Not all truthers are dangerous" (or, if you were indeed using "truthers" as a collective noun, something like "Truthers are no more dangerous than truckers").

Your mistake is common in informal conversation. Had you not made a bogus objection to another poster's logic, Par might not have called you on it.

Will


I assumed readers would be able to work all that out for themselves without my having to spell it out for them, but thanks for clarifying it.

The "mistake", as far as I can see it, is sylvan8798's, not mine, and one frequently made by the sensationalist, gossip column/tabloid wing of the Anti-Twoofie Party. Calling it a "mistake", of course, is being charitable in the latter case.

My "Truthers aren't dangerous " comment was supposed to highlight this inaccuracy. It was obviously too cryptic! I added my quip "Humans are dangerous - discuss" in the hope that it would make it obvious what I was saying...

The comment "Truthers aren't dangerous " was a direct response to 911kongen’s appeal for corrections:


Thank you! That was a good advice! ;) Please tell me if I have something else wrong. I need it! So it will be fixed in the film..

and deliberately mirrored the OP title,"Why truthers are dangerouse!", for humorous/rhetorical effect! Ho ho!


Sylvan8798 responded:


Tell that to the families of Richard Poplawski's victim's in Pittsburgh, and James von Brunn's victim's in Washington, JJ.

It seemed transparently illogical of sylvan8798 to claim that the actions of two people (supposedly “Truthers” (whatever that is)) could be used to draw conclusions about "Truthers" in general.


Tell that to your logic teacher.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Erm. Well, that’s not all that precise. In fact, I just don't know what you mean. If I’ve made a logical mistake – which is of course possible – I’d like to know about it. So, can you be specific about what I get wrong?


I don't know how to make it more precise. There's nothing wrong with your logic in itself but it fails to recognize the collective nature of the noun "Truthers" ("Tx: x is a Truther") and therefore your very logical logic doesn’t apply to my statement or, as I understood it, to the OP’s. Perhaps "irrelevant" would be more accurate than "illogical".



UD/DD: People.
Tx: x is a Truther.
Dx: x is dangerous.
Lxy: x is y's logic teacher.
r: Richard Poplawski.
v: James von Brunn.
p: Par.
j: JihadJane.
1. [?x(Tx?¬Dx)?¬?x(Tx?Dx)]
2. [(Tr?Dr)?(Tv?Dv)]
3. ??x(Tx?Dx)
4. ?¬[?x(Tx?¬Dx)]
5. ?Lpj

[NutCracker]

This is a ridiculously false statement.......Many people who were on site including several journalists, network newsmen, firemen, and police officers reported that they witnessed evidence of explosives in all three WTC buildings, and many more who were in a position to "notice" were blown to bits. Tiny fragments of their bones were found on rooftops several hundred yards away from the buildings....Why would anyone assert something this absurd? Sadly, this is all too typical of the hordes of government defenders and apologists who infest this website. You and yours are a bad joke....Critical thinkers...LOL


Loooong debunked nonsense. I've become too uninterested in countering this Thruther nonesense to point out where your " logic" goes of the rails. Afyter having done so for about 781364018636817392043762549 times it becomes a kind of boring. So, ya know what? Apply your critical thinking skills (*) to your own thesis.

*) Skills that will be inadequate for the task, I'm afraid, as they amount to distrusting anything you believe the "government wants you to believe" and swallow anything likeminded spout hook, line and sinker.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/james_von_brunn_a_profile.php

In 1981 Von Brunn attempted to place the treasonous Federal Reserve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent, citizens arrest. He was tried in a Washington, D.C. Superior Court; convicted by a Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys, and sentenced to prison for eleven years by a Jew judge. A Jew/Negro/White Court of Appeals denied his appeal.

From: "James W. von Brunn" Subject: FW: Henrik Holappa arrested Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:15:08 -0400
Millions of low IQ non-whites are encouraged to illegally invade the USA . They are provided sanctuary, jobs, health-care schooling, by those intent upon destroying Western Civilization. Whereas, the subject of this email, Henrik Holappa, the Finn, who has committed no illegal acts, is arrested and incarcerated illegally by American agents in Marxist employ.

The Henrik Holappa atrocity is a metaphor for the ILLUMINATI conquest of America: The ILLUMINATI, has captured America illegally, and is incarcerating her NOW into a Global Zionist state.

Well informed patriots are ignoring the URGENCY, the extreme DANGER confronting them. There is sparse time remaining. You must ACT NOW. KILL THE ENEMY OR DIE IN THE GULAG !

If that isn't violence then what is?

Twoofers please answer!

[Foolmewunz]

Enter: "Meet Jerome Hauer 911 Suspect Awaiting Indictment"....into any search engine...This guy looks real good for 3000 counts of conspiracy to commit murder..And as far as phony talking heads immediately after the attack, go to youtube and enter...."The 9-11 Solution -How the myth was sold-"
Watch the agents and propaganda mouthpieces recite their prepared script. It is almost funny how contrived these phonies are....911 truthers are dangerous to the perpetrators of this obvious false flag attack.... The Bush's, Cheney, Olmert, Netanyahu, Zakheim, Perle, Feith, The Bin Laden Brothers, and many others...Hopefully soon they will all be held to answer.

Bump. Such a nice post.

It's just so lovely, twisting and turning in all delusional directions in just a couple of short paragraphs. I wanted to see it get the love it deserves.

[Nosi]

I would help you but you called Unsecured Coins a truther. :(

Having seen a couple of Unsecured Coin's films, that is coffee spitting funny!

[AJM8125]

If you watch the Alex Jones 7-25-01 broadcast (On Youtube)<truther blather snipped>

If Alex Jones reported for any major media outlet you'd be screaming bloody murder about him having foreknowledge.

[jmh423]

His Idol is craptastically obvious in how he wants to make money. Buy my DVDs, and subscribe to my radio show, and my newsletter...

I love it when people like Sam accuse those who are exposing the truth about governmental fraud and deception of being in it for the "big truther money"...What a ridiculous assertion...Alex Jones could have easily been slotted into a multi million dollar radio and or TV career if he agreed to keep to the script. The present pack of bombastic government shills: Limbaugh,(who at least has some talent) and utter morons like Beck, O'Reilly et al, make 10s of millions a year with less talent and intelligence than Jones. By taking the positions that Mr Jones has taken, he has cost himself millions. If you added up every cent Jones has made selling CDs it wouldn't be what that no talent sissy buffoon Glenn Beck makes in a month...Get a grip champ!


Anyone who believes that the Wolf Blitzer's and Brit Humes, (let alone the Becks, Hannities, Olbermans, Matthews of the world) are more credible than Alex Jones is either stupid or brainwashed. Jones, Rense, Von Kleist, Bill Cooper, and the rest of the so called "Truth Movement" are the real American Patriots. The others I mentioned are nothing more than high paid shills for the scum of the earth.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Alex Jones said this, he said that, blah blah blah blah, he's "smart", blah blah blah he never "lies" blah blah blah!

NOONE GIVES A (Insert Imagination)!

Jones is nothing more than what Adolf Hitler used to be during WWII. Hitler used the radio for propaganda and Jones is following in his footsteps.

I wouldn't doubt that Alex Jones is the reincarnated Adolf Hitler. After all Jones does chant "9/11 was and Inside Job", kind of like when Hitler chanted "Sieg Hiel".

So go ahead Truthers, worship the reincarnated Adolf Hitler. You've earned it!

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

How many innocents have you saved from prison, 9/11ChewbaccaDefense, and what are their names?

I don't know JJ, you tell me about how you're going to save KSM from certain death first. Then I might tell ya!

Waiting....

Waiting....

Waiting....

[garethdjb]

I love it when people like Sam accuse those who are exposing the truth about governmental fraud and deception of being in it for the "big truther money"...What a ridiculous assertion...Alex Jones could have easily been slotted into a multi million dollar radio and or TV career if he agreed to keep to the script. The present pack of bombastic government shills: Limbaugh,(who at least has some talent) and utter morons like Beck, O'Reilly et al, make 10s of millions a year with less talent and intelligence than Jones. By taking the positions that Mr Jones has taken, he has cost himself millions. If you added up every cent Jones has made selling CDs it wouldn't be what that no talent sissy buffoon Glenn Beck makes in a month...Get a grip champ!


There are people with less intelligence and talent than Alex Jones????

[JihadJane]

There are people with less intelligence and talent than Alex Jones????

Yes.

[JihadJane]

I don't know JJ, you tell me about how you're going to save KSM from certain death first. Then I might tell ya!

Waiting....

Waiting....

Waiting....



Why do you think I'm going to save KSM from certain death?

There's no need to be shy about your good works with prisoners. Please share.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Why do you think I'm going to save KSM from certain death?

There's no need to be shy about your good works with prisoners. Please share.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=134695

First you explain how you're going to save KSM from that thread. Then, and only then will I reply to you JJ.

[JihadJane]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=134695

First you explain how you're going to save KSM from that thread. Then, and only then will I reply to you JJ.

I have no plans to save KSM from that thread (on which I've posted extensively already) or from anything else.

I'm all ears.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I have no plans to save KSM from that thread (on which I've posted extensively already) or from anything else.

I'm all ears.

Stop ignoring the question that was posted in the thread I mentioned.

You have evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, right? That must mean that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind, has been set up. Are you going do anything about this horrible miscarriage of justice besides whine on the Internet? Surely, you cannot in good conscience sit idly by while this man is tried and perhaps executed for crimes that Dick Cheney was actually responsible for, right?

Here is what you can do: Send your evidence to his lawyers. You might be this poor victim's only chance of being spared the needle. If you are not smart enough to figure out who his lawyers are and how to contact them, please let me know.

Everyone's waiting for you answer. So stop ignoring it JJ.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Where's your evidence that 9/11's an "Inside Job" JJ?

[JihadJane]

Where's your evidence that 9/11's an "Inside Job" JJ?

I haven't got any.

Did you tell a porky about your prison activism, 9/11ChewbaccaDefense?

[ZemantiX]

Disturbing video! The irony AJ the irony..

Not an advice but rather an idea, theres a clip with AJ crying and babling about the beast etc. maybe for a future video.

..Actually, a danish "truther" just recently founded a FaceBook group nominating Alex Jones for The Nobel Peace Prize 2010. No joke.

[Nosi]

You were watching Glenn Beck the other night, weren't you?


What is it with him and the visual aids. Does he think people are idiots?



We use emoticons...

:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp

[Par]

There's nothing wrong with your logic in itself...


Well, I'm glad we finally got there. So thanks for that.

There's nothing wrong with your logic in itself but it fails to recognize the collective nature of the noun "Truthers" ("Tx: x is a Truther") and therefore your very logical logic doesn’t apply to my statement or, as I understood it, to the OP’s. Perhaps "irrelevant" would be more accurate than "illogical".


I think I’m starting to see the problem. You're labouring under the misconception that the predicate “Tx: x is a Truther” means I can’t be referring to more than one. But of course I can (and do). That’s what the quantifiers are for. Perhaps this confusion stems from the fact you simply don’t understand formal logic. If not, no worries. Just say so.

[TruthersLie]

There are people with less intelligence and talent than Alex Jones????

yes there are... most of them listen to him/watch him on youtube and think that he is telling the truth...

[Tricky]

A number of posts have been sent to AAH for bickering, off topic and just general incivility. I might should have moved a few more. Maybe I should just shut down the thread, but let's see if you can tone it down first. Stop the bickering, name-calling, off-topic, and anything else uncivil if you want to keep discussing this.

[triforcharity]

The NIST reports did not change the already established Bush-talking-heads narrative.

Not at all??? Hummmm.......seems like it did. Didn't they say thata the collapse waas the main reason for 7's collapse?? How about the Diesel fuel thing?? Humm......Seems that they all pretty much changed.

[johnny karate]

Rubbish, the Bush talking heads came up with their narrative on the same day as the attacks.

The NIST reports did not change the already established Bush-talking-heads narrative.

The details of how the towers disintegrated has no impact on the hastily established 911 narrative, the one later used so deceptively and powerfully to launch, justify and sustain our first, murderous, Twenty First Century Resource Wars.

JihadJane, you've three times mentioned this so-called "Bush-talking-heads narrative" released to the public on the day of the attacks, and have continually ignore requests to substantiate such a narrative exists.

Please provide a source for this claim, or at the very least have the decency to stop repeating such stupid, silly lies.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I haven't got any.

Did you tell a porky about your prison activism, 9/11ChewbaccaDefense?

If you haven't got any then why are you here JJ?

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

A number of posts have been sent to AAH for bickering, off topic and just general incivility. I might should have moved a few more. Maybe I should just shut down the thread, but let's see if you can tone it down first. Stop the bickering, name-calling, off-topic, and anything else uncivil if you want to keep discussing this.

Sorry Tricky!

What does anyone expect from a Wookie? Except a big walking carpet that gets annoyed very easily. LOL!

[Sam.I.Am]

I love it when people like Sam accuse those who are exposing the truth about governmental fraud and deception of being in it for the "big truther money"...What a ridiculous assertion...Alex Jones could have easily been slotted into a multi million dollar radio and or TV career if he agreed to keep to the script. The present pack of bombastic government shills: Limbaugh,(who at least has some talent) and utter morons like Beck, O'Reilly et al, make 10s of millions a year with less talent and intelligence than Jones. By taking the positions that Mr Jones has taken, he has cost himself millions. If you added up every cent Jones has made selling CDs it wouldn't be what that no talent sissy buffoon Glenn Beck makes in a month...Get a grip champ!


Anyone who believes that the Wolf Blitzer's and Brit Humes, (let alone the Becks, Hannities, Olbermans, Matthews of the world) are more credible than Alex Jones is either stupid or brainwashed. Jones, Rense, Von Kleist, Bill Cooper, and the rest of the so called "Truth Movement" are the real American Patriots. The others I mentioned are nothing more than high paid shills for the scum of the earth.

Look at what Jones had in his studio 9 years ago and compare it to what he has now. Then explain to me how he managed to upgrade to all of those big HD flat screens and everything else you see in the background without making money hand over fist. Are you suggesting that he lives in poverty while sinking every extra cent into his studio? Your "Heroes" are fleecing you and you gladly let them.

[jmh423]

Look at what Jones had in his studio 9 years ago and compare it to what he has now. Then explain to me how he managed to upgrade to all of those big HD flat screens and everything else you see in the background without making money hand over fist. Are you suggesting that he lives in poverty while sinking every extra cent into his studio? Your "Heroes" are fleecing you and you gladly let them.

Sam

Again you are harping about the fact that Jones has made a couple million bucks which he has obviously reinvested in his operation. Big HD flatscreens etc....LOL!!........

You ignore the fact that the perpetrators of the false flag attacks on 911 have stolen & embezzled trillions over the last 9 years. (While also murdering over a million innocent civillians and counting) The Afghanistan and Iraq debaucles have been a huge boondoggle for the neoCON scum who as much as announced that they needed this "Pearl Harbor Event" to enact their plan in a timely fashion.

Old man Bush was sitting in a boardroom cutting a deal for profit sharing with the Bin Laden brothers the day of the attacks. The phony "war on terror" that 911 triggered has made 100s of billions for Cheney, the Bush's, the Bin Ladens and the rest of the neoCON scums that engineered this mass murder. There is ample evidence that the 911 attacks were done with plenty of operational support from Mossad, ISI (Paki intel) Saudi Intel, CIA, and of course all of the traitorous Israeli spies who infested our high governmental and military institutions (Perle, Feith, Libby, Zakheim, Chertoff, Wolfowitz et al) along with the fraudulant election of GW (chucklenuts) Bush in 2000. The notion that a rogue pack of Arab fundementalists pulled this off is a ridiculous farce.

[AJM8125]

And amazingly not a shred of evidence.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Bump

http://www.movie-moron.com/wp-content/gallery/star-wars/SW-You-Fail.jpg

[jmh423]

For a real journalists view of what really happened on 911....

http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

Or you can keep referring to the JREF-Popular Mechanics Professional Debunking kit contained right here on this site FREE of charge..A giant supermarket of plauseable deniability......And keep parroting the same stale crap that Wolf Blitzer, Sean Hannity, and the rest of the ministry of propaganda have been spewing for 9 years +....Be afraid of those swarthy bearded evil ARABS!!! Be very afraid..Give up your personal freedom to fight ARAB terrorists.....LOL

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

BUMP!

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/10/17/633598544181957184-epicfail.jpg

[jmh423]

And amazingly not a shred of evidence.

The evidence is in their own documents and actions.....Read the documents....A Clean Break-A New Strategy For Securing The Realm....And The PNAC documents....Why are there so many Israeli traitors involved in the US government at high levels? Perle, who was a major author of both of the above mentioned docs has been suspected of spying for the Israelis for decades...Why would a scum like this be able to get ANY type of security clearence...Solicitor General Ted Olson was lead defense council for Jonathan Pollard...Who let these TRAITORS ooze into the highest levels of US government...It is time to clean house...Lock em all up and then deport them!!

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Who let these TRAITORS .....Lock em all up and then deport them!!

Jmh423,

Don't you have anything of relevance about 9/11 with evidence to show for or are you going to blab away and have nothing to offer, except some interesting URLs that aren't worth looking at?

[jmh423]

I see that what the "Chewbacca Defense" consists of is posting huge silly meaningless pictures and wasting space...Excellent work champy!! Keep it up.

[jmh423]

Jmh423,

Don't you have anything of relevance about 9/11 with evidence to show for or are you going to blab away and have nothing to offer, except some interesting URLs that aren't worth looking at?

Read "Solving 911-The Book"....It has lots of pictures and facts that are actually relavent to the subject at hand...You might just learn something champ!!

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

posting and wasting space...

Kind of like your silly little Alex Jones posts' right Jmh423?

None of your posts' have any evidence so I don't even know why you're here.

Post the evidence or leave.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Read "Solving 911-The Book"....It has lots of pictures and facts that are actually relavent to the subject at hand...You might just learn something champ!!

Yeah right Jmh423.

It's full of holes to sink a ship! If that's what you call "evidence" then you must be desperate.

[jmh423]

"The Urban Moving Systems company was later exposed as a Mossad "front" company, a fake agency set up to facilitate their terror operation. An American who worked with the company said he was shocked to see that the Israeli employees had openly rejoiced over the attacks. In November 2001, the five Israeli agents and terror suspects were returned to Israel on "visa violations" although they first repeatedly refused to take, and then failed lie detector tests concerning their involvement in 9-11."

[jmh423]

"The question whether Israeli strategic planners would conduct a false-flag terror attack against the United States, their most powerful ally, in order to fix the blame on the Arabs, their enemies, raises several specific questions:




1)Has the Israeli military conducted false-flag terror attacks against the United States in the past?



2)If so, are there links between the people or agencies involved in the previous terror attacks and 9-11?



3)Is there a strategic goal for which Zionist planners would conduct such an extremely dangerous and sophisticated terrorist operation?



4)If so, has that strategic goal been realized as a result of 9-11?



The answer to all four questions is YES. The Israeli military has a documented history of conducting military and false-flag terror attacks against the United States. It also has a history of withholding information from the United States about threats of which it is aware."

[AJM8125]

The evidence is in their own documents and actions.....Read the documents....A Clean Break-A New Strategy For Securing The Realm....And The PNAC documents....Why are there so many Israeli traitors involved in the US government at high levels? Perle, who was a major author of both of the above mentioned docs has been suspected of spying for the Israelis for decades...Why would a scum like this be able to get ANY type of security clearence...Solicitor General Ted Olson was lead defense council for Jonathan Pollard...Who let these TRAITORS ooze into the highest levels of US government...It is time to clean house...Lock em all up and then deport them!!

Once again, evidence free. Maybe you should provide some before I put your nazi idiocy on ignore.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

"The Urban Moving Systems company was later exposed as a Mossad "front" company, a fake agency set up to facilitate their terror operation. An American who worked with the company said he was shocked to see that the Israeli employees had openly rejoiced over the attacks. In November 2001, the five Israeli agents and terror suspects were returned to Israel on "visa violations" although they first repeatedly refused to take, and then failed lie detector tests concerning their involvement in 9-11."

Lie detectors don't work that well.

So what's the next excuse?

[Brainache]

For a real journalists view of what really happened on 911....

http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

Or you can keep referring to the JREF-Popular Mechanics Professional Debunking kit contained right here on this site FREE of charge..A giant supermarket of plauseable deniability......And keep parroting the same stale crap that Wolf Blitzer, Sean Hannity, and the rest of the ministry of propaganda have been spewing for 9 years +....Be afraid of those swarthy bearded evil ARABS!!! Be very afraid..Give up your personal freedom to fight ARAB terrorists.....LOL

A real Journalist?

Who is it? Woodward? Bernstein? Pilger? Cockburn? Monbiot? No, it's Bollyn...
Excuse me while I marvel at your definition of "real".:hypnodisk

Sam

Again you are harping about the fact that Jones has made a couple million bucks which he has obviously reinvested in his operation. Big HD flatscreens etc....LOL!!........

You ignore the fact that the perpetrators of the false flag attacks on 911 have stolen & embezzled trillions over the last 9 years. (While also murdering over a million innocent civillians and counting) The Afghanistan and Iraq debaucles have been a huge boondoggle for the neoCON scum who as much as announced that they needed this "Pearl Harbor Event" to enact their plan in a timely fashion.

Old man Bush was sitting in a boardroom cutting a deal for profit sharing with the Bin Laden brothers the day of the attacks. The phony "war on terror" that 911 triggered has made 100s of billions for Cheney, the Bush's, the Bin Ladens and the rest of the neoCON scums that engineered this mass murder. There is ample evidence that the 911 attacks were done with plenty of operational support from Mossad, ISI (Paki intel) Saudi Intel, CIA, and of course all of the traitorous Israeli spies who infested our high governmental and military institutions (Perle, Feith, Libby, Zakheim, Chertoff, Wolfowitz et al) along with the fraudulant election of GW (chucklenuts) Bush in 2000. The notion that a rogue pack of Arab fundementalists pulled this off is a ridiculous farce.

So are you saying that those stupid Arabs couldn't have hijacked those planes all by themselves and crashed them into buildings? They needed all those clever white guys and cunning Jews to show them how? 'Cause it's not like any Arabs have ever hijacked planes before....

The evidence is in their own documents and actions.....Read the documents....A Clean Break-A New Strategy For Securing The Realm....And The PNAC documents....Why are there so many Israeli traitors involved in the US government at high levels? Perle, who was a major author of both of the above mentioned docs has been suspected of spying for the Israelis for decades...Why would a scum like this be able to get ANY type of security clearence...Solicitor General Ted Olson was lead defense council for Jonathan Pollard...Who let these TRAITORS ooze into the highest levels of US government...It is time to clean house...Lock em all up and then deport them!!

Or better yet, why not just make them wear yellow stars and maybe concentrate them all together in one place so that their evil influence won't be able to spread while you and your buddies work out some kind of final solution to the problem... That would work wouldn't it JMH? Surely if we just get rid of these trouble-makers America will be great once again! Probably stay great for at least a thousand years I reckon....



(yes folks, that was sarcasm)

[Sam.I.Am]

I haven't seen a good old jew hatin' Alex Jones listinin' nazi sympathizer in awhile. It was kind of refreshing really. Now I gotta get out the Fabreeze...

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

www.realjewnews.com/?p=387

Jmh423 should go there & read about his "Idol", his "God", Alex Jones.

He might not what he likes, & that's the point.

[TruthersLie]

For a real journalists view of what really happened on 911....

http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

Or you can keep referring to the JREF-Popular Mechanics Professional Debunking kit contained right here on this site FREE of charge..A giant supermarket of plauseable deniability......And keep parroting the same stale crap that Wolf Blitzer, Sean Hannity, and the rest of the ministry of propaganda have been spewing for 9 years +....Be afraid of those swarthy bearded evil ARABS!!! Be very afraid..Give up your personal freedom to fight ARAB terrorists.....LOL

OH poor twoof.

I love this cannard.

If it helps, I work and live in an arab country. And guess what, the ARABS know who did 9/11 (UBL) and they are AFRAID of other ARAB terrorists.

Your racism is showing twoof.

[TruthersLie]

The evidence is in their own documents and actions.....


Then you should be able to source any of your claims.


Read the documents....


I have... EVERY SINGLE claim made by twoofs... and they always come back to a twoof who needs remedial english classes for their poor reading comprehension.


A Clean Break-A New Strategy For Securing The Realm....And The PNAC documents....


why don't you tell me what they are about... I've read them. Feel free, show us your fantastic reading comprehension skills.


Why are there so many Israeli traitors involved in the US government at high levels? Perle, who was a major author of both of the above mentioned docs has been suspected of spying for the Israelis for decades...Why would a scum like this be able to get ANY type of security clearence...Solicitor General Ted Olson was lead defense council for Jonathan Pollard...Who let these TRAITORS ooze into the highest levels of US government...It is time to clean house...Lock em all up and then deport them!!
Ah... nice to see the antisemitism.... da jooooooz did it. It would help if you had any facts, or even a coherent idea of what happened.

p.s. the joooooz know exactly who you are and where... they will be by with bagels and some cheese soon.

[TruthersLie]

"The Urban Moving Systems company was later exposed as a Mossad "front" company, a fake agency set up to facilitate their terror operation. An American who worked with the company said he was shocked to see that the Israeli employees had openly rejoiced over the attacks. In November 2001, the five Israeli agents and terror suspects were returned to Israel on "visa violations" although they first repeatedly refused to take, and then failed lie detector tests concerning their involvement in 9-11."

Show it please. Citations and sources.

Ah yes.. the dancing israeli LIE... tsk tsk tsk. YOu really should look up those claims.

[JihadJane]

If you haven't got any then why are you here JJ?

I'm a skeptic.

JREF provides an opportunity to study the psychology of people like yourself and anti-twoofie obsessives in general, with the added advantage that some of their most unsavory traits are censored (see ScrewLooseChange blog comments to observe anti-twoofies in the raw).

Why are you here? What psychological purpose does it serve for you? You have mentioned entertainment. Is there anything else?

Originally Posted by 9/11ChewbaccaDefense > Unlike you, I don't let people go to prison (KSM) and basically let them rot in prison if they're innocent.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5216641#post5216641


How many miscarriages of justice have you helped overturn, 9/11ChewbaccaDefense?


Not at all??? Hummmm.......seems like it did. Didn't they say thata the collapse waas the main reason for 7's collapse?? How about the Diesel fuel thing?? Humm......Seems that they all pretty much changed.


These details of how WTC7 collapsed are irrelevant to the fear-mongering, warmongering, terrorist surprise attack narrative.





Well, I'm glad we finally got there. So thanks for that.

Finally? We got there a while ago, didn't "we"?:

There would be nothing wrong with it if it didn't relate to Sylvan8798's remarks or the real world.



I think I’m starting to see the problem. You're labouring under the misconception that the predicate “Tx: x is a Truther” means I can’t be referring to more than one. But of course I can (and do). That’s what the quantifiers are for. Perhaps this confusion stems from the fact you simply don’t understand formal logic. If not, no worries. Just say so.

I'm not interested in your "formal logic". I only want to know, in plain English, how it can be considered logical to claim that a sample of two people can be used to support a generalization about thousands or millions of people. If your formula demonstrates this please explain how it does so, in English. Thanks

[JihadJane]

Ah... nice to see the antisemitism....
.

Please explain how you arrived at your anti-semitism analysis because, as it stands, it looks like nothing more than crude mud slinging.

[MikeW]

For a real journalists view of what really happened on 911....
Bollyn? He lies in his 9/11 stories; he was sacked for lying; he's on the run because a jury thinks he's a liar, too.

Although actually, now I come to think of it, he really is an appropriate figurehead for 9/11 truth. Don't mind me: please, carry on.

[tuc0]

I'm a skeptic.


No, you are not. That's just wishful thinking.

[JihadJane]

No, you are not. That's just wishful thinking.

Please substantiate your assertions.

Thanks.

[tuc0]

Please substantiate your assertion.

Thanks.
A skeptic is someone who demands evidence... and then goes where that evidence leads. You on the other hand like to work backwards from a conclusion and only accept evidence that supports what you want to be true. That's a major difference.

[sylvan8798]

Getting back to the topic of dangerous truthers, here is a rather disturbing collection of comments in response to this article on infowars.com (profanity warning, these are uncensored):

http://www.infowars.com/obama-will-surrender-america-to-world-government/

A typical posting: Sure, and we can make SAMs to take out their air power.

We BUY as many as we can get, but the heat-seekers can

be made cheaper by using radio-control. A guy hidden on

the ground just guides the rocket into the exhaust of the helo.

If camel-drivers and rug merchants can KICK THEIR ASSES

WE CAN TOO.

One from "RJB" who appears to be driving the discussion:

If two of them die for every one of us, then we will win handily, and in short order.

My goal is simple, and that is to succeed in taking out more than one of them. I will consider that a victory. I do not need to be an Audy Murphy, and our cause does not need anyone like that to succeed.

If there are 3 million top globalist elites in the world, then we could wipe them all out with a sacrifice of 1.5 million of us.

I suspect that we could take out the top 300 and the **** would stop immediately. If not, then we move down the line to the top 3,000. And so on, UNTIL THE ******** STOPS, AND THEY STOP WAGING WAR AGAINST THE REST OF US.

One hopes someone is keeping an eye on these kooks.

[JihadJane]

A skeptic is someone who demands evidence... and then goes where that evidence leads. You on the other hand like to work backwards from a conclusion and only accept evidence that supports what you want to be true. That's a major difference.

Please provide concrete evidence for your further unsubstantiated assertions about me.

Thanks.


Getting back to the topic of dangerous truthers, here is a rather disturbing collection of comments in response to this article on infowars.com (profanity warning, these are uncensored):

http://www.infowars.com/obama-will-surrender-america-to-world-government/

A typical posting:

One from "RJB" who appears to be driving the discussion:



One hopes someone is keeping an eye on these kooks.

They sound like many other ordinary Americans who glorify violence, some of whom post their militaristic fantasies and preoccupations with military hardware on this very forum.

Putting aside the deficiencies in your sampling method (!!) , do you have any evidence that these posters are "truthers"? Can you identify who they are?

No-one with genuine intent to carry out violent acts against their own government is likely to publicize their plans in advance on the Awex Jones website!

[tuc0]

Please provide concrete evidence for your further unsubstantiated assertions about me.

I won't bother. You win. You are a skeptic!

[JihadJane]

I won't bother. You win. You are a skeptic!

Hooray!

;)

[sylvan8798]

They sound like many other ordinary Americans who glorify violence, some of whom post their militaristic fantasies and preoccupations with military hardware on this very forum.


Truthers have shown time and again their inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality. And don't many of these nutcase mass shooters start out with a fantasy that they then put into action? Or doesn't that happen on your planet?

[Par]

Tell that to your logic teacher.UD/DD: People.
Tx: x is a Truther.
Dx: x is dangerous.
Lxy: x is y's logic teacher.
r: Richard Poplawski.
v: James von Brunn.
p: Par.
j: JihadJane.


[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)→¬∃x(Tx∧Dx)]
[(Tr∧Dr)∧(Tv∧Dv)]
∴∃x(Tx∧Dx)
∴¬[∀x(Tx→¬Dx)]
∴Lpj
You put logic in sneer quotes. If you think something’s logically wrong with it, then be specific about where.Sorry, I thought I was being very specific. If we forget about defining "truther" for the moment, the premise that Sylvan8798's statement, "Tell that to the families of Richard Poplawski's victim's in Pittsburgh, and James von Brunn's victim's in Washington, JJ", supports would be something like "Two Truthers are dangerous", but certainly not the generalization "Truthers are dangerous".I think we have our wires crossed. You sneered at my logic. I asked you to be specific about what is wrong with my logic, rather than what is wrong with Sylvan8798's remarks.There would be nothing wrong with it if it didn't relate to Sylvan8798's remarks or the real world.Erm. Well, that’s not all that precise. In fact, I just don't know what you mean. If I’ve made a logical mistake – which is of course possible – I’d like to know about it. So, can you be specific about what I get wrong?I don't know how to make it more precise. There's nothing wrong with your logic in itself but it fails to recognize the collective nature of the noun "Truthers" ("Tx: x is a Truther") and therefore your very logical logic doesn’t apply to my statement or, as I understood it, to the OP’s. Perhaps "irrelevant" would be more accurate than "illogical".I think I’m starting to see the problem. You're labouring under the misconception that the predicate “Tx: x is a Truther” means I can’t be referring to more than one. But of course I can (and do). That’s what the quantifiers are for. Perhaps this confusion stems from the fact you simply don’t understand formal logic. If not, no worries. Just say so.I'm not interested in your "formal logic". I only want to know, in plain English...


Right, so you initially gave it large about logic and now, despite much bluffing and evasion, you’ve finally had to admit it’s a subject you know nothing about; first you were snide about other people’s logic, and now – now you’ve been caught out – logic itself is to be sneered at. This is Trutherdom in microcosm; first claim your position is supported by experts and then, when people who actually know what they’re talking about show up, start sneering at them – and at expertise itself – by insisting on a return to a layman's framework: pure anti-intellectualism.


I'm not interested in your "formal logic". I only want to know, in plain English, how it can be considered logical to claim that a sample of two people can be used to support a generalization about thousands or millions of people. If your formula demonstrates this please explain how it does so, in English.


By the way, no, it doesn’t demonstrate that. Nor does it attempt to. You would know what it means if knew anything about logic.

[Nosi]

Look at what Jones had in his studio 9 years ago and compare it to what he has now. Then explain to me how he managed to upgrade to all of those big HD flat screens and everything else you see in the background without making money hand over fist. Are you suggesting that he lives in poverty while sinking every extra cent into his studio? Your "Heroes" are fleecing you and you gladly let them.

It's very possible that Jones may be in cute with some company or corporate fat cat.

"I'll scratch your back you scratch mine" (hense the big HD flat screens). That line is as old if not older than time.

Does a bear :rule10 in the woods or take up honey? A bear is known to do both. If I was a skeptic, I would be curious about any silent partners.

[johnny karate]

Please explain how you arrived at your anti-semitism analysis because, as it stands, it looks like nothing more than crude mud slinging.

Please substantiate your assertions.

Please provide concrete evidence for your further unsubstantiated assertions about me.

In your rush to demand evidence of others, you seemed to have forgotten to provide any of your own. Or is substantiating claims something that applies to everyone except you?

[sylvan8798]

Humans are dangerous

Truthers aren't dangerous.

Professor Par, can we conclude from this construction that Truthers aren't human?

Human -> dangerous

Truthers ~ dangerous

Ergo: Truthers not human

??:(

[jmh423]

Then you should be able to source any of your claims.



I have... EVERY SINGLE claim made by twoofs... and they always come back to a twoof who needs remedial english classes for their poor reading comprehension.

why don't you tell me what they are about... I've read them. Feel free, show us your fantastic reading comprehension skills.


Ah... nice to see the antisemitism.... da jooooooz did it. It would help if you had any facts, or even a coherent idea of what happened.

p.s. the joooooz know exactly who you are and where... they will be by with bagels and some cheese soon.

I guess that it is alright to claim that certain radical factions of Islam are responsible for all the terrorism in the world...Or to accuse protestants like Cheney, the Bush's, & the British & Dutch Royals of complicity in all the wars and disease of the last 300 years...Or the pedofilic Catholic Vatican wing and it's devotion to facism and nazism...None of those assertions will bring a charge of racism or nazism from the well rehearsed peanut galleries here on JREF or throughout the net...But make any reference to the pseudo-Jew bolchevik terrorists of Israel, like Begin, Ben Gurion, Sharon, Olmert, Netanyahu et al, or the dual citizen traitors who have oozed into US government in droves in the last 30 yrs like Kissinger, Wolfowitz, Zakheim, Chertoff and the like and they stand and scream "anti-semite"! Traitors and scum hide behind all religious factions...Also I really liked the little backhanded threat at the end of your post....And I'm shakin' all over...LOL...Now I have to fear the Jews as well as the ARABS!!! Oh No..

[johnny karate]

Right, so you initially gave it large about logic and now, despite much bluffing and evasion, you’ve finally had to admit it’s a subject you know nothing about; first you were snide about other people’s logic, and now – now you’ve been caught out – logic itself is to be sneered at. This is Trutherdom in microcosm; first claim your position is supported by experts and then, when people who actually know what they’re talking about show up, start sneering at them – and at expertise itself – by insisting on a return to a layman's framework: pure anti-intellectualism.

Ouch.

Nicely done, Par.

So what odds are currently being given that JihadJane will now completely evade this topic, if not flee the thread altogether?

[JihadJane]

Right, so you initially gave it large about logic and now, despite much bluffing and evasion,

Wrong

...you’ve finally had to admit it’s a subject you know nothing about;

I've never once claimed to know anything about formal logic

... first you were snide about other people’s logic,

true, it stank.

.. and now – now you’ve been caught out –

No, I haven't been "caught out".

..logic itself is to be sneered at. This is Trutherdom in microcosm; first claim your position is supported by experts and then, when people who actually know what they’re talking about show up, start sneering at them – and at expertise itself – by insisting on a return to a layman's framework: pure anti-intellectualism.



Once again, I've never claimed to be an expert in formal logic though, looking at your equations, it doesn't look like it would be a difficult language to learn.

I'm not interested in playing "I'm better at abstracting than you are" games.

Put down your distorting "Trutherdom" glasses and demonstrate how your logic relates to the OP.

I wasn't sneering at logic, the science, but the logic of the OP and Sylvan8798's statement and the way you apparently attempted to give it respectability with your apparently unrelated logic equations. Sorry if I hurt your logic feelings. Perhaps you aren't attempting to support the OP's decidedly unscientific project of smearing 911 skepticism. If not, then what is the relevance of your logic demonstration? Why can’t you explain what your symbols say in plain English?

By the way, no, it doesn’t demonstrate that. Nor does it attempt to. You would know what it means if knew anything about logic.



What, then, in your opinion, is it demonstrating? Educate me.

The OP (and it's not the first on JREF to play this Killer Truther game) seeks to demonstrate that truthers are dangerous. It does so by stating that they are with a rhetorical When-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife?-type question. Sylvan8798 joins in by citing two examples.

How does your logic relate to this concrete, real-world event? I want to know.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Truthers have shown time and again their inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality.

And don't many of these nutcase mass shooters start out with a fantasy that they then put into action? Or doesn't that happen on your planet?

Without actually studying the people in question your conjecture is no different from Truthers' or anyone else's fantasies that you don't like. Where is your concrete evidence? Do you know anything about the killers' psychology beyond what you are apparently guessing at? Do you know what happened to them during their formative years?

And don't you think it's about time we defined this term "Truthers"?

Are you being logical and scientific?

It looks like pure speculation to me, possibly tinged with hope.

[W.D.Clinger]

true, it stank.

Correct.


Why can’t you explain what your symbols say in plain English?

Lpj ? Wait for it...


What, then, in your opinion, is it demonstrating? Educate me.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Will

[johnny karate]

I wasn't sneering at logic, the science, but the logic of the OP and Sylvan8798's statement and the way you apparently attempted to give it respectability with your apparently unrelated logic equations. Sorry if I hurt your logic feelings. Perhaps you aren't attempting to support the OP's decidedly unscientific project of smearing 911 skepticism. If not, then what is the relevance of your logic demonstration? Why can’t you explain what your symbols say in plain English?

You were the one who brought a "logic teacher" into the discussion. Logic teachers teach formal logic. If you didn't care to discuss this topic in terms beyond your intellectual capacity, then maybe you shouldn't have made a crack implying that you have knowledge of something which you clearly don't.

But speaking for all of us laughing at you flaming out in yet another thread, I'm quite pleased that you did. :D

[NutCracker]

And don't you think it's about time we defined this term "Truthers"?

Are you being logical and scientific?

It looks like pure speculation to me, possibly tinged with hope.


Hear. hear, hear. Another ******* on ignore!

[triforcharity]

<snipped> One hopes someone is keeping an eye on these kooks.

NWO secret agent NozedAvenger is assigned to this preticular concern.

[funk de fino]

Please provide concrete evidence for your further unsubstantiated assertions about me.

What was it that first peaked your interest of 911 as an inside job? You said it was from rhetoric after the 7/7 attacks. You made a decision on 911 due to rhetoric from an unrelated attack not because of evidence. You started off thinking it was an inside job. You ignore evidence which proves your claims wrong.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Only if the Truthers were this rebellious against the head honchos of the Truth Movement:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1824771

<For those who love Super Mario>

[Lupie]

Getting back to the topic of dangerous truthers, here is a rather disturbing collection of comments in response to this article on infowars.com (profanity warning, these are uncensored):

http://www.infowars.com/obama-will-surrender-america-to-world-government/

A typical posting:

One from "RJB" who appears to be driving the discussion:



One hopes someone is keeping an eye on these kooks.

Kooks indeed,

Talking about constructing/obtaining a destructive device for the purpose of shooting down aircraft, and having that conversation in a public forum, is a very good way to attract the attention of the relevant agencies, and end up having someone keep an eye on you.

Add to that, the talk in that forum of actually contacting Al-Qaeda for assistance with such things, and you have a fairly visible red flag. Chances are, being troothers, they are just a bunch of big-talkers and morons who don't actually mean what the say, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be looked at.

L.

[sylvan8798]

Add to that, the talk in that forum of actually contacting Al-Qaeda for assistance with such things, and you have a fairly visible red flag. Chances are, being troothers, they are just a bunch of big-talkers and morons who don't actually mean what the say, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be looked at.

I think actually giving people detailed instructions on how to commit a crime might not fall within the confines of the first amendment. Not that they've gotten that specific, but it has to be getting into a grey area over there. Out of a group of hundreds (or thousands?) there are always a few who are on the edge, mentally, and just need a little teensy push.

[Lupie]

I think actually giving people detailed instructions on how to commit a crime might not fall within the confines of the first amendment. Not that they've gotten that specific, but it has to be getting into a grey area over there. Out of a group of hundreds (or thousands?) there are always a few who are on the edge, mentally, and just need a little teensy push.


It's definitely a grey area over there. Generally, offering to supply, or having in one's posession the instructions for building a destructive device is not illegal, although there are exceptions. But if one starts gathering the necessary components for the device, it is illegal even if they have not actually constructed the device yet. But with all the other violent/illegal acts they are talking about in that thread, like the abduction/murder of the families of military and government employees, they are very much in a grey area.

I think most truthers are not so totally gone that they would act upon the things mentioned in those infowars posts, but like you say, it only takes a few who are near the edge, who get that final push, and end up doing something terrible in the name of their movement. We have all seen posts on truther websites where a person threatens to commit an act of violence, and rather than site administrators, moderators, and members discouraging the person, they egg them on and even offer to help.

L.

[jmh423]

What was it that first peaked your interest of 911 as an inside job? You said it was from rhetoric after the 7/7 attacks. You made a decision on 911 due to rhetoric from an unrelated attack not because of evidence. You started off thinking it was an inside job. You ignore evidence which proves your claims wrong.

What evidence is there that traitors within the US government like Cheney, Bush & Zakheim were not complicit in the 911 attacks? To the contrary, the evidence certainly suggests that there was inside help from US sources as well as Mossad, ISI, & Saudi Intel. Read:"Solving 911-The Book"

http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book


.....Free On The Web....All the evidence points to the fact that this attack was orchestrated and choreographed by a sophistocated well funded ($billions) international cabal, not a rogue shadowy band of fundementalists. Trillions have been made as a result of these attacks...Follow the money...It is almost always the ones who profit or benifit that are responsible for murders.

[Brainache]

What evidence is there that traitors within the US government like Cheney, Bush & Zakheim were not complicit in the 911 attacks? To the contrary, the evidence certainly suggests that there was inside help from US sources as well as Mossad, ISI, & Saudi Intel. Read:"Solving 911-The Book"

http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book


.....Free On The Web....All the evidence points to the fact that this attack was orchestrated and choreographed by a sophistocated well funded ($billions) international cabal, not a rogue shadowy band of fundementalists. Trillions have been made as a result of these attacks...Follow the money...It is almost always the ones who profit or benifit that are responsible for murders.

So we should suspect Alex Jones?

[jmh423]

"Unraveling the myth of al Queda".....Global Research....al CIAda and the Bin Ladens are and always have been CIA assets.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7787

[jmh423]

Edited for civility.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Edit for response to modded post.

[BobHaulk]

i thought the title of this thread was Are Truthers Dangermouse? but alas not.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

i thought the title of this thread was Are Truthers Dangermouse? but alas not.

http://www.transdiffusion.org/tmc/thames/images/ibag1985-dangermouse.gif

He's the fastest he's the greatest he's the best DANGER MOUSE!

[JihadJane]

Kooks indeed,

Talking about constructing/obtaining a destructive device for the purpose of shooting down aircraft, and having that conversation in a public forum, is a very good way to attract the attention of the relevant agencies, and end up having someone keep an eye on you.

Add to that, the talk in that forum of actually contacting Al-Qaeda for assistance with such things, and you have a fairly visible red flag. Chances are, being troothers, they are just a bunch of big-talkers and morons who don't actually mean what the say, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be looked at.

L.

How do you know they are even "troothers" (whatever that is translated into grown-up language)?

Does your skepticism only operate in certain directions?

[Caustic Logic]

i thought the title of this thread was Are Truthers Dangermouse? but alas not.

Don't mock it, this is a very realistice threat from extremists! I haven't been following, but we have decided 911Kongen is not really Danger Mouse himself, right?

[Lupie]

Edited for response to modded post.

[TruthersLie]

I guess that it is alright to claim that certain radical factions of Islam are responsible for all the terrorism in the world.


strawman, and a piss poor one at that twoof. No one has claimed athat ALL of the terrorism in the world in from Islam.

But when it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and floats on water it is obviously a giraffe.

Even the Muslims ALL OVER THE WORLD agree that their religion has issues with extremists.


..Or to accuse protestants like Cheney, the Bush's, & the British & Dutch Royals of complicity in all the wars and disease of the last 300 years...

Bush hasn't been alive that long... now cheney on the other hand I can see...

try again, maybe this time with facts. Not conjecture, not racism or a blind hatred of a group.


Or the pedofilic Catholic Vatican wing and it's devotion to facism and nazism...

Irrelevant to 9/11. Generally irrelevant unless you have been touched by one of those priests... oh wait a minute


None of those assertions will bring a charge of racism or nazism from the well rehearsed peanut galleries here on JREF or throughout the net...But make any reference to the pseudo-Jew bolchevik terrorists of Israel, like Begin, Ben Gurion, Sharon, Olmert, Netanyahu et al, or the dual citizen traitors who have oozed into US government in droves in the last 30 yrs like Kissinger, Wolfowitz, Zakheim, Chertoff and the like and they stand and scream "anti-semite"!


No what gets you labeled that is when you start making accustaions w/out proof based on heresy and outright lies. That makes you an antisemite. When you grab a problem and IMMEDIATELY blame the jews... then you are an antisemite... if you think there should be a "solution" for them jooooooz... then you are a bigot and an antisemite.

AGain twoof, I live in a muslim nation that has NO love for the israelis... and they admit that UBL did it (since 2 of their own citizens were part of 9/11... having met their families, EVEN THEIR FAMILIES KNOW THEY DID IT). Come out to the arab world, i can show you fantastic people, wonderfully open mined people... and in under an hour, I can take you places where you will be afraid for your life.


Traitors and scum hide behind all religious factions...


Yup they do. Now if you only had PROOF of your accusations of mass murder of innocents.. you don't. The PROOF is 19 terrorists hijacked 4 jets and flew them into 3 buildings. The OVERWHELMING proof supports that.


Also I really liked the little backhanded threat at the end of your post....And I'm shakin' all over...LOL...Now I have to fear the Jews as well as the ARABS!!! Oh No..

OH no... the reading for comprehension of the twoof strikes again... it wasn't a threat twoofie, it is called SARCASM. I knwo you don't understand it, anymore than you understand similies and metaphors... you really should look it up.

[Par]

Wrong [I didn't bluff/evade]... I've never once claimed to know anything about formal logic... No, I haven't been "caught out".


What a weird little salad of lies. It’s all there in black and white (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5220263&postcount=126) for everyone to see. Everyone’s already seen it. Who could you be possibly hoping to fool – yourself?

[Par]

Lpj ? Wait for it... Quod erat demonstrandum.


Sumblime! JihadJane better watch his eyes on those brooches.

[Dave Rogers]

I guess that it is alright to claim that certain radical factions of Islam are responsible for all the terrorism in the world...

No, and if anyone were to claim (for example) that the IRA terrorism campaign against the UK were the work of radical Islamic factions, they'd get opposed and/or ridiculed like any other proponent of an indefensible position.

Or to accuse protestants like Cheney, the Bush's, & the British & Dutch Royals of complicity in all the wars and disease of the last 300 years...

I think that if anyone accused Dick Cheney of complicity in all the wars of the last 300 years, nobody would be able to post for laughing. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised to see it suggested on the David Icke forums.

Or the pedofilic Catholic Vatican wing and it's devotion to facism and nazism...

I find it remarkable that your entire mindset appears to be so thoroughly warped by conspiracism, that you can't even produce credible looking examples of non-conspiracist thinking, even though you try your hardest. I mean, really, when you can't even present your opponent's position as being different from your own, there's got to be something wrong with your reasoning.

Dave

[Nosi]

Kooks indeed,

Talking about constructing/obtaining a destructive device for the purpose of shooting down aircraft, and having that conversation in a public forum, is a very good way to attract the attention of the relevant agencies, and end up having someone keep an eye on you.

Add to that, the talk in that forum of actually contacting Al-Qaeda for assistance with such things, and you have a fairly visible red flag. Chances are, being troothers, they are just a bunch of big-talkers and morons who don't actually mean what the say, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be looked at.

L.

:jaw-dropp I know there's plenty of stupid on the tubes, but this is just...
:rule10 non-credible! These bone-brains are worried about Islam? Clues R Us is ->

:id:

[jmh423]

[QUOTE=TruthersLie;5224083]strawman, and a piss poor one at that twoof. No one has claimed athat ALL of the terrorism in the world in from Islam.

But when it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and floats on water it is obviously a giraffe.

Even the Muslims ALL OVER THE WORLD agree that their religion has issues with extremists.


Bush hasn't been alive that long... now cheney on the other hand I can see...

try again, maybe this time with facts. Not conjecture, not racism or a blind hatred of a group. (QUOTE)

1)You obviously can not wrap your brain around the concept of FALSE FLAG TERRORISM. My assertion as I have clearly stated is that Bin Laden and al Queda are assets of rogue elements of the CIA. There is evidence to back this assertion.

2)Many Jews, Catholics and Protestants ALL OVER THE WORLD also agree that their religions have issues with extremists. (or phonies posing as co religionists using these religion's as a false reason to take rash actions for their own political or monetary gain) Such as:

a)The extreme right wing pseudo christians in America who believe that a holy war is being fought in the middle east, and cheered Bushco into these ridiculous confrontations.

b)The lunitic right wing neoCON "Jews" who are hiding behind the Jewish religion that I believe were EXTREMELY instrumental in getting the US into these idiotic wars.

THESE lunitics gave Bush, Cheney and company the political capital needed to engage in two destructive costly wars. 4000 US soldiers dead along with a million innocent Iraqis & Afghanis and trillions of dollars spent from the now bankrupt US economy

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

jmh423strawman, and a piss poor one at that twoof. No one has claimed athat ALL of the terrorism in the world in from Islam.

But when it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck and floats on water it is obviously a giraffe.

Even the Muslims ALL OVER THE WORLD agree that their religion has issues with extremists.


Bush hasn't been alive that long... now cheney on the other hand I can see...

try again, maybe this time with facts. Not conjecture, not racism or a blind hatred of a group. (QUOTE)

1)You obviously can not wrap your brain around the concept of FALSE FLAG TERRORISM. My assertion as I have clearly stated is that Bin Laden and al Queda are assets of rogue elements of the CIA. There is evidence to back this assertion.

2)Many Jews, Catholics and Protestants ALL OVER THE WORLD also agree that their religions have issues with extremists. (or phonies posing as co religionists using these religion's as a false reason to take rash actions for their own political or monetary gain) Such as:

a)The extreme right wing pseudo christians in America who believe that a holy war is being fought in the middle east, and cheered Bushco into these ridiculous confrontations.

b)The lunitic right wing neoCON "Jews" who are hiding behind the Jewish religion that I believe were EXTREMELY instrumental in getting the US into these idiotic wars.

THESE lunitics gave Bush, Cheney and company the political capital needed to engage in two destructive costly wars. 4000 US soldiers dead along with a million innocent Iraqis & Afghanis and trillions of dollars spent from the now bankrupt US economy

Do I hear Alex Jones Jr. spread some BS again or is he just a figment of my imagination?

[NutCracker]

1)You obviously can not wrap your brain around the concept of FALSE FLAG TERRORISM. My assertion as I have clearly stated is that Bin Laden and al Queda are assets of rogue elements of the CIA. There is evidence to back this assertion.

2)Many Jews, Catholics and Protestants ALL OVER THE WORLD also agree that their religions have issues with extremists. (or phonies posing as co religionists using these religion's as a false reason to take rash actions for their own political or monetary gain) Such as:

a)The extreme right wing pseudo christians in America who believe that a holy war is being fought in the middle east, and cheered Bushco into these ridiculous confrontations.

b)The lunitic right wing neoCON "Jews" who are hiding behind the Jewish religion that I believe were EXTREMELY instrumental in getting the US into these idiotic wars.

THESE lunitics gave Bush, Cheney and company the political capital needed to engage in two destructive costly wars. 4000 US soldiers dead along with a million innocent Iraqis & Afghanis and trillions of dollars spent from the now bankrupt US economy

Repeating insane, racist nonsense does make it true, for sure.

[Brainache]

Do I hear Alex Jones Jr. spread some BS again or is he just a figment of my imagination?

You know what? I just realised that Alex Jones practises False Flag Journalism. He reports stuff as if he was a Journalist and as if it was true, with the sole purpose of fooling people into buying his merchandise.

Why aren't his fans calling him out on all of this? Because they are a bunch of stupid sheep incapable of thinking for themselves!!!11!1!!!!11!!!:duck:

[jmh423]

You know what? I just realised that Alex Jones practises False Flag Journalism. He reports stuff as if he was a Journalist and as if it was true, with the sole purpose of fooling people into buying his merchandise.

Why aren't his fans calling him out on all of this? Because they are a bunch of stupid sheep incapable of thinking for themselves!!!11!1!!!!11!!!:duck:

Or could it be that those who follow the mainstream news are a bunch of stupid sheep who let their televisions think their thoughts for them....There are no journalists employed by the networks anymore...Just a bunch of second rate actors with poofy hair who read the prescribed medium from teleprompters...Name ONE TV journalist working today...The only real news today comes fron Independent international sources who are not subsidized by corporations owned and controlled by war profiteers...Seek them out with your search engines....AJ is just one small source...

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Or could it be that those who follow the mainstream news are a bunch of stupid sheep who let their televisions think their thoughts for them....There are no journalists employed by the networks anymore...Just a bunch of second rate actors with poofy hair who read the prescribed medium from teleprompters...Name ONE TV journalist working today...The only real news today comes fron Independent international sources who are not subsidized by corporations owned and controlled by war profiteers...Seek them out with your search engines....AJ is just one small source...

So what JMH? You're a sheep!

BAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[Brainache]

Or could it be that those who follow the mainstream news are a bunch of stupid sheep who let their televisions think their thoughts for them....There are no journalists employed by the networks anymore...Just a bunch of second rate actors with poofy hair who read the prescribed medium from teleprompters...Name ONE TV journalist working today...The only real news today comes fron Independent international sources who are not subsidized by corporations owned and controlled by war profiteers...Seek them out with your search engines....AJ is just one small source...

Mark Davies.

John Pilger.

Oops that's two (there are more). Oh well if all you ever watch is the 6.00pm News on commercial TV, of course you are going to get a load of crap. If all you read are tabloid rags owned by Murdoch etc then of course you are reading crap. Why you come here and accuse people of doing stuff that we know we don't do is a mystery to me.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that this is a site for people who don't care about truth. You are wrong.

At the same time I have to point out to you that even if Alex Jones has never taken a corporate dollar in his life, it doesn't make what he says anymore reliable than the worst of Murdoch's corporation hacks.

He has absolutely no credibility and deserves nothing but contempt for the shabby way he lies and distorts everything he can just so he can sell more crap to credulous morons.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I guess JMH likes getting his butt handed to him all the time.

He comes here with an attitude, thinks he's "King" of all Alex Jones propaganda material and we're the ones that are the, excuse me for a moment, "SHEEP".

Yeah JMH got us all figured out alright, it's a shame he doesn't have a clue.

JMH:

"All hail Alex Jones! The God of Disinfo & propaganda! I worship thee!"

<Not an attack on JMH's charactor or himself. Just his format & presentation>

[Dave Rogers]

Many Jews, Catholics and Protestants ALL OVER THE WORLD also agree that their religions have issues with extremists. (or phonies posing as co religionists using these religion's as a false reason to take rash actions for their own political or monetary gain)

And, in fact, anybody sane would agree with that to some extent.

Look, you've had it pointed out that your "Debunkers think all terrorism is due to Islam" strawman is, in fact, a strawman, and yet you continue to attack it with frothing-mouthed vigour. All this demonstrates is that you're so wrapped up in your own delusions, you're incapable of seeing when you're wrong. That doesn't exactly give anyone much faith in your conclusions.

Dave

[TruthersLie]

1)You obviously can not wrap your brain around the concept of FALSE FLAG TERRORISM. My assertion as I have clearly stated is that Bin Laden and al Queda are assets of rogue elements of the CIA. There is evidence to back this assertion.


Oh no. I fully understand that there can be things like false flag terrorisms. You seem to NOT understand how BIG that conspiracy would HAVE to be in order for 9/11 to have been false flag. A conspiracy in the tens of thousands, yet NO ONE HAS EVER TALKED. Not to their priest, not to a shrink, not to a lover, or bragged about it in jail. NOT ONE PERSON. un****ingbelieveable.

Provide the EVIDENCE. (you can't, because it all comes down to insinuations and bs... LOOK IT UP)

And we can easily see that you have NO idea, experience or understanding of
1. military operations
2. Controlled Demolitions
3. Anything else related to 9/11.

Try to go back and educate yourself. It does help if you actually READ books


2)Many Jews, Catholics and Protestants ALL OVER THE WORLD also agree that their religions have issues with extremists. (or phonies posing as co religionists using these religion's as a false reason to take rash actions for their own political or monetary gain) Such as:

a)The extreme right wing pseudo christians in America who believe that a holy war is being fought in the middle east, and cheered Bushco into these ridiculous confrontations.

b)The lunitic right wing neoCON "Jews" who are hiding behind the Jewish religion that I believe were EXTREMELY instrumental in getting the US into these idiotic wars.


Yup... and there is NOTHING like the islamic terrorists in ANY of those groups. They exist, and they are all over the place in this part of the world (where I live).

Ask a muslim who did 9/11... they will tell you it was UBL and Al Q. It is amazing isnt it?

Blah blah blah



THESE lunitics gave Bush, Cheney and company the political capital needed to engage in two destructive costly wars.


see... here you go off the rails. 51% of the american public chose GWB in 2000, and 54% chose him in 2004. ARe all of those 100 MILLION americans "lunitics[sic]?"


4000 US soldiers dead along with a million innocent Iraqis & Afghanis and trillions of dollars spent from the now bankrupt US economy

Wow... you hit that RIGHT on the head... so Bush and Cheney and the JOOOOOOSSSS took the US to war (the biggest economy in the world, strongest military) so that it would.... cause the US to LOSE influence in the ME and allow Iran to gain it? Or to cause the US economy to melt down? Wait... that doesn't scan...

cuz da joooooooz are after MAKING money, and after reducing the power of IRAN.

Again twoof... simple easy question... if you were going to set it up, would you put in 19 hijackers WHO ARE NOT FROM THE COUNTRIES you invaded????

oh yes... this is what you believe
bYzIbOYaSy8

All of these seem to fit you...

[JihadJane]

What a weird little salad of lies. It’s all there in black and white (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5220263&postcount=126) for everyone to see. Everyone’s already seen it. Who could you be possibly hoping to fool – yourself?


So what is the connection betweeen your formal logic and the logic of the OP and other "Ooh look a Killer Truther! That proves Truthers are killers" logicians?




And, in fact, anybody sane would agree with that to some extent.

Look, you've had it pointed out that your "Debunkers think all terrorism is due to Islam" strawman is, in fact, a strawman, and yet you continue to attack it with frothing-mouthed vigour. All this demonstrates is that you're so wrapped up in your own delusions, you're incapable of seeing when you're wrong. That doesn't exactly give anyone much faith in your conclusions.

Dave

This statement reminds me of someone else's propensity for drawing deluded strawman conclusions while vigorously frothing at the mouth:

Congratulations on your flawless conspiracist logic. To defend an assertion that posters at JREF are all Republicans, simply extend the definition of "Republican" to include "Anybody who posts at JREF". It's not quite as impressive of your recent definition of the entire population of the world as terrorists, but it's still a very credible attempt to make any form of verbal communication irrelevant to you.

Dave

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

deluded strawman conclusions

If you can't present evidence JJ, then how can you claim that what we say is "strawman"?

Evidence backed up by witnesses, experts and investigators isn't "strawmen".

I think you should look up the word "deluded" at www.dictionary.com, you might find something about it.

Delude:

To elude or evade.

JJ, you like to elude and evade questions directed at you.

Like mine for example:

If RDX explosives were used, then how come the bomb sniffing dogs didn't detect any BEFORE 9/11?

[JihadJane]

Oh no. I fully understand that there can be things like false flag terrorisms. You seem to NOT understand how BIG that conspiracy would HAVE to be in order for 9/11 to have been false flag. A conspiracy in the tens of thousands,

Wrong. Others have suggested it would take less than 20 people.

yet NO ONE HAS EVER TALKED.

Wrong.

Wow... you hit that RIGHT on the head... so Bush and Cheney and the JOOOOOOSSSS took the US to war (the biggest economy in the world, strongest military) so that it would.... cause the US to LOSE influence in the ME and allow Iran to gain it? Or to cause the US economy to melt down? Wait... that doesn't scan...

cuz da joooooooz are after MAKING money, and after reducing the power of IRAN.

Again twoof... simple easy question... if you were going to set it up, would you put in 19 hijackers WHO ARE NOT FROM THE COUNTRIES you invaded????



Quite a rant! What is the connection between the "War on Terror" and the financial meltdown?

All that matters is demonizing and dehumanizing Muslims in general. It didn't matter one bit that the 911 gang weren't Iraqis in order to lubricate the rape of Iraq with their crime. Unfortunately for Muslims they live on top of or near a lot of fossil energy deposits, uncomfortably close to China, Russia and India, rising challengers of US global hegemony.

What do you think "JOOOOOOSSSS" might feel about you using them to satisfy your crude mud-slinging needs?

[sylvan8798]

Wrong. Others have suggested it would take less than 20 people.



So then you subscribe to the "tens of thousands of people are as dumb as hammers" approach, which is just as stupid. Face it, the whole false flag idea vis-a-vis 9/11 is just plain ridiculous.

[JihadJane]

So then you subscribe to the "tens of thousands of people are as dumb as hammers" approach, which is just as stupid. Face it, the whole false flag idea vis-a-vis 9/11 is just plain ridiculous.

Please expand your point because I have only an inkling what you are trying to communicate vis-a-vis my post.

Remember that the majority of US soldiers sent to invade Iraq believed they were doing so to avenge the victims of 9/11. Do you think they were all "dumb as hammers"?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/263894adeea0f01fee.jpg

Is the woman on the left as dumb as a hammer? [U.S DoD photo]

(Photo source: 'Media Distortion: Killing Innocent Afghan Civilians to "Save Our Troops"
Eight Years of Horror Perpetrated agaisnt the people of Afghanistan' (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15665))

[Childlike Empress]

Here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89351)'s Dr Adequate presenting his minimalist MIHOP scenario. Could have theoretically been an Inside Job/False Flag without even being a conspiracy.

Like the anthrax letters.

[Dave Rogers]

This statement reminds me of someone else's propensity for drawing deluded strawman conclusions while vigorously frothing at the mouth:

You said that anyone involved in war is a terrorist. Who exactly is not a citizen of a country fighting a war or a producer of goods used by countries fighting a war? I think you'll find it's an insignificantly small proportion of the human race.

Dave

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

JJ didn't see what the woman in the picture was writting on the bomb:

"What goes around comes around."

Quite befitting for JJ, don't ya think?

[JihadJane]

You said that anyone involved in war is a terrorist.

No I didn't.

I said war was terrorism.

Others have expressed the sentiment by saying that suicide bombers are the air force of the poor.

Who exactly is not a citizen of a country fighting a war or a producer of goods used by countries fighting a war? I think you'll find it's an insignificantly small proportion of the human race.

Dave

Doesn't it embarrass you to be reduced to the kind of tap dancing you profess to despise?

[Dave Rogers]

Doesn't it embarrass you to be reduced to the kind of tap dancing you profess to despise?

I confess to hyperbole. It isn't a capital offense yet.

Dave

[JihadJane]

I confess to hyperbole. It isn't a capital offense yet.

Dave

Ok, I'll recall the hangman, this time.

;)

[Par]

Right, so you initially gave it large about logic and now, despite much bluffing and evasion,... you’ve been caught out...Wrong ... I've never once claimed to know anything about formal logic... No, I haven't been "caught out". What a weird little salad of lies. It’s all there in black and white (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5220263&postcount=126) for everyone to see. Everyone’s [I]already seen it. Who could you be possibly hoping to fool – yourself?So what is the connection betweeen your formal logic and the logic of the OP and other "Ooh look a Killer Truther! That proves Truthers are killers" logicians?


I see. You get caught blagging, then you get caught lying, and now – without as much as an acknowledgement of either – you want to forget all that and start again like nothing's happened. Well, I bet you do! In light of your seemingly effortless detachment from truth and honesty, what earthly benefit do you think I should see in continuing a normal discussion with you – let alone providing you with free logic tuition?

[jmh423]

Oh no. I fully understand that there can be things like false flag terrorisms. You seem to NOT understand how BIG that conspiracy would HAVE to be in order for 9/11 to have been false flag. A conspiracy in the tens of thousands, yet NO ONE HAS EVER TALKED. Not to their priest, not to a shrink, not to a lover, or bragged about it in jail. NOT ONE PERSON. un****ingbelieveable.

Provide the EVIDENCE. (you can't, because it all comes down to insinuations and bs... LOOK IT UP)

And we can easily see that you have NO idea, experience or understanding of
1. military operations
2. Controlled Demolitions
3. Anything else related to 9/11.

Try to go back and educate yourself. It does help if you actually READ books


Yup... and there is NOTHING like the islamic terrorists in ANY of those groups. They exist, and they are all over the place in this part of the world (where I live).

Ask a muslim who did 9/11... they will tell you it was UBL and Al Q. It is amazing isnt it?

Blah blah blah




see... here you go off the rails. 51% of the american public chose GWB in 2000, and 54% chose him in 2004. ARe all of those 100 MILLION americans "lunitics[sic]?"



Wow... you hit that RIGHT on the head... so Bush and Cheney and the JOOOOOOSSSS took the US to war (the biggest economy in the world, strongest military) so that it would.... cause the US to LOSE influence in the ME and allow Iran to gain it? Or to cause the US economy to melt down? Wait... that doesn't scan...

cuz da joooooooz are after MAKING money, and after reducing the power of IRAN.

Again twoof... simple easy question... if you were going to set it up, would you put in 19 hijackers WHO ARE NOT FROM THE COUNTRIES you invaded????

oh yes... this is what you believe
bYzIbOYaSy8

All of these seem to fit you...

A good indicator of the "accuracy of your information would be your statement that "51% of the US public chose Bush in 2000". Even those who accept the fraud in Florida and legitimize the presidency of Bush would acknowledge the FACT that Gore won the overall popular vote. You are just another blowhard who spews disinfo with wreckless abandon and hopes that nobody notices....We all notice champy...

Another example would be "Ask a muslim who did 911 they will tell you UBL & AQ"...Amazing bla bla bla.....LOL...So we are to believe that you who apparently claim to live in some US/British enclave in the middle east have a grasp on the pulse of the "muslim" public opinion.....LOL.... Cite a credible public opinion poll taken of the muslim world in general instead of just expecting everyone to accept your word as truth because you registered on the JREF as one who lives in the UAE....

As far as reading a book or two...Maybe you should try reading a few books yourself. Your commentary suggests one of a person who gets all his worldviews from FOX, CNN and the like..(I sure haven't seen any deviation in your opinions re 911 from what has been puked out by those two or any other network hacks) .And your debunking style is right out of the Davin Colburn Ben Chertoff Popular Mechanics debunkers handbook for beginners. There is not an original thought rattling around in that orb atop your shoulders...

Nothing you have posted leads me to believe that YOU have any "ideas, experience or understanding of:

1. military operations
2. Controlled Demolitions
3. Anything else related to 9/11.

Again, you are just a typical parrot for the official Bush-Cheney narrative of 911. (which has been proven false on hundreds of points) Your views can be heard 24-7 on any AM talk show. Thanks

[CptColumbo]

For a real journalists view of what really happened on 911....

http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

Or you can keep referring to the JREF-Popular Mechanics Professional Debunking kit contained right here on this site FREE of charge..A giant supermarket of plauseable deniability......And keep parroting the same stale crap that Wolf Blitzer, Sean Hannity, and the rest of the ministry of propaganda have been spewing for 9 years +....Be afraid of those swarthy bearded evil ARABS!!! Be very afraid..Give up your personal freedom to fight ARAB terrorists.....LOL
"[R]eal journalist?"

You mean the guy who asked just two people (cold called them) if they were related to the then director of DHS, got confirmation from only one (who later claimed she didn't confirm it and he hadn't taped the conversation), did no further research and ran with the story?

That's very poor journalism.

[johnny karate]

Wrong. Others have suggested it would take less than 20 people.

Please provide an inside job scenario involving less than 20 people you find plausible.

Wrong.
Please name anyone involved in a supposed inside job who has come forward.

[johnny karate]

Here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89351)'s Dr Adequate presenting his minimalist MIHOP scenario. Could have theoretically been an Inside Job/False Flag without even being a conspiracy.

Like the anthrax letters.

You do realize that the intellectual exercise you're linking specifically rules out the use of controlled demolitions, thus robbing the Truth Movement of their favorite talking point?

You can fly that one up the Truther flagpole, but I doubt anyone would salute.

[funk de fino]

A good indicator of the "accuracy of your information would be your statement that "51% of the US public chose Bush in 2000". Even those who accept the fraud in Florida and legitimize the presidency of Bush would acknowledge the FACT that Gore won the overall popular vote. You are just another blowhard who spews disinfo with wreckless abandon and hopes that nobody notices....We all notice champy...

Another example would be "Ask a muslim who did 911 they will tell you UBL & AQ"...Amazing bla bla bla.....LOL...So we are to believe that you who apparently claim to live in some US/British enclave in the middle east have a grasp on the pulse of the "muslim" public opinion.....LOL.... Cite a credible public opinion poll taken of the muslim world in general instead of just expecting everyone to accept your word as truth because you registered on the JREF as one who lives in the UAE....

As far as reading a book or two...Maybe you should try reading a few books yourself. Your commentary suggests one of a person who gets all his worldviews from FOX, CNN and the like..(I sure haven't seen any deviation in your opinions re 911 from what has been puked out by those two or any other network hacks) .And your debunking style is right out of the Davin Colburn Ben Chertoff Popular Mechanics debunkers handbook for beginners. There is not an original thought rattling around in that orb atop your shoulders...

Nothing you have posted leads me to believe that YOU have any "ideas, experience or understanding of:

1. military operations
2. Controlled Demolitions
3. Anything else related to 9/11.

Again, you are just a typical parrot for the official Bush-Cheney narrative of 911. (which has been proven false on hundreds of points) Your views can be heard 24-7 on any AM talk show. Thanks

You've never been to a muslim country have you?

[Childlike Empress]

You do realize that the intellectual exercise you're linking specifically rules out the use of controlled demolitions, thus robbing the Truth Movement of their favorite talking point?

You can fly that one up the Truther flagpole, but I doubt anyone would salute.


I don't care if anyone salutes and realize that you are trying to derail. "TruthersLie" was talking about "a False Flag operation". I wonder if he will read the link and acknowledge that his rant was based entirely on a false premise. Will you?

[TruthersLie]

Wrong. Others have suggested it would take less than 20 people.


Please provide a citation or link describing this covert false flag terrorist event that only needed 20 people... I'd love to see it.





Quite a rant! What is the connection between the "War on Terror" and the financial meltdown?


I didn't bring it up, I was belittling the idiot who did.


All that matters is demonizing and dehumanizing Muslims in general. It didn't matter one bit that the 911 gang weren't Iraqis in order to lubricate the rape of Iraq with their crime. Unfortunately for Muslims they live on top of or near a lot of fossil energy deposits, uncomfortably close to China, Russia and India, rising challengers of US global hegemony.


Ah yes.... As we all know ALL muslims are the same across countries... cuz one rag head is the same as the next... so we use 19 patsies (from Saudi, the UAE, and lebanon) who are NOT from the country we intended to invade (18 months later... with vastly different intelligence and ample reason to reinvade it). Cuz the it makes perfect sense to use people from different places...


What do you think "JOOOOOOSSSS" might feel about you using them to satisfy your crude mud-slinging needs?

I'm not stating they murdered 3,000 people... you should ask the twoof (of which you are a member) or as a member maybe you should tell a joooooooo that they were part of it. I'd love to see that reaction.

[johnny karate]

I don't care if anyone salutes and realize that you are trying to derail. "TruthersLie" was talking about "a False Flag operation". I wonder if he will read the link and acknowledge that his rant was based entirely on a false premise. Will you?

What is it you expect me to acknowledge? That somoene who doesn't believe 9/11 was an inside job or "false flag terrorism" started a thread based on the intellectual exercise of coming up with a scenario in which 9/11 might have been an inside job, and now you want to cite that as evidence?

And did you even read what you linked? The scenario wasn't exactly air-tight, as pointed out by other posters in the thread, and it was based on the existence of incredibly complex technology, the use and application of which gets completely glossed over. It wasn't at all researched or supported with real-world science, and I doubt it was meant to be taken very seriously in the first place.

Classic Trutherism 101: Take something out of context, pervert its intent, and then use it as substantiation for your argument. Delusional doesn't even begin to describe the cognitive dissonance on display in that leap of logic.

:boggled:

[funk de fino]

All that matters is demonizing and dehumanizing Muslims in general. It didn't matter one bit that the 911 gang weren't Iraqis in order to lubricate the rape of Iraq with their crime. Unfortunately for Muslims they live on top of or near a lot of fossil energy deposits, uncomfortably close to China, Russia and India, rising challengers of US global hegemony.

Not all of them and they are not the only ones. Lots of them live in places with next to zero fossil fuels.

[defaultdotxbe]

Please provide a citation or link describing this covert false flag terrorist event that only needed 20 people... I'd love to see it.
ive even seen truthers claim as low as 7

of course none of them can explain how 7 people could pull it off, they just say thats why they need a new investigation, lol

[tsig]

Wrong. Others have suggested it would take less than 20 people.





Well Bush and Cheney are two who are the other 17?

[johnny karate]

Please provide a citation or link describing this covert false flag terrorist event that only needed 20 people... I'd love to see it.

ive even seen truthers claim as low as 7

of course none of them can explain how 7 people could pull it off, they just say thats why they need a new investigation, lol

Which is why I specifically asked JihadJane to provide such a scenario he personally finds plausible. And which of course he won't, adding yet another unsubstantiated claim to a long list of unsubstantiated claims, and further establishing himself as a complete fraud.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Remember that the majority of US soldiers sent to invade Iraq believed they were doing so to avenge the victims of 9/11.
Evidence?

[defaultdotxbe]

Which is why I specifically asked JihadJane to provide such a scenario he personally finds plausible. And which of course he won't, adding yet another unsubstantiated claim to a long list of unsubstantiated claims, and further establishing himself as a complete fraud.
well to be fair (s)he just said "other have suggested" and those others can (and have) suggested all day, but not provided one viable theory of how it could be done, lol

[W.D.Clinger]

A good indicator of the "accuracy of your information would be your statement that "51% of the US public chose Bush in 2000". Even those who accept the fraud in Florida and legitimize the presidency of Bush would acknowledge the FACT that Gore won the overall popular vote. You are just another blowhard who spews disinfo with wreckless abandon and hopes that nobody notices....We all notice champy...

jmh423 is to be congratulated for having caught TruthersLie telling a falsehood. Bush received 50.5 million votes in 2000, not 100 million. Gore received 51 million.

Even with knowledge of those facts, I still don't know why truthers are dangerouse!
:confused:

[johnny karate]

well to be fair (s)he just said "other have suggested" and those others can (and have) suggested all day, but not provided one viable theory of how it could be done, lol

But JihadJane made this assertion while attempting to disprove the necessity of a conspiracy involving a large number of people. Any implausible scenario would fail to do this by virtue of its implausibility. For JihadJane to not be a liar in this particular case, he needs to provide a scenario that both requires less than 20 people and is plausible. Citing a scenario that merely exists leaves the door open for all manner of lizard-people-space-beam theories, and is too stupid a notion to even consider.

[funk de fino]

What evidence is there that traitors within the US government like Cheney, Bush & Zakheim were not complicit in the 911 attacks? To the contrary, the evidence certainly suggests that there was inside help from US sources as well as Mossad, ISI, & Saudi Intel. Read:"Solving 911-The Book"

http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book


.....Free On The Web....All the evidence points to the fact that this attack was orchestrated and choreographed by a sophistocated well funded ($billions) international cabal, not a rogue shadowy band of fundementalists. Trillions have been made as a result of these attacks...Follow the money...It is almost always the ones who profit or benifit that are responsible for murders.

You have linked an idiotic anti semite. You have nothing but an anti american bias.

[JihadJane]

I see. You get caught blagging, then you get caught lying, and now – without as much as an acknowledgement of either – you want to forget all that and start again like nothing's happened. Well, I bet you do! In light of your seemingly effortless detachment from truth and honesty, what earthly benefit do you think I should see in continuing a normal discussion with you – let alone providing you with free logic tuition?



Do whatever you like, though your moralistic stance could be interpreted a way of avoiding answering a question I have asked you several times.

I'd like to know how your logic relates to the logic implied by the rhetorical question: "Why are truthers dangerous"?





Well Bush and Cheney are two who are the other 17?

What makes you believe that Bush and Cheney were involved?



Please provide a citation or link describing this covert false flag terrorist event that only needed 20 people... I'd love to see it.

Without controlled demolitions (fine by me):

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89351

With demolitions: (also fine by me):

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/scenario404.html

Number of operatives unspecified.



Ah yes.... As we all know ALL muslims are the same across countries... cuz one rag head is the same as the next... so we use 19 patsies (from Saudi, the UAE, and lebanon) who are NOT from the country we intended to invade (18 months later... with vastly different intelligence and ample reason to reinvade it). Cuz the it makes perfect sense to use people from different places...



Muslims were the same enough in the minds of enough US Americans to have enabled the US to invade Iraq with no effective US internal political opposition. The delusion still seems potent enough to allow a large number to support the prospect of killing of yet more Muslims in Iran.

Why do you use the terms "rag head" and jooooos"? Do you get a vicarious thrill from your faux racism?


I'm not stating they murdered 3,000 people... you should ask the twoof (of which you are a member) or as a member maybe you should tell a joooooooo that they were part of it. I'd love to see that reaction.

The only people I've ever seen say anything about the "JOOOOOOSSSS" having dunnit have been over-excited people like yourself.

[jmh423]

You have linked an idiotic anti semite. You have nothing but an anti american bias.

Chris Bollyn and myself are PRO AMERICAN....Those that you defend are traitors to this country and have disdain for the US Constitution. You are a very confused little man....My condolences...I think Cheney is moving his whole Haliburton operation over your way after bilking the US taxpayers out of 100s of billions in fraudulant no bid contracts...That's the type of "Americans" you support & defend. Theiving Chickenhawk scum..I say they are traitors!! Enjoy your life over there as we don't need any more like you over here...Good riddance to you and Dick!!

[johnny karate]

Do whatever you like, though your moralistic stance could be interpreted a way of avoiding answering a question I have asked you several times.

Oh, goodie! It must be Demand a Response Day!

Why don't you start us off, JJ?

Here's just a few posts you've been rather cowardly dodging in this thread:
Rubbish, the Bush talking heads came up with their narrative on the same day as the attacks.
Citation, please.



Wrong. Others have suggested it would take less than 20 people.
Please provide an inside job scenario involving less than 20 people you find plausible.



NO ONE HAS EVER TALKED.
Wrong.
Please name anyone involved in a supposed inside job who has come forward.


Once you respond to these posts (and many others), then maybe you can point out how other people are avoiding your questions without looking like a raging, hypocritical fraud.

[johnny karate]

Chris Bollyn and myself are PRO AMERICAN....Those that you defend are traitors to this country and have disdain for the US Constitution. You are a very confused little man....My condolences...I think Cheney is moving his whole Haliburton operation over your way after bilking the US taxpayers out of 100s of billions in fraudulant no bid contracts...That's the type of "Americans" you support & defend. Theiving Chickenhawk scum..I say they are traitors!! Enjoy your life over there as we don't need any more like you over here...Good riddance to you and Dick!!

Can anyone decipher this post? My Crazy-to-English translator is on the fritz.

[funk de fino]

Chris Bollyn and myself are PRO AMERICAN....Those that you defend are traitors to this country and have disdain for the US Constitution. You are a very confused little man....My condolences...I think Cheney is moving his whole Haliburton operation over your way after bilking the US taxpayers out of 100s of billions in fraudulant no bid contracts...That's the type of "Americans" you support & defend. Theiving Chickenhawk scum..I say they are traitors!! Enjoy your life over there as we don't need any more like you over here...Good riddance to you and Dick!!


You have no idea what you are talking about. The no bid contracts made piss poor profits thats why they got rid of KBR. I do not support or defend anyone. I am not american and I hate Bush and Cheney but I will pull you up for telling lies and being uninformed.

My life is not where you think it is. You are mixing me up with someone else. The Halliburton operation has already moved headquarters over to Dubai, not very up to date with your false AJ crap are you?

[UNLoVedRebel]

Muslims were the same enough in the minds of enough US Americans to have enabled the US to invade Iraq with no effective US internal political opposition. The delusion still seems potent enough to allow a large number to support the prospect of killing of yet more Muslims in Iran.
JihadJane ripping a page from the Sylvia Brown playbook and playing the psychic card. Boring. Try a little harder. We are JREFers you know.

[defaultdotxbe]

Can anyone decipher this post? My Crazy-to-English translator is on the fritz.
i think it boils down to "i know you are but what am i?"

[TruthersLie]

A good indicator of the "accuracy of your information would be your statement that "51% of the US public chose Bush in 2000". Even those who accept the fraud in Florida and legitimize the presidency of Bush would acknowledge the FACT that Gore won the overall popular vote. You are just another blowhard who spews disinfo with wreckless abandon and hopes that nobody notices....We all notice champy...


Really? I love da twoof... Yes gore won the popular vote.. who won the electorial college again? Oh bush. doh. I could have put 49%... did I really have to spell it out in EXACT %'s? I guess for you I might have had to.


Another example would be "Ask a muslim who did 911 they will tell you UBL & AQ"...Amazing bla bla bla.....LOL...So we are to believe that you who apparently claim to live in some US/British enclave in the middle east have a grasp on the pulse of the "muslim" public opinion


I love ignorant twoofies. No widdle twoofie. I don't live in an enclave, or a "compound." I rent a villa mixed in the middle of the neighborhood. I have a mosque right next door where I hear call to prayer 5x a day. I regularly visit with my next door neighbors who are muslims (2 are from iran, one is an emirati (rather poor because he lives in our neighborhood), and 2 lebanese... and those are just 5 of the 8 villas around ours.

Try again, and this time try to look beyond your little racist views.


.....LOL.... Cite a credible public opinion poll taken of the muslim world in general instead of just expecting everyone to accept your word as truth because you registered on the JREF as one who lives in the UAE....

Sure thing. Does Al Jazeeria count? I have all of the video taped confessions of the hijackers on al jazeeria. And I could put up other videos in arabic which they state Al Q did it. Or you can do 5 minutes of REAL research and find them yourself.


As far as reading a book or two...Maybe you should try reading a few books yourself.


Please provide ANY which support ANY twoof claim. You know with facts, figures and evidence. So far, the vast majority of them are filled with crap (look at any of the DRG "books," and if they are the boylen (sp) "books" they aren't worth toilet paper... racist antisemite rantings with NO support. tsk tsk tsk.

You really should take a research methods class. I'd offer to let you register to take ours, but it is full.


Your commentary suggests one of a person who gets all his worldviews from FOX, CNN and the like..

massive swing and a massive miss. Thank you for playing though. Generally my news source is the BBC, Skynews, and Al Jazeeria.

(I sure haven't seen any deviation in your opinions re 911 from what has been puked out by those two or any other network hacks) .And your debunking style is right out of the Davin Colburn Ben Chertoff Popular Mechanics debunkers handbook for beginners. There is not an original thought rattling around in that orb atop your shoulders...

tsk tsk tsk... really? You got flagged a few posts back... wanna try again? The funny part is that when you do the REAL RESEARCH you start with a hypothesis, then examine the data. If the data doesn't work with the hypothesis, you refine the hypothesis. You don't start with a predone conclusion and try to make the data fit that conclusion. It is bad science.


Nothing you have posted leads me to believe that YOU have any "ideas, experience or understanding of:

1. military operations


YOu might just be surprised


2. Controlled Demolitions


Most definately surprised


3. Anything else related to 9/11.


Ah, but twoof I do have several things which I do know. Beyond military operations and controlled demolitions (having experience with both), I have fantastic reading comprehension skills, and outstanding research skills. That is all you really need to get to the bottom of 9/11.

still waiting for your evidence.


Again, you are just a typical parrot for the official Bush-Cheney narrative of 911. (which has been proven false on hundreds of points) Your views can be heard 24-7 on any AM talk show. Thanks

blah blah blah. Yes... we know... you are a member of the truth movement, why won't I believe that you are telling the truth? After all you call yourself a 9/11 truther.. not a 9/11 LIAR.

Try again Edited for rule 12 . This time with facts, evidence and support.

[stateofgrace]

Chris Bollyn and myself are PRO AMERICAN....Those that you defend are traitors to this country and have disdain for the US Constitution. You are a very confused little man....My condolences...I think Cheney is moving his whole Haliburton operation over your way after bilking the US taxpayers out of 100s of billions in fraudulant no bid contracts...That's the type of "Americans" you support & defend. Theiving Chickenhawk scum..I say they are traitors!! Enjoy your life over there as we don't need any more like you over here...Good riddance to you and Dick!!

And here it is, an almost perfect post that answers the OP, the reason why truthers are dangerous.

Thank you for answering with near perfection jmh423, maybe next time you post you could inject a touch more venom and rage to drive it home and get a perfect ten out of ten.

[TruthersLie]

I don't care if anyone salutes and realize that you are trying to derail. "TruthersLie" was talking about "a False Flag operation". I wonder if he will read the link and acknowledge that his rant was based entirely on a false premise. Will you?

Oh no, I read the link.

and it was hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.

a one man Head of black Ops who ran 9/11.

You are still missing the many hundreds if not thousands of other people who would HAVE to be involved (even in cells).

You miss out on the HOW to REMOTE CONTROL the aircraft (which is a major flaw in that original premise, which cannot be done with somethign like a walkie talkie/cell phone)

Since the premise is flawed and completely hilarious as sarcams, it doesn't apply.

Again, nice to see you have a sense of humor. Now pay particular attention to the list of all the people who would have to be involved (http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm) (particluarly for the newest twoof fad of "nanothermite")

[TruthersLie]

Without controlled demolitions (fine by me):

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89351



ah yes... again showing why twoofs are dangerous. Lack of critical reading comprehension skills. If you pay attention to that intellectual exercise, you will find a half dozen reasons it won't work handed to him almost immediately. And they are never countered except with a handwave of "new technology" or the "they have magic" defense.

try again.


With demolitions: (also fine by me):

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/scenario404.html

Number of operatives unspecified.


In this scenero you are still in the MINIMUM of HUNDREDS of people with inside information. Yet not one has ever squealed. It is rather amazing, but when you listen to twoofs, that number of "shills" and "agents" rises rather dramatically doesn't it?


Muslims were the same enough in the minds of enough US Americans to have enabled the US to invade Iraq with no effective US internal political opposition. The delusion still seems potent enough to allow a large number to support the prospect of killing of yet more Muslims in Iran.

As opposed to killing more muslims in Iran for their nuclear ambitions, and the desire to create nuclear weapons?

you should know they are vastly different issues... but then again, maybe not to you.


Why do you use the terms "rag head" and jooooos"? Do you get a vicarious thrill from your faux racism?


Since I was originally answering a neonazi antisemite, I needed to be "frothing at the mouth" enough to get my point across. Apparently I did.

Faux racism? Not at all. It is called sarcasm, you should look it up.


The only people I've ever seen say anything about the "JOOOOOOSSSS" having dunnit have been over-excited people like yourself.

Really? Then you must not ever look at the majority of the truther ideas... I mean according to the truth movement (which you are a fringe part of) 40,000 jews stayed home on 9/11, There were dancing Israelis, a van full of israelis, a mural of a jet hitting a building, and Mossad agents picked up.

Can't forget the USS liberty, nor all of the other jew connections... I really do think you may want to check out your own movement to see all of the really antisemitic ideas bandied about. Just go to any 9/11 youtube video and don't worry, the twoof racism will show up.

[TruthersLie]

Chris Bollyn and myself are PRO AMERICAN....Those that you defend are traitors to this country and have disdain for the US Constitution. You are a very confused little man....My condolences...I think Cheney is moving his whole Haliburton operation over your way after bilking the US taxpayers out of 100s of billions in fraudulant no bid contracts...That's the type of "Americans" you support & defend. Theiving Chickenhawk scum..I say they are traitors!! Enjoy your life over there as we don't need any more like you over here...Good riddance to you and Dick!!

Again twoof. Lack of reading for comprehension skills. Tsk tsk tsk.

I am the one who lives in the UAE (you know, dubai-haliburton, etc), not Funk.

No sir, you are an antisemite bigot. Just like Bollyn.

[johnny karate]

Missed this lovely bit of idiocy earlier:

Without controlled demolitions (fine by me):

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89351

Yeah, that's the same ridiculous thing Childlike Empress foolishly tried to pass off as as some kind of legitimate "inside job" scenario. The two of you seem to share a willingness to overlook its lack of detail or support by real-world science and technology.

But hey, when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to dishonestly twist something into supporting your pathetic argument, you've got to take what you can get, right?

With demolitions: (also fine by me):

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/scenario404.html

Number of operatives unspecified.

Equally stupid, if for different reasons.

Let's take a look a the section that explains the demolition of the WTC buildings:


The demolitions of the Twin Towers and Building 7 (http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc7.html) are accomplished through the detonation of high-explosive charges inconspicuously installed in all three buildings' elevator shafts, and, in the case of Building 7, small cutter charges placed adjacent perimeter columns near the building's base.

The number of explosive charges used in the Twin Towers is far less than would be employed in conventional demolitions of such large buildings, but their aggregate explosive energy is much greater. Each charge is contained in a capsule weighing about 40 pounds and encased in an impact- and fire-resistant casing similar to the casings that shield aircraft black boxes.

Each demolition charge has a detonator that goes off when it detects a radio signal that matches its unique code. Each charge is assigned to the nearest of a score of radio repeater clusters also hidden in the elevator shafts. During each tower's demolition sequence, a radio in Building 7 sends signals for the various explosive charges in rapid succession through the repeater clusters, forming a 2-level hub-and-spoke network. Software on the demolition-controlling computer allows the technicians to make last-minute changes to the programmed demolition sequences, such as to account for the positions at which the aircraft struck.

The high-explosive charges resemble conventional thermobaric devices, in which an initial charge disperses an explosive aerosol without detonating it, and a second charge ignites the aerosol, producing a strong blast wave. The delay between the dispersal and detonating charges is about five seconds, allowing the aerosol to traverse the distance between the elevator shafts and perimeter walls before being detonated. The explosive is designed to have almost no flash.

That's it.

That's the entire explanation.

No details. No specifics. Just an assertion that it wouldn't take many people to do as proof that it wouldn't take many people to do.

And for bonus points we get this:
While the attack is engineered by a core of only a dozen people, vast numbers of people facilitate the attack and cover-up, for the most part unknowingly, by simply doing what they normally do in their positions: promote and protect their agencies and the status quo. The public at large participates in the cover-up by failing to question the attack and instead believing the relatively comforting myth of bin Laden.

Again, an unsupported bare assertion fallacy with a healthy dollop of "the whole world is full of idiots and cowards" thrown in for good measure.

How anyone can offer such unadulterated nonsense as a plausible scenario for an inside job and still possess the requisite skills to operate a computer keyboard is beyond me.

[johnny karate]

And it should be noted that JihadJane is the proud owner of an astounding case of cognitive dissonance:

Without controlled demolitions (fine by me):

...

With demolitions: (also fine by me)

Reminds me of the scene in Rainman where a doctor asks Raymond the cost of various items, including a candy bar and an automobile, only to be told each time: "About a hundred dollars".

[tsig]

Can anyone decipher this post? My Crazy-to-English translator is on the fritz.


i think he means that someone somewhere disagrees with him.

[Childlike Empress]

You are still missing the many hundreds if not thousands of other people who would HAVE to be involved (even in cells).


Am I? How so?

[Childlike Empress]

Yeah, that's the same ridiculous thing Childlike Empress foolishly tried to pass off as as some kind of legitimate "inside job" scenario. The two of you seem to share a willingness to overlook its lack of detail or support by real-world science and technology.

lol.

[johnny karate]

Stunning rebuttal.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Childlike Empress, do you think George Bush tried to pass of a controlled demolition as a fire induced progressive collapse in downtown Manhattan? And even if you don't, do you think it is a plausible, real-world scenario?

[TruthersLie]

Am I? How so?

This so. (http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm)

For any of the claims of an inside job, there are at least several hundred people MINIMUM required.

Now that you are making the claims, it would help if you first laid out a coherent narrative of the events of 9/11 (which no twoof ever does... why is that? Oh because you are pulling crap out of your ass).

So first off, you tell me what your theory is, and then I'll tell you how many folks would HAVE to be involved (either completely or partially).

But the list is in the hundreds (if not thousands) when you actually look at it critically.

So when you provide a narrative which explains the events, we can go over how many people would be involved in it. (not so many if LIHOP, a LOT more if MIHOP)

[funk de fino]

Truthers aren't dangerous.

Nope, they are not.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.”

Time to buy some high-powered, heavy barreled rifles.

“To support and defend the constitution, against all enemies, foreign and domestic…”

I guess it’s time to start Defending and supporting. They’ve made it impossible to appeal or change anything.

“for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction..”

Well, there has been quite alot of action from their side of the table, I think our side has been building for quite a while now. Time for a reaction? Near.

No siree, nothing to see here.

[JihadJane]

ah yes... again showing why twoofs are dangerous. Lack of critical reading comprehension skills. If you pay attention to that intellectual exercise, you will find a half dozen reasons it won't work handed to him almost immediately. And they are never countered except with a handwave of "new technology" or the "they have magic" defense.

try again.

Try again what? You asked for a citation. I gave you one. Turn off your automatic pilot, calm down and think a new thought!


In this scenero you are still in the MINIMUM of HUNDREDS of people with inside information. Yet not one has ever squealed. It is rather amazing, but when you listen to twoofs, that number of "shills" and "agents" rises rather dramatically doesn't it?

I suggest you study how covert operations work rather than blathering on about "twoofs" like a nine year old (apologies if you are nine, in which case, don't give up on your writing yet. You've got potential).


As opposed to killing more muslims in Iran for their nuclear ambitions, and the desire to create nuclear weapons?

you should know they are vastly different issues... but then again, maybe not to you.

Did you learn nothing from the last round of lying war propaganda?

Since when was desiring or creating nuclear weapons (your unproven hypothesis) a capital offense? Would you support the bombing the USA or Israel, for example?


Since I was originally answering a neonazi antisemite, I needed to be "frothing at the mouth" enough to get my point across. Apparently I did.

Faux racism? Not at all. It is called sarcasm, you should look it up.

Your careless wielding of "antisemite" as a playground insult merely serves to dilute the word's power. The same goes for your accusation of "neonazi".

Faux racism describes exactly what you are doing. Faux racism is sarcastic by definition. Do you get a thrill from writing those naughty words?



Really? Then you must not ever look at the majority of the truther ideas... I mean according to the truth movement (which you are a fringe part of) 40,000 jews stayed home on 9/11, There were dancing Israelis, a van full of israelis, a mural of a jet hitting a building, and Mossad agents picked up.

Can't forget the USS liberty, nor all of the other jew connections... I really do think you may want to check out your own movement to see all of the really antisemitic ideas bandied about. Just go to any 9/11 youtube video and don't worry, the twoof racism will show up.

You were talking about "JOOOOOOSSSS", remember, not jews.

Your dependence on seeing everything through the "movement" is very telling. Is that the limit of your boy-gang thinking? Portraying even suspicions of Israeli involvement in the attacks as "the jooooooos dunnit" shows how far beyond rational analysis into propagandistic bilge you have sunk.

[JihadJane]

And here it is, an almost perfect post that answers the OP, the reason why truthers are dangerous.

Thank you for answering with near perfection jmh423, maybe next time you post you could inject a touch more venom and rage to drive it home and get a perfect ten out of ten.

Weird idea of what constitutes danger!

[Par]

Right, so you initially gave it large about logic and now, despite much bluffing and evasion,... you’ve been caught out... Wrong ... I've never once claimed to know anything about formal logic... No, I haven't been "caught out".What a weird little salad of lies. It’s all there in black and white (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5220263&postcount=126) for everyone to see. Everyone’s [I]already seen it. Who could you be possibly hoping to fool – yourself?So what is the connection betweeen your formal logic and the logic of the OP and other "Ooh look a Killer Truther! That proves Truthers are killers" logicians?I see. You get caught blagging, then you get caught lying, and now – without as much as an acknowledgement of either – you want to forget all that and start again like nothing's happened. Well, I bet you do! In light of your seemingly effortless detachment from truth and honesty, what earthly benefit do you think I should see in continuing a normal discussion with you – let alone providing you with free logic tuition?Do whatever you like, though your moralistic stance could be interpreted a way of avoiding answering a question I have asked you several times.



So my "moralistic stance" (i.e. my aversion to unapologetic liars) could be interpreted as a way of avoiding answering questions from – and thereby avoiding legitimising and providing free logic tuition to – an unapologetic liar. Well, yes, I suppose it jolly well could!

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Your careless wielding of "antisemite" as a playground insult merely serves to dilute the word's power. The same goes for your accusation of "neonazi".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xjbqgWkEXs

Sieg Heil JJ!

[johnny karate]

Try again what? You asked for a citation. I gave you one.

You're citation was retarded. But since you weren't specifically instructed to provide a non-retarded citation, I guess you have a point.

I suggest you study how covert operations work rather than blathering on about "twoofs" like a nine year old (apologies if you are nine, in which case, don't give up on your writing yet. You've got potential).

Trutherism #24: DO UR RESERCH!!!11!


Is JREF running a contest this month to see who can make the worst argument? Seriously, I've heard five year-olds give better justifications for the existence of Santa Claus.

[funk de fino]

I suggest you study how covert operations work rather than blathering on about "twoofs" like a nine year old (apologies if you are nine, in which case, don't give up on your writing yet. You've got potential).

I suggest you have no idea what you are talking about here. You read fantasy crap from Ruppert.

[JihadJane]

So my "moralistic stance" (i.e. my aversion to unapologetic liars) could be interpreted as a way of avoiding answering questions from – and thereby avoiding legitimising and providing free logic tuition to – an unapologetic liar. Well, yes, I suppose it jolly well could!

I've asked you a simple question. I wouldn't expect to have to pay for the answer.

[johnny karate]

I've asked you a simple question. I wouldn't expect to have to pay for the answer.

You've been asked several simple questions. I wouldn't expect anyone but a dishonest fraud to want reciprocation for something they themselves refuse to do.

[TruthersLie]

Try again what? You asked for a citation. I gave you one. Turn off your automatic pilot, calm down and think a new thought!


See, when I asked for a citation, I meant to a reasonably possible scenerio, not da "magic man done it" answer. Thank you for showing a lack of critical reading comprehension. Your citation does not address the question asked. Massive fail.


I suggest you study how covert operations work rather than blathering on about "twoofs" like a nine year old (apologies if you are nine, in which case, don't give up on your writing yet. You've got potential).


Been there, done that. I have forgotten more about covert operations than you will ever know. Again and again... people talk. It happens all over the world. It happens ALL the time. I have great friends who work for interesting multi letter agencies, and every once in a while they will brag about something over a beer, or tell me they wished they didn't do something. Not enough for me to know SPECIFICALLY what it is, but enough to figure it out. Yet it is amazing that NO ONE HAS EVER come forward and said... boy I did something that doesn't make sense on 9/11. Why is that?


Did you learn nothing from the last round of lying war propaganda?

Since when was desiring or creating nuclear weapons (your unproven hypothesis) a capital offense? Would you support the bombing the USA or Israel, for example?


ROFLMAO. Yes twoofie. Iran has absolutely nothing but the interests of happily sharing nuclear power with the world on their minds. You don't allow states which have stated repeatedly that they want to "wipe" any country off the map the ability to do so.


Your careless wielding of "antisemite" as a playground insult merely serves to dilute the word's power. The same goes for your accusation of "neonazi".


careless? boylln (sp) is most definately an antisemite and a bigot. Anyone who will call him an independent journalist and rank themselves together has branded themselves an antisemite..

try again.


Faux racism describes exactly what you are doing. Faux racism is sarcastic by definition. Do you get a thrill from writing those naughty words?

Not particularly... but since it is intended to show just how stupid and silly the person I was answering is, it completes its objective.

[jmh423]

Here's what the buffoons that live on this forum 24-7 trying feverishly to hold up the laughable "official conspiracy theory" which was scripted by the Bush administration and press released minutes after the attacks, would have us all believe:

"Directed by a bearded guy from a cave in Afghanistan, nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah. Then using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew and passengers. Then, hangover or not, they manage to give the worlds most sophisticated air defence system the slip leaving their "How to Fly a Passenger Jet" guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls and score direct hits on two towers causing THREE to collapse completely." There is no end to the evil craftiness of these swarthy Islamoterrorfascist demons!! God help us all.

Makes sense to me....LOL

[Whiplash]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone did have a problem believing "that". Too bad it's a insanely dishonest and hyperbolic mis-representation of what really happened. And it's written in a manner to purposely cause that level of disbelief.

This is why people call you truthers dishonest and liars. Because you are, for the most part. You spin and twist the story to make it as unbelievable as possible, and then consider that it's actually a strong point for why 9-11 was an inside job. It's so ridiculous it's laughable. It's simple incredulity. It's not evidence of anything.

The sad thing is, there will come a day for you, as there has for most CT believers (including many on this forum, such as myself), where you will suddenly come to realize that everything you ever believed is utter tripe and nonsense. And it's a rude awakening, especially the longer that it takes you to come to that realization. I only hope that for some of you, it comes sooner rather than later. Or you'll be feeling really depressed and stupid for a long, long time.. as you contemplate the fools you made of yourselves.

[johnny karate]

Here's what the buffoons that live on this forum 24-7 trying fever would have us all believe:

"Directed by a bearded guy from a cave in Afghanistan, nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah. Using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew, And hangover or not, they manage to give the worlds most sophisticated air defence system the slip leaving their "How to Fly a Passenger Jet" guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls and score direct hits on two towers causing THREE to collapse completely."

Makes sense to me....LOL

Oh look, ill-informed personal incredulity from a Truther.

How refreshing.

If you need me, I'll be over here with the rest of the world, finding everything you say completely unconvincing.

[carlitos]

jmh423, does your high school have a straw man bowling league? Maybe you could start one.

But thanks for reminding me that some Muslims get lap dances. Really, I never would have known that, just trying to keep my head down and not make eye contact at those places.

[Unsecured Coins]

Here's what the buffoons that live on this forum 24-7 trying fever would have us all believe:

"Directed by a bearded guy from a cave in Afghanistan, nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah. Using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew, And hangover or not, they manage to give the worlds most sophisticated air defence system the slip leaving their "How to Fly a Passenger Jet" guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls and score direct hits on two towers causing THREE to collapse completely."

Makes sense to me....LOL

And here's your version.

Thousands of people are keeping quiet about their roles in the greatest false flag operation in history. The people who planted bombs are silent. The firemen who are guilty of "at least manslaughter" are silent. NORAD stood down but somehow shot down Flight 93 and the debris was planted. The person who fired the missile at the Pentagon remains silent as are the people who also planted plane debris in that building. Plane parts were strewn about NYC too, because there were no planes that hit the tower, but if there were, they were remote controlled drone holograms with no passengers inside. Hijackers? Pfft.... they didn't exist. It's unpossible for someone to hijack a plane. In all, no one died on 9/11, it was all big fraud, and thank the FSM that youtube exists, because without it, the truth movement would be even smaller than it is now.

you sicken me

[twinstead]

"Directed by a bearded guy from a cave in Afghanistan, nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah. Using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew, And hangover or not, they manage to give the worlds most sophisticated air defence system the slip leaving their "How to Fly a Passenger Jet" guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls and score direct hits on two towers causing THREE to collapse completely."



The very epitome of Straw Man. This is textbook stuff, from the racism of the first sentence to the texas sharpshooter fallacy in the last. This post is stunning in its stupidity. Stunning.

[jmh423]

"Turner Construction, who supervised the 2000 demolition of the Seattle Kingdome, participated in the post-9/11 Ground Zero clean-up and performed extensive renovations within the World Trade Center towers just prior to 9/11, was in fact performing unspecified renovation work throughout the WTC complex until the very morning of September 11, 2001. The Port Authority of NY/NJ now claims that records describing such work or other projects were destroyed on September 11, 2001."

[Unsecured Coins]

OMG Inside Jorb!!

[carlitos]

A google search (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Turner+Construction,+who+supervised+the+2000+dem olition+of+the+Seattle+Kingdome,+participated+in+t he+post-9/11+Ground+Zero+clean-up+and+performed+extensive+renovations+within+the+ World+Trade+Center+towers+just+prior+to+9/11,+was+in+fact+performing+unspecified+renovation+ work+throughout+the+WTC+complex+until+the%EF%BB%BF +very+morning+of+September+11,+2001.+The+Port+Auth ority+of+NY/NJ+now+claims+that+records+describing+such+work+or +other+projects+were+destroyed+on+September+11,+20 01.&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) of the phrase above yielded the predictable links to the comments sections of 911blogger, infowars, etc. More dots that truthers need to connect. If they aren't dangerouse, maybe they are just lazy I guess with this copy / paste argument style.

[twinstead]

"Turner Construction, who supervised the 2000 demolition of the Seattle Kingdome, participated in the post-9/11 Ground Zero clean-up and performed extensive renovations within the World Trade Center towers just prior to 9/11, was in fact performing unspecified renovation work throughout the WTC complex until the very morning of September 11, 2001. The Port Authority of NY/NJ now claims that records describing such work or other projects were destroyed on September 11, 2001."

Well. there ya go. That is rock-solid evidence of inside job. Got a link?

[carlitos]

I just shredded my receipts from 2001. Inside Jobby-Job!

ETA - I just read this original 'story' at 911blogger. I want my 5 minutes back.

[johnny karate]

"Turner Construction, who supervised the 2000 demolition of the Seattle Kingdome, participated in the post-9/11 Ground Zero clean-up and performed extensive renovations within the World Trade Center towers just prior to 9/11, was in fact performing unspecified renovation work throughout the WTC complex until the very morning of September 11, 2001. The Port Authority of NY/NJ now claims that records describing such work or other projects were destroyed on September 11, 2001."

I see someone has been rooting through the dumpster of debunked Truther nonsense.

Here's the post I used to annihilate your crony RedIbis when he made this same moronic claim six months ago (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4641963&postcount=2590). I checked the expiration date, and it turns out it's still moronic.

Back into the dumpster you go.

[GlennB]

Here's what the buffoons that live on this forum 24-7 trying feverishly to hold up the laughable "official conspiracy theory" which was scripted by the Bush administration and press released minutes after the attacks, would have us all believe:

"Directed by a bearded guy from a cave in Afghanistan, nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah. Then using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew and passengers. Then, hangover or not, they manage to give the worlds most sophisticated air defence system the slip leaving their "How to Fly a Passenger Jet" guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls and score direct hits on two towers causing THREE to collapse completely." There is no end to the evil craftiness of these swarthy Islamoterrorfascist demons!! God help us all.

Makes sense to me....LOL

Yes, but that's because you're a total wanker.

[funk de fino]

Here's what the buffoons that live on this forum 24-7 trying feverishly to hold up the laughable "official conspiracy theory" which was scripted by the Bush administration and press released minutes after the attacks, would have us all believe:

"Directed by a bearded guy from a cave in Afghanistan, nineteen hard-drinking, coke-snorting, devout Muslims enjoy lap dances before their mission to meet Allah. Then using nothing more than craft knifes, they overpower cabin crew and passengers. Then, hangover or not, they manage to give the worlds most sophisticated air defence system the slip leaving their "How to Fly a Passenger Jet" guide in the car at the airport, they master the controls and score direct hits on two towers causing THREE to collapse completely." There is no end to the evil craftiness of these swarthy Islamoterrorfascist demons!! God help us all.

Makes sense to me....LOL

You should stop telling lies, its not nice.

[jmh423]

From a recent article by D.R. Griffin:

Were bin Laden and al-Qaeda Capable of Orchestrating the Attacks?

"For prosecutors to prove that defendants committed a crime, they must show that they had the ability (as well as the motive and opportunity) to do so. But several political and military leaders from other countries have stated that bin Laden and al-Qaeda simply could not have carried out the attacks. General Leonid Ivashov, who in 2001 was the chief of staff for the Russian armed forces, wrote:

Only secret services and their current chiefs—or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations—have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude. . . . . Osama bin Laden and “Al Qaeda” cannot be the organizers nor the performers of the September 11 attacks. They do not have the necessary organization, resources or leaders.


Mohamed Hassanein Heikal, the former foreign minister of Egypt, wrote:

Bin Laden does not have the capabilities for an operation of this magnitude. When I hear Bush talking about al-Qaida as if it was Nazi Germany or the communist party of the Soviet Union, I laugh because I know what is there.


Similar statements have been made by Andreas von Bülow, the former state secretary of West Germany’s ministry of defense, by General Mirza Aslam Beg, former chief of staff of Pakistan’s army, and even General Musharraf, the president of Pakistan until recently.

This same point was also made by veteran CIA agent Milt Bearden. Speaking disparagingly of “the myth of Osama bin Laden” on CBS News the day after 9/11, Bearden said: “I was there [in Afghanistan] at the same time bin Laden was there. He was not the great warrior.” With regard to the widespread view that bin Laden was behind the attacks, he said: “This was a tremendously sophisticated operation against the United States—more sophisticated than anybody would have ascribed to Osama bin Laden.” Pointing out that a group capable of such a sophisticated attack would have had a way to cover their tracks, he added: “This group who was responsible for that, if they didn’t have an Osama bin Laden out there, they’d invent one, because he’s a terrific diversion.”
__________________________________________________ _____________________

Now I realize that Dr. Griffin and those he cites in his essay are not of the same caliber as the advanced senior debunkers who inhabit this thread. Several of our JREF residents here have probably memorized the Davin Colburn-Ben Chertoff golden edition "debunking kit for professionals"..Some even claim to live in actual "Muslim Countries" if you can believe that and actually watch Al Jezzera every day. Pretty dog gone strong credentials I must admit!!

That said, I think that some consideration should also be given to people with high level international intel experience or those who have written 35 books and probably read 1000s more. I'm just sayin'...

[carlitos]

A google search (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Turner+Construction,+who+supervised+the+2000+dem olition+of+the+Seattle+Kingdome,+participated+in+t he+post-9/11+Ground+Zero+clean-up+and+performed+extensive+renovations+within+the+ World+Trade+Center+towers+just+prior+to+9/11,+was+in+fact+performing+unspecified+renovation+ work+throughout+the+WTC+complex+until+the%EF%BB%BF +very+morning+of+September+11,+2001.+The+Port+Auth ority+of+NY/NJ+now+claims+that+records+describing+such+work+or +other+projects+were+destroyed+on+September+11,+20 01.&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) of the phrase above yielded the predictable links to the comments sections of 911blogger, infowars, etc. More dots that truthers need to connect. If they aren't dangerouse, maybe they are just lazy I guess with this copy / paste argument style.

From a recent article by D.R. Griffin:
:spam1 :spam1 :spam1

Fish, barrel, etc.

[johnny karate]

Surprisingly, I'm finding jmh423's derail spamming to be somewhat on topic, if in a roundabout way.

While I don't think most Truthers offer any kind of physical threat, there is still the concern of having people walking around with such cognitive dissonance. It makes you wonder how these people function in everday life, and it becomes particularly frightening when you consider the possibilty that some of them might be in positions of authority. By way of analogy, I don't think Creationists as a group are necessarily dangerous, but I certainly shudder to think of any of them in a position to influence children.

And it is this distorted mindset that jmh423 is perfectly exemplifying with his behavior in this thread.

[jmh423]

Fish, barrel, etc.

That was an excellent debunk sir!! You serve your cause well.

However my point was that it seems that many of your ilk. (Official Conspiracy Believers) tend to accuse anyone who doubts the official 911 story as uneducated know nothing kooks.

I find it more believable when people such as 30yr CIA vets like Ray McGovern, or Decorated Combat Vets Like Bob Bowman and dozens of other highly respected international experts agree that the whole Osama and the 19Arabs story does not seem realistic, and that we are being lied to by those who are elected and paid to represent us. Coming from such outstanding individuals it has more impact that all of you faceless nameless "experts" with absolutely no proof of any credentials. Thanks for your continued efforts.

[johnny karate]

That was an excellent debunk sir!! You serve your cause well.

Interesting that you ignored the extreme debunking your previous claim suffered. It's almost as if you're a rabid ideologue who will at all costs ignore anything that contradicts your predetermined world-view.

[jmh423]

Surprisingly, I'm finding jmh423's derail spamming to be somewhat on topic, if in a roundabout way.

While I don't think most Truthers offer any kind of physical threat, there is still the concern of having people walking around with such cognitive dissonance. It makes you wonder how these people function in everday life, and it becomes particularly frightening when you consider the possibilty that some of them might be in positions of authority. By way of analogy, I don't think Creationists as a group are necessarily dangerous, but I certainly shudder to think of any of them in a position to influence children.

And it is this distorted mindset that jmh423 is perfectly exemplifying with his behavior in this thread.


Thank you sir for your timely response. I have a couple questions.

1) Do you also believe that Dr Griffin and those who were quoted in the excerpt I posted show signs of cognitive dissonence or were exemplifying a distorted mindset when they made their seemingly reasonable assertions? And if so what would you attribute this to when coming from seemingly credible and impressive people.

2)What if any, qualifications do you have that would make your observations and assertions regarding the 911 attacks more credible than theirs? And ergo could you be suffering from cognitive dissonence resulting in a distorted mindset?.....

Thanks

[twinstead]

That was an excellent debunk sir!! You serve your cause well.

However my point was that it seems that many of your ilk. (Official Conspiracy Believers) tend to accuse anyone who doubts the official 911 story as uneducated know nothing kooks.

I find it more believable when people such as 30yr CIA vets like Ray McGovern, or Decorated Combat Vets Like Bob Bowman and dozens of other highly respected international experts agree that the whole Osama and the 19Arabs story does not seem realistic, and that we are being lied to by those who are elected and paid to represent us. Coming from such outstanding individuals it has more impact that all of you faceless nameless "experts" with absolutely no proof of any credentials. Thanks for your continued efforts.

The evidence to support the "Official story" is huge and to any rational person very convincing. Claim it's faked, if you have the guts to stand up to that kind of scrutiny, but you can't claim it doesn't exist. I don't find your protests any more than simple arguments from incredulity.

Do you think that all experts from around the world who don't find any substantial fault with the "official story" are nameless with no credentials? If it's a count of "highly respected international experts" I'm afraid you lose.

[carlitos]

Surprisingly, I'm finding jmh423's derail spamming to be somewhat on topic, if in a roundabout way.

While I don't think most Truthers offer any kind of physical threat, there is still the concern of having people walking around with such cognitive dissonance. It makes you wonder how these people function in everday life, and it becomes particularly frightening when you consider the possibilty that some of them might be in positions of authority. By way of analogy, I don't think Creationists as a group are necessarily dangerous, but I certainly shudder to think of any of them in a position to influence children.

And it is this distorted mindset that jmh423 is perfectly exemplifying with his behavior in this thread.
I agree. I was posting in the blog comments on the BBC conspiracy page, and several times per day an article would get posted as "evidence" that "proves" inside job. For example:

A recruitment ad from 2001 that contained both the words "thermitics" and "nano" (but not used together) for a lab in New Mexico "proves" that there was nanothermite in WTC 1 and 2.
An army article on how to destroy vertical structures with explosives, which doesn't contain the words "vertical beam" but rather how to destroy horizontal beams "proves" that thermite can cut sideways.
This Turner construction thing. You should see the massive leaps of logic - the dot-connecting goes to the mayor of Dallas and of course GW Bush.


1) Do you also believe that Dr Griffin and those who were quoted in the excerpt I posted show signs of cognitive dissonence or were exemplifying a distorted mindset when they made their seemingly reasonable assertions? And if so what would you attribute this to when coming from seemingly credible and impressive people.
See, this is where you go off the reservation here. DRG doesn't seem reasonable or credible to us.

1 - Read this - http://911guide.googlepages.com/ryanmackey
2 - Come back and defend Griffin

[Unsecured Coins]

hey, I'm a decorated combat vet too... that means everything I say should be taken seriously and with merit, JUST LIKE Bob Bowman.

[jmh423]

Interesting that you ignored the extreme debunking your previous claim suffered. It's almost as if you're a rabid ideologue who will at all costs ignore anything that contradicts your predetermined world-view.

Extreme debunking....that's rich...LOL....I hadn't noticed...

Thanks for the laughs champ!! Laughter really is the best medicine. I do find it encouraging that finally, after centuries of conspiratorial behavior by the elites of the world aimed against the general population that it has suddenly become neccessary to have a well organized full time citizen debunking corp to dispel these silly myths...You guys are a real hoot!! Thanks again...Stand by your keyboards men!!

[jmh423]

hey, I'm a decorated combat vet too... that means everything I say should be taken seriously and with merit, JUST LIKE Bob Bowman.

I don't see your name and website adress anywhere on this thread. Bowman is real and even tells people where he lives. Do you also live an an Islamic country and watch al Jezzera faithfully? You get extra points for that here on JREF....Build up that profile champy!!

You might want to re-read your Membership Agreement, especially Rule 12: “Attack the argument, not the arguer." Having your opinion, claim or argument challenged, doubted or dismissed is not attacking the arguer.