This is the kind of stuff at RR tha worries me.

[Funkenstien]

http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=123166

basically, this posts states that this poor soul has no other choice but suicide or martydom. His "friends" online seem to do there best to disuade him, but this almost made me want to call the police:

Ordinarily suicide is certainly wrong and against God's will but I don't think you go to hell for commiting it. If you have faith in Jesus when you die then you go to be with Jesus, suicide or not, simple as that.

OK, so this sets the stage, (along with many other very chilling posts) that it's OK to commit suicide if you believe in Jesus. You listen to the threads, and so many people are depressed, anxious for The Second Coming, whats to stop a mass suicide? Whose to say that someone on the thread will be convincing enough to make all these people beleive that the Rapture will only happen if they make it happen?

I get impatient if there's traffic on the way to work. I can only imagine what it must be like waiting for the end of the world. I was never this bad, even at my worse. Somehow, somewhere, somethings gotta give, and I shudder to think of the results. We've already had Mountain Home, Waco, the Branch Davidians, Jim Jones (Kool-Aid anyone?) and countless COUNTLESS others.

Any ideas folks? Where's it gonna end?

[Yahweh]

The Rapture Nuts are already one big happy End of the World Cult...

This "kill yourself and see the Lord" mentality is too much...

I think the safest thing that can be done is to shut down the RaptureReady messageboards. If there is anyone with more web knowledge than me, I'd like to know if its legal to harbor material that encourages ritualized suicide in this way. I wouldnt be happy with a single damn one of them if they decided it was time to die (or even worse, tried to organize a mass suicide).

These Rapture Nuts shouldnt be happy with theirselves...

(The worst part is the way the Rapture Nuts encourage one another...)

[sparklecat]

To be fair, I would very much doubt that the majority of posters there would encourage, support, or commit suicide...

Not that there aren't a few that would, of course.

[the_ignored]

Check this (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1400472#post1400472) out!

There's one post in that thread that's rather scary, see if you can spot it! (Hint: it's one that got words of enouragement from some others!)

[frisian]

Originally posted by sparklecat
To be fair, I would very much doubt that the majority of posters there would encourage, support, or commit suicide...

Not that there aren't a few that would, of course.

Not directly anyhow. :p

[Funkenstien]

I think the safest thing that can be done is to shut down the RaptureReady messageboards. If there is anyone with more web knowledge than me, I'd like to know if its legal to harbor material that encourages ritualized suicide in this way. I wouldnt be happy with a single damn one of them if they decided it was time to die (or even worse, tried to organize a mass suicide).

There is an FBI project called Project Megiddo that did some research into end of the world cults. I bet they are aware of the forums. Whether or not anything legally can be done is a different matter.

Yahweh, the continous use of the phrase "Rapture Nuts" makes me think of you calmly talking to one of these people, and trying your best to use the phrase in every response you give, just to watch the veins rise on there holy than thou heads.:D

[frisian]

j/k sparklecat.

Yeah there are a percentage of wackjobs at every board.

:p

Wouldn't call that the majority.


Easy to pick on one thing and stereotype a minority post.

[Keziah Mason]

Even among the non-suicidal majority over there, I don't think I've ever seen a more depressed and unhappy group of people anywhere else.


(The worst part is the way the Rapture Nuts encourage one another...)

What really gets me are the women with abusive husbands who are encouraged to stick with him and pray harder. Oh yeah, that will really help :rolleyes:

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Funkenstien
Yahweh, the continous use of the phrase "Rapture Nuts" makes me think of you calmly talking to one of these people, and trying your best to use the phrase in every response you give, just to watch the veins rise on there holy than thou heads.:D
I have a deliberate way of writing, and a lot of built of negativity...

Usually, I'd call them Rapture Folk, but when reading and re-reading that particular quote you cited... I think being mildly un-PC might be warranted by just a smidgen...

[frisian]

Originally posted by Keziah Mason
Even among the non-suicidal majority over there, I don't think I've ever seen a more depressed and unhappy group of people anywhere else.


What really gets me are the women with abusive husbands who are encouraged to stick with him and pray harder. Oh yeah, that will really help :rolleyes:

Yeah, that is quite bothersome to me as well.

[c4ts]

They're a disturbing lot alright. I blame the ideas imposed upon them by organized religion. Believe in Jesus and anything you do is OK, especially anything we tell you to do. If you don't like your life with us, adopt our opinions and pray instead of doing something about it.

[VicDaring]

*&%#@ loons.

[Filippo Lippi]

Never confused?

aol is the homosexual's ISP of choice. If you check out their members created chatrooms you will see such things as m4mny, m4m minneapolis etc. m4m=male for male. These chatrooms are for random one night stands. its actually sickening, and there are scores of them, and they are usually filled.

"AOL Gay Friendly" (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=123572)

[LFTKBS]

Okay, I don't know if a) what I'm about to say is a rebukable offense or what, or b) if anyone agrees with me, but I'm having a real hard time caring about these lunatics.

There's apparently a set of people who simply cannot be reasoned with. RR members are these people. The sooner they skeddadle on out of here and into Jesus's arms, the better.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Everytime I go to the store and the clerk or someone else in the store says 'happy holidays' to me I always answer back 'Merry Christmas', and I won't be quiet about it either. Sometimes I get a smile back and sometimes a frown.
I'm going to start doing this, too, only I'm going to say "Merry Christmas, you damn heathen!"

~~ Paul

[El Greco]

I went once to RR to read some posts thinking that it would be fun but it is very depressing. When it's not insane and sick, that is.

[frisian]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

I'm going to start doing this, too, only I'm going to say "Merry Christmas, you damn heathen!"

~~ Paul

Heh.

I like that, and I will attribute you as being the "creator" of such.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by El Greco
I went once to RR to read some posts thinking that it would be fun but it is very depressing. When it's not insane and sick, that is.

If you guys dont think it is true,then why are you guys worried then or is it maybe some of what we are saying you believe is the truth.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


If you guys don't think it is true,then why are you guys worried then or is it maybe some of what we are saying you believe is the truth.

Let me put it this way. I am going to assume that you do not share any of the beliefs of the "Heavens Gate" cultists. If a few years ago, before their suicide, you caught an inkling of what they were planning, wouldn't you be worried? And if so, would that mean that you believe what they believe?

I find the argument that "All of you atheists really do believe in God but just won't admit it", to be the most sorry, pathetic argument around.

[EvolveNow]

Originally posted by Yahweh

This "kill yourself and see the Lord" mentality is too much...
... I wouldnt be happy with a single damn one of them if they decided it was time to die (or even worse, tried to organize a mass suicide).

(The worst part is the way the Rapture Nuts encourage one another...)

three simple words...

"cull the herd"

M

[Funkenstien]

If you guys don't think it is true,then why are you guys worried then or is it maybe some of what we are saying you believe is the truth.



we are worried that thousands of young lives are going to be slaughtered because someone said it's ok to die if you want to be with Jesus. Read the post. He says, if you believe in Jesus and you commit suicide, thats OK. Hello? Don't you see the problem there?

[Samus]

Fourth post down in this thread

http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=122236

emerald: I am so lonely. All I ever wanted was for someone to love me. Ah, but Jesus loves you. I wonder how many people get duped into being true believers because they want so badly to believe in something?

[sparklecat]

Originally posted by Commander Cool
I wonder how many people get duped into being true believers because they want so badly to believe in something?

A good bit I think... I got into a discussion with another poster there as to whether it was ok to believe for not very good reasons, so long as the result was ok, actually...


As to worrying about any sort of mass suicide, you'd do better to consider RR an ally rather than an enemy here. As I said previously, this is not a route that the majority of posters would take, nor would the moderators be anything but against it.

[Funkenstien]

As to worrying about any sort of mass suicide, you'd do better to consider RR an ally rather than an enemy here. As I said previously, this is not a route that the majority of posters would take, nor would the moderators be anything but against it

I appreciate your optimism, but there is a underlying tone to all of it. Thousands of people waiting for a grand event. It never comes. They get sick of waiting, and are so depressed after months and months of waiting, seeing the "signs" and nothing even remotley coming to pass.

All it's going to take is a charismatic "leader" to gather some of them up, convince them that Satan has already taken power and the only way to battle him is in heaven, or some other nonesense like that, and there you have it.


There was a post on the RR website about "positive things Todd's ministry had done" awhile back. One of them was about how they helped one of they stopped one of there own members from commiting suicide over End Times Prophecies. You can't be the problem and the solution. You can't tell someone to kill themselves just to take part in saving them. It doesn't work that way.

[sparklecat]

I think that was why the mods made the rule against date setting, actually- to stave off disappointment on the part of those who were taken in.

And I'll say this for them- charismatic leader or no, if its not Biblical, they won't go for it.

Though that, as well, naturally doesn't apply to all :D I'm talking majorities here.


Optimism? Perhaps. But more that I know many of them on a personal level and that, while they might prefer to be in the next life, they wouldn't actually take action to make it so.

[Funkenstien]

And I'll say this for them- charismatic leader or no, if its not Biblical, they won't go for it.

True. I'm not saying there gonna hop a comet to meet the mother ship. What if someone could cite Scripture that condones mass suicide? They've seem to already made it OK for you to die for Christ .

[sparklecat]

Hmm. Good question. If there were such a Scripture, which I don't believe there is, and if this leader could convince them that his interpretation of it was correct, which I highly doubt- then it would depend upon the individual ;)

Actually, I think it quite unlikely, bordering on impossible, that any kind of mass suicide amongst the evangelicals would ever happen.


Off-topic, but I always liked the saying that went something like, "Its a lot harder to live for Christ than die for him"...

[Kilted_Canuck]

Originally posted by El Greco
I went once to RR to read some posts thinking that it would be fun but it is very depressing. When it's not insane and sick, that is.


Yeah, sometimes its funny, sometimes it just makes you lose all hope in humanity...

[Kilted_Canuck]

From the site:
Originally posted by ylf1999
how did you learn this? can you provide this statement with evidence from an article I can read?

sorry to sound skeptical. I dont mean to be. I just want to get the facts straight before i do anything like boycott time warner

Oh, you know what a sin it is to be skeptical :rolleyes:

[frisian]

Originally posted by Kilted_Canuck
From the site:
Originally posted by ylf1999
how did you learn this? can you provide this statement with evidence from an article I can read?

sorry to sound skeptical. I dont mean to be. I just want to get the facts straight before i do anything like boycott time warner

Oh, you know what a sin it is to be skeptical :rolleyes:
hmmm, they don't seem to mind me being skeptical frequently over at good ole' RR.

:p

[sparklecat]

They don't? Really? Must have missed that...

[frisian]

Originally posted by sparklecat
They don't? Really? Must have missed that...

ello fellow gadfly.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by sparklecat
Hmm. Good question. If there were such a Scripture, which I don't believe there is, and if this leader could convince them that his interpretation of it was correct, which I highly doubt- then it would depend upon the individual ;)

Actually, I think it quite unlikely, bordering on impossible, that any kind of mass suicide amongst the evangelicals would ever happen.


Off-topic, but I always liked the saying that went something like, "Its a lot harder to live for Christ than die for him"...
Well, I do believe you are correct when you say there is not too much worry about mass suicides, however...

Unless there is something wrong with my pattern of thinking, would anyone be in the right place to actually try to talk to these Rapture Folk (I'm trying to be a bit more PC...)?

These kids are absolutely obsessed. When there obsession begins to manipulate their lives, it becomes an elevated form of paranoia, it effectively becomes a personality disorder.

To quote Brown from another thread:
Intentionally holding on to a false view of reality is immoral. There are plenty of great thinkers who have argued that there is intrinsic evil in false beliefs. Regardless of whether such beliefs result in comfort or a sense of well-being, it is far more important and ethical for a person to have an understanding of reality.

...

Let's leave aside the question of religion for a moment. There are many other beliefs that are widely held yet that are known to be false. If a person persists in clinging to a false view of reality, knowing or having good reason to know of its falsity, then that person is lying to himself. There is no shortage of authority that lying to oneself is morally repugant. Shakespeare may have summed it up best with his pithy "to thine own self be true," but he was neither the first nor the last to express the sentiment. This is hardly a weak or losing point.

Turning back to the question of religion now, it is not true as a general matter that all religions are known to be false (although some are). As a general matter, assering the moral superiority of being true to oneself does not necessarily degrade religion. Moreover, many religions (including some flavors of Christianity) agree that it is extremely important to be honest to oneself. Even if one has a great deal "invested" in a belief, one should not persist in the false belief merely to "protect the investment."

...

Not all religions hold "false views of reality." Deism, for example, is a religion rooted in reality. Even some versions of Christianity insist upon an honest recognition of the real world. One Christian writer, for example, once said (and I'm paraphrasing) that we can be certain that any interpretation of Scripture that is inconsistent with science is a wrong interpretation. Other Christian writers adamantly disagree with this sentiment, of course; but it would not be fair to say that all Christians are divorced from reality merely because some are.

I'm not much impressed with the way that some of the Rapture Folk condemn questioning faith.

People like Billiefan, I dont understand people like him. He doesnt understand why a person my question their faith. He doesnt seem to understand that skepticism is healthy. Why he rejects all other equally valid religions and Scriptures is absolutely beyond me, what makes Christian Mythology more special and more true than Greek Mythology cant be comprehended.

If someone believes something which is effectively false, should I worry about them? Would I be obligated to help them?

(Being of mostly altruistic tendencies, I would yes.)

[frisian]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Well, I do believe you are correct when you say there is not too much worry about mass suicides, however...

Unless there is something wrong with my pattern of thinking, would anyone be in the right place to actually try to talk to these Rapture Folk (I'm trying to be a bit more PC...)?

These kids are absolutely obsessed. When there obsession begins to manipulate their lives, it becomes an elevated form of paranoia, it effectively becomes a personality disorder.

To quote Brown from another thread:


I'm not much impressed with the way that some of the Rapture Folk condemn questioning faith.

People like Billiefan, I dont understand people like him. He doesnt understand why a person my question their faith. He doesnt seem to understand that skepticism is healthy. Why he rejects all other equally valid religions and Scriptures is absolutely beyond me, what makes Christian Mythology more special and more true than Greek Mythology cant be comprehended.

If someone believes something which is effectively false, should I worry about them? Would I be obligated to help them?

(Being of mostly altruistic tendencies, I would yes.)


Well f it I speak for others all the time. I would guess billiefan rejects other religions due a subjective perspective.

Myself and Sparklecat have been shunned to some extent because as Christians we have also been skeptical of our OWN beliefs, which we find healthy. I have been reminded that even within Christianity fundamentalists don't have truth by the neck... they in fact are an extreme "form" and fail to critically examine and rely TOO much on faith and forget that reason might be important as well or concurrently?

[sparklecat]

I agree with you. Over at RR, I even have a signature quote along those lines.

“If a man, holding a belief which he was taught in childhood or persuaded of afterwards, keeps down and pushes away any doubts which arise about it in his mind, purposely avoids the reading of books and the company of men that call in question or discuss it, and regards as impious those questions which cannot easily be asked without disturbing it-the life of that man is on long sin against mankind… Inquiry into the evidence of a doctrine is not to be made once for all, and then taken as finally settled. It is never lawful to stifle a doubt; for either it can be honestly answered by means of the inquiry already made, or else it proves that the inquiry was not complete.”
- W.K. Clifford, The Ethics of Belief


The condemnation of questioning is actually something that has puzzled me for awhile, and that I've been trying to figure out. Eventually, I came to see that, should God and Christianity be true, they can both surely stand up to any questions thrown at them. But I really think that questioning of one's faith is something intensely personal, and not something you or I or anyone else can do for others.

As to being in the right place, I'm not sure who can be. Anything said by someone suspected to have an ulterior motive is looked upon with suspicion as being a ploy of Satan, and the believer armors their own mind against whatever could come of that. When you start off facing an attitude of distrust and a questioning of your motives, there's really not a whole lot you can do.

But as others have said to me... do it for the lurkers. Someone just might listen and, if nothing else, be brought to think about why they believe what they do, and if their reason for doing so is good enough. Thus far, my answer to that has been yes, but the important thing is in the examining of beliefs... and that really is a personal journey.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by frisian
Well f it I speak for others all the time. I would guess billiefan rejects other religions due a subjective perspective.

It was Philosopher G.E. Moore who made this point very clear:

There are just some people who's beliefs are not derived from the evidence around them, instead those beliefs are governed by their inner convictions.


In my own cynical eyes, it roughly translates into "Some people are just willfully ignorant"...

[sparklecat]

Wilfully ignorant, perhaps... but some aren't capable of facing up to the questioning of their beliefs and where that might lead because they need it to be true.

Its a tough question... allow them to believe upon insufficient evidence or shatter their world? While I'm all for the truth winning out, there are some people that I couldn't stand to argue with because I know what some of the possible consequences might be.

[frisian]

Originally posted by sparklecat
Wilfully ignorant, perhaps... but some aren't capable of facing up to the questioning of their beliefs and where that might lead because they need it to be true.

Its a tough question... allow them to believe upon insufficient evidence or shatter their world? While I'm all for the truth winning out, there are some people that I couldn't stand to argue with because I know what some of the possible consequences might be.

Agreed... I am for some reason sensitive to that "type" of person.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by sparklecat
Its a tough question... allow them to believe upon insufficient evidence or shatter their world? While I'm all for the truth winning out, there are some people that I couldn't stand to argue with because I know what some of the possible consequences might be.
Personally, the hardest question I've ever had to ask myself as an Evil Atheist is simply this:

Who am I to want to tear down any one person's belief, regardless of how lost with reality it may be, if it doesnt hurt anyone?

And then I remember Brown's quote:
"Regardless of whether such beliefs result in comfort or a sense of well-being, it is far more important and ethical for a person to have an understanding of reality."

I know for a fact that there are some schizophrenics who are very happy believing the things their mind has cooked up. (Its not always a life-destroying terrible imparement as often as people think...)

The consequences of a person leaving behind faith, I dont think I've ever seen many more positive things said about anything than when a person leaves behind faith (of course, the same might be said about finding faith...). I know Ruby and Roadtoad for certain have described something along the lines of "escape from the grip of belief". Those consequences sound overwhelmingly positive to me. It is only disappointed when a person realizes how they've been treating theirself (whether it be self-denial, or perhaps they are disgusted by the way they treated others of different beliefs) throughout the time they were "believers". And like Funkenstein described in his first thread here, I'm sure the most definite consequence of questioning one's faith is the relief of lifting the veil of anxiety off one's shoulders.

Yes, you have it exactly right when you question one's faith is extremely personal. However, I think that if I can do in a way that isnt by force or against the will of another, it wouldnt be wrong for me to consider planting the seeds of doubt.

[sparklecat]

I've said to Christians that they shouldn't despair when it looks like their effort has been wasted... often a person will remember something said later on and it'll have an impact upon their decision. The same goes for you- seeds planted eventually turn up fruit.

But whose decision is it whether it is more ethical to hold a belief for their own well-being? I suppose in a sense that we are all our brother's keepers... and it doesn't hurt to give them information, even if they block it out and it lies latent... until they're able to face up to the fact that they might be wrong and investigate their beliefs, they won't look at it anyway.

But, as you said, if its not forced (leading to a measure of bitterness I'd think), its really quite a good thing. No harm can come from free and rational thinking.


Just some personal thoughts and ramblings there I suppose :)

[Keziah Mason]

Unless there is something wrong with my pattern of thinking, would anyone be in the right place to actually try to talk to these Rapture Folk (I'm trying to be a bit more PC...)?

These kids are absolutely obsessed.


Well, the thing is is that most of them are not kids.

With a kid there is always hope that they will either outgrow beliefs held as a child or that they are going through a fad or youthful rebellion. A kid has not fully matured mentally. There is hope in introducing a skeptical mindset to a kid.

It is a rare adult, however, who will completely change his or her basic viewpoint of the world and how things should be. I do not share your optimism concerning the outcome of talking to the Rapture Folk. I think it would take some sort of horrible personal tragedy to most of these folks questioning the existance of their god. Any budding atheists in that crowd would not likely gotten that way from adopting a skeptical world view.


Its a tough question... allow them to believe upon insufficient evidence or shatter their world?

It's a difficult question. I'm basically inclined to let people do and believe any fool thing they wish. However, the problem is that too often what people do and believe have a direct impact on myself and others. I do not go out just to shatter their world, I go out to shatter their world so they quit voting and making policies based on their beliefs.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Keziah Mason
Well, the thing is is that most of them are not kids.
I dont call them "kids" because because I think they're young, its a Southern dialect, just the way I talk...

I think the word "youngins" (which I use quite frequently) would imply "adolescents" a little more clearly in my crazy dialect...

Southern Hospitality, ya hear...

[Keziah Mason]

Southern Hospitality, ya hear...

Ahhh - you're from a completely different world then! :)

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Fillipo Lippi
Never confused?



"AOL Gay Friendly" (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=123572)

Teh ph00lz d0n't sp33k 1337.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Yahweh
The Rapture Nuts are already one big happy End of the World Cult...

This "kill yourself and see the Lord" mentality is too much...

I think the safest thing that can be done is to shut down the RaptureReady messageboards. If there is anyone with more web knowledge than me, I'd like to know if its legal to harbor material that encourages ritualized suicide in this way. I wouldnt be happy with a single damn one of them if they decided it was time to die (or even worse, tried to organize a mass suicide).

These Rapture Nuts shouldnt be happy with theirselves...

(The worst part is the way the Rapture Nuts encourage one another...)

So since the RR believes in Bible Prophecy and believes Jesus Christ is the only way into Heaven,they are considered a cult then.


Also,what is wrong with encouraging one another,or has our society become so evil that being kind to others is considered offensive

[Funkenstien]

So since the RR believes in Bible Prophecy and believes Jesus Christ is the only way into Heaven,they are considered a cult then.

Believing in Jesus is not a cult like trait. Bible Prophecy fanatics turn more people away from Christianity than draw to it. You can argue that The Left Behind Series has drawn millions of people to Jesus, but what happens ten, twenty years from now when no rapture has taken place, no antichrist has taken power? History has shown, and will continue to show that Christians, Muslims, any religion needs to stop waiting around for their belief to be justified and start living there lives, tolerant of other people.

Check the definition of cult in the dictionary, Billiefan. Better yet, here are some names for you to do a search on the internet for: David Koresh, Jim Ellison, Jim Jones. All believed in literal translations of Revelation, and they certainly were wrong. the Millerites, Seven Day Advents, JWs, the list goes on.


Also,what is wrong with encouraging one another,or has our society become so evil that being kind to others is considered offensive]

You aren't being kind to others when you tell them to hate muslims, gays, and anything else that doesn't fit with your version of Chrisitanity. You are spreading more hate. If you took the time to actually read the posts i cited, you would learn that there are some people on your beloved RR boards that seem to encourage suicide if it's in Christ's name. How is that a good thing?

On a more personal note, Billiefan, if you are going to be in any way useful to this forum, you need to stop using strawmen to prove your point. In other words, don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Funkenstien


Believing in Jesus is not a cult like trait. Bible Prophecy fanatics turn more people away from Christianity than draw to it. You can argue that The Left Behind Series has drawn millions of people to Jesus, but what happens ten, twenty years from now when no rapture has taken place, no antichrist has taken power? History has shown, and will continue to show that Christians, Muslims, any religion needs to stop waiting around for their belief to be justified and start living there lives, tolerant of other people.

Check the definition of cult in the dictionary, Billiefan. Better yet, here are some names for you to do a search on the internet for: David Koresh, Jim Ellison, Jim Jones. All believed in literal translations of Revelation, and they certainly were wrong. the Millerites, Seven Day Advents, JWs, the list goes on.



You aren't being kind to others when you tell them to hate muslims, gays, and anything else that doesn't fit with your version of Chrisitanity. You are spreading more hate. If you took the time to actually read the posts i cited, you would learn that there are some people on your beloved RR boards that seem to encourage suicide if it's in Christ's name. How is that a good thing?

On a more personal note, Billiefan, if you are going to be in any way useful to this forum, you need to stop using strawmen to prove your point. In other words, don't bring a knife to a gunfight.


I nor no one I know who believes in Jesus Christ and studies Bible Prophecy has ever in anyway supported hate towards anyone.


Unless,you can show me where Pre tribbers have used hate to attack others,I think you may need to stop calling us bigots.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by billiefan2000



I nor no one I know who believes in Jesus Christ and studies Bible Prophecy has ever in anyway supported hate towards anyone.

I do. Adolph Hitler.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
I nor no one I know who believes in Jesus Christ and studies Bible Prophecy has ever in anyway supported hate towards anyone.

It

a) depends on what you call hate

b) what you call "believes in Jesus Christ"

c) on what you call "studies Bible Prophecy"

Unless you haven't stated that clearly, you will always findyourself in a position to draw a no true Scotsman fallacy along the lines of

a) that's not hate

b) that person doesn't really believe in Jesus Christ

c) that person doesn't really study Bible prophecy


Originally posted by billiefan2000
Unless,you can show me where Pre tribbers have used hate to attack others,I think you may need to stop calling us bigots.

Is Jack Chick a pre-tribber? What a bout that "God hates f@gs"-dude? (I really don't know about those but I would call it "using hate to attack others")

Or you just might want to read a little bit on the RR-BB.

[rustypouch]

I nor no one I know who believes in Jesus Christ and studies Bible Prophecy has ever in anyway supported hate towards anyone

How about Fred Phelps?

There's an article about him here, (http://uk.gay.com/headlines/5159) but some might consider the source biased.

From the article:

Notorious anti-gay minister Fred Phelps has proposed a monument that would mock the death of US gay teenager Matthew Shepard.

The monument, which has been suggested around the 5th anniversary of Shepard's death, would bear a picture of the 21-year-old student's face and the inscription "Matthew Shepard, Entered Hell October 12, 1998 in Defiance of God's Warning".

He seems to be a hate-filled Christian.

[Some Friggin Guy]

I have found there are many people who question their faith in christianity but are told it is "the devil tempting them away from their faith."

I have dealt with 3 or 4 of them on a personal level and I have offered to listen to any questions they have without judgement, to give them my personal views if they ask, and to never pressure them to make any decision nor toward which decision to make.

Of those 3 or 4 people, they have all taken me up on the offer and they have all seperated themselves from the church. 1 remains a christian on a personal level. The rest have adopted some from of agnosticism or atheism.

Perhaps it makes them feel more comfortable asking me knowing that, though I am a reformed christian, I don't pressure them.

My view still is that I will never give people trouble for believe what they want, but when they try to push it on me or someone else, I get angry.

[Agammamon]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ordinarily suicide is certainly wrong and against God's will but I don't think you go to hell for commiting it. If you have faith in Jesus when you die then you go to be with Jesus, suicide or not, simple as that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There's sort of a thin line between martyrdom and suicide anyway.
Is it suicide to do something that you know will get you killed, even if you aren't the one specifically ending your life? And I don't mean simply doing something stupid and dangerous like trying to see how many times you can make it across the interstate. Something like failing to recant your Catholicism in Calvinst Geneva, that sort of thing.
If so I would guess that martyrdom is a loophole in the suicide = hell equation.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by rustypouch


How about Fred Phelps?

There's an article about him here, (http://uk.gay.com/headlines/5159) but some might consider the source biased.

From the article:



He seems to be a hate-filled Christian.


Since when did Fred Phelps become a Christian,cause Bible Believing and Prophecy Believing Christians dont act like him.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
So since the RR believes in Bible Prophecy and believes Jesus Christ is the only way into Heaven,they are considered a cult then.
I dont think my opinion of whether the Rapture Folk are or are not a cult group is important in this instance, but since you asked I guess I'll take the time to answer.

No, I dont believe belief in prophecy or "one true way into Heaven" makes the Rapture Folk a cult group. I never said this, I dont believe I implied it, I think my misrepresented the context of what I said.

Many of the things the Rapture Folk do and think have classic earmarks of "cult" written all over it. For instance, try to think of how many cults harbor "One True" beliefs, how many cults believe "everyone else is persecuting us", how many appocalyptic cults been popularized in media.

I could go into much more detail if you need me to do so.

Also,what is wrong with encouraging one another,or has our society become so evil that being kind to others is considered offensive
This is a place where my opinion may be more warranted:

I believe the Rapture Folk encourage mentally unhealthy behavior.

The Rapture Folk encourage belief in things which arent true. A quote from Brown which I very much agree with is:
"Intentionally holding on to a false view of reality is immoral. There are plenty of great thinkers who have argued that there is intrinsic evil in false beliefs. Regardless of whether such beliefs result in comfort or a sense of well-being, it is far more important and ethical for a person to have an understanding of reality."

Keep in mind that from a single bible, a number of different beliefs have come about:
Geocentricism, Heliocentricism

Old Earth Creation, Young Earth creation

Biblical Creationism, Devine Design (which is not the same as Creationism)

Rapture is fantasy, Rapture is real

Pre-Trib Rapture, Post-Trib Rapture

Jesus will come again, Jesus will is gone forever

People spend eternities in Hell, Hell is temporary

Hell is a symbol, Hell is real

Satan is a symbol, Satan is real

Hell is inside the Earth, Hell is an etheral place

Hell is place of absolute torture, Torture in Hell is based on the severity of your sins

Purgatory, No Purgatory

Souls judged immediately after death, Souls judged on Judgement Day

Jesus was the son of God, Jesus was God

Flat Earth, Round Earth

Biblical Literalism, and Allegorical approaches to the bible

There may be more that I havent mentioned, but all of those are mutually exclusive of one another.


My method of judging an act of right and wrong includes at least 4 criteria: The Deontology angle and the Teleology angle, motivation, and intention. If any of those 4 are "immoral", the act is likely to be judged immoral as well.

Deontology theory argues acts ought to be judged by the means at which a certain act is achieved (i.e. Kant would argue that lying to save a life is immoral, because the means - lying - is immoral). Teleology argues that the end result of an act determines if it is morally right (i.e. Jeremy Bentham would agrue lying to save a life is morally acceptable, because the ends - saving a life - is moral).

While the Rapture Folks motivation (altruistic kindness) and means (encourage new thought) are morally acceptable, the intention (encourage belief in false things) and ends (belief in false things) are immoral. Therefore, it is perfectly justified to say "The worst part is the way the Rapture Folk encourage one another".

(Note: Its not nice to call the Rapture Folk by the name "Rapture Nuts"...)

[rustypouch]

Originally posted by billiefan2000



Since when did Fred Phelps become a Christian,cause Bible Believing and Prophecy Believing Christians dont act like him.

Let's try some simple logic here.

First off, a definition of the word christian, from www.m-w.com : 1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

From the site www.godhatesfags.com , which is run by Phelps:
Because Christ died for our sins, and we faithfully uphold His Word. Most "Christians" today are Christians by name only, and should be ashamed of themselves. They are cowardly, lukewarm, and ashamed of Christ's Word. They have substituted their own pathetic ideas for God's clear commandments.

Since Phelps professes belief in Jesus, by logic, definition, and his own admittance, that makes him a christian.

Since when does Phelps not believe in the bible?

Also from www.godhatesfags.com :

In short, we adhere to the teachings of the Bible, preach against all form of sin (e.g., fornication, adultery, sodomy), and insist that the doctrines of grace be taught publicly to all men.

It would seem to me that Phleps could claim to be more of a christian than you.

[billiefan2000]

if what the RR is saying is just paranoid ramblings,then why are you guys afraid then?

Or is it that part of you actually thinks we might be telling the truth.


Something to ponder

[sparklecat]

Nice post... just one thing I'd like to add.

Originally posted by Yahweh
While the Rapture Folks motivation (altruistic kindness) and means (encourage new thought) are morally acceptable, the intention (encourage belief in false things) and ends (belief in false things) are immoral. Therefore, it is perfectly justified to say "The worst part is the way the Rapture Folk encourage one another".

(Note: Its not nice to call the Rapture Folk by the name "Rapture Nuts"...)

I would disagree with you on the intention, because to their minds, it is encouraging belief in true things. As for the end, well... if those things are indeed true (which I'm sure they'd say), then the end is not wrong either. However, I'm not sure how much new thought is encouraged.


And I appreciate the change to "folk." :)

[DarkMagician]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
if what the RR is saying is just paranoid ramblings,then why are you guys afraid then?

Or is it that part of you actually thinks we might be telling the truth.


Something to ponder "They argue with me, because they know I'm right!" --Rush Limbaugh, "Rush Limbaugh Eats Everything"

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
if what the RR is saying is just paranoid ramblings,then why are you guys afraid then?

Or is it that part of you actually thinks we might be telling the truth.


Something to ponder
Some of the more Zealous Religious folk like to think that atheists are insecure, fearful, confused, immoral, and occasionally hateful.

Its a misunderstanding of atheism (in same way, believing black folk are naturally "just stupid" is a misunderstanding of black folk in general). Its simply not true, Billiefan.

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
if what the RR is saying is just paranoid ramblings,then why are you guys afraid then?

Or is it that part of you actually thinks we might be telling the truth.


Something to ponder

On the contrary, I, for one, did answer, you never replied. Just to refresh your memory I will repost what I said before...

Let me put it this way. I am going to assume that you do not share any of the beliefs of the "Heavens Gate" cultists. If a few years ago, before their suicide, you caught an inkling of what they were planning, wouldn't you be worried? And if so, would that mean that you believe what they believe?

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by sparklecat
Nice post... just one thing I'd like to add.

I would disagree with you on the intention, because to their minds, it is encouraging belief in true things. As for the end, well... if those things are indeed true (which I'm sure they'd say), then the end is not wrong either. However, I'm not sure how much new thought is encouraged.
More from Brown (he always says the most inciteful things):

Let's leave aside the question of religion for a moment. There are many other beliefs that are widely held yet that are known to be false. If a person persists in clinging to a false view of reality, knowing or having good reason to know of its falsity, then that person is lying to himself. There is no shortage of authority that lying to oneself is morally repugant. Shakespeare may have summed it up best with his pithy "to thine own self be true," but he was neither the first nor the last to express the sentiment. This is hardly a weak or losing point.

Turning back to the question of religion now, it is not true as a general matter that all religions are known to be false (although some are). As a general matter, assering the moral superiority of being true to oneself does not necessarily degrade religion. Moreover, many religions (including some flavors of Christianity) agree that it is extremely important to be honest to oneself. Even if one has a great deal "invested" in a belief, one should not persist in the false belief merely to "protect the investment."

...

Not all religions hold "false views of reality." Deism, for example, is a religion rooted in reality. Even some versions of Christianity insist upon an honest recognition of the real world. One Christian writer, for example, once said (and I'm paraphrasing) that we can be certain that any interpretation of Scripture that is inconsistent with science is a wrong interpretation. Other Christian writers adamantly disagree with this sentiment, of course; but it would not be fair to say that all Christians are divorced from reality merely because some are.

In the minds of Muslims, their beliefs are correct. In the minds of Native Americans, their beliefs are correct. In the minds of Pygmy tribes in Africa, their beliefs are correct. In the mind of Franko, his completely warped and insane beliefs are correct.

I could probably never pursuade you that the Earth is actually flat, regardless of how much I may be convinced of it. The evidence suggests otherwise, and I would be choosing to deny the evidence (note: In this context, I'm using the word "evidence" loosely... only because I dont want to repeat this thread (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32946)), that would be "willful ignorance" and "willfully believing false things". If my intention was to persuade you to believe the Earth was flat, then my intention would be to persuade you to believe something which is false, it doesnt matter if I acknowledge that it is false (that is the part where I should have made myself a bit clearer).

And I appreciate the change to "folk." :)
:)

[Funkenstien]

if what the RR is saying is just paranoid ramblings,then why are you guys afraid then?

I'm sorry. I missed the part when I (or any one of us) said we were afraid. Just because we don't beleive in what you think, and we are trying to explain it to you why we don't, we suddenly became fearful.

The only thing I'm afraid of is that you will teach this to future generations.

Soemthing to ponder... I got something for you to ponder Billie. If you want to glorify Christ's name, what do you think is more potent? Is it building up anticipation for an event that will never happen, or is it doing like Christ did, and housing the homeless, feeding the hungry, etc? If you spent half the time you do reading the world news for signs of Revelation, and more time actually being like Christ, then maybe you'd forget about scaring people into your version of Christainity, and focus more on the loving thy neighbor.

[Funkenstien]

By the way Yaweh, (hey that kinda ryhmes), fantastic post up a few. :D

[sparklecat]

Originally posted by Yahweh
I could probably never persuade you that the Earth is actually flat, regardless of how much I may be convinced of it. The evidence suggests otherwise, and I would be choosing to deny the evidence (note: In this context, I'm using the word "evidence" loosely... only because I dont want to repeat this thread (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32946)), that would be "willful ignorance" and "willfully believing false things". If my intention was to persuade you to believe the Earth was flat, then my intention would be to persuade you to believe something which is false, it doesnt matter if I acknowledge that it is false (that is the part where I should have made myself a bit clearer).


Well, as the quote said, certain flavors of Christianity can look at the world honestly... and I don't see a reason why believing in a Rapture would go against the evidence, or to think that it must be false. If one is a Christian who accepts those teachings as genuine...

My point being that its not necessarily false :)

[c4ts]

Paranoid ramblings can be hi-llarious.

[billiefan2000]

Originally posted by Funkenstien


I'm sorry. I missed the part when I (or any one of us) said we were afraid. Just because we don't beleive in what you think, and we are trying to explain it to you why we don't, we suddenly became fearful.

The only thing I'm afraid of is that you will teach this to future generations.

Soemthing to ponder... I got something for you to ponder Billie. If you want to glorify Christ's name, what do you think is more potent? Is it building up anticipation for an event that will never happen, or is it doing like Christ did, and housing the homeless, feeding the hungry, etc? If you spent half the time you do reading the world news for signs of Revelation, and more time actually being like Christ, then maybe you'd forget about scaring people into your version of Christainity, and focus more on the loving thy neighbor.


This has been taught for generations and who said we never are trying to be more like Christ



I mean have you ever read any of the prayer requests at:

http://rr-bb.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=13

or is it you RR bashers skip that section of our bulletin board and website




c4ts,sometimes "paranoid ramblings" turn out to be truth no one wants to believe is true

[c4ts]

Originally posted by billiefan2000


c4ts,sometimes "paranoid ramblings" turn out to be truth no one wants to believe is true
Give me one valid example.

[Funkenstien]

I mean have you ever read any of the prayer requests...

A generous thought, but one hand feeding a child does more than thousand heads bowed in prayer. (a freind of mine once said that :) )

Christ did more than just pray for the sick, he did what he could to heal them, dine with them, be with them. If you want to impress me, show some proof that you do more than pray. Take some of the time you invest preaching about the Rapture, and visit a homeless shelter. If you are ever in my neighborhood, I'll take you to the one I work at during the holidays.

[Mona]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yahweh
[B]

>>Many of the things the Rapture Folk do and think have classic earmarks of "cult" written all over it. For instance, try to think of how many cults harbor "One True" beliefs, how many cults believe "everyone else is persecuting us", how many appocalyptic cults been popularized in media.<<

The rapture movement is a religious movement, as are so-called "cults." The latter are simply new religions that significantly differ in doctrine from mainstream religions. Xianity was a cult in A.D. 60 Rome, and the usual atrocity tales arose about Xians, a phenomenon that has occurred throughtout history when new religions emerge, and in which Xians have frequently participated vis-a-vis emergent religions.

As has been noted, end times beliefs among American Xians is not new. Nor are millennarian movements confined to Xianity: end time beliefs (http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/millennium/history.html)

[BroodingSkill]

"if what the RR is saying is just paranoid ramblings,then why are you guys afraid then?"


Afraid? Nah! I would say that some, including Mods, at RR are more fearful of having their beliefs questioned, than anything else.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Funkenstien
http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=123166

basically, this posts states that this poor soul has no other choice but suicide or martydom. His "friends" online seem to do there best to disuade him, but this almost made me want to call the police:



OK, so this sets the stage, (along with many other very chilling posts) that it's OK to commit suicide if you believe in Jesus. You listen to the threads, and so many people are depressed, anxious for The Second Coming, whats to stop a mass suicide? Whose to say that someone on the thread will be convincing enough to make all these people beleive that the Rapture will only happen if they make it happen?

I get impatient if there's traffic on the way to work. I can only imagine what it must be like waiting for the end of the world. I was never this bad, even at my worse. Somehow, somewhere, somethings gotta give, and I shudder to think of the results. We've already had Mountain Home, Waco, the Branch Davidians, Jim Jones (Kool-Aid anyone?) and countless COUNTLESS others.

Any ideas folks? Where's it gonna end?

I just ran across this.

I can only say, "Holy sh**!"

I need to think about this one. This is just too damn scary. It's the John MacArthur mess all over again.

[the_ignored]

Some of them seem to just can't wait until their turn to rule (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1452195) in the "Millenial kingdom" and beyond...
On a deeper level though, we will be walking totally within the Will of God in all things (that does not mean we have no choices or options, only that we will always pick the right one. Thank God!)

As an example:

If you were assigned or granted to be an Ambassador to a specific nation, or a judge in their lands, and they came to you to settle an issue, and you pronounced your judgment, that is it. The judgment is done. You will know the Will of God in these things and be able to make the decision that God would make if it were He standing there. If they have the right to appeal, for whatever reason, and they go before the Lord and say they wish to contest your judgment, Jesus is going to look at them and say "My servant, who spoke in My Name, has passed judgment, and the judgment stands." In fact, they may even get a harsher judgment now from the Lord, because they know by who's authority we speak and make judgment!<--there's something ironic in this quote, see if you can find it!

Mind you, when it comes to the conditions of the world, there are times that I have to reluctantly agree with them (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1433028#post1433028) that some people are just irredeemabley FUBAR'ed.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Mona
The rapture movement is a religious movement, as are so-called "cults." The latter are simply new religions that significantly differ in doctrine from mainstream religions.
I hope I can say this without getting into a semantics debate...

I'll summarize information from Wikipedia - Cult (http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult):
The definition of the word "cult" applies to all religions; the usage of the word (since the 1960s) applies to a sub-set of religions and groups - those that engage in abusive or criminal behavior, and/or deny their members civil and human rights.

While the religious, philosophical, and spiritual beliefs vary widely from one cult to the next, the actions of cults show striking similarities. Many published checklists of cult behavior have appeared, and sources differ in the terminology they use and how they group the behaviors together. [1,3,5] Some common items that set abusive cults apart from other organizations include:


Milieu control – Cults seek to control members' sources of information and social interaction. They encourage members to sever communication and relationships with friends and family members.

Infallibility, or "The Sacred Science" – Cults teach that the chosen philosophy or experiential panacea forms the only possible path to salvation. Cults discourage critical and rational thinking. Persons who question or challenge what the cult offers are denied access or exiled.

Demand for purity – Cults have unreachably high standards for the behavior of their members.

Confession – Even trivial violations of the group's demand for purity must be confessed immediately and thoroughly, often to a large group.

Loading the language – Cults redefine common words and use glib thought-terminating catchphrases as an answer to questions.


Additionally, many cults have the following characteristics, though they are not as unique to cults as the ones listed above:


Authoritarianism -- Control of the organization stems from an absolute leader or a small circle of elite commanders. Often the cult's leadership is glorified with a vast personality cult. The leader may be recognized as divine, or even as God.

Secret doctrines - certain "secret" (esoteric) teachings that must not ever be revealed to the outside world

Promised Ones - members of the cult are encouraged to believe they were chosen, or made their choice to join the cult, because they are special or superior

Fire-and-Brimstone - leaving the cult, or failing at one's endeavor to complete the requirements to achieve its panacea, will result in consequences greater than if one had never joined the cult in the first place.

Shunning -- members who leave may not contact members who remain.



In my connotation, I'm trying to define "cult" in terms of behavior and psychology, not belief.

I dont like the New Age usage of "New Religious Movement" to be used synonymously with the word "cult".

As has been noted, end times beliefs among American Xians is not new. Nor are millennarian movements confined to Xianity: end time beliefs (http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/millennium/history.html)
Helpful information, thanks :)

[Mona]

Originally posted by Yahweh


I dont like the New Age usage of "New Religious Movement" to be used synonymously with the word "cult".




!! Um, I am the furthest thing from a New Ager, and my definition of "cult" is an academic one, that is, it reflects the preferred approach of most sociologists, cultural anthropoligists or historians. Lay encyclopedias are interesting, but no more ultimately useful than a creationist's attempt to apply Webster's defintion of "evolution," when scientists usually will take exception to said definition.

If you like, I will post some scholarly discussions of the word "cult," which, as I said, generally reduces to "new religion I do not like." That is why academics have striven mightily to replace the term with the non-pejorative phrase "new religious movement," but it simply has not caught on outside of academic disciplines.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Mona
!! Um, I am the furthest thing from a New Ager, and my definition of "cult" is an academic one, that is, it reflects the preferred approach of most sociologists, cultural anthropoligists or historians. Lay encyclopedias are interesting, but no more ultimately useful than a creationist's attempt to apply Webster's defintion of "evolution," when scientists usually will take exception to said definition.

If you like, I will post some scholarly discussions of the word "cult," which, as I said, generally reduces to "new religion I do not like." That is why academics have striven mightily to replace the term with the non-pejorative phrase "new religious movement," but it simply has not caught on outside of academic disciplines.
I have seen (and been a part of) discussions involved in the definitions of words. Everything from "what is atheism", "what is religion", "is atheism a religion", "are religions cult", "Is Mickey Mouse a cult", "Is science a religion", "Is science a cult", "who took the cookies from the cookie jar", etc. etc. etc.

I reaffirm my position that semantics debates are often the least productive.

I would agree with you, most people intuitively (for lack of better verbiage) define cult as "Religious movement I dont like".

I notice dictionary defintions (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult) dont offer much to go off (i.e. "Cult - An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest").

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

I will sign up on that kooky board soon and show them some real skepticism! They will think better of skepticism! I know I will convert a few to skeptiscientisuperioristism! They haven’t seen true trolling yet! It will be rational and entertaining!!! They won’t be able to argue with me I’m too material minded!

[the_ignored]

Ok, but for the LOVE OF GAWD, don't:

1) use the same username as you have here
2) post links to the actual posts you make over there, otherwise billefan2000 or some other RR guy who lurks here will find out who you are, and get you banned over there...wait until the thread is nice and long, then maybe link the thread itself, and not your post..and don't actually admit that you've posted in that thread. Just make a general comment about it.

DO:
3) if anyone wants to know who you are over there, just PM it to them

4) be very careful about how/what you say things. You've seen how many people from over hear get banned.....too bad, because it's fun to tear them a new one...

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
I will sign up on that kooky board soon and show them some real skepticism! They will think better of skepticism! I know I will convert a few to skeptiscientisuperioristism! They haven’t seen true trolling yet! It will be rational and entertaining!!! They won’t be able to argue with me I’m too material minded!


My money is on that you don't even make it past the registration.

If you make it

- be aware that you as a not-evangelical-Christian must confine your post to the Apologetics forum
- be aware that your skeptiscientisuperioristismnism will get you banned in no time under the one true prophet rule. Or any other rule for that matter



You would however fit just right in if you switched your terminology a bit. Like, for example:

Hypothetical post by !††-Salvation-+††!
I will sign up on that satan infested board soon and show them some real faith in Jesus Christ! They will think better of Jesus! I know I will convert a few to Christianity! They haven’t seen true witnessing yet! It will be righteous and eye-opening!!! They won’t be able to argue with me I've too much Holy Spirit working through me.

:p

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by the_ignored
otherwise billefan2000 or some other RR guy who lurks here will find out who you are, and get you banned over there

I don't think that Billiefan is a little snitch.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
I will sign up on that kooky board soon and show them some real skepticism! They will think better of skepticism! I know I will convert a few to skeptiscientisuperioristism! They haven’t seen true trolling yet! It will be rational and entertaining!!! They won’t be able to argue with me I’m too material minded!

You be banned.

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth

My money is on that you don't even make it past the registration.


Not yet at least! They're irrational and don't allow yahoo accounts! I'll get around it! I just want to spread the word of skeptiscientisuperioristism the same way I do here! I must convert!

[Roadtoad]

Once you're on, ask about John MacArthur, and the stance his church took on suicide. Examine what they tell you. Then ask the tough questions, like, if you're a failure and suicide is God's way of saying, "It's time to come home," why is suicide generally condemned within the church? (That ought to get some heat generated!)

Further, ask how they determine who's truly "right," and how they determine who's destined for Heaven, and who'd destined for Hell. Maybe you could ask how they've figured this out, especially since the Bible states that God's ways are not our ways.

Lots of questions. I've heard their answers and found them lacking. Why do you think I'm here?

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
Not yet at least! They're irrational and don't allow yahoo accounts!

Doesn't sound too irrational to me ... :o

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
I'll get around it! I just want to spread the word of skeptiscientisuperioristism the same way I do here! I must convert!

Why not instead of spreading the word of, spreading the word skeptiscientisuperioristism itself for a start? I bet, again, that there are a lot of poor souls who haven't even seen the word, let alone heard about it. :(


Edited to add:

And no resorting to woo-woo means in getting around it! Hear me?

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
Why not instead of spreading the word of, spreading the word skeptiscientisuperioristism itself for a start? I bet, again, that there are a lot of poor souls who haven't even seen the word, let alone heard about it. :(


When I'm done they won't be able to deny either of them! I hope the natural material laws in existence that make up all of reality will lead them to skeptiscientisuperioristism! These brainwashed fools will soon be fanatical skeptic debunkers!

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!


When I'm done they won't be able to deny either of them! I hope the natural material laws in existence that make up all of reality will lead them to skeptiscientisuperioristism! These brainwashed fools will soon be fanatical skeptic debunkers!

Good. The word wide web needs people like you!

Do you have any clue how many boards there are that are desperatly in need of skeptiscientisuperioristism?

I have seen it :( ... The devastation ... [sniff] The horror ... [sniff, sniff]

OMG it's coming all back :cry:



I'd suggest you don't waste anymore time on this board. Your mission here is complete.

The world wide web needs people like you! Now go out there and show 'em.

[c4ts]

Wow. When most people do drugs they end up like Franko or Ian, but not !Xx+Rational+xX!

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth


Good. The word wide web needs people like you!

Do you have any clue how many boards there are that are desperatly in need of skeptiscientisuperioristism?

I have seen it :( ... The devastation ... [sniff] The horror ... [sniff, sniff]

OMG it's coming all back :cry:



I'd suggest you don't waste anymore time on this board. Your mission here is complete.

The world wide web needs people like you! Now go out there and show 'em.

I wouldn't say my mission is complete there is so much that needs to be done here! I still think that the majority of people here believe in dreaming! But I will be spending more time spreading the great word at other boards that have never heard of it! I'm sorry to inform JREF that the word of sketiscientisuperioristism will no longer be limited to being promoted here!

If I don't get on RR soon I think I will go after a lucid dreaming board!

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by !Xx+-Rational-+xX!
If I don't get on RR soon I think I will go after a lucid dreaming board!

In your dreams, in your dreams ...

[DarkMagician]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
In your dreams, in your dreams ... Bad-dum crash!

[the_ignored]

More europe bashing (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1458963#post1458963) ...

[exarch]

Originally posted by the_ignored
Ok, but for the LOVE OF GAWD, don't:

1) use the same username as you have here
2) post links to the actual posts you make over there, otherwise billefan2000 or some other RR guy who lurks here will find out who you are, and get you banned over there...wait until the thread is nice and long, then maybe link the thread itself, and not your post..and don't actually admit that you've posted in that thread. Just make a general comment about it.I was banned before I ever posted once, only a day or so after signing up. They know I post here (presumably), but I was told that in itself is not normally a reason to get banned ... :rolleyes:

[frisian]

Originally posted by exarch
I was banned before I ever posted once, only a day or so after signing up. They know I post here (presumably), but I was told that in itself is not normally a reason to get banned ... :rolleyes:

Contrary to popular opinion, they don't "ban" people for merely being from here. They are many from here that post over @ RR.

Perhaps you missed where Upchurch posted a link to here from there?

[exarch]

To get back on the topic, this post is interesting:I hope the mods don't ban me for appearing to condone suicide I certainly do not. Let me just give some hypothetical situations though where I think I would use it myself and it would be the right thing to do. I don't expect to be here when the AC turns up and starts executing us western Christians, never the less if I was and was about to be captured by the AC secret police (and had the oportunity to do so) I would probably suicide myself in order to avoid being tortured and hence exposed to the possiblity of recanting my faith and I believe it would be the right thing to do. Normally suicide is dead wrong but in that situation I think it would be permisable. (Boy I hate sounding like an apologist for suicide).I'm not exactly sure what the AC sectret police is, but how weak is his faith if he thinks torture could make him believe something else. No amount of torture could ever make me believe the sky is green with orange dots, although I might be telling people that to make them stop torturing me.

The spanish Inquisition should be proof that this approach doesn't work. And might I add those were christians, not AC secret police, who resorted to torture.

[frisian]

Originally posted by the_ignored
Ok, but for the LOVE OF GAWD, don't:

1) use the same username as you have here
2) post links to the actual posts you make over there, otherwise billefan2000 or some other RR guy who lurks here will find out who you are, and get you banned over there...wait until the thread is nice and long, then maybe link the thread itself, and not your post..and don't actually admit that you've posted in that thread. Just make a general comment about it.


Here I thought paranoia was only manifested at RR. :rolleyes:

1. No member of RR could lurk and get anyone banned from here.
2. No member of here, posting here, would get banned from there via posts made here.

[Roadtoad]

Okay, normally I'm willing to read through some of the more outrageous posts, but as with the Stormfront crowd, (who, frankly, do more than scare me, but actually TERRIFY me), I get to a point where I'm left with my mouth open.

RR and its Eurobashing is more than a little embarassing. First of all, with the EC becoming what they think is the "New Roman Empire," I would think that by following their timetable, we'd have already seen the return of Christ in the flesh, or at least some indication of who the AntiChrist might be. (Personally, I think it's likely to be Fred Phelps or Jerry Fallwell, although if I'd get a pretty good laugh out of it if it turned out to be Jimmy Swaggart.) We haven't. Nor, do I think we will anytime soon. (No, I won't go into my reasoning, but suffice it to say, I'd say that by following the same reasons they do, we're a few centuries too early. Sorry kids. Guess you gotta muddle through like the rest of us.)

But to get to the original point of this, I'm still freaked by the notion suggested by anyone that suicide has any acceptability within ANY belief system. Sure, I understand they've put forth a load of caveats, but for crying out loud, don't you think that most people would look at that and realize it's a thin cover for everything they've said before, meant only for the lawyers? When you have someone who's suffering from Clinical Depression, what do you think they're going to do when they read that?

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely hellish.

[frisian]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
But to get to the original point of this, I'm still freaked by the notion suggested by anyone that suicide has any acceptability within ANY belief system. Sure, I understand they've put forth a load of caveats, but for crying out loud, don't you think that most people would look at that and realize it's a thin cover for everything they've said before, meant only for the lawyers? When you have someone who's suffering from Clinical Depression, what do you think they're going to do when they read that?

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely hellish.

Can someone point me to where that thread is @ RR?

How that fits into a Christian perspective is beyond me. I would like to ask a few questions of this person.

[Roadtoad]

Here you are, Frisian...

Originally posted by Funkenstien
http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=123166

basically, this posts states that this poor soul has no other choice but suicide or martydom. His "friends" online seem to do there best to disuade him, but this almost made me want to call the police:



OK, so this sets the stage, (along with many other very chilling posts) that it's OK to commit suicide if you believe in Jesus. You listen to the threads, and so many people are depressed, anxious for The Second Coming, whats to stop a mass suicide? Whose to say that someone on the thread will be convincing enough to make all these people beleive that the Rapture will only happen if they make it happen?

I get impatient if there's traffic on the way to work. I can only imagine what it must be like waiting for the end of the world. I was never this bad, even at my worse. Somehow, somewhere, somethings gotta give, and I shudder to think of the results. We've already had Mountain Home, Waco, the Branch Davidians, Jim Jones (Kool-Aid anyone?) and countless COUNTLESS others.

Any ideas folks? Where's it gonna end?

Sorry, but I remember interviewing for my College paper Dr. Leo Buscaglia in the wake of the People's Temple wreckage. He said something to me that has stuck with me over the years: "Whenever you play Follow the Guru, he cannot lead you to yourself."

[the_ignored]

And now, for some comic relief (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1465708#post1465708):

On Tuesday, I heard something end times related,
can't remember what it was but my feet felt really
light almost like ready to lift off.

I have never heard any knocks, had any prophetic
dreams or anything before.

Come to think of it, I think it was when I read
Israeli warplanes were attacking the border.

[exarch]

I think I saw the same thing happening to a pig last week ...

[the_ignored]

Oh yeah! They can't wait (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1484236#post1484236) to leave!

[Yahweh]

Poor RR folk...

[Some Friggin Guy]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
Once you're on, ask about John MacArthur, and the stance his church took on suicide. Examine what they tell you. Then ask the tough questions, like, if you're a failure and suicide is God's way of saying, "It's time to come home," why is suicide generally condemned within the church? (That ought to get some heat generated!)

Further, ask how they determine who's truly "right," and how they determine who's destined for Heaven, and who'd destined for Hell. Maybe you could ask how they've figured this out, especially since the Bible states that God's ways are not our ways.

Lots of questions. I've heard their answers and found them lacking. Why do you think I'm here?

We have better hot-wings?

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy


We have better hot-wings?

Well, there's that. Plus, better beer.

[exarch]

Originally posted by frisian
Here I thought paranoia was only manifested at RR. :rolleyes:

1. No member of RR could lurk and get anyone banned from here.
2. No member of here, posting here, would get banned from there via posts made here.If rule 1 or 2 are never broken, howcome I ended up being banned before I ever got the chance to post? It certainly wasn't for posts I made THERE, since I never even got the chance to do so :rolleyes:

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by exarch
If rule 1 or 2 are never broken, howcome I ended up being banned before I ever got the chance to post? It certainly wasn't for posts I made THERE, since I never even got the chance to do so :rolleyes:

Did you get banned or did your account not get approved of?

[Virgil]

I troll at RR, but I've gained respect for some of them. because some of them can think for themselves.


Virgil

[exarch]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth
Did you get banned or did your account not get approved of?Well, I can log in, and it says "Welcome exarch" when I'm on the main page. I simply can't access anything you need to be logged in for (like my own user profile). When I do that it says I need to be a member.

[the_ignored]

Just check out the other posts in the thread here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1035193#post1035193).

[exarch]

Originally posted by the_ignored
Just check out the other posts in the thread here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1035193#post1035193).I think none of them understand the intrinsic error in wagering. If god really wants people to believe in him, scaring (dare I say coercing) them into pretending to be good christians isn't going to fly. If god is all-knowing, he'll know you're just faking, taking the easy road because people told you it's the right thing to do and you're so afraid you just take the safest bet.

Being a christian is easy. Most of them lack the courage to admit there are inconsistencies. It takes a lot of guts to become an atheist and turn your entire world view upside down, but one thing is for sure, those who did have shown they can think for themselves, and have made up their mind despite the threat of hell and damnation hanging over their head. I think that's commendable.

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by exarch
Well, I can log in, and it says "Welcome exarch" when I'm on the main page. I simply can't access anything you need to be logged in for (like my own user profile). When I do that it says I need to be a member.

Then you haven't been banned.

It's more like you never have been approved of in the first place. It seems to happen quite a lot to posters form this board trying to sign up "over there" but not to all. To be able to post there you have to have received a second e-mail. And I think you are missing this one still.

I don't know what you could do. Perhaps you can try to send them an e-mail (there should be a link in your confirmation e-mail) and ask what's up?

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by the_ignored
Just check out the other posts in the thread here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1035193#post1035193).

This is called "healthy fear," I think. [sigh] :(

[frisian]

Originally posted by exarch
If rule 1 or 2 are never broken, howcome I ended up being banned before I ever got the chance to post? It certainly wasn't for posts I made THERE, since I never even got the chance to do so :rolleyes:

Got me, I am not an admin...:p

Try pm-ing them, this seems to be a common problem for some reason.

[exarch]

Originally posted by frisian
Got me, I am not an admin...:p

Try pm-ing them, this seems to be a common problem for some reason.Aye, that seems to be it then :confused:

[Ruby]

Originally posted by El Greco
I went once to RR to read some posts thinking that it would be fun but it is very depressing. When it's not insane and sick, that is.

That's one reason I try to stay to away from RR and other Christian forums as much as possible. I do get tempted to check out threads when they are discussed on here. I did check out the one in question for this discussion.

They generally make me very angry and disgusted. Plus, it is a reminder of the mindset that I was trapped in for over ten years of my life. I hate to read of others so trapped and duped by it all. AS you say, it can be very depressing.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by El Greco
I went once to RR to read some posts thinking that it would be fun but it is very depressing. When it's not insane and sick, that is.

That's one reason I try to stay to away from RR and other Christian forums as much as possible. I do get tempted to check out threads when they are discussed on here. I did check out the one in question for this discussion.

They generally make me very angry and disgusted. Plus, it is a reminder of the mindset that I was trapped in for over ten years of my life. I hate to read of others so trapped and duped by it all. AS you say, it can be very depressing.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by El Greco
I went once to RR to read some posts thinking that it would be fun but it is very depressing. When it's not insane and sick, that is.

That's one reason I try to stay to away from RR and other Christian forums as much as possible. I do get tempted to check out threads when they are discussed on here. I did check out the one in question for this discussion.

They generally make me very angry and disgusted. Plus, it is a reminder of the mindset that I was trapped in for over ten years of my life. I hate to read of others so trapped and duped by it all. AS you say, it can be very depressing.

[the_ignored]

This post (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1496691#post1496691) has got to be the most warped thing I've ever seen! (It's in "Members Only" though, unfortunatly!)

"Based on that comment I would say at that point of time you were no longer talking to the man that you see, but rather his demon."<--"hopemail" quoting some guy talking about another crazy group, the "scientologists", the irony in this thread is almost too much to bear, much less the usual insanity!

"Amen!! That's what I thought too."

I agree, and glad to see there are others whose first thought is this...

a week ago I went to the mountains of Colorado with some friends, one of whom preaches. He's a creationist big into 'trying to' refute evolutionists, I say 'trying to' because he's rather wishy-washy in his arguments. I told him, I'd rather argue with a brick that an evolutionist, a brick is more pliable.

I said to him, "you know why you creationists hardly ever look good in an argument with an evolutionist?" "No, why?" he asked. I said, "because evolution’s premise is the repudiation of the existence of G-D. Therefore it's excelling is very important to satan, therefore evolutionists, particularly the fervent ones, are closely watched over and protected by satan. he gives them the belief system and arguments to discredit wishy-washy counter arguments, probably assigns a personal imp to plant thoughts and words in times of debate. Creationists end up arging of their own limited resources against timeless spiritual entities with unlimited resources for lies and arguments."

I asked him, "you ever heard of a creationist binding the evolutionist's demon before engaging the evolutionist?" (he’s of that anti-spirit denomination, went right over his head). "No, actually, I never have", he said. I told him, "that’s the trouble, none do, in fact it doesn't even occur to them, I've never heard of one doing it." I told him to try it the next time he's confronted,.. and, at the same time, ask the HS to give you the thoughts and words you need. "You'll find out that even the best of evolutionists become disarmed when his protective demon is gagged and a particularly poignant point is raised in the discussion (as planted by the HS)."

Then, when asked by someone else:
Originally posted by Heracles
Binding demons? Please tell me you're not serious!

I'm quite serious...


Then, in another post, someone said:
A very long time ago I thought demons were mythology.
Now I know better!
mercyme

and, now, for a humor break, from another post (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1496548#post1496548) on that thread, by some guy named "LaMontre"
Thats the one common denominator among "religious" unbelievers. They are hypocritical and logically inconsistant. And really, that is your best weapon in witnessing to them.

[exarch]

I finally get it, Rapture Ready is actually a comedian message board :D

Sometimes I'm afraid to tell people in Europe about this stuff, because their reaction is usually something like: "Yep, all those crazy Americans".

I always take comfort in the tought that if Bush is cutting funding, screwing up education and forbidding genetic research, it will just be a local problem, and progress will continue here in Europe unhindered and the next big scientific breakthroughs will be European.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by exarch
I finally get it, Rapture Ready is actually a comedian message board :D

Sometimes I'm afraid to tell people in Europe about this stuff, because their reaction is usually something like: "Yep, all those crazy Americans".

I always take comfort in the tought that if Bush is cutting funding, screwing up education and forbidding genetic research, it will just be a local problem, and progress will continue here in Europe unhindered and the next big scientific breakthroughs will be European.

They probably will be.

Actually, don't laugh too loudly. One of the evangelists at the Christian radio station where I used to work spent a lot of time working in Europe. Sweden had actually asked him to leave at one point, though he was allowed back in. (Their Supreme Court said it was wrong to block his entry. He'd broken no laws, and in their opinion, he was merely a nuisance.)

It's really not funny when you think about it, Exarch. We're talking about people who will blame "demons" for anything and everything. They bear no responsibility for their own failings. It was a DEMON that did them in.

And it's sad.

[Yahweh]

probably assigns a personal imp to plant thoughts and words in times of debate
Is that so?... :confused:

(Kids, the above is a perfect example of "demonizing the unbelievers". This tactic is a favorite among the bigoted. Its not uncommon for even an educated evolutionist to feel sorry for these people, their minds are soft clay, and its been molded by ignorance...)

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Lord Emsworth


This is called "healthy fear," I think. [sigh] :(

When it comes to hellfire & damnation.........it's tough to beat Sam Kinison back in his "preacher" days.........

[the_ignored]

From, of course, a Members Only (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1500638#post1500638) section:

I hear family members all the time talking about their money and what they will have come retirment and all this talk about..we are going to buy this...go there..see that...

and it makes me so sad..cause if they only knew what was coming.

hubby's brother was bragging awhile back about this money he put away for his 2 young sons and how much they will have when the graduate....i just wanted to shout...that dont matter.....their little souls matter...

everyone is planning , living, working for a future that isnt there.

time is ticking away...and we wont be here in 50 years..i doubt we willl be here in a couple years...

sad, but that real estate wont be worth much after some nucular war, some earth flattening earthquakes, meteors,....etc

if they could only see Jesus is all that matters and time is short.

[c4ts]

Suppose Jesus was real and actually returned to present day to rescue the believers from the Devil and whatnot. He wouldn't even recognize himself in those messed up beliefs those RR guys have concocted, let alone save them.

[Funkenstien]

Suppose Jesus was real and actually returned to present day to rescue the believers from the Devil and whatnot. He wouldn't even recognize himself in those messed up beliefs those RR guys have concocted, let alone save them.

This is a very good point.

[exarch]

Originally posted by the_ignored
From, of course, a Members Only (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1500638#post1500638) section:I hear family members all the time talking about their money and what they will have come retirment and all this talk about..we are going to buy this...go there..see that...

and it makes me so sad..cause if they only knew what was coming.

hubby's brother was bragging awhile back about this money he put away for his 2 young sons and how much they will have when the graduate....i just wanted to shout...that dont matter.....their little souls matter...

everyone is planning , living, working for a future that isnt there.

time is ticking away...and we wont be here in 50 years..i doubt we willl be here in a couple years...

sad, but that real estate wont be worth much after some nucular war, some earth flattening earthquakes, meteors,....etc

if they could only see Jesus is all that matters and time is short.So they are against progress. They just want everyone to sit around and wait.

What is it again they say about idle hands and stuff like that?

I'd rather get ahead (and around) in the world, buy some nice stuff, travel to TAM3, TAM4, etc...

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by exarch
So they are against progress. They just want everyone to sit around and wait.

What is it again they say about idle hands and stuff like that?

I'd rather get ahead (and around) in the world, buy some nice stuff, travel to TAM3, TAM4, etc... [/QUOTE]

What you're thinking of is something the Apostle Paul said: "Those that do not work, neither shall they eat." Need a ref?

[exarch]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
What you're thinking of is something the Apostle Paul said: "Those that do not work, neither shall they eat." Need a ref?No, I know very well what the quote is, as I'm sure the fundies do too.

[Roadtoad]

One more thing bothers the hell out of me about the Rapture Ready crowd.

I don't know if I'm the only one who's noticed, but there's a strong thread of narcissism in that bunch. The whole idea of "ME, ME, ME!" that I'm saved, and YOU'RE NOT! SAVE YOURSELF! The whole thing reeks of the very sort of cliquishness that Jesus himself is recorded as hating, from his confrontation of the Pharisees at the temple all the way through to his crucifixion.

What makes it so pathetic is that it is a denial of God's existence. If they truly believed in a god, ANY god, they would be knocking themselves silly to try and do what that god had ordered. They don't. It goes right back to "SAVE ME, JESUS!" And the hell with everyone else.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by c4ts
Suppose Jesus was real and actually returned to present day to rescue the believers from the Devil and whatnot. He wouldn't even recognize himself in those messed up beliefs those RR guys have concocted, let alone save them.
I have a hard time imagining our Buddy Christ as the conservative anti-gay bigoted hateful Uberfundy that the Rapture Folks seem to have in mind...

[c4ts]

The fundies are what happens when there's too much organized religion and not enough brains to go around.

[billiefan2000]

Since the bible proves the Revived Roman Empire in Prophecy is the European Union it is now Euro-Bashing we are doing

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
Since the bible proves the Revived Roman Empire in Prophecy is the European Union it is now Euro-Bashing we are doing

The bible proves no such thing. You may beleive that it does but that does not constitute proof. Over the centuries just about any large group or nation has been intepreted as the Revived Roman Empire. I remember in the late 70's and Early 80's both the U.S. and Russia were interpreted as the Revived Roman Empire by different groups.

[billiefan2000]

so you are saying

http://www.bible-prophecy.com/roman.htm

is wrong on what they are saying

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
so you are saying

http://www.bible-prophecy.com/roman.htm

is wrong on what they are saying

Yes I am. Over the past 2000 or so years many people have taken those same scriptures and come to very different conclusions. I have toa sk myself, which seems more likely: 1)That these people finally have it right or 2) That people of every era are going to interpret these things to fit whatever situation the world is in at the time.

Option 2 seems vastly more likely to me.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
One more thing bothers the hell out of me about the Rapture Ready crowd.

I don't know if I'm the only one who's noticed, but there's a strong thread of narcissism in that bunch. The whole idea of "ME, ME, ME!" that I'm saved, and YOU'RE NOT! SAVE YOURSELF! The whole thing reeks of the very sort of cliquishness that Jesus himself is recorded as hating, from his confrontation of the Pharisees at the temple all the way through to his crucifixion.

What makes it so pathetic is that it is a denial of God's existence. If they truly believed in a god, ANY god, they would be knocking themselves silly to try and do what that god had ordered. They don't. It goes right back to "SAVE ME, JESUS!" And the hell with everyone else.


2 cars waiting at a stoplight. The light turns green but the car in front doesn't move.

The woman in the second car becomes irritated and starts to pound on the steering wheel.

The man still didn't move.

The woman hits the horn,shakes her fist at the man, and starts yelling at him to move.

The car continues to sit there.

The woman goes ballistic-------ranting & raving at the guy,screaming curses, and flipping him off.

Finally--just as the light turns yellow---the man guns his engine & speeds off through the intersection leaving the woman sitting at a red light.

The woman goes absolutlely ape-**** now, foaming at the mouth, swearing,screaming..........

As she was still in "mid-rant" she hears a tap at the window and looks up into the barrel of a gun held by a very serious looking policeman.

The cop tells her to shut the car off and keep both hands in sight.

He then orders her out of the car , handcuffs her, and hustles her into the cruiser which speeds off to the local police station where she is fingerprinted,photographed,strip-searched, and booked.

After several hours sitting in a jailcell wondering what in hell she did wrong---the officer who arrested her comes in, unlocks the door, and says "I'm very sorry for the mix-up but I pulled up behind you at the light. When I saw the "choose life" license plate holder, the "What would Jesus do" and "Follow me to Sunday School" bumper stickers, and the christian fish emblem on the trunk.................I just figured the car HAD to have been stolen..




Just read this on another board......I have a feeling it's based on a true incident......................Ralph

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by Ralph
Just read this on another board......I have a feeling it's based on a true incident......................Ralph

:dl:

[Filippo Lippi]

This really is worrying (http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=130768)

Nottingham is supposed to be one of the most violent places in the UK, but I'd rather be anywhere than where those guys are at

[Funkenstien]

Since the bible proves the Revived Roman Empire in Prophecy is the European Union it is now Euro-Bashing we are doing

:mad:

Show me where you think the Bible "proves" that the EU is the revived Roman Empire, and I will show you at least 5 others throughout history that were better examples.

[exarch]

I think Bush is the anti-christ ...

[the_ignored]

These are from the "End Times Chat" section, NOT in "Members Only".


WMDs and Liberal Lies (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1515235#post1515235)

CNN = Clinton News Network, and reporting facts?

Why did they sit on Monica Lewinsky story, and now, looks like they sat on the Kerry (possible) infidelity sotry?

No, they don't report facts. cAuse anyone who thinks that the WMD's did not exist are living in a world not on this planet

I say we go to Syria and take them by force if necessary.
or this from the first post on that thread:
I didn't not have to wait too long for the answer: With the media and Hollywood's "mental giants" as accomplices, you simply create the phrase "Bush lied about WMDs" even though Democrats and anti-American countries ALSO believed that Saddam Hussein had acquired them. {Many are on record stating the dangers of Iraq's regime and sounded just like "hawks" back then. Suddenly they are all peace loving doves, insisting that Bush is a liar.} Then you get the campaign really going by blanketing the airwaves with the same theme.

Isn't it a no-brainer that the UN's foot dragging gave Saddam plenty of time to divest himself of the weapons in question? I think they are hidden mainly in Syria, possibly in preparation of the terrible fulfillment of Isaiah 17. It all fits.

Good news, though. When you read through the threads there, you DO find SOME who stand up for reason Just not as many as you find here!


This one is kind of...cute? My Son Witnesses for the first time (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=131792).

[BroodingSkill]

Refering to Fillipo Lippi's post:

I thought these guys were going to get raptured? and soon.
So what do they need guns for?

just curious.

[exarch]

Originally posted by the_ignored
These are from the "End Times Chat" section, NOT in "Members Only".

WMDs and Liberal Lies (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1515235#post1515235)

or this from the first post on that thread:

I didn't not have to wait too long for the answer: With the media and Hollywood's "mental giants" as accomplices, you simply create the phrase "Bush lied about WMDs" even though Democrats and anti-American countries ALSO believed that Saddam Hussein had acquired them. {Many are on record stating the dangers of Iraq's regime and sounded just like "hawks" back then. Suddenly they are all peace loving doves, insisting that Bush is a liar.} Then you get the campaign really going by blanketing the airwaves with the same theme.

Isn't it a no-brainer that the UN's foot dragging gave Saddam plenty of time to divest himself of the weapons in question? I think they are hidden mainly in Syria, possibly in preparation of the terrible fulfillment of Isaiah 17. It all fits.Good news, though. When you read through the threads there, you DO find SOME who stand up for reason Just not as many as you find here!I thought they were hoping for the end-times to start soon?

Anyway, the reason we (The EU) didn't want to go to war is exactly the reason we wanted the UN weapons inspectors to first finish the job they were doing (and doing rather well in fact, despite what was being said at the time). So we wouldn't embarras ourselves standing there looking all over Iraq not finding any WMD :rolleyes:

It also seems that the unstability that was predicted would ensue is about to happen as well. Whether there are elections or not, democracy or not, the middle east is building up pressure and we owe it all to Bush's rash decisions :(

[Filippo Lippi]

Originally posted by BroodingSkill
Refering to Fillipo Lippi's post:

I thought these guys were going to get raptured? and soon.
So what do they need guns for?

just curious.

Seems a bit un-christ-like to be talking about stopping power, not a lot of "turn the other cheek" there.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by BroodingSkill
Refering to Fillipo Lippi's post:

I thought these guys were going to get raptured? and soon.
So what do they need guns for?

just curious.

Jesus is coming soon----and he's gonna be PACKIN HEAT!!!!!!!!!

Probably a Sig or Glock. Revolvers are for heathens.

[Roadtoad]

Man, have you all opened a can of worms.

What you're referring to is the Pre-Trib rapture. However, most scholars of Classical Theology are of the belief that the Church will endure the Tribulation along with everyone else in the world, which would, in turn, be more in line with Christ's teachings. The idea of the Church being taken out of the world before the tribulation hits is a relatively recent teaching, and is of questionable lineage.

Dr. Vernon Doerksen in his book on Systematic Theology discussed this at length.

My own view: When I was a churchman, I said I was a panmillenialist. In the end, it all panned out.:D

[Wrath of the Swarm]

Originally posted by c4ts
Suppose Jesus was real and actually returned to present day to rescue the believers from the Devil and whatnot. He wouldn't even recognize himself in those messed up beliefs those RR guys have concocted, let alone save them. Then we'd not only have to suppose that Jesus was real, but that he taught pretty much what he was said to have taught AND that he was somehow unaware of what had happened here while he was out.

None of those things seem very likely.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by billiefan2000
so you are saying

http://www.bible-prophecy.com/roman.htm

is wrong on what they are saying
I found the site amusing, so what about it?

[exarch]

Originally posted by Yahweh
I found the site amusing, so what about it?I like how they are saying us Europeans are all becoming kick*ss military powers. :D
(I wouldn't even have noticed, what with all the military budget cuts and all)

[Filippo Lippi]

Originally posted by exarch
I like how they are saying us Europeans are all becoming kick*ss military powers. :D
(I wouldn't even have noticed, what with all the military budget cuts and all)

Oh, I don't know. I understand that the UK now has some weaponry that actually works

[the_ignored]

Well, it looks like they're expecting things to happen quite soon now. I'll just put up one post (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1519386#post1519386) from that thread...


Kind of skim through the speech from Solano they quoted, and note some of the numerology they go through in the later posts. They talk about May 1, 2004, and "coincedental" events that happened at the same time as that speech.


Not sure how much to swallow.

Heh



And now, some more whining (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=131958)...

[Ralph]

Originally posted by the_ignored
Well, it looks like they're expecting things to happen quite soon now. I'll just put up one post (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1519386#post1519386) from that thread...


Kind of skim through the speech from Solano they quoted, and note some of the numerology they go through in the later posts. They talk about May 1, 2004, and "coincedental" events that happened at the same time as that speech.


Not sure how much to swallow.

Heh



And now, some more whining (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?threadid=131958)...


From reading the various posts over there----they seem to have more than the average share of personal problems. Many of them seem to feel that the adversity they're experiencing is somehow due to the fact that they're not in Gods favor. He is not happy with their behavior and pain in their lives is his way of letting them know he's pissed off at them.

God either directly inflicted the pain or he failed to protect you from all these demons that are running aroung the planet causing misery for everybody.

There was one thread from a woman with health problems. She was convinced that it was because she was sinning and God was letting her know his displeasure by inflicting pain on her.

I mentioned that even though I was in my 50's and wasn't a believer----my health was excellent along with most all the other aspects of my life.

If sinning and not being in Gods favor results in things not going right....how do you explain me. I like porn----I laugh at Sam Kinison jokes------my life should be a living hell.


As expected---they had an explanation for this. Apparently--Satan obviously allreadY "had" me. I was in his clutches---so there was no further need to "work" on me so that's why there were no problems in my life.

If you're a saved christian though--Satan hasn't gotten your soul yet. You will have a literal parade of demons following around all day causing mayhem in your life.

It sounds to me like if you're searching for happiness--all you have to do is stop at the library--pick up some Harry Potter novels and then hit the video store for some porn & all the George Carlin you can get your hands on.

Satan will bug off & life will be sweet.

[Temporal Renegade]

I still say, the Rapture is a farce.

If it didn't happen when the Holocaust occured, or when the Inquisition was in full swing, or during any & all the other various & sundry times it *should* have happened during history's darkest times, why would it happen NOW?

And, can someone explain to me, why would the bodies have to rise up from the graves, and why would your LIVING body have to be taken up, and not just your soul?

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Temporal Renegade
I still say, the Rapture is a farce.

If it didn't happen when the Holocaust occured, or when the Inquisition was in full swing, or during any & all the other various & sundry times it *should* have happened during history's darkest times, why would it happen NOW?

And, can someone explain to me, why would the bodies have to rise up from the graves, and why would your LIVING body have to be taken up, and not just your soul?

Read some of the Rapture Ready threads.

I think you'll find that such things as gay marriages & Janet Jacksons superbowl stunt are of far greater concern to them (and indicative of the "end")than the 50 million or so deaths in WW2.

It's a matter of priorities.

[exarch]

Originally posted by the_ignored
Well, it looks like they're expecting things to happen quite soon now. I'll just put up one post (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1519386#post1519386) from that thread...These guys are seriously disturbed. It just scares me to think that they have kids, and guns, ... :(

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by Temporal Renegade
And, can someone explain to me, why would the bodies have to rise up from the graves, and why would your LIVING body have to be taken up, and not just your soul?

You mean spiritual?

:dl:







:D

:p

I think they'd probably slide down a slippery slope away from literalism.

[Humphreys]

Originally posted by Ralph


Jesus is coming soon----and he's gonna be PACKIN HEAT!!!!!!!!!

Probably a Sig or Glock. Revolvers are for heathens.

Jay-Zus: "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but an AK47."

Shee-yat!

[Roadtoad]

You know, the mindless bathos of the RR crowd gets to me after about thirty seconds. The pat answers for tough questions. A woman is suffering because she's not in God's favor. She doesn't take a long hard look at what's really going on in her life. Maybe the reason she's suffering is because she's so bent on being "Spiritual," she hasn't the common sense to stand up and say, "I am not taking this any more." It could be that most of her suffering is curable, if only she'd take action.

It's tough to do. I know this; I've been there. But sometimes, as hard as it is to do, it's the best thing.

I have no idea what sort of "God" this woman is following, but I can tell you this: He's a jerk. What sort of "God" demands that people suffer needlessly?