ae911t petition signers page "removed from operation"

[tfk]

Does anyone have any idea why the ae911truth.org petition signers page has been disabled for about a month?

I go there periodically to see if they've signed up any new mechanical or structural engineers. My casual tally (just searching for the words "mechanical engineer" or "structural engineer") yields the following:

[Sept 09 tally of "Engineers (degeed & licensed - active & retired)]
Structural Engineer: 26
Mechanical Engineer: 20
Civil Engineer: 52
Electrical Engineer: 14
Other: 56

Total: 168

When compiling these numbers, there are going to be a few errors. My search will find a false positive on the phrase "I may not be a structural engineer...". And a false negative on "structural & forensic engineer". But it is close enough.

My take on this is that there is zero reason why any competent structural or mechanical engineer should have anything to do with these people & their nonsense.

Civil Engineers should know better, but their direct experience might not include some of the finer points of stress, strain, plastic strain, creep & buckling. Which is about all you have to really know to understand exactly what happened. So we can give a little latitude to our Civil (or uncivil) brethren.

All the other engineers have little background in structures. But, fer crissakes, they're engineers, people!! They ought to have a lick of common sense...?!!

So, all told, out of their (now claimed) 900+ architects & engineers, they've got:

46 who have no excuse
Everyone else (122) who ought to know better

And about 800 people who are peripherally related to the engineering profession and overly credulous.

But, my original question stands. Anyone with any idea why their member's list is down?

Tom

[jhunter1163]

I wonder how many domestic engineers and sanitation engineers they have.

[McHrozni]

Does anyone have any idea why the ae911truth.org petition signers page has been disabled for about a month?

I go there periodically to see if they've signed up any new mechanical or structural engineers. My casual tally (just searching for the words "mechanical engineer" or "structural engineer") yields the following:

[Sept 09 tally of "Engineers (degeed & licensed - active & retired)]
Structural Engineer: 26
Mechanical Engineer: 20
Civil Engineer: 52
Electrical Engineer: 14
Other: 56

Total: 168

When compiling these numbers, there are going to be a few errors. My search will find a false positive on the phrase "I may not be a structural engineer...". And a false negative on "structural & forensic engineer". But it is close enough.

My take on this is that there is zero reason why any competent structural or mechanical engineer should have anything to do with these people & their nonsense.

Civil Engineers should know better, but their direct experience might not include some of the finer points of stress, strain, plastic strain, creep & buckling. Which is about all you have to really know to understand exactly what happened. So we can give a little latitude to our Civil (or uncivil) brethren.

All the other engineers have little background in structures. But, fer crissakes, they're engineers, people!! They ought to have a lick of common sense...?!!

So, all told, out of their (now claimed) 900+ architects & engineers, they've got:

46 who have no excuse
Everyone else (122) who ought to know better

And about 800 people who are peripherally related to the engineering profession and overly credulous.

But, my original question stands. Anyone with any idea why their member's list is down?

Tom

I can't answer your original question, but I can tell you that many of these "engineers" are just people pretending to be engineers to boost the numbers on the page.
I tried to look a few of them up, you see. I found the person behind the name, but they weren't engineers.

McHrozni

[deep]

I can't answer your original question, but I can tell you that many of these "engineers" are just people pretending to be engineers to boost the numbers on the page.
I tried to look a few of them up, you see. I found the person behind the name, but they weren't engineers.


Which ones? Please provide names.

[tfk]

McH,

Chech your PM. I just dropped you a note.

Tom

[DGM]

I just sent the webmaster an email asking him (about the list down). I'm curious, Have you asked them? If not, Why?

[deep]

But, my original question stands. Anyone with any idea why their member's list is down?


Works for me.

http://www.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

[McHrozni]

Which ones? Please provide names.

Unfortunately I didn't record them. I honestly don't think it's all that important, since their movement has preciously little to show anyway.

McHrozni

[McHrozni]

McH,

Chech your PM. I just dropped you a note.

Tom

Already replied. Twice :)

McHrozni

[BigAl]

Which ones? Please provide names.

Since none of them speak in public and none of them publish anything in their area of expertise that shows anything unusual about 9/11, it doesn't matter. They might as well not exist.

For all practical purposes, ae911truth has a membership of one plus Deet, who apparently just works from Gages's powerpoint slides.

[deep]

Unfortunately I didn't record them.


Then, unfortunately, your claim has no merit.

[McHrozni]

Then, unfortunately, your claim has no merit.

It's hardly important, for reasons pointed out above.

McHrozni

[T.A.M.]

Then, unfortunately, your claim has no merit.

lol...that is rich from a truther.

TAM:)

[tfk]

I just sent the webmaster an email asking him (about the list down). I'm curious, Have you asked them? If not, Why?


D,

No, I never tried the (DOH...!) utterly reasonable tactic that you suggest. I've just been waiting for them to come back on-line & just realized that it's been about a month that they've been down.

I was just curious if anyone had heard any reason for it.

Tom

[DGM]

D,

No, I never tried the (DOH...!) utterly reasonable tactic that you suggest. I've just been waiting for them to come back on-line & just realized that it's been about a month that they've been down.

I was just curious if anyone had heard any reason for it.

Tom
I'll let you know what I hear. I also have an email to Gages personally about his "creative" numbers (in his hands up poll) in Cambridge MA.

[McHrozni]

D,

No, I never tried the (DOH...!) utterly reasonable tactic that you suggest. I've just been waiting for them to come back on-line & just realized that it's been about a month that they've been down.

I was just curious if anyone had heard any reason for it.

Tom

Does the listing work for you right now? It does for me. Try checking.

McHrozni

[Bluesky]

Does anyone have any idea why the ae911truth.org petition signers page has been disabled for about a month?

I go there periodically to see if they've signed up any new mechanical or structural engineers. My casual tally (just searching for the words "mechanical engineer" or "structural engineer") yields the following:

[Sept 09 tally of "Engineers (degeed & licensed - active & retired)]
Structural Engineer: 26
Mechanical Engineer: 20
Civil Engineer: 52
Electrical Engineer: 14
Other: 56

Total: 168

When compiling these numbers, there are going to be a few errors. My search will find a false positive on the phrase "I may not be a structural engineer...". And a false negative on "structural & forensic engineer". But it is close enough.

My take on this is that there is zero reason why any competent structural or mechanical engineer should have anything to do with these people & their nonsense.

Civil Engineers should know better, but their direct experience might not include some of the finer points of stress, strain, plastic strain, creep & buckling. Which is about all you have to really know to understand exactly what happened. So we can give a little latitude to our Civil (or uncivil) brethren.

All the other engineers have little background in structures. But, fer crissakes, they're engineers, people!! They ought to have a lick of common sense...?!!

So, all told, out of their (now claimed) 900+ architects & engineers, they've got:

46 who have no excuse
Everyone else (122) who ought to know better

And about 800 people who are peripherally related to the engineering profession and overly credulous.

But, my original question stands. Anyone with any idea why their member's list is down?

Tom

Creative accounting is part of Gage's modus opperandi.

I count less than 800 names in total while his web sites claims to have 940. Ae911tm still has less than 80 structural and civil engineers and less than 135 registered architects. So for an industry with hundreds of thousands of both in the US the ae911truth can be safely ignored.

[deep]

No, I never tried the (DOH...!) utterly reasonable tactic that you suggest. I've just been waiting for them to come back on-line & just realized that it's been about a month that they've been down.

I was just curious if anyone had heard any reason for it.


Are you using a bookmark? The list is accessible from their main web page - perhaps the URL was changed?

[tfk]

Sorry guys,

I should have posted the specific link.

This link, and all sublinks, is out: http://www.ae911truth.org/supporters.php

When you go to "About Us ... Petition signers ... Profiles ", you come to this page. This is also where they distinguish the signers by "professional status". The only category with which I'm concerned is "licensed & degreed engineers". Specifically "degreed structural & mechanical engineers". These are the guys that really should know this damage / failure modes / collapse mechanisms stuff cold.

Tom

[tfk]

OK,

Latest tally.

I can see that my previous tallies were incomplete. I hadn't included "Engineering Professionals" in my tally.

So, here's the totals, based on the webpage that deep pointed out.


Licensed: 186
Professional Engineers: 120
(Note Most Licensed Engineers are PEs)


By Specialty
Structural: 13
Mechanical: 90 (gak!!)
Civil: 70
Other: 348

Total: 521

Ah well. Out of about a million, I guess this ain't so bad... Could be better, tho.


Tom

PS. It was very instructive to me to see the number of folks who wrote in their "Personal Statement" something to the effect: "As soon as I saw those buildings fall on 9/11, I KNEW that something was really fishy..."

Experienced engineers (and professionals in all fields) know better than to leap to conclusions on first glance.

This is exactly why newspaper reports are so full of erroneous information in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy. Only the amateurs (& 3rd rate pros) will comment immediately.

All the professionals will say "Let's wait for the experts to look at the situation carefully before leaping to a conclusion."

[8den]

I can't answer your original question, but I can tell you that many of these "engineers" are just people pretending to be engineers to boost the numbers on the page.
I tried to look a few of them up, you see. I found the person behind the name, but they weren't engineers.

McHrozni


We played a game here a few years back where were signed up to the AE petition with the most ridiculous user name and professional background.

I spent two days on the list despite registering myself as a Professor Hubert J Farnsworth, a graduate of Mars U, with an expertise in "Doomsday devices"

Thats right for 48 hours there was a cartoon character among the signatures.

http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/37699.gif

But, good news everybody, some of the more subtle frauds are still on the list.

[McHrozni]

We played a game here a few years back where were signed up to the AE petition with the most ridiculous user name and professional background.

I spent two days on the list despite registering myself as a Professor Hubert J Farnsworth, a graduate of Mars U, with an expertise in "Doomsday devices"

Thats right for 48 hours there was a cartoon character among the signatures.

http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/37699.gif

But, good news everybody, some of the more subtle frauds are still on the list.

Nice one :D

I do wonder what percentage up there are frauds, and how many of those frauds were not from supporters, but from those attempting to test the system and finding it lacking.
We could be inadvertently helping AE911twoof in their appeal to authority :)

McHrozni

[McHrozni]

OK,

Latest tally.

I can see that my previous tallies were incomplete. I hadn't included "Engineering Professionals" in my tally.

So, here's the totals, based on the webpage that deep pointed out.


Licensed: 186
Professional Engineers: 120
(Note Most Licensed Engineers are PEs)


By Specialty
Structural: 13
Mechanical: 90 (gak!!)
Civil: 70
Other: 348

Total: 521

Ah well. Out of about a million, I guess this ain't so bad... Could be better, tho.


Hmmmm.
Can someone photoshop this on a T-shirt maybe?

"0.05% of experts agree:
We need a new investigation on 9/11"

McHrozni

[Panoply_Prefect]

I remember Gordon Freeman was on that list for even longer....

[deep]

But, good news everybody, some of the more subtle frauds are still on the list.


Please provide their names.

[BenBurch]

Please provide their names.

So they can be purged? Not a chance.

[8den]

Please provide their names.

And ruin our fun? Never.

It's fun with a purpose it demonstrations the shoddy standards of Gage's group, and how laughable their appeals authority really are, when there are still dozens of fake "architects" and "engineers" as part of his list of professionals.

[Mr.D]

Then, unfortunately, your claim has no merit.

Please provide their names.

Deep,

You do have a point. Claims have been made in this thread that are not properly backed up.

What you're missing is that this topic has been gone over many times; If you search the forums, you will find several threads in which faked people have been signed up and appear on the list despite never being vetted. There's also a long thread in which numerous signees are tracked down and found to not be engineers etc. IIRC there is also a thread in which a JREF poster tried to get his fake name removed from the list and failed.

All of this is consistent with Gage's documented behavior in other ways (again, search the forum). Blatant problems with his presentations have been brought to his attention; sometimes in person, and yet his slides are never updated or corrected.


If you're really curious about his list, why don't you sign up with faked (but vaguely plausible) credentials and experience the vetting process yourself? Then later ask to be removed from the list and see what happens. Don't forget to report the results of your experiment here ...

[Lenbrazil]

Does anyone have any idea why the ae911truth.org petition signers page has been disabled for about a month?

I go there periodically to see if they've signed up any new mechanical or structural engineers. My casual tally (just searching for the words "mechanical engineer" or "structural engineer") yields the following:

[Sept 09 tally of "Engineers (degeed & licensed - active & retired)]
Structural Engineer: 26
Mechanical Engineer: 20
Civil Engineer: 52
Electrical Engineer: 14
Other: 56

Total: 168
[...]

But, my original question stands. Anyone with any idea why their member's list is down?

Tom

"So, all told, out of their (now claimed) 900+ architects & engineers,"

Look carefully they say "architectural and engineering professionals" which includes draftsmen, assistants and even a engineer recruiter.

This page is still up:
http://www.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

I copied the list of licensed US architects to Word and substituted 'Lic:' with 'LIC:', the program told me it made 157 substitutions so they have that many licensed architects assuming they're all legit 18 of the licenses are expired so there down to 139.

I did the same with their US engineers 177 are licensed 17 of which are expired so they have under 300 licensed As & Es. I see they have a few people awaiting verification or are licensed in the US but work in countries Latvia so they can claim just over 300 people with valid US A or E licenses and and extra 35 with expired ones.

Of the licensed US engineers only 13 claim to be structural engineers one is Gage's octogenarian boss who got civil and structural licenses in the 1950s but worked all/most his career as an architect.

IIRC when they had all the engineers bios on one page only one SE claimed to have experience with tall buildings, he was also one of only 3 or 4 who seemed to have read the NIST report

[Bluesky]

I also look occassionally and try and see how many real architects and engineers they have. I think the closer they get to 1,000 the more often it is down. I havent been able to see it for a couple of weeks.

Of course the numbers are a typical ae911truth scam. The implication to the public is that they have 1,000 people who are qualified to practice architecture or to design building structures. But if they used the truth they would have more like 100.

[Edx]

http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/37699.gif[
.

k you really need to use imageshack link no work :(

[Edx]

I think its funny how a few of their experts believe in no plane theories and even a Judy Wood Space Beamer!!

[grandmastershek]

I'm just wondering why they are allowing Canadians to sign a petition to Congress. They are aware that Canada is not a state right?

[JamesB]

Well not yet at least, we are planning to annex it while they all are distracted watching hockey during the Olympics. Figure it should be about April before anyone notices.

[grandmastershek]

Well not yet at least, we are planning to annex it while they all are distracted watching hockey during the Olympics. Figure it should be about April before anyone notices.

I say in honor of such an event Strange Brew should be played for 24hrs on TNT.

[Macgyver1968]

You hoser!