What is your QARY worth?

[boyntonstu]

What is your QARY worth?

QARY = Quality Adjusted Remaining Years

This is apart of the formula which will be used to mandate to doctors when and on who certain procedures will be allowed and when a person does not have enough "good " years left inthem to make it worthwhile.
This will be determined by a Value Judgement of Health Board. See pagers 425-430 of HC 3200.

This is wrong on so many levels I do not even know where to begin. Ethically, who is anyone to say, how many good years I have left in me. This is a dangerous path that will backfire in a horrible way. Who in their right mind with anysort of heart at all would even want to be on the Value Judgement Board?

This is not even socialism, this is progressivism with a hint of Marxism....population control and eugenics is not quite what most are bargaining for but anyone who reads in full context the Bill will see it. They are counting on you NOT to read it……

Obamanation anyone?

QARY - bottom line

If the QARY benefit is $20,000 per year and the government chart has you dialed in at 10, don't expect to have a medical procedure allowed that costs more than $200,000.

http://allnurses-central.com/world-n...er-411578.html

[Dancing David]

And when we deny treatment to people like me because they can't get a group policy, that is what? Ethical?

Quote the bill would you?

[Peephole]

Does boyntonstu suffer from some sort of Jekyll and Hyde syndrome?

In this earlier post (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5027242&postcount=3) he's railing against the government providing people with health care.

But in this thread, it's suddenly "population control and eugenics", when the government doest not provide people with health care.

I don't get it.

Also, please quote the bill directly.

[Peephole]

Also, get your political lingo in order so we don't have to read gibberish like this:
This is not even socialism, this is progressivism with a hint of Marxism....

[boyntonstu]

IT’S ALL A DEATH PANEL: THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMACARE
By Dick Morris And Eileen McGann

08.18.2009

Published in the New York Post on August 17, 2009

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/it_all_death_panel_wVTEXt06M2RECfINJDnLIL

* In assessing whether to allow certain treatments to a given patient, medical professionals will be encouraged to apply the Quality-Adjusted Remaining Years system. Under QARY, decision-makers seek to “amortize” the cost of treatment over the remaining “quality years of life” likely for that patient.

Imagine a hip replacement costing $100,000 and the 75-year-old who needs it, a diabetic with a heart condition deemed to have just three “quality” years left. That works out to $33,333 a year — too steep! Surgery disallowed! (Unless of course, the patient has political connections . . . )

Younger, healthier patients would still get the surgery, of course. The QARY system simply aims to deny health care to the oldest and most infirm, “scientifically” condemning them to infirmity, pain and earlier death than would otherwise be their fate.

In short, ObamaCare doesn’t need to set up “death panels” to make retail decisions about ending the lives of individual patients. The whole “reform” scheme is one giant death panel in its own right.

[Peephole]

Thanks for avoiding our request for the whole section of the bill.

But hey, I guess we can be lucky we at least got some worthless tripe from Dick Morris, from two months ago.

[Upchurch]

http://allnurses-central.com/world-n...er-411578.html
A functional link. (http://allnurses-central.com/world-news-current/qary-does-bother-411578.html)

So your sources are the anonymous "912er" and...
IT’S ALL A DEATH PANEL: THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMACARE
By Dick Morris And Eileen McGann
Woops. Dick Morris. Insta-FAIL. Do not pass go. Do not collect any credibility at all.

First birtherism and now this. Is there any woo you won't buy in to?

[Whiplash]

It's funny that Dick Morris is "insta-fail" level of credibility. All because he turned on the left and started pontificating against the Clintons and in favor of the right.

But people who left the Bush administration and made all kinds of false accusations about him and his administration to sell books? HEROES DAMNIT! WORLD HEROES!

[JoeTheJuggler]

It's funny that Dick Morris is "insta-fail" level of credibility. All because he turned on the left and started pontificating against the Clintons and in favor of the right.

I have no idea who Dick Morris is, but I can at least read what Upchurch said. The reason he cited for lack of credibility is the "birtherism".

And apparently he's the only source for this latest incarnation of the Death Panel nonsense?

[sugarb]

What current formulas do insurers use to determine covering or denying treatments? At what point do individual doctors determine that it may be time to counsel patients and family members about the futility of further treatments? It isn't like these kinds of decisions aren't being made already, is it?

[Captain.Sassy]

What current formulas do insurers use to determine covering or denying treatments? At what point do individual doctors determine that it may be time to counsel patients and family members about the futility of further treatments? It isn't like these kinds of decisions aren't being made already, is it?

Exactly. Whether or not conservatives like to admit it, every system (including a pure market system) rations healthcare allocation in one way or another. I don't see anything wrong with trying to implement a standardized way of evaluating the cost effectiveness of healthcare resource allocations.

(NB: I am not saying anything about whether or not the QARY metric noted in the OP is indeed being proposed in any of the US health reform bills or commenting on the validity of this particular metric. I am just saying that there is nothing really wrong with the concept, i.e. 100,000$ might be better spent saving 10 babies' lives than keeping a comatose nonogenarian alive for another month).

[David Wong]

For those of us who utilize the Ignore function, threads like this are wonderful. When you see a guy copying and pasting Republican talking poitns, but can't supply even one ounce of his/her own thought in defending the position, you know you have nothing to gain by talking to them. You might as well tape a propaganda poster to your wall and argue with it.

[Tumblehome]

Excellent point, sugarb, and well followed up, Captain.

After that, I don't have anything to contribute, except to say that the number of threads brainlessly bashing Obama and/or healthcare reform--as if the healthcare crisis is just another political football to be kicked and spun for partisan gain--and all in the name of some tired, old, mythical concept of FREEDOM!, has been getting tiresome, and it was refreshing to see clear-headed rebuttals like yours.

[rjh01]

This does not go far enough. Instead of having old people's homes where people who cannot look after themselves go they are simply put down like animals. Very cost effective. But somehow I do not think it would ever work for the same reasons as the ideas in the OP will not work.

[Dancing David]

IT’S ALL A DEATH PANEL: THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMACARE
By Dick Morris And Eileen McGann

08.18.2009

Published in the New York Post on August 17, 2009

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/it_all_death_panel_wVTEXt06M2RECfINJDnLIL

* In assessing whether to allow certain treatments to a given patient, medical professionals will be encouraged to apply the Quality-Adjusted Remaining Years system. Under QARY, decision-makers seek to “amortize” the cost of treatment over the remaining “quality years of life” likely for that patient.

Imagine a hip replacement costing $100,000 and the 75-year-old who needs it, a diabetic with a heart condition deemed to have just three “quality” years left. That works out to $33,333 a year — too steep! Surgery disallowed! (Unless of course, the patient has political connections . . . )

Younger, healthier patients would still get the surgery, of course. The QARY system simply aims to deny health care to the oldest and most infirm, “scientifically” condemning them to infirmity, pain and earlier death than would otherwise be their fate.

In short, ObamaCare doesn’t need to set up “death panels” to make retail decisions about ending the lives of individual patients. The whole “reform” scheme is one giant death panel in its own right.

Yup, on cue. An OP-ED piece presented as facts and evidence.

How about an actual citation of the legislation, not imaginary fluff pieces?

Nope, insurance companies already figure they will deny me coverage, unless I can get a group plan.
They also cut people off coverage when they get sick already.

But please keep up the mooing and baaing from your media overlords.

[Dancing David]

It's funny that Dick Morris is "insta-fail" level of credibility. All because he turned on the left and started pontificating against the Clintons and in favor of the right.

But people who left the Bush administration and made all kinds of false accusations about him and his administration to sell books? HEROES DAMNIT! WORLD HEROES!

Funny how you just spin as well, try actualy discussing facts and figures.

Your cheerleading skills are impressive.

[Peephole]

It's funny that Dick Morris is "insta-fail" level of credibility. All because he turned on the left and started pontificating against the Clintons and in favor of the right.
I actually didn't know he used to work for Clinton, until you mentioned it.

I just know him from his hilariously wrong electoral predictions:
http://i33.tinypic.com/2nrk103.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/kedzl1.jpg

Hillary Clinton will undoubtedly lose the South Carolina primary as African-Americans line up to vote for Barack Obama. And that defeat will power her drive to the nomination.

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2008/01/23/how-clinton-will-win-the-nomination-by-losing-south-carolina/March 4th will, at worst, be a wash for Obama with his probably wins in Ohio, Rhode Island and Vermont offsetting his probable defeat in Texas. (Although in Texas’ open primary, Republicans and Independents may flock to the Dem primary to beat Hillary).

And then come a list of states almost all of which should go for Obama, including likely victories in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Indiana. By the convention, he will have more than enough delegates to overcome the expected margins Hillary may rack up among super delegates.

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/2008/02/11/obama-will-win-nomination/And from retarded commentary like this:
"The Nobel Prize is really Obama's payback for disciplining the unruly United States and taming it to be a member of the European family of nations. Europe wants to reverse the American Revolution and re-colonize us, and it sees in Obama a kindred spirit willing to do its bidding."

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200910090049Morris claims the reason Obama "delaying the decision to commit troops to Afghanistan is because he wanted [Nobel] prize"

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910130010Dick Morris smears Hillary Clinton: "you have to keep your eye on [her]", "she could possibly challenge Obama ... in 2012"

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910160055Morris claims that unlike Palin, "all of the Democratic women and other Republican women are so abnormal"

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200905060039Morris again falsely claimed Obama "gave away our economic sovereignty to Europe" by agreeing to international financial regulation

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200904090009Morris: "Those crazies in Montana who say, 'We're going to kill ATF agents because the U.N.'s going to take over' -- well, they're beginning to have a case"

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200903310038Dick Morris' self-confessed conspiracy theory: Obama "wants his plan to fail...so that he can make the case for bank nationalization and vindicate his dream of a socialist economy"

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200903230043
Dude's an idiot.

[Cleon]

It's funny that Dick Morris is "insta-fail" level of credibility. All because he turned on the left and started pontificating against the Clintons and in favor of the right.

Or it might be because he's coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs, whose attempts at political prognostication and analysis have been laughably wrong and border on Orly-level insanity.

I mean, we're talking about the guy who accused John Edwards supporters of being racist and sexist--because they didn't back Clinton or Obama. Seriously.

But you go on believing it's a "revenge" thing. That makes much more sense. :rolleyes:

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What is your QARY worth?

QARY = Quality Adjusted Remaining Years

This is apart of the formula which will be used to mandate to doctors when and on who certain procedures will be allowed and when a person does not have enough "good " years left inthem to make it worthwhile.
This will be determined by a Value Judgement of Health Board. See pagers 425-430 of HC 3200.

This is wrong on so many levels I do not even know where to begin. Ethically, who is anyone to say, how many good years I have left in me. This is a dangerous path that will backfire in a horrible way. Who in their right mind with anysort of heart at all would even want to be on the Value Judgement Board?

This is not even socialism, this is progressivism with a hint of Marxism....population control and eugenics is not quite what most are bargaining for but anyone who reads in full context the Bill will see it. They are counting on you NOT to read it……

Obamanation anyone?

QARY - bottom line

If the QARY benefit is $20,000 per year and the government chart has you dialed in at 10, don't expect to have a medical procedure allowed that costs more than $200,000.

http://allnurses-central.com/world-n...er-411578.html

I've already been hired to be on a death panel. We have our eyes on you.

[fuelair]

What is your QARY worth?

QARY = Quality Adjusted Remaining Years

This is apart of the formula which will be used to mandate to doctors when and on who certain procedures will be allowed and when a person does not have enough "good " years left inthem to make it worthwhile.
This will be determined by a Value Judgement of Health Board. See pagers 425-430 of HC 3200.

This is wrong on so many levels I do not even know where to begin. Ethically, who is anyone to say, how many good years I have left in me. This is a dangerous path that will backfire in a horrible way. Who in their right mind with anysort of heart at all would even want to be on the Value Judgement Board?

This is not even socialism, this is progressivism with a hint of Marxism....population control and eugenics is not quite what most are bargaining for but anyone who reads in full context the Bill will see it. They are counting on you NOT to read it……

Obamanation anyone?

QARY - bottom line

If the QARY benefit is $20,000 per year and the government chart has you dialed in at 10, don't expect to have a medical procedure allowed that costs more than $200,000.

http://allnurses-central.com/world-n...er-411578.html
I think your problem may be this: you seem to believe the first person you hear/see/read on a position is correct - without checking other sources. This might work well for you in many places, but most of us have a flaw that prevents us from doing that - we check multiple sources and have put out of our consideration certain sources (which depends on the field). Generally sources we tend to prefer are without an ax to grind (I like Olbermann, he's funny, but I do not take his material as news without checking other NEWS sources) - in science, they need to be respected peer reviewed journals with a proven record of honesty/accuracy/selectivity.

As far as the bill, you quote a demonstrably poor "reporter/commentator" instead of directly and precisely quoting the bill. Do you understand the distinction? Do you think we don't?:confused::):D

[Praktik]

It's funny that Dick Morris is "insta-fail" level of credibility. All because he turned on the left and started pontificating against the Clintons and in favor of the right.

It would be funny if that was the reason for "insta-fail", and not for like, not having any credibility.

[Upchurch]

It's funny that Dick Morris is "insta-fail" level of credibility. All because he turned on the left and started pontificating against the Clintons and in favor of the right.
I take it you're not familiar with Morris's track record when it comes to political analysis?