How much money is there in 911 Truth?

[Scott Sommers]

As far as I can tell, 911 Truth and We Are Change is structured like a crime gang. At the top are older adults who produce the ideology of the movment. All the work of raising money is done by young people, many of whom are still legally children still in school. Some number of these adult leaders don't do anything other than represent the ideology. Richard Gage and Steven Jones have no other job now. Does Kevin Barrett have a job?

There seem to be a very large number of adult figures in the 911 Truth movement who have no apparent source of income. Are they living off of money raised by the young members of 911 Truth groups? Hoe does the money get to them? How much money is being raised by these groups?

[dropzone]

Y'know this question came up when I wondered aloud that, if witchcraft worked, why do most of its proponents live in double-wide trailers?

Wife replied, "Maybe before they lived in single-wides."

Success is relative.

[UNLoVedRebel]

As a money-making enterprise, 9/11 truth is about as successful a your average lemonade stand. Seriously, I highly doubt any individual has netted 6 digits in the course of five years, and only a select few have netted 5.

[JAStewart]

I wouldn't struggle to believe that the Loose Change lot have made a bit.

They'd only have to sell around 5000 copies of the films (if the price was $19.99) to have a base income from the DVDs at $100k (although this doesn't cover the production cost).

But they have tonnes of merch, t-shirts, stacks o' dvds, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had broken 6 figures at some point, hence why they've kept going.

[Scott Sommers]

These are the answers I'd expect. I can't see how they have much money, either. But then how are all these people like Gage and Luke Rudkowski don't seem to have real jobs, much less Avery and those whinners. Then where are they getting money from? Do they live off women? Do they live at home? Does anyone know their home addresses?

[DGM]

These are the answers I'd expect. I can't see how they have much money, either. But then how are all these people like Gage and Luke Rudkowski don't seem to have real jobs, much less Avery and those whinners. Then where are they getting money from? Do they live off women? Do they live at home? Does anyone know their home addresses?
Gage gets $500 to speak plus airfare. (this comes from the organizers of the recent Cambridge MA "show")

[Scott Sommers]

So Gage gets $500 every time he speaks. What's that? Once a month? I'm sure the mosque didn't pay him that much and most of his speaking dates now are at churchs and the like. It seems that 911 Truth would cost money to run. It's not just speakers. The AIA convention would have cost something. This may partially explain why reports of his his presentations are that he uses poor quality equipment.

One thing I wonder about is that group of people who call themselves We Are Change. They seem very highly motivated. Only one of them has a real job. All the rest are high school students or work in menial jobs, even if they have a degree. But I wonder if much of the operational costs of 911 Truth are being taken up by cash they give directly.

[Brainster]

We Are Change is controlled by Luke Rudkowski, and given that he has provided no information on finances despite repeated questioning about it by some members, I'd suspect that some of the money donated to the group has financed trips, meals, etc. I don't know where you got the idea that only one member has a job; there are many chapters of WAC, and some of the members are probably working for a living. It was claimed at one point that WAC-Colorado had over 600 members; while I'm sure that's an exaggeration, a couple hundred would not surprise me at all. The Phoenix 9-11 Questions meetup group (http://www.meetup.com/911truthphx/) has about 200 members (although they seldom get more than a handful to show up at any of their meetings).

Whose making money? DRG supposedly had sold about 150,000 copies of New Pearl Harbor as of 2007; Steve Lemons checked with publishing sources and learned that probably netted Griffin about $1 a copy. And that's before we consider sales of his other books, speaking fees, DVDs of those speeches, etc.

But Alex Jones seems to be the one cashing in big time, although of course he's not just selling 9-11 crackpottery. Gage claims to be paying himself half of what he made as an architect, although considering that he was laid off by the firm that employed him due to the economy, he's probably also collecting unemployment.

[Horatius]

Gage claims to be paying himself half of what he made as an architect, although considering that he was laid off by the firm that employed him due to the economy, he's probably also collecting unemployment.


Maybe unemployment works differently in the US, but is that legal?

I collected unemployment twice in between University and my current jobs, and in Canada, there was a cap on how much you could earn in part-time work while on unemployment. Every dollar over that was matched by reducing your benefits by a dollar. If I had made even half of what a typical architect makes, that would have put me well over the limit, so as to have $0 in unemployment for those weeks I reported income.

[Edx]

Maybe unemployment works differently in the US, but is that legal?

I collected unemployment twice in between University and my current jobs, and in Canada, there was a cap on how much you could earn in part-time work while on unemployment. Every dollar over that was matched by reducing your benefits by a dollar. If I had made even half of what a typical architect makes, that would have put me well over the limit, so as to have $0 in unemployment for those weeks I reported income.

Works basically the same way in the UK, I wasnt able to earn over a certain amount each week or else my benefits were reduced or stopped completely.

[Comsat Angel]

You pose a very interesting question, Scott. However, I don't think it will ever be answered. The Twoofers, surprisingly for a culture that apparently wants transparency and openness in all things, do not like to provide information about budgets, accounts, financing, etc. etc. I suspect the only time we'll ever find out about their monies is when a disgruntled ex-member takes them to court and the details are exposed there - if that ever happens.

[dudalb]

Gage gets $500 to speak plus airfare. (this comes from the organizers of the recent Cambridge MA "show")

Five Hundred, though , is really not that much in the world of paid speakers.

[dudalb]

But Alex Jones seems to be the one cashing in big time, although of course he's not just selling 9-11 crackpottery. Gage claims to be paying himself half of what he made as an architect, although considering that he was laid off by the firm that employed him due to the economy, he's probably also collecting unemployment.

I think a lot of people are trying to make a living off of 9/11 Truth but failing miserably; the market is not that big and a lot of the twoofers don't really have that much spare cash to be siphoned off.
Jones seems to do fairly well, but, as you say, he peddles every kind of Conspiracy Kookery imaginable. He really is the Superstar of CT nutiness.

[jhunter1163]

I doubt that even the leading lights in the Twoofy movement are getting rich. I think I figured once that the original LC might have made half a million in two years; less taxes and divided three ways that's maybe 50-60K per buffoon per year. Not a fortune, but better than most twenty-something film school rejects. And, of course, it explains why they're still trying to repeat that success.

I think AE911T is mostly funded by donations, so Gage keeps the speaking fees. If he makes ten speeches a month, that's $5,000 plus his travel; less taxes, again not much of a living (especially if he's paying child support/alimony).

[Horatius]

Five Hundred, though , is really not that much in the world of paid speakers.



But, success is relative. Take a look at your Alex Joneses, Dylan Averys, and Richard Gages, and ask, where else could such untalented, uneducated, irrational, insane, and incompetent people make that much money?

They might not make millions, but they make enough to live, which is better than the minimum wage they'd likely be getting at any real job they could hold down for more than a few weeks.

[jhunter1163]

I think a lot of people are trying to make a living off of 9/11 Truth but failing miserably; the market is not that big and a lot of the twoofers don't really have that much spare cash to be siphoned off.
Jones seems to do fairly well, but, as you say, he peddles every kind of Conspiracy Kookery imaginable. He really is the Superstar of CT nutiness.

Steven Jones was a full professor at BYU for many years. He no doubt earned a good living there and likely still gets a pension from them. They did revoke his tenure, but there's nothing they can do about his pension. He's earned that.

And I've heard Alex Jones has family money, but nothing more specific than that.

[BasqueArch]

These are the answers I'd expect. I can't see how they have much money, either. But then how are all these people like Gage and Luke Rudkowski don't seem to have real jobs, much less Avery and those whinners. Then where are they getting money from? ...



You don't understand,
It's not the money.

Those guys are in it for this:

http://goreydetails.net/images/items/jpeg1098596653.jpg

[Slayhamlet]

You don't understand,
It's not the money.

Those guys are in it for this:

Creepy hairless cats?

[BasqueArch]

Creepy hairless cats?


No.
Creepy hairless pu**y.
But we're different.

Salma greets her jumbo-brained JFERs.

http://images.newcelebritypics.com/img/celebs/images/s/salma_hayek-2588.jpg

[Slayhamlet]

No.
Creepy hairless pu**y.
But we're different.
Salma greets her jumbo brained JFERs.

http://images.newcelebritypics.com/img/celebs/images/s/salma_hayek-2588.jpg

Yes, I understood the pun. But why did you use such a creepy looking pussy-cat? Is it supposed to represent the quality of the other kind of pussy that Truthers tend to get?

[BasqueArch]

Yes, I understood the pun. But why did you use such a creepy looking pussy-cat? Is it supposed to represent the quality of the other kind of pussy that Truthers tend to get?

There are more reasons why people believe and do irrational things than for money. Hitler , Fidel, Mao , Che didn't do it for the money, yet they were wrong. Of course after you're at the Top you don't need the money , you own the whole country and you own the people also. It doesn't matter whether one means well, one has to be right. Many people often confuse good intentions with being right.

Different desires, behavioral and biologically based motivate different people. Sex is one of these motivators. Money is not the only reason most Truthers believe and do what they do, even for many of the leaders. Gage believes he means well, yet he is wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into.-Swift

[Scott Sommers]

We Are Change is controlled by Luke Rudkowski, and given that he has provided no information on finances despite repeated questioning about it by some members, I'd suspect that some of the money donated to the group has financed trips, meals, etc. I don't know where you got the idea that only one member has a job; there are many chapters of WAC, and some of the members are probably working for a living. It was claimed at one point that WAC-Colorado had over 600 members; while I'm sure that's an exaggeration, a couple hundred would not surprise me at all. The Phoenix 9-11 Questions meetup group (http://www.meetup.com/911truthphx/) has about 200 members (although they seldom get more than a handful to show up at any of their meetings).

Whose making money? DRG supposedly had sold about 150,000 copies of New Pearl Harbor as of 2007; Steve Lemons checked with publishing sources and learned that probably netted Griffin about $1 a copy. And that's before we consider sales of his other books, speaking fees, DVDs of those speeches, etc.

But Alex Jones seems to be the one cashing in big time, although of course he's not just selling 9-11 crackpottery. Gage claims to be paying himself half of what he made as an architect, although considering that he was laid off by the firm that employed him due to the economy, he's probably also collecting unemployment.

This is not what I meant to say. There is only one member of WAC who has a decent job. All the others hold marginal jobs. Erica Nicole, despite being a university graduate, has never held a meaningful professional position and currently sells Avon. Some number of them work for Walt Disney as 'character attendents'.

There are about 50 or 60 of them whom I would call hard-core members. There used to be more, but many of them have stopped showing up to recent events. I suspect they would still be buying stuff and supporting their 'friends' financially.

If you think through this methodically, you can probably see through the lies and BS and get a workable estimate of how much money they have available. Is there any way to get ahold of statements of income or credit or information about property owned by leading figures in 911 Truth?

[Justin39640]

Yes, I understood the pun. But why did you use such a creepy looking pussy-cat? Is it supposed to represent the quality of the other kind of pussy that Truthers tend to get?

um ever see the "truth fairy"? lol
6SHtUyCD1i0
the truth needs to do some crunches lol

oh yeah don't forget about rosie

[Brainster]

This is not what I meant to say. There is only one member of WAC who has a decent job. All the others hold marginal jobs. Erica Nicole, despite being a university graduate, has never held a meaningful professional position and currently sells Avon. Some number of them work for Walt Disney as 'character attendents'.

There are about 50 or 60 of them whom I would call hard-core members. There used to be more, but many of them have stopped showing up to recent events. I suspect they would still be buying stuff and supporting their 'friends' financially.

If you think through this methodically, you can probably see through the lies and BS and get a workable estimate of how much money they have available. Is there any way to get ahold of statements of income or credit or information about property owned by leading figures in 911 Truth?

Not that I know of. A commenter on SLC was claiming to have information on Alex Jones' house, which he apparently bought for something like $250,000 in 2003 or so. I didn't see the point; it's not like a quarter of a million house is some mansion; my house was probably worth that in 2003.

I am not sure what you mean when you say that only one WAC member has a decent job, and I don't have a clue who Erica Nicole is. Is this a particular chapter of the WAC-jobs you are talking about?

[Scott Sommers]

Erica Nicola is one of the organizers of WAC demonstration in NY every September. she appears in the video that was posted of this year's 911 Truth rally in September and also the NYCCAN rally videos.

What I mean by "only one WAC member has a decent job" is pretty straightforward. If you ask them what they do for a living, most of them will tell you they are high school stduents. Others work in direct marketing or menial service industry positions. Some are university graduates, but the schools they attended are better known as party schools, but likely, you have never heard of them. One member, who is Asian, graduated from a significant school. One member claims a degree in nursing, but I do not know if she is working.

I have such detailed information for only about half the people who attended this year's rallies. The other half may be university faculty, physicians, or demolitions experts, but I doubt it.

[Scott Sommers]

So let's talk about the kind of people who attended this years WAC on 911. Most were still high school students. Some other groups appear to be HS grads who have never attended college or university. Of the ones who did, the school names you see are University of Phoenix, Staten Island University, Ithace College, SUNY - Empire State, Brooklyn College, and West Virginia University.

The largest occupational category by far is student. A number are graphic designers. I would not be surprised if many of the high quality 911 videos available were made by them. If this is so, I have to say they've done a remarkable job. Only one, possibly two, attendees were over 30.

There were two Asian, but everyone else - as far as I know - is white. despite the lack of education and professional occupation, it's a very middle class group. The level of literacy and verbal skills is very high. They may have stupid ideas, but they do not come across as brain damaged or simple. They are a highly politicized group and very aware of things - although with the naive interpretation of young students.

I have no knowledge of some large part of the people who attended. As I said before, they may be structural engineers, demolitions experts, or thermite chemists. I doubt this and presume that the ones I know are pretty representative.

[mythstifieD]

Think about the T-Shirts.

One Falser buys a provocative T-Shirt.

This will either offend or inspire those around him.

If offended, they will scold him and he may lash out by buying MORE provocative T-Shirts to engage and enrage them.

If inspired, not only he, but many of his friends will buy similar T-Shirts to wear "once an awhile".

Either way the marketing is effective.