The "Date Rape" drug just an urban legend?

[David Wong]

Now this is interesting. Despite the idea of douchey guys spiking girls drinks with "roofies" to force sex with them later being commonplace in our culture, there is apparently virtually no evidence this has ever actually happened:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6440589/Date-rape-drink-spiking-an-urban-legend.html

At least where those studies were done, anyway. Is this maybe a case where there was a couple of high-profile cases of it actually happening, and then it just took on a life of its own in pop culture (who many cop shows has this happened on?) and among women who, like the article says, simply had too much to drink?

Is there another study that counters this?

[The Man]

Now this is interesting. Despite the idea of douchey guys spiking girls drinks with "roofies" to force sex with them later being commonplace in our culture, there is apparently virtually no evidence this has ever actually happened:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6440589/Date-rape-drink-spiking-an-urban-legend.html

At least where those studies were done, anyway. Is this maybe a case where there was a couple of high-profile cases of it actually happening, and then it just took on a life of its own in pop culture (who many cop shows has this happened on?) and among women who, like the article says, simply had too much to drink?

Is there another study that counters this?


Well not having reviewed the article or “studies” yet (but I will when I have more time), I think you would be hard pressed to find a study confirming GHB or Benzodiazepines as a more prevalent “Date rape” drug (among men or women) than simply alcohol (it’s been around a lot longer) .

ETA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohypnol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug

[jasonpatterson]

A friend of my wife's who went on a trip to Mexico was offered a drink by a guy, drank it, and woke up in a hotel room on the floor naked the next day. It's happened.

ETA: She wasn't smashed at the time or anything like that either. No idea what was in it and no reason to suspect she was lying.

[Snixtor]

no reason to suspect she was lying.
Other than the humility associated with confessing to possibly doing something foolish. Though, admitting to accepting a drink from a stranger would go part way towards that anyway.

[bluesjnr]

A friend of my wife's who went on a trip to Mexico was offered a drink by a guy, drank it, and woke up in a hotel room on the floor naked the next day. It's happened.

ETA: She wasn't smashed at the time or anything like that either. No idea what was in it and no reason to suspect she was lying.

She's lying.

[bluesjnr]

I think that a lot of the time there has been a rape and some of the time we the girl regrets her actions and claims rape after. In order to remove any doubt about consent, in any case, I think the drugged claim comes into play with specific regard to this type of rape.

How does it look if she was to say, "I was very drunk and totally out of control and it was all my fault that I go into such a sorry state".

For the record, rape is wrong whatever the circumstances leading up to it are .

[rockinkt]

Urban legend??? As a former police officer - I can tell you that the use of drugs other than alcohol is not an urban legend and is occurring relatively often in Western Canada. Few cases make it to court or the newspapers.

One big one in Vancouver, Canada involved a well known producer using date rape drugs to sexually assault and then photograph women he was "casting" for projects. I can't find the link to the news story.

Try these:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/03/30/national/main178092.shtml

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2003/police-1105.html

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5068195/detail.html

The following is not proof of a date rape drug being used - but is an interesting article nonetheless.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/5068195/detail.html

Plus - don't forget that a man was charged in Vancouver, Canada because his 3 year old daughter was almost killed by drinking from a water bottle this moron had spiked with GHB to "facilitate his social life".
This happened five or six years ago and I remember the investigating officer telling me he had one of those "If the little girl dies - I wonder if I should just shoot the jerk (not the real word he used)?" moments.

[David Wong]

A friend of my wife's who went on a trip to Mexico was offered a drink by a guy, drank it, and woke up in a hotel room on the floor naked the next day. It's happened.

ETA: She wasn't smashed at the time or anything like that either. No idea what was in it and no reason to suspect she was lying.

You realize these kind of second-hand stories can't count as evidence, right? The whole concept of an urban legend is it's a collection of "a guy says his wife says her friend says it happened to her" stories.

I mean no offense by that at all, but surely you can see as a guy sitting here looking for evidence it's an urban legend, second and third-hand stories mean less than nothing.

[LTC8K6]

It's difficult to detect those drugs in the victim, isn't it?

[Skeptic Ginger]

That article sounds like the typical blame the victim crap. I have little doubt many women drink too much, get [:rule10:]faced and end up regretting the night. But that doesn't mean rohypnol does not exist nor has ever been used to rape a victim.

On the other hand, the data I see on the Net suggests it is rare that a rape occurs with rohypnol or other drugs actually being involved.

[David Wong]

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2003/police-1105.html


"Some estimates place cases of Rohypnol-induced sexual assault in the United States at 5,000 this year alone."

Ah, DEFINITELY have to see where they got that number.

[jasonpatterson]

You realize these kind of second-hand stories can't count as evidence, right? The whole concept of an urban legend is it's a collection of "a guy says his wife says her friend says it happened to her" stories.

I mean no offense by that at all, but surely you can see as a guy sitting here looking for evidence it's an urban legend, second and third-hand stories mean less than nothing.

She told me. I didn't say it was hard evidence, or that it would hold up in court, but the woman didn't have to tell me anything about it at all, and I never would have known any different.

The assumption that she is lying simply because you (the global you) think she is doesn't make any sense at all, especially in the face of the post by an officer who has dealt with it a few posts up. Would it have helped if I told you that she was with a friend and that a pair of them were offered drinks by guys, both woke up naked on the floor together?

[Puppycow]

http://www.justice.gov/dea/concern/depressants.html

GHB is quickly eliminated from the body making detection in body fluids unlikely; and its fast onset of depressant effects may render the victim with little memory of the details of the attack.

[Kevin_Lowe]

That article sounds like the typical blame the victim crap. I have little doubt many women drink too much, get [:rule10:]faced and end up regretting the night. But that doesn't mean rohypnol does not exist nor has ever been used to rape a victim.

On the other hand, the data I see on the Net suggests it is rare that a rape occurs with rohypnol or other drugs actually being involved.

Rohypnol never having been used would be an over-strong claim - you can't prove a global negative. However every report I have ever seen from hospitals has said that out of the people showing up at hospitals claiming to have been the victim of a drink spiking in the First World, the number who have actually been found to have a "date rape drug" in their system closely resembles zero.

Despite the myths, people just aren't using "date rape drugs" on women in numbers significant enough to show up. Verified case studies are vanishingly rare.

That doesn't rule out the possibility of drinks being spiked with vodka. However it does seem highly likely that the majority of suspected drink spikings are the result of purely voluntary over-consumption of recreational substances combined with paranoia about date rape drugs.

[Puppycow]

Although, it seems unlikely that researchers wouldn't know this. (What I noted in post #13, that is)

Are they not detecting the drug because it is too quickly eliminated to detect, or would it have been detected if it had indeed been used? It would be very silly if they were using methods that wouldn't work in principle.

[thought_fugitive]

Other than the humility associated with confessing to possibly doing something foolish. Though, admitting to accepting a drink from a stranger would go part way towards that anyway.

In Mexico of all places! I wonder how the results of this study will affect the market value of my secret Aqua Dots supply.

With regards to the OP, certainly an extremely interesting article. I don't know anything else on this matter, but on the article's own accord there's really nothing conclusive, at least not enough to say that "there is apparently virtually no evidence this has ever actually happened." (Unless, of course, you were referring to the notion of it being commonplace. I may be misreading.)

I don't quite understand which studies are used to justify the conclusions presented by the reporter, and this is important because a study of "more than 200 students at universities in London and south east England" is an absurdly inadequate sample. But, and I may be misreading again, it looks like the focal study was a survey assessing the eminence of peoples' fear of such drugs. That it's an "urban legend" is reached as the worry of those surveyed is compared with real blood studies which suggest those worries are obscenely disproportionate to the actual risk.

As Dr Burgess observes, it is not scientific evidence which keeps the drug rape myth alive but the fact that it serves so many useful functions.

[Kevin_Lowe]

The GHB wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid) says that GHB is "difficult to detect in urine after a day". From that I infer that it's not so difficult to detect within 24 hours that you'd expect a ~100% false negative rate.

[Snixtor]

That it's an "urban legend" is reached as the worry of those surveyed is compared with real blood studies which suggest those worries are obscenely disproportionate to the actual risk.
Indeed, classification as an urban legend does not suggest that it doesn't happen, but that peoples associated fears are mis-representative of the situation.

[jasonpatterson]

there is apparently virtually no evidence this has ever actually happened


What I objected to wasn't that it was less common than is perceived, that's pretty much a fact concerning just about any negative interpersonal interaction, how many kids are kidnapped versus the perception of its frequency, for instance. Instead I objected to the quoted bit above. The article you posted doesn't even begin to say this, only that it was not a common occurrence.

[commandlinegamer]

Lonely Planet or Rough Guide advises people travelling on certain night-trains in Europe to beware after some have been offered spiked orange juice and woken up the next day having been robbed.

[thought_fugitive]

Post #7: Interesting input, rockinkt. I appreciate those links, it helps to know better the rather disgusting nature of the drugs and the crimes, and that indeed the crimes do occur. Mentioned in one of your links is that the GBH chemical was attainable somewhat easily through certain retailers. Considering that alongside the questions raised by Puppycow, I think the title and premise of the OP might be a poor choice.

What I think would be helpful to know is where the gray area might lie for would-be rapists, and if there's any way to analyze how predatory individuals may or may not behave differently with access to GBH etc. Or if there's any real way to approximate some likelihood of things like people who would utilize a drug to take advantage of someone, but wouldn't under other circumstances.

Basically, whether or not there's a substantial divergence in the nature of the pathologies which might account for how a predator could behave, or whether or not there'd be a more effective precautionary system for potential date-rape targets which places more concern on defending yourself against the more likely risks.

[thought_fugitive]

"Some estimates place cases of Rohypnol-induced sexual assault in the United States at 5,000 this year alone."

Ah, DEFINITELY have to see where they got that number.

That particular article doesn't seem to be too helpful... it looks like a school newspaper echoing the faculty's wishes for their students to be cautious and safe. Stating that some estimates place the number of cases at 5,000 says nothing about how the figure was reached or how the numbers of other estimates compare. A range would have been far more helpful from an analytical standpoint.

Not only that, the school brought forth the advisory in response to two cases, which compared to the fact that they're in an area with tens and tens of thousands of young adults, if not more, who regularly engage in social activities, it seems like it might be right in line with what's being discussed in this thread.

However, I think skeptigirl raises an important point and the article in the OP seems to be somewhat dismissive of the topic which has got me curious about some other things.

Nick Ross, chair of the Jill Dando Institute of Crime Science, commented: "There is no evidence of widespread use of hypnotics in sexual assault, let alone Rohypnol, despite many attempts to prove the contrary.

"During thousands of blood and alcohol tests lots of judgement-impairing compounds were discovered, but they were mostly street drugs or prescription pharmaceuticals taken by the victims themselves, and above all alcohol was the common theme.

"As Dr Burgess observes, it is not scientific evidence which keeps the drug rape myth alive but the fact that it serves so many useful functions."

Are they suggesting that the myth behind drug rape is being misused as an attributed excuse for behavior people don't want to take responsibility for? But doesn't the claim, even when made in error, that one was the victim of a drug rape still imply the belief that they were raped? Do the people questioned in the survey who claim to have been or have known a victim of a drug spiking believe also that they're victim of rape or assault?

[Puppycow]

The GHB wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid) says that GHB is "difficult to detect in urine after a day". From that I infer that it's not so difficult to detect within 24 hours that you'd expect a ~100% false negative rate.
Right. I checked the journal it was published in and it appears to be a peer-reviewed journal, so it seems unlikely that such an obvious methodological shortcoming could be overlooked.
Here is their article review policy:
http://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_journals/crimin/revpol.html

So, I think we should probably accept these study results as valid unless there is compelling evidence not to.

[River]

Definitely not an urban legend. A guy I knew from highschool went to jail for agravated assault, rape and sodomy for doing that to more than one person. I cant begin to describe the.... anger and sickness I feel when I think about that guy. Watch your drinks (dont leave them unattended) and never accept them from people you dont know. Especially when at clubs or bars.

[Dancing David]

Now this is interesting. Despite the idea of douchey guys spiking girls drinks with "roofies" to force sex with them later being commonplace in our culture, there is apparently virtually no evidence this has ever actually happened:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6440589/Date-rape-drink-spiking-an-urban-legend.html

At least where those studies were done, anyway. Is this maybe a case where there was a couple of high-profile cases of it actually happening, and then it just took on a life of its own in pop culture (who many cop shows has this happened on?) and among women who, like the article says, simply had too much to drink?

Is there another study that counters this?

Funny thing that, the article mentions one small study and then goes on to quote a person citing unsourced material.

Very bad, no actual publications mentioned by name.

[Dancing David]

Right. I checked the journal it was published in and it appears to be a peer-reviewed journal, so it seems unlikely that such an obvious methodological shortcoming could be overlooked.
Here is their article review policy:
http://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_journals/crimin/revpol.html

So, I think we should probably accept these study results as valid unless there is compelling evidence not to.

When you show us the methodlogy, it can be frightening at times. Someone pointed out a real problem, if GBH is metabolized that quickley then there is no way they could detect it, the victim reports it when, then they study the victims how much longer?

[Dancing David]

That particular article doesn't seem to be too helpful... it looks like a school newspaper echoing the faculty's wishes for their students to be cautious and safe. Stating that some estimates place the number of cases at 5,000 says nothing about how the figure was reached or how the numbers of other estimates compare. A range would have been far more helpful from an analytical standpoint.

Not only that, the school brought forth the advisory in response to two cases, which compared to the fact that they're in an area with tens and tens of thousands of young adults, if not more, who regularly engage in social activities, it seems like it might be right in line with what's being discussed in this thread.

However, I think skeptigirl raises an important point and the article in the OP seems to be somewhat dismissive of the topic which has got me curious about some other things.



Are they suggesting that the myth behind drug rape is being misused as an attributed excuse for behavior people don't want to take responsibility for? But doesn't the claim, even when made in error, that one was the victim of a drug rape still imply the belief that they were raped? Do the people questioned in the survey who claim to have been or have known a victim of a drug spiking believe also that they're victim of rape or assault?

And you quoted the part that is completely unsourced, not related to the research topic at all but the uncited and unsourced opinion of someone. Which is truly an example of bait and switch.

This part here

Nick Ross, chair of the Jill Dando Institute of Crime Science, commented: "There is no evidence of widespread use of hypnotics in sexual assault, let alone Rohypnol, despite many attempts to prove the contrary.

"During thousands of blood and alcohol tests lots of judgement-impairing compounds were discovered, but they were mostly street drugs or prescription pharmaceuticals taken by the victims themselves, and above all alcohol was the common theme.

Totally unsourced, no citations, no data, no evidence.


"As Dr Burgess observes, it is not scientific evidence which keeps the drug rape myth alive but the fact that it serves so many useful functions."

[Dancing David]

Lonely Planet or Rough Guide advises people travelling on certain night-trains in Europe to beware after some have been offered spiked orange juice and woken up the next day having been robbed.

This happens lots of places.

[The Man]

Funny thing that, the article mentions one small study and then goes on to quote a person citing unsourced material.

Very bad, no actual publications mentioned by name.

Having finally read the article I agree with Dancing David on this.


From the Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine Volume 12, Issue 4, August 2005, Pages 175-186. Given as referance 6 in the link


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug#cite_note-4



http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WHN-4GR8H68-2&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F2005&_rdoc=2&_fmt=high&_orig=browse&_srch=doc-info(%23toc%236855%232005%23999879995%23602877%23F LA%23display%23Volume)&_cdi=6855&_sort=d&_docanchor=&_ct=16&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c44180a2cb07fba439d76d1a9eff3886


In 21 cases (2%), a sedative or disinhibiting drug was detected which had not been admitted and could therefore be an instance of deliberate spiking. This included three cases in which complainants were allegedly given Ecstasy (MDMA) without their knowledge. Other drugs detected included gammahydroxybutyrate (GHB) and the benzodiazepine drugs diazepam and temazepam. Another nine cases (1%) involved the complainant being either given or forced to ingest pharmaceutical tablets or an illicit drug.



ETA:

For more info on detection (refferance 9 from the wiki page)

"Analytical developments in toxicological investigation of drug-facilitated sexual assault". Analytical and bioanalytical chemistry. 376 (8): 1192–7.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/yumw9rl9f6l8t9u1/fulltext.pdf

[The Central Scrutinizer]

A friend of my wife's who went on a trip to Mexico was offered a drink by a guy, drank it, and woke up in a hotel room on the floor naked the next day. It's happened.

ETA: She wasn't smashed at the time or anything like that either. No idea what was in it and no reason to suspect she was lying.

Were her kidneys missing?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Would it have helped if I told you that she was with a friend and that a pair of them were offered drinks by guys, both woke up naked on the floor together?

Chick on chick action?

[bluesjnr]

Definitely not an urban legend. A guy I knew from highschool went to jail for agravated assault, rape and sodomy for doing that to more than one person. I cant begin to describe the.... anger and sickness I feel when I think about that guy. Watch your drinks (dont leave them unattended) and never accept them from people you dont know. Especially when at clubs or bars.

Give us his name and the time frame, where these (plural) assaults took place etc. Shouldn't be a problem as he would have been reported on in the press. Bet you can't or won't.

[bluesjnr]

And my bold illustrates the extent of the deceit;

In 21 cases (2%), a sedative or disinhibiting drug was detected which had not been admitted and could therefore be an instance of deliberate spiking. This included three cases in which complainants were allegedly given Ecstasy (MDMA) without their knowledge. Other drugs detected included gammahydroxybutyrate (GHB) and the benzodiazepine drugs diazepam and temazepam. Another nine cases (1%) involved the complainant being either given or forced to ingest pharmaceutical tablets or an illicit drug.

[NoZed Avenger]

And my bold illustrates the extent of the deceit;

That is an unjustified assumption.

"Not admitted" in medical parlance simply meant they did not mention the drug, not that it was an "admission" in the everyday sense.

As the context shows, that phrase does not necessarily mean they took any drugs voluntarily -- it means that either they took it and omitted the information, or that they were given something they were not aware of and so *could not* tell the interviewer about it. That is why it continues in stating the cases "could therefore be an instance of deliberate spiking."

So some or all of the drugs *might* have been taken voluntarily, but that conclusion cannot be drawn - it is only a possibility.

[Dancing David]

Now there are cases of course where people ingest more alcohol than they should or use substances that they shouldn't. This does not exclude it happening because someone slip 'em a Mickey.

GBH has other problems as well, some toxic ODs have occured in a town near mine. Fortunately they were taken to the ED.

[The Man]

And my bold illustrates the extent of the deceit;

Just what extent would that be? That deceit is possible when questioning people? Perhaps there is some other extent that you think your bolding illustrates?

[NoZed Avenger]

I know one young woman who was with some friends and was, IMO, given something. I have no idea what, but she had only been at the place a short time and had, according to mutual friends who were with her, only 1 drink. She had barely arrived. I spoke to her and she was incoherent. She had been talking to a guy and left her drink for a minute. The guy disappeared when her friends came over and started looking concerned. We hustled her to a friend's place; they said she had gotten tipsy once or twice in the past, but had never looked anything like she did then.

No real proof of anything, but I personally am convinced she had been given *something*. I just don't know what.

[Sunray Breaker]

I can say for certain that at least 3 of my lady friends have been drugged at the club. I think I myself was once too. I had only two drinks and felt completely sloshed (Mind you, I'm a borderline alcoholic, or in denial, you decide). I fell over a coffee table and threw up all over the doorstep. Luckily I had followed some friends druing this time to a house party where I passed out almost instantly after lying down.

I can tell you also that GHB during the early 2000's (and could still be going on for all I know) was popular among the rave scene as a recreational drug in small doses. So it's definitely real.

[Marduk]

I was the victim of a spiked drink once, it was some kind of sedative and it was administered to me without my knowledge at a gay bar. It made me lethargic and I could hardly keep my eyes open. I had only had two pints of non export lager. The guy who bought me the drink seeing me sleepy offered to let me crash at his place just around the corner, however when I am tired I dont walk to some unknown persons house for a lie down, see it didnt affect my reasoning just my ability to stay conscious. When I recovered enough to leave under my own steam (by sitting in the pub garden for five hours in the fresh air) I didn't think to report anything, I just went home.
Really the guy must have been messed up though, back in those days I was easy and I thought he was cute, why'd he bother trying it that way when he could have just asked
;)
so apart from the fact that these types of drugs are hard to detect, how many people dont bother to report

[JoeTheJuggler]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/6440589/Date-rape-drink-spiking-an-urban-legend.html
From the article:
A study of more than 200 students revealed many wrongly blamed the effects of a "bad night out" on date-rape drugs, when they had just drunk excessively.
Why is alcohol not considered a "date-rape drug"?

Is there another study that counters this?
I'm not sure how a study can ascertain this. It seems to me more about a question of how accurate reporting of incidents are.

[neltana]

Determining the prevalence of drugging for the purposes of rape or sexual assault is a difficult business. You have issues of under-reporting, false reporting and incomplete reporting to deal with.

However, some in this thread seem to be implying that drugged rapings are rare...so rare that it is difficult to turn up confirmed cases. I know rockint provided some links. Here are some others:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8009079.stm
http://www.ktvu.com/news/21243599/detail.html
http://www.theweeklyvice.com/2009/10/james-edwards-lured-his-child-porn.html

So, this at least establishes that it happens, people are charged with it, and they go to jail. It is not "rare" in the way I understand the term.... It probably isn't "common" in the way I understand the term either, but that doesn't make it an urban legend in my opinion.

[BenBurch]

Midazolam

[Wudang]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17389079?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed _ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=9

Suggesting a method to extend the detection period for GHB past 12 hours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10845178

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10369321?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
Law enforcement agencies, emergency rooms, and rape crisis centers across the U.S. were offered the opportunity to submit urine samples collected from victims of alleged sexual assault, where drug use was suspected........
48 for GHB,

[Furcifer]

I can say for certain that at least 3 of my lady friends have been drugged at the club. I think I myself was once too. I had only two drinks and felt completely sloshed (Mind you, I'm a borderline alcoholic, or in denial, you decide). I fell over a coffee table and threw up all over the doorstep. Luckily I had followed some friends during this time to a house party where I passed out almost instantly after lying down.

I can tell you also that GHB during the early 2000's (and could still be going on for all I know) was popular among the rave scene as a recreational drug in small doses. So it's definitely real.

For a short while GHB was available here as a body building supplement. I tried some and remember it tasted like crushed aspirin and rock salt. It's horrible. I was in Vancouver when that little girl got ahold of a bottle and ingested some. It was a topic of conversation for a few days and I talked with several people that use it recreationaly. They laughed off the notion it could be used as a daterape drug. You'd have to be very intoxicated to not notice your drink suddenly tastes like rock salt and aspirin. The effects aren't immediate either, it apparently takes about a half hour to "hit" you.

I'm not saying it hasn't been tried, but from what I gather GHB isn't a very good way of going about drugging someone. Especially in a club like setting where most of these allegations occur. Walking out of a bar with a passed out girl is going to raise eyebrows. Especially with her friends. It just doesn't make sense.

On the other hand, a 100 lb girl goes out and drinks 8 rum and cokes in 3 hours, dances her butt off, smokes a joint behind the bar, then wakes up not remembering much has a tendency to say "Oh, my god I don't remember anything, I must have been drugged" It's almost fashionable to blame a black out on being drugged. Be the unfortunate guy who buys her the last drink and offers to take her home and you could be in a world of hurt.

If you talk to people I think you will find many of the clubbers claim to have been drugged at some time or another. Well they claim to "think" they might have been drugged. Not to center you out Sunray, but most of them tend to be rather heavy drinkers that "only had a few". My one buddy told me a story about a time he thought he may have been drugged. He claimed he only had two drinks.I know this guy, he's never had only two drinks. He had two drinks with breakfast, on Mother's day ;)

[taiyo]

Anyone who works in lab testing (I do) will back up the fact that the vast majority of people who are absolutely convinced they're been drugged only test positive for alcohol, even when they're tested pretty quickly, with the best methods. It does happen, but sadly because so many 'cases' turn out to be drunken mistakes, the few genuine victims struggle to get anyone to take them seriously and get accused of boozing or just lying... It's sad - for the genuine victims but also for all those who get p*ssed, go off with some stranger, and spend the rest of their lives convinced they're a rape victim.

Edit - for what it's worth, a friend of mine drank a drink containing rohypnol, which had been intended for someone else (the police said the intention was probably robbery, not sexual assault). The same friend (male) was previously raped on the street while sober, and it took him a year and a half to tell anyone.

[shawmutt]

There is no such things as rape drugs...

...now finish your beer.

[daenku32]

There is no such things as rape drugs...

...now finish your beer.

If you get hold of some Ambien, that'll do it too.

[blutoski]

Why is alcohol not considered a "date-rape drug"?

I think that the key element of the 'date rape drug' is that it is introduced to food or beverage without the victim's knowledge.

Another poster has mentioned that he feels it would be easy to detect, but I think it's something that may vary with the type of drink. As a Canadian ex-bartender, just off the top of my head... I think Clamato is so vile to begin with that a Caesar is capable of hiding the taste of buffalo faeces, so a bitter or salty drug should be a snap.

I suppose alcohol could be rendered hard to detect in certain drinks, as well, but the victims don't seem to be reporting this, so it doesn't get the reputation.

[cbish]

My story:
About a year ago, my wife & I abandonded our children and went to Reno over night. We arrived early evening, gamed a little and had dinner. After dinner, I was tired so I went to the room (10:00 pm). My wife stayed in the casino and played Craps. Less than an hour later, I was awaken by my wife struggling to get in the door. She was absolutely annililated. The next day she was very, very ill and had no recollection of anything after dinner.

Now, this is not abnormal behavior for my wife. But, what I found curious was that she was gone less than an hour. It raised my suspicions. Later, my wife said she was playing craps, had one glass of wine, did leave the wine at the table and went to the restroom, and returned to the game & drink.

We told the story the next day to a friend or ours who is a Deputy District Attorney. She immediately said GHB. She wanted to know if we wanted my wife tested but we opted out. She said it is detectable up to 48 hrs and we were at about that.

Something happened.

[Archangel]

My story:

We told the story the next day to a friend or ours who is a Deputy District Attorney. She immediately said GHB. She wanted to know if we wanted my wife tested but we opted out. She said it is detectable up to 48 hrs and we were at about that.

Something happened.

Then why opt out of the test?
If your wife was actually drugged and it happened at a casino there'd be footage of the person who did it.

sorry, but the entire story doesn't pass the sniff test.

[Fiona]

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:qp2rYu0ExtsJ:drugs.homeoffice.gov.uk/324026/461229/ACMD_DFSA_Report__FINAL___13.pdf+date+rape+drug+go vernment+uk&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjgi9g_TH-hB0CthdNKMER8y5icr4pWIo8JR6M_lux7FIDzVjNLkGgGvAsI_ V9wbMd6J3ehPyqitI_iS5N1PL8U-PY86GuiyISeXRRk78Loj0ohlgSsPkr-x2TH-yp08_DqKeJb&sig=AFQjCNFpUds4brvoPUtt6XQERQLT6zabyA


On the police study of 120 mentioned above

A range of benzodiazepines and other central nervous system
depressants were identified in the samples examined. In 21 instances,
their presence could not be explained by voluntary use. The drugs

<snip>There were a further 9 instances where the victim was allegedly
offered, or forced to ingest, a drug.


4.4.1 In a further 11 instances, the covert administration of drugs could not
be eliminated due to lack of clarity in circumstantial information.


It also says Although in 119 out of 120 cases alcohol had allegedly been taken
before the offence, it could be detected in only 62 (52%) instances.

I would think if they couldn't find alcohol which the person reported having drunk that might make the detection of any other drug a little less certain

[Fiona]

For a short while GHB was available here as a body building supplement. I tried some and remember it tasted like crushed aspirin and rock salt. It's horrible. I was in Vancouver when that little girl got ahold of a bottle and ingested some. It was a topic of conversation for a few days and I talked with several people that use it recreationaly. They laughed off the notion it could be used as a daterape drug. You'd have to be very intoxicated to not notice your drink suddenly tastes like rock salt and aspirin. The effects aren't immediate either, it apparently takes about a half hour to "hit" you.

As I understand it the manufacturers have deliberately added stuff to make it detectable. However if it is not obtained legally that may not be the case

I'm not saying it hasn't been tried, but from what I gather GHB isn't a very good way of going about drugging someone. Especially in a club like setting where most of these allegations occur. Walking out of a bar with a passed out girl is going to raise eyebrows. Especially with her friends. It just doesn't make sense.

Life must be very different where you live

On the other hand, a 100 lb girl goes out and drinks 8 rum and cokes in 3 hours, dances her butt off, smokes a joint behind the bar, then wakes up not remembering much has a tendency to say "Oh, my god I don't remember anything, I must have been drugged"

Do you have evidence for that? It is entirely contrary to my experience

It's almost fashionable to blame a black out on being drugged. Be the unfortunate guy who buys her the last drink and offers to take her home and you could be in a world of hurt.

Evidence please

If you talk to people I think you will find many of the clubbers claim to have been drugged at some time or another. Well they claim to "think" they might have been drugged. Not to center you out Sunray, but most of them tend to be rather heavy drinkers that "only had a few". My one buddy told me a story about a time he thought he may have been drugged. He claimed he only had two drinks.I know this guy, he's never had only two drinks. He had two drinks with breakfast, on Mother's day ;)

It seems a little curious that people who regularly get stoshious would decide to be embarrassed by it now and again. It just might be that their experience with alcohol makes them more able to tell when something else has happened. Or maybe not. I am just really glad I don't live where you do

[quadraginta]

Is it time for this, yet?

vrbAyHVVYgI

[cbish]

Then why opt out of the test?
If your wife was actually drugged and it happened at a casino there'd be footage of the person who did it.

sorry, but the entire story doesn't pass the sniff test.
We didn't do it because was probably pass the time of detecting anything. Other than possibly being drugged, nothing else happened. Seriously, what recourse did we really have? We just thought it was suspicious, that's all. I don't know if she was drugged or not. I don't care if it passes your test or not.