Sending the Jehovah's Witnesses packing

[CSSMariner]

I had two of that "Kingdon Hall" witnessing crowd show up uninvited at my front door again Saturday. I pretended to have been rousted from a deep sleep and opened my door nude while rubbing my eyes and yawning. That seemed to work. Does anyone have any more creative ideas if another pair returns?

Does anyone have a clever method of tossing a stick into the bicycle spokes of the pedaling profits out of Utah when they come by? I am tired of being evangelized at my front door.

[c4ts]

Buy a neon green long haired wig. When the missionaries come a knockin', put on the wig and speak in falsetto. Affectionately call to someone named "Biff" and mention things like missing leather bondage thongs and combat assault rifles. If they continue to persist, explain that you don't speak English and shout gibberish at the missionaries.

[shemp]

My father likes to argue with them while jabbing his finger at them and acting menacing, forcing them to back away. He doesn't stop till they get to the street.

I have never had the "pleasure" of their visits. I did get a couple of old ladies from some fundamentalist church a few years back. I simply acted menacing and used a few choice words like "deranged," "liars," and "scum," and they hopped back in their car and left. I have not been bothered since. Perhaps word gets around.

[shemp]

Originally posted by c4ts
Buy a neon green long haired wig. When the missionaries come a knockin', put on the wig and speak in falsetto. Affectionately call to someone named "Biff" and mention things like missing leather bondage thongs and combat assault rifles. If they continue to persist, explain that you don't speak English and shout gibberish at the missionaries.

Do you consider this to be unusual behavior? I do this stuff all the time, especially when I'm with my imaginary friends.

this is what I do...

I tell them I'm an atheist, and think the notion of invisible beings with omniscient powers is silly. I tell them I don't want to be preached to, but I'm open to discussion on the subject of theism in general.

Very often they will leave. There was one group with a really cute woman... but that didn't go anywhere of course. Nowhere but out the door.

Be nice to 'em if they don't get on your nerves... represent atheism well. You probably won't counteract the brainwashing but it's worth a try, right?

[c4ts]

Originally posted by shemp


Do you consider this to be unusual behavior? I do this stuff all the time, especially when I'm with my imaginary friends.

Yes, but this is Salt Lake here. Act like that and people will just assume you're from Park City (or Mars). Fortunately, unusual behavior seems to work as a ward against LDS members. I got to see the ugly picture of Jesus in Castle Mormon without a single missionary bothering me. I dyed my hair bright orange and convinced my friend to dress like a hare krishna (he carried a tambourine and wore a bedsheet), and NOBODY wanted to go near either of us. The mural was so bad, it wasn't even worth the effort. :(

[CSSMariner]

I went through Salt Lake City three times in December. On the way from Fort Lauderdale to Alaska for a project, once again on the way from Alaska to San Diego for another project, and again on the way back from San Diego to Fort Lauderdale. In Salt Lake City I was waiting for the flight and noticed a drop dead gorgeous sweet young thing of about college age reading a book.

There were two open seats, one on each side of her, so I grabbed one before some other lecherous old bastard like me took it. Then a clean looking young lad about her age sat down and they were obviously friends. I struck up a conversation with the two of them while admiring the lady as unobtrusively as possible.

I discovered that both of them were headed home to Dallas, which was the next stop on the way to Florida, and both of them were on the way from Idaho. It turned out that both were LDS and were in school at a LDS operation in Idaho. I said I thought only zonked-out retreatists lived in the woods of Idaho and they pretty much agreed. I asked about the pedaling prophet bit, and they said both of them also did their duty at the pedals early in their novice years, and I was floored. Now if she had shown up at my front door, I would have had to listen just to be allowed to look at her for as long as she wanted to stay.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by CSSMariner
I went through Salt Lake City three times in December. On the way from Fort Lauderdale to Alaska for a project, once again on the way from Alaska to San Diego for another project, and again on the way back from San Diego to Fort Lauderdale. In Salt Lake City I was waiting for the flight and noticed a drop dead gorgeous sweet young thing of about college age reading a book.

There were two open seats, one on each side of her, so I grabbed one before some other lecherous old bastard like me took it. Then a clean looking young lad about her age sat down and they were obviously friends. I struck up a conversation with the two of them while admiring the lady as unobtrusively as possible.

I discovered that both of them were headed home to Dallas, which was the next stop on the way to Florida, and both of them were on the way from Idaho. It turned out that both were LDS and were in school at a LDS operation in Idaho. I said I thought only zonked-out retreatists lived in the woods of Idaho and they pretty much agreed. I asked about the pedaling prophet bit, and they said both of them also did their duty at the pedals early in their novice years, and I was floored. Now if she had shown up at my front door, I would have had to listen just to be allowed to look at her for as long as she wanted to stay.

But that never acutally happens, does it? It's always the blonde guy with the crue cut and the funny upturned nose.

[CSSMariner]

I have never had one, or for that matter two, of the LDS whatever they are called stop by, but the ones I do see on the streets in South Florida are always dudes. I wonder where they send the cuties????? Not here, I suppose they are afraid some recruiter for a South American drug lord or a Middle East sheik will snatch them off the street and export them.

All the lads are always trim, which I suppose is normal enough from pedaling that nefarious volume (bible) around all the time. I was trim too when I was pedaling a hundred miles a week, then I was hit by a woman driver in a rush to get to work, and the rest is history.

[BroodingSkill]

I just don't answer the door. That seems to work fine for me, after a while they take the hint and just stop coming.

[CSSMariner]

I see it as a challenge and good sport. Baiting those folks is just plain fun.

[shemp]

Of course, there's another tactic. Try to convert them to some other religion. Keep a copy of the Koran or the Torah around, or if you're adventurous, Anton LaVey's "The Satanic Bible." Study just enough so that you sound legit when you try to convert them.

[Nova Land]

Originally posted by CSSMariner
I had two of that "Kingdon Hall" witnessing crowd show up uninvited at my front door again Saturday. I pretended to have been rousted from a deep sleep and opened my door nude while rubbing my eyes and yawning. That seemed to work. Does anyone have any more creative ideas if another pair returns?

...I am tired of being evangelized at my front door. I actually enjoy talking with JWs, although they are largely interested in sticking to certain rehearsed scripts and the conversations are more interesting to me if I can get them past those.

I also enjoy conversations with Mormons. My neighbors a couple years back were Mormons, and I enjoyed talking with them and learning more about their beliefs. They had some cartoon videos (screenplays by Orson Scott Card!) which had animated versions of stories from the Book of Mormon, and I enjoyed borrowing and watching some of these, as well as a cartoon about the life of Joseph Smith.

I could probably be more helpful to you if your question were how to have an enjoyable conversation with such people. However, to the question of how to get rid of them, on the (frequent) occasions when I have not had time for talking to such people I have found the following technique useful. What I do is say, "I'm sorry, I don't have time to talk with you about this now."

That method may not work well for you, since it implies you are willing to talk another time. JWs that you say that to may then ask when a good time to return would be, or simply return at a later date to see if you are able to talk then. So, for the missionary types I have no interest in talking with, I use a different method: I say to them, "No, I have no interest in talking about this with you."

JWs make a list of places to return to. For example, if the person has taken literature and expressed a willingness to talk again, or if the person was not home when they came by, they will make a note of this to remind them to make a follow-up call. If you politely but clearly express that you are not interested in being visited again, most that I have encountered will put you on their "don't return to" list.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Nova Land
I actually enjoy talking with JWs, although they are largely interested in sticking to certain rehearsed scripts and the conversations are more interesting to me if I can get them past those.

I also enjoy conversations with Mormons. My neighbors a couple years back were Mormons, and I enjoyed talking with them and learning more about their beliefs. They had some cartoon videos (screenplays by Orson Scott Card!) which had animated versions of stories from the Book of Mormon, and I enjoyed borrowing and watching some of these, as well as a cartoon about the life of Joseph Smith.

I could probably be more helpful to you if your question were how to have an enjoyable conversation with such people. However, to the question of how to get rid of them, on the (frequent) occasions when I have not had time for talking to such people I have found the following technique useful. What I do is say, "I'm sorry, I don't have time to talk with you about this now."

That method may not work well for you, since it implies you are willing to talk another time. JWs that you say that to may then ask when a good time to return would be, or simply return at a later date to see if you are able to talk then. So, for the missionary types I have no interest in talking with, I use a different method: I say to them, "No, I have no interest in talking about this with you."

JWs make a list of places to return to. For example, if the person has taken literature and expressed a willingness to talk again, or if the person was not home when they came by, they will make a note of this to remind them to make a follow-up call. If you politely but clearly express that you are not interested in being visited again, most that I have encountered will put you on their "don't return to" list.


That's no fun! :cool:

[MRC_Hans]

I dont think we have Mormons here in Denmark, but we do have a (dwindling) supply of JW. I never say anything to them, except "no thanks". That soon sends them away (they are not very aggressive here; years ago, somebody sent the police at them, so they watch their actions).

I once had the following conversation with a couple of young and actually rather good-loking ladies:

JW YL: "Good afternoon, would you like to hear about peace on Eath and among humans?"

Me: "No, thanks"

JW YL: "Well, how would you like an eternal life in paradisic surroundings?"

Me: "No, thanks"

JW YL: "Ehhh -- mmmm OK, have a nice day"

Me: "Thanks"(Closes door)

Thing is, those answers are designed to open a discussion, the second one is designed as a sure-fire bait, so when it fails, they have nowhere to go, except away.

Hans

[Fade]

Ask them in for coffee and some casual sex.

[Ms.Tirius]

The JWs around here tend to show up in the late spring or early summer, always well dressed, always boys in their late teens. I usually tell them I'm a Satanist, and that if they do not promptly remove themselves from my property, I will call upon the powers of Satan to have them destroyed. This usually sends them on their way, occassionally I will encounter a more persistent JW, in which case I start mumbling prayers backwards. That does the trick.

[jimlintott]

I usually try to talk them into giving me their pamphlets for free. Sometimes they want to charge for them. I hope to cause them economic ruin, twelve cents at a time.

I have this fantasy of printing some atheist pamphlets and knocking on the door of the Kingdom Hall during services and asking if they would like to talk about the non-existence of the lord.

[ShottleBop]

We live a half-mile from a JW Kingdom Hall. On the few occasions that someone has come to our door, a simple: "No thanks, I am happy with my current beliefs," has been enough to have them excuse themselves.

Many years ago, in a different house, we had several very pleasant meetings with a couple of JW missionaries. They ended abruptly when I told the "closer" they had brought in that I thought that Mary had lied about the cause of her pregnancy.

[Ignatius]

A few weeks ago I received an email at work from my wife telling me that there were some people at our door asking if we would like to talk about Jesus. My wife said "no" and they left.

I was absolutely crushed. "Did you ask them to come back later?!" I asked (she knows I live for this kind of thing).

"No, I didn't even think of it until they left", she replied.

I really wonder how they would react when someone leaps to their feet excitedly and says "By all means! Come in, come in! Can I get you anything to drink? Make yourself at home!" while rushing around, beside myself, grinning from ear to ear and rubbing my hands together.

[justsaygnosis]

I had a couple of mormon's come by one sunday somewhere around 1996. When I opened the front door my dogs went outside to see who was there. One's a chocolate lab and the other a yellow lab, both curiously friendly.
They went about 90 pounds apiece so the younger, (I learned the mormon's travel with an elder and a learner, much like the jedi),started backing off the front porch.
I assured him the dogs had been trained on jehovah witnesses so he had nothing to worry about so long as he didn't pull any pamphlets out of his knapsack.
They never came back.
As for JW's I find that if I invite them to come to catholic church with me on sunday and in exchange I'll go with them to kingdom hall later works like a charm.

[Nova Land]

A friend of mine, who is very interested in Swedenborg, Cayce, near death experiences, the question of consciousness (where it comes from, how mind relates to body, etc.) enjoys arguing philosophy and religion with almost anyone. He lives in rural Pennsylvania. Today he heats his house mostly with wood, and keeps the living area fairly warm, but some years back he used coal and was more sparing in its use. Since he did a good amount of work outside, and dressed warmly, the indoor temperature felt quite comfortable to him even if not so comfortable to some visitors.

A pair of affluent JWs drove up one day (in this neighborhood, going door to door by foot would have been impractical) and asked if he'd like to discuss religion with them. He gave them a warm reception -- well, friendly might be a better word, as the room evidently was not as warm as they were used to. He was delighted to engage them in a discussion on different religious beliefs, and the discussion went on for quite some time -- longer, evidently, than they were comfortable, as one was noticeably shivering.

A month or so later, the missionaries were again making their rounds and came to call. This time, however, one of them stayed in their car, with the heater on, until the other was finished.

I forget whether he said they returned several more times (with the one always staying in the car) or if that was the last time he saw them.

It would seem that with missionaries, as with many things in life, the more eager and comfortable you are to discuss something controversial with others, the less eager and comfortable they may feel about talking with you.

[Skeptical Greg]

The important thing to remember about JW's (if they are properly indoctrinated, and they are not likely to
be knocking on doors, if they are not ), is that, they are not so interested in converting you, as they are
about carrying out their supposed mission ( spreading the word).

They take very seriously, a verse from the bible, about ' shaking the dust from their feet, and not returning
to a house where they are not well received '..

If you tell them ' you are not interested ', they will leave you alone.

[Ian Osborne]

The ultimate sin for a Jehovah's Witless is having a blood transfusion. If you say you've had one, they'll leave you alone for ever more, as you're already bound for Hell, no matter what you do in later life.

What a great religion...

[Doorknob]

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
The ultimate sin for a Jehovah's Witless is having a blood transfusion. If you say you've had one, they'll leave you alone for ever more, as you're already bound for Hell, no matter what you do in later life.

What a great religion...

This post indicates you don't really know what JW's believe. For one, they don't believe in Hell, at least not in the "mainstream" way. For a JW, Hell/Sheol/Hades/etc is simply the grave where you are asleep in death awaiting resurrection, there is no conscieousness, not a place of eternal punishment.

And there is no "ultimate sin". Saying you've had a blood transfusion will in no way scare them off. It DOES matter what you do later in life, you can always repent.

[scribble]

"I couldn't be a Jehovah's Witness. I didn't see the accident."

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
The ultimate sin for a Jehovah's Witless is having a blood transfusion. If you say you've had one, they'll leave you alone for ever more, as you're already bound for Hell, no matter what you do in later life.

What a great religion...


JW's do have a Bible based aversion to blood transfusions, and do not willingly submit to them, or allow
family members to receive them. But having had one, as a non-JW, would not be a basis for them not
wanting to witness to you.

They also do not believe that there is a hell, where the souls of non believers, spend eternity.


I think you may have them confused with some other group.

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by Diogenes
They also do not believe that there is a hell, where the souls of non believers, spend eternity.

No, the lost are destroyed, not punished for all eternity. Many Christians believe that too, arguing Hell is the final destruction of the soul.

But is the exact defenition of what they mean by Hell really that important? JWs have been known to let their children die rather than have a blood transfusion.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Ian Osborne


No, the lost are destroyed, not punished for all eternity. Many Christians believe that too, arguing Hell is the final destruction of the soul.

But is the exact defenition of what they mean by Hell really that important?

It is, if you are a JW.


JWs have been known to let their children die rather than have a blood transfusion.

This is true.
But what does that have to do with.....?
The ultimate sin for a Jehovah's Witless is having a blood transfusion. If you say you've had one, they'll leave you alone for ever more.....

Which is your statement, that I questioned....

[Pyrts]

Tell them you're Jewish.

For whatever reason, the Mormons, JWs, and others don't try to convince the Jews to convert.

[Doorknob]

Originally posted by Pyrts
Tell them you're Jewish.

For whatever reason, the Mormons, JWs, and others don't try to convince the Jews to convert.

That's not true either.

[CSSMariner]

I always thought conversion was the very nature of the spooks going door to door in the first place. In my NC hometown they said for many years they were raising money to build a church, then never did as far as I know. I always thought they were fruitcakes in any case.

[Kullervo]

You can always rant about gravitons and free-willy.

[pupdog]

I asked them what mosquitoes in heaven feed on, & tell them about my studies in geology & evolution.

But I haven't had any visits since I got a dog.

[ShottleBop]

Tell them you're Jewish.

For whatever reason, the Mormons, JWs, and others don't try to convince the Jews to convert

We're Jewish, and the JWs I referred to above were extremely interested in converting us. I know that their "how to" documentation includes instructions specifically relating to the conversion of Jews; they are (or were, some 30 years ago) under the impression that the typical Jew cannot take a piss without getting his/her rabbi's permission.

I have also had many talks with Mormons. They also appeared interested in converting Jews.

[jj]

I let my kids answer the door, and just stand there to make sure they don't invade the premises.

My kids are really, REALLY fast with the question "why". They are also good at 'how can I test that claim", "but what is your evidence", "other than what some guy wrote in a book, how can I find out", and "but how can I have faith if there is nothing to have faith about".

It's interesting. The LDS folks mostly are polite, somewhat astonished, say "thank you" and go on their way without looking terribly distressed. Some of the older missionaries from other denominations get remarkably angry, some of them at me.

I nod to the elder offspring, then, and she closes the door. She may be 12, but she's also 5'5" and about 120 skinny, muscular pounds. The door closes :D

----
Does anyone have a clever method of tossing a stick into the bicycle spokes of the pedaling profits out of Utah when they come by? I am tired of being evangelized at my front door.
----


Yeah, althought it isn't too clever- put up a sign that says no soliciting.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Fade
Ask them in for coffee and some casual sex.
I thought of this excellent approach (add being in the nude) only minutes after I sent a couple of JW foxes away. Damn, next time!

[thaiboxerken]

My wife uses a tactic that works very well for both religious sales and retail sales people. She yell's "NOT INTERESTED" and then slams the door.

[CSSMariner]

Originally posted by Whodini
[BYeah, althought it isn't too clever- put up a sign that says no soliciting. [/B]

I had one in contrasting colors on the front door of our home, didn't work with a lot of folks, especially the JW creeps.

On the front of my business I put a little sign that went, "NO SOLICITING, we feed every third salesman to the 'gators out back and the second one just left." Didn't work either.

Since we are not a walk-in business, we just locked the door. Then they would knock, so I would just look out of the door to the lab area, then close it. That worked.

Now I'm moving out into a rural area of Texas northwest a little from Fort Worth. I plan to fence in the eight acres and let the dogs roam as they will. Bet that works for everybody by damn.

[The Whether Man]

I tell them a Skoda joke.

"What's the difference between a Jehovah's Witness and a Skoda?
You can close the door on a Jehovah's Witness."

Then suit action to words.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by The Whether Man
I tell them a Skoda joke.

"What's the difference between a Jehovah's Witness and a Skoda?
You can close the door on a Jehovah's Witness."

Then suit action to words.
May I be the first: WTF is a Skoda?

[CSSMariner]

Originally posted by subgenius

May I be the first: WTF is a Skoda?

A car, very famous European Automobile. Racing for most of its history. Wow, its interesting hw many twists and turns a string will take.

Have a look at www.skoda-auto.com

[MRC_Hans]

Heheh, I was a little surprised too, I thought they were a strictly Danish phenomenon. Skoda is a Chech car brand. They started back in the thirties and made excellent and very durable cars. During the seventies and eighties, they made cars with typical East European charactersitcs; their three main advantages were: 1) Low price. 2) Low price. 3) Low price.

Especially in the eighties and early nineties, Skoda jokes flourished here.

Another example:

A Skoda and a donkey meet on a country road.
"Hello car!" Says the donkey.
"Hello donkey!" Replies the Skoda.
"Ewww!" Says the donkey "Now I called you a car, at least you could have called me Horse"

Lately, Skoda has been on close cooperation (and ownership) with Volkswagen, and the later models have a quality fully comparable with other good brands of cars. Of course, now the prices are also comparable with other good brands .....


Hans

[Ian Osborne]

What do you call an open-topped Skoda? A skip.

Why does a Skoda have a heated rear windscreen? To keep your hands warm while you're pushing it.

A man walks into a garage and says, 'I want a petrol cap for my Skoda'. The attendant replies, 'sounds like a fair swap to me'...

The defenition of a whistle - a Skoda with a beach ball on the seat.

[subgenius]

I never pass up the chance to show off my little baby.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Ian Osborne
What do you call an open-topped Skoda? A skip.

Why does a Skoda have a heated rear windscreen? To keep your hands warm while you're pushing it.

A man walks into a garage and says, 'I want a petrol cap for my Skoda'. The attendant replies, 'sounds like a fair swap to me'...

The defenition of a whistle - a Skoda with a beach ball on the seat.
You damn furiners;) , now WTF is a skip?
Skreek english dammit. :p

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by subgenius
I never pass up the chance to show off my little baby.

I had a honda 600 when I was in High School. I drove the heck out of that thing... and wrecked it.

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by subgenius
You damn furiners;) , now WTF is a skip?
Skreek english dammit. :p

BIIIIIG rented refuse container that's delivered and retrieved by a specially-designed truck. Check out this skip hire site. (http://www.aswhittakerhireaskip.co.uk/)

[davefoc]

I am always polite. It seems like they are trying to save my soul and I don't see any reason to dump on them for that.

In the past I used the "My wife is a catholic" dodge. This was, of course, a weasily response, but I was trying to be considerate of their feelings.

Once, I engaged in a discussion. The guy's beliefs seemed to be based on the infallibility of the bible and he wanted to argue everything based on a biblical interpretation. When I asked why such faith in the bible, he didn't have any answer that I understood.

The last time, I just thanked them for their concern but explained that I was an atheist. Less sensitive perhaps, but I felt a little better about being honest.

Enjoyed the Skoda jokes.

[Doctor X]

Be nice to 'em if they don't get on your nerves... represent atheism well. You probably won't counteract the brainwashing but it's worth a try, right?

Where is the fun in that?!!

Anyways, my favorite comes from a few years ago [Cue Sounds of Winter Winds Blowing through the Bare Branches.--Ed.]

A friend was about to graduate from high school. His house was set back a bit, so people had a walk to get to the front door. His brother--who looked like Ozzie on a particularly bad day--ran into his room:

"Do you have your graduation gown?!!"

"Yeah . . . why---"

"GIMME YOUR GRADUATION GOWN!!!"

By the time the JWs reached the door and knocked, his brother opened dressed in black, holding a cross upside down with "666" painted on it with White Out [Tm.--Ed.]

"Mmmmmmmmyyyyeeeeesssssss?"

As they stared in silent horror, he turned his head over his shoulder and yelled, "Honey?! I think the sacrifices are here!"

As his brother tells the story now, "I did not think you could run that fast with those briefcases."

--J.D.

[subgenius]

Now that's representin' atheism.

[Frostbite]

I usually slash my wrists and spray them with my blood. It scares them.

[mindless]

Originally posted by Frostbite
I usually slash my wrists and spray them with my blood. It scares them.

I usualy slash their wrists and spray myself with their blood. It scares them more.

[Nova Land]

Originally posted by Dark Cobra

That's no fun! :cool: A couple of people have indicated that having a polite conversation with JWs and other missionaries is not fun, so I'd like to point out ways it can be.

Depending on one's mood, and the nature of the missionaries, one can have a number of enjoyable conversations.

I enjoy learning about other people's beliefs, so my preference would generally be to say little and let them expound. However, their goal, generally, is to get the person they are talking with to express agreement with their beliefs (not simply to listen passively). So already you have the makings for an interesting challenge!

Many missionaries will, for instance, introduce some concept or term and then ask their listener to explain what it means. The exercise they seem to have in mind is sort of like a catechism: they ask a leading question, and the listener is supposed to provide the indicated answer.

Consider it a game, if you like. If they can get you to read out loud from their materials, or to "fill in the blank" they leave with the answer they have in mind, they win. If you can answer their questions politely and responsively without giving the appearance of agreeing with the answers they are seeking, you win.

One simple form of answer I use, for example, is "I think what you are looking for is... ", which allows me to provide the answer they are seeking without saying I agree with it. (If they invite you to explain your odd wording or to explain what you believe, that's good too. Now they've invited you to proselytize them, and it's their challenge to find a polite way to get back to their script.)

What's challenging, fun, and helpful in understanding more about their beliefs than their prepared script gives, is to get them off script. For example, JWs often begin by asking if one would like "to live forever in paradise on earth"? I usually respond, "No," and explain that I rather like the idea of a finite life-span, that the idea of living forever sounds nice as a fantasy but that there are too many practical problems with it. One response I got from a pair of JWs was that this is probably because I hadn't thought about the idea enough. I in turn responded that, on the contrary, I had thought about it a great deal, that it comes up often in science fiction, and while people often assume it must be wonderful there are actually many drawbacks...

Now the missionaries have the choice of entering into a discussion of various science fiction stories about negative aspects of immortality, or of glossing over this opening bit about immortality and moving on to their next bit on the script. Their problem is that each bit of their script usually builds from your answer to the previous bit, so it's hard for them to just move to the second bit when you've just said you don't want to live forever in paradise.

Many of them are quite skillful at spotting conversational terrain that will be awkward for them, and getting back to their familiar grounds, and it can be a pleasure to watch their techniques. Others, especially novices, are less skilled, and more easily lured into discussions of science fiction or other topics before they realize they have lost sight of their purpose in talking with you. What they say during these moments is often very interesting, and helps me understand and appreciate them as people rather than as stereotypes.

So you can enjoy the exercise on several levels, depending on your mood and personality. You can enjoy learning more about other people's beliefs; you can enjoy testing how well you can resist being manipulated in a conversation; or you can enjoy observing a skilled performance in the art of attempted persuasion.

I think that people with unusual religious beliefs may have a slight advantage over other people, including atheists, in doing these exercises. The scripts and training that missionaries are given generally assume that the people they are arguing with will be resistant to the points they are making. They are less prepared to respond to people who instead argue they are not carrying the point far enough.

The same creativity people in this thread are using to come up with imaginative ways to chase JWs away can be used in polite conversation to come up with imaginative arguments the missionaries' training did not prepare them for.

Assuming you have enough time to spend on these conversations, you may find that by the time the missionaries excuse themselves in order to continue on their rounds you are actually looking forward to picking up the discussion with them another time.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Nova Land
A couple of people have indicated that having a polite conversation with JWs and other missionaries is not fun, so I'd like to point out ways it can be.

Snipity doo dah .....

The same creativity people in this thread are using to come up with imaginative ways to chase JWs away can be used in polite conversation to come up with imaginative arguments the missionaries' training did not prepare them for.

Assuming you have enough time to spend on these conversations, you may find that by the time the missionaries excuse themselves in order to continue on their rounds you are actually looking forward to picking up the discussion with them another time.

Wow!! Really enjoyed your post!

We really need to be reminded sometimes, that much could be done to give Atheists a good name,
instead of being stereotyped as fundie bashers.

[neutrino_cannon]

All the ideas for various ways to avert JW's simply by apealing to their ingrained sense of disgust are :

a: imature

b: (if you are, as I am, an atheist/agnostic/thingie) a poor repesentation in a situation that would be a time for peaceful deplomacy rather than peurile pranks.

c: A cheap source of high quality entertainment.

hmmm

Ever watched "Harold and Maude"? All inspiration on this subject can be tapped from there.

[Nova Land]

This is a little out of date. A few months ago I picked up a copy of the February 8, 2003 issue of Awake, a Jehovah's Witness publication. For those who do not want to converse with JWs who come to the door, here is something which may be useful.

According to an article in that issue of Awake, there is a sin that god does not ever forgive: blasphemy against the spirit.

If there is a sin that god never forgives, then a person who commits that sin cannot be "saved.". If you commit this sin -- or claim that you have committed it -- then there is no point in anyone trying to convert you to their religion in order to "save your soul", because according to the bible (as Jehovah's Witnesses are currently supposed to read it) your soul is hopelessly lost.

To try to save an "unforgivable sinner" would be pointless. To tell such a person they can be saved would be a lie. Even to attempt to save such a person would be an act in clear defiance of god's explicitly stated intentions -- quite possibly an act of blasphemy of the spirit on the evangelist's part, meaning that they, too, might be irrevocably damned to hell if they tried to preach salvation to an unforgivable sinner...

That would seem to mean that unforgivable sinners are exempt from being preached at. NOTE: the following dialogue is a dramatization, not an actual encounter, and is provided for entertainment purposes only. All roles were played by professional actors; no actual home-owners or missionaries were involved. Please read all warnings and disclaimers before attempting this stunt at home.

DING-DONG! (person opens door, is confronted by missionaries)

"Excuse me, sister, are you saved?"

"No, I'm an unforgivable sinner. But you're welcome to try to save me; I'm told god looks down on that, and that means you could keep me company in hell for all eternity."

"Oh, no, that's all right. If god wants you to go to hell who am I to question the wisdom of that? I'll just see continue down the block and see if any of your neighbors are more salvageable. Sorry to have bothered you, and have a nice day."The obvious question you may be asking is: What do I need to do to qualify for this special exemption from being saved? According to the article, it is not enough simply to blaspheme. Merely denying god's existence, or making sacreligious remarks, won't cut it. (Merely claiming to be an atheist, or making off-color jokes about Jesus, wouldn't shoo dedicated missionaries away, and would likely have just the reverse effect of making them all the more eager to win over an errant soul.)

The key, according to the article, is that you need not only to commit blasphemy, but to do it deliberately and with malicious intent.

I'm not sure how one would go about proving one had been adequately malicious, but deliberateness seems easy enough, especially if one were to memorize appropriate biblical citations and could quote them, chapter and verse, as evidence of one's seriousness. The 2 key ones cited in this article are Matthew 12:31 and Hebrews 10:26.

If this tactic does work, I could imagine there being a profitable sideline for someone in producing buttons, bumper stickers, door stickers, welcome mats, etc. with slogans such as "Unforgivable sinner -- I'm beyond hope, please go next door and save my neighbor".

DISCLAIMER: My understanding is that the concept of an "unforgivable sin" is controversial, and many christians including many fundamentalists would reject such a notion. While the use of the tactic described above may be effective against some missionaries from religions that subscribe to this doctrine, I make no guarantee for its effectiveness when it is applied poorly or inappropriately (such as on a missionary who does not subscribe to the notion of unforgivable sin), and I do not accept any liability for time lost or aggravation suffered as a result of such misuse.

On the other hand, if it does work, please feel free to send me money or comic books as expressions of your gratitude.

[Drifterman]

Whwn I first arrived in Taiwan as a teacher, my school sent a guy to the airport to pick me up. This guy turned out to be an LDS. His job was to get the new teachers settled in quickly so that the school could begin its bloodsucking as soon as possible.

Anyway, after dropping my stuff off at the hotel, the first thing he did was to take me out for a beer. If all LDSs did that, I'd bet they get more converts.

Back on topic, I don't think there are any JWs here in TW (I may be mistaken) but there are tons of LDSs. So far the best way to discourage them has been to pretend to be French.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by CSSMariner
I have never had one, or for that matter two, of the LDS whatever they are called stop by, but the ones I do see on the streets in South Florida are always dudes. I wonder where they send the cuties????? Not here, I suppose they are afraid some recruiter for a South American drug lord or a Middle East sheik will snatch them off the street and export them.

All the lads are always trim, which I suppose is normal enough from pedaling that nefarious volume (bible) around all the time. I was trim too when I was pedaling a hundred miles a week, then I was hit by a woman driver in a rush to get to work, and the rest is history.

They are called Missionaries and their official title is Elder (why, I don't know because Missionaries tend to be fresh out of high school).

As to why they are invariably men, well, it is simply because women are discouraged from going on missions. They aren't told they can't, but it isn't the norm. There are a few who do do missions, but they are few and far between. My Seminary teacher, who was one of the best people I have ever met despite his religion, encouraged us "against church standards" to all do missions.

I have found that girls (for a good part) who are raised in the Mormon religion graduate high school, maybe go to college until they find a husband and then get married, drop out of school and start breeding.

I actually think the Mormon church 'picks' the good looking ones to spread their message, and I think they also choose young people for missions because they are trying to get those young and impressionable teens out there. I sincerely doubt anyone in the LDS church will agree with that, but then again, I don't think it is officially published either.

[Tormac]

Just a little game I always like to play with anyone who calls my house or knocks on the door is "kitten salesman".

I'm the well-fare state in Blackswamp OH when it comes to stray cats. For a while it was always a good bet that I would have an extra cat living in the barn. Very few things in life provide me with more inner joy than sit down with an unsolicited salesman of any type (be it religions or vacuum cleaners) and politely, but with firm resolution and strong conviction try to get them to agree to adopt one of my stray cats.

It took me a while, honing my salesmanship skills with telemarketers, to get to the point where I could answer any question with "yes, but regardless, I'm sure you see the need for the salvation of those less fortunate than ourselves. As a matter of good stewardship I'm sure you would not neglect the chance to provide a warm loving home to one of God's creatures, and adopt a homeless cat." without bursting out with evil mirth, but once one masters this ability, one can have fun with any unsolicited conversation. (if you do not actually have a stray cat in need of adoption, just send them to the local animal shelter, they always have a surplus.) I am always amazed at the amount of insanity people will put up with to make money. ;)

edite-somehow I got the wrong smile :wink:

[Chupacabras]

Around here, someone got very creative and printed a sign with a Virgen María (the mexican, of course) that reads (more or less):


This home is Christian and we do not accept propaganda from sects.


This guy must have sold millions...

I wanted to try one of the first posts, going out nude, but my wife worried that they might try to actually get in... :)

[Sandy M]

Well, maybe I've encountered wimpy Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints at my door - but merely saying , "I'm Catholic," usually sends 'em away with no fuss. Of course, I don't elaborate and tell them that 13 years of parochial school turned me into an atheist/agnostic, but.... they didn't ask, did they?

[crocodile deathroll]

"Piss off"

Short and simple and works every time.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

I am so out of practice of repelling solicitors... though the last the JW's came by I was getting out of the powder room (and for once glad of its usually unfortunate location in full view of the front door window).

The absolutely only time I have been witty was in the past.... like when I was 13 and in the 7th grade. I was home sick when the local elderly lady JW came by. She asked me if I was the woman of the house... I just told her I was the "sick kid".

Then (and it must have been over 20 years ago)... I had a $cientlogist come by my college apartment selling some trinkets. He said he was selling these toys for his "church of $cientology"... I said "no"... and then added that there is much better science fiction than what was written by Hubburd. The look on his face was a combination of crest-fallen, shocked and angry. It was just priceless.

I am getting some good ideas here. Though for charitable solicitations I usually use the fact that I really only donate to the charity that provided therapy for one of my kids' disability (which is true). That usually makes them go "hmmm, oh, okay, thanks".

[Missy]

Try having a brother as a Jo-ho.. ain't no door knocking there.. just waltz right in and preach.. chessh!

[calladus]

Originally posted by Magnifico

Be nice to 'em if they don't get on your nerves... represent atheism well. You probably won't counteract the brainwashing but it's worth a try, right?

Yes! Why be a jerk about it? Be pleasant instead.

Wouldn't it be great if the JW or Mormon would leave your house and say, "Geeze, the Baptist and the Jewish families yelled and slammed the door on us, but that atheist family was so NICE! Maybe we have them all wrong?"

If pleasant doesn't work, you always have other options to fall back on!

Personally I just tell them that I'm Atheist, and I'm not interested in converting. A couple of times I had the time to talk, and enjoyed talking with these people, the people I met were all intelligent, nice people.

Now if Fred Phelps appeared at my door, I'm sure my response would be much more aggressive!

[3-toed-sloth]

I had three Jehovah's Witnesses stop by about a month ago. There was an older lady and two younger guys the lady did the talking. I guess she was training the new salesman. She starts her speech by asking me if I think world peace is a good thing. I said that is was. Then she asked if ending hunger worldwide was a good goal to work towards, again I said that sounded great.

I guess she figured her two questions were enough, so she then made some statements about how the power of god could achieve these goals and how the Jehovah Witness has some special connection with god (she didn’t use those exact words, but you get the idea).

At that point, I politely told her that all of the god stuff as just a fictional story and that I wasn’t interested in her story. She then tried to make me feel guilty by saying that I was the only person in the neighborhood that felt that way. I told her that I wasn’t interested in my neighbors’ beliefs.

She looked confused for a bit and I just sat there smiling like a fool. A couple of minutes later she started to leave. She asked if I want her free magazine and I told her to save the paper since I wouldn’t read it.

It was kind of fun.

[icantlogoff]

I know this is a age old post, but came across it while reading some posts on this great forum.

As an ex-JW and from someone who has heard every excuse and had some pretty funny experiences on people wanting you to leave, You can get them never to call on you again very simply.

Tell them I want to be listed as a "DO NOT CALL" ensure they write your address down, this is then handed to the elders and when your area comes up again your address is given out as a do not call. You will find about once a year an "elder" will cal just in case you have moved, just repeat the statement again.
ALL JW work from what is called territory maps, will they will also note "not at home' number and try them again at a different time.

Believe me the JW's will not call on a "do not call' house.

And as for all the comments mentions on this post so far, i reckon i heard them all, and a lot more. I believe being chased out of a garden with a guy swinging ( I kid you not) a chain saw at me, probably topped it for me.

Anyway Please to out of all religions now, Has given me the chance to think straight for once.

Steve

[clarsct]

Well, this is a story I have repeated often here, and I assure you it is true.

WE had a plague of Jehovah's Witnesses at the house when I was a kid. Mom always took the literature, trying to be nice.

Now, Dad had a different take. You see, he used to BE a 'Jo Ho'(great term!!!). He had a falling out with the Kingdom Hall that culminated in him standing up in front of the Hall and telling the...whatever the hell they call their head dude...Grand Poo-bah, whatever that he was a hypocrite, that the Hall was full of lying jackasses and that God Himself would never grace such a bunch of....well ...[Content censored by Rule 8]

Fast foward about 10 years and he starts seeing these pamphlets in his house....Mind you, dad never gave up a good grudge.

So, to the meat of the story, one day Me and my father are sitting there and a car pulls up the driveway. JH's. I recognized them and told my dad, who promptly takes off his shorts, the only clothing he was wearing, and grabs the 12 gauge out of the closet. They knock, and he proceeds open the door and say "C'mon in, I wanmt to talk to YOU!!"

Now, I dunno why, but these folks had the whole family with them.....and I fear the 7-8 year old girl was never the same after that...

Oddly enough, they RAN to their cars, and never again returned.

Dunno why.:confused:

[icantlogoff]

well , there is 18 months of therapy down the drain trying to forget that incident..... :shocked: ;)

[clarsct]

Well, at the age of 10, it wasn't what I wanted to see, either.

However, the effectiveness of the method is beyond reproach...

[RenaissanceBiker]

I used to get them all the time in KY. One saturday morning a middle-aged woman and a teenage girl showed up and the young lady began her speech. I listened politely then explained that I was an atheist. I said that faith is not a sufficient foundation for a system of beliefs. I could see her thinking about this. The older woman took over and began telling me about Jesus. I stopped her cold by saying, "I'm familiar with the legend." She raised her voice and said, "It is NOT a legend!" She was very defensive and accused me of trying to convert her. I pointed out that she came to my door to discuss religion. I did not come to hers. She politely accepted that that was the case and left to continue her mission.

2 weeks later she returned with her husband. He was a deacon in their church. She had obviously been discussing our encounter with him and needed some closure. He asked me if I would read a book about how science confirmed a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis. I agreed to take it and read it on the condition that they read A Brief History of Time by Hawking. He asked if it was available at the public library and I told it should be. We agreed that they could return to discuss the origin of the universe after they finished their reading.

The book they gave me was typical young-earth creationist misrepresentations. It was easy to go point-by-point and refute it with a little research. I prepared a body of notes and waited for their return. About a month later, they did. He said that ABHOT was difficult to follow at times but he did understand what was written and could not find fault in it. I politely showed them what I found, and went on to discuss some things about probability. They agreed to simply disagree with me about our views and I thought that was the end of it.

2 weeks later, the man returned with the pastor of their church. That conversation was short, but polite. The pastor smiled the entire time but said little. He nodded everytime I spoke as if to say to the man, "I told you he would say that." or, "The devil is a good liar."

After that, I never had another visit from the JWs. They would actually skip my house when they walked down the street. Now I live in SC. They have come by a few times when I was not home and the Mrs. has sent them away by them to return later. I keep hoping they catch me sometime.

[StewartP]

IAnyway Please to out of all religions now, Has given me the chance to think straight for once.
Steve - welcome to the forums. Its always great to have an "ex con" on board because we can benefit from your experience and your insights now that the shackels are off. ;)

[elaine]

I know this is a age old post, but came across it while reading some posts on this great forum.

As an ex-JW and from someone who has heard every excuse and had some pretty funny experiences on people wanting you to leave, You can get them never to call on you again very simply.

Tell them I want to be listed as a "DO NOT CALL" ensure they write your address down, this is then handed to the elders and when your area comes up again your address is given out as a do not call. You will find about once a year an "elder" will cal just in case you have moved, just repeat the statement again.
ALL JW work from what is called territory maps, will they will also note "not at home' number and try them again at a different time.

Believe me the JW's will not call on a "do not call' house.

And as for all the comments mentions on this post so far, i reckon i heard them all, and a lot more. I believe being chased out of a garden with a guy swinging ( I kid you not) a chain saw at me, probably topped it for me.

Anyway Please to out of all religions now, Has given me the chance to think straight for once.

Steve


Welcome Steve.

I was raised as a JW. Comes in handy to be able to say I left.

Don't miss those days.

[Foster Zygote]

Oddly enough, they RAN to their cars, and never again returned.

Dunno why.:confused:

That was like reading a Gene Sheppard story. =0)

"My old man had totally lost it. I loved when that happened."

Steven

[Fizzer]

I used to get them all the time in KY.
...
2 weeks later she returned with her husband. He was a deacon in their church.
...
The book they gave me was typical young-earth creationist misrepresentations.
...
2 weeks later, the man returned with the pastor of their church.
...
After that, I never had another visit from the JWs.

You sure those were JW's? JW's are not young earth creationists. Also there are no titles "deacons" or "pastors" used. It would be Ministerial Servants and Elders, however those are not used as titles in their names (i.e. They would never say something like "I'm Elder Smith", etc.)

[RenaissanceBiker]

The titles I gave were ones I assigned them. I don't remember the titles they actually used in conversation. They were Jehovah's Witnesses. They gave me a Watchtower on their first visit. The book they gave me later was a small hardback that said, amoung other things, that the Genesis flood carved the Grand Canyon.

Edit: I remember the "Deacon" mentioning that God could have created the light from distant stars already en route to us.

[ponderingturtle]

Hmm I think haveing a deep conversation with them and someone who is not there might work. Insist that they stop interupting him would also be quite good.

[icantlogoff]

It sounds like a book they have called something along the lines of .....
Mankind by evolution or by creation. It is certainly something that would be discussed by them on the 'doors'

My father used to be an elder, so he tended to get any of the doors which were deemed as difficult, the local vickerage being one of them. So i hate to say it but once i got into my late teen age, i was more than happy to argue it out with any atheist, or issue on blood etc.

I think the main thing with the JW is the confidence and blinkered elitist views they have. They do really believe they have the light and EVERYONE else is in the dark. The comment made about the elder just smiling while listening to you is a prime example.

It is true if you just flat out argue with them , they will stop calling, but you will still get the Shiite JW calling just for the practice..lol as I used to love a good challenge. Its funny cause the arguments i used to put forward, when i think about them now, just seem to ridiculous, funny how faith seems to cloud any judgement.

Steve

[Walk The Line]

I had a bit of a difference experience with the JW's.

As I was driving to work one morning about a year ago, I quickly realized I had a flat tire. I was still in my driveway when this happened, and because I live close to a Kingdom Hall (within a stone's throw), I pulled into their parking lot. I began to work on changing my tired when a whole group of JW's rolled up. They walked into their church like I wasn't there, not offering to help me out with my tire.

Yes, there isn't really anything they could have done, but I'm still annoyed they didn't bother to ask. But, I suppose they had better things to do with their time than help out a stranger.

BTW, I notice they spend a whole lot of time at church. As in, they are there almost every day. Is this normal?

[Fizzer]

BTW, I notice they spend a whole lot of time at church. As in, they are there almost every day. Is this normal?

Kingdom Halls are typically home to 1 to 4 different local congregations. All will meet individually at different times on Sundays and then each will meet again during the week in the evening, each on a different day. Also sometimes groups will meet there briefly before heading out to do door to door work. So it's not uncommon for there to be activity there nearly every day but not always the same group of people each day.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

That was like reading a Gene Sheppard story. =0)
Steven

That's JEAN Sheppard. It's also, Jean SHEPHERD -- but we'll forgive you for that.

Gord
---
META SIG: "I had been an eyewitness to a truly historic moment in American pop culture."

[Ryan O'Dine]

Seems like a JW solicitation would be a good time to develop your cold reading chops. You could interrupt their spiel with your own. “Excuse me, is there someone in your family... I’m getting an R -- Ron or Robert? Someone who’s passed?...” I wonder how much they’d put up with.

Alternatively, you could just try to get as much personal info as possible. Surely, they’d give their first name, but would they give their last? Could you get the names of family members, pets? You could probably get their neighborhood, but could you get their street address? Mother’s maiden name? Write it all down -- make them nervous.

Better yet, there should be a website. Whoever gets the most personal info wins. It’s the JW game!

[icantlogoff]

The basic meeting/hall attendance is 5 meetings a week.
In the UK it worked out like this

Sunday: (2Hrs)
10am Public talk , normally on themes that would be understood by anyone including outside that of Jw's'
11am Watchtower study. A study article in the Watchtower, which is normally read paragraphs then ask then questions listed in the watchtower

Tuesday (1Hrs) normally in someones home in a smaller groups
7pm Book study, using one the JW's books that are published, these are read and questions asked from the book to ensure you have understood what you have learnt

Thursday (2Hrs)
7pm Theocratic Ministry school. A series of Talk given by various member of the congregation on outline subjects.
8pm Service meeting; geared more to the ministry work of door knocking, examples training and articles discussed, and also used for any talks on dangers of something that might be a problem in the congregations ( like me, when i was getting kicked out)

That's pretty much it, they have a 15 mins mini meeting before going out and knocking on your door, normally just discusses the them of what they will talk about.

Then you have the Larger circuit and district assemblies.


Steve

[icantlogoff]

Seems like a JW solicitation would be a good time to develop your cold reading chops. You could interrupt their spiel with your own. “Excuse me, is there someone in your family... I’m getting an R -- Ron or Robert? Someone who’s passed?...” I wonder how much they’d put up with.

Alternatively, you could just try to get as much personal info as possible. Surely, they’d give their first name, but would they give their last? Could you get the names of family members, pets? You could probably get their neighborhood, but could you get their street address? Mother’s maiden name? Write it all down -- make them nervous.

Better yet, there should be a website. Whoever gets the most personal info wins. It’s the JW game!

That is one of the best ideas so far, that would freak them out, hmmm i must try that.

[elaine]

How about nailing a Watchtower or Awake to the door, stained with the blood of the last JW's that came by?

[Huh-What?]

Answer the door in a black robe and say, "One of you wouldn't happen to be a virgin?"

[RenaissanceBiker]

I imagine that JW's are used to people trying to shock them. At the end of a hard day's mission, the group leader probably says, "Thanks for all your hard work. Who has a funny story from today? How many naked people answered the door?" That's why I wouldn't bother doing that.

[elaine]

I imagine that JW's are used to people trying to shock them. At the end of a hard day's mission, the group leader probably says, "Thanks for all your hard work. Who has a funny story from today? How many naked people answered the door?" That's why I wouldn't bother doing that.

Those with a sense of humor actually do, if I recall correctly.

[ponderingturtle]

The basic meeting/hall attendance is 5 meetings a week.
In the UK it worked out like this

Sunday: (2Hrs)
10am Public talk , normally on themes that would be understood by anyone including outside that of Jw's'
11am Watchtower study. A study article in the Watchtower, which is normally read paragraphs then ask then questions listed in the watchtower


Wow they are not allowed to think up their own questions?

[elaine]

Wow they are not allowed to think up their own questions?

That would only lead to thinking for oneself. Can't have that.

I remember when I was 12, not understanding various interpretations of scripture, when the scripture was clearly saying something else. JW's like all other bible based organizations are good at torturing the scripture. I remember being told to just accept what I was being told and that I would understand some day.

I'm so glad I'm contrary by nature. Otherwise I'd still be there.

[Freethinker]

I imagine that JW's are used to people trying to shock them. At the end of a hard day's mission, the group leader probably says, "Thanks for all your hard work. Who has a funny story from today? How many naked people answered the door?" That's why I wouldn't bother doing that.

I told two ladies who woke me up one morning after a 24 hour shift that I didn't have time for their bulls__t, and that I'd been at work since 6am yesterday and had been in bed for three f____ing hours. All they said was "Oh" before I closed the door.
I believe they were surprised.:)

[Stitch]

I usually find they call when I have the least time to enter in to any type of conversation. I had a call from them this Saturday morning while I had a barrow full of mortar going off in the back garden, they got a terse response I'm afraid.

[icantlogoff]

Questioning was something that was frown apon, when i say questioning, if you are asking pro-scripture questions then fine, But I clearly remember asking one of the elders a question about the organization and its roots, and then question would have come over a little negative, and I was told to be careful as That kind of questioning leads to apostacy, and a road to disfellowshiping.
So they do dumb you down , I guess like any other religion when it comes to thinging for yourself

regards

steve

[bruto]

For a while, I had a little sign on my door that just said "Jehovah's Witnesses and other evangelists, don't waste your time." If they came anyway I made impolite inferences regarding their literacy before slamming the door.

In recent years, the JW's have become a little less aggressive, so nowadays I just say politely, "not interested," and close the door rather than slamming it. My wife tells them she's a devout Catholic (not that she is), which works pretty well.

One of my cherished childhood memories comes from when I was about 10, and a JW came to the door. My mother answered. She'd studied this stuff, and knew the material much better than he did. The guy started up his spiel, and she knocked him down every time with chapter and verse. She wouldn't let him get away with anything. After about 10 minutes, he stormed down the garden path, quite literally in tears, yelling as he went that she was going to go to hell. They left us alone for quite a while after that.

[Fizzer]

After about 10 minutes, he stormed down the garden path, quite literally in tears, yelling as he went that she was going to go to hell. They left us alone for quite a while after that.

JW's don't believe in Hell, that's not something they would say.

[gdtbiker]

Here's my story of JW's and LDS's.

We live in the country of Western New York. Many years ago when folks out here never bothered to lock their doors, we got back from shopping and found that JWs had been there, had opened our door and left their pamphlets on our telephone stand just inside the door. They had also apparently let our prized inside-only Siamese cat out. The next time they stopped when we were home, my mother really gave 'em hell and threatened to sue them. They never stopped back. :)

Many years later I had a visit from two LDS elders. I actually had fun debating with them. Then they said they'd have to study up on getting answers for me. They showed up again. And again I politely asked very difficult questions. I ended up agreeing to a visit from their Western New York President. He actually showed up! I couldn't believe my good fortune. I out-debated him handily. But what really made him nervous is when I pulled out my own very old copy of the Book of Mormon to follow along with his quotations. You see, the Book of Mormon is supposed to be the actual word of god as written down by Joseph Smith, But,.... since the orginal edition, the text has undergone several thousand edits to correct grammer and conflicting references. At this point, he summarized very quickly and left. I never saw him again, but I did arrange to see the other two elders again at their own church. They left by thanking me for the serious food for thought I had given them since they still could find nothing wrong with my previous arguments to their own President. I can only hope that I made some small difference, but I've noticed that no LDS'ers have ever shown up again at our house since their original visits several years ago.

[gdtbiker]

P.S.: The "president' also told me that they believe that we all can become gods, and as if that wasn't enough, he said he believes that humans were seeded here on Earth by people from another planet! :wide-eyed

[ponderingturtle]

P.S.: The "president' also told me that they believe that we all can become gods, and as if that wasn't enough, he said he believes that humans were seeded here on Earth by people from another planet! :wide-eyed

Wait a minute aren't they monotheists? How on earth does someone become a god in a monotheistic religion?

[gdtbiker]

Wait a minute aren't they monotheists? How on earth does someone become a god in a monotheistic religion?
That's what I originally thought too. At the time, I was so flabbergasted that I didn't pursue that specifically. But, ... One god to rule them all? ;)

[ImaginalDisc]

I really wonder how they would react when someone leaps to their feet excitedly and says "By all means! Come in, come in! Can I get you anything to drink? Make yourself at home!" while rushing around, beside myself, grinning from ear to ear and rubbing my hands together.

I do that. The last time JW's came over, I invited them in, and gave them piles of litterature (printouts from PositiveAtheism.com) then I proceeded to explain to them why their religion is a sham. I had them at my place for four hours. Their buddies came looking for them and soon I had four JW's at my place, trying to defend their nonsense beliefs.

I was thrilled. The more time they wasted with me, the less time they had to inflict their disease on everyone else.

[FramerDave]

Only experience I have had was with the LDS. Two of them showed up at my door one evening, both clean-cut about 18-19 as mentioned by others. Their opening line was "Have you ever seen missionaries like us?" I'm not sure what they were getting at but my response was "No, you're much cuter than most of them." I then invited them in for a rigorous bout of 3-way man-on-man-on man sex.

They politely declined and never darkened my door again. Shame, because I'm pretty sure one of them would have gone for it if his buddy hadn't been there. Guess that's why they're always in pairs.

[RenaissanceBiker]

P.S.: The "president' also told me that they believe that we all can become gods, and as if that wasn't enough, he said he believes that humans were seeded here on Earth by people from another planet! :wide-eyed

The "humans can become gods" thing is a Mormon belief. The "seeding by aliens" is a scientology belief. I'm not surprised. Religions have been borrowing successful concepts from each other for years. It is an "Origin of the Cults" type of religious evolution.

[kittykatkarma]

How to send the J.W. door knockers packing, you ask?

My father had a big loveable black labrador. She was the most loveable dog I think I had ever encountered. She greeted visitors with a happy bark and a whole body wag... unless they were J.W. door knockers. The only time I ever heard her growl with fur standing on end, was when they got out of their car and tried to approach the front walk. She would not let them pass.

Get a dog! Dogs can smell the nonsense a mile away!

footnote:
I seem to be an ex-J.W. magnet. Best friend is an ex-J.W., and very close friend of many years is also and ex-J.W.. Younger gal at work, who I would certainly call friend and who gravitates toward me, just happens to be J.W., I wonder how long before she is an ex-J.w.?

[bruto]

JW's don't believe in Hell, that's not something they would say.I don't doubt I misremember the details of what he said. He was weeping and ranting. The content was secondary.

[elaine]

footnote:
I seem to be an ex-J.W. magnet. Best friend is an ex-J.W., and very close friend of many years is also and ex-J.W.. Younger gal at work, who I would certainly call friend and who gravitates toward me, just happens to be J.W., I wonder how long before she is an ex-J.w.?

Funny, I don't remember being told kittykatkarma was the anti-christ.

[kittykatkarma]

Funny, I don't remember being told kittykatkarma was the anti-christ.:eek:
I'm not, I'm not...

[elaine]

:eek:
I'm not, I'm not...

methinks she doth protest to much


Actually, I think they teach there are many anti-christs.

[kittykatkarma]

methinks she doth protest to much
Actually, I think they teach there are many anti-christs.

Many is what they teach / brain wash. Both converted friends are very intelligent and saw the error of the teachings early on. What's sad is because of their separation from the kingdom hall, they are also separated from their families who remain on the inside.

[elaine]

Many is what they teach / brain wash. Both converted friends are very intelligent and saw the error of the teachings early on. What's sad is because of their separation from the kingdom hall, they are also separated from their families who remain on the inside.

My Mom hasn't spoken to me in years. I'm actually ok with it. Because JW's is her life, there isn't much to talk about aside from the weather. She's nuts.

It's just so sad to me that people will give up their control to someone else. I guess it's easier than taking responsibility for your own life.

[Freethinker]

A topic appropriate joke:

One day, a woman's doorbell rang. The weather was very bad. The woman opened the door, and there stood a young girl, a Jehovah's Witness, soaking wet. The woman felt sorry for her, so she asked the young woman into the house for a cup of coffee and to dry off. The woman wanted to make conversation as the two drank their hot chocolate, so she asked the Jehovah's Witness, "So, what's the message you're passing along?'" The girl stuttered and said, "I'm not sure. I never got this far."

[grayman]

A topic appropriate joke:

Another one:

JW: "Would you be interested in becoming a Jehovah Witness?"

Me: "No, because I didn't see the accident".

[adler]

I was a dubber for thirty five years, One thing people do not understand about them is that if you argue with them they will keep coming back. There are only two ways to keep them away and this will only work for six months at a time. If you live in a hot spot for dubb activity when they visit you can request to go on the "Do not call list" This will put your home on the do not call list for the territory you are in for six months, then they will call at the end of that time to see if you still live at that address or if you changed your mind about a study. The other thing is you can learn about some of the big problems with the teachings and invite them in and hammer them with questions, this involves getting studied up on their belief that the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by king nebaknezzer the second in 607 bce when all other secular facts show it was destroyed in 586 or 587 bce, they use this date of 607 to count forward to arrive at 1914, a date set by C.T. Russell for the end of the world. Unless you were a dubber you probably do not want to bore yourself with this method. Just tell them to put you on the do not call list and **** off.

[icantlogoff]

I was a dubber for thirty five years, One thing people do not understand about them is that if you argue with them they will keep coming back. There are only two ways to keep them away and this will only work for six months at a time. If you live in a hot spot for dubb activity when they visit you can request to go on the "Do not call list" This will put your home on the do not call list for the territory you are in for six months, then they will call at the end of that time to see if you still live at that address or if you changed your mind about a study. The other thing is you can learn about some of the big problems with the teachings and invite them in and hammer them with questions, this involves getting studied up on their belief that the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed by king nebaknezzer the second in 607 bce when all other secular facts show it was destroyed in 586 or 587 bce, they use this date of 607 to count forward to arrive at 1914, a date set by C.T. Russell for the end of the world. Unless you were a dubber you probably do not want to bore yourself with this method. Just tell them to put you on the do not call list and **** off.

I'll second that, the do not call list is the best way to keep them from calling, I was a JW up until i was 30. And 'Adler' is right arguing with them will not stop them coming back.
Just as a point, until I left them i didn't realise that 607BCE date was wrong. I confronted this recently with one, their response... Well we believe biblical dates over any historical claims!
So i guess they just take historical evidence when its suits them!

I did have a good session with 2 recently on evolution, which they used the adaptation of the Paley watchmaker argument but used a house in the desert instead. After putting my reasoning across, i have seen them again that was nearly 4 months ago.

[adler]

I was one till the watchtower of 95 when they changed the meaning of "Generation" I had been waiting for years to see what they would do as so many were dieing of the generation of 1914.
I have had the argument of "we believe bible chronology more than secular chronology" argument also, this is very easy to debunk, You see they arrive at the date of 607 by counting back from the date 537 70 years, you know the 70 years of servitude under Babylon control. So once you bring this to their attention, just tell them that they are using the date 537 which was arrived at by secular science using the same lines of dating as was used to come to the date for the destruction of the temple of 586-87, This effectively destroys their false argument, and by a domino effect shows that in 1914 then was not the date that "Christ did not come on that date, and he did not put the band of "bible students in charge of gods earthly organization" But never have any hope this will change their thinking, When you are determined to drink the kool-aid, There aint much you can do to stop people.

[Juustin]

I realize this is an old thread, but I was going through older posts and thought I'd add my perspective on this one.

When I was 16 I started dating the girl who is now my wife. Her parents/family were all JW's, and for the first couple years we had to keep it a secret from her family (except her cousin, who was a JW but open minded and welcoming).

Eventually her parents found out. Her mother secretly met me behind her father's back, since he basically told his daughter she wasn't allowed to date me. After long enough, I met him as well.

My wife was never baptised, but she had grown up in it, and like most witnesses, was never allowed to associate with people from outside the religion. She was basically a "witness by default", because she was sheltered from anyone who had a different opinion. She had a hard time NOT beliving it because it's all she ever knew; and because her whole family/circle of friends were involved in it, and none would be allowed to associate with her if she denounced it.

I never forced any beliefs on her, and for a few years she remained in a sort of middle ground where she wasn't sure if she still believed it or not (though I'm pretty proud to say she didn't just say "Since my husband doesn't believe it, I guess I don't either). Without my "preaching" about it, she seemed to be swayed simply by spending enough time with someone who had a different perspective than what she was used to. They are also taught (to a certain extent anyway) that anyone who was "worldly" (their term for a non-JW) will probably fit a certain stereotype (the ones who slam doors in their faces). I think when you treat them like intelligent human beings who happen to believe differently than you, they respond fairly well. It may not exactly convert them away from it, but it doesn't reinforce the stereotypes they're taught to expect from Atheists/Agnostics, and that in itself will give them a healthier, more realistic view of the outside world. In my wife's case, seeing objectively what other religions thought (and noticing they all had the same "We're the only religion that's right" stance while completely contradicting each other) was enough to make her think she hadn't questioned it enough as a kid.

Now, 10 years after we first met, I get along very well with her entire family. Some are more accepting than others (the toughest being in her extended family), but in general we all get along. We have a sort of unspoken agreement that none of us will try to convert the others, and we just don't talk about it. My contractor and mechanic are both friends of my in-laws, both witnesses, and both have commented to my in-laws how friendly and easy to get along with they find me to be. In a small way, at least I feel like it's made some difference in their perception of non-Christians.

When you talk about trying to "scare them away", keep some things in mind. A lot of them aren't bad people, just simply people who were raised to think a certain way, by someone who had been raised to think the same way, etc. Many of the younger ones are at your doorstep because their parents expect them to be, and they'd potentially be in a very difficult situation if they refused. Every time they tell an elder they had a door slammed in their face, it's more fuel for the people who want them to view the world as black and white/good vs. evil. Pretending you're in the middle of a sacrifice at best makes them think you're completely immature, and at worst it will put more fear of the outside world in them, and push them even deeper into the arms of doing whatever their told. I doubt that's what any of us want to accomplish.

[adler]

I respect your view, but you have not got the whole picture. as an unbaptized witness, your wife is an associate, and as such her family had the option to associate with her as long as there is no opposition to the society [jw movement].
If she were baptized [which they push to do at a young age appx 13 yo] then she left the org. she would be visited by elders who ask for her to go back to the 5 meetings a week or write a letter of disassociation, which would make her in a disfellowshiped state and as such she would not be allowed to talk to or visit with any "JW" in good standing.
If she was baptized she would be disfellowshiped by default if she was caught celebrating her or any ones birthday,Christmas or any other holiday. displaying a us flag, or voting, or any number of other things deemed to be "of the world"
The chain they keep you on is very short.
The Jw's are so controlled that it is very difficult to talk any logic to them, they are from the believe what the society [12 old farts from Brooklyn ny] before you believe your eyes.
The JWs try to put forth that they are a bunch of harmless good people, nothing if farther from the truth, they break up families, destroy relationships, and make their own people feel inadequate about themselves. not to mention they teach the biggest bunch of crap about the end of the world that is supposed to be here soon, and has been for 135 years., They thought that the end of the world was coming in 1874,1914,1916,1918,1924,1945,1951,1975, and the latest date was before 2000. now they just say soon.
They are a cult and nothing more than this. and it is dangerous to let any one you care about associate with them, in the end you are taking a chance of loosing a loved one.

[Juustin]

My point with my backstory was just to show where my viewpoint was. I'm not saying I agree with what they do, and you're 100% correct in all the things you listed. I'm not suggesting the organization itself is a harmless entity.

What I'm saying is, a huge percentage of the people who are part of it were born into it, and have not had any opportunity to think otherwise. I'm suggesting that the most impact you can have on the young ones who come to your door, is to treat them with respect, engage them in conversation, etc. If you slam the door in their face, no one learns anything. If you yell at them, you reinforce what they've been told about non-witnesses, which is a tool their organization uses to scare them into not leaving. In their average day, they don't encounter anyone with a different viewpoint; you're given the opportunity to show them at everyone who isn't a witness isn't "evil", and the biggest thing you can do against the entire organization is to treat the follower like a person and hope you leave some impact on them, so the next time their elder stereotypes everyone in the outside world, they may (although they probably will not) think to themselves "but Mr. Smith didn't act like that..."

[Patsy]

I guess I must be on their "do not call" list. I proposed a deal to the first ones that showed up after I moved into my current home. They could stand in my back yard and pray while I let my dogs loose. If their prayer and their god protected them from my dogs, I'd hear them out. They declined my offer, and I haven't seen any more in over two years.

The thing is, if they had actually had confidence in what they were peddling, and taken me up on the offer, they would have been able to speak with me. While my dogs make enough racket that you would think there was a pack of slavering wolves behind my door, the only way you'd be in any real danger from them is if you are allergic to doggie slobbers :dogt: .

[The Darkest One]

They are a cult and nothing more than this. and it is dangerous to let any one you care about associate with them, in the end you are taking a chance of loosing a loved one.

It is a fine line one has to walk when married to a JW. Too much opposition pushes him/her further into the cult, not enough opposition gives the impression that everything is fine. I have been living this nightmare for 20 years since the woman I love was indoctrinated after a fatefull knock on the door. Her eyes no longer sparkle and we haven't had a meaningfull conversation in years, but I refuse to give up on her!

Make no mistake, this is a dangerous and very nasty little cult. Their lack of media attention is all that saves them from public scrutiny ala Scientology.

[Cactus Wren]

Around here, someone got very creative and printed a sign with a Virgen María (the mexican, of course) that reads (more or less):


This home is Christian and we do not accept propaganda from sects.


This guy must have sold millions...

I wanted to try one of the first posts, going out nude, but my wife worried that they might try to actually get in... :)

I know that those have been around for at least thirty years: "Welcome to this house where Our Lady of Guadalupe is Queen. This is a Catholic house. Propaganda of other religions will not be admitted", is how I remember it.

I had the chance to deal with a JW on another forum. I asked him how he'd react if he came to my door and I offered him the "I'll read your material, if you'll read mine" deal. He said flatly that he would refuse to read anything I offered him, because my offer would be rude and confrontational. Okaaay, I said, let's see if I've got this straight: You are coming to my door, interrupting what I'm doing, taking up my time, but by offering you something to read I'm being "confrontational"?

Yes, he said, because his material is right and mine is wrong.



As to ways of getting rid of religion salespeople: Someone on alt.atheism suggested bringing out a plate of sandwiches, not mentioning that they're made of canned catfood.

One user said that he got a phone call from a neighbor, warning him: The JWs are on their way, they should reach your house soon. Be ready. He was: he arranged to meet them at the door dressed in nothing but salad oil and live snakes.

There's always the sign: I can't link to it yet, but go to www . northernsun . com and type "No Preaching" in the search box.

[Cactus Wren]

It is a fine line one has to walk when married to a JW. Too much opposition pushes him/her further into the cult, not enough opposition gives the impression that everything is fine. I have been living this nightmare for 20 years since the woman I love was indoctrinated after a fatefull knock on the door. Her eyes no longer sparkle and we haven't had a meaningfull conversation in years, but I refuse to give up on her!

Make no mistake, this is a dangerous and very nasty little cult. Their lack of media attention is all that saves them from public scrutiny ala Scientology.

Sorry for the double post, but your posting reminded me intensely of a column from Judith Hayes's sadly defunct "Happy Heretic" series. She mentions an acquaintance of hers, who converted to the WTBTS and took her small children with her: there was a painful description of a six-year-old child, just out of school for the day, and eager to tell her mother how the other children had been making holiday decorations. "But not me, Mommy!" she said in innocent pride at having avoided the Satan-inspired lure of white felt snowmen with glue and glitter. "Everybody else, but not me -- I was strong for Jehovah!"

[adler]

I have a neice that got up in front of her 3rd grade class and said you are all going to die at armagedon because you do not do as jehovah wants. Her mother got red and said I dont know where she got it from, *****, you teach it to her 5 meetings a week and 2 home bible studies a week. garbage in garbage out.