A dowser testing machine

[ohp]

I've been doodling a few designs for a machine that will quickly allow the self-testing of dowsers. I'm thinking of a device that you could take to events and members of the general public could test their ability using the machine.

More details are available at:

http://www.mechtopia.org.uk/blog/mechtopia/entry/the_dowse_o_matic_1000

What do you think? is it an idea that has legs?

With two water paths, how many tests would allow a sensible statistical analysis? Would three water paths be a help or a hindrance?

[Ladewig]

I don't understand how the results are tabulated. There seems to be no way for the testers to know which pipe contained the running water. Do they rely on the computer output? If that is the case, then I suggest adding a method for a tester to actually see which pipe has the running water. Without that, the dowser could claim that his results are correct and the solenoids malfunctioned

Why are the vents necessary?

Do you know dowsers willing to be tested?

[ohp]

I don't understand how the results are tabulated. There seems to be no way for the testers to know which pipe contained the running water. Do they rely on the computer output? If that is the case, then I suggest adding a method for a tester to actually see which pipe has the running water. Without that, the dowser could claim that his results are correct and the solenoids malfunctioned


I want this device to be able to run unattended, or at least with minimal involvement from a tester. I foresee having flow detectors, so that the unit can self diagnose a failed solenoid. I probably should have elaborated on the hidden area... I want to have panels that can be moved, such that at any point, the dowser can see which way the water is flowing. Obviously, the action of removing the panels will freeze out any subsequent selection, but it will allow the dowser to calibrate, and to see that there's no shenannigans going on.


Why are the vents necessary?


When the solenoid is closed, the vents allow the water to flow away. Otherwise the water would just remain in the pipe.


Do you know dowsers willing to be tested?

The idea is to encourage anyone to have a go... even skeptics :-)

[ohp]

I just had a flash of inspiration. Rather than having a button, the act of revealing the path through which you think the water was travelling would constitute a vote for that path. I'd just need to put a microswitch on each panel.

That makes it nice and simple too.

[gfunkusarelius]

bravo for effort, but how many tests of dowsing do we need to bother with? if it hasn't been definitely debunked by now, it never will be.

Or maybe your goal is to automate the process so we don't have to spend any more time setting up a test, haha.

[ohp]

bravo for effort, but how many tests of dowsing do we need to bother with? if it hasn't been definitely debunked by now, it never will be.


I'm not setting out to debunk dowsing.. I think you're missing the point.


Or maybe your goal is to automate the process so we don't have to spend any more time setting up a test, haha.

That's closer to the idea. The idea isn't trying to persuade you about dowsing, or to be honest, even the die hard dowsers - they'll always be able to rationalise why such a device cannot capture their unique skill.

But skeptics and die hard dowsers aren't a significant part of the population. There's the remaining 99.9% of people, a significant proportion of which think there might be something in dowsing, but would never go to the effort of researching the issue, or the extremes of actually performing a scientific test of their own.

If only there was a way of bringing that scientific method to the masses, some way of distilling that scientific method into a gizmo that eliminated the tedium... something not too onerous on the mind, perhaps even something that's fun, something engaging.

Through the wonders of technology I've succeeded in making money from people who can't sing (in fact, they make more money than those who can!). I'm not sure if I will succeed in turning science into a carnival sideshow, but it's worth a shot!

[Akhenaten]

A dowser testing machine

I have some thoughts for a four-stage process that I saw alluded to in another thread somewhere.


1. Minefield

2. Dowser

3. ???

4. Profit


Does this seem workable?

[kuroyume0161]

2. Blindfolded Dowser

Updated. That would just make it so much more enjoyable. ;)

[kuroyume0161]

ohp, while I understand where you are going here it is not assured that it would have the desired effect. First, people would need to, ugh, read instructions and figure out how to make it work for the testing. Then the testees would probably cry foul that the device is rigged somehow because its so darned complicticated. Making it a 'fair' device is one thing. Making it so that even an average person (I opted for being nice) could understand the principle is another. Solenoid isn't something that an average person typically understands. Maybe if it were simply mechanical?

[Akhenaten]

Updated. That would just make it so much more enjoyable. ;)




:D ty

[ohp]

ohp, while I understand where you are going here it is not assured that it would have the desired effect. First, people would need to, ugh, read instructions and figure out how to make it work for the testing. Then the testees would probably cry foul that the device is rigged somehow because its so darned complicticated. Making it a 'fair' device is one thing. Making it so that even an average person (I opted for being nice) could understand the principle is another. Solenoid isn't something that an average person typically understands. Maybe if it were simply mechanical?

True, an average person doesn't understand what a solenoid is, but vending machines use solenoids, and yet I don't see people running away screaming "I can't get a coffee! I don't understand the schematic!" :)

The trick is making it simple to use, like a vending machine, but not to hide anything away. If some people cry foul, then so be it - that's the nature of the beast. I think it would be interesting to analyse people's post-hoc rationalisations.

I need to create a sketch of the external appearance. I've also modified the design slightly in light of some of the feedback.

And if it looks like a vending machine, it might be because I used to work for a vending machine company :-)

[kuroyume0161]

There you go. Have it dispense a snack when the dowser succeeds (and nothing when they don't). I have visions of chimpanzee experiments in my head. :)

[ohp]

There you go. Have it dispense a snack when the dowser succeeds (and nothing when they don't). I have visions of chimpanzee experiments in my head. :)

That might be a challenge, having a snack with the longevity required for a statistically significant series of tests - even vending machine coffee powder only has a shelf life of a few hundred years.

[Brian-M]

I have a better idea.

Make a turntable about 3 meters (10 feet) in diameter, end set it up so a brake automatically stops it turning when the motor is switched off. (And maybe attach something to the turntable to make a noise as it spins, so you can be sure that it's stopped.)

Place a (covered) large tub of water on the turntable, and build an enclosure around and over the turntable with a series of removable panels all around the top.

Run the turntable for a few minutes and switch it off. The tub of water could be under any panel.

Challenge dowsers to work out which panel the tub of water is under. Offer them bets. If they get it right, and the tub of water is under, or even partially under the panel, you pay them $20. But if they're wrong, they pay you $20. Then you put the panel back on and run it again.

You could make a lot of money from dowsers who refuse to accept that dowsing just doesn't work. :)

[ohp]

I have a better idea.

Make a turntable about 3 meters (10 feet) in diameter, end set it up so a brake automatically stops it turning when the motor is switched off. (And maybe attach something to the turntable to make a noise as it spins, so you can be sure that it's stopped.)

Place a (covered) large tub of water on the turntable, and build an enclosure around and over the turntable with a series of removable panels all around the top.

Run the turntable for a few minutes and switch it off. The tub of water could be under any panel.

Challenge dowsers to work out which panel the tub of water is under. Offer them bets. If they get it right, and the tub of water is under, or even partially under the panel, you pay them $20. But if they're wrong, they pay you $20. Then you put the panel back on and run it again.

You could make a lot of money from dowsers who refuse to accept that dowsing just doesn't work. :)


Now, in the UK, the line between gambling (for which you need a license) and a mere competition, is that it involves an element of skill.

Now this is an interesting idea, because from the participants point of view, it is a game of skill, but the scientific consensus is that it would be a game of chance.

I'm unwilling to be in the position where I'm compelled to define this difference in a court of law :)

The whole idea of having a bucket of water is an idea... Many dowsers, however, will claim that their power only works with moving water, which is how they distinguish between an "underground stream" and damp soil or grass. I think this is something that Chris French has come across in his testing, even though he has a calibration element to the tests (where the dowsers detect buckets of water without the water being obscured)

Perhaps having a number of fundamentally different tests might help dowsers chose the method that they prefer. This might be machine number 2 :-)