Jesus isn't coming back?!

[AvalonXQ]

“If Jesus came back and saw what was going on in his name, he would never stop throwing up.” --Woody Allen

;)

Neverending vomit would be miraculous, I guess... :p

[James in New York]

:)

[Paulhoff]

How is "magical thinking" different from "being wrong"?
Because those that are wrong can be show that and will change their thinging, Magical thinkers can't and/or won't change thier minds when shown to be wrong.

Paul

:) :) :)

[AvalonXQ]

Because those that are wrong can be show that and will change their thinging, Magical thinkers can't and/or won't change thier minds when shown to be wrong.

Ah, okay. So if somebody is persuaded by your clearly superior position, they weren't using "magical thinking" after all. But if someone who is wrong continues to argue with you, they're obviously practicing "magical thinking".
Sorry, but your definition doesn't do any work. It doesn't have any predictive power or help us understand correct from incorrect processes. As such, I reject it.
Merv's definition works.

[Paulhoff]

Ah, okay. So if somebody is persuaded by your clearly superior position, they weren't using "magical thinking" after all. But if someone who is wrong continues to argue with you, they're obviously practicing "magical thinking".
Sorry, but your definition doesn't do any work. It doesn't have any predictive power or help us understand correct from incorrect processes. As such, I reject it.
Merv's definition works.
You like to play mind games, you're not good at it.

Paul

:) :) :)

[AvalonXQ]

You like to play mind games, you're not good at it.

I like to have legitimate substantive discussions, but apparently you prefer snark. Good day, sir.

[paximperium]

I like to have legitimate substantive discussions, but apparently you prefer snark. Good day, sir.
This is of course a blatant lie.

[edge]

This is of course a blatant lie.

I don't think so Pop Off is always poping off.
I mean paulhoff is pophoff no wait palua is Pual.
Forget it!!!

[edge]

God help me....

[RandFan]

God help me.... God doesn't like Christians. Sorry.

[dafydd]

God doesn't like Christians. Sorry.
Many Christians don't like Christians.

[paximperium]

I don't think so Pop Off is always poping off.
I mean paulhoff is pophoff no wait palua is Pual.
Forget it!!!
That was probably the most coherent post you've posted in years. Congrats in making some progress.

[edge]

That was probably the most coherent post you've posted in years. Congrats in making some progress.


So from my viewpoint when are you going to start?

It's really funny how all Christians from your viewpoint are incoherent.

Remeber this; just when you think you know it all, you find out that you know nothing at all. :)

[paximperium]

So from my viewpoint when are you going to start?

It's really funny how all Christians from your viewpoint are incoherent. No. I've read many coherent and even reasonable Christian viewpoint and beliefs. Many I disagree with and many with no evidence to back it up but they are coherent.

Your post are not.


Remeber this; just when you think you know it all, you find out that you know nothing at all. :) Great advice. You should follow it.

[Paulhoff]

I don't think so Pop Off is always poping off.
I mean paulhoff is pophoff no wait palua is Pual.
Forget it!!!
Stop being a child.

Paul

:) :) :)

[Paulhoff]

I like to have legitimate substantive discussions, but apparently you prefer snark. Good day, sir.
No, you what to play twist the word games.

Paul

:) :) :)

[AvalonXQ]

Stop being a child.

Can't. Part of the religion. ;)

[paximperium]

Stop being a child.

Paul

:) :) :)
Please don't insult children.

[RandFan]

Many Christians don't like Christians. Well they've got that in common.

[RandFan]

Remeber this; just when you think you know it all, you find out that you know nothing at all. Oddly enough atheists are one group who don't think they know it all. In fact they know they don't know it all.

Theists on the other hand...

[AvalonXQ]

Oddly enough atheists are one group who don't think they know it all. In fact they know they don't know it all.

You know this, do you? :rolleyes:

[kuroyume0161]

You know this, do you? :rolleyes:

I'm quite certain that I don't know what he's talking about. :confused:;)

[RandFan]

You know this, do you? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yes, of course, if it weren't true they would abandon science.

Scientist 1: What shall we do today?
Scientist 2: Nothing.
Scientist 1: Why do you say that?
Scientist 2: We know it all.
Scientist 1: Want to get a beer?
Scientist 2: I was thinking a tittie bar.

[RandFan]

Oddly enough atheists are one group who don't think they know it all. In fact they know they don't know it all. You know this, do you? :rolleyes:

Actually this is a bit clever (I say a "bit clever") and deserves a better response. I "know it" in the colloquial sense. If most if not all answers to scientific questions raise exponentially more questions then, the more we know the more we know we don't know.

I'm not saying "I know that we don't know all" in any absolute sense but it is a reasonable conclusion given the limits of epistemology. If you prefer that unlike theists who are certain about absolute truth, scientists are reasonably certain that they don't know it all then that's fine by me.

[Pure Argent]

It's really funny how all Christians from your viewpoint are incoherent.

No, I'm pretty sure it's just you and yrreg. The other Christians on this board are often quite eloquent, even if their beliefs differ from ours. Darth Rotor, AvalonXQ, RevDisturba... even Ethnikos, to a point. kurious_kathy at least manages to get her point across, even if it is trite and kind of pathetic.
Your posts are just gibberish.

[RandFan]

...Darth Rotor... Ethnikos...My personal favorites. I give Ethnikos a hard time but truth be told I really enjoy reading his posts. Darth Rotor? Well, he's Darth Rotor. Prolific, wity and sharp. I'd be damn proud to have him on my debating team and would throw back a beer with him at the drop of a hat.

[Pure Argent]

Darth Rotor? Well, he's Darth Rotor. Prolific, wity and sharp. I'd be damn proud to have him on my debating team and would throw back a beer with him at the drop of a hat.

Same here. Well, not the beer, but he's certainly one of the posters I respect most around here. Plus he plays a good cleric.

[edge]

Scientist 1: What shall we do today?
Scientist 2: Nothing.
Scientist 1: Why do you say that?
Scientist 2: We know it all.
Scientist 1: Want to get a beer?
Scientist 2: I was thinking a tittie bar.

We are not talking about science and because some one is Christian does not mean we don't believe in its laws.

We’ll never know all of science and all there is to know about God.

The only evidence we can give is the evidence that has synched it for us.
The way you think we view science is really a model that you use regarding religion.

Fixed it for you:

Atheist 1: What shall we do today?
Atheist 2: deny god and religion
Atheist 1: Why
Atheist 2: We know it all.
Atheist 1: Want to get a beer?
Atheist 2: I was thinking a booby bar.

And you keep going down that wide road…

Do you get it or shall I make it more coherent?
Should suffice though but here, let me be brutal, you just keep on sinning.

The scientific laws and procedures is something we accept, so don’t even go there, Gods laws are something you don’t believe in or reject.
Pot calling the kettle black.

[edge]

Stop being a child.

Paul

:) :) :)

Chill I was just trying to get a rise out of you.

Trying to get you to lighten up a bit your taking this too seriously and getting angry for nothing.

I can give you a whole list of things I have experienced that have convinced me this is a spiritual world.

I talked tonight with an old high school friend who is now a pastor and he told me stories that have convinced him, it was very interesting, want to know?
It's the little confirmed experiences that can do it for a person that is searching that can be undeniable proof for some.

[RandFan]

We’ll never know ...all there is to know about God.We don't know anything about god. We don't even know if god exists. Some people have lots of speculation but no knowledge.


Atheist 1: What shall we do today?
Atheist 2: deny god and religion
Atheist 1: Why
Atheist 2: We know it all.
Straw man. Show me a scientist that says "we know it all"?

Gods laws are something you don’t believe in or reject.How do you know there is a god? How do you know it's mind?

[RandFan]

I can give you a whole list of things I have experienced that have convinced me this is a spiritual world.I can show you a whole lot of Mormons who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Joseph Smith is a prophet of god.

I can show you a whole lot of Scientologists who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Scientology is true.

I can show you a whole lot of Hindus who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Hinduism is true.

Same with JW's, Seventh Day Adventists, etc., etc..

[AvalonXQ]

I can show you a whole lot of Mormons who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Joseph Smith is a prophet of god.

I can show you a whole lot of Scientologists who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Scientology is true.

I can show you a whole lot of Hindus who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Hinduism is true.

I can show you a whole lot of atheists who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that there is no god.

[Paulhoff]

I can show you a whole lot of atheists who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that there is no god.
Can you show something that shows that there is a need for a so-called god or is that something only showing a lack of knowledge on our part.

Paul

:) :) :)

[edge]

I can show you a whole lot of Mormons who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Joseph Smith is a prophet of god.

I can show you a whole lot of Scientologists who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Scientology is true.

I can show you a whole lot of Hindus who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that Hinduism is true.

Same with JW's, Seventh Day Adventists, etc., etc..

Yes this is true and it says test them, test their spirit, test the spirits that are in your presences.
I find all those in your list lacking, dangerous and false.

[Paulhoff]

Yes this is true and it says test them, test their spirit, test the spirits that are in your presences.
I find all those lacking, dangerous and false.
And what is your proof of a spirit, and what is the need for one for starters.

Paul

:) :) :)

[edge]

Can you show something that shows that there is a need for a so-called god or is that something only showing a lack of knowledge on our part.

Paul

:) :) :)


He seems to be working through many people, in many ways where it is needed.
What's lacking is enough people that believe to carry out the mission’s necessary.

The missions needed to be filled are for example, where war torn countries are in need of supplies that are ordinary and necessary for all that were corrupted by their former governments and leaders either through greed or lust , selfishness.

They are able to go into these countries and through prayer receive donations and accomplish those needs miraculously, confirmed from incedensces that seemingly come from no where to the normal person but not to the believers who prayed for action there is no doubt where that help has arrived from.

As long as there is crime greed lust and all that, there is a need for us to know God.

We do not know the entire mind of God but he does revel his prescience a little at a time.

Will Jesus return ???
He hasn’t left.

Will he return in the flesh, so that we in the flesh will see? It is written he will but the time he will is hidden for reasons we can’t quit comprehend,
other than having faith.

Faith in God is the only thing holding you back.

[edge]

And what is your proof of a spirit, and what is the need for one for starters.

Paul

:) :) :)


This is what my friend told me last night.

One of his missions right after the cold war ended was to take said supply’s there.
Mostly he took the children school supplies like pens, calculators, food, and medicines.
While on the way he wished to see snow on the ground there because that was the season for it.
That year was very dry and there was none, which was very unusual, he was going to Moscow to see Red Square and he prayed to see snow exactly when his foot hit the first brick there.

It was a simple request that happened exactly as he wished to see.
As soon as his foot hit that brick it started to snow and the weather became normal.
It’s the little things that make and hold a believer in his faith.

You got to remember it’s what God is doing today.
He will revel himself to you if you want.
To any believer it isn’t God that tells you to kill your neighbor, son of Sam knew who it was.

Your spirit is what is angry, with us at yourself.
That part of you is your spirit.

[Paulhoff]

He seems to be working through many people, in many ways where it is needed.
What's lacking is enough people that believe to carry out the mission’s necessary.
That is a believe, and a believe is not a proof.

Paul

:) :) :)

[edge]

That is a believe, and a believe is not a proof.

Paul

:) :) :)

When you see this kind of proof as a believer over and over again it all adds up.
The good things that are happening.

:)

[Paulhoff]

You got to remember it’s what God is doing today.
He will revel himself to you if you want.
To any believer it isn’t God that tells you to kill your neighbor, son of Sam knew who it was.

Your spirit is what is angry, with us at yourself.
That part of you is your spirit.
Again, belief is not proof of a spirit and you still have not shown any need for one. And to tell me that I angry is an accusation that you have no proof of. It has nothing to do with proof, it only has to do with what you think and/or believe, it is religious double talk.

Paul

:) :) :)

[edge]

We live in a wounderful age and we will see it all come to pass.

[Pure Argent]

Atheist 1: What shall we do today?
Atheist 2: deny god and religion
Atheist 1: Why
Atheist 2: There is no evidence for god's existence.
Atheist 1: Want to get a beer?
Atheist 2: I was thinking a booby bar.

FTFY

When you see this kind of proof as a believer over and over again it all adds up.
The good things that are happening.

:)

Note highlighted. Maybe you should read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias).

[edge]

Again, belief is not proof of a spirit and you still have not shown any need for one. And to tell me that I angry is an accusation that you have no proof of. It has nothing to do with proof, it only has to do with what you think and/or believe, it is religious double talk.

Paul

:) :) :)

What your missing is belief that then brings you confirmation of the proof.
When I was an atheist I looked for proof I found it through the negative aspects and then through the positive, if there is a negative there must be a positive.

It was the long way around.

[Paulhoff]

We live in a wounderful age and we will see it all come to pass.
Really, that has been said for the last 2,000 years, and all thought (believed) that they where right, and of course you are, but not them.

Paul

:) :) :)

[edge]

FTFY



Note highlighted. Maybe you should read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias).

belief perseverance (when beliefs remain after the evidence for them is taken away)[8]


How about when you can't take the evidence away?
We are not talking about one minds interpretation, but a collective group of minds experiences over centuries.

You can't take away the personal experiences.
God is a personal experience
This is what you’re missing.

[Pure Argent]

How about when you can't take the evidence away?

It's irrelevant. The evidence has been taken away.

We are not talking about one minds interpretation, but a collective group of minds experiences over centuries.

Such as?

You can't take away the personal experiences.
God is a personal experience
This is what you’re missing.

However, personal experiences are remarkably unreliable sources of evidence. I would start talking about willful delusions, hallucinations, memory alteration, et cetera, but I know I wouldn't get anywhere.

[edge]

Really, that has been said for the last 2,000 years, and all thought (believed) that they where right, and of course you are, but not them.

Paul

:) :) :)

First off they are missing something in their predictions and that is, that no one knows the exact date and time, only Jesus.

They were preaching falsely
We are not pure enough to look into the future.
That was one of the gifts that the Father bestowed on Jesus, among others.

[Paulhoff]

You can't take away the personal experiences.
God is a personal experience
This is what you’re missing.
I can believe anything, it doesn't make to true.

You say there is a so-called god, why not many so-called gods. We can play the word game too. Prove that there aren't many so-called gods.

Paul

:) :) :)

[edge]

It's irrelevant. The evidence has been taken away.



Such as?



However, personal experiences are remarkably unreliable sources of evidence. I would start talking about willful delusions, hallucinations, memory alteration, et cetera, but I know I wouldn't get anywhere.

You'll know it's none of these when it happens, to you personally.
Not only that but there will be confermations that it is true.

[paximperium]

You'll know it's none of these when it happens, to you personally.
Not only that but there will be confermations that it is true.
All hail Zeus!!

[RandFan]

I can show you a whole lot of atheists who have a whole list of things that they have experienced that convinced them that there is no god. Yeah, it's called evidence, or more specifically speaking, the lack thereof.

[Pure Argent]

You'll know it's none of these when it happens, to you personally.
Not only that but there will be confermations that it is true.

And again.

personal experiences are remarkably unreliable sources of evidence. I would start talking about willful delusions, hallucinations, memory alteration, et cetera, but I know I wouldn't get anywhere.

[edge]

I can believe anything, it doesn't make to true.

You say there is a so-called god, why not many so-called gods. We can play the word game too. Prove that there aren't many so-called gods.

Paul

:) :) :)

So called Gods, there were many who wanted to be.

Read this: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe061.htm Could this be where all those so called Gods came from why there were so many?


And this: http://bibleprobe.com/miracles.htm

Negitive and positive.

[RandFan]

Yes this is true and it says test them, test their spirit, test the spirits that are in your presences.
I find all those in your list lacking, dangerous and false.But they found the truth through their experiences. I thought that was the way to find truth?

BTW: Religion is a function of familial ties, in group pressure and geography. Had you been born in India you would likely be Hindu. Saudi Arabia, Muslim.

Give me 1000 people. Tell me what their family believe, what their friends believe and where they grew up. I can predict with very high statistical probability their religion.

Why is the truth a function of geography?

[gambling_cruiser]

You'll know it's none of these when it happens, to you personally.
Not only that but there will be confermations that it is true.
This certainty only proves that the delusion is a mighty one, nothing else.

[RandFan]

You'll know it's none of these when it happens, to you personally.
Not only that but there will be confermations that it is true. This is exactly what my Mormon friends tell me. This is what most if not all religions tell us.

[paximperium]

So called Gods, there were many who wanted to be.

Read this: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe061.htm Could this be where all those so called Gods came from why there were so many?


And this: http://bibleprobe.com/miracles.htm

Negitive and positive.
So-called gods is inaccurate. Myths and delusions are more apt.

[edge]

I got to go do things now, see ya!
Wouldn't want to be ya! :):):)

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent
personal experiences are remarkably unreliable sources of evidence. I would start talking about willful delusions, hallucinations, memory alteration, et cetera, but I know I wouldn't get anywhere.

Your right you wont get anywhere.

[paximperium]

I got to go do things now, see ya!
Wouldn't want to be ya! :):):)
Yup, being rational is very difficult. Being a Fundie troll is very easy.

[RandFan]

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent
personal experiences are remarkably unreliable sources of evidence. I would start talking about willful delusions, hallucinations, memory alteration, et cetera, but I know I wouldn't get anywhere.

Your right you wont get anywhere.You can't change the minds of most Mormons because their experiences tell them that Jospeh Smith was a prophet. They believe it absolutely. I gave up two years of my life to serve a mission because I was convinced.

[Pure Argent]

Your right you wont get anywhere.

Thank you, yes, that is what I said. My point is, edge, that you can believe with all your heart that you met Jesus in a Starbucks and he bought you a mocha latte with chocolate sprinkles and told you the meaning of life. You can believe this so strongly that it becomes the basis of your being. You can believe this so strongly that you think it is the one unshakable fact in all the universe... and you could still be wrong.

[AvalonXQ]

Thank you, yes, that is what I said. My point is, edge, that you can believe with all your heart that you met Jesus in a Starbucks and he bought you a mocha latte with chocolate sprinkles and told you the meaning of life.

Hey, edge, could you tell me where this Starbucks is, please? I bet Jesus knows the perfect way to order that latte.

[Pure Argent]

Hey, edge, could you tell me where this Starbucks is, please? I bet Jesus knows the perfect way to order that latte.

Actually, he just asked for water. Cheaper that way.

[AvalonXQ]

Actually, he just asked for water. Cheaper that way.

Wait, so in addition to making wine, bread, and fishes, you're now telling me the Son of God can make... chocolate sprinkles?!?!
Ha! My Diety wins! :D

[Paulhoff]

Actually, he just asked for water. Cheaper that way.
Makes his own wine from water.

Paul

:) :) :)

[dafydd]

Yes this is true and it says test them, test their spirit, test the spirits that are in your presences.
I find all those in your list lacking, dangerous and false.

And if they found you false? Who should we believe?

[edge]

Hey, edge, could you tell me where this Starbucks is, please? I bet Jesus knows the perfect way to order that latte.

Who do think I had to go and meet? :)

[edge]

And if they found you false? Who should we believe?

It's common knowledge among Christians, there are instructions, but you have chosen to ignore them.

Cart before the horse doesn't work.

[kuroyume0161]

It's common knowledge among Christians, there are instructions, but you have chosen to ignore them.

Cart before the horse doesn't work.

What are these instructions, exactly?

[Pure Argent]

It's common knowledge among Christians, there are instructions, but you have chosen to ignore them.

Cart before the horse doesn't work.

The instructions are invalid if Christianity is invalid - and you have yet to prove that it is valid. You are the one putting the cart before the horse, I'm afraid.

[dafydd]

It's common knowledge among Christians, there are instructions, but you have chosen to ignore them.

Cart before the horse doesn't work.

I've never heard of these instructions,so I'm not ignoring them.Care to elaborate? Why are the Hindus wrong? Do you have proof that they believe in false gods?

[Elizabeth I]

This is what my friend told me last night.

One of his missions right after the cold war ended was to take said supply’s there.
Mostly he took the children school supplies like pens, calculators, food, and medicines.
While on the way he wished to see snow on the ground there because that was the season for it.
That year was very dry and there was none, which was very unusual, he was going to Moscow to see Red Square and he prayed to see snow exactly when his foot hit the first brick there.

It was a simple request that happened exactly as he wished to see.
As soon as his foot hit that brick it started to snow and the weather became normal.
It’s the little things that make and hold a believer in his faith.

:rolleyes: There aren't enough eye-rolls to adequately characterize such tripe. Are you really not ashamed of yourself for believing, and promoting, this maudlin superstition?

Actually, he just asked for water. Cheaper that way.

Yeah, 'cause then he could turn it into wine.

[edge]

There aren't enough eye-rolls to adequately characterize such tripe. Are you really not ashamed of yourself for believing, and promoting, this maudlin superstition?



You ask for proof and I give you some you want to know how to get it I tell you, you then make fun of a persons beliefs.
It's not me who will be ashamed.

The instructions are simple you must be re-born again.
This simply means believing that Jesus is real and died on the cross for all of us...
An affirmation of Christ.

Then patience.

The only thing that is relevant in the Hindu religion is soul travel.
They believe in the soul, from there it breaks down.

You don’t have to believe in their religion to practice that, if
you follow those instructions on how to accomplish that and you do,
you will know there is more to this world then what you think….
;)

[AvalonXQ]

The instructions are simple you must be re-born again.
This simply means believing that Jesus is real and died on the cross for all of us...
An affirmation of Christ.


It also means being immersed in water for the remission of your sins. As Jesus told Nicodemus, "Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

[paximperium]

You ask for proof and I give you some you want to know how to get it I tell you, you then make fun of a persons beliefs.
It's not me who will be ashamed. What proof? All anyone seems to see are pure bare assertions. Assertions are not "proofs".

The instructions are simple you must be re-born again.
This simply means believing that Jesus is real and died on the cross for all of us...
An affirmation of Christ. To believe, you must first believe. Yeah, it's as stupid as it sounds.

The only thing that is relevant in the Hindu religion is soul travel.
They believe in the soul, from there it breaks down. So says you. The hundreds of millions of Hindus say otherwise.

You don’t have to believe in their religion to practice that, if
you follow those instructions on how to accomplish that and you do,
you will know there is more to this world then what you think….
;) Why should anyone waste their time on something you have never proven?

[Elizabeth I]

You ask for proof and I give you some you want to know how to get it I tell you, you then make fun of a persons beliefs.
It's not me who will be ashamed.

The instructions are simple you must be re-born again.
This simply means believing that Jesus is real and died on the cross for all of us...
An affirmation of Christ.

Then patience.

The only thing that is relevant in the Hindu religion is soul travel.
They believe in the soul, from there it breaks down.

You don’t have to believe in their religion to practice that, if
you follow those instructions on how to accomplish that and you do,
you will know there is more to this world then what you think….


So God will take the time to make sure your friend can build snowmen or make snow angels or write his name in the snow but sees nothing wrong with letting millions of children die every day?

Nice set of priorities He's got there.

And I did not make fun of your beliefs. I said they were maudlin superstition. I was serious as a heart attack.

[edge]

It also means being immersed in water for the remission of your sins. As Jesus told Nicodemus, "Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

True.
This is a regular part of the process; I was baptized at an early age.

They don't seem to really want to know in here?

[Pure Argent]

True.
This is a regular part of the process; I was baptized at an early age.

They don't seem to really want to know in here?

It's not really a case of "not wanting to know". It's more a case of knowing and just not giving a crap, honestly. I was a Catholic. Now I'm not. You can't preach anything to me that I don't know already, and it didn't convince me the first time around. Why should I care now?

[edge]

To believe, you must first believe. Yeah, it's as stupid as it sounds.
No…you must first believe to know, follow the simple instructions and truly mean it, to know there is a God…the proof will come to you personally.

Your faith will become stronger.

[edge]

It's not really a case of "not wanting to know". It's more a case of knowing and just not giving a crap, honestly. I was a Catholic. Now I'm not. You can't preach anything to me that I don't know already, and it didn't convince me the first time around. Why should I care now?

What made you quit?

[paximperium]

No…you must first believe to know, follow the simple instructions and truly mean it, to know there is a God…the proof will come to you personally.Yup. It still sounds astounding circular and stupid.

Your faith will become stronger.For "faith" to become stronger, you need proof? You obviously think little of "faith".

[edge]

Yup. It still sounds astounding circular and stupid.
For "faith" to become stronger, you need proof? You obviously think little of "faith".

Your name suits you.
No offence.

[Pure Argent]

What made you quit?

A lot of things. The main thing was a kind of innate skepticism that I've always had, a built-in bent towards logic and demands for evidence.
Eventually, I realized that it was impossible to reconcile my skepticism with my religion. There wasn't any evidence for Jesus, or really for a god of any kind. The teachers at my faith formation groups tried to tell me that evolution was false, when clearly it was true. Even a ten-year-old could see that it made perfect sense, and it didn't need magic to work. Magic, I had long ago learned, was very definitely not real.
And magic wasn't the only unreal thing. Santa wasn't real, the Easter bunny wasn't real, the Tooth Fairy wasn't real... and, when it came down to it, none of the reasons people gave for saying that Jesus was real was satisfactory. In the end, he was just like the rest of the baby stories: a comforting story told to little children to make them not be afraid of the boogeyman. Don't be frightened of Satan, children, Jesus will protect you.
And so I lost faith. And, to this day, I have not seen a single shred of evidence, not a single sound argument put forth for the existence of the Christian god. I have seen evidence, again and again, that faith does nothing supernatural. Again and again, I have seen evidence that reason can help the world. I have seen ordinary humans working to help each other, no god needed. To this day, I have not seen a single reason to return to my faith.
That is why I am no longer religious.

[paximperium]

Your name suits you. That's nice. Was that suppose to change how circular and illogical your "argument" was suppose to be?

No offence.
Why should it offend me when you seem fascinated at a name I created for a computer game when I was 12?

[Pure Argent]

Your name suits you.
No offence.

What? Pax imperium means "peace of the empire". You do know that, right?

[paximperium]

What? Pax imperium means "peace of the empire". You do know that, right?
It's actually grammatically wrong. It's suppose to be Pax Imperia but Imperium sounds way cooler.

[edge]

That's nice. Was that suppose to change how circular and illogical your "argument" was suppose to be?

Why should it offend me when you seem fascinated at a name I created for a computer game when I was 12?

Not the one over your head the one below your knees, or your avatars knees.

[paximperium]

Not the one over your head the one below your knees, or your avatars knees.
Ahhhh, it's really cool isn't. I actually found it being used by some woo anti-vaxxer and Christian Scientist nutters. I found it hilariously ironic to use the Quack avatar because of what I do in real life.

Oh wait, was that suppose to magic your irrational arguments into something intelligent again?

[edge]

A lot of things. The main thing was a kind of innate skepticism that I've always had, a built-in bent towards logic and demands for evidence.
Eventually, I realized that it was impossible to reconcile my skepticism with my religion. There wasn't any evidence for Jesus, or really for a god of any kind. The teachers at my faith formation groups tried to tell me that evolution was false, when clearly it was true. Even a ten-year-old could see that it made perfect sense, and it didn't need magic to work. Magic, I had long ago learned, was very definitely not real.
And magic wasn't the only unreal thing. Santa wasn't real, the Easter bunny wasn't real, the Tooth Fairy wasn't real... and, when it came down to it, none of the reasons people gave for saying that Jesus was real was satisfactory. In the end, he was just like the rest of the baby stories: a comforting story told to little children to make them not be afraid of the boogeyman. Don't be frightened of Satan, children, Jesus will protect you.
And so I lost faith. And, to this day, I have not seen a single shred of evidence, not a single sound argument put forth for the existence of the Christian god. I have seen evidence, again and again, that faith does nothing supernatural. Again and again, I have seen evidence that reason can help the world. I have seen ordinary humans working to help each other, no god needed. To this day, I have not seen a single reason to return to my faith.
That is why I am no longer religious.

I don't belong to any church per say.
I learned more away and seen more on my own.
That's all I will tell you.

[edge]

Ahhhh, it's really cool isn't. I actually found it being used by some woo anti-vaxxer and Christian Scientist nutters. I found it hilariously ironic to use the Quack avatar because of what I do in real life.

Oh wait, was that suppose to magic your irrational arguments into something intelligent again?

Doctor right?

[edge]

Single too right?

[edge]

Farly young but balding?

[edge]

Am I Right?
I see more but won't say.

[paximperium]

Am I Right?
I see more but won't say.
Please say more. It's very amusing to see your true colors.
Your ability to click on my profile is truly astounding.

[edge]

Please say more. It's very amusing to see your true colors.
Your ability to click on my profile is truly astounding.

Never looked.

[edge]

Did look at pure agents, to see what sex he / she was.

[edge]

I have a mental picture of you.
Don't know why?

[edge]

Your a smoker? I won't say what?

[paximperium]

I have a mental picture of you.
Don't know why?Because you have nothing intelligent to say?

[paximperium]

Wow. A Hot Reading from a fundie. I'm so amazed.

[Pure Argent]

Did look at pure agents, to see what sex he / she was.

You could have asked. I have never concealed the fact that I am a dude. Plus, y'know, my title is "Certified Castlevania Fanboy". Note the last word.

It's actually grammatically wrong. It's suppose to be Pax Imperia but Imperium sounds way cooler.

This is true.

I don't belong to any church per say.
I learned more away and seen more on my own.
That's all I will tell you.

Did I ask?

[edge]

Your parents believe?

[Pure Argent]

I have a mental picture of you.
Don't know why?

I would be interested to see what yours is of me.

[edge]

You could have asked. I have never concealed the fact that I am a dude. Plus, y'know, my title is "Certified Castlevania Fanboy". Note the last word.



This is true.



Did I ask?

I seen it when I came back to this page.

[paximperium]

Your parents believe?
Believe in what? Flying monkeys?

[Pure Argent]

Your parents believe?

One does. The other pretends for the sake of my siblings. The believer wishes to raise them religious; the other sees it as best not to argue. Why I couldn't speculate. Well, I could, but I wouldn't presume to speak for them. Their motivations are their own.

[edge]

I'm not trying to argue with you guys just tell what the evedence was that convinced me and some others.

[paximperium]

I would be interested to see what yours is of me.
Multi-billionaire playboy who dresses in leathers, fights crime and has a teenage boy in tights living with him?

[Pure Argent]

Multi-billionaire playboy who dresses in leathers, fights crime and has a teenage boy in tights living with him?

That's Bruce Wayne, not Simon Belmont.

[paximperium]

I'm not trying to argue with you guys just tell what the evedence was that convinced me and some others.
"But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it."
-Thomas Paine, Age of Reason

No one cares about your anecdotes. Where is your evidence?

[edge]

Wow. A Hot Reading from a fundie. I'm so amazed.

Some kind of connection.

Don't know don't exactly know why, I am in Florida.
Lived in Northern California, the two hottest spots.

[paximperium]

That's Bruce Wayne, not Simon Belmont.
Hmmm...angsty teenager who is sent to a small town but falls in love with a lusty vampire that glows?

[Pure Argent]

Hmmm...angsty teenager who is sent to a small town but falls in love with a lusty vampire that glows?

Teenager, oddly with no angst, which is sent on a mission to Translyvania by the Church. He is granted a whip, infused with the power of pure vengeance and with the ability to destroy all vile spawn of darkness, which is named Vampire Killer. He singlehandedly dismembers each and every one of Dracula's legion of hellspawn, each created using a soul from the damned prisoners of Hell itself, and eventually destroys Death himself in an epic confrontation in the clock tower. Finally, in a titanic battle of wills, Simon is able to defeat Dracula himself and seal him away once again...

[edge]

"But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it."
-Thomas Paine, Age of Reason

No one cares about your anecdotes. Where is your evidence?

It's in my mind and that is first hand to you.

[paximperium]

It's in my mind and that is first hand to you.
This we can agree on.

[paximperium]

Teenager, oddly with no angst, which is sent on a mission to Translyvania by the Church. He is granted a whip, infused with the power of pure vengeance and with the ability to destroy all vile spawn of darkness, which is named Vampire Killer. He singlehandedly dismembers each and every one of Dracula's legion of hellspawn, each created using a soul from the damned prisoners of Hell itself, and eventually destroys Death himself in an epic confrontation in the clock tower. Finally, in a titanic battle of wills, Simon is able to defeat Dracula himself and seal him away once again...
I thought that was Alucard...or was it that other Belmont...sorry, too many.

Pssst: Simon didn't seal Dracula away unless you play the reverse level ;)

[Pure Argent]

I thought that was Alucard...or was it that other Belmont...sorry, too many.

Most of them. Only Julius actually succeeded in destroying Dracula.

Pssst: Simon didn't seal Dracula away unless you play the reverse level ;)

I'm speaking of the original Castlevania. I think you've gone into the realm of other appearances of Simon.

[Elizabeth I]

I don't belong to any church per say.
I learned more away and seen more on my own.
That's all I will tell you.

per se. It's Latin. Means "by, of, for, or in itself; intrinsically." You know, there are dictionaries online.

You saw more on your own.


Did look at pure agents, to see what sex he / she was.

Pure Argent. "1. Heraldry The metal silver, represented by the color white; 2. Archaic Silver or something resembling it." Wow, from the same online dictionary.


I seen it when I came back to this page.

Again, you saw it.

Your apparent ignorance of grammar and spelling only adds to the sense of your incoherence and lack of ability to recognize evidence, examine it, or come to a logical conclusion.

Finally, are you claiming that you learned the details you mentioned about Paximperium through psychic means? What will your God think about that after telling His people not to suffer a witch to live?

[edge]

per se. It's Latin. Means "by, of, for, or in itself; intrinsically." You know, there are dictionaries online.

You saw more on your own.




Pure Argent. "1. Heraldry The metal silver, represented by the color white; 2. Archaic Silver or something resembling it." Wow, from the same online dictionary.




Again, you saw it.

Your apparent ignorance of grammar and spelling only adds to the sense of your incoherence and lack of ability to recognize evidence, examine it, or come to a logical conclusion.

Finally, are you claiming that you learned the details you mentioned about Paximperium through psychic means? What will your God think about that after telling His people not to suffer a witch to live?

Some ones got their pantys in a bunch...LMAO

[Elizabeth I]

Some ones got their pantys in a bunch...LMAO

Looking in a mirror, are you?

[edge]

Finally, are you claiming that you learned the details you mentioned about Paximperium through psychic means? What will your God think about that after telling His people not to suffer a witch to live?


Never said that.


You read into things that are not there.


What will your God think about that after telling His people not to suffer a witch to live?


Reference please?

A skeptic using the Bible against a christain, LMAO.

[edge]

Looking in a mirror, are you?

Way off accually a monitor.

[edge]

per se. It's Latin. Means "by, of, for, or in itself; intrinsically." You know, there are dictionaries online.

You saw more on your own.

Yes I do mostly firewood.

English sucks you know this... in common conversations,{ seen} is what is regularly used.
There's lots of quirks with English.
What Ever!

I keep seeing proof it never stops, clear enough.

[edge]

I learned more away and seen more on my own.


Hows this?

I learned more away and have seen more on my own.

Turn around and i will help you.....:)

[HansMustermann]

Reference please?

Exodus 22:18

Just for ease of checking it out:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+22%3A18&version=KJV

It's probably the most (in)famous verse in the whole bible, as it was the justification for hundreds of years of witch hunts.

A skeptic using the Bible against a christain, LMAO.

A lot of us have read it and, judging by your asking for a reference for one of the best known verses in it, I'd say actually remember it better than _some_ fundies. Not meant as an offense or anything, but, really, don't assume that we're skeptics and atheists for lack of knowing what it says in there. For many it's the exact opposite.

Heck, around the forum we actually have a few atheists who are ex-ministers. (Not me, though, sadly.) Now those know their bible real good.

[edge]

Exodus 22:18

Just for ease of checking it out:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+22%3A18&version=KJV

It's probably the most (in)famous verse in the whole bible, as it was the justification for hundreds of years of witch hunts.



A lot of us have read it and, judging by your asking for a reference for one of the best known verses in it, I'd say actually remember it better than _some_ fundies. Not meant as an offense or anything, but, really, don't assume that we're skeptics and atheists for lack of knowing what it says in there. For many it's the exact opposite.

Heck, around the forum we actually have a few atheists who are ex-ministers. (Not me, though, sadly.) Now those know their bible real good.


I know where it's at, I didn't ask you.
But that's cool.


See the bottom line is that you are judging me or she was.
First off... if I were an atheist that could be true, however, you do not say it came from Jesus,
Maybe because I asked him who it was that was speaking to me.

Jesus can show a believer not just the evil one. When that happens it's a revelation.

Since you all know so much about the Bible you shouldn’t make accusations with out really thinking about it. :)

[HansMustermann]

Hmm? I'm really not seeing the connection between the part you quoted and your answer.

[paximperium]

Hmm? I'm really not seeing the connection between the part you quoted and your answer.
There isn't.

It is an attempt to deflect attention from something he can't answer. Instead of being honest, he slings insults or throws red herring in an attempt to deflect attention away from the simple fact that he does not have a reply, so he goes off into preaching mode. I've seen 12year olds with more rhetorical style than that.
No…you must first believe to know, follow the simple instructions and truly mean it, to know there is a God…the proof will come to you personally.

Your faith will become stronger.

Yup. It still sounds astounding circular and stupid.
For "faith" to become stronger, you need proof? You obviously think little of "faith".

Your name suits you.
No offence.
So before your derail Edge my boy, why do you think so little of faith? Why do you need "proof" to strengthen your faith?

[HansMustermann]

Well, even slinging insults would be one thing, but the last post doesn't even work as an insult.

Best I can figure out, it quotes my post, then answers as if by proxy to something actually said by Elizabeth I.

And even at that it isn't even as much insulting, as... scary. Jesus told him/her/it who paximperium is? Now that's the point when it turns from just "another true believer" to "psychotic."

I hope it was just digging oneself into a hole trying to defend an earlier insult, and not the genuine thing.

But either way I want to take it, it's neither a very good insult nor going to boost the credibility of one's claims.

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

''Every man's life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguish one from another''

[Elizabeth I]

{ seen} is what is regularly used.

Not among people with at least a sixth-grade education or more.

Yes I do mostly firewood.

English sucks you know this... in common conversations,{ seen} is what is regularly used.
There's lots of quirks with English.
What Ever!


I've often noticed that fundies are as passionately devoted to preservation of their ignorance as they are to their religion.

[edge]

''Every man's life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguish one from another''

True.

[edge]

Not among people with at least a sixth-grade education or more.



I've often noticed that fundies are as passionately devoted to preservation of their ignorance as they are to their religion.


There you go again.
Why is it that certain people have the need to put down others?
When I was a skeptic I never did that to religious people, or mocked anyone’s beliefs.
You people are too angry in here.
Not lively or friendly at all.
Matter of fact I think you spend too much time in here.
Ready to go have a drink or a beer or something? I’ll buy.
Geez…

[KingMerv00]

''Every man's life ends the same way."

Man, I hope not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputin).

[paximperium]

There you go again.
Why is it that certain people have the need to put down others?
When I was a skeptic I never did that to religious people, or mocked anyone’s beliefs.
You people are too angry in here.
Not lively or friendly at all.
Matter of fact I think you spend too much time in here.
Ready to go have a drink or a beer or something? I’ll buy.
Geez…
Hello Edge.
Playing the martyr and victim seems to be the MO of fundies so your little act after your little tirade is most hypocritical.

Oh did you forget my simple question that you cowardly ran away from?:
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5379817&postcount=378
"So before your derail Edge my boy, why do you think so little of faith? Why do you need "proof" to strengthen your faith?"

[Paulhoff]

There you go again.
Why is it that certain people have the need to put down others?
When I was a skeptic I never did that to religious people, or mocked anyone’s beliefs.

Mocking, well it is like this Edge, you come to a forum that has people that want proof, and you don't give it, you only give how you think it is and only use one source as proof which has no weight here. And when they tell you that what you give as proof isn’t really proof you call it mocking. When they tell you that your responses aren’t coherent, you call it mocking. When they tell you that they have heard it all before and gave it no credit then and why should they now, again, you call it mocking.

Beliefs and religions get no special privileges here.

Paul

:) :) :)

[edge]

Originally Posted by paximperium
Hello Edge.
Playing the martyr and victim seems to be the MO of fundies so your little act after your little tirade is most hypocritical.

Oh did you forget my simple question that you cowardly ran away from?:
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...&postcount=378
"So before your derail Edge my boy, why do you think so little of faith? Why do you need "proof" to strengthen your faith?"

First off I am not even close to being a martyr or victim.
I have no idea why you would think that I... think little of faith.
There's a great deal that is hidden away from my self as well as others.
I need no more proof, I have received all I need to turn me back to God and to definitely know this is a spiritual world.
When Jesus said “you will see me returning in the clouds”, this is exactly what people have reported when dying, not only that but also being in the dark with others, I believe he meant it in two ways physical and most definitely spiritual.
So when he said, "this generation shall not pass without seeing me return in the clouds", this is what he meant, the new covenant would be in place, everything changed judgment is now immediate..

I bring you what I know, seen, experienced, because this is what we are supposed to do.....

But I got to tell you my patience is wearing thin.

If there was a way I could totally delete my profile in here I would, because you people are scary and heartless, hiding behind your avatars so you can say the nastiest things you want to say and most of you are afraid to put up a picture of yourselves in your profiles, why is that?
What do you have to hide form?
I believe that most all of the believers in here would agree me.

Don’t give me your crap that your so tired of hearing the religious ignorance, or that we are, for believing.
If you were so sure of yourselves you wouldn’t be in here 24/7….

I have to say this now; from our point of view it is you that are ignorant, blind, and deaf.

Tell me how can I totally delete my profile in here and I will never come back, the only thing that gets me in here is reading your stupid tripe and observations.
You ask the questions, when answers are given, all you do is mock people for there beliefs.
Like this,

I've seen 12year olds with more rhetorical style than that.

I have been to the other side in the dark and the light, trust me you don’t want to know what’s waiting for you in the dark, keep on thinking the way you do and you will see sooner or later, believe it or not.
Remember this, I was once like you, a stupid atheist and skeptic…about God.

It's Not me that needs proof, there are instructions to get proof read up.... you all seem to have missed it.

You people are so blessed but you don't give credit or thanks.

I try to avoid sin and walk with God, but coming in here hurts my mind, because of the evil you spout.


Now answer my questions, there's only two.

[Foster Zygote]

It's in my mind and that is first hand to you.

No, Edge, it isn't. Not even remotely.

[Foster Zygote]

Now answer my questions, there's only two.
You mean these two?
If there was a way I could totally delete my profile in here I would, because you people are scary and heartless, hiding behind your avatars so you can say the nastiest things you want to say and most of you are afraid to put up a picture of yourselves in your profiles, why is that?
What do you have to hide form?
You're just engaging in more of the misdirection that Pax mentioned. People aren't hiding behind their avatars and screen names any more than you are. In fact, a number of people use their own image in their avatar. You need only look a few posts up to see an example of this.

[Elizabeth I]

If there was a way I could totally delete my profile in here I would, because you people are scary and heartless, hiding behind your avatars so you can say the nastiest things you want to say...

:rolleyes:


and most of you are afraid to put up a picture of yourselves in your profiles, why is that?


Oh, so are you really Jesus Christ, or is that an angel?


You're just engaging in more of the misdirection that Pax mentioned. People aren't hiding behind their avatars and screen names any more than you are. In fact, a number of people use their own image in their avatar. You need only look a few posts up to see an example of this.

Some people even put pictures of their children in their avatars - don't think they would do that if they believed this forum was populated by dangerous psychopaths.

[paximperium]

First off I am not even close to being a martyr or victim. Then stop whining like a child.
There's a great deal that is hidden away from my self as well as others.
I need no more proof, I have received all I need to turn me back to God and to definitely know this is a spiritual world.
<Snipped irrelevant garbage filled preaching>So why did you say?
No…you must first believe to know, follow the simple instructions and truly mean it, to know there is a God…the proof will come to you personally.

Your faith will become stronger.
You specifically said that as you get proof your faith strengthens therefore you need proof to strengthen your faith.

I bring you what I know, seen, experienced, because this is what we are supposed to do..... And I bring to you the simple fact that your anecdotes and claims without any evidence is classed the same as that raving lunatic down the street who thinks he is Jesus incarnate. No one has any reason to believe you.

If there was a way I could totally delete my profile in here I would, because you people are scary and heartless, hiding behind your avatars so you can say the nastiest things you want to say and most of you are afraid to put up a picture of yourselves in your profiles, why is that?
What do you have to hide form?
I believe that most all of the believers in here would agree me. Waaaah. Yeah whine whine whine and play the self-righteous martyr.

Don’t give me your crap that your so tired of hearing the religious ignorance, or that we are, for believing.
If you were so sure of yourselves you wouldn’t be in here 24/7…. That is inherently the stupidest reasoning but I'm not surprised. You are amusement. A little ball to kick when I'm bored.

I have to say this now; from our point of view it is you that are ignorant, blind, and deaf. Yeah I know. It says so in the Bible therefore it must be true. You don't need to do any thinking at all. It says so in the Bible. :rolleyes:

You ask the questions, when answers are given, all you do is mock people for there beliefs. Hahahaha...didn't like to the original post did you? You didn't answer the original question but dodged it. That is called nothing more than a dishonest rhetorical device. In other words you never answered the questions.

Sorry pal, you say really stupid things. Sorry if people point out how stupid they are.

I have been to the other side in the dark and the light, trust me you don’t want to know what’s waiting for you in the dark, keep on thinking the way you do and you will see sooner or later, believe it or not. More anecdotal nonsense.
Remember this, I was once like you, a stupid atheist and skeptic…about God. I don't believe you. You have never shown a hint of knowing what a skeptic means or is, unless you mean skeptic to mean some random person who never cares about god/lapses Christian who suddenly found religion due to some emotional event and not rationality, research or thinking...then sure yeah.

It's Not me that needs proof, there are instructions to get proof read up.... you all seem to have missed it. Why do you hate Faith?

I try to avoid sin and walk with God, but coming in here hurts my mind, because of the evil you spout. Closing your mind and not thinking is very easy isn't it?

Now answer my questions, there's only two.Questions? Where?

[Pure Argent]

If there was a way I could totally delete my profile in here I would, because you people are scary and heartless, hiding behind your avatars so you can say the nastiest things you want to say and most of you are afraid to put up a picture of yourselves in your profiles, why is that?
What do you have to hide form?
I believe that most all of the believers in here would agree me.

This is the single most idiotic, childish thing I have ever seen. "Oh, the big bad atheists are using their internet anonymity to attack my self-esteem! They're just bullies who want to make me cry!"
Grow up.
No one's keeping you here. We are not physically capable of forcing you to come here, to participate in these discussions. If you don't want to hear what we have to say, go away. Don't post your arguments for logical discussion, then start bawling when you get smacked down because your ideas are terrible. We aren't hiding from anything. You are.

[Ignatowski]

Originally Posted by paximperium




Don’t give me your crap that your so tired of hearing the religious ignorance, or that we are, for believing.
If you were so sure of yourselves you wouldn’t be in here 24/7….




You do realize that this is false.....people are subscribed to the thread and get an email when the post is added...thats how everyone is so quick to respond to you....also, when are believers like yourself going to understand that stories and second hand information and various other forms of unverifiable anecdotes are not acceptable as proof...

[edge]

I found a photo thread in here, now I know what's up.

Paximperium your answers make no sense.

Pure argent, talk about whining, you haven't smacked anything down, not for a long time.

Whatever!

[Pure Argent]

I found a photo thread in here, now I know what's up.

Enlighten us. I wasn't aware that anything was up.

Pure argent, talk about whining, you haven't smacked anything down, not for a long time.

I wasn't talking about me. Generally, when I join the conversation, you're already dead and mangled. Everyone else seems to be better at finding your threads than I am. When I do join in, though, your arguments are extremely weak and easy to refute. You have yet to have made a single decent argument in all the time I've seen you here.

[edge]

You do realize that this is false.....people are subscribed to the thread and get an email when the post is added...thats how everyone is so quick to respond to you....also, when are believers like yourself going to understand that stories and second hand information and various other forms of unverifiable anecdotes are not acceptable as proof...

I know all about it and the e-mails, I have given them the real information and how to find out for sure in a personal way, to them.

I really am not going to lose sleep over this.

It is true when they mock and throw out insults.
I can say, when are the skeptics going to get it?
To try the instructions, try... to see.

[edge]

Enlighten us. I wasn't aware that anything was up.



I wasn't talking about me. Generally, when I join the conversation, you're already dead and mangled. Everyone else seems to be better at finding your threads than I am. When I do join in, though, your arguments are extremely weak and easy to refute. You have yet to have made a single decent argument in all the time I've seen you here.

I am not here to argue.
I have given information, take it or leave it.
I do know that in the real world your more humble, I have talked to many skeptics away from here, you should apply that here.

At any rate I hope you all have a merry Chrismas, I'll be gone for a while to Trinadad, time for a vacation.

By the way I have been in and out of here since 99, so see ya on the beach.

[Ignatowski]

I know all about it and the e-mails, I have given them the real information and how to find out for sure in a personal way, to them.

I really am not going to lose sleep over this.

It is true when they mock and throw out insults.
I can say, when are the skeptics going to get it?
To try the instructions, try... to see.

You seem to be forgetting that so many of the posters here that are atheists were once very religious and highly educated when it comes to religion....they know the so-called instructions you are talking about...probably better than you do..they just realize that just because people interpret certain occurances as works of god and drawing conclusions from little bits of information is not proof....for you it is proof because you want it to be.

Also, ...you have to realize that every believer that comes along on this board to convert atheists basically uses the same circular logic and same unimpressive anecdotes over and over again...come up with substantial proof , even a little , and show that you actually understand what the other posters are trying to say to you and people may stop mocking you so much....

[Pure Argent]

I am not here to argue.
I have given information, take it or leave it.

I'll leave it, thanks, since it isn't particularly convincing stuff.

I do know that in the real world your more humble, I have talked to many skeptics away from here, you should apply that here.

I'm humble here, most of the time. I'm by no means one of the smarter posters. But I do know when my opponent's argument is full of fallacies - and it is, when I argue against you.

At any rate I hope you all have a merry Chrismas, I'll be gone for a while to Trinadad, time for a vacation.

By the way I have been in and out of here since 99, so see ya on the beach.

Have a good trip (and yes, I do mean that sincerely)! Merry Christmas to you too.

[popscythe]

Man some of these threads are knee deep in textual assault.

Wish I had started reading this board earlier, I could have gotten my licks in too.

[Foster Zygote]

I can say, when are the skeptics going to get it?

When someone provides empirical evidence supporting the veracity of your claims over the thousands of other claims with the same level of evidence.

[kuroyume0161]

When someone provides empirical evidence supporting the veracity of your claims over the thousands of other claims with the same level of evidence.

I'll just add: been there, did that.

As another poster mentioned, some of us are recovering/recovered believers. I was a devout christian for nearly half my life, read the bible, and almost entered seminary. My current stance isn't based upon hate, refusal, or disenchantment. It is based upon knowledge and learning.

[Foster Zygote]

I'll just add: been there, did that.

As another poster mentioned, some of us are recovering/recovered believers. I was a devout christian for nearly half my life, read the bible, and almost entered seminary. My current stance isn't based upon hate, refusal, or disenchantment. It is based upon knowledge and learning.

Me too. As a child, I remember listening to Focus on the Family on the radio and being taught that the theory of evolution by natural selection was a plot conceived of by Satan himself. I remember constantly hearing that the Rapture was expected very soon (Hal Lindsey proved it). I've met a few people who assume that I had some sort of traumatic experience with some religious authority figure and that I am simply rebelling out of outrage. I call that assumption the "Touched by an Angel sydrom". The truth is that I never had any sort of traumatic experience with religion. The pastors and other religious people I knew I recall as being very nice people.

[paximperium]

Paximperium your answers make no sense.
This is another example of your dishonesty. You are simply unable to provide any substantial retort and just claiming something by fiat does not magic it into reality. I have shown that you have no arguments, just anecdotes and logical fallacies. No faith, just a facade of it.

[kurious_kathy]

I'll just add: been there, did that.

As another poster mentioned, some of us are recovering/recovered believers. I was a devout christian for nearly half my life, read the bible, and almost entered seminary. My current stance isn't based upon hate, refusal, or disenchantment. It is based upon knowledge and learning.

Excuse me, but I do not believe there is any such thing as a recovered believer, you are an apostate along with many others out there who once said they were believers in Christ. Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times, which is another absolute sign that Jesus is returning very, very soon. "The words, look up for your redemption draws near" are words I can here him say. The church needs to wake up and realize there are still many who need help being pulled out from the pit. Believe me, hell is nowhere anyone wants to end up, Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!

[kuroyume0161]

Excuse me, but I do not believe there is any such thing as a recovered believer, you are an apostate along with many others out there who once said they were believers in Christ. Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times, which is another absolute sign that Jesus is returning very, very soon. "The words, look up for your redemption draws near" are words I can here him say. The church needs to wake up and realize there are still many who need help being pulled out from the pit. Believe me, hell is nowhere anyone wants to end up, Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!

Despite my adamant vehemence, I don't hate christians. I hate christianity. In other words, I don't hate people but I hate that which drives them irrationally. One may take this as a twist on 'hate the sin, not the sinner'. As stated, my problem with the validation of christianity as anything other religion provides is the lack of actual verification in a evidential sense (not an ecumenical sense).

BTW, I love your little pesci (ichthys) (<><). :)

I see no pits, only pitfalls.

[HansMustermann]

Excuse me, but I do not believe there is any such thing as a recovered believer, you are an apostate along with many others out there who once said they were believers in Christ. Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times, which is another absolute sign that Jesus is returning very, very soon. "The words, look up for your redemption draws near" are words I can here him say. The church needs to wake up and realize there are still many who need help being pulled out from the pit. Believe me, hell is nowhere anyone wants to end up, Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!

Yes, well, that's what apostasy means, you know?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apostate

1. a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc.

So, really, "there are no recovered believers, there are only apostates" is exactly as silly a word game as, say,

- "there are no software developers, there are only programmers"

- "there are no illegitimate children, there are only bastards"

- "this isn't a madhouse, it's a hospital for people with psychiatric problems" (gotten verbatim by a friend of mine from an orderly, and lemme tell you it didn't calm his fears at all;))

Etc.

Anyway, call it what you will, it's the same thing. If "apostate" sounds better to you, then wth, some of us are apostates.

[Elizabeth I]

Excuse me, but I do not believe there is any such thing as a recovered believer, you are an apostate along with many others out there who once said they were believers in Christ. Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times, which is another absolute sign that Jesus is returning very, very soon. "The words, look up for your redemption draws near" are words I can here him say. The church needs to wake up and realize there are still many who need help being pulled out from the pit. Believe me, hell is nowhere anyone wants to end up, Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!


:rolleyes:

[CriticalSock]

Jesus Saves!!

And that's why he doesn't lose his word documents when his PC crashes!

There's a lesson to be learned there people, pay heed!

[Foster Zygote]

Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times...

Where exactly?

[Pure Argent]

Excuse me, but I do not believe there is any such thing as a recovered believer, you are an apostate along with many others out there who once said they were believers in Christ. Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times, which is another absolute sign that Jesus is returning very, very soon. "The words, look up for your redemption draws near" are words I can here him say. The church needs to wake up and realize there are still many who need help being pulled out from the pit. Believe me, hell is nowhere anyone wants to end up, Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!

But he wasn't a true Scotsman!

[Paulhoff]

Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!
Well, it seems you do and you can't get that monkey off your back.

Once again, according to your belief, Jesus is a so-called god, and according to your belief, so-called gods don't die. According to your belief he sits on the right hand side of his father, a so-called god, more proof to you that he still exist. So where is the dying part, that body dying part, the body that your so-called belief doesn't like anyway and is the cause of all that sinning because it is so weak.

I’ve told you before, take credit for getting your life straighten out, but no, you listen to others that are your support group. Support groups can be good, but if they don’t let you grow-up and become self-sufficient, then they become a hindrance. Until you see this you’ll never see the so-called light.

Paul

:) :) :)

[arthwollipot]

Excuse me, but I do not believe there is any such thing as a recovered believer, you are an apostate along with many others out there who once said they were believers in Christ. Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times, which is another absolute sign that Jesus is returning very, very soon. "The words, look up for your redemption draws near" are words I can here him say. The church needs to wake up and realize there are still many who need help being pulled out from the pit. Believe me, hell is nowhere anyone wants to end up, Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!AvalonXQ - you were asking about magical thinking? There's a prime example right there. Believing that things can exist without natural explanations or causes. "Another absolute sign" of something - prophecy. Even though prophecy has been shown countless times to be inaccurate, magical thinkers rely on it regardless.

[dafydd]

Excuse me, but I do not believe there is any such thing as a recovered believer, you are an apostate along with many others out there who once said they were believers in Christ. Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times, which is another absolute sign that Jesus is returning very, very soon. "The words, look up for your redemption draws near" are words I can here him say. The church needs to wake up and realize there are still many who need help being pulled out from the pit. Believe me, hell is nowhere anyone wants to end up, Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!

Which pit would this be Kathy? I'm not in one.How soon is very,very soon? Care to give us a date?

[AvalonXQ]

AvalonXQ - you were asking about magical thinking? There's a prime example right there. Believing that things can exist without natural explanations or causes. "Another absolute sign" of something - prophecy. Even though prophecy has been shown countless times to be inaccurate, magical thinkers rely on it regardless.

I've managed to sail along without directly interacting with kathy up to this point. I wonder if it's time I engaged her.

[Pure Argent]

I've managed to sail along without directly interacting with kathy up to this point. I wonder if it's time I engaged her.

Take my advice: don't do it. Nothing good can possibly come of that. She doesn't listen to anything you say. All she does is regurgitate "JESUS LOVES YOU AND YOU WILL BURN IN HELL" mindlessly.

[dafydd]

I've managed to sail along without directly interacting with kathy up to this point. I wonder if it's time I engaged her.

Good luck to you.

[KingMerv00]

I've managed to sail along without directly interacting with kathy up to this point. I wonder if it's time I engaged her.

Do you enjoy talking to broken record players?

[AvalonXQ]

Do you enjoy talking to broken record players?

When I do, I can always click on RPG NPCs more than once.
Kathy, people are saying that you're not much for responsive, intelligent discourse. Is this true?

[kuroyume0161]

When I do, I can always click on RPG NPCs more than once.
Kathy, people are saying that you're not much for responsive, intelligent discourse. Is this true?

As someone who has been on the forum for a few years, I would say that this is true. Hasn't changed since the first post.

[Pure Argent]

Kathy, people are saying that you're not much for responsive, intelligent discourse. Is this true?

Yes. Take it from me. I highly doubt she reads any of the posts in response to her. When she does, it's only to say "But this is wrong because Jesus LOVES YOU!"
It's kinda sad.

[AvalonXQ]

Yes. Take it from me. I highly doubt she reads any of the posts in response to her. When she does, it's only to say "But this is wrong because Jesus LOVES YOU!"
It's kinda sad.

We'll see what she says. :)

[Pure Argent]

We'll see what she says. :)

It's your (mind's) funeral, buddy.

[dafydd]

We'll see what she says. :)

Jesus loves you,we are all wicked,repent or you will burn in hell is par for the course.

[Darth Rotor]

Excuse me, but I do not believe there is any such thing as a recovered believer, you are an apostate along with many others out there who once said they were believers in Christ.
The Prodigal Son parable tells you, from Scripture, how very wrong this statement is. Please read the Good Book, KK, all of it.
Jesus warned us about the great apostasy in the end times, which is another absolute sign that Jesus is returning very, very soon. "The words, look up for your redemption draws near" are words I can here him say. He also said that He will come like a thief in the night*, and that none will know the hour of His return.
The church needs to wake up and realize there are still many who need help being pulled out from the pit. Believe me, hell is nowhere anyone wants to end up,
The usual figure of speech is that Hell is down, and I am not sure that "believe you" is something you've well prepared anyone on this board to do. Each post you make here is a self inflicted wound if your intention is to bring people to Jesus. (And so are a few of my own less civil ones).
Jesus died so we could live. Everybody needs Jesus! <>< Jesus Saves!!
Bumper stickers don't make for much of a conversation.

* = You will be surprised; he'll get +4 to attack and double damage. (for you, AQ ;) ).

DR

[Ladewig]

We'll see what she says. :)

Or not. When people question her about her posts (e.g. Foster Zygote pointing out that Jesus did not warn of great apostasy in the end times) she ignores them and doesn't post at all for a week or two. Then she returns with a but-Jesus-loves-you post and the cycle starts again.

[kuroyume0161]

Or not. When people question her about her posts (e.g. Foster Zygote pointing out that Jesus did not warn of great apostasy in the end times) she ignores them and doesn't post at all for a week or two. Then she returns with a but-Jesus-loves-you post and the cycle starts again.

It must be the programming. It takes a while to configure the 'fundamentalist christian turing machine' to say the same thing but in different ways. ;)

[kurious_kathy]

"Watch out that no one deceives you."

Why all the fear about it I'll never know, the bottom line is no one can say when.
Do the best you can love your neighbor and your God the father.
Some one pulled the triger for the big bang, it is all about moving forward, do it the best you can.
What ever it takes for you...

I agree, love God, and love people. Because I love people, I need to share the truth that can save them, and yet some reject the love of God and this just doesn't make any sense. When we Christians try to share the truth according to God's word, well why do people think it's hate instead of love? It's not hate to share we all need Jesus to forgive our sins, yet others try to turn it around on us and I just do not understand. John 3:16-17 is clear, so why is it not considered loving to share the truth of God's love with people, there's just something really wrong with that.

My struggle as a Christian is how do I not lose heart in a world so filled with evil. Last night I had a nighmare that someone nuked us and it was horrible. I know Jesus is coming back, but I hope it's sooner rather than later.

[qayak]

There's something really wrong with that.

In reference to the bible, this is the first intelligent thing I have read from you.

My struggle as a Christian is how do I not lose heart in a world so filled with evil.

And my struggle as an atheist is to not lose heart at the stupidity of religious belief. I guess we all have our crosses to bear, don't we?

[kurious_kathy]

The Prodigal Son parable tells you, from Scripture, how very wrong this statement is. Please read the Good Book, KK, all of it.
He also said that He will come like a thief in the night*, and that none will know the hour of His return.

The usual figure of speech is that Hell is down, and I am not sure that "believe you" is something you've well prepared anyone on this board to do. Each post you make here is a self inflicted wound if your intention is to bring people to Jesus. (And so are a few of my own less civil ones).

Bumper stickers don't make for much of a conversation.

* = You will be surprised; he'll get +4 to attack and double damage. (for you, AQ ;) ).

DR

Okay DR some could be prodigals like I was, but I never flat out said I don't believe in Jesus, I was just unrepented for many years and wanted life on my own terms, which got me in a whole lot of trouble and nowhere fast. The proof is a changed life, and Jesus is the only one who truly changes us from the inside out.

As for your remark of self inflected wound, it's never wrong for me to want for someone to get saved, NEVER. If there's one thing I know for sure it's this, "if it doesn't mater for eternity, it doesn't matter. God help us all to know him and be saved. Eternity really does matter and nobody wants to end up in hell!

[biomorph]

<snip> wanted life on my own terms, which got me in a whole lot of trouble and nowhere fast.

Maybe your "own terms" weren't well, all that well thought out.......and aren't relevant to anyone else..

I didn't have any problems after I dumped Jebus. My life got a whole lot better without the irrational.

In fact being raised baptist gave so many problems, I attempted to end it all a few times in my teen years, despite my parents being nice pepes.

Give up gods, and live in reality..

The proof is a changed life, and Jesus is the only one who truly changes us from the inside out.


Rubbish. my life has changed so much over the years. My families insane god beleifs stopped me taking responsibility for my life, and getting anywhere.

One of the major changes for the better was getting to the rational conclusion that if i cant change my own life without help, especially without jebus's so-called non-existant help, I might as well end it now.

I did get help from my brain instead, and told religion to play out in the yard with the other irrational unquestioned stupidities I'd dumped there.

It's called "growing up" I think.

As for your remark of self inflected wound, it's never wrong for me to want for someone to get saved, NEVER.

Try it on me and it'll be wrong all right.

It is a fallacy that you can save anyone you, with your imaginary sky daddy in tow.

Saved from what? I needed saving FROM god, because Xinsanity screwed my early social development up.


If there's one thing I know for sure it's this, "if it doesn't mater for eternity, it doesn't matter.


and it doesn't, does it.

God help us all to know him and be saved. Eternity really does matter and nobody wants to end up in hell!

Saved from you.

Tell me, O faithful one, where exactly is hell..? apart from in your 7th century desert dogma's brainwashing idiocies.

[Paulhoff]

I agree, love God, and love people. Because I love people, I need to share the truth that can save them, and yet some reject the love of God and this just doesn't make any sense.
We don't reject a so-called god and its conditional love that the bible talks about, like we don't reject Peter Pan’s and his love.


There is only one thing according to you idea of a so-called god that we have to fear, and that is your so-called god.


Paul

:) :) :)

Please keep your childlish idea of a so-called god to yourself.

[Foster Zygote]

I was just unrepented for many years and wanted life on my own terms, which got me in a whole lot of trouble and nowhere fast. The proof is a changed life, and Jesus is the only one who truly changes us from the inside out.

I know that this has been pointed out to you in the past and I suspect that you will simply ignore it as before, but there are a great many people who "live life on their own terms", that is to say without your dedication to Jesus, who's lives are quite happy and prosperous. Don't assume that the experiences of others who live without Christianity must be the same as your experiences without Christianity.

[HghrSymmetry]

Please keep your childlish idea of a so-called god to yourself.

Paul, I'm shocked! I didn't think you subscribed to the idea of miracles?

[Paulhoff]

Paul, I'm shocked! I didn't think you subscribed to the idea of miracles?
It is only in her head, the idea that is, and as far as I know, she has one.

Paul

:) :) :)

If she doesn't, that would be magic.

[The Fallen Serpent]

Would not the time of the Great Apostasy have come to pass at an earlier time in modern history when apostasy from Christianity was at its height? Or was Deism close enough to not count? The current slide in the religion cycle has only been going on about 20 years in the US, and just recently picking up steam. Europe I think is still somewhat plateaued from the previous slide.

Or perhaps kurious_kathy is prophecying that the upcoming decade is the time and we have swarms of apostates to open our arms to. Good times.

[HghrSymmetry]

It is only in her head, the idea that is, and as far as I know, she has one.

Paul

:) :) :)

If she doesn't, that would be magic.

;)

[Ladewig]

it's never wrong for me to want for someone to get saved, NEVER.

OK, it is never wrong for you to want to save people. On the other hand the particular method you have chosen in your efforts to save us is wrong; it is wrong from center to circumference. Coming to a board populated by professional scientists and telling them that they don't understand the difference between good science and bad science is laughably ineffective.

[edge]

I agree, love God, and love people. Because I love people, I need to share the truth that can save them, and yet some reject the love of God and this just doesn't make any sense. When we Christians try to share the truth according to God's word, well why do people think it's hate instead of love? It's not hate to share we all need Jesus to forgive our sins, yet others try to turn it around on us and I just do not understand. John 3:16-17 is clear, so why is it not considered loving to share the truth of God's love with people, there's just something really wrong with that.

My struggle as a Christian is how do I not lose heart in a world so filled with evil. Last night I had a nighmare that someone nuked us and it was horrible. I know Jesus is coming back, but I hope it's sooner rather than later.

Jesus said that some will not receive it.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

So if you are trying to do truth that's a blessing.
So I guess you can be a good atheist.
But it doesn’t matter.
All the truth is better.
Giving credit and thanks to God counts in humility.

[Hokulele]

So as long as our deeds are not evil, we have nothing to worry about. Got it.