Belief in AGW is a religion!

[MikeMangum]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6494355/Belief-in-man-made-climate-change-as-important-as-religious-faith.html

The lede:
An executive has won the right to sue his employer on the basis that he was unfairly dismissed for his green views. But should environmentalism have the same weight in law as religious and philosophical beliefs?

;)

[athon]

To answer the question, why not?

I think anybody dismissed because they don't share your ideologies or philosophies is pretty messed up.

That said, it depends on how much it interferes with his ability to work. If he were anti-'green' and worked for a company promoting green products, I might think his employer would have the right to be concerned.

Athon

[DogB]

Considering the position was 'head of sustainability', I would have thought that trust in the prevailing scientific hypothesis would have been mandatory.

I’m a little concerned it’s been classified a philosophical belief however.

[LibraryLady]

I've moved this thread to Social Issues and Current Events, since it does not seem to be a discussion of the science involved, but in the legal point.

[mhaze]

It's really very simple.

AGW


A - G - W.

A God of Warming.

[Kritikos]

Let me get this straight: Under present British law, if your employer fires you on account of your beliefs, you can bring suit against him or her only if those beliefs count as "religious or philosophical"? So, for instance, if an employer fires an employee for believing that The Office is not funny, that's quite all right, but if he fires someone for believing that inductive inference rests on habit rather than reason, it's not?

[Eyeron]

I don't know. I have seen many times a denier call the thousands of climatologists and other scientists who support AGW cultists. No joke or sarcasm intended. Has anybody else seen this?

[Perfume V]

I don't know. I have seen many times a denier call the thousands of climatologists and other scientists who support AGW cultists. No joke or sarcasm intended. Has anybody else seen this?

Yeah, just cycle up to mhaze's post. He really believes that.

My own thought on the issue: as with the "atheism takes faith too!" meme, this proves nothing other than "if you redefine religion to mean practically anything, then religion does, in fact, mean practically anything". Big wow.

As for Kritikos's point, IANAL but that would probably come under unfair dismissal laws. Does anyone with a bit more knowledge of UK employment law know why the case in the OP went through a different channel?

[Information Analyst]

Yeah, just cycle up to mhaze's post. He really believes that.

My own thought on the issue: as with the "atheism takes faith too!" meme, this proves nothing other than "if you redefine religion to mean practically anything, then religion does, in fact, mean practically anything". Big wow.

As for Kritikos's point, IANAL but that would probably come under unfair dismissal laws. Does anyone with a bit more knowledge of UK employment law know why the case in the OP went through a different channel?
IANAL, but it looks to me that this initial case was needed to detremine if belief in AGW counted as a belief as covered under the Employment Equality (Religion or Belief) Regulations 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Equality_(Religion_or_Belief)_Regulatio ns_2003). This legislation, of course, also covers lack of belief, say to protect atheists being sacked for being atheist.

[Undesired Walrus]

It's really very simple.

AGW


A - G - W.

A God of Warming.

You don't usually involve the 'A' in acronyms. But you appear to consistently attempt to get the data to conform to your opinion in the AGW debate, so I'm sure you wont stop there.

[GreNME]

Belief in AGW is a religion!

Since the anti-AGW folk seem to be convinced of a conspiracy theory to "hide the truth" I'd say that even as a "religion" it's a damned sight more organized and striving for answers than their opponents.

[tyr_13]

While I'll admit that there are 'AGW believers' for whom it is a religious, zealous belief, I doubt that these outliers constitute the majority of people who believe in AGW.

The zealots tend to be the ones who blindly insist that there must be one main cause and only one, or at most a few, solutions. These are the people who are more accurately described as the 'anti-human' crowd, not AGW believers. Their basic argument is that humans have to revert to older ways of living, die off in mass numbers, and be 'humble' with the Earth. This isn't new woo, it's old woo covered in a green screen.

Don't dismiss AGW just because some nuts scream end of world, tin-foil on head, craziness. That's what we call, 'the excluded middle'.

EDIT: On the case, I don't know. If they were fired just for having the belief, I'd call that wrong. If they were being a right bastard about it, say harassing all the costumers and co-workers about it, that would be one thing. That would be being fired for being a right bastard though, not the belief itself. At any rate, I don't know British law well enough to say I can support an opinion on it.

[KingMerv00]

Let me get this straight: Under present British law...

Just so you know, these kinds of employee protection are far more extensive in Europe than they are in America. In the US, it is basically hire and fire at will.

[Information Analyst]

Just so you know, these kinds of employee protection are far more extensive in Europe than they are in America. In the US, it is basically hire and fire at will.And it should be pointed out that the monetary rewards in most cases are fairly modest. We do see the occasional fired banker asking for gazillions, but mostly the amount of damages actually awarded are equivalent to less than a year's salary. It's seen as a way of conpensating people for a hic-cup in their career, rather than giving them enough so they can retire.

[HansMustermann]

I don't know. I have seen many times a denier call the thousands of climatologists and other scientists who support AGW cultists. No joke or sarcasm intended. Has anybody else seen this?

I'm not even a denier, and I'll call _some_ of the green zealots cultists. No joke intended. It is my firm belief that a lot of those into saving the whole world -- be it from Microsoft, Satan, AGW, Communism, or whatever -- are in it for really the same reasons, and being skeptical or scientific doesn't even enter the equation. The point is playing Messiah, not playing science.

Plus, it's hard not to notice that the following quote applies to a lot of wannabe Messiahs: "It is easier to be a "humanitarian" than to render your own country its proper due; it is easier to be a "patriot" than to make your community a better place to live in; it is easier to be a "civic leader" than to treat your own family with loving understanding; for the smaller the focus of attention, the harder the task." -- Sydney J. Harris

[Darth Rotor]

Plus, it's hard not to notice that the following quote applies to a lot of wannabe Messiahs: "It is easier to be a "humanitarian" than to render your own country its proper due; it is easier to be a "patriot" than to make your community a better place to live in; it is easier to be a "civic leader" than to treat your own family with loving understanding; for the smaller the focus of attention, the harder the task." -- Sydney J. Harris

QFT

[Beerina]

To answer the question, why not?

I think anybody dismissed because they don't share your ideologies or philosophies is pretty messed up.

That said, it depends on how much it interferes with his ability to work. If he were anti-'green' and worked for a company promoting green products, I might think his employer would have the right to be concerned.

Athon


What if their ideologies or philosophies impact your ability to earn a living? Why should someone continue to aid the survival of people whose goofy beliefs tear at the very foundation of your livelihood?

The point of freedom is to be free from being forced to behave according to others' goofy beliefs. That others cannot use force to jam their beliefs down your throat, forcing you to alter your behavior.

[LunchBoxDon]

I believe that there are many people who work for a company that they do not share the same ideology with. I don't think that just because you don't agree with the company line you should be fired, but I guess it would depend on how vocal you were about it.

[MattusMaximus]

It's really very simple.

AGW

A - G - W.

A God of Warming.

Yup, just like how creationists claim that teaching the science of evolution is like "teaching a religion"... :rolleyes: