Welsh police spend £20,000 following up false claims from psychics

[hmmm...]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225417/Police-spend-thousands-investigating-suicide-murder-psychics-claim-spoken-dead-mans-ghost.html


Daily Mail reports Dyfed Powys police force spent about £20,000 chasing false information from a group of psychics who claimed a suicide victim had actually been murdered.

[Nursefoxfire]

From the article:

Yesterday, an officer from the force, who did not want to be named, said: 'We are in danger of becoming a laughing stock.

'We went haring across the country based on info from cranks. Not surprisingly it turned out to be a wild goose chase which cost at least £20,000 in time and resources.'



Gee, ya think?!

[bryan]

With all of the claims of "Psychics" working with Police, have there ever been any cases that you know of that have actually come up with any clues at all?

We have Chirs Moon here using the "Telephone to the Dead" that he claims the Denver Police have re-opened a cold case murder (not that they actually ever close) and that it was his device that gave the Police the new "Evidence". This is of course not true and we have tried to call him on it.

However with all of the "Psychics" claiming to work with the Police and the even bolder claims that they have solved cases is something that I think we in the Skeptical community need to help expose to slow down the damaging of people who have a loved one murdered and the case not solved.

[ohms]

They should be charged under s5 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 with wasting police time.

[Kel]

With all of the claims of "Psychics" working with Police, have there ever been any cases that you know of that have actually come up with any clues at all?

We have Chirs Moon here using the "Telephone to the Dead" that he claims the Denver Police have re-opened a cold case murder (not that they actually ever close) and that it was his device that gave the Police the new "Evidence". This is of course not true and we have tried to call him on it.

However with all of the "Psychics" claiming to work with the Police and the even bolder claims that they have solved cases is something that I think we in the Skeptical community need to help expose to slow down the damaging of people who have a loved one murdered and the case not solved.

Hi bryan, have you seen the Stop Sylvia (http://www.stopsylvia.com) site? It follows the failures of Sylvia Browne.

There may be more sites out there focusing on other specific "psychics", but I am not sure what they are. Perhaps someone else can help me out.

Cheers,
-k

[sphenisc]

They should be charged under s5 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 with wasting police time.

Who? The psychics or the police who listened to them?

[bryan]

Hello...

I know the site well.
Unfortunately it is only known by people in the Skeptical community and only focuses on the one person.
Turn on the History,TLC,Discovery,SyFy,etc... channels and you will find supposed "Psychics" that are currently working with Police on cold cases and current murder and missing persons cases. This is something that I have had to deal with and it is doing such horrible psychological damage to the people who believe that these nuts are telling the truth.

Another good source for the big scam psychics is the badpsychics.uk
They have been a great resource for me in trying to find details on the bigger names.

[ohms]

Who? The psychics or the police who listened to them?


Good question. The psychics.

I think that the police who listened to them should be disciplined.

[jadebox]

Good question. The psychics.

I think that the police who listened to them should be disciplined.

Police have to look into just about everything. For example, the "psychic" could actually know something and just be claiming to have learned it supernaturally.

But, once the police have learned that the information from the alleged psychic is false, there should be a way to punish them for making a false report to the police.

-- Roger

[bryan]

There is a way to punish them at that point. They just need to use the "false reporting" charge and they might actually stop reporting this nonsense.

[Mojo]

Police have to look into just about everything. For example, the "psychic" could actually know something and just be claiming to have learned it supernaturally.


For example: Police in Portugal are poring over messages from self-professed psychics and clairvoyants in an attempt to track down Madeleine McCann, who went missing exactly four weeks ago. Two 8cm-thick files of emails and other communications are being examined in case one of them contains a message from the four-year-old's kidnapper, the detective leading the hunt, Olegario Sousa, said today.

Each clairvoyant's claim was being taken seriously in case they were from the person or people who snatched Madeleine from her parent's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, Chief Inspector Sousa said.

"That is one of the reasons that we cannot discard anything," he said. "We must check them all in case it might be from the kidnapper."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/31/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

[Mojo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225417/Police-spend-thousands-investigating-suicide-murder-psychics-claim-spoken-dead-mans-ghost.html


Daily Mail reports Dyfed Powys police force spent about £20,000 chasing false information from a group of psychics who claimed a suicide victim had actually been murdered.


I like the comment from "Treacle" on there: "This led police to visit more than a dozen pubs named the Red Lion and the Black Horse looking for clues."

Who was leading the investigation, Gene Hunt?

[Darat]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225417/Police-spend-thousands-investigating-suicide-murder-psychics-claim-spoken-dead-mans-ghost.html


Daily Mail reports Dyfed Powys police force spent about £20,000 chasing false information from a group of psychics who claimed a suicide victim had actually been murdered.


Well obviously this is a waste of tax payers' money and should be stamped on but the irony of the Daily Mail wailing about this made me chortle - see: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/jonathan-cainer-the-big-business-of-astrology-512280.html

[andycal]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091106/tuk-police-checked-leads-from-psychics-6323e80.html (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091106/tuk-police-checked-leads-from-psychics-6323e80.html)

It appears the psychics told them to look for some gangsters in pubs called "The Red Lion" - This is the most popular name for a pub in the UK, although it's probably the "Red Dragon" in Wales.

Now your normal psychic would have just left it that, but they went on to tell them that the poor chap had been forced to drink petrol and bleach before being strangled. Eh? Easily checked by the coroner.

Anyway, it was suicide.

[Lothian]

The grauniad put the extra cost of following up these 'leads' at £20,000. The police have an obligation to follow all leads, however there is an argument that when provided by mystics with information from the dead they are wasting police time and should be prosecuted.

[hmmm...]

There's another thread on this already...ok sorted

[hmmm...]

Well obviously this is a waste of tax payers' money and should be stamped on but the irony of the Daily Mail wailing about this made me chortle - see: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/jonathan-cainer-the-big-business-of-astrology-512280.html

Interesting article...

[andycal]

Police have to look into just about everything. For example, the "psychic" could actually know something and just be claiming to have learned it supernaturally.

But, once the police have learned that the information from the alleged psychic is false, there should be a way to punish them for making a false report to the police.

-- Roger

They need to balance it though. Crimestoppers activily encourages people to phone them with any information that may lead to a conviction, they also offer a reward.

I'm sure they get lots of spurious nonsense from people who don't call themselves psychics too, should the prosecute? If they started prosecuting everyone who made a false claim, it would put people off making any claim at all, because then they need to investigate the people making the claims.

What we really need is a police force with common sense and some autonomy.

[hmmm...]

True...it's up to the police to decide the criteria on which to base an investigation. I am amazed that psychics seem to be an accepted source of information.
Is there an official UK police policy on this does anyone know??

[sleepy_lioness]

I think the relevant fact may be that the police found they had to visit every *pub* called The Red Lion within a certain vicinity ...

[Aitch]

With all of the claims of "Psychics" working with Police, have there ever been any cases that you know of that have actually come up with any clues at all?


This (http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=police_and_psychics.php) may be relevant. :cool:

[Elizabeth I]

With all of the claims of "Psychics" working with Police, have there ever been any cases that you know of that have actually come up with any clues at all?

We have Chirs Moon here using the "Telephone to the Dead" that he claims the Denver Police have re-opened a cold case murder (not that they actually ever close) and that it was his device that gave the Police the new "Evidence". This is of course not true and we have tried to call him on it.

However with all of the "Psychics" claiming to work with the Police and the even bolder claims that they have solved cases is something that I think we in the Skeptical community need to help expose to slow down the damaging of people who have a loved one murdered and the case not solved.

Hi bryan, have you seen the Stop Sylvia (http://www.stopsylvia.com) site? It follows the failures of Sylvia Browne.

There may be more sites out there focusing on other specific "psychics", but I am not sure what they are. Perhaps someone else can help me out.

Cheers,
-k

There's also What's the Harm? (http://whatstheharm.net/), which cites cases of woo beliefs leading to actual harm, in response to the "Who is it hurting if I choose to believe in [fill in the blank]?" argument.

[The Fallen Serpent]

This (http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=police_and_psychics.php) may be relevant. :cool:

A very reassuring list of basically "No." I am glad to see that in the UK the brunt of law enforcement there seems to find the idea at least no more worthy than any other random claims they have to sift through in the course of a murder investigation.

[hmmm...]

A very reassuring list of basically "No." I am glad to see that in the UK the brunt of law enforcement there seems to find the idea at least no more worthy than any other random claims they have to sift through in the course of a murder investigation.

Although it also shows this...

"DYFED-POWYS POLICE

16 Mar 2006

I am informed that Dyfed Powys Police has never used psychics.

Debby Jones, Information Officer, Dyfed Powys Police Headquarters "

from the very force who featured in the Mail article.

[Lothian]

Although it also shows this...

"DYFED-POWYS POLICE

16 Mar 2006

I am informed that Dyfed Powys Police has never used psychics.

Debby Jones, Information Officer, Dyfed Powys Police Headquarters "

from the very force who featured in the Mail article.There is a difference between the police approaching a psychic asking them for help and from a 'member of the public' giving 'information' to the police.

[bryan]

At a recent class I attended hosted by our local Police department, a person asked if they used Psychics or followed up on "leads" from Psychics.
The officer teaching the class stated that unfortunately they had to follow all leads that they are given, but he wished that they had a "Special hotline" for psychics to call so they would know who to ignore and actually get the case investigated properly.

[GanipGnop]

And yet stuff like this still happens!?!

Man sacked for belief in psychics backed by judge:

"A police worker who was sacked because he believed psychics can help solve criminal investigations is to go to court today to defend his right to legal protection from religious discrimination".

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=159030

[Belgian thought]

Hope the judge reads this thread before the hearing.

[silver birch]

the tv series psychic private eyes, colin fry etc claimed to locate dead bodies. in fact they did not find one. in colin frys blurb at theatres it said the police contact colin fry to locate dead bodies. it looks like that statement has been dropped after enough complaints.

[GanipGnop]

Hope the judge reads this thread before the hearing.

No such luck! The UK is Doomed how long before the witch trials start?

Plaintiff: "Your Honor, she turned me into a newt.........but I got better"!

Judge: "I find for the Plaintiff.....GUILTY!"


"Police worker wins psychic ruling

A police employee sacked for claiming psychics should be used to crack crimes has won a landmark ruling that his views should be seen as a faith".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/merseyside/8357813.stm

[pakeha]

For example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/may/31/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

Indeed, this was apparently at the parents' insistence.
Danie Krugel was perhaps the most publicised at the time:
http://www.stopdaniekrugel.com/2008/09/rayno-gouws.html

This site gives an idea of the harm the man has done.

[GanipGnop]

I'm still waiting for Connie Sonne to translate the exact location of the missing UK child Maddy Mccann. Sonne has been promising "we'll see" for months now while she wastes time on this very forum assuring us Banachek cheated her (but of course she doesn't care :rolleyes: ). I can't think of anything more cruel than telling the world you know where someone's missing loved one is only to spout non-helpful gibberish as your revelation. If the police are going to insist on wasting money on psychics they should at least keep a database of failures publicly blackball any of failures