Wwjd

[~enigma~]

Extremely funny bumper sticker I saw on the drive into work yesterday that said WWJD - We won, Jesus died. I thought it was funny but a great way to get her (driver had long hair, maybe it was a guy in need of a haircut) car vandalized by a local christian. Got me thinking, you never hear about a christians car being vandalized by atheists or violence against christians (ala Dr. Britton) by atheists. Why are christians so violent?

[Ryan O'Dine]

I don't have numbers (as I suspect you don't), but I'd guess that Christians are about as violent as everyone else, and not generally more so. The fact that they don't appear less so, however, may be a problem for them (according to my understanding of what they themselves profess).

As for atheists, they aren't in the habit of developing sacred cows. Doesn't mean they're less violent, necessarily, just that they may have fewer motivations for getting irrationally violent.

[~enigma~]

I don't have numbers (as I suspect you don't), but I'd guess that Christians are about as violent as everyone else, and not generally more so. The fact that they don't appear less so, however, may be a problem for them (according to my understanding of what they themselves profess).

As for atheists, they aren't in the habit of developing sacred cows. Doesn't mean they're less violent, necessarily, just that they may have fewer motivations for getting irrationally violent.
Guess the point went sailing at an altitude above you. Wasn't claiming atheists are not ever violent or that christians are more violent (although certain happenings in history dictate otherwise). What I was pointing out and asking about is why do christians tend to turn toward violence, rudeness and vandalism when someone believes differently than they do? Are they really that insecure in their beliefs?

[xXMoshtradamusXx]

I really don't know. I just had a Christian friend freak out on me for having this as my desktop background.
http://craigbe.typepad.com/movieblog/WindowsLiveWriter/desktop800x600.jpg

[~enigma~]

I really don't know. I just had a Christian friend freak out on me for having this as my desktop background.
http://craigbe.typepad.com/movieblog/WindowsLiveWriter/desktop800x600.jpg
One thought about buying a bumper sticker that said Atheism is myth understood but I kind of enjoy having a car in operating condition.

[Piscivore]

Got me thinking, you never hear about a christians car being vandalized by atheists or violence against christians (ala Dr. Britton) by atheists. Why are christians so violent?

Who is "Dr. Britton"?

I've never heard of an atheist's car being vandalised by Christians.

What I was pointing out and asking about is why do christians tend to turn toward violence, rudeness and vandalism when someone believes differently than they do?

Wouldn't you first want to establish that this assumption is actually correct before finding out why? I've never been harrased or even treated rudely by anyone because of my lack of belief, and I am completely honest about it. The strongest reaction I've gotten is curiosity.

What I see in acts of extremeism is that certain people have a tendency to think and act in extreme ways, and religion is just one of many rationales (also including "nationalism", "honour", "morality", among others) that such a person might choose from.

I think you might want to read up on "projection".

[~enigma~]

Who is "Dr. Britton"?Dr. John Britton. Shot to death by a christian outside his abortion clinic in 1994.
I've never heard of an atheist's car being vandalised by Christians.I have personally witnessed a car with a Dawkin's fish have the legs broken off and Jesus loves you spraypainted on the rear window. Also I saw my neighbors old van have a pipe put through his rear door just above where his Dawkins fish was. Guess those were not seen by you but that doesn't mean they didn't happen.

[Ryan O'Dine]

Guess the point went sailing at an altitude above you. Wasn't claiming atheists are not ever violent or that christians are more violent (although certain happenings in history dictate otherwise). What I was pointing out and asking about is why do christians tend to turn toward violence, rudeness and vandalism when someone believes differently than they do? Are they really that insecure in their beliefs?

I'll just second Piscivore's response.

ETA: especially
What I see in acts of extremeism is that certain people have a tendency to think and act in extreme ways, and religion is just one of many rationales (also including "nationalism", "honour", "morality", among others) that such a person might choose from.

[Hux]

I have heard of Christians attacking atheists because they were atheists. I have heard of Christians pulling bumper stickers off atheist owned cars. I have heard of Christians keying atheist cars.

Looking around Christian sites I never heard of an atheist attacking anyone in the name of atheism. Sure there are ******** who call themselves atheists but I just havent heard of this kind of thing.

The one I like at the moment is the line from "Creation" the new film on Darwin: "Congratulations Mr. Darwin, you just killed God" :D

[Egg]

Looking around Christian sites I never heard of an atheist attacking anyone in the name of atheism.
What would "in the name of atheism" even mean?

Sure there are ******** who call themselves atheists but I just havent heard of this kind of thing.I'd imagine that a common Christian reply to the car vandalism examples mentioned in this thread would be about the ******* who call themselves Christians.

[Hux]

Have you ever met or heard of anyone who claimed to be an atheist, beat someone up because of their atheism?

I have not. But then, I may have led a sheltered life.

I have no experience, having read both atheism boards and Christian boards of Christians complaining of having their slogans removed or damaged by atheists or anyone.

[~enigma~]

What would "in the name of atheism" even mean?Guess he meant "as an atheist"
I'd imagine that a common Christian reply to the car vandalism examples mentioned in this thread would be about the ******* who call themselves Christians.
As were those that ran the inquisition and pogroms.

[Eyeron]

Actually this is the first time I've seen that particular meaning. The usual meaning is "What Would Jesus Do". Of course I have my own response to that. It's wwsmw.

Or who would Spider-Man web.

In the comics he would sometimes web a person's mouth shut for back talking. The webbing lasts for only an hour the webbing dissolves.

[Hawk one]

I think you might want to read up on "projection".
He could also do well to read up on "wrongly accusing other atheists (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=5274755#post5274755) of being Christians just because they happen to call him out on cherry-picking stuff in the same manner that Christian fundamentalists are prone to do", Piscivore. :D

[Hux]

Thats sounds like an interesting religion. Where do I sign?

[ParrotPirate]

The best I've seen so far are WWJBD (What would Jimmy Buffett do) and WWJWD ( What would John Wayne do).

[Malerin]

Extremely funny bumper sticker I saw on the drive into work yesterday that said WWJD - We won, Jesus died. I thought it was funny but a great way to get her (driver had long hair, maybe it was a guy in need of a haircut) car vandalized by a local christian. Got me thinking, you never hear about a christians car being vandalized by atheists or violence against christians (ala Dr. Britton) by atheists. Why are christians so violent?

Edited for Rule 12

[Eyeron]

My Christian friend likes to say

wwgr.

Or who would God rape.

But she has an off the wall style of humor, even a bit more extreme than mine.

[HansMustermann]

Edited for Rule 12

Even skipping past the irrelevant and ultimately lame ad-hominem, if X keys Y's car just because he didn't like Y's ramblings, it still says something about the vandal's character not the victim's.

[Simon39759]

I sometime use the expression Who would Jesus do, when I want to be an @ss.

[grayman]

I have a shirt I wear that says, "WTFWJD?" with the words spelled out underneath in small letters.

So far, none of the bible-thumpers in these parts have noticed.

[fuelair]

Who is "Dr. Britton"?

I've never heard of an atheist's car being vandalised by Christians.



Wouldn't you first want to establish that this assumption is actually correct before finding out why? I've never been harrased or even treated rudely by anyone because of my lack of belief, and I am completely honest about it. The strongest reaction I've gotten is curiosity.

What I see in acts of extremeism is that certain people have a tendency to think and act in extreme ways, and religion is just one of many rationales (also including "nationalism", "honour", "morality", among others) that such a person might choose from.

I think you might want to read up on "projection".In all fairness, examples have been given in a number of threads on JREF over the years I have been here. Each was admittedly one person's personal/anecdotal experience but there have been several, mentioned, here. And since hardly all the people who have had it happen are on this site.....
Obviously, unless the perp was caught, it is only assumption that the person who did it thought of him/herself as a xtian - but I have not heard of any of the believers here saying their xtian tags/stickers/etc. were ripped off/broken (maybe they do not have any?).
Anyway, anecdotally it does happen that atheist oriented items are damaged, not necessarily all, not necessarilly by xtians, but....

[TimCallahan]

I had a Darwin fish on a car I once owned. While it was never vandalized, I did find plenty of anonymous notes placed nder my windshield wipers. Often, it would just be a citation of Biblical verse, usually "John 3:16," i.e.:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Once, I found a note that likened me to those who ran concentration camps for the Thrid Reich, in that my Darwin fish was somehow persecuting Christians.

[Egg]

Have you ever met or heard of anyone who claimed to be an atheist, beat someone up because of their atheism?

I have not. But then, I may have led a sheltered life.

There have been plenty of examples of people who are atheists using violence against people who are Christians (eg. under Mao/Pol Pot/Stalin). Of course, if "atheism" is defined as merely lacking a belief in a deity(ies) then one can't really pin down the cause as merely their atheism. A closer examination would lead to such conclusions as communist power struggles, religious intolerance or whatever. At best it might be said that atheism was a prerequisit in some cases.

I don't suppose that a Christian who vandalizes a car over a bumper sticker is doing it because of Christianity either. If Christianty somehow causes this violence, I'd imagine we'd see a hell of a lot more violence in western society.

I would suggest that such an act is no more because the vandal is a Christian than some bloke might attack a Millwall fan because of his support for Cardiff City*.

I'm not seeing a causal relationship here.

* UK Cultural reference - two soccer teams with a record of hooliganism amongst their fans.

[plumjam]

Indeed, Egg.
Many Christians (and other theists) were either killed, put in a gulag, or even put in psychiatric establishments for not sharing the materialist belief system of their atheist persecutors. Some were put in special camps to be "re-educated", often involving torture.

People are either ignorant or have short memories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

Some actions against Orthodox priests and believers along with execution included torture, being sent to prison camps, labour camps or mental hospitals.[14][15][16][17] Many Orthodox (along with peoples of other faiths) were also subjected to psychological punishment or torture and mind control experimentation in order to force them give up their religious convictions (see Punitive psychiatry in the Soviet Union). [15][16][18][19]

It is estimated the some 20 million Christians (18 million Orthodox, 2 million Roman Catholic) died or were interned in gulags under the Soviet regime 2.7 million martyred under Stalin.....

Protestant believers in the USSR (Baptists, Pentecostals, Adventists etc.) in the period after the Second world war were compulsively sent to mental hospitals, endured trials and prisons (often for refusal to enter military service). Some were even compulsively deprived of their parent rights....

Between 1917 and 1940, hundreds of thousands of Orthodox priests, monks and nuns were arrested. In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over 3,000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.[28] Some were crucified, thrown into cauldrons of boiling tar, scalped, strangled, given Communion with melted lead and drowned in holes in the ice or poured over with cold water in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.[28] During the summer of 1918, 47 members of the clergy from the Yekaterinburg diocese were shot, axed to death or drowned.[29]


But careful your car doesn't get scratched ;)

[DouglasL]

I have had my Darwin fish torn off my car 3 times. I replaced it the last time with a Science Fish ( fish has the word science in the middle and rocket fins). When that got torn off I replaced it with a Blow Fish (fish with the words blowme in the middle). We will see how long it lasts.

[Ausmerican]

The best I've seen so far are WWJBD (What would Jimmy Buffett do) and WWJWD ( What would John Wayne do).

I have a t-shirt that says "WWBD?" with a very familiar Bat-logo below the words to let people figure out the initials. Hey, if you are gonna worry about the hypothetical actions of fictional characters you may as well use ones with cool toys and a nice car.
If Batman turns the other cheek it is probably in the lead up to a spinning back kick or backfist.

[Hux]

Must be some extremely agitated people out there. I cannot imagine this kind of thing happening in England for the causes given. Somebody needs to lighten up.

[Ryan O'Dine]

Actually, there's a parallel trend among atheists defacing Gideons' Bibles in hotel rooms, and "In God We Trust" on American bills.

They may be less personal forms of vandalism, but I don't think that spares them the same kinds of criticism.

[Robin]

There have been plenty of examples of people who are atheists using violence against people who are Christians (eg. under Mao/Pol Pot/Stalin).
Post revolutionary France to cite another example.

[~enigma~]

Actually, there's a parallel trend among atheists defacing Gideons' Bibles in hotel rooms, and "In God We Trust" on American bills.

They may be less personal forms of vandalism, but I don't think that spares them the same kinds of criticism.
Guess you don't know the difference between a few anti-theist websites and an atheist.

[Egg]

Guess you don't know the difference between a few anti-theist websites and an atheist.
I don't understand. Are you saying this is falsely reported on anti-theist websites or that the people on the anti-theist websites are actually theists or that it's the websites that are defacing money and bibles?

[~enigma~]

I don't understand. Are you saying this is falsely reported on anti-theist websites or that the people on the anti-theist websites are actually theists or that it's the websites that are defacing money and bibles?
What exactly wasn't clear about the words few anti-theist websites? Did I mention anything about it being false or are you building a strawman to knock down so you feel intellectually superior?

[Egg]

What exactly wasn't clear about the words few anti-theist websites? Did I mention anything about it being false or are you building a strawman to knock down so you feel intellectually superior?
Those words are clear enough. It's why you differentiate between the websites and the atheists in your answer to Ryan that confuses me. You didn't mention any of the three possibilities I suggested, but it was a question in order to clarify your meaning, not a strawman.

[~enigma~]

Those words are clear enough. It's why you differentiate between the websites and the atheists in your answer to Ryan that confuses me. You didn't mention any of the three possibilities I suggested, but it was a question in order to clarify your meaning, not a strawman.
Only differentiation I made was between atheists and anti-theist websites that are recommending the practice. Please learn to read for comprehension.

[Egg]

Only differentiation I made was between atheists and anti-theist websites that are recommending the practice. Please learn to read for comprehension.
Yep, I got the differentiation. It's the "why" part which you haven't addressed.

[~enigma~]

Yep, I got the differentiation. It's the "why" part which you haven't addressed.
I am pretty sure Ryan understood and maybe you would to if you googled atheists deface Gideon bibles. Besides, can you show me any evidence that this was actually done by atheists?

ETA - Why is it that apologists for christianity (note that this is not calling anyone a christian. Sad this needs to be said but there are some morons reading.) always feign ignorance?

[fromdownunder]

....mmmmm I love the smell of Haggis in the morning.

Norm

[Ron_Tomkins]

Jesus is not dead. He's..... resting.

[Ryan O'Dine]

I am pretty sure Ryan understood and maybe you would to if you googled atheists deface Gideon bibles. Besides, can you show me any evidence that this was actually done by atheists?
No, I did not understand, and I appreciate Egg's attempts to clarify.

A quick google shows atheist websites (positiveatheism (http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9613.htm); proudatheists (http://proudatheists.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/marking-out-in-god-we-trust/)) discussing defacing currency, with some posters describing specifically what they do. My Gideon's bible reference was to a very recent JREF thread discussing an actor defacing hotel Bibles, and how this may be catching on.

[~enigma~]

No, I did not understand, and I appreciate Egg's attempts to clarify.

A quick google shows atheist websites (positiveatheism (http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9613.htm); proudatheists (http://proudatheists.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/marking-out-in-god-we-trust/)) discussing defacing currency, with some posters describing specifically what they do. My Gideon's bible reference was to a very recent JREF thread discussing an actor defacing hotel Bibles, and how this may be catching on.
Why don't you read the websites? Are you afraid you would see a difference between atheists and anti-theists?

[Malerin]

Why don't you read the websites? Are you afraid you would see a difference between atheists and anti-theists?

Anti-theists are atheists. Not all atheists are anti-theists.

[fromdownunder]

Anti-theists are atheists. Not all atheists are anti-theists.

Not essential. There is a possibility that a group of anti-theists exist out there somewhere going by a title such as

"Theists who Hate God!" Nothing would surprize me.

Norm

[ParrotPirate]

Jesus is not dead. He's..... resting.

This is quite definitely an ex-savior!

[Simon39759]

This is quite definitely an ex-savior!

Lol! Good job!

[kurious_kathy]

Extremely funny bumper sticker I saw on the drive into work yesterday that said WWJD - We won, Jesus died. I thought it was funny but a great way to get her (driver had long hair, maybe it was a guy in need of a haircut) car vandalized by a local christian. Got me thinking, you never hear about a christians car being vandalized by atheists or violence against christians (ala Dr. Britton) by atheists. Why are christians so violent?

Excuse Me? Shouldn't the question be why are people so violent?? Violent people are controlled by their sin, so I do not think it's the Christians you need to be concerned about, but I would be more concerned about the non repentant sinners!

[Pure Argent]

Excuse Me? Shouldn't the question be why are people so violent??

No. The topic at hand is the defacing of cars that bear atheistic symbols. Cars bearing theistic symbols are rarely, if ever, defaced.

Violent people are controlled by their sin, so I do not think it's the Christians you need to be concerned about, but I would be more concerned about the non repentant sinners!

More proselytizing BS from KK. Never seen that before.

[Piscivore]

No.
Actually, as much as it pains me to agree with KK on anything, this is actually correct. Individual people are violent, not ideologies.

Sadly, what follows after the superfluous question mark is the usual dreamy, ideological, and contrary-to-evidence KK guano.

The topic at hand is the defacing of cars that bear atheistic symbols. Cars bearing theistic symbols are rarely, if ever, defaced.
Evidence?

[Simon39759]

Actually, as much as it pains me to agree with KK on anything, this is actually correct. Individual people are violent, not ideologies.




Well, you could always make the case, along Steven Weinberg, that: "With or without [religion], you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.


I believe that it is true, to some extent.

[Pure Argent]

Actually, as much as it pains me to agree with KK on anything, this is actually correct. Individual people are violent, not ideologies.

I know that. But my point is that, in this situation, it is a religious motivation that causes people to deface cars bearing atheistic symbols. If these people weren't religious, they wouldn't feel the need to damage these vehicles. Or, at least, it would be less likely that they would feel the need to.

[Olowkow]

It's probably more likely that there are just more theists, and therefore more loony theists, than there are loony atheists. They may feel emboldened by their membership in a large group (read "mob") to hurt the feelings of those who cause them to feel odd about themselves. In my experience, violence and vandalism are usually traceable to upbringing, intolerant family, and/or some undiagnosed illness, and of course, "mob mentality".

[patchbunny]

The best I've seen so far are WWJBD (What would Jimmy Buffett do) and WWJWD ( What would John Wayne do).

WWSD - What Would Scooby Do

[patchbunny]

This is quite definitely an ex-savior!

If you hadn't nailed him to the cross he'd be pushing up the daisies!

[Piscivore]

Actually, as much as it pains me to agree with KK on anything, this is actually correct. Individual people are violent, not ideologies.

Well, you could always make the case, along Steven Weinberg, that: "With or without [religion], you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.


I believe that it is true, to some extent.
I don't. The terms "good people" and "bad people" to me are pretty meaningless, in that everybody pretty much has their own ideas about what constitutes "good" and "bad". There are actions one approves of, and actions one does not approve of, just as there are people that do things with which one agrees, and people who do things with which one does not agree.

In that respect, I do not think it takes religion to have people that have thusfar done things with which one agrees doing something with which one does not approve. As I said upthread; people with whose behaviour we might otherwise agree can find all kinds of justifications for actions they want to or feel compelled to do, not all of them religious. Love of country, desire for wealth, lust, shame, pride; our history and literature is full of examples.

I do invite you to "make the case" otherwise, though, beyond quoting someone else's bumpersticker aphorism.

[Piscivore]

I know that. But my point is that, in this situation, it is a religious motivation that causes people to deface cars bearing atheistic symbols. If these people weren't religious, they wouldn't feel the need to damage these vehicles. Or, at least, it would be less likely that they would feel the need to.

Indeed, but my point is, in contrast to the OP's assertions, that automobile vandalism is not limited only to "Christians" or the religious, nor is violence a necessary, endemic behaviour of theists.

[Pure Argent]

Indeed, but my point is, in contrast to the OP's assertions, that automobile vandalism is not limited only to "Christians" or the religious, nor is violence a necessary, endemic behaviour of theists.

Then we are in agreement.

[Simon39759]

I don't. The terms "good people" and "bad people" to me are pretty meaningless, in that everybody pretty much has their own ideas about what constitutes "good" and "bad". There are actions one approves of, and actions one does not approve of, just as there are people that do things with which one agrees, and people who do things with which one does not agree.

In that respect, I do not think it takes religion to have people that have thusfar done things with which one agrees doing something with which one does not approve. As I said upthread; people with whose behaviour we might otherwise agree can find all kinds of justifications for actions they want to or feel compelled to do, not all of them religious. Love of country, desire for wealth, lust, shame, pride; our history and literature is full of examples.

I do invite you to "make the case" otherwise, though, beyond quoting someone else's bumpersticker aphorism.



That's the point.
While, most people have an empathic notion of good and bad, you need the notion of a 'greater good' to over-ride what empathy tells you and Religion is a very common source of such 'greater good' justification.

[Piscivore]

That's the point.
While, most people have an empathic notion of good and bad, you need the notion of a 'greater good' to over-ride what empathy tells you and Religion is a very common source of such 'greater good' justification.

"A very common source" is not an exclusive source, as the bumpersticker suggests.

[Simon39759]

I'd have to agree with that.

It is part of the reason I only agree with it 'to some extent'.
I would, personally, substitute 'Religion' to 'dogmatic beliefs' as more than a few secular revolutions felt into this pitfall as well.

Also, it is not a "bumpersticker" it is an actual, well referenced quote.

[Piscivore]

I'd have to agree with that.

It is part of the reason I only agree with it 'to some extent'.
I would, personally, substitute 'Religion' to 'dogmatic beliefs' as more than a few secular revolutions felt into this pitfall as well.
Agreed. It is one of the reasons I particularly distrust and dislike "crusaders", no matter what the cause.

Also, it is not a "bumpersticker" it is an actual, well referenced quote.
By "bumpersticker" I did not mean unreferenced; I meant a short, pithy phrase that sounds profound and even "true", but falls far short when examined critically. Even in context (at least such context as Wikiquote had), the assertion in the quote is fallacious.

[~enigma~]

Indeed, but my point is, in contrast to the OP's assertions, that automobile vandalism is not limited only to "Christians" or the religious, nor is violence a necessary, endemic behaviour of theists.
You don't read too good do you? Will you be kind enough to show me where I said only christians vandalize cars.

[Piscivore]

You don't read too good do you? Will you be kind enough to show me where I said only christians vandalize cars.
You didn't. You did imply that atheists never did- at least:
...you never hear about a christians car being vandalized by atheists or violence against christians (ala Dr. Britton) by atheists.



I guess you're admitting you implied violence is a necessary, endemic behaviour of theists?

[~enigma~]

You didn't. You did imply that atheists never did- at least:
No I didn't. If you learn to read for comprehension you would see that I referred to atheist not vandalizing christian cars. How do you get from that to atheists never commit violence?
I guess you're admitting you implied violence is a necessary, endemic behaviour of theists?
You can assume whatever you want but once again it shows a total lack of reading comprehension.

[Egg]

I know that. But my point is that, in this situation, it is a religious motivation that causes people to deface cars bearing atheistic symbols. If these people weren't religious, they wouldn't feel the need to damage these vehicles. Or, at least, it would be less likely that they would feel the need to.
This is perhaps speculation on my part as to their motives, but I'd see calling it religious motivation a bit of a stretch. It seems to me that the response is to a perception that their religion is being mocked.

Blaming religion is a bit like blaming marriage in a case where a man hits someone for a perceived insult to his wife. Sure, if he had not been married, he would have no wife to insult, but his marriage would hardly be blamed as the cause of his violent reaction.

It's possible that religious beliefs can inspire a kind of righteous indignation for some people, but it's also possible that teachings about love and forgiveness would mean that less Christians would react badly to a perceived mocking. I wonder if a bumper sticker which mocked the local/state football team would be more or less likely to provoke car vandalism than a Darwin fish in a Bible-belt area.

[Pure Argent]

This is perhaps speculation on my part as to their motives, but I'd see calling it religious motivation a bit of a stretch. It seems to me that the response is to a perception that their religion is being mocked.

Blaming religion is a bit like blaming marriage in a case where a man hits someone for a perceived insult to his wife. Sure, if he had not been married, he would have no wife to insult, but his marriage would hardly be blamed as the cause of his violent reaction.

It's possible that religious beliefs can inspire a kind of righteous indignation for some people, but it's also possible that teachings about love and forgiveness would mean that less Christians would react badly to a perceived mocking. I wonder if a bumper sticker which mocked the local/state football team would be more or less likely to provoke car vandalism than a Darwin fish in a Bible-belt area.

Well, you see, if they didn't have the religious beliefs, they wouldn't feel that their religion was being mocked, and therefore it wouldn't happen. So it's a religious motivation.

[Egg]

Well, you see, if they didn't have the religious beliefs, they wouldn't feel that their religion was being mocked, and therefore it wouldn't happen. So it's a religious motivation.
...and if he vandalised a car after being mocked for his choice of shirt, we would call it fashion motivated? After being mocked for vegetarianism, it would be nutritionally motivated? If his acne was mocked, it would be dermatologically motivated vandalism?

[~enigma~]

This is perhaps speculation on my part as to their motives, but I'd see calling it religious motivation a bit of a stretch. It seems to me that the response is to a perception that their religion is being mocked..
If your assumption is correct then you are accusing christians of having twisted perceptions of reality. Actually that is something to consider. Do christians mock atheists, muslims, buddism, judaism, etc. when they have a christian symbol on their car? If not why is a darwin fish mocking christianity?

[big-E]

Personally I like WWJSD - What Would Joe Simpson Do?

I was re-reading Touching The Void just this weekend. That guy just wouldn't give up (well, except when he was dangling on a rope unable to do anything at all). Now there's a story that really should inspire people.

[paiute]

Extremely funny bumper sticker I saw on the drive into work yesterday that said WWJD - We won, Jesus died. I thought it was funny but a great way to get her (driver had long hair, maybe it was a guy in need of a haircut) car vandalized by a local christian. Got me thinking, you never hear about a christians car being vandalized by atheists or violence against christians (ala Dr. Britton) by atheists. Why are christians so violent?

Who Wants Jack Daniels? gets your car keyed by the WCTU.

I prefer WWJD?JWRTFM!

[Pure Argent]

...and if he vandalised a car after being mocked for his choice of shirt, we would call it fashion motivated? After being mocked for vegetarianism, it would be nutritionally motivated? If his acne was mocked, it would be dermatologically motivated vandalism?

Well, actually, you could call it "fashion-motivated". He's motivated to vandalism because his sense of fashion was mocked. It's the same thing: the religious are motivated to vandalize these cars because they believe that their religion is being mocked. That is all I'm saying. They have been motivated to key the car or remove the sticker or smash a window because their religion has been mocked, just as the fashionista does the same because his sense of fashion has been mocked.

[Egg]

If your assumption is correct then you are accusing christians of having twisted perceptions of reality. Actually that is something to consider. Do christians mock atheists, muslims, buddism, judaism, etc. when they have a christian symbol on their car? If not why is a darwin fish mocking christianity?
Perhaps I'm suggesting that some Christians are being somewhat over-sensitive, but while a Darwin fish might not always be intended in a mocking way, it is a parody of the Christian symbol and the intention of mockery is not uncommon. So I'd say they were maybe guilty of generalisation (as well as vandalism of course) or a narrow point of view and jumping to conclusions. "Twisted perceptions of reality" I think is overstating the case, unless we would apply that same phrase to all human beings.

[Egg]

Well, actually, you could call it "fashion-motivated". He's motivated to vandalism because his sense of fashion was mocked. It's the same thing: the religious are motivated to vandalize these cars because they believe that their religion is being mocked. That is all I'm saying. They have been motivated to key the car or remove the sticker or smash a window because their religion has been mocked, just as the fashionista does the same because his sense of fashion has been mocked.
I guess it's just a terminological disagreement then. Fashion-related motivation (or religion-related) I would accept. For me, "fashion-motivated" suggests that there is something intrinsic about his shirt that causes him to react badly to a perceived mocking. I think a closer reflection of his actual motivations would probably be if we called the reaction intolerance-motivated or pride-motivated.

We could call the mocking fashion-motivated I suppose, but even that doesn't give a true picture of the motivations involved.

[Pure Argent]

I guess it's just a terminological disagreement then. Fashion-related motivation (or religion-related) I would accept. For me, "fashion-motivated" suggests that there is something intrinsic about his shirt that causes him to react badly to a perceived mocking. I think a closer reflection of his actual motivations would probably be if we called the reaction intolerance-motivated or pride-motivated.

We could call the mocking fashion-motivated I suppose, but even that doesn't give a true picture of the motivations involved.

There are too many ambiguities in the English language, that's for sure.

I blame Lisa.

[Wolrab]

Several years ago there was a What Would Judas Do website. There was a Q&A where all the answers were over the top, back stabbing betrayal. It was pretty funny.

[Mister Agenda]

Snip

I've never heard of an atheist's car being vandalised by Christians.

Snip



That might be because only a small percentage of atheists use their cars to indicate their atheism. I think if you put a bumper sticker reading 'Proud Atheist' on your car, you would be increasing the chances of your car being vandalized substantially. It's an experiment I'm reluctant to perform myself because I'm pretty confident I'd get some expensive vandalism within 90 days of putting that bumper sticker on and am mildly worried about my personal safety should I do so. You, on the other hand, seem pretty confident your car would be as safe, or nearly as safe, as if you put a WWJD? sticker on it. I'm not daring you, btw, I don't wish car damage on anyone.

Sadly we are limited to anecdotes as I doubt anyone is interested enough to conduct a valid statistical study.

[Piscivore]

That might be because only a small percentage of atheists use their cars to indicate their atheism. I think if you put a bumper sticker reading 'Proud Atheist' on your car, you would be increasing the chances of your car being vandalized substantially. It's an experiment I'm reluctant to perform myself because I'm pretty confident I'd get some expensive vandalism within 90 days of putting that bumper sticker on and am mildly worried about my personal safety should I do so. You, on the other hand, seem pretty confident your car would be as safe, or nearly as safe, as if you put a WWJD? sticker on it. I'm not daring you, btw, I don't wish car damage on anyone.
I don't have any stickers on my car because it is an antique, not because I'm afraid of vandalism. Hell, if my car were vandalised I could get my insurance to pay for a badly needed new paintjob. :)

I have, however, seen a number of atheist and non-theist stickers- including a number of Darwin Fishes and a few FSMs- on thusfar unvandalised cars out here. And this is a "Red State" with large Mormon and Catholic populations.

I've also seen a few anti-Obamaists who have so thoroughly defaced there own vehicles with stickers and signs that nothing a vandal could do would make it look worse. :)

I think the only sticker likely to get you vandalised in this town would be pro-gay marriage.

Sadly we are limited to anecdotes as I doubt anyone is interested enough to conduct a valid statistical study.
I wouldn't know how to begin.

[Ryokan]

Jesus is not dead. He's..... resting.

He's pining for the fjords?

[Paulhoff]

Excuse Me? Shouldn't the question be why are people so violent?? Violent people are controlled by their sin, so I do not think it's the Christians you need to be concerned about, but I would be more concerned about the non repentant sinners!
Oh, really, haven't watched the news have you.

Paul

:) :) :)

[Beerina]

I really don't know. I just had a Christian friend freak out on me for having this as my desktop background.
http://craigbe.typepad.com/movieblog/WindowsLiveWriter/desktop800x600.jpg


I don't know which is more disturbing: that your Christian friend freaked out over a small joke, or that you computer has an 800x600 desktop.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll38/Gnurl/seth2.jpg

[Hux]

From what I gather, having looked at Christian and atheist sites, atheists are more likely to be the 'victims' of Christian interest, ranging from lovingly placed letter under your wipers, to direct destruction of badges etc.

I am pleased to say that as an atheists I belong to a fraternity of people who will diligently take the piss out of really stupid ideas but not take action against them. I cannot say the same for believers, many of whom, I have seen boasting about their 'kills' regarding stickers.

[Mister Agenda]

From what I gather, having looked at Christian and atheist sites, atheists are more likely to be the 'victims' of Christian interest, ranging from lovingly placed letter under your wipers, to direct destruction of badges etc.

I am pleased to say that as an atheists I belong to a fraternity of people who will diligently take the piss out of really stupid ideas but not take action against them. I cannot say the same for believers, many of whom, I have seen boasting about their 'kills' regarding stickers.


Did they boast on the internet. Given the topic, a link to that might be illuminating.

[Mister Agenda]

I don't have any stickers on my car because it is an antique, not because I'm afraid of vandalism. Hell, if my car were vandalised I could get my insurance to pay for a badly needed new paintjob. :)

Yeah, probably not worth the defacement if you aren't getting much vandalism in your area.

I have, however, seen a number of atheist and non-theist stickers- including a number of Darwin Fishes and a few FSMs- on thusfar unvandalised cars out here. And this is a "Red State" with large Mormon and Catholic populations.

I would expect the Mormons and Catholics to be low-key compared to the Baptists and Pentecostals I am surrounded by.

I've also seen a few anti-Obamaists who have so thoroughly defaced there own vehicles with stickers and signs that nothing a vandal could do would make it look worse. :)

There is a point of diminishing returns with bumper stickers. I have two.

I think the only sticker likely to get you vandalised in this town would be pro-gay marriage.

There does seem to be an overwhelming consensus on that issue by the Christianistas.


Snip

[often mrunderstood]

What Would Jesus Drive?

[Hux]

Did they boast on the internet. Given the topic, a link to that might be illuminating.

If you can be bothered, do your own surfing.

[Mister Agenda]

If you can be bothered, do your own surfing.

You could at least verify that you've encountered said boasting on the internet before you send people off to corroborate your claims. Otherwise no, I can't be bothered.

[Ladewig]

If your assumption is correct then you are accusing christians of having twisted perceptions of reality. Actually that is something to consider. Do christians mock atheists, muslims, buddism, judaism, etc. when they have a christian symbol on their car? If not why is a darwin fish mocking christianity?

Personally, I do not think that a Darwin fish is mocking Christianity. After all there are tens of millions of Christians that believe in evolution and Jesus's message.

I do, however, think the sticker mentioned in the OP does mock Christianity. It does not simply say that the owner does not believe in God, it states that our side can claim victory over the other side and adds a taunt about the most venerated part of the entire Bible.

[Hux]

You could at least verify that you've encountered said boasting on the internet before you send people off to corroborate your claims. Otherwise no, I can't be bothered.

I am not reporting boasting. I simply pass on what I have read over seven years. Do you expect me to provide links of every one of your pronouncements? I doubt it. Form your own views on what you read. If it had been the other way around about the vandalism I would have said so. I simply have not encountered a Christian on a Christian forum complaining about evil atheists damaging their cars.

You may well find otherwise; its not up to me to produce links to multiple conversations. I am not making any claims so I do not need to 'corroborate' them.

[Robin]

Personally, I do not think that a Darwin fish is mocking Christianity. After all there are tens of millions of Christians that believe in evolution and Jesus's message.

I do, however, think the sticker mentioned in the OP does mock Christianity. It does not simply say that the owner does not believe in God, it states that our side can claim victory over the other side and adds a taunt about the most venerated part of the entire Bible.
Is everyone sure it is an anti-Christian sticker.

After all a Christian could say exactly the same thing since the sacrifice is regarded as a victory.

[Ladewig]

Is everyone sure it is an anti-Christian sticker.

After all a Christian could say exactly the same thing since the sacrifice is regarded as a victory.


Indeed, yes. In fact, I looked up the stickers online before posting and found that it is sold on the Atheists Online store (http://www.atheists-online.com/store.asp?shop=01900).