Movies: The 4th Kind: Of owls and hoaxes

[skepticalbeliever]

I saw the 4th kind today. I did not look up reviews about it. It was all about a pschologist who hypnotizes people who claim to have sleep problems. After they become hypnotized they undergo violent reactions, even float. Some go on to kill their fam. members. The psychologist daughter goes missing and She claims aliens took her. During a hypnosis session she speaks an ancient language.

All of these evens were supposed to of happened in knome alaska, pardon my spelling.

So my question is, was this women even real? I know her daughter wasn't taken on to a space ship. I just wonder if anybody who was depitcted in this film ever even existed.


From what I'm reading on the net it seems like the entire film was a hoax. It claimed that it was a documentary reenactment- what ever that is! At the end of the film it says that none of the people who were involved in the events wanted to participate in the movie. I decided to do some research on the film after viewing it and can't find anything about the people involved.

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

From the ads I saw, it didn't seem that they were claiming the movie to be anything other than fiction.

[tumnus]

I've actually just got back from watching it. Of course it is a load of codswallop, and all the 'real' footage made me smile a little when it went a bit crazy, however it was quite a scary experience. Though I should know better, it was quite a tense film, and the old hairs stood up on the back of my neck. I'm a bit jumpy now, but that's all the fun of horror movies, n'est-ce pas? suspension of disbelief for a while.

ok, time for some cocoa now before bed and some gratuitous and pointless intrusive examination by our alien chums (who must be the alien equivalent of woo if they've spent the last few thousands years doing the same thing without making much progress. I imagine its the alien version of 'most haunted' that they have been making)

[skepticalbeliever]

Yeah, it was a scary movie, but they really made it seem like it was based on events that happened. I left the movie with the theory that the woman must have been involved in the occult and killed her child and her husband, while the people she hypnotized were somehow involved in the occult.

I don't believe in aliens, but I do believe in demonic posession and felt that the woman may have been posessed and needed help from an exorcist. That is what scared me about the film. And I don't believe in aliens because they should leave a trace when they're here if they visit. I do think that some people who get involved in the occult may see beings, but these beings are not aliens at all, if they see anything and aren't being distruthful.

But when investigating this story on the net I couldn't find any evidence that the movie was not science fiction. SO that made me kind of mad.

[Sir Robin Goodfellow]

They also said the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on true events, so you need to take those statements with a grain of salt.

[Brian-M]

The movie "Fargo" begins with the disclaimer:


THIS IS A TRUE STORY.

The events depicted in this film
took place in Minnesota in 1987.

At the request of the survivors,
the names have been changed.

Out of respect for the dead,
the rest has been told exactly
as it occurred.



But it's completely fictional. :mad:
I hate it when movie-makers lie to their audiences, claiming that fiction is fact. Could this movie be doing the same sort of thing?

[A.A. Alfie]

Yeah but it (Fargo) was a great film.
I saw it again on Friday (about the 6th time) with my wife - her first.
We both loved it.

On this 4th kind. Is it along the lines of a Blair witch project? Poltergeist? What exactly?
It sounds like a bit of fun, are we recommending it here?

[SphereGuy]

Yeah, it was a scary movie, but they really made it seem like it was based on events that happened. I left the movie with the theory that the woman must have been involved in the occult and killed her child and her husband, while the people she hypnotized were somehow involved in the occult.

I don't believe in aliens, but I do believe in demonic posession and felt that the woman may have been posessed and needed help from an exorcist. That is what scared me about the film. And I don't believe in aliens because they should leave a trace when they're here if they visit. I do think that some people who get involved in the occult may see beings, but these beings are not aliens at all, if they see anything and aren't being distruthful.

But when investigating this story on the net I couldn't find any evidence that the movie was not science fiction. SO that made me kind of mad.

Why is one any more believable than the other?

(meaning alien abductions, I know someone will nitpick and say life elsewhere in the universe is believable)

[ExMinister]

Everything I found seems to indicate they are passing this off as a dramatized enactment of real events. From http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1220198/plotsummary

1n 1972, a scale of measurement was established for alien encounters. When a UFO is sighted, it is called an encounter of the first kind. When evidence is collected, it is known as an encounter of the second kind. When contact is made with extraterrestrials, it is the third kind. The next level, abduction, is the fourth kind. Modern-day, Alaska, where-mysteriously since the 1960s-a disproportionate number of the population has been reported missing every year. Despite multiple FBI investigations of the region, the truth has never been discovered. Here in this remote region, psychologist Dr. Abigail Tyler began videotaping sessions with traumatized patients and unwittingly discovered some of the most disturbing evidence of alien abduction ever documented. The Fourth Kind exposes the terrified revelations of multiple witnesses. Their accounts of being visited by alien figures all share disturbingly identical details, the validity of which is investigated throughout the film

Here is a link to a synopsis of the story for anyone who doesn't plan to see the movie and doesn't care about knowing what it's about: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1220198/synopsis

I can't because I'm on a work computer, but it might interesting to contact the editors of the Nome, Alaska newspaper, The Nome Nugget, to get their opinion on the movie and/or what the locals think of it.

But as far as its overall credibility, I did find one article claiming that a web site for Dr. Tyler is online and includes related articles, etc., but that it was created in August of 2009 and appears to have been part of the efforts to promote the movie as real.

If you search for Dr. Abigail Tyler, Nome Alaska, a website called "Alaska Psychiatry Journal" provides a "biography" of Dr. Tyler with "related articles" on the topics of sleep disorders, emotional issues, hypnotherapy and regression therapy. However, the website does not have a homepage or contact information.

The website was registered on GoDaddy in August 2009. A real online-medical publication would have such information, so this leads to the conclusion that the website is a viral marketing ploy, much like the promotion for the upcoming "2012" movie and the for "Institute for Human Continuity."

Link: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2143751/the_fourth_kind_missing_persons_in.html?cat=40

So now we have at least one reason to be suspicious (if the material itself didn't already make us that way).

From the same article:

In 2005, the FBI sent homicide detectives to investigate a series of unsolved disappearances and deaths in Nome, Alaska. Most of the victims were Native villagers. Between the years of 1960 and 2004, more than 20 people mysteriously died, or vanished. By 2006, the FBI came to the conclusion that "excessive alcohol consumption and a harsh winter climate" were to blame for the disappearances. Originally it was thought that the disappearances were linked to a serial killer. Although the FBI determined this was not the case, the final conclusion left many unanswered questions as well as 9 bodies that were never found.

If I had to choose between alien abductions versus alcohol consumption plus harsh winter climate... At any rate, the FBI seems to have reached a conclusion that did not involve UFOs.

Also, 9 bodies were never found. That would seem to indicate that the other 11 were. Did the aliens bring them back, or what is the explanation for these 11? Are these the ones the FBI believes died most likely due to alcohol consumption and the harsh winter climate, and if so, how does that tie in with the claims in the movie? I suspect the claims will not hold up with a little bit of research.

[bookitty]

Yeah, it was a scary movie, but they really made it seem like it was based on events that happened. I left the movie with the theory that the woman must have been involved in the occult and killed her child and her husband, while the people she hypnotized were somehow involved in the occult.

I don't believe in aliens, but I do believe in demonic posession and felt that the woman may have been posessed and needed help from an exorcist. That is what scared me about the film. And I don't believe in aliens because they should leave a trace when they're here if they visit. I do think that some people who get involved in the occult may see beings, but these beings are not aliens at all, if they see anything and aren't being distruthful.

But when investigating this story on the net I couldn't find any evidence that the movie was not science fiction. SO that made me kind of mad.

They did the same thing with The Amityville Horror. Made up a bunch of demonic happenings, passed it off as real.

But more importantly, you say that you don't believe in aliens because they haven't left any trace. But you do believe in demons. Do you have any examples where there is proof of demonic possession?

[Whiplash]

Amityville Horror is one that really gets under my skin. Because I was a child when the story was breaking, and I fell for it hook line and sinker. But since then, it's become 100% obvious that the family knew that the house had the history it did, and moved in and made the entire thing up for the purpose of publicity and money. Shameless charlatans! It's the kind of thing that most ties me to being a skeptic. I can't believe that there are people who are willing to lie and pass off lies to as many people as possible, without guilt or a sense of shame, all for their own personal gain. It makes me sick. These types of people will often say "You'd do the same thing". No, I wouldn't, you are rationalizing. I'd never do any such thing.

[John Jones]

They also said the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on true events, so you need to take those statements with a grain of salt.


That was purportedly based on the Ed Gein case, with plenty of creative license.

[skepticalbeliever]

They did the same thing with The Amityville Horror. Made up a bunch of demonic happenings, passed it off as real.

But more importantly, you say that you don't believe in aliens because they haven't left any trace. But you do believe in demons. Do you have any examples where there is proof of demonic possession?

With me, I think the source of the claim is the most important. Read Malachi Martin's book Hostage to the Devil. Martin is a well educated man and makes very intresting claims in his book.

Most people who claim to have seen UFOs seem to be hicks. They don't have the credability that I need to see in order to believe their claims. Most of the dissaperances in Knowm seem to be due to alcoholism.

As to weather or not there is proof that exorcisms are legit, I would say that you'll never see a video of one out of respect for the famalies involved. The Catholic Church could cause a sensation if they released videos of exorcisms, but does not because of the seriousness involved. Randi should ask to attend one. He will probably get a no, but it is worth a shot.

My mother made this point, a UFO would be seen by a NASA instrument. It wold be picked up on radar or with a telescope. We have absolutly no proof that a alien UFO ever visited the world. If people see beings from other worlds I feel they are seeing spirits, they are halucinating or they're not being honest. 99% of the time it will be the second two choices, but I allow for the possibility of demons. I deff. think posession is a rare and extream thing.

And The catholic church does send exorcism candidates to psychologists of all sorts. If the psych. can't help the person, than they see an exorcist.That is why I believe in exorcisms as performed in the catholic tradition. I've studied psychology and deff. think that the symptoms Malacki Martin described in his book fall under the paranormal and are worth looking in to.

And as far as the movie goes, I am still searching for the case studies on which it was based. My beliefe that if anything happened, it was because the woman got involved an a ooji board or tarrot cards.

[technoextreme]

The movie "Fargo" begins with the disclaimer:




But it's completely fictional. :mad:
I hate it when movie-makers lie to their audiences, claiming that fiction is fact. Could this movie be doing the same sort of thing?
It reminds me of the disclaimer for The Men who Stare at Goats.
More of this is true than you would believe.

[bookitty]

With me, I think the source of the claim is the most important. Read Malachi Martin's book Hostage to the Devil. Martin is a well educated man and makes very intresting claims in his book.

I am not familiar with Malachi Martin but a brief google search shows he believed that the child abuse in the Catholic church was being performed as part of a Satanic cult. We know that the child abuse happened but there was nothing satanic about it, only bad people taking advantage of children.


As to weather or not there is proof that exorcisms are legit, I would say that you'll never see a video of one out of respect for the famalies involved. The Catholic Church could cause a sensation if they released videos of exorcisms, but does not because of the seriousness involved. Randi should ask to attend one. He will probably get a no, but it is worth a shot.


There are numerous youtube videos of exorcisms. Not all of them Catholic.

My mother made this point, a UFO would be seen by a NASA instrument. It wold be picked up on radar or with a telescope. We have absolutly no proof that a alien UFO ever visited the world. If people see beings from other worlds I feel they are seeing spirits, they are halucinating or they're not being honest. 99% of the time it will be the second two choices, but I allow for the possibility of demons. I deff. think posession is a rare and extream thing.

It might be rare but there are no accounts of modern exorcism that have been proven to be demons. All of the symptoms can be caused by easily understood and recognized mental disorders.

And The catholic church does send exorcism candidates to psychologists of all sorts. If the psych. can't help the person, than they see an exorcist.That is why I believe in exorcisms as performed in the catholic tradition. I've studied psychology and deff. think that the symptoms Malacki Martin described in his book fall under the paranormal and are worth looking in to.

The Catholic church shies away from exorcisms in general. In the rare cases that one is performed, it is in the best interest of the priest that a supernatural explanation be found. Paranormal phenomenon is a useful tool of those seeking to manipulate the minds of the less rational.

And as far as the movie goes, I am still searching for the case studies on which it was based. My beliefe that if anything happened, it was because the woman got involved an a ooji board or tarrot cards.


Ouija boards are a toy, modern ones are made by Milton Bradley. They are a spooky little thrill for the impressionable but no more dangerous than a Harry Potter novel. Tarot cards are covered in symbols that can easily be interpreted to fit known facts. Neither of them are demonic in origin.

I do understand how a belief in God can lead to a parallel belief in the demonic but neither of them are any good at obvious displays.

[Red3]

Most people who claim to be/have been possessed usually have a religious background.

[LTC8K6]

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/bae053b1dc78e34a412634ff9234fa836g.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/45e297cdbf40889c1eb1078637828c356g.jpg

Owls are evil...

[P.J. Denyer]

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/bae053b1dc78e34a412634ff9234fa836g.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/45e297cdbf40889c1eb1078637828c356g.jpg

Owls are evil...


The owls are not what they seem.....

[Eric D]

That was purportedly based on the Ed Gein case, with plenty of creative license.

Hahahaha. I still hear people talking about how TCM really happened.

The Hill Have Eyes really happened too. The Sawney Bean clan in Scotland in the 1400's would kill travelers and eat their remains.

[Dragonrock]

Several weeks ago we had a new poster who was saying how much just seeing the previews was scaring him. This along with other clues led me to believe that he was sent to plug the movie. When I called him on it he disappeared.

I think they're pushing the "true story" thing just as a selling point.

[NoZed Avenger]

Owls are evil...

Strewth!

One ruined my credit rating.

[jakesteele]

This might help out a little bit.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/11/06/fourth.kind.real/

"... In real life, there was a string of disappearances in the small town on the west coast of Alaska, not far from the Bering Strait. In 2005, the FBI was brought in to investigate. The victims were largely native men traveling to the town from smaller villages, according to the Anchorage Daily News.

The FBI looked into about 20 cases, finding alcohol and frigid temperatures to be causes. Nine bodies were never found.

"The Fourth Kind," which comes out Friday, uses the disappearances as a jumping-off point for an alien abduction yarn, using "archived footage" to create an atmosphere of documentary realism. It's not a new idea; "The Blair Witch Project" pulled off the concept effectively, and the recent "Paranormal Activity" uses handheld cameras for a cinema verite look."

[Seismosaurus]

When you see what is alleged to be the real original camera footage from the police car outside of the Doctor's house, there are many trees behind and around the house.

As I understand it, there are no trees in Nome, Alaska.

So no, the "original footage" is fake. It's just a movie.

Funnily enough, watching it my over-riding impression is that if this had been real, demonic possession would be a much better fit to the facts than alien abduction.

[Eyeron]

You've never seen a Christian UFO website that says demons are masquerading as aliens have you?

[Arg9]

The movie is a joke. Like "The Secret", it left me wanting to pound my head against the wall. Movies that try to pass things as fact piss me off. It's one thing to create a movie with aliens for entertainment, and there are many great alien movies as FICTION. But when people pull this marketing crap it's insulting and intentionally misleading. Scum of the arts.