Law of Attraction - So are they all just deluded or making this stuff up?

[Marshmallow]

For example, people on websites like powerfulintentions.org often post stories about how they made miraculous changes in their lives, like changing their appearance just by concentrating and believing they already looked the way they wanted to. The people who claim they have changed their appearance talk about how people will go up to them and say how they look really different, etc. They'll post how they did it just believing they already look the way they want. Often, these are people who don't seem like they would have any motive for lying about this stuff...they aren't selling anything and they're anonymous. What would they have to gain by making this stuff up? I understand that someof these people probably have delusional disorders or they may be experiencing confirmation bias - but allof them?

I've read a lot of really convincing and extraordinary stories from people who don't seem to have anything to gain by lying about these things to total strangers on the Internet. I know that anecdotes are not the most reliable things in the world, but there are just...so many of them. What would people have to gain by making these things up?

By the way, I don't want to limit this question to just things like the Law of Attraction. What would motivate someone to anonymously lie about anything paranormal to complete strangers?

I know that confirmation bias is often responsible for thse things, but I've also read quite a few accounts where confirmation bias was obviously not the case...so if they're not lying or delusional, what are some other alternatives?

What do you skeptics think?

[icerat]

Re the LOA, confirmation bias is a large part of it, but another large does is simply self confidence. If you believe more in whatever it is you're trying to achieve, then you are going to look different. You might stand up straighter, shower more often, dress with more care, smile more - not to mention actually be more likely to take action to achieve whatever it is you are wanting.

No mysticism needed.

[Pure Argent]

Well, actually, yes, they can all be liars or self-deluded.

The world is a very, very big place, Marshmallow. Six billion people live there, and many of them have internet access. If these people with internet access are liars or self-deluded, then they are likely to use the internet to seek out others who believe (or profess to) the same things as they do. You just stumbled upon a woo nest.
Raid is in aisle six, by the way.

[Darat]

For example, people on websites like powerfulintentions.org often post stories about how they made miraculous changes in their lives, like changing their appearance just by concentrating and believing they already looked the way they wanted to.

...snip...

Any cases of anyone regrowing a limb that was amputated for some reason?

[Fiona]

Can anyone give me a quick resume of what this is about, please: I did look at the site but I could not make much sense of it

[Darat]

In summary it is the belief that if you really want something you'll get it.

In practice it explains how Noel Edmonds got back on TV.... (actually I think he claims "cosmic ordering but it seems to be the same thing as far as I can distinguish).

[Fiona]

er.....what about all those people who really did not want noel edmonds to be back on tv?

[Darat]

er.....what about all those people who really did not want noel edmonds to be back on tv?

He's richer?

[Fiona]

Ah! So if you really want something you can buy it, if you have enough money?

Och I knew that :)

[SphereGuy]

Scott Adams attributes his success as a cartoonist to something very similar. He outlined it in one of his books, but I can't recall which one offhand, it may have been The Dilbert Future. He also wrote that he believes gravity is a result of the universe expanding, so we are pressed against stuff as it expands.

[Buckaroo]

Scott Adams attributes his success as a cartoonist to something very similar. He outlined it in one of his books, but I can't recall which one offhand, it may have been The Dilbert Future. He also wrote that he believes gravity is a result of the universe expanding, so we are pressed against stuff as it expands.

<derail> He also doubts evolution. I wrote off Scott Adams years ago. </derail>

[Nursefoxfire]

In summary it is the belief that if you really want something you'll get it.

In practice it explains how Noel Edmonds got back on TV.... (actually I think he claims "cosmic ordering but it seems to be the same thing as far as I can distinguish).

So it's The Secret?

[Elizabeth I]

Scott Adams attributes his success as a cartoonist to something very similar. He outlined it in one of his books, but I can't recall which one offhand, it may have been The Dilbert Future. He also wrote that he believes gravity is a result of the universe expanding, so we are pressed against stuff as it expands.

Wow, he was serious about that? How the hell did he get through computer engineer school?


So it's The Secret?

Pretty much, yeah. :rolleyes:

[Maia]

I don't know, but I particularly liked (from powerfulintentions.org)


Don't try to convince others about Law of Attraction because they will just visualizing duct tape over your mouth!.


Truer words have rarely been spoken.

I really do try to find something positive about ideas like this, but truthfully, words cannot describe the sheer feeling of revulsion I have towards them.

[dallasroofer]

For example, people on websites like powerfulintentions.org often post stories about how they made miraculous changes in their lives, like changing their appearance just by concentrating and believing they already looked the way they wanted to. The people who claim they have changed their appearance talk about how people will go up to them and say how they look really different, etc. They'll post how they did it just believing they already look the way they want. Often, these are people who don't seem like they would have any motive for lying about this stuff...they aren't selling anything and they're anonymous. What would they have to gain by making this stuff up? I understand that someof these people probably have delusional disorders or they may be experiencing confirmation bias - but allof them?

I've read a lot of really convincing and extraordinary stories from people who don't seem to have anything to gain by lying about these things to total strangers on the Internet. I know that anecdotes are not the most reliable things in the world, but there are just...so many of them. What would people have to gain by making these things up?

By the way, I don't want to limit this question to just things like the Law of Attraction. What would motivate someone to anonymously lie about anything paranormal to complete strangers?

I know that confirmation bias is often responsible for thse things, but I've also read quite a few accounts where confirmation bias was obviously not the case...so if they're not lying or delusional, what are some other alternatives?

What do you skeptics think?
I think they're pretty much making this stuff up. I mean come on ... just look at The X Files. How in the world does that stay on TV so long? Aliens, creatures every week? Kolchak the Nightstalker didn't have it so good! (At least not in syndication)

[tyr_13]

Ah! So if you really want something you can buy it, if you have enough money?

Och I knew that :)

It's actually even worse than that because it also says that one attracts what one fears too much as well.

Rape victim? Their fault. Murder victim? Their fault. Blame all those idiots in the World Trade Center for fearing planes flew by Jihadist from Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

[sackett]

...I've read a lot of really convincing and extraordinary stories from people....

And what is particularly CONVINCING about these, um, stories? What CONVINCED you?

[fromdownunder]

Re the LOA, confirmation bias is a large part of it, but another large does is simply self confidence. If you believe more in whatever it is you're trying to achieve, then you are going to look different. You might stand up straighter, shower more often, dress with more care, smile more - not to mention actually be more likely to take action to achieve whatever it is you are wanting.

No mysticism needed.

I think that this covers the whole idea quite nicely.

Norm

[tsig]

I don't know, but I particularly liked (from powerfulintentions.org)

"
Quote:
Don't try to convince others about Law of Attraction because they will just visualizing duct tape over your mouth!."




Truer words have rarely been spoken.

I really do try to find something positive about ideas like this, but truthfully, words cannot describe the sheer feeling of revulsion I have towards them.

If their law worked wouldn't they wind up with duct tape on their mouth?

[godless dave]

Don't forget attention-seeking as a motive to lie. And some people just lie habitually, with no real motive.

[Freethinker]

Wow, he was serious about that? How the hell did he get through computer engineer school?




Pretty much, yeah. :rolleyes:

Adams didn't go to engineering school. He worked in the banking industry on the financial side and moved over to computers.

[jakesteele]

There are laws of attraction, just not ones that work the way they say it does:

These laws are:
Birds of a feather flock together
Like attracts like.

Positive people attract positive people and negative people attract negative people. Hard working, goal oriented, disciplined, motivated, people attract to themselves the same. They do not attract lazy, non-focused, undisciplined, and unmotivated people.

Critical thinking people do not attract people who think irrationally and emotionally unless the irrational and emotional person has something in them that draws them to the rational side eoyj s deep sense of unbending intent and unflinching purpose. They may falter at times, buy there is some sort of internal gyroscope that pulls them back straight.

The difference between that and the current LOA is that the first examples are something that is deeply ingrained usually from birth on and it’s simply the way you are. The LOA is saying you can go from a negative person to a positive person simply by thinking only happy thoughts and suppressing all negative thoughts. Ain’t going to happen.

You can change the person you are but it
It takes work, time, perseverance and patients. And like all learned behaviors, you have to first unlearn it and then relearn a new way.

What the LOA is, is like the old adage that says, “Wish in one hand and then **** in the other and look to see which one got full first.”

It requires deep fundamental change starting at a very deep level and working your way up through it.


As I learned early on in my professional career:

Opportunity favors the prepared mind

L.U.C.K. – Laboring Under Correct Knowledge

It ain't easy and it don't come cheap.

[Teapots Happen]

They'll post how they did it by just believing they already look the way they want.


New Testament = New Age:

"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him.

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."



-

[Ocelot]

OK within the mindset of the adherents of this philosophy, for this to work you have to really believe.

Lets say that you want to be more attractive. So you have to really believe that you are becoming more attractive. That means that when you look in the mirror either...

1) You will really believe you see yourself as more attractive.
or
2) You're doing it wrong.

What you're seeing in the testimonies on this website are not objective reports or this system working, it's people doing everything they can to really believe.

[ExMinister]

It's not just about visualization, it's about raising your vibration. Positive thoughts and feelings will raise your spiritual vibratory rate, causing you to attract good things to yourself, and vice versa.

My mom once lent me a set of CDs from an Abraham-Hicks lecture (IMO the second most influential people behind this whole intention fad, after The Secret). I may not have the wording exactly right here (it's been awhile) but Abraham-Hicks was droning on as channelers do about positive feelings and how you can create your own reality just by changing your vibration and visualization, and then someone in the audience asked, as I recall, why their visualizations were not working, and... horror of horrors, someone, I think it was Abraham-Hicks, mentioned the "W" word.

That would be "work."

The person then said, "What do you mean 'work'?? I don't want to work! I just want to visualize things from my couch! Hey, no one said anything about work!"

It was even funnier to listen to Hicks try to come up with an answer. Essentially, that IS exactly what the Law of Attraction teaches. You should be able to manifest anything you like without ever leaving your sofa. :rolleyes:

So, my take on the web site is that these are mostly people who are taking this concept quite seriously and trying to visualize and "happy think" their way to prosperity and health. If they fail, if bad things happen, as Ocelot just mentioned above, well, they did it wrong. Which, by the way, for the perpetrators of this woo, is a wonderful out.

For the people who buy into it, it's a huge potential source of guilt and frustration down the road when something bad happens to them.

I don't think the sellers of this philosophy are all that sincere, but for the average person who saw it on Oprah and really believes it can work, it's a big deal. I don't watch daytime TV but I did watch a few of The Secret episodes a few years ago, where she had on the testimonials of people who had created "Vision Boards" and visualized and succeeded in finding a relationship or whatever. You could see that they were completely sincere and convinced this had turned their lives around. It seemed like they were saying this way of thinking had changed them from feeling like helpless victims into empowered creators of their own reality. I remember Oprah saying something like, "This is what I was doing all along, and I didn't even know it!"

Sadly, it's based on a bit of truth that requires no magical thinking: People who move from a negative, discouraged, helpless victim stance to an empowered, take charge, positive goal-oriented stance will change their lives for the better.

No doubt there are people who are experiencing coincidence, and some who are delusional or just exagerrating to make themselves seem important. But for a lot of them, it's not just confirmation bias that keeps this going, it's the fact that they are going to see results, if nothing else because they're changing their behavior and approach to life.

Just my thoughts. :)

[Wowbagger]

No discussion about The Secret is complete with out this video:
usbNJMUZSwo

[Anders Lindman]

The Law of Attraction is real in a more mundane sense, such as my intentions make me motivated to move in a certain direction which in itself will increase the possibility of meeting situations that match the intentions.

Let's say that I want to become a biologist. Then by taking an education in biology I will 'attract' the chance of getting a job as a biologist.

Then what about the Law of Attraction working by only getting the 'right mindset' or entering an emotional state of 'already having that which you want to attract'?

There could be some truth to that kind of attraction, but if so, what is the science behind it? If I for example want to attract money, would that be possible by only having the correct intent?

[Anders Lindman]

In order for the Law of Attraction (LOA) to work by setting merely an intent, then the mind and the nervous system must be connected to the outside world. Are they? Yes! Quantum mechanics says that particles are entangled. The entire universe can be thought of as a single quantum state, which means that all particles are entangled with all other particles in that universal quantum state.

So in theory, the LOA could possibly work by merely setting a mental/emotional intent.

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

It's not just about visualization, it's about raising your vibration. Positive thoughts and feelings will raise your spiritual vibratory rate, causing you to attract good things to yourself, and vice versa.

My mom once lent me a set of CDs from an Abraham-Hicks lecture (IMO the second most influential people behind this whole intention fad, after The Secret). I may not have the wording exactly right here (it's been awhile) but Abraham-Hicks was droning on as channelers do about positive feelings and how you can create your own reality just by changing your vibration and visualization, and then someone in the audience asked, as I recall, why their visualizations were not working, and... horror of horrors, someone, I think it was Abraham-Hicks, mentioned the "W" word.

That would be "work."

The person then said, "What do you mean 'work'?? I don't want to work! I just want to visualize things from my couch! Hey, no one said anything about work!"

It was even funnier to listen to Hicks try to come up with an answer. Essentially, that IS exactly what the Law of Attraction teaches. You should be able to manifest anything you like without ever leaving your sofa. :rolleyes:

I forget whether it's actually in The Secret or one of the similar books, but one of them actually explicitly says that if you work towards your goal then you're doing it wrong, and are actually less likely to achieve it. You should just wish really hard.

Sadly, it's based on a bit of truth that requires no magical thinking: People who move from a negative, discouraged, helpless victim stance to an empowered, take charge, positive goal-oriented stance will change their lives for the better.

I would say that people who have a positive, goal-orientated attitude are more likely to change their lives for the better, but there's certainly no guarantee that they will.

[Kid Eager]

Newsflash! Law of Attraction Creates Zombies! Thread Lives Again! Huzzah!

[Correa Neto]

Creates or attracts zombies?

[Bikewer]

I raised my vibrational attraction rate to the extent that I now have Tricia Helfer stuck to me. Whatever can I do?

[Resume]

I raised my vibrational attraction rate to the extent that I now have Tricia Helfer stuck to me. Whatever can I do?
I will take that problem off your hands for no charge.

[JJM 777]

stories about how they made miraculous changes in their lives, like changing their appearance just by concentrating and believing they already looked the way they wanted to.
Hmmm. The first thing we need is photo before and after, from a few directions, so we see if any change in facial structure (if the claim is about faces not the whole body) has happened at all.

Then we would need evidence of the absence of any surgical operations, but more probably the photos would show no remarkable changes in appearance.

What would motivate someone to anonymously lie about anything paranormal to complete strangers?
Anonymity also means that the stories could easily be all just fiction written by _one and the same person_. Nobody can check an anoymous story, but mention a name so immediately the claim can be checked and refuted. A reason for them to post anonymously, and for us not to trust much anything anonymous.

If a website publishes such stories, the website owner might benefit financially from traffic on the website (ads or some other earning scheme), so the website owner has a motive for writing such fiction claimed to be real life stories of handily anonymous people.

Supernatural claims are also beautiful fairy tales, it can feel beautiful to imagine them and believe in them, without any other profit motive than the beauty of the idea that this would be possible and reality.

[Irish Murdoch]

OK within the mindset of the adherents of this philosophy, for this to work you have to really believe.

Lets say that you want to be more attractive. So you have to really believe that you are becoming more attractive. That means that when you look in the mirror either...

1) You will really believe you see yourself as more attractive.
or
2) You're doing it wrong.

What you're seeing in the testimonies on this website are not objective reports or this system working, it's people doing everything they can to really believe.

That's a fantastically good point, very well made!

[Irish Murdoch]

No discussion about The Secret is complete with out this video:
usbNJMUZSwo

Wonderful!

But why are all these selfish people wishing for bikes and jewellery? Can't they wish for world peace?

[sadhatter]

For example, people on websites like powerfulintentions.org often post stories about how they made miraculous changes in their lives, like changing their appearance just by concentrating and believing they already looked the way they wanted to. The people who claim they have changed their appearance talk about how people will go up to them and say how they look really different, etc. They'll post how they did it just believing they already look the way they want. Often, these are people who don't seem like they would have any motive for lying about this stuff...they aren't selling anything and they're anonymous. What would they have to gain by making this stuff up? I understand that someof these people probably have delusional disorders or they may be experiencing confirmation bias - but allof them?

I've read a lot of really convincing and extraordinary stories from people who don't seem to have anything to gain by lying about these things to total strangers on the Internet. I know that anecdotes are not the most reliable things in the world, but there are just...so many of them. What would people have to gain by making these things up?

By the way, I don't want to limit this question to just things like the Law of Attraction. What would motivate someone to anonymously lie about anything paranormal to complete strangers?

I know that confirmation bias is often responsible for thse things, but I've also read quite a few accounts where confirmation bias was obviously not the case...so if they're not lying or delusional, what are some other alternatives?

What do you skeptics think?

People lie for no reason all the time, once you add in a reason to lie, like in this case, the chances go up drastically.

Your laymen promoting it have a reason to lie, it proves the paranormal, and in general if you like the paranormal , you want to prove it.

And as well, this " The secret " **** lets a lot of people get away with a lot of things. For example...

When i was working in a call center, one of our managers was really into the secret, and why? Because it let him ignore any reasonable objection to any policy. For example, at one point he decided anything under a 100% score on a call would get someone fired, ( to put this in perspective if a customer called in angry it is an automatic 5% deduction. Not if you made them angry, but if they were ****** off by the time they got there.).

Being a fairly senior member i decided to have a talk with him about it. In which i got the " The secret" talk about how it isn't unreasonable because if you want to get 100% badly enough you will get it. Anyone who doesn't is just not trying ( again, to put it in perspective as a top 5% agent, i got , on average 80-100% on my calls. Great, and you would have loved to have me, but easily could have gotten me fired had i not burned through my sick days to avoid this policy. ). Coincidentally this meant that all of us getting paid above the minimum were getting tossed out left right and center, and 17 year old kids who they could treat like **** and not pay as well, were the majority.

If your in a management position the secret is going to appeal to you, but to get any use out of it you have to convince others that it works. And this is only one example of a rather esoteric reason someone would lie about something like this.

[315540]

There are laws of attraction, just not ones that work the way they say it does:

These laws are:
Birds of a feather flock together
Like attracts like.

Positive people attract positive people and negative people attract negative people. Hard working, goal oriented, disciplined, motivated, people attract to themselves the same. They do not attract lazy, non-focused, undisciplined, and unmotivated people.

Critical thinking people do not attract people who think irrationally and emotionally unless the irrational and emotional person has something in them that draws them to the rational side eoyj s deep sense of unbending intent and unflinching purpose. They may falter at times, buy there is some sort of internal gyroscope that pulls them back straight.

The difference between that and the current LOA is that the first examples are something that is deeply ingrained usually from birth on and it’s simply the way you are. The LOA is saying you can go from a negative person to a positive person simply by thinking only happy thoughts and suppressing all negative thoughts. Ain’t going to happen.

You can change the person you are but it
It takes work, time, perseverance and patients. And like all learned behaviors, you have to first unlearn it and then relearn a new way.

What the LOA is, is like the old adage that says, “Wish in one hand and then **** in the other and look to see which one got full first.”

It requires deep fundamental change starting at a very deep level and working your way up through it.


As I learned early on in my professional career:

Opportunity favors the prepared mind

L.U.C.K. – Laboring Under Correct Knowledge

It ain't easy and it don't come cheap.
Then how come law enforcement attracts the opposite, criminals?

[sadhatter]

Then how come law enforcement attracts the opposite, criminals?

Or physicians attracting sick people.

Pharmacists attracting those without medication.

Lawyers attracting people who don't know about law.

Hell, as a personal example, a good portion of my friends are devoutly religious.

What utter bollocks the law of attraction is. By its own logic each copy of the book should be adorned with no less than a half dozen scrota (? proper plural or no?) magically transported to the book due to the sheer volume of bollocks already in it.

[Bad vibe]

I always found a few beers makes everyone seem more attractive

[AmandaM]

"Positive people attract positive people and negative people attract negative people. Hard working, goal oriented, disciplined, motivated, people attract to themselves the same. They do not attract lazy, non-focused, undisciplined, and unmotivated people."

Or does sharing a common goal bind people together?

[sadhatter]

Or does sharing a common goal bind people together?

It isn't even worthy of your well thought out criticism. It is simply ultra wrong.

Every hard worker here can think of a time they have had to work in a team based environment and some knob isn't pulling their weight.

The essence of the secret , and the law of attraction seems to be.

Say something happens that doesn't " Hard workers don't attract non hard workers.".

Say that is proof of your theory.

Make millions.

[Anders Lindman]

One interesting claim with the Law of Attraction is that it functions both for what we want and also for what we don't want. So then we attract that which we fear. Is that true? To some extent I think that is true.

[sadhatter]

One interesting claim with the Law of Attraction is that it functions both for what we want and also for what we don't want. So then we attract that which we fear. Is that true? To some extent I think that is true.

Really?

How so? I find if i encounter something i fear, i either kill it, fight it, or run away from it ( all things that make it no longer there.). And i find the things i fear show up no more in my life than others who do not fear them.

[Ron_Tomkins]

In order for the Law of Attraction (LOA) to work by setting merely an intent, then the mind and the nervous system must be connected to the outside world. Are they? Yes! Quantum mechanics says that particles are entangled. The entire universe can be thought of as a single quantum state, which means that all particles are entangled with all other particles in that universal quantum state.

So in theory, the LOA could possibly work by merely setting a mental/emotional intent.

Aaahh, the ol' Trying to explain woo through a very poor understanding of Quantum Mechanics

Oh, Skeptic Ginger? I got another one for ya.

[shandyjan]

Good post ExMinister! :cool:

[Anders Lindman]

Really?

How so? I find if i encounter something i fear, i either kill it, fight it, or run away from it ( all things that make it no longer there.). And i find the things i fear show up no more in my life than others who do not fear them.

War for example is an attraction caused by fear.

[Anders Lindman]

Aaahh, the ol' Trying to explain woo through a very poor understanding of Quantum Mechanics

Oh, Skeptic Ginger? I got another one for ya.

Are you saying that to consider the entire universe as a single quantum state is false?

[The Man]

I always found a few beers makes everyone seem more attractive


I think that might just be the ‘Libation of Attraction’.

[Ron_Tomkins]

Are you saying that to consider the entire universe as a single quantum state is false?

I'm saying that your conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

Whether or not the universe can be considered a single quantum or not has nothing to do with and most importantly, does not prove The Law Of Attraction to be true.

[Anders Lindman]

I'm saying that your conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

Whether or not the universe can be considered a single quantum or not has nothing to do with and most importantly, does not prove The Law Of Attraction to be true.

That's why I wrote that it possibly could work, not that it definitely would work. ;)

Plus I see now that: "entanglement of a two-party state is necessary but not sufficient for that state to be non-local" -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement#Entanglement_and_non-locality

There is also what is called separable states: "In quantum mechanics, separable quantum states are states without quantum entanglement." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separable_states

How large can a quantum state be? It looks like in theory a quantum state could be so large that it includes all of the universe. But then the question is: is that universal quantum state a separable state or not?

[sadhatter]

War for example is an attraction caused by fear.

While i would dig that as a simon and garfunkle lyric, in real life it is a gross oversimplification of the reasons for war. Try again.

[ExMinister]

One interesting claim with the Law of Attraction is that it functions both for what we want and also for what we don't want. So then we attract that which we fear. Is that true? To some extent I think that is true.

Or maybe we are just somewhat more likely to fear things that are more likely to happen to us individually depending on our circumstances.

For example, if I'm married to someone with a history of domestic violence, then I will fear an attack. If one happens, it is silly to think I attracted that through my fear. I formed that fear based on my situation. If my child is extremely shy and introverted, I might fear she or he will have trouble making friends. This might happen. Did I attract it, or did I just anticipate it based on knowing the situation?

So it seems much of the time (obviously not always) our fears are based on a realistic assessment of our vulnerabilities. In which case, it would seem to confirm a law of attraction at work when it's really not.

Good post ExMinister! :cool:

Thanks!

[Anders Lindman]

While i would dig that as a simon and garfunkle lyric, in real life it is a gross oversimplification of the reasons for war. Try again.

Or maybe we are just somewhat more likely to fear things that are more likely to happen to us individually depending on our circumstances.

For example, if I'm married to someone with a history of domestic violence, then I will fear an attack. If one happens, it is silly to think I attracted that through my fear. I formed that fear based on my situation. If my child is extremely shy and introverted, I might fear she or he will have trouble making friends. This might happen. Did I attract it, or did I just anticipate it based on knowing the situation?

So it seems much of the time (obviously not always) our fears are based on a realistic assessment of our vulnerabilities. In which case, it would seem to confirm a law of attraction at work when it's really not.


Often fear is a useful warning signal. And if we interpret the fear correctly it protects us from danger, so ok, fear doesn't always attract I admit.

Then what about love? Does love attract? Depends of what we mean by love, but yes, I think love attracts.

[Paul2]

Any cases of anyone regrowing a limb that was amputated for some reason?Yes, the key is to promise something through miraculous means that might well happen through non-miracualous means, but claim the result as a miracle.

Clever formula for sucking people in, eh? It can't miss.

[sadhatter]

Often fear is a useful warning signal. And if we interpret the fear correctly it protects us from danger, so ok, fear doesn't always attract I admit.

Then what about love? Does love attract? Depends of what we mean by love, but yes, I think love attracts.

Again, i would dig that as a simon and garfunkle lyric but it is meaningless in the real world.

I love Butterfly knives, have yet to have the opportunity to procure one. I love white castle, but i almost never can get it. I would really love to have the second season of the animated series C.O.P.S but no dice.

Love has nothing to do with getting something.

Your statement at best, would be accurate as " If you go for something your more more likely to get it. " but you don't have to waste your time posting that as it is on next week's episode of " No **** ".

[Anders Lindman]

Again, i would dig that as a simon and garfunkle lyric but it is meaningless in the real world.

I love Butterfly knives, have yet to have the opportunity to procure one. I love white castle, but i almost never can get it. I would really love to have the second season of the animated series C.O.P.S but no dice.

Love has nothing to do with getting something.

Your statement at best, would be accurate as " If you go for something your more more likely to get it. " but you don't have to waste your time posting that as it is on next week's episode of " No **** ".

Ok, but there is misguided love and correctly focused love. Correctly focused love attracts. :):cool:

[sadhatter]

Ok, but there is misguided love and correctly focused love. Correctly focused love attracts. :):cool:

Please stop using more and more generic terms, and jumping around. Define correctly focused love, or your statement is meaningless.

[Anders Lindman]

Please stop using more and more generic terms, and jumping around. Define correctly focused love, or your statement is meaningless.

Correctly focused love is when loving something and attracting it towards oneself. :D

[marplots]

How about smell? Smell can attract or repel.

Isn't this whole "Secret" thing just praying to God without using the word?

If I remember my religious training correctly, you pray for stuff you want, and you believe deeply, then you accept whatever happens as your "answer."

[Anders Lindman]

How about smell? Smell can attract or repel.

Isn't this whole "Secret" thing just praying to God without using the word?

If I remember my religious training correctly, you pray for stuff you want, and you believe deeply, then you accept whatever happens as your "answer."

I'm not very religious but I find many religious text interesting. The Bible has many such texts, and one related to this is:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." -- Matthew 7:7-12

[sadhatter]

Correctly focused love is when loving something and attracting it towards oneself. :D

I can understand if english is not your first language, but your going to have to try that again, to a native english speaker it is gibberish.

[Anders Lindman]

I can understand if english is not your first language, but your going to have to try that again, to a native english speaker it is gibberish.

As an example, if I do something I love to do, and it works in harmony with everybody else, then that is correctly focused love. If I do something just because I believe I ought to do it in the name of love, but feel miserable, then that is misguided love.

[Craig4]

I'm not very religious but I find many religious text interesting. The Bible has many such texts, and one related to this is:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." -- Matthew 7:7-12

Yeah, that's just a fairy story, nothing to get all worked up about.

[Anders Lindman]

Yeah, that's just a fairy story, nothing to get all worked up about.

My interpretation of that Bible quote is that when attracting correctly those things will be given to us, if it is in alignment with the 'do unto others...' law.

[Ladewig]

My interpretation of that Bible quote is that when attracting correctly those things will be given to us, if it is in alignment with the 'do unto others...' law.

So why do so many Christians, and other folks who align themselves correctly or focus their love correctly, die painful deaths from wasting illnesses? Why do so many folks who focus their love correctly watch their children die from cancer? And as a follow up question, if doctors save a child diagnosed with cancer, should the credit be given to the doctors and all the scientists, inventors, and technicians who built the foundations of modern medicine or should the credit be given to the parents who sent a healing intention into the universe?

[Anders Lindman]

So why do so many Christians, and other folks who align themselves correctly or focus their love correctly, die painful deaths from wasting illnesses? Why do so many folks who focus their love correctly watch their children die from cancer? And as a follow up question, if doctors save a child diagnosed with cancer, should the credit be given to the doctors and all the scientists, inventors, and technicians who built the foundations of modern medicine or should the credit be given to the parents who sent a healing intention into the universe?

If we look at the Bible quote again: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

Ask and it will be given to you. But what is 'it'? Seek and you will find. But find what?

The next Bible quote gives a clue: "Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone?"

This tells us that what we get is often out of alignment with what we ask for.

[sadhatter]

As an example, if I do something I love to do, and it works in harmony with everybody else, then that is correctly focused love. If I do something just because I believe I ought to do it in the name of love, but feel miserable, then that is misguided love.

Then my examples still stand. I love to collect knives, and i especially love to collect interesting knives, i work in harmony with knife salesmen providing them money on a rather consistent basis, not to mention friendly conversation about topics that most people find dull as heck ( no pun intended.). Yet still this does not cause me to be able to procure what i am looking for.

In short, law of attraction busted, move on.

[Pup]

If we look at the Bible quote again: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."

Ask and it will be given to you. But what is 'it'? Seek and you will find. But find what?

The next Bible quote gives a clue: "Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone?"

This tells us that what we get is often out of alignment with what we ask for.

No... the clue implies that what you want will be given to you. It's a rhetorical question; obviously you'd give your son bread if he asked for it, and not a stone.


7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12

[Craig4]

Correctly focused love is when loving something and attracting it towards oneself. :D

Try coming to grips with the fact that the Universe(s) exist for no human purpose. You simply are and you have a limited amount of time to exist. Best not waste your one shot at existence wallowing in the absurd.

[ExMinister]

I'm not very religious but I find many religious text interesting. The Bible has many such texts, and one related to this is:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." -- Matthew 7:7-12

Odd that Law of Attraction believers often use these same passages as if they support their idea that the universe is happy to give them great wealth and great love if they only put out the right vibrations.

Just one chapter earlier Jesus clearly says: "No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and like the other; or he will honor one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."

"For this reason I say to you, Do not worry for your life, what you will eat and what you will drink, or for your body, what you will wear." (Matthew 6:24)

He also specifically says, "If therefore you who err, know how to give good gifts to your sons, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him?" (Matthew 7:11)

Nothing there about to "those who visualize what they want," or to "those who repeat affirmations about what they want," nothing there about how you can/should amass great earthly riches by praying in this way.

In fact, Matthew 6:19, "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures buried in the ground... but lay up for yourselves a treasure in heaven... For where your treasure is, there also is your heart."

And, Matthew 6:7, "And when you pray, do not repeat your words like the pagans, for they think that because of much talking they will be heard."

So when people try to use the Bible to support the LOA stuff, which involves the use of visualization and affirmations, it doesn't really work.

[Anders Lindman]

No... the clue implies that what you want will be given to you. It's a rhetorical question; obviously you'd give your son bread if he asked for it, and not a stone.

Yes it's an obvious question. And that's why Jesus said it! (Why else would he have said it.) It's an allegory for how we ask for things in a misaligned way and therefore end up getting the wrong things.

[Anders Lindman]

Try coming to grips with the fact that the Universe(s) exist for no human purpose. You simply are and you have a limited amount of time to exist. Best not waste your one shot at existence wallowing in the absurd.

In a way time is limited, yet I plan to live a very long time with the help of life extension, stress reduction and things like that. Audrey De Grey talks about escape velocity in aging and how it will become possible to extend our lifespans indefinitely. :cool:

I love how they in The Secret talked about growing younger.

[Craig4]

In a way time is limited, yet I plan to live a very long time with the help of life extension, stress reduction and things like that. Audrey De Grey talks about escape velocity in aging and how it will become possible to extend our lifespans indefinitely. :cool:

I love how they in The Secret talked about growing younger.

That's nice. None of your beliefs or stupid little superstitions matter.

[Anders Lindman]

Odd that Law of Attraction believers often use these same passages as if they support their idea that the universe is happy to give them great wealth and great love if they only put out the right vibrations.

Just one chapter earlier Jesus clearly says: "No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and like the other; or he will honor one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."

"For this reason I say to you, Do not worry for your life, what you will eat and what you will drink, or for your body, what you will wear." (Matthew 6:24)

He also specifically says, "If therefore you who err, know how to give good gifts to your sons, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him?" (Matthew 7:11)

Nothing there about to "those who visualize what they want," or to "those who repeat affirmations about what they want," nothing there about how you can/should amass great earthly riches by praying in this way.

In fact, Matthew 6:19, "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures buried in the ground... but lay up for yourselves a treasure in heaven... For where your treasure is, there also is your heart."

And, Matthew 6:7, "And when you pray, do not repeat your words like the pagans, for they think that because of much talking they will be heard."

So when people try to use the Bible to support the LOA stuff, which involves the use of visualization and affirmations, it doesn't really work.

That's some of my favorite Bible quotes. In the new version it even says money instead of mammon:

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." -- Matthew 6:24 (New International Version)

We should not serve money. Money should serve us. :cool:

And the quote about storing treasures is also important. Money should flow. Money is like the blood flow in society. If money and other treasures are stored away they become stagnant, a block, similar to a cardiovascular disease in the body. However, nothing wrong with having a lot of money if we can use it properly.

[Anders Lindman]

That's nice. None of your beliefs or stupid little superstitions matter.

But Aubrey De Grey is a PhD scientist. And Ray Kurzweil also talks about extending our lifespans indefinitely. Yay!

[Ron_Tomkins]

Again, i would dig that as a simon and garfunkle lyric but it is meaningless in the real world.

I love Butterfly knives, have yet to have the opportunity to procure one. I love white castle, but i almost never can get it. I would really love to have the second season of the animated series C.O.P.S but no dice.

Love has nothing to do with getting something.

Your statement at best, would be accurate as " If you go for something your more more likely to get it. " but you don't have to waste your time posting that as it is on next week's episode of " No **** ".

Ok, but there is misguided love and correctly focused love. Correctly focused love attracts. :):cool:

And let me take a wild guess about how you go on identifying when it is correctly focused love and when it is incorrectly focused love:

It if it works, then it means you were using correctly focused love
If it doesn't work, then it means you were using incorrectly focused love


Anyone wanna tell me the name of that logical fallacy?

[ExMinister]

That's some of my favorite Bible quotes. In the new version it even says money instead of mammon:

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." -- Matthew 6:24 (New International Version)

We should not serve money. Money should serve us. :cool:

And the quote about storing treasures is also important. Money should flow. Money is like the blood flow in society. If money and other treasures are stored away they become stagnant, a block, similar to a cardiovascular disease in the body. However, nothing wrong with having a lot of money if we can use it properly.

Well, sure, according to you maybe, just not according to the Gospel of Matthew, from which you quoted.

[ExMinister]

And let me take a wild guess about how you go on identifying when it is correctly focused love and when it is incorrectly focused love:

It if it works, then it means you were using correctly focused love
If it doesn't work, then it means you were using incorrectly focused love


Anyone wanna tell me the name of that logical fallacy?

Could it be another Universal Law related to the Law of Attraction? The Law of No Matter What Happens, I'm Still Right.

[Ladewig]

Yes it's an obvious question. And that's why Jesus said it! (Why else would he have said it.) It's an allegory for how we ask for things in a misaligned way and therefore end up getting the wrong things.


No, it is not. Please read post #69.

Furthermore, how is it even possible to ask for bread from one's father in a misaligned way? Or more precisely, how is it possible to misalign one's request for bread so dramatically, that one's father would give one a stone instead of bread?

[Anders Lindman]

Well, sure, according to you maybe, just not according to the Gospel of Matthew, from which you quoted.

The quote from Matthew talks about storing treasures. That's different from using treasures. If money and other treasures are just stored away they are hindered from flowing, they become like a blood clot that clogs up the cardiovascular system. So it's the stockpiling of stuff that Jesus talked about. (someone should tell Alex Jones about that since he often recommends stockpiling all kinds of things, like food, gold and ammunition :D).

[Anders Lindman]

No, it is not. Please read post #69.

Furthermore, how is it even possible to ask for bread from one's father in a misaligned way? Or more precisely, how is it possible to misalign one's request for bread so dramatically, that one's father would give one a stone instead of bread?

Oh, ok I see now. Yes, Jesus probably meant that if ordinary people know how to give their children the correct things, the how much will the Father in heaven do that!

A misguided wanting can for example be to want money and then put up with a job that one hates. Or do evil things because of some wanting.

[Anders Lindman]

And let me take a wild guess about how you go on identifying when it is correctly focused love and when it is incorrectly focused love:

It if it works, then it means you were using correctly focused love
If it doesn't work, then it means you were using incorrectly focused love


Anyone wanna tell me the name of that logical fallacy?

It's called a tautology. So it was not a serious attempt to make a real definition.

[Ron_Tomkins]

It's called a tautology. So it was not a serious attempt to make a real definition.

No, it's not a tautology.

Suppose I were to tell you that my hand is magical and that every time I wave it, a car passes by.

I wave my hand several times but nothing happens. So I say "That time I wasn't really feeling it, let me focus more". Then I keep waving it. Eventually, we may see a car passing by and I say "See, that time I was really feeling it". Then I try again and for a while nothing happens, so I go back to claiming "I'm not really feeling it yet". In this way, I ignore the misses by claiming I wasn't really feeling it, but whenever there's a hit, I simply claim that's because I was feeling it.

[Anders Lindman]

No, it's not a tautology.

Suppose I were to tell you that my hand is magical and that every time I wave it, a car passes by.

I wave my hand several times but nothing happens. So I say "That time I wasn't really feeling it, let me focus more". Then I keep waving it. Eventually, we may see a car passing by and I say "See, that time I was really feeling it". Then I try again and for a while nothing happens, so I go back to claiming "I'm not really feeling it yet". In this way, I ignore the misses by claiming I wasn't really feeling it, but whenever there's a hit, I simply claim that's because I was feeling it.

My tautology was: Correctly focused love is when loving something and attracting it towards oneself.

I was basically saying that correctly focused love and the Law of Attraction are the same thing. So if we have correctly focused love then we have the Law of Attraction. That's a tautology rather than a correct definition.

[Ron_Tomkins]

My tautology was: Correctly focused love is when loving something and attracting it towards oneself.

My tautology is: Correctly focused hand energy is when I wave my hand and a car passes by.

I was basically saying that correctly focused love and the Law of Attraction are the same thing. So if we have correctly focused love then we have the Law of Attraction. That's a tautology rather than a correct definition.

It has been explained to you that there is no such thing as correctly focused love as some sort of mythical magnetic power that attracts people. Focusing your love on someone, by itself, does not bring that person to you. There are countless examples in the lives of hundreds of people that prove this.

[Anders Lindman]

My tautology is: Correctly focused hand energy is when I wave my hand and a car passes by.



It has been explained to you that there is no such thing as correctly focused love as some sort of mythical magnetic power that attracts people. Focusing your love on someone, by itself, does not bring that person to you. There are countless examples in the lives of hundreds of people that prove this.

That's more like a definition than a tautology. Maybe my statement too could be seen as a definition! That the Law of Attraction is correctly focused love.

Focusing love on a person does not automatically bring that person to me. It depends on whether the love is misguided or correctly focused. Only correctly focused love attracts.

[Ron_Tomkins]

Okay, you're just going in circles with your circular definition and not even bothering to read what I'm telling you. I had enough of this silliness. Enjoy your delusion. Bye.

[Anders Lindman]

Okay, you're just going in circles with your circular definition and not even bothering to read what I'm telling you. I had enough of this silliness. Enjoy your delusion. Bye.

Circular definition. Yes, that's more like it. Now, is a circular definition a tautology?