Why are Bigfoot casts shaped so perfectly

[Careyp74]

So, I have seen many casts, and have to wonder why people would believe that perfectly cast tracks are real? Sure, back in the day there was not enough critical thinking on the subject, but what causes someone today to fall for it?

[makaya325]

So, I have seen many casts, and have to wonder why people would believe that perfectly cast tracks are real? Sure, back in the day there was not enough critical thinking on the subject, but what causes someone today to fall for it?

Actually, most casts are barely noticable to most people. The reason why some are perfect has to do with the kind of soil the alleged organism made contact with.

[Careyp74]

most casts, or most tracks?

ETA: do you have a source for this data?

[Akhenaten]

Actually, most casts are barely noticable to most people. The reason why some are perfect has to do with the kind of soil the alleged organism made contact with.





What is your experience of making casts?

[makaya325]

most casts, or most tracks?

ETA: do you have a source for this data?

http://www.ghosttheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bigfoot.jpg

http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/papers/images/jgreen5.jpg

http://www.ashevilleparanormalsociety.com/sitebuilder/images/bigfoot2-484x275.jpg

http://www.api.sg/research/MYbigfoot/bfoo_5.jpg

http://www.highdesertbigfoot.com/cast.jpg

[William Parcher]

This one is considered authentic because it is so imperfect. The Bigfoot had it's foot all busted up, and no hoaxer would do that, nor know about how a broken foot should look.

Available for only $48 (http://www.boneclones.com/KO-043L.htm)


Dr. Krantz concluded that these deformities are consistent with the anatomy and pathology expected of a crippled non-human, large-massed bipedal animal, and that the precise correspondence of the crippled pathology to the structure indicated by the non-deformed foot was consistent with the physical adaptations necessary for bipedal locomotion of a large-massed animal. Further, he stated that the knowledge of physics, anatomy and bipedal locomotion that would be needed for someone to fake that structure would be so specialized as to make fakery unlikely.

[makaya325]

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/bigfoot2.html

I have casts from this site

[makaya325]

This one is considered authentic because it is so imperfect. The Bigfoot had it's foot all busted up, and no hoaxer would do that, nor know about how a broken foot should look.

Available for only $48 (http://www.boneclones.com/KO-043L.htm)

Never rule out hoaxers. While people give them to much credit at times, they are capable of amazing things, however, it takes quite alot of effort

[Akhenaten]

Never rule out hoaxers. While people give them to much credit at times, they are capable of amazing things, however, it takes quite alot of effort





What do people give hoaxers too much credit for?

What amazing things are hoaxers capable of?

What effort is involved.

What is your experience of making casts?

[makaya325]

What do people give hoaxers too much credit for?

Performing pranks every single area where bigfoot is allegdly seen

What amazing things are hoaxers capable of?

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-08-15


Dr. Krantz himself warned against this attitude by citing a case where widely spaced tracks led up a hill — too wide for a human to have made them. But it was discovered that the tracks were made by someone bounding down the hill wearing the feet backwards.


What effort is involved.

Knowing if someone will wander into the area, time of day, realistic details involved

yeo

[Careyp74]

http://www.ghosttheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/bigfoot.jpg

http://home.clara.net/rfthomas/papers/images/jgreen5.jpg

http://www.ashevilleparanormalsociety.com/sitebuilder/images/bigfoot2-484x275.jpg

http://www.api.sg/research/MYbigfoot/bfoo_5.jpg

http://www.highdesertbigfoot.com/cast.jpg

I don't see how any of those links support your statements.

[makaya325]

I don't see how any of those links support your statements.

The tracks are not all perfectly shaped, and are distorted

[Careyp74]

yeo

ok, can you please tell us then, how any tracks that are cast and claimed to be bigfoot, could possibly be ruled out as a hoaxer, especially if there has never been a bigfoot captured to study?

[Careyp74]

The tracks are not all perfectly shaped, and are distorted

and what does that mean?

[Careyp74]

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/bigfoot2.html

I have casts from this site

is this an appeal to authority? I am supposed to take your word for truth because you have replicas of casts of a mythological creature purchased from a company that makes replica casts?

[bluesjnr]

Yeah those hoaxers they are really troublesome.

I'm glad I bought my anatomically correct and palaeontologist confirmed big foot skull from a reputable souvenir shop. Suckers.

[desertgal]

The tracks are not all perfectly shaped, and are distorted

I'm not clear what that has to do with the OP?

So, I have seen many casts, and have to wonder why people would believe that perfectly cast tracks are real? Sure, back in the day there was not enough critical thinking on the subject, but what causes someone today to fall for it?

ETA: By the same token, I'm always amazed at people who fall for the fuzzy pictures of Bigfoot, given the advancements in camera technology.

[William Parcher]

So, I have seen many casts, and have to wonder why people would believe that perfectly cast tracks are real? Sure, back in the day there was not enough critical thinking on the subject, but what causes someone today to fall for it?


Those same "back in the day" tracks are still being regarded as authentic. Your question may be more sublime than you know because it assumes that Bigfootery has "matured" and no longer accepts what it once did. Only a certain percentage of that "classic" BF evidence (say pre-1975) is widely regarded as hoax amongst the Bigfooters. You might mistakenly think that all sorts of that old stuff is now regarded as fake. Those old perfectly-shaped tracks are generally regarded as foundational to Bigfoot existence.

Another interesting question: Can anyone point out any proposed Bigfoot track cast that is universally regarded as fake? Not a maybe - but rather one where 100% of the people say it is fake. Would the person who poured the plaster say it is fake too?

[desertgal]

Yeah those hoaxers they are really troublesome.

I'm glad I bought my anatomically correct and palaeontologist confirmed big foot skull from a reputable souvenir shop. Suckers.

Is that Jay Leno? :D

[LTC8K6]

http://orgoneresearch.com/2009/10/21/bigfoot-compendium/

Lots of info on bigfoot tracks and casting same.

[learner]

Actually, most casts are barely noticable to most people. The reason why some are perfect has to do with the kind of soil the alleged organism made contact with.


How can a cast be barely noticeable? they are about 15" long and 9" wide as far as i can be bothered to find out.

Probably weigh enough to put your back out.

Do you mean footprints by any chance?

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Didn't Coleman try to brush away the perfect nature of old casts by claiming they were "cleaned up" and had certain aspects sanded down?

[LTC8K6]

Didn't Coleman try to brush away the perfect nature of old casts by claiming they were "cleaned up" and had certain aspects sanded down?

I don't know if it was Coleman, buy yeah a lot of those nice looking casts have been cleaned up. When you pour in sand or dirt, you get a cast covered with sand or dirt on the bottom and edges. So, you sand all that junk off the cast and then hold it up and say "bigfoot"!

Which immediately begs a question about dermal ridges still being visible on a cast that must have been cleaned up...

[kitakaze]

A scene from Ohio's Salt Fork State Park...

Let me get my ketchup. It were teh Bigfoots...

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1231

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1230

http://forums.randi.org/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1229

Teh Bigfooooots!

[Andrew Wiggin]

I'd say real plaster cast of a real impression of a fake foot. Where you want to draw the line and say what part of that is 'fake plaster cast' is up to you.

I call fake foot, because the various famous casts out there don't look like a foot with any flex. I used to cast tracks when I was a kid, and you could expect, especially with animals with big flat feet, like bear and humans, that the track would crack and distort from the movement. On a barefoot human track, the heel is deep, since it hits first, and takes the brunt of the impact and weight for a moment. Then the foot rolls forward, sometimes leaving crack marks in the soil, before finally pushing off, leaving a deep toe impression, and possibly cracking and pushing the toe impression back a little bit into the footprint. What we see with the bigfoot print castings is what I'd expect to see if someone carved a foot from a scrap of board, set it down on soft soil, stomped it down to make an impression, then lifted it up. Nothing to suggest a flexible foot. Very flat, and without the deep heel and toe. We're supposedly dealing with a humanoid much larger than a human. Even assuming that the print is from a bigfoot standing still or mincing around, I'd at least want to see more depth, something proportional to the supposed weight/area. Instead, what I see is shallow platelike casts, which I would expect if someone much lighter than a bigfoot was standing on a big wooden board. It's like a snowshoe. A human's weight just won't drive it down deep enough into the dirt to make it plausible that a humungous critter made the track.

A

[Careyp74]

Kit, I recognize the first two pictures, my dog does that to my lawn after every trip to the loo. What is with the red gel?

ETA:that gives me a great idea, look for tracks in my back yard. I know I didn't create any, so what ever I find MUST be a bigfoot. (or just my dog again, I think I am going to rename him sasquatch)

[kitakaze]

Kit, I recognize the first two pictures, my dog does that to my lawn after every trip to the loo. What is with the red gel?

It's ketchup. It helps bring out the Bigfoot nature of the impression. On french fries or on Bigfoot - pass the ketchup.

[Drewbot]

THE WAY IT IS:

The authenticity of the old, venerated plaster casts of yore, is supported by BIGFOOTRY.

THE WAY IT SHOULD BE:

BIGFOOTRY is supported by the authenticity of the old, venerated plaster casts of yore.

[Careyp74]

THE WAY IT IS:

The authenticity of the old, venerated plaster casts of yore, is supported by BIGFOOTRY.

of course, no bigfoot, no bigfoot tracks.


THE WAY IT SHOULD BE:

BIGFOOTRY is supported by the authenticity of the old, venerated plaster casts of yore.

Why do you say this isn't also the case?

[Drewbot]

Why do you say this isn't also the case?

If the casts had any scientific value, then Bigfootry would be supported by this evidence. Instead, Bigfootry props up casts of no scientific value.*

* no scientific value regarding an Unidentified, hairy beast, however there may be scientific value in the study of legends, and how they permeate societies throughout history.

[Careyp74]

If the casts had any scientific value, then Bigfootry would be supported by this evidence. Instead, Bigfootry props up casts of no scientific value.*

* no scientific value regarding an Unidentified, hairy beast, however there may be scientific value in the study of legends, and how they permeate societies throughout history.

ok, I think I understand what you are saying. I agree, and my last post is still correct, as far as the scientific community goes, just not with the Big Foot sympathizers.

[kitakaze]

THE WAY IT IS:

The authenticity of the old, venerated plaster casts of yore, is supported by BIGFOOTRY.

THE WAY IT SHOULD BE:

BIGFOOTRY is supported by the authenticity of the old, venerated plaster casts of yore.

It's Bigfootery. I'm willing to slug this out. :k:

[Careyp74]

It's Bigfootery. I'm willing to slug this out. :k:

I thought we were discussing the legion of believers that march on our common sense!

[kitakaze]

I thought we were discussing the legion of believers that march on our common sense!

You mean why Bigfoot casts are shaped so perfectly? Sure we are. We can talk about the legion of believers that march on our common sense, too, if you like. The collective noun is Bigfootery.;)

[Correa Neto]

Yep. Bigfootery. That's how we spelled since the start of that defunct PGF thread. Someone could do a search ad find out who used it first.

Oh, the footprints- simple. The hoaxer(s) were fools enough to press the fake feet vertically on the ground. No attempt to recreate actual montion. Footers were even bigger fools to bite it all...

[Careyp74]

You mean why Bigfoot casts are shaped so perfectly? Sure we are. We can talk about the legion of believers that march on our common sense, too, if you like. The collective noun is Bigfootery.;)

no, no, no. I am talking about the foot soldiers, the Bigfootry. OK, bad joke.

[William Parcher]

Drewbt can call it whatever he wants. I can call him Drewbt if I want.

[GT/CS]

Mak goes away for a few days so y'all start picking on each other!!!

[William Parcher]

Mak goes away for a few days so y'all start picking on each other!!!

Reported

[Correa Neto]

We are all atention whores.

Can I report myself?

[kitakaze]

Can I report myself?

Perfect spelling? Which one will you be reporting? Correa 1 or Correa 2?

[Drewbot]

Drewbt can call it whatever he wants. I can call him Drewbt if I want.

As long as you do it with respect. I am a JREF member after all.

Back to the topic, we know that many AUTHENTIC bigfoot casts contain dermal ridges which are most likely the result of plaster/media-flow artifacts, however, are we able to tell which ones have the caster's THUMBPRINTS in the freaking big toe, or ball of the foot area?

[Correa Neto]

Thumbprints from the caster, from the hoaxer or from a real bigfoot?

Kit- I must report the Correa who refuses to acknowledge he needs glasses.

And I'm not talking about those with beer inside...

[LTC8K6]

We are all atention whores.

Can I report myself?

I have already reported you.

Bigfootery, footers.

Bigfootry, foots. ?

[William Parcher]

OK, bad joke.


This one is good. :D


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/3cd56a37.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/a13ef987.jpg

[Drewbot]

Not all prints turn out perfectly, just ask Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum from Idaho State University.
http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/bodycast/images/clean_cast_guide7.jpg

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_197054afc77ec5a1ca.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18180)

[Careyp74]

This one is good. :D


http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/3cd56a37.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/a13ef987.jpg

yes, that is indeed my turkey foot, good eye. :)

[Marduk]

This one is considered authentic because it is so imperfect. The Bigfoot had it's foot all busted up, and no hoaxer would do that, nor know about how a broken foot should look.

Available for only $48 (http://www.boneclones.com/KO-043L.htm)

loved the description
The deformed print shows a missing toe,
so its not a lesser spotted four toed bigfoot then ?
:D

[GT/CS]

This is a serious question.

How can the so-called dermal ridges show up when plaster is poured onto soil? Well, I know how they form but how are they visible when the cast is lifted with all that dirt stuck to it? Is there only a certain type of soil that allows the artifacts to be visible? Do the people doing the casting clean out the print before they cast it? Do they go way beyond cleaning by packing the soil down to make sure they get a good cast, or maybe even help form things a little? IMO if they touch it at all they have destroyed it.

[William Parcher]

how are they visible when the cast is lifted with all that dirt stuck to it?

Look at CA-19. (http://www.orgoneresearch.com/IMG_3427.jpg) The "dirt" is still embedded there. I think it needs to be superfine dust/dirt (fly ash they call it) to consistently produce casting artifacts that look like dermal ridges.

There is a lot of info on Matt Crowley's (tube) website (http://www.orgoneresearch.com/dermalridges.htm).

[William Parcher]

Here is CA-20. This would be pure white if there was no embedded substrate.