FBI Issues Alert Against Almanac Carriers

[Solitaire]

FBI Issues Alert Against Almanac Carriers (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20031229%2F155854297.htm&sc=1110)

Huh? If your can't fold up your road map then you go to jail?

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Synchronicity
FBI Issues Alert Against Almanac Carriers (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20031229%2F155854297.htm&sc=1110)

Huh? If your can't fold up your road map then you go to jail?

These warnings are getting more and more general/weird.

[Soapy Sam]

So far, at least they are stupidly logical.
When they issue warnings about terrorists using Remote Viewing and Astral Projection to attack their targets, I'll know America has finally flipped.

[Ladewig]

from the posted link-
"For local law enforcement, it's just to help give them one more piece of information to raise their suspicions,'' said David Heyman, a terrorism expert for the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. ``It helps make sure one more bad guy doesn't get away from a traffic stop, maybe gives police a little bit more reason to follow up on this.''

WTF. If police officers pull over a car and can find nothing more incriminating than an almanac, then they have found nothing at all and should let the driver go. Apparently the police are going from harassing people who are "driving while black" to harassing people who are "driving while educated."

Every U.S. almanac that I have seen includes documents from the founding fathers including the Bill of Rights. Perhaps people searched for having an almanac should turn to the page that describes the 4th amendment and let the officers read it.

When I read about Robert Jordan being rejected in 1996 by the New London, Conn., police department after scoring too high on an IQ test, little did I realize that it was the beginning of a trend.

___________________

Footnote. Jordan lost the lawsuit. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in New York upheld the ruling of a Federal judge who said that New London had applied the same standards to everyone who took the test. Jordan had not been discriminated against because of his high test score, the court concluded.

[Crossbow]

Wow! If the Feds are really worried about the dissemenation of weather and astronomical data, then they have a great deal of work to do.

Maybe the Feds better stop that evil, terrorist, Saddam supporting TV show known as the Weather Channel because they post sunrise and sunset times when they do the local forecast six times per hour.
www.weather.com

Or maybe the Feds better stop that evil, terrorist, Saddam supporting web site known as the The Old Farmers Almanac because one can easily determine the astronomical and weather data.
www.almanac.com

Or maybe the Feds better stop those evil, terrorist, Saddam newspapers that post the daily astronomical and weather data.

Or maybe the Feds ... (well, you get the idea).

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Ladewig
WTF. If police officers pull over a car and can find nothing more incriminating than an almanac, then they have found nothing at all and should let the driver go.

What makes you think that they won't?

Originally posted by Ladewig
Apparently the police are going from harassing people who are "driving while black" to harassing people who are "driving while educated."

I don't see how that is so apparent. For what reason does it seem apparent to you?

The FBI noted that use of almanacs or maps may be innocent, ``the product of legitimate recreational or commercial activities.'' But it warned that when combined with suspicious behavior - such as apparent surveillance - a person with an almanac ``may point to possible terrorist planning.''

MattJ

[Ladewig]

aerocontrols-
What makes you think that they won't?


Statements like this one:

David Heyman, a terrorism expert for the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. "It helps make sure one more bad guy doesn't get away from a traffic stop, maybe gives police a little bit more reason to follow up on this.''

An almanac is not probable cause. Searching a car because an officer saw an almanac in plain sight is absurd.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Ladewig
An almanac is not probable cause. Searching a car because an officer saw an almanac in plain sight is absurd.

I read the bit you've quoted a couple of times. I don't see the part where it says that an almanac has become probable cause, or that cars should be searched if an officer sees an almanac in plain sight.

Since when does 'a little bit more reason to follow up' equal 'probable cause for a search'?

[CFLarsen]

Next, road maps will be suspicious. Then, taxi drivers will be incarcerated indefinitely, because they carry a map in their head. Uhuh, too big a risk having those guys running loose.

In due time, we will see this:

"Due to the risk of potential terrorists travelling by bus or train, all tickets will be burned. All road signs and all maps will be destroyed, as well.

Geography is no longer allowed in schools.

It is prohibited to ask for or give directions.

There will be a curfew from 6:30am to half past 6 in the morning."

It will happen. You mark my words.

[whitefork]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Geography is no longer allowed in schools. Fait accompli here in the US.

[Luke T.]

Originally posted by CFLarsen

It is prohibited to ask for...directions.


It always has been for the male of the species.

[aerocontrols]

An inner-city anti-gang police unit passes on the following to other police units:

It has become increasingly common for gang members to wear 'do-rags' sporting the color of their gang. Although many people not in gangs wear such headwear, it may be one more piece of evidence that the person you are questioning is in a gang.

From this we will then jump to the conclusion that

1) Do-rags are probable cause. Searching the car of anyone wearing one is now legal.

2) Do-rags will be banned.

3) Handkerchiefs (about as similar to Do-rags as Old Farmer's is to any true almanac) become probable cause

Are these conclusions reasonable?

If police have a reason to believe that do-rag use is common among gang members, should the fact that do-rag use occurs outside of gangs stop them from sharing that information with other police?

I guess I really can't see anything objectionable in this warning without letting my imagination run wild.


MattJ

[gnome]

If almanacs are outlawed, only outlaws will have almanacs!!

FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0886879108.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[gnome]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
An inner-city anti-gang police unit passes on the following to other police units:



From this we will then jump to the conclusion that

1) Do-rags are probable cause. Searching the car of anyone wearing one is now legal.

2) Do-rags will be banned.

3) Handkerchiefs (about as similar to Do-rags as Old Farmer's is to any true almanac) become probable cause

Are these conclusions reasonable?

If police have a reason to believe that do-rag use is common among gang members, should the fact that do-rag use occurs outside of gangs stop them from sharing that information with other police?

I guess I really can't see anything objectionable in this warning without letting my imagination run wild.


MattJ

I'm not truly up in arms about this, I'm just having a bit of fun with the idea. If we all can have a good laugh about it just maybe there be a few less instances where an anal-retentive cop uses an almanac alone as reason to harass someone.

[hammegk]

Geez, this just says racial profiling + an almanac is probable cause.

Does anyone truly believe apb's should not mention apparent ethnicity (which may be only a snap judgement based on appearance including skin color)? Surely a few of the pc'libs here must think the mention of etnicity in such cases is a no-no; if not, why not?

[alfaniner]

My prediction is that by the end of next week, CNN will be reporting "Purchases of 2004 Almanacs Soar After Terror Warning".

Of course, Fox will report it this way. "Terrorists Frequenting Barnes & Noble?"

[DrChinese]

Originally posted by Synchronicity
FBI Issues Alert Against Almanac Carriers (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20031229%2F155854297.htm&sc=1110)

Huh? If your can't fold up your road map then you go to jail?

As they (FBI/Homeland Security) play with people's minds on issues like this one, they slowly make some people accept such illogic as "reasonable" in some sense. There is no *known* basis (i.e. benefit) for interrogating people on the basis of their possession of an almanac, but...

Perhaps there could be... should be... I don't know... maybe we should put all ragheads in dentention just to be safe... maybe it is reasonable... they are experts... know things we don't know... must be safe at all costs... trade civil rights for safety... etc.

[Jocko]

Ah, remember the good ol' days when they only got on your case when you started carrying around a tattered paperback of Catcher in the Rye and mumbling to yourself whenever the president was in town?

Or was that just me?

[Crossbow]

I'll bet five bucks that whacky Saddam had at least one almanac before the war started.

Remember when Bush said that Saddam was trying to secretly import Nigerian almanacs. Well, OK, he said uranium, but he really meant almanacs.

:p

[BTox]

This is the only almanac I carry - and btw believe everything in it. Am I in trouble?

http://www.almanac.com/ui/graphics/text.leftbox.090303.gif

[whitefork]

Even that whole astrology section?

It's a nice bit of timing that people tend to buy almanacs at year end, and that's when the announcement comes out.

[Grammatron]

I never considered buying an Almanac, until now. I suspect this is a conspiracy of the powerful Almanac industry to raise sales.

[whitefork]

Oh, and I forgot to add this highly important true fact:

Al-manac is an Arabic word.

What's next on the list? Al-gebra? Al-cohol?

[BTox]

Originally posted by Kullervo
Even that whole astrology section?



Of course. ;)

[Kopji]

Despite reports of suspicious activity, the latest Arizona FBI check uncovers no Almanacs...

[zakur]

Oprah should pick The World Almanac as the next title in her book club. That'll give the FBI fits.

[Ladewig]

It has become increasingly common for gang members to wear 'do-rags' sporting the color of their gang. Although many people not in gangs wear such headwear, it may be one more piece of evidence that the person you are questioning is in a gang.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure what percentage of do-rag wearers are gang members - 40%, 4%, 0.4%? Whatever the ratio is, it can be calculated and a decision can be made as to whether that number is high enough to add suspicion to do-rag wearers. As for terrorists and non-terrorists carrying almanacs, the signal-to-noise ratio is so low as to be meaningless. Possessing an almanac is not an additional data point to use in pinpointing terrorists.

It is like saying Charles Guiteau, John Wilkes Booth, and Lee Harvey Oswald all owned Bibles, so police should consider the possession of a Bible as one more piece of evidence that "helps make sure one more bad guy doesn't get away from a traffic stop, maybe gives police a little bit more reason to follow up on this.''

[Troll]

If you walk into a person's room and see thousands of pictures taken from telephoto lens cameras, you can use that to focus on the person as a "potential" stalker.

If you see a gun rack in the back of the pickup, you can use that to focus on a "potential or probable" hunter

If she has nothing but black clothes, black lipstick and Manson, Danzig and Ministry cds, you can use that to "claim" she may be a "goth chick" ( if so share the info,as I'm lacking in that sort of beauty here).

Like it or not, crossburners, gang bangers, rapists, child molesters, and many others do more often than not, have a common thread with others in their little cliques.

Adding an almanac as something to look for isn't a big freaking deal. How many have actually looked at one of those? Not much good for useful info really, at least not from a "picking a target point of view".

When was the last time you or I were privy to info gathered from inel fathering? All this "chatter" crap could have been telling other idiots to use an almanac to help guide them, and as such add a thing to look for, but it hardly makes it the sole focus. to claim it does makes you nothing more than a sensationalist. Oops, but there I go profiling ya

[CFLarsen]

Troll,

Quite a number of people are quite shocked, when they see what I have in my library, especially when I lived in the US. People I knew quite well would suddenly look at me with suspicion: Hey, what's this guy up to....?

Books on witchcraft, sorcery, nazism, communism, sexual deviants, serial killers, dictators, mind control, conspiracies, racism, fascism, the occult, werewolves, erotica of various persuasions....yup, it's all there.

Steve Grenard would have a heart attack, if he saw it.

But I also have Grimm's fairytales, Winnie-the-Pooh, Peter Rabbit, Astrid Lindgren, Hans Christian Andersen, Charlotte's Web, Wind in the Willows....

And yes, I have the Harry Potter books as well.

Does this make me a potential Bad Guy Deluxe? The thing is, I don't just have books I agree with, quite contrary. E.g. I have "Mein Kampf", together with Mao's Little Red Book, and a rare copy of Gadhaffi's "Green book". All totally incomprehensible. It's crap. But I read them, in order to understand why people, who subscribe to these beliefs, think and act the way they do.

We cannot judge people on what books they have, but only on what they do with the information they learn from them. If we are not allowed to "study the enemy" ourselves, but rely on other people to do it for us, we end up with a dictatorship.

I should be off the hook, though: I don't have an almanac. But I might get one, when I go to Vegas... ;)

[Chupacabras]

I'll dare to propose something here... A book can be used to conceal things, like bombs. Just cut a "window" through the pages and there you have a box. I think the alert is over-simplistic, but it may have something to do with this method.

I hate it when security concerns become asfixiating. Next time I have to travel to the USA, I will probably think of a reason so as to avoid it (I travel very light, but I am ugly!).

Just my POV.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Chupacabras
I'll dare to propose something here... A book can be used to conceal things, like bombs. Just cut a "window" through the pages and there you have a box. I think the alert is over-simplistic, but it may have something to do with this method.

Then, they should certainly stop selling those brick novels at the airport! :)

[Chupacabras]

Unrepentantsinner meets CFLarsen at Atlanta, en route to TAMII:

US - So, did your book sell well?
CF - Nah, It Bombed.



James Randi opening remarks at TAMII:

- ... And we regret the absence of a couple fellow skeptics...



Watch out! :)

[Troll]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Troll,

Quite a number of people are quite shocked, when they see what I have in my library, especially when I lived in the US. People I knew quite well would suddenly look at me with suspicion: Hey, what's this guy up to....?

Books on witchcraft, sorcery, nazism, communism, sexual deviants, serial killers, dictators, mind control, conspiracies, racism, fascism, the occult, werewolves, erotica of various persuasions....yup, it's all there.

Steve Grenard would have a heart attack, if he saw it.

But I also have Grimm's fairytales, Winnie-the-Pooh, Peter Rabbit, Astrid Lindgren, Hans Christian Andersen, Charlotte's Web, Wind in the Willows....

And yes, I have the Harry Potter books as well.

Does this make me a potential Bad Guy Deluxe? The thing is, I don't just have books I agree with, quite contrary. E.g. I have "Mein Kampf", together with Mao's Little Red Book, and a rare copy of Gadhaffi's "Green book". All totally incomprehensible. It's crap. But I read them, in order to understand why people, who subscribe to these beliefs, think and act the way they do.

We cannot judge people on what books they have, but only on what they do with the information they learn from them. If we are not allowed to "study the enemy" ourselves, but rely on other people to do it for us, we end up with a dictatorship.

I should be off the hook, though: I don't have an almanac. But I might get one, when I go to Vegas... ;)

Nice try there.

Never said judge them by it. Merely added it to a checklist.

You should see my library. Anarchist cookbook, Ragnar Benson's Man trapping, CIA Improvised munitions, etc. I'd expect some questions.

[shanek]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Quite a number of people are quite shocked, when they see what I have in my library, especially when I lived in the US. People I knew quite well would suddenly look at me with suspicion: Hey, what's this guy up to....?

Books on witchcraft, sorcery, nazism, communism, sexual deviants, serial killers, dictators, mind control, conspiracies, racism, fascism, the occult, werewolves, erotica of various persuasions....yup, it's all there.

I have a copy of the Necronomicon and other occult books, I have a couple copies of the Koran and a copy of The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran, The Communist Manifesto, some "anti-government" books, several books on Chinese philosphy, almanacs, atlases, and more than a few books on computer security.

I'm sure a random raid on my home by the police would raise more than a couple eyebrows.

I should be off the hook, though: I don't have an almanac. But I might get one, when I go to Vegas... ;)

I thought about having one stuck in the mesh pouch on the side of my travel bag, but considering that I get pulled for the "random" security check every single time I fly I decided that I'd rather actually make it to TAM2. ;)

[shanek]

Originally posted by Troll
Merely added it to a checklist.

No, they didn't. They issued an alert specifically for almanacs and it didn't mention anything else. It's the difference between an almanac leading to suspicion and an almanac being used to support an existing suspicion.

You should see my library. Anarchist cookbook, Ragnar Benson's Man trapping, CIA Improvised munitions, etc. I'd expect some questions.

And you have no problem with having to explain to the authorities why you have perfectly legal books in a free country?

Wait, let me guess—if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, right?

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by shanek
No, they didn't. They issued an alert specifically for almanacs and it didn't mention anything else. It's the difference between an almanac leading to suspicion and an almanac being used to support an existing suspicion.

I haven't read the bulletin in question, but I would like to. Do you have a link to it?

MattJ

[aerocontrols]

At 9988 posts, you are 12 posts away from finding out arcticpenguin's fate.

I hope that whatever happened to him doesn't happen to you.

[Troll]

Originally posted by shanek


No, they didn't. They issued an alert specifically for almanacs and it didn't mention anything else. It's the difference between an almanac leading to suspicion and an almanac being used to support an existing suspicion.



And you have no problem with having to explain to the authorities why you have perfectly legal books in a free country?

Wait, let me guess—if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, right?

show me that they made an alert to look for almanavs and didn't just add it to a check list.

And after McVeigh, I'd have no problem with someone seeing my books then asking me about them. Asking me about them just because I have them, is a different story as I'd have to wonder why I was being investigated. But if someone in rural PA, fitting my description was charged with making a homemade bomb and I was being questioned and the books were discovered, I'd have no issue with them asking more questions based upon the discovery of them. Automatically assuming I'm guilty because of them I'd also have a problem with, just like i would if I was accused of every crime involving a DE .357.