TAM Australia

[Chris H]

A rather tantalising tweet from Kylie Sturgess early this morning.

REMINDER - new Skeptic Zone podcast out, with... news about TAM Australia. Yes, you heard it from us first! www.skepticzone.tv. ;)

I'm 35 minutes into this episode (#56) as I type, and the topic has been mentioned, but no details given so far. Is it safe presume that the 2010 Australian Skeptics Convention has joined forces with the JREF to become TAM Down Under? Anyone heard any goss that they can share?

Cheers,

Chris

[lionking]

Wow, lets hope so. Pencil me in if it's on.

[Alan]

I can't find anything about it around 35 minutes into it (just sad Mind Body Wallet stuff). Can somebody please provide what time it was mentioned?

This is exciting, though. November 2010 is given as a date by Kylie Sturgess on twitter.

podblack
#TAMAustralia revealed on the most recent Skeptic Zone podcast - start planning for November 2010! :) www.skepticzone.tv.
http://twitter.com/podblack

[arthwollipot]

There have been rumours around for a while. First I heard about it was as Richard Saunders was leaving TAM7 he mentioned that he was negotiating with the JREF. My co-host on the podcast has also been involved with its organisation. I haven't been crowing at all because it hadn't yet been officially announced. But yes, it is intended the 2010 convention in Sydney be associated with the JREF for the first TAM Australia. Although until I've seen the official announcement on SWIFT I must stress that this is still only a rumour.

[Chris H]

I can't find anything about it around 35 minutes into it (just sad Mind Body Wallet stuff). Can somebody please provide what time it was mentioned?

This is exciting, though. November 2010 is given as a date by Kylie Sturgess on twitter.

podblack
#TAMAustralia revealed on the most recent Skeptic Zone podcast - start planning for November 2010! :) www.skepticzone.tv.
http://twitter.com/podblack


Hi Alan,

It's at the end of the interview with Rikki Burns and Thomas Perry. ;-)

Cheers,

Chris

[Alan]

Thanks.

I wonder if I'd be able to go to Sydney for it...

[lionking]

Thanks.

I wonder if I'd be able to go to Sydney for it...
I'm certain I can organise a business trip around that time.;)

[arthwollipot]

It's only three hours' drive for me. I may be able to commute...

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Sign me up!

[Orphia Nay]

Oh wow oh wow oh wow!!!

[softstuff]

oohooh ooh ooh ooh
i gotta book wanna book where when ooh ooh ooh yeah yeah yeah

:o kinda excited here.

[lionking]

Any updates, rumours or gossip?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Any updates, rumours or gossip?

There's a rumor that Australia won't be there next year.

[lionking]

There's a rumor that Australia won't be there next year.
What, we're disappearing before 2012?

Bugger.

[Obviousman]

Australia will be swallowed by the Flying Spaghetti Monster in early 2010 but due to the combined positive vibes from the okkers here, the crystals will align to create a virtual world in which TAM Australia is a certainty!

DISCLAIMER: TAM Australia does not cure cancer.

[Madouc]

Apparently it will be held at... The Sydney Masic Centre. Fo serious.

[rjh01]

It is the New South Wales Masonic Club.
Here is their webpage http://www.nswmasonicclub.com.au/index2.htm

It is a four star place. Does include function rooms.

No idea if the rumour is true.

[lionking]

It is the New South Wales Masonic Club.
Here is their webpage http://www.nswmasonicclub.com.au/index2.htm

It is a four star place. Does include function rooms.

No idea if the rumour is true.
Oh I hope so. A Masonic Club with a heap of atheists. :)

[Orphia Nay]

Oh I hope so. A Masonic Club with a heap of atheists. :)

Not to mention a heap of NWO shills. ;)

[Davidlpf]

First Vegas.
Then London.
Next Australia.
Soon the world.

[Foolmewunz]

Well, this is sorely tempting. But, even looking a year ahead, Marcello will only be two and I kinda hate to take him to Oz if he's not going to really be able to appreciate that much, yet.

But it's good to see them spreading the TAMs around. Can Macau or Hong Kong be far behind?

[lionking]

Well, this is sorely tempting. But, even looking a year ahead, Marcello will only be two and I kinda hate to take him to Oz if he's not going to really be able to appreciate that much, yet.

But it's good to see them spreading the TAMs around. Can Macau or Hong Kong be far behind?
We took our Hannah to Bali when she was 11 months old. Of course she doesn't remember it, it it has given us and the other kids countless hours of fun teasing her over it. :D

[Pidge]

So close, yet so far :(

[lionking]

So close, yet so far :(
What? People have kayaked that far. ;)

[Damien Evans]

I wanna go!

I WANNA GO!

[Luciana]

REALLY want to go. *drooling*

[wafonso]

Me too. I just hope it doesn't sell out in 15 minutes, as in the UK...

[arthwollipot]

Me too. I just hope it doesn't sell out in 15 minutes, as in the UK...Agreed.

[rjh01]

Just make sure you have rooms big enough. How about you get a list of interested members and then book for that number plus a few more.

Have the following lists
1. Will come alone, come hell or high water.
2. Will come with partner, come hell or high water.
3. Probable will come alone.
4. Probable will come with partner
5. Please keep me informed.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Just make sure you have rooms big enough. How about you get a list of interested members and then book for that number plus a few more.

Have the following lists
1. Will come alone, come hell or high water.
2. Will come with partner, come hell or high water.
3. Probable will come alone.
4. Probable will come with partner
5. Please keep me informed.

Then what happens when only 20% of them show up?

[Floyt]

Ooooh...

Wouldn't that be nice! Right next door. *bouncy bouncy*

[Damien Evans]

Just make sure you have rooms big enough. How about you get a list of interested members and then book for that number plus a few more.

Have the following lists
1. Will come alone, come hell or high water.
2. Will come with partner, come hell or high water.
3. Probable will come alone.
4. Probable will come with partner
5. Please keep me informed.

Unless TAFE interferes, count me as a 1.

[rjh01]

Then what happens when only 20% of them actually book for TAM?

Did not like your quote so I altered it (alterations in bold). It does not matter how many people actually turn up it is a matter of how many people book and pay for TAM.

That is always the risk you take. You try then to sell them to other people. Even without doing what I suggest you do risk booking the wrong size room. For example if all tickets get sold within 20 minutes that means you did not book a room big enough and you lost big $.

[arthwollipot]

Please remember people! This has not been announced yet! There is still no official confirmation from either the JREF or the Australian Skeptics. Until there is an announcement, there is no TAM Australia.

[Obviousman]

Please remember people! This has not been announced yet! There is still no official confirmation from either the JREF or the Australian Skeptics. Until there is an announcement, there is no TAM Australia.

Spoilsport - you're bringing us down with all your negative vibes, man!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Please remember people! This has not been announced yet! There is still no official confirmation from either the JREF or the Australian Skeptics. Until there is an announcement, there is no TAM Australia.

Has it been cancelled already?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Did not like your quote so I altered it (alterations in bold). It does not matter how many people actually turn up it is a matter of how many people book and pay for TAM.

That is always the risk you take. You try then to sell them to other people. Even without doing what I suggest you do risk booking the wrong size room. For example if all tickets get sold within 20 minutes that means you did not book a room big enough and you lost big $.

Better to sell out a small hall than have a half full large hall.

[rjh01]

It is best to sell the last ticket at the last minute. Anything else is lost profit, either in the form of profit (including people not converted) not made (because you did not book a big enough place) or as you say, unused capacity.

[Wowbagger]

If it's going to be in Australia, they should call it Tim-TAM.

(I mean, someone had to make this joke, eventually... right?)

[Damien Evans]

If it's going to be in Australia, they should call it Tim-TAM.

(I mean, someone had to make this joke, eventually... right?)

The Atheist already calls it that anyway.:D

[wafonso]

And it's official! Sydney, 26-28 November 2010!

[arthwollipot]

Yep, just Tweeted by Richard. I expect there'll be a Swift announcement shortly.

[Obviousman]

Yahoo! I'm getting my tickets ASAP.

Told you the group karma would work!

[SimonD]

Well if it does go ahead, I have room in the WRX if anyone wants to make a road trip from Brisbane

E.T.A Wow that was a quick turn around....

[Damien Evans]

That may be a problem with TAFE. I'll wait and see.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Sign me up!

http://www.skeptics.com.au/latest/announcements/australian-skeptics-announce-tamaustralia2010/

[rjh01]

Odd that their is no SWIFT article yet. Expect that is due to JREF red tape being a bit slower and on a weekend.

[softstuff]

After just returning from a day at Briskepticon yesterday, we'll be booking as soon as tickets are available.

[Obviousman]

Speaking of which... when will they be available? Can we 'pre-book' to avoid disappointment?

[Chris H]

Oh yeah they are...

http://www.youngausskeptics.com/2009/11/tam-australia/

[politas]

Let's just hope they open up pre-bookings early enough to be able to adjust to numbers, and not have the quick sell-out of TAM London.

I know I want to go. I'll probably be missing out on a fairly major tango event to attend, but TAM Australia should definitely be worth it.

[ricklesgibson]

I'd love to go to TAM Australia! & yeah, let's not have a London-like sell out. Plus, with a year's notice, I can save up for the airfare. And, much more importantly, start my training for the 30+ hours of sitting involved. Any tips from trans-hemispheric travelers? My guess would be ample amounts of whisky & narcotics.

[athon]

I'd love to go to TAM Australia! & yeah, let's not have a London-like sell out. Plus, with a year's notice, I can save up for the airfare. And, much more importantly, start my training for the 30+ hours of sitting involved. Any tips from trans-hemispheric travelers? My guess would be ample amounts of whisky & narcotics.

Actually, that's not always a good idea. Alcohol will just dehydrate you, make you want to go pee lots, and won't really knock you out for long. Only thing worse than a 30 hour flight is one where you're feeling hungover at the end.

My only advice is to wear really comfy clothes and get a flight with good movies. :)

I'm just grateful there'll be a TAM I'll only have to drive for three hours to get to.

Athon

[rjh01]

Drink lots of water. Forget about other liquids. Then every hour or so take a short walk, or at least move your legs every few minutes. This is to avoid blood clots.

Also take a few good books to read. Just in case that good movie is not good.

[Jebediah]

I always thought there would be a big conference next year with the SGU guys coming over, but a TAM is pretty sweet.

Looking forward to it

[arthwollipot]

Jebediah! A fellow Canberran! Perhaps we ought to organise a bus.

[Chris H]

Perhaps a good time for Penn and Teller to organise their first Australian tour? ;)

[Riayn]

Very excited about TAM Australia and doubly excited that it's being held in my hometown.

So who's coming? And who needs a couch to crash on?

[lionking]

I'll be there, but can either stay with my sister in the west, or, more likely stay in the place I usually stay in Sydney, the Bayview in William St. Four star and about $150 a night. I should be able to organise some work around TAM so I get the airfares and some of the accommodation covered.

[ricklesgibson]

I'd love to go to TAM Australia! & yeah, let's not have a London-like sell out. Plus, with a year's notice, I can save up for the airfare. And, much more importantly, start my training for the 30+ hours of sitting involved. Any tips from trans-hemispheric travelers? My guess would be ample amounts of whisky & narcotics.
Lol The booze & narcotics part was ironic. Those typically mix poorly, even at sea level. I never drink on flights anyway, but man, some of the flights I was looking at involve 30+ hours travel. I'm usually OK sleeping & reading. How about any tips for who to book airfare with & what's a reasonable price to/from New York. Any, since it'll be my first trip to AUS, I think I'll try to swing some side trips, if I have the coin. Are there must see's for a first timer?

[lionking]

Lol The booze & narcotics part was ironic. Those typically mix poorly, even at sea level. I never drink on flights anyway, but man, some of the flights I was looking at involve 30+ hours travel. I'm usually OK sleeping & reading. How about any tips for who to book airfare with & what's a reasonable price to/from New York. Any, since it'll be my first trip to AUS, I think I'll try to swing some side trips, if I have the coin. Are there must see's for a first timer?
That would be my recommendation. If you are planning to spend some time in Australia, head for Queensland by all means (it's guaranteed to be very hot and very humid), but do yourself a favour and head south to Victoria if you get the chance.

When you get to planning stage, my daughter's partner is a Travel Agent, and he would be the best source of advice for fares, package deals and so. PM me if you want some advice, and this applies to any others who want help.

[eowyn]

I'm coming too!

[arthwollipot]

Very excited about TAM Australia and doubly excited that it's being held in my hometown.

So who's coming? And who needs a couch to crash on?I may need crash space. Depends on the arrangements.

[ricklesgibson]

Crash space would be a plus for this guy too. Considering that I spent 3 hrs per night on avg in my room @ TAM7, I think all I'd need is a bedroll, pillow, and darkness. But if anyone offers a couch, I could get on that.

[Obviousman]

I'm a bout 2.5 hours south of Sydney, so no good for TAM itself but if any overseas visitors want to stay in the area for a while (or visit prior) and need a place to stay, happy to oblige.

[arthwollipot]

If anyone is interested in a tour of Canberra after TAM, I'd be up for arranging that. Even though I can't organise a pissup in a brothel. I'd hire a minibus and I could act as driver/tour guide. I would pick up interested parties in the morning, and drive them down the Hume to our delightful city, on the way taking in the largest wind farm in the Southern Hemisphere on the "shores" of Lake George. I'd take people to Telstra Tower for a good view of the city, to Mount Ainslie (the site of the Catch The Fire Ministries "Spiritual Warfare" on witchcraft), the National Science and Technology Centre, the National Museum, and if the weather's good, maybe even out to my property half an hour outside town for some Southern Hemisphere stargazing.

Do you think anyone would be interested?

[SimonD]

If anyone is interested in a tour of Canberra after TAM, I'd be up for arranging that. Even though I can't organise a pissup in a brothel. I'd hire a minibus and I could act as driver/tour guide. I would pick up interested parties in the morning, and drive them down the Hume to our delightful city, on the way taking in the largest wind farm in the Southern Hemisphere on the "shores" of Lake George. I'd take people to Telstra Tower for a good view of the city, to Mount Ainslie (the site of the Catch The Fire Ministries "Spiritual Warfare" on witchcraft), the National Science and Technology Centre, the National Museum, and if the weather's good, maybe even out to my property half an hour outside town for some Southern Hemisphere stargazing.

Do you think anyone would be interested?

I'd be up for it. Wife might come as well. Any chance you would also take in the Memorial War Museum? It really is worth a look.

[arthwollipot]

I'd be up for it. Wife might come as well. Any chance you would also take in the Memorial War Museum? It really is worth a look.The War Memorial is well worth the trip.

http://www.arthwollipot.com/photography/portfolio/places/canberra/warmemorial.jpg

[athon]

The War Memorial is well worth the trip.

Right next door to my work too. :)

Athon

[Damien Evans]

If anyone is interested in a tour of Canberra after TAM, I'd be up for arranging that. Even though I can't organise a pissup in a brothel. I'd hire a minibus and I could act as driver/tour guide. I would pick up interested parties in the morning, and drive them down the Hume to our delightful city, on the way taking in the largest wind farm in the Southern Hemisphere on the "shores" of Lake George. I'd take people to Telstra Tower for a good view of the city, to Mount Ainslie (the site of the Catch The Fire Ministries "Spiritual Warfare" on witchcraft), the National Science and Technology Centre, the National Museum, and if the weather's good, maybe even out to my property half an hour outside town for some Southern Hemisphere stargazing.

Do you think anyone would be interested?

I certainly would be.

Given it's at the end of November I can go, yay!

[Luciana]

OMG, tickets are around USD 2200. :re: The cheapest is USD 1900, for a 37-hour trip. :re: Totally worth it, but kinda of expensive, uh?

[SimonD]

OMG, tickets are around USD 2200. :re: The cheapest is USD 1900, for a 37-hour trip. :re: Totally worth it, but kinda of expensive, uh?

Never been to Australia, have you? ;)

[Damien Evans]

OMG, tickets are around USD 2200. :re: The cheapest is USD 1900, for a 37-hour trip. :re: Totally worth it, but kinda of expensive, uh?

Depends how long you plan on staying for. If you make a good several week holiday out of it it doesn't look so bad.

[wafonso]

OMG, tickets are around USD 2200. :re: The cheapest is USD 1900, for a 37-hour trip. :re: Totally worth it, but kinda of expensive, uh?

When I went to Brazil last year, the cheapest option was with United via the US, which made for a significantly longer flight but worked well with a stop in Las Vegas on the way back for TAM7. Expedia usually has "interesting" options at good prices if you can live with weird flight times and routes...

[athon]

OMG, tickets are around USD 2200. :re: The cheapest is USD 1900, for a 37-hour trip. :re: Totally worth it, but kinda of expensive, uh?

Now you know how we Aussies feel. ;)

Yep - it's expensive traveling half way around the world. But it is totally worth it if you can scrape the funding together.

Athon

[Hutch]

November 2010? Hmmm, I've been on five Continents so far (I recognize 7 Continents, if you have a different count, I respectfully request that you go jump in the lake) and this would make #6 (I really feel my life will be complete without visiting Antartica).

Very interesting.....

[rjh01]

If anyone is interested in a tour of Canberra after TAM, I'd be up for arranging that. Even though I can't organise a pissup in a brothel. I'd hire a minibus and I could act as driver/tour guide. I would pick up interested parties in the morning, and drive them down the Hume to our delightful city, on the way taking in the largest wind farm in the Southern Hemisphere on the "shores" of Lake George. I'd take people to Telstra Tower for a good view of the city, to Mount Ainslie (the site of the Catch The Fire Ministries "Spiritual Warfare" on witchcraft), the National Science and Technology Centre, the National Museum, and if the weather's good, maybe even out to my property half an hour outside town for some Southern Hemisphere stargazing.

Do you think anyone would be interested?

I think you should give the Plan to spend at least two or three nights in Canberra. It would be worth it. Count me in on the bus tour. I will be your guide. I am one of the few people in Canberra that do not drive.

Tourist attractions (from memory) in Canberra.
- War memorial (worth 1/2 day visit - free)
- National Gallery of Australia (1/2 day - free for permanent exhibition. Pay for special exhibitions)
- High court (1 hour - free) See what a high court judge can do with a blank cheque and instructions to build a high court. This court decides on constitutional issues and is the final court of appeal.
- National Science and Technology Centre (1/2 day - Pay). It is aimed at secondary school age people. Though I have been there several times. One of the highlights is to free fall a couple of meters then a gentle stop. I have pictures of this. If that turns you on then it is worth it.
- Old Parliament house. (1/2 day - $2)
- New Parliament house (1/2 day - free)
- Portrait gallery (1 hour - free)
- National library (1 hour - free) This has small exhibitions that are very interesting.
- cockingtongreen (1/2 day $16.50)

This site has good info http://www.aussie-info.com/places/act/canberra/tourist.php

NB: Money is in local currency. 1 Australian Dollar = 0.9248 U.S. Dollars

[Marius vanderLubbe]

I'd love to go to TAM Australia! & yeah, let's not have a London-like sell out. Plus, with a year's notice, I can save up for the airfare. And, much more importantly, start my training for the 30+ hours of sitting involved. Any tips from trans-hemispheric travelers? My guess would be ample amounts of whisky & narcotics.

I found furious masturbation helps. You usually get a whole row of seats to yourself.

Bollocks aside, I will be hella there, unfortunate accident or magor illness not withstanding.
I am South Australian. Any other SA skeptics considering this pilgramage, second only in importance to the Moto GP at Phillip sland?

[lionking]

OMG, tickets are around USD 2200. :re: The cheapest is USD 1900, for a 37-hour trip. :re: Totally worth it, but kinda of expensive, uh?
As I said earlier, my daughter's partner is a Travel Agent and while you can usually get cheaper fares from the country of origin, this is not always the case. PM me closer to the event and I will give you his contact details if you want.

[hcmom]

*hcmom looks longingly at the Southern Hemisphere...

[CriticalThanking]

Hcmom - keep your eyes up north. Human resources always warns us about letting our eyes drift south. Halo, my tuchus!

CT

[politas]

I think you should give the Plan to spend at least two or three nights in Canberra. It would be worth it. Count me in on the bus tour. I will be your guide. I am one of the few people in Canberra that do not drive.I could billet a few people for a few nights in Canberra after (or before) TAM

NB: Money is in local currency. 1 Australian Dollar = 0.9248 U.S. DollarsThough chances are pretty high that it'll be back down around 80 cents by next November.

[ricklesgibson]

If anyone is interested in a tour of Canberra after TAM, I'd be up for arranging that. Even though I can't organise a pissup in a brothel. I'd hire a minibus and I could act as driver/tour guide. I would pick up interested parties in the morning, and drive them down the Hume to our delightful city, on the way taking in the largest wind farm in the Southern Hemisphere on the "shores" of Lake George. I'd take people to Telstra Tower for a good view of the city, to Mount Ainslie (the site of the Catch The Fire Ministries "Spiritual Warfare" on witchcraft), the National Science and Technology Centre, the National Museum, and if the weather's good, maybe even out to my property half an hour outside town for some Southern Hemisphere stargazing.

Do you think anyone would be interested?
That sounds great. I was thinking I'd make the most of the voyage & spend some time. I'd love to see a few places.

[PixyMisa]

I am so there!

The Masonic Centre may be the ugliest building in Sydney, but it's two minute's walk from my office. :)

[arthwollipot]

If anyone's looking for the place, it's the huge concrete edifice on Goulburn street.

There's no building in Sydney that better fits the word "edifice". You'll see it.

[Sideroxylon]

If anyone is interested in a tour of Canberra after TAM, I'd be up for arranging that. Even though I can't organise a pissup in a brothel. I'd hire a minibus and I could act as driver/tour guide.

Hmmm that would be a pissup in a brewery and a root in a brothel.

The tour sounds like fun. Shame I don't think I could swing getting home for it. Still I reckon its great to have a TAM in Australia all the same.

[arthwollipot]

I've had some offlist interest in the Canberra tour, so I think at this stage we can assume that I will attempt to get this going. George Hrab has expressed an interest in spending non-TAM time in Australia, so I've invited him on the tour. and since I'm also planning on starting up Canberra Skeptics In The Pub in the new year, I've also invited him to do a show. Probably won't hear back from him for a few days at least.

Oh, and Sideroxylon? Yes, I was deliberately mixing my metaphors. Come on, it's not rocket surgery!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I am so there!

The Masonic Centre may be the ugliest building in Sydney, but it's two minute's walk from my office. :)

Ugly? Are you nuts?

http://www.sydneyarchitecture.com/cbd/cbd4-013.htm

[Richard]

Hi all. We expect something on SWIFT soon, but as you know the JREF have been busy with the news about the new President and so on. All is looking good for TAM Australia. We will not be selling tickets yet but will keep you posted.

[Wowbagger]

Ugly? Are you nuts?

http://www.sydneyarchitecture.com/cbd/cbd4-013.htm

It looks like one building dropped from the sky and crashed into another.

[arthwollipot]

"Brutalism".

That's an appropriate description.

[Miss_Kitt]

DAMN IT!!! I have no way to afford this on such short notice! (Yeah, I know, but we've already allocated money and vacation time for the US figure skating championships in January 2010.)

If this becomes an annual or every two-or-three-years event, WE ARE THERE!!!

Congrats, you lucky barstahds! I envy you all.

I hope Richard still comes up to TAM US, though... :(

[politas]

Australia, so I've invited him on the tour. and since I'm also planning on starting up Canberra Skeptics In The Pub in the new year, I've also invited him to do a show. Probably won't hear back from him for a few days at least.

About time we had a Skeptics in the Pub in Canberra! Count me in to help out with organising it. Been thinking about it myself, but didn't want to try to do it all by myself.

I've sent George links for a couple of other possible gigs (Folkus Room and Music at the Creek)

[politas]

Hi all. We expect something on SWIFT soon, but as you know the JREF have been busy with the news about the new President and so on. All is looking good for TAM Australia. We will not be selling tickets yet but will keep you posted.

I hope steps are being taken to avoid the TAM London-style ticket sellout? You don't have to tell what they are, but at least say that something is being done?

[softstuff]

And also will there be a bit of advance notice when they're going on? Either my husband or I need to book a day off to get the tickets!

[lionking]

If anyone's looking for the place, it's the huge concrete edifice on Goulburn street.

There's no building in Sydney that better fits the word "edifice". You'll see it.
Agree that it is extremely ugly, but there must be some deep mystic symbolism to it all.

[Obviousman]

If anyone's looking for the place, it's the huge concrete edifice on Goulburn street.

There's no building in Sydney that better fits the word "edifice". You'll see it.

Back in the late 80's, I used to live next door to it in Museum Towers. That marvelous concrete roof allowed me to conduct an experiment to prove or disprove that those rubber 'super balls' would bounce to 2/3rd of their drop height.

I lived on the 26th floor....

[Obviousman]

I hope steps are being taken to avoid the TAM London-style ticket sellout? You don't have to tell what they are, but at least say that something is being done?

I hope that we of the faithful will be allowed to 'pre-book' our tickets? I don't want to be away for a week and find out that things have sold out.

I don't mind a deposit reservation, either.

[lionking]

I hope that we of the faithful will be allowed to 'pre-book' our tickets? I don't want to be away for a week and find out that things have sold out.

I don't mind a deposit reservation, either.
I understand your point, but I seriously doubt the event will attract the attention of TAM London. I'll be amazed if it is sold out.

[politas]

I understand your point, but I seriously doubt the event will attract the attention of TAM London. I'll be amazed if it is sold out.

Well, surely that all depends on how many attendees they allow for. If they booked facilities for 50 people, then it'd sell out for sure.

[lionking]

Well, surely that all depends on how many attendees they allow for. If they booked facilities for 50 people, then it'd sell out for sure.
According to the Masonic Centre website, they can accomodate up to 1,000.

[SkepticScott]

...up to 1,000.Shiny! I hope I can make this; I'd love to sightsee and get in some ASL with a friend in Melbourne.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Shiny! I hope I can make this; I'd love to sightsee and get in some ASL with a friend in Melbourne.

You have to be there to organize the volunteers!

[SkepticScott]

LOL, Scrut, you're right. I guess I have no excuse now. I must go to Australia, a place I'd wanted to visit for several years. :D

[rjh01]

To all overseas attendees. Sydney is a great place to visit. Think about staying another week before or after TAM and enjoy the sights. There are some good art galleries, museums and other places of interest. I have stayed there a week and walked to most places. The only time we caught public transport was to go to the zoo.

You can also spend another week in Melbourne (though expect to use the trams and trains) or a few days in Canberra. The trams in Melbourne are one of the few places in the world where they are mostly used to transport workers, rather than tourists, so peak hours they are full.

[arthwollipot]

The only time we caught public transport was to go to the zoo.With one exception - catch the ferry at Circular Quay and go to Darling Harbour, Manly, or the zoo. The Sydney Harbour ferries are well worth catching.

[Chris H]

Canberra - the Australian capital of politics and porn. Melbourne's where it's at! If anyone is keen on a post TAM-OZ trip that has a little more class and sophistication, I can help you out. ;)

[arthwollipot]

Canberra is a natural stopping-off point between Sydney and Melbourne (after all, that's why it was built here), and takes only a couple of days.

[Chris H]

Canberra is a natural stopping-off point between Sydney and Melbourne (after all, that's why it was built here), and takes only a couple of days.


Just a friendly bit of interstate rivalry. ;)

[Floyt]

Whoop-di-DOOOH! I'll finally get to go to a TAM! Oh frabjous day!

[politas]

Canberra - the Australian capital of politics and porn. Melbourne's where it's at! If anyone is keen on a post TAM-OZ trip that has a little more class and sophistication, I can help you out. ;)

Yep, Canberra. Completely classless and unsophisticated. There's nothing classy or sophisticated at the National Gallery (http://nga.gov.au/Home/Default.cfm), the Australian War Memorial (http://www.awm.gov.au/), the National Portrait Gallery (http://www.portrait.gov.au/), the National Library (http://www.nla.gov.au/) or the National Museum (http://www.nma.gov.au/index.html), no. They're all very lowbrow and pandering to the basest of tastes.

[Chris H]

Yep, Canberra. Completely classless and unsophisticated. There's nothing classy or sophisticated at the National Gallery (http://nga.gov.au/Home/Default.cfm), the Australian War Memorial (http://www.awm.gov.au/), the National Portrait Gallery (http://www.portrait.gov.au/), the National Library (http://www.nla.gov.au/) or the National Museum (http://www.nma.gov.au/index.html), no. They're all very lowbrow and pandering to the basest of tastes.

Hehehe!! Fair point.

But look at it like this...

"Hey honey, where should we go on our holiday this year?"
"Hmmm...I'm not sure. You know what might be fun? Let's got to the place where ALL the politicians are!"

Just teasing folks. I've not been to Canberra, but I have heard good things. However I'm a particularly patriotic Melbournian.

Just got the latest copy of the Australian 'Skeptic' magazine in the mail. Attached is the back cover.

[politas]

But look at it like this...

"Hey honey, where should we go on our holiday this year?"
"Hmmm...I'm not sure. You know what might be fun? Let's got to the place where ALL the politicians are!"Well, if you ignore the fact that parliament only sits for 68 days out of the year, and most of the politicians go home the rest of the time. If you include state politicians, there are usually far more politicians in Sydney or Melbourne than in Canberra at any given time.

Canberra is just where the national politicians gather some of the time. The rest of the time, it's just us Canberrans (and there are not very many local politicians; Canberra is severely under-represented in Parliament, and we have a very small territory local government.)

I realise that you're just poking fun, but it's an image of Canberra that really bugs me. What Canberra has a lot of is public servants. We poor, suffering, underpaid workers struggling to meet the fickle demands of government and provide the services the people of the nation expect.

[arthwollipot]

Yes - have a thought for the shiny bums!

:D

[SkepticScott]

Just got the latest copy of the Australian 'Skeptic' magazine in the mail. Attached is the back cover.Shiny! Almost a year to save up the money and vacation time. :D

[wafonso]

I realise that you're just poking fun, but it's an image of Canberra that really bugs me. What Canberra has a lot of is public servants. We poor, suffering, underpaid workers struggling to meet the fickle demands of government and provide the services the people of the nation expect.

I've been to Canberra twice, and managed not to see any politicians. And I did visit Parliament! (granted, both times were over Christmas holidays)

The image I have of Canberra now, to be honest, is of a very large park with a few buildings here and there and a small city centre on the other side of the lake. That pretty much describes the whole area that includes the old and new Parliaments, the National Gallery, the High Court, the science museum etc.

One suggestion of a good place to visit outside that area is the space centre in Tidbinbilla. Oh, and Mt Stromlo.

[arthwollipot]

One suggestion of a good place to visit outside that area is the space centre in Tidbinbilla. Oh, and Mt Stromlo.The Mount Stromlo Observatory still has the remains of the Great Melbourne telescope - once the largest optical telescope in the southern hemisphere, now a sad twisted hunk of metal after the 2003 bushfires.

[Damien Evans]

With one exception - catch the ferry at Circular Quay and go to Darling Harbour, Manly, or the zoo. The Sydney Harbour ferries are well worth catching.

I second this.

As much as I love Melbourne we have nothing that compares with the harbour ferries.

[wafonso]

The Mount Stromlo Observatory still has the remains of the Great Melbourne telescope - once the largest optical telescope in the southern hemisphere, now a sad twisted hunk of metal after the 2003 bushfires.

The remains of the telescope itself were disassembled late last year and moved back to Melbourne, where Museum Victoria has a restoration project in progress. I understand remains of the dome are still on the mount, though.

[arthwollipot]

The remains of the telescope itself were disassembled late last year and moved back to Melbourne, where Museum Victoria has a restoration project in progress. I understand remains of the dome are still on the mount, though.Oh. My mistake. The last time I was up there was, I think, mid-last year. So I must have missed it.

[Esseth]

I can't wait, seems like people that are excited about this event are hard to find... maybe you just have to look in the right places.

When i heard about it on skeptics guide, i was very much "OMG Serious???" so i searched everywhere to show my support, but apart from skeptics australia i couldn't fin anything mentioned. Forced my hand to create the facebook group myself...

But i will be counting the days.

[arthwollipot]

It's on the Australian Skeptics website: http://www.skeptics.com.au/

And I was pretty sure there was already a Facebook group, but I could be wrong about that.

[lionking]

I can't wait, seems like people that are excited about this event are hard to find... maybe you just have to look in the right places.

When i heard about it on skeptics guide, i was very much "OMG Serious???" so i searched everywhere to show my support, but apart from skeptics australia i couldn't fin anything mentioned. Forced my hand to create the facebook group myself...

But i will be counting the days.
Welcome Esseth, and see you at TAM Australia.

[arthwollipot]

Is DJ Grothe going to be coming?

[Orphia Nay]

Is DJ Grothe going to be coming?

;) :D

[Esseth]

So any ideas as to who else will be attending speaking... I'd kill for Penn & Teller to show, they are the guys that first introduced me to the Skeptics way of thinking. I already agreed with them, but i didn't know there was such a movement :D

Ohh and Dr Micho Kaku would be a part of the dream list, that would be so awesome.

[lionking]

So any ideas as to who else will be attending speaking... I'd kill for Penn & Teller to show, they are the guys that first introduced me to the Skeptics way of thinking. I already agreed with them, but i didn't know there was such a movement :D

Ohh and Dr Micho Kaku would be a part of the dream list, that would be so awesome.

Bloody hell, we'll all be there. Who else do you need? :D

[Brainache]

Well, this looks like it could be interesting.

How much does it cost for a ticket to TAM?

[Esseth]

I'd gladly sell my soul for a ticket... do you think they would accept it? lol

I would pay any price, but ill keep that on the downlow otherwise they might go crazy. But i will not be missing it :D

[Akhenaten]

A Briswegian! Isn't there a quota on them here?


Hi Esseth!

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/209954b06e8b167056.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=18240)

[enjoytheview]

First I've heard about this, but I'm definitely excited already :)
The event starts on what is the last day of our uni exams though, so that may be a problem..

[The Central Scrutinizer]

First I've heard about this, but I'm definitely excited already :)
The event starts on what is the last day of our uni exams though, so that may be a problem..

Skip them

[SkepticScott]

The event starts on what is the last day of our uni exams though, so that may be a problem..Don't skip the exams, beg your professors to let you take them early. Grovel as necessary. Alternatively, only take courses that have their exams early, before 26 November. You've got 11 months to plot and plan -- use them wisely! :)

[Wowbagger]

Or hire a clone to take the exams for you.

[enjoytheview]

Don't skip the exams, beg your professors to let you take them early. Grovel as necessary. Alternatively, only take courses that have their exams early, before 26 November. You've got 11 months to plot and plan -- use them wisely! :)

We have a 3 week exam period that ends on that day, and I have 3 exams total.. All I have to do is hope to hell that I don't get an exam scheduled on that last day and I should be fine.
Exam timetables are released in October, so picking subjects with early exams isn't an option.

Of course, should I have an exam on the last day, I'm sure I can use my history of glandular fever to my advantage. I can ring in sick for that exam and take the exam in December instead.

[Esseth]

Well we have 325 days currently to work out all our leave/excuses/reasons for being away and plots.

What sucks for me is one of my good friends in Victoria is having a wedding in early November so i am making two flights in Novemeber now. I was crossing my fingers that the wedding was not set for TAM weekend lol

[Akhenaten]

Is your friend a sceptic? They could have the wedding at TAM.

That would seriously rock.

[Akhenaten]

Also, while I'm here, I have an agenda item for TAM.

How is Homo novaehollandiae supposed to spell 'sceptic'?

[arthwollipot]

Is your friend a sceptic? They could have the wedding at TAM.

That would seriously rock.Naah. It's been done.

[rjh01]

The forum then gave the bride an unwanted present. They banned her for a reason they have never used before or since.

[arthwollipot]

That was looong before the wedding.

[lionking]

They banned her for a reason they have never used before or since.

Articulett? She was suspended numerous times, was placed on probation and still breached the MA. Reason enough for me.

[arthwollipot]

Articulett? She was suspended numerous times, was placed on probation and still breached the MA. Reason enough for me.I thought Rebecca was the one being referred to. And Rebecca's banning was... well, pretty much cut-and-dried.

[lionking]

Sorry, my mistake. Yes Rebecca's banning was clear, but very sad.

[Damien Evans]

Sorry, my mistake. Yes Rebecca's banning was clear, but very sad.

And, at the same time, very funny.

[Akhenaten]

error - post deleted by Akky.

[Sc00ter]

I have a logistics question.

How is Wifi in the area? Is free wifi available?

What about cell phones? I'm pretty sure that my Verizon CDMA phone won't work from what I've read. What's a cheap way to get twitter access? I found a few places that rent blackberries but the data charges seem high.

[Damien Evans]

I have a logistics question.

How is Wifi in the area? Is free wifi available?

What about cell phones? I'm pretty sure that my Verizon CDMA phone won't work from what I've read. What's a cheap way to get twitter access? I found a few places that rent blackberries but the data charges seem high.

As long as you can stomach McDonalds, yes. They have free WiFi everywhere.

[Sc00ter]

As long as you can stomach McDonalds, yes. They have free WiFi everywhere.

I live off french fries, so it shouldn't be a problem :)

[Akhenaten]

I have a logistics question.

How is Wifi in the area?





Variable. Some are a little cranky if the kids have been playing up, but most of them are good sorts. Try and marry them in their late twenties.


Is free wifi available?





Ooh my wordy, lordy no. Incredibly expensive.


What about cell phones?





"Singin' toorali-toorali-Blackberry,
Such is what we poor convicts go through."

Phones are at the Guv'nors discretion, however.


I'm pretty sure that my Verizon CDMA phone won't work from what I've read.





If you have your own soup can, you should be able to log on to the String Network while you're here.


What's a cheap way to get twitter access?





I use sunflower seeds mostly, for the Rosellas, and the finches prefer the smaller seeds, such as millet.


I found a few places that rent blackberries but the data charges seem high.





They grow beside the road in most places. The fruit is just forming in my area now, and they're free. Most of our dates are imported, so you'll have to get them from Coles probably.


Hope this helps.

[SkepticScott]

What about renting or buying a cheap, pre-paid mobile when I arrive? I plan to spend a few days sightseeing and don't want to be limited to free WiFi and Skype.

[Sc00ter]

What about renting or buying a cheap, pre-paid mobile when I arrive? I plan to spend a few days sightseeing and don't want to be limited to free WiFi and Skype.

I was thinking of doing the same, but I'd really like something with a data plan for Twitter. After TAM7 (with Twitter) and NECSS (without Twitter) I can say that having Twitter is a huge advantage to find out what's going on and where people are meeting.

[SkepticScott]

I'm thrilled to have to worry about such problems. I've wanted to visit Australia for several years, and now I have a reason!

[Akhenaten]

Linky to Telstra Prepaid Mobile stuff. (http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/prepaid/getrewarded.html?s_kwcid=TC|6014|telstra%20prepaid %20mobile||S||3505528870)

[Sc00ter]

Linky to Telstra Prepaid Mobile stuff. (http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/prepaid/getrewarded.html?s_kwcid=TC|6014|telstra%20prepaid %20mobile||S||3505528870)


Seems hard to get a BB or phone with data/keyboard that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I found one place that does BB rentals for $50/week.

[Sc00ter]

I emailed Verizon and they just called me back. They said they can rent me a phone. I'm at work but once I get info on prices I'll be sure to post for those interested.

[rjh01]

Bring the phone you have now. Just ensure it is not locked to any network. When in Australia buy a SIM card.

Ref. http://www.telstra.com.au/shop/Consumer/NGTSOProductDetailsView?catalogId=10101&storeId=10001&productId=41270&langId=-1&categoryId=16105&parent_category_rn=16105&top_category=

[Obviousman]

And you should be able to get hi-speed WiFi in the city but don't count on it outside of Sydney. I'm only 120 Km south of Sydney, in a major regional centre and am limited to 512k.

[Damien Evans]

Linky to Telstra Prepaid Mobile stuff. (http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/prepaid/getrewarded.html?s_kwcid=TC|6014|telstra%20prepaid %20mobile||S||3505528870)

For reference, this will be twice what anyone other than Optus will try and charge you. Telstra are professional rip-off artists.

ETA: For example, my home internet is with Netspace. I get 50 gigs of adsl 2 at up to 20,000 kbps, then slowed if I go over my limit. This costs 40 dollars a month. The same plan with Telstra costs 120 dollars a month.

[lionking]

Just make sure you OS buggers don't get tickets before us locals. I wonder whether Aussie Skeptics members will get first go? I was a member, but not at the moment. I might re-join just in case.

[rjh01]

No, give all overseas people first go. Australia could do with the foreign exchange. Remember the job of every Australian is to extract all the money they can from any foreign visiter. The foreign visiter must be happy to give the money away.

[lionking]

Perhaps you're right rjh01. I wonder if the pubs will put up the price of beer when TAM Australia happens, like they did with the Olympic Games?

[rjh01]

The Olympic games were a big event. TAM is only Mickey mouse. So I doubt anything that the locals buy will go up in price because of this.

[lionking]

The Olympic games were a big event. TAM is only Mickey mouse. So I doubt anything that the locals buy will go up in price because of this.
Trust me not to put the sarcasm smilie at the end. I thought it was obvious. And should have realised (this is not a criticism) that you do take a lot of things literally.

[Obviousman]

Although I am looking forward to it greatly, TAM is but a small blip on the Sydney radar.

[rjh01]

Trust me not to put the sarcasm smilie at the end. I thought it was obvious. And should have realised (this is not a criticism) that you do take a lot of things literally.

True, but who cares? Apart from me of course. At least I am predictable.

[Sc00ter]

Bring the phone you have now. Just ensure it is not locked to any network. When in Australia buy a SIM card.

Ref. http://www.telstra.com.au/shop/Consumer/NGTSOProductDetailsView?catalogId=10101&storeId=10001&productId=41270&langId=-1&categoryId=16105&parent_category_rn=16105&top_category=

Verizon is CDMA and doesn't use SIM cards, because they're stupid... But, for me they have the best coverage so I'm kind of stuck with them.

[Damien Evans]

Verizon is CDMA and doesn't use SIM cards, because they're stupid... But, for me they have the best coverage so I'm kind of stuck with them.

What are you willing to spend? You can get a cheap prepaid mobile for 60-70 bucks.

[Sc00ter]

What are you willing to spend? You can get a cheap prepaid mobile for 60-70 bucks.

I'm looking for something that can do twitter (a real data plan would be best) and has a full keyboard. Renting a phone is a much cheaper option.

[Akhenaten]

I saw an ad in a catalogue yesterday for a prepaid Wifi dongle from Optus. Are you bringing your lappy?

I'll see if I can find the ad online and post a link.


ETA: I can't find the Optus one, but this is a similar Telstra deal. It's more expensive than I thought, but I hope it gives you an idea of what's available.

The catalogue was a Flash thingy, so I just snipped the appropriate bit.


http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Ad.jpg

I don't do prepaid stuff myself, so I hope some peeps that do will post some other deals.

[SkepticScott]

What are you willing to spend? You can get a cheap prepaid mobile for 60-70 bucks.I'm Verizon, SIMless CDMA too, but that sounds like something that would meet my needs. I'd guess that some smart Australian sells them in a kiosk right outside Customs.

Re: Foreign currency. I will be happy to spend my money as I sightsee in Melbourna, Canberra and Sydney! $:)$

[Akhenaten]

I'm Verizon, SIMless CDMA too, but that sounds like something that would meet my needs. I'd guess that some smart Australian sells them in a kiosk right outside Customs.

Re: Foreign currency. I will be happy to spend my money as I sightsee in Melbourna, Canberra and Sydney! $:)$





You're right about shops/kiosks right outside customs (up one floor), but I wouldn't buy anything at an airport. Prices start at double-normal and proceed to extortion in no time at all.

[Damien Evans]

You're right about shops/kiosks right outside customs (up one floor), but I wouldn't buy anything at an airport. Prices start at double-normal and proceed to extortion in no time at all.

Except, for some reason, book shops. They're not so bad.

[Akhenaten]

Except, for some reason, book shops. They're not so bad.





Yeah, good point and thanks. As a matter of fact, I buy almost all my paperbacks at the airport.

[SkepticScott]

I wouldn't buy anything at an airport.Thanks for the tip. It's the same here in the U.S.; I'm first going to see a friend in Melbourne, and I'll find a spot away from the airport where I can rent a cell phone for two weeks.

[Akhenaten]

Thanks for the tip. It's the same here in the U.S.; I'm first going to see a friend in Melbourne, and I'll find a spot away from the airport where I can rent a cell phone for two weeks.





If you're coming to Melbourne I can lend you a basic phone for as long as you like. All you need to get is a SIMM card.

[SkepticScott]

Thanks, Akhenaten, but I think I'll be OK. My friend in Melbourne might loan me a spare.

[Sc00ter]

Thanks for the tips guys. I may do that USB dongle thing, but turns out my wife will be able to go for the entire two weeks and her BB Storm will work there, so I may just use that. We'll see.

[Esseth]

Has JREF announced TAM Aus yet? i know Skeptics Australia have and it was on several podcasts, but i still never read an official JREF saying it was confirmed. I know they have been busy with alot going down or maybe i missed it?

Further i will be staying somewhere close to the masonic centre with at least 4stars (when i get time off work i make it worthwhile) but as many people that can fit are welcome to crash. I offered a number of people the same offer with a Muse gig a few years back and we fit 8 people in a "one bedroom" apartment with more than enough space to spare.

[arthwollipot]

I haven't seen it come up on the SWIFT blog, but several people associated with the JREF including Phil, Jeff and DJ have talked about it on podcasts and so on.

[rjh01]

I think they have overlooked the announcement. See this SWIFT
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/823-happy-new-year-from-the-president.html

4. We are going to expand our conference offerings: Not only will we continue TAM in Vegas, which has been growing steadily year after year, but we will continue to sponsor Amazing Meetings in London, a new TAM in Australia, and we have just begun planning for a TAM in Europe for 2011. Add to that The Amazing Meetings at sea on the cruise ships, and the regional events mentioned above, and you'll see our renewed commitment to reaching out to new people and to resourcing the growing grassroots skeptics movement.

Bolding mine.

[lionking]

TAM Australia may put out an accommodation package, but if anyone's looking for a good value, four star hotel a very short walk from the Masonic Centre, check out the Vibe Hotel. It's about $150 a night and a very cool hotel. I stay there sometimes when in Sydney.

[arthwollipot]

Thanks for the tip, lionking. I may well be in the market for accomodation.

[Obviousman]

BTW - if we have any serving military members (active or reserve) attending TAM I can arrange for accommodation in military messes. PM me for more information.

[Chris H]

I'm keen to hear more about this. I know it's still a good 8 months away, but I'm starting to find cheap flights and accommodation deals that I'd like to book. Wanna do TAM Oz as cheaply as possible, particularly after spending a fortune on my trip to TAM 8. Anyone else heard any news?

Whilst I'm at it, V Australia have got some super hot deals to get to Sydney from the states for around TAM Oz time. I just found $1205 return from LA, arriving a few days before the conference, and departing a couple of days after. From what I understand, that's super cheap!

Cheers,

Chris

[Chris H]

I hope Richard Saunders doesn't mind me sharing a tweet he sent me this afternoon.

@chrisfhiggins Tickets for TAM Aust not on sale for a few months. Sorry cannot be more help just yet.

[Chris H]

I've just booked my flights for TAM Australia. $65 each way, Melbourne to Sydney. Virgin Blue have got a sale on at the moment that includes the weekend of the conference. Sure it may only save you $70 or so, but when you convert that into beer dollars... ;)

Suggest anyone who wants to go look at flights now. The sale has only just started and there's plenty of availability, but I don't expect that will last long.

Cheers,

Chris

[Chris H]

...and because I'm such a sweetheart.

Adelaide to Sydney - $79 each way

Brisbane to Sydney - $69 each way

Perth to Sydney - $199 each way

Hobart to Sydney - $79 - $99 each way

The dates I put in were heading to Sydney on Thursday the 25th of November, and heading home on Monday the 29th of November. The availability on these flights is significantly less than the Melbourne to Sydney ones, so I'd suggest you get in quick if you're happy with the price and are keen to go.

[arthwollipot]

G'donya Chris. Good work.

[Chris H]

G'donya Chris. Good work.


Aaaaaaah! How could I forget?

Canberra to Sydney - $59 each way

;)

[enjoytheview]

I'll probably have to pay a little more for flights than I'd like. The first day of TAM is the last day of our exams, so I have to wait until we get the exam timetable before I can book the flight there.

Might start organising the flight home now though

[arthwollipot]

Aaaaaaah! How could I forget?

Canberra to Sydney - $59 each way

;)Or a three-hour drive.

[Akhenaten]

Or a three-hour drive.





PM me. I know secret short-cut. 2 hours.


Requirements:

1. Nerves of steel.

2. Monies for fines.

[rjh01]

Pay $A15-25 for a coach ride each way between Canberra and Sydney.
Ref http://www.greyhound.com.au/

The advantages of this over a plane ride.
1. Turn up 20 minutes before the coach leaves and you are on time.
2. Coaches go from one city centre to the other city centre. Or to Sydney airport.
3. No metal detectors or other security measures to worry about.
4. You can play with your iPod, computer and other electronic device from the time you board to the time you leave the coach.
5. Better views from bigger windows.
6. You either get a window seat or an aisle seat.

[Chris H]

Or a three-hour drive.


I figured you would drive, but I didn't want anyone to feel left out. :)

[lionking]

Pay $A15-25 for a coach ride each way between Canberra and Sydney.
Ref http://www.greyhound.com.au/

The advantages of this over a plane ride.
1. Turn up 20 minutes before the coach leaves and you are on time.
2. Coaches go from one city centre to the other city centre. Or to Sydney airport.
3. No metal detectors or other security measures to worry about.
4. You can play with your iPod, computer and other electronic device from the time you board to the time you leave the coach.
5. Better views from bigger windows.
6. You either get a window seat or an aisle seat.
Ever been on a longish commuter bus ride rj? It truely sucks. Air every time.

[enjoytheview]

Ever been on a longish commuter bus ride rj? It truely sucks. Air every time.

Agreed. A long commuter bus ride is the only thing worse than a long commuter train ride.

* enjoytheview tries desperately to repress memories of travelling on The Overland

[lionking]

Agreed. A long commuter bus ride is the only thing worse than a long commuter train ride.

* enjoytheview;5722941 tries desperately to repress memories of travelling on The Overland
Back in the day (the 1970s), air travel was for the rich. My girlfriend, now my wife of 37 years, was in Melbourne and I was in Sydney. 14 hour train trips and similar timed bus trips were my only option, until I made the smart move to Melbourne.

[Akhenaten]

Still, they aren't all bad . . .



http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/TheGhan.jpg
Doo, doo, doo, lookin' out my back gate . . .

[rjh01]

Please, it is only just over 3 hours between Canberra and Sydney. I have done it several times. It is not the same as a bus you get to work.

I have even done Canberra to Melbourne by coach. That was 10 hours.

[lionking]

Please, it is only just over 3 hours between Canberra and Sydney. I have done it several times. It is not the same as a bus you get to work.

I have even done Canberra to Melbourne by coach. That was 10 hours.
Three hours and 10 hours??? I won't argue, but for $10 or so dollars more, fly all the time.

[rjh01]

$69 - $15 = $54 difference each way, minimum. Plus extra to get to and from the airport.

It may be only 50 minutes flying time, however that does not include
1. The extra time it takes to get to the airport.
2. Extra time to check in.
3. Extra time waiting to board.
4. Extra time waiting for your suitcases
5. Extra time to get to your destination.

I have had a look at the qantas website. The cheapest flights are $95. So that makes the difference even more. However Virgin Blue do it for $59. That does not include the $10 for checked baggage, which I assume you will have, so that makes it $69. You cannot cancel or change the flight details.

[Akhenaten]

Yer all wrong . . .



http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/GayRodeoBlimp.jpg

[lionking]

Tickets available in June according to the Aussie Skeptics website.

[enjoytheview]

Sweet. Gives me plenty of time to save up :)

[sadluxation]

Looks like the website has gone live. But only JREF & Australian Skeptics can order early-bird tickets.
http://tam.asnevents.com.au/

[arthwollipot]

The cost of a subscription to The Skeptic magazine is extremely reasonable.

[lionking]

The cost of a subscription to The Skeptic magazine is extremely reasonable.
Agreed. I've just renewed mine. The cost of TAM though is not that reasonable.

[Sc00ter]

Agreed. I've just renewed mine. The cost of TAM though is not that reasonable.

Why do you say that? I'm honestly curious. What price range did you expect? They said a number of times that it would be around the cost of other TAMs and it is. But seriously, what makes the price unreasonable.

[arthwollipot]

I'd just like to mention that public liability insurance is VERY expensive, and ABSOLUTELY necessary for an event like this. And we're unlikely to get the 2,500 people that were at the Global Atheist Convention.

[lionking]

Why do you say that? I'm honestly curious. What price range did you expect? They said a number of times that it would be around the cost of other TAMs and it is. But seriously, what makes the price unreasonable.
I go to a lot of conferences which include overseas presenters. And yes, they are around the same price, but they aim to make a decent profit. I've also organised conferences in Australia. I know the cost of venues in Sydney. JREF will make a serious profit out of this in my opinion. I would be happy to be proven wrong.

[Sideroxylon]

I go to a lot of conferences which include overseas presenters. And yes, they are around the same price, but they aim to make a decent profit. I've also organised conferences in Australia. I know the cost of venues in Sydney. JREF will make a serious profit out of this in my opinion. I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Is there anything wrong with the foundation using the event to fund raise?

[lionking]

Is there anything wrong with the foundation using the event to fund raise?
Depends.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Agreed. I've just renewed mine. The cost of TAM though is not that reasonable.

Compared to what?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Depends.

On what?

[Sideroxylon]

Depends.

On if it is going towards hookers and blow or operational expenses and other projects?

[arthwollipot]

Like third party indemnity, for example?

[Sc00ter]

You know, I would rather have a higher up front cost that went to the organizers of the event (meaning the organization, not the people) than to offset that cost with sponsors that are just going to push products on us during the conference.

[xinit]

You know, I would rather have a higher up front cost that went to the organizers of the event (meaning the organization, not the people) than to offset that cost with sponsors that are just going to push products on us during the conference.

Hang on, though... what if we were to accept sponsorship money from Homeopaths and Chiropractors... I'd be okay with attending the "Science Based Medicine workshop sponsored by Mercola"

I mean, we can be pretty sure that sort of sponsorship would be safe from influencing attendees, and would have a pretty high cost...

[SkepticScott]

I mean, we can be pretty sure that sort of sponsorship would be safe from influencing attendeesIt could also double as the entertainment, since I'm sure they'd have us ROTFLing at some point.:D

[xinit]

It could also double as the entertainment, since I'm sure they'd have us ROTFLing at some point.:D

Though, considering the hand-wringing and drams that occurred when JREF announced CFI involvement with TAM8 (and they're like-minded). Twitter and blog posts of drama would go off the charts.

[Chris H]

I've already booked flights, and I am going to TAM Australia (provided I can get a ticket). However I would agree that the costs for a non student are quite high. In addition, and with all due respect to those involved, the line up is not particularly spectacular. When I look at the TAM London line up, so many unique names jump out for me personally (Andy Nyman, Tim Minchin, Stephen Fry, Richard Wiseman) and I'm really disappointed that I can't be there. However the list of TAM Australia's speakers isn't nearly as fresh and exciting. It seems like it includes a couple of TAM Vegas regulars (most of whom I expect I will see in Vegas next month) and a few locals thrown in as filler. Anyone else a bit bummed about the line up?

[Sc00ter]

I've already booked flights, and I am going to TAM Australia (provided I can get a ticket). However I would agree that the costs for a non student are quite high. In addition, and with all due respect to those involved, the line up is not particularly spectacular. When I look at the TAM London line up, so many unique names jump out for me personally (Andy Nyman, Tim Minchin, Stephen Fry, Richard Wiseman) and I'm really disappointed that I can't be there. However the list of TAM Australia's speakers isn't nearly as fresh and exciting. It seems like it includes a couple of TAM Vegas regulars (most of whom I expect I will see in Vegas next month) and a few locals thrown in as filler. Anyone else a bit bummed about the line up?

Tim Minchin is an extra paid event for TAMLondon, and Stephen Fry is not confirmed.

[Geek Goddess]

I go to a lot of conferences which include overseas presenters. And yes, they are around the same price, but they aim to make a decent profit. I've also organised conferences in Australia. I know the cost of venues in Sydney. JREF will make a serious profit out of this in my opinion. I would be happy to be proven wrong.

"Profit" is not usually a word that applies towards charities or educational groups. The money made isn't paid to shareholders, as is the case with a corporation, it's used to fund the activities of the organization. TAM Vegas is currently the primary fund-raising activity of the JREF. It doesn't have thousands of dues-paying members, it sells only a few books from its online store. It doesn't have a magazine with ad placement to sell. There are a few paid staff members - Randi, DJ, Jeff, Bart, and some part time or intern positions. They have a very small office in Fort Lauderdale. They put out a quarterly small newsletter for paid members, they administer the challenger (a great deal of paperwork goes on). And so on.

The JREF is trying to expand its outreach and resources to schools, and that takes money. TAM isn't just outreach, it is also funding raising. Why do you wish to be proven wrong - it is a legitimate thing to have fund raising activities. It's not any different that NPR or PBS providing programming, over the air, that people can and do listen to for free, and still needing a way to come up with funding to do those things. As DJ has mentioned, in order to expand, you need to raise funds. Printers won't work for free, and you can't send materials to people without printing them.

I, too, go to conferences that make money, although none of them are 'for profit' but are also fund-raising for the particular organizations. All of them have a place where vendors can rent booths to sell or advertise their products, and some of the participating companies will 'donate' a coffee center or something similar, to take the burden of the cost off of the organization. IIRC, the Vegas hotels charged something like $5 per person per day to supply unlimited coffee. Over three days, that would be an additional $15 per person. It adds up.

I looked up some statistics for DragonCon. They charge $100 per person for four days, but they have over 30,000 people attend, with 1500 unpaid volunteers. Sheer numbers means they have much more money to work with, even at a lower per-person fee. It's a fundamental of scale. If you want to sell stuff, you have to pay to have a booth. And so on. And DC is for-profit. At TAM Vegas, a few people have tables to sell books. At TAM UK, I don't believe there were any tables with stuff for sale, at all. All the money to cover the costs, and return something to JREF for fund-raising, was strictly through the ticket sales.

I don't know how many people are expected to attend TAM Oz, but do the math - how much money should the JREF be 'allowed' to earn for a primary fundraising event? $200K? $100K $50K? Did you have a number in mind?

[Chris H]

Tim Minchin is an extra paid event for TAMLondon, and Stephen Fry is not confirmed.


I know. But there certainly seems to have been a lot more effort put in to recruiting a more diverse and exciting list of speakers for the London event than for the Australian one.

[Sc00ter]

I don't know how many people are expected to attend TAM Oz, but do the math - how much money should the JREF be 'allowed' to earn for a primary fundraising event? $200K? $100K $50K? Did you have a number in mind?

The main room for TAMOz holds 600 (http://www.smcfc.com.au/grand-lodge/). The link shows the cost of the room too.

[Sc00ter]

I know. But there certainly seems to have been a lot more effort put in to recruiting a more diverse and exciting list of speakers for the London event than for the Australian one.

Honestly, there were a lot of people from the UK on their list, and I think it's easier (both money and time wise) to get people to the UK than to Australia. They're also getting more people.

[Sc00ter]

I know. But there certainly seems to have been a lot more effort put in to recruiting a more diverse and exciting list of speakers for the London event than for the Australian one.

Oh, also, I think it's a bit iffy to be advertising a big name like Stephen Fry when he's not confirmed and may not even be there.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I don't know how many people are expected to attend TAM Oz, but do the math - how much money should the JREF be 'allowed' to earn for a primary fundraising event? $200K? $100K $50K? Did you have a number in mind?

They never do. I run into this a lot when people complain that something costs too much. You ask, "well, what is the 'correct' price", and they either don't know, or name some price, but can't explain what makes it "correct". Same thing for athlete salaries.

[Chris H]

Honestly, there were a lot of people from the UK on their list, and I think it's easier (both money and time wise) to get people to the UK than to Australia. They're also getting more people.


Oh, also, I think it's a bit iffy to be advertising a big name like Stephen Fry when he's not confirmed and may not even be there.


Both good points, and I agree. I think the "famous" (for want of a better word) skeptical community in the UK is much larger than here in Oz. It's just a little disappointing that the list really only contains regular TAM speakers and people few of us have heard of. Never mind. More time to spend in the bar. :)

[Wowbagger]

As TAM Australia's reputation grows, it will attract mroe and better speakers.

By the way, if Stephen Fry does not appear in person at TAM London, I think they will plan to have him in a video conference, at least.

[DocM]

Hm, there was a (in my opinion) rather thoughtful blog post about TAM London prices somewhere. Ah, found it:

http://www.skeptobot.com/2010/05/skeptical-look-at-tamlondon.html

It raises some interesting points, but, whether you agree with it or not, the author correctly states that TAMs are fund-raising events for the JREF. So they are entertainment events organised to provide funds for an organisation that promotes skepticism. The events themselves are mostly for people who already are skeptics. This could be done differently, but that is a discussion that has to take place within the JREF.

I personally can live with the price, but I'm aware that for many people TAM is a luxury they cannot afford. So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.

[lionking]

So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.

This was my point as well, and it's interesting to observe the hostility it has generated. Some people will not turn up because of the cost.

Has anyone considered that many organisations, when moving into a new area, don't even look at making a profit (or surplus if "profit" makes people feel squeamish)? That attracting people to the cause is more important than raising funds?

[DocM]

It's a perfectly valid discussion. It's just that I think that it is a discussion the JREF has to have; as a non-member it's not my place to expect, much less demand that they change something that has worked out well so far.

[Ziggy66]

I'll start worrying about JREF "profits" when they start drilling off the coast of Fort Lauderdale!

[SkepticScott]

So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.A quick, disjointed post of many subjects:
The JREF is running two workshops that are free for JREF members and only $45 for others. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/984-register-now-for-jref-workshops-in-louisville-and-chicago.html IIRC, there were monthly get-togethers at the Foundation, free and open to the public. GG is right, TAM is a major source of the JREF's operating funds. I'd love to see the price go down yet JREF still get the same amount from TAM, but I don't see how it could happen without a corporate sponsor. BTW, for comparison, doesn't it cost $6,000 to attend TED?
(Full disclosure: I donate annually to the JREF, volunteer to coordinate the volunteers at TAM, and pay the full price to attend TAM. Last year the JREF paid for my meals at 'working dinners', mainly in the Coronado Cafe, after TAM each day.)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I personally can live with the price, but I'm aware that for many people TAM is a luxury they cannot afford.

BMW's are also a luxury many people cannot afford. Not everyone can afford everything. Life is funny that way.

So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.

I would say the latter.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

This was my point as well, and it's interesting to observe the hostility it has generated. Some people will not turn up because of the cost.

Some people will not buy BMW's because of the cost.

[lionking]

Some people will not buy BMW's because of the cost.
That's the best you can do? TAM=a BMW? Wow.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

That's the best you can do? TAM=a BMW? Wow.

No, but it's a valid comparison. Or do you whine about the prices of BMW's too?

[lionking]

Good. So now we have established that affordability of a BMW is a valid comparison to affordability of attending TAM.

Please tell me you aren't serious.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Good. So now we have established that affordability of a BMW is a valid comparison to affordability of attending TAM.

Please tell me you aren't serious.

Not everyone can afford everything. There are lot's of things in the world I can't afford, but I don't whine about it.

You can't seem to grasp the comparison. Please tell me you aren't serious.

[lionking]

I'll probably be going, but I can't afford a BMW.

Questioning the cost of something is whining? Well so be it. The knee jerk reaction of some to any questioning of JREF is really astounding.

[Geek Goddess]

I personally can live with the price, but I'm aware that for many people TAM is a luxury they cannot afford. So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.

Just listening to the guys that actually work at the JREF, such as DJ and Bart, the JREF wants to make TAM bigger. It's gone from under 100 people at the first TAM (IIRC) to over 1000 at TAM7, and has expanded to include two other countries. They are up against a situation of finding places that are large enough to accomodate the people, at this point. How awesome would it be to have thousands of people attend every year??

Not every hotel can handle over 1000 people, and the ones that can are usually the more expense hotels that regularly host conventions. If the net back to JREF is, say, $100 per person, if they lowered the price by $50, would that make it more affordable?

The JREF also has the cruises that are very much fund-raising events. The travel agent that coordinates them said the last cruise (AA4, to the Caribbean) said they picked the cheapest cruise line there was for that one, to drive the cost down.

But they are also starting workshops (Register now for JREF Workshops in Louisville and Chicago.http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/984-register-now-for-jref-workshops-in-louisville-and-chicago.html) in various locations. They are free for JREF members and $45 for non-members. These must have some cost to the JREF - renting a location, transportation and meals for a speaker, and so on. The "profit" goes towards that, and as the JREF grows and has a larger financial basis to work with, these will grow in number.


Note - I don't work for the JREF, I'm not a spokesman for them, and I'm not privy to inside information. I am a businesswoman so have some general knowledge of what these things take and how businesses work - even not-for-profit businesses. However, the JREF and TAM has made a large impact on my sons and me, and I'm a supporter, both financially and vocally. They have problems, and I express my concerns, but overall I feel very positive about where the organization is headed.

[DocM]

I agree that it will probably not be possible to host a larger TAM at a 4-star hotel and lower the prices. A larger scale at a lower price would move it towards something more akin to a rock festival. :)

Maybe my comments were not clear enough: I do not advocate that. To be honest, I have no strong feelings in either direction, as I would attend anyway. I did assume that the people at JREF have their reasons for doing it the way that it's done, just as I understand why people criticise that. The JREF seems to try to move from a purely US-American towards a more international organisation, and that will take a lot of money and people. The TAMs will help with that. There have been some comments in Britain asking if the money wouldn't be better spend on British skeptical organisation, but that may be a rather shortsighted approach. The "TAM" label is able to draw the big names, and that will draw attention from the press, which will in turn help all the skeptics. The same should apply to Australia. I do think, though, that it would be a good idea to publish videos of the talks on the internet, as Bill on Skeptobot suggested.

[Wowbagger]

That's the best you can do? TAM=a BMW? Wow.
TAM is like the BMW of conferences. Sure, you can attend cheaper conferences, but TAM offers certain luxuries that they don't.

Of course, this only applies to TAMs I have attended. I can't vouch for those I have not.

(And, for the record, I don't buy BMWs. But, it has little to do with the cost. I am pretty sure I could probably afford one if I really wanted it. I just happen to be a "regular car" kind of guy.)

[Jin-oh Choi]

There was a bit discussion before the Atheist Convention in Melbourne earlier this year about the cost of attending that. But that also died down, a few weeks after it started.

I wasn't quite sure how I was going to save up to attend the Atheist Convention. But I made the decision to commit and use the credit card, then just save. (A decision I haven’t regretted.)

But I did just found out how I'm going to pay to attend. I just racked up 30+ hours of overtime for this weekend. I'm glad it's a long weekend. :)

[lionking]

Welcome Jin-oh Choi and hope to catch you at TAM downunder.

The earlybird rate to Aussie Skeptics of $A395 is not too bad on reflection.

[Jin-oh Choi]

Welcome Jin-oh Choi and hope to catch you at TAM downunder.

The earlybird rate to Aussie Skeptics of $A395 is not too bad on reflection.

Thanks, I've already booked my flights and accommodation so just need to wait for the tickets. :)

[arthwollipot]

Thanks, I've already booked my flights and accommodation so just need to wait for the tickets. :)Not long to go now!